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Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: HC1843 [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 13:36:48 05/02/02 Thu In reply to: Elihu Smails 's message, "Some People Don't Belong" on 18:13:52 04/29/02 Mon I'm sorry but I need something clarified. Is your statement indicative of a train of thought that Bucknell specifically, or any PL school for that matter, will be invited to join the Ivy League? If so, where did you get this idea from? The school(s) closest to receiving such an invite is (are) Colgate, Navy or Army, period. The latter two would never join, b/c there sports are too important to their tradition. Colgate would go in a heartbeat. I am not slighting Bucknell in any way, as you note I do not think HC, Laf, Leh would get an invite. Just not going to happen in this century. Cheers and I hope you guys announce for bball scholarships soon. This will force the rest of the league to go the scholarship route in bball. I think the HC-Bucknell rivalry will be one of the best in the league with both schools offering scholarships. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Dan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:45:55 05/02/02 Thu Agreed on all scores especially what could be a great rivalry. However, Colgate is far from getting the call if anyone did, that's absurd. They are still playing academic catch up with the rest of the schools in the League the way American is going to have too......Colgate not close..Hell, both of our schools are closer.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Polmolive [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:46:29 05/06/02 Mon USNEWS & WLD REPT., 2002 edition ranks Colgate#17 in academics with Bucknell being ranked #28, Holy Cross #32 and Lafayette #33 Appears that Colgate stands alone,when compared to the clustered 3. Lehigh - in a class by itself. Clearly the primeir inst. of the PAT. League.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:30:26 05/13/02 Mon Where are you getting your information? Only PL school comparable to Colgate in academics is Lehigh.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: HC1843 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:16:14 05/14/02 Tue "Only PL school comparable to Colgate in academics is Lehigh." What an absurd statement but if you believe it then its true at least to you. Cheers.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:05:51 05/14/02 Tue It's much less absurd than the comment by someone else here that Colgate was somewhere down around the level of American. The numbers and objective ratings speak for themselves.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: HC1843 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:15:43 05/15/02 Wed Well whoever made the American comparison was smoking something very strong. I'll give Colgate slightly higher SAT scores but not much else over other PL schools. I also don't agree that Lehigh is a step above HC, BU, Laf. The objective scores do not speak to this as a "fact". Furthermore, the biggest contributor to HC's decline in USNWR from my day (92-96/ranked 23rd) is the increased weighting put on faculty and financial resources, whose affect is vastly overstated. Cheers.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:11:02 05/15/02 Wed I think you guys don't get enough respect because BC is so close by. HC has always been the stronger school; yet BC seems to get some rub-off effect from its growing athletic relationship with ND.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Dan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:28:32 05/15/02 Wed U.S. News and World Report is objective? Whatever. Look, Colgate is fine school and worthy of Pl Membership but using U.S. News and World Report as your gauge is akin to saying someone is smarter based on their SAT score. Arbitrary.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: HC1843 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:04:51 05/15/02 Wed USNWR is not objective but it can not be discounted wholesale either. My point which I think you agree with is that apart from SAT scores, which are only marginally higher than other PL schools, Colgate is not in fact a step above the rest and this implies that Colgate's students are not inherently or matter of factly smarter. Looking at "student selectivity" Colgate is 22nd, HC 25th, Bucknell26th or 28th and Laf 33rd, pretty close if you ask me. Cheers.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Some People Don't Belong Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:26:53 05/13/02 Mon Right you are that we would join the Ivy in a heartbeat, as would anyone else from PL. Advantage Colgate has is that it has played more games against the Ivy League in all sports than any other school in PL, dating back to 1890.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Joining Ivy Author: El Guapo [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:05:39 06/17/02 Mon Ew. I expressly avoided the Ivies because they attract such a snotty group of social-climbing snobs. Please don't try to speak for Colgate as a whole when talking about joining the Ivy League. Can you say "status symbol", "grade inflation", "neglect undergraduates" and "overrated"? I don't really want to get into it but let's agree there's split opinion on the matter.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:17:18 06/17/02 Mon I'm not trying to speak for Colgate and I apologize if I gave that impression. The same debate has gone on for years and there is room for all opinions. Many Colgate Alumni (including many of my classmates) attended Colgate for just the reasons you outlined. It is my own belief, however, that Colgate would affiliate with the Ivy if the opportunity ever came. The lack of unanimity in the PL as to the aid issue, however, spells trouble for Colgate and the PL.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Dan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:30:23 06/20/02 Thu I still think it is presumed arrogance that you would ever get the invitation over say Lehigh or Bucknell based on a U.S. news and world report ranking.......

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:11:30 06/20/02 Thu This has nothing to do with USNWR survey, which in my opinion underrates all of the full PL members. It does have to do with the combination of a non-scholarship policy, academic compatibility, and the fact that Colgate has been a continuing opponent to many Ivy schools in many sports for over a century.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Dan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:14:35 06/21/02 Fri sure.....

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: El Guapo [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:47:57 06/23/02 Sun Lehigh is an engineering school. If they were to change leagues an alliance with RPI and Clarkson and WPI and maybe Carnegie Mellon would make most sense. Whereas Bucknell would be most likely to hook up with Syracuse and any other school willing to wear such a repulsive orange-and-blue combination :D Seriously, though, Colgate HAS been associated with the Ivy League schools since long before there was such a thing as an Ivy League. When I tell people in the North I went to Colgate they either haven't heard of it or think it IS in the Ivy League.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Go...'gate [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:54:13 06/23/02 Sun In the 30's and 40's, before the Ivy League, New York sportswriter Caswell Adams identified a dozen teams whom he considered to be the "Ivy Group" which ultimatly evolved into the Ivy League. Among the teams were Army, Navy, the present Ivies, Colgate and Rutgers.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Ram-Ray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:44:27 11/12/02 Tue Hey 'Gate, Here is more complete info on that story about where the Ivy League got it's name from Coswell Adams. Adams was asked on a RADIO PROGRAM if he felt Columbia, Harvard, Yale and Princeton could compete with powers such as Fordham, Nortre Dame and Pittsburg ( then, national powers). His response was "Oh, those schools are IV league, not on the same level of play". He said the Letters I V which sounded like "Ivy". As there were three divisions, Adams was saying they were a notch below. That is what happened. Funny how things change!

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Tim Carson [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:57:26 03/24/03 Mon Recently I heard that the Ivy League asked Lehigh University to become part of the league. Lehigh sports programs are capable of competing and the academics are rising. Is there any truth to what I heard?

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Ram-Ray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:49:11 11/12/02 Tue On may posts, including that of Towson's, I see negative references to the PL as the Ivy wanna bees, the Primadonna League, Snobs-r-us, etc. Now this whole moot line of argument pitts a false sense of smug superiority over one another. Colgate should be Ivy? No, Bucknell would be invited, No no! Lehigh and LC should be before Bucknell and Colgate....etc. ad nausium. There was even a line here about dropping Fordham next. News flash: the ancient eight don't want to make it the nifty nine or the terrific ten. Ask any of the Ivies and NONE of the PL members are good enough to join their little smug group. IMHO, the only PL member who can come close is the newest member,Georgetown and they would NEVER get this make-believe invitation becasue they are a(gasp!) Catholic-Jesuit school! (anyone here know of the media contraversy of what Columbia said at the Fordham-Columbia game?) Judging by this whole line of postings, perhaps the negative statements about the PL have merit. Perhaps the PL are snobbs after all. Did Towson belong?, no, they did not. They are a big commuter state school with no tradition and mediocre standards. But now we have people saying "My school's better than your school". What next? Better get rid of Fordham and American...just not like us. Oh! lets get rid of all those Jesuit schools! like HC and Georgetown! And while we are at it, Bucknell is on the SAT bubble..lets cut them. And then we can dump......... All I can say is, I hope no one from the PL administration sees this whole sorry posting. I was very glad when Fordham was invited to join in '88. The PL is a class league. Lets keep it that way.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: Tim Michels [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:45:45 03/24/03 Mon Recently I heard that the Ivy League was inviting Lehigh or Bucknell into the league. Both schools are challenging and ranked highly with US NEWS. What is your take on the situation? Is there any truth here?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy- Bucknell or Lehigh? Yeah, I think I read it in Mad Magazine Author: FC1841 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:19:39 04/09/03 Wed Lehigh or Bucknell joining the Ivy League? .

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy- Bucknell or Lehigh? Yeah, I think I read it in Mad Magazine Author: FC1841 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:20:43 04/09/03 Wed

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Joining Ivy Author: HCsader07 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:00:54 09/21/03 Sun keep dreaming, and it is a little pathetic that all you can talk about on your message boards is the ivy league. There is little need for the ivy league to expand, and I havent heard a real reason for the ivy presidents to want to invite leheigh, colgate, or bucknell. The PL is fine without them. To attract students on an ivy league level we need to dinstinguish ourselves as different from the ivy league, not as a lesser version of the same thing.

[> [> [> [> Subject: look at the appropriate USNWR list- national schools- where all the real Ivies are found Author: thebin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:44:48 10/27/02 Sun after all that USNWR rankings quoting- how did it escape you all that Gtown is the only school ranked in the national schools top 25- where ALL 8 IVIES are also to be found? THis seems highly relavant to me when talking about which PL school most resembles an Ivy. ALso, if you believe, as HC 1846 does, that financial resources are overdone in the rankings- then GU would probably be ranked about 14-18 range rather than in low twenties. In 1993, before endowment was weighed more heavily, GU was ranked at #17 in the nation right near Cornell and Brown.

[> [> [> Subject: USN&WR: ACTUAL rankings Author: Saderman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:15:36 06/09/03 Mon Here are the overall results for 2003 (USNA AND USMA are not included): National Colleges: #18 Colgate (plus 2 others) #26 Holy Cross #29 Bucknell and Lafayette National Universities: #24 Georgetown #40 Lehigh (plus 2 others) "Tier 2" (#52-#129) American and Fordham The 2004 rankings will be available in August.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: USN&WR: ACTUAL rankings Author: JoltinJoe [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:45:12 09/20/03 Sat Hey, US News did not numerically rank national universities beyond 50. After the top 50, the universities are listed alphabetically. That's why "American" was listed 52nd, and "Fordham" was listed 124th. As you were counting down to see where Fordham was listed, didn't you notice that, quite remarkably, the schools were "ranked" precisely in alphabetical order? What a coincidence!