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Subject: Re: Neutral Site Author: Ray [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 07:19:24 03/08/05 Tue In reply to: Jim 's message, "Neutral Site" on 07:03:29 03/07/05 Mon Dear Murray, The atmosphere last night was incredible. More OBU students than I've ever seen in the last few years. The OCU band made it over. It was loud. It was a great atmosphere. Why? Because it was at OBU? Yeah. Because of that. And because we had all year to plan for the tournament. We had all year to make sure we raised sponsors. All year to prepare a great program, lineup halftime events and make the SAC Tournament the show it is supposed to be. Now I'm sure in your perfect world that the University of Central Oklahoma would have done the same. Yes, I'm quite certain they have nothing else to do but prepare for the coming SAC Tournament. We don't do it like the Ohio Valley Conference. We didn't pick some gym that just wants our cash. So take your freakin' self-righteous claptrap and sell it on some other corner. Murray, nobody paid any attention to you because nobody cares any more. You aren't important enough for us to remember what you said a year ago, much less a half a decade ago. So, please, let us use the soapbox. We gotta hang another banner. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> Subject: Re: Neutral Site Author: SOJ [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:40:52 03/08/05 Tue Good points I hadn't thought of Ray. From a player's standpoint, I would have liked to not have to have spent a week in Lubbock for the tourney, but the bottom line is that when we entered a season, we all knew what the rules were; we all knew how to get a tourney bid; and if you couldn't win the SAC tourney that meant you should take care of business during the regular season. I wish I could have been there to see it last night. I knew I should have cut class. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Oh. Wow. Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:17:39 03/08/05 Tue Makes you wonder how we ever managed to put on a tournament back in the "old" days. I bet we never had any atmosphere for any of the games we had at neutral sites. I bet we never had almost 5,000 fans show up for any of those games. I bet it was thoroughly disorganized and just not any fun at all for players, coaches and spectators. And I guess the NCAA was completely wrong-headed when they decided a few years back not to let men's teams play NCAA tournament games on their home courts. Who said anything about having to have it at UCO? Why not have the semis and finals at SNU (men) and OBU (women) to ensure neutral courts? Oh, I forgot. It's all about the money now. (Gotta have that title sponsor, baby.) We've got to overprepare for something that we used to put together quite well in just a few days. You're such a hypocrite, Ray, because you'd be the one of the first ones screaming about unfairness if OBU had been the team getting the shaft. (I seem to remember a lot of whining going on when the tournament was in Lubbock.) It just goes to show that at OBU, it's all about winning. It's not about fairness for anybody else. Just as long as the Bison win, baby. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh. Wow. Author: SOJ [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:42:15 03/08/05 Tue Murray makes me laugh. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh. Wow. Author: Bison=Satan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:55:05 03/08/05 Tue Murray is right, and all you people that disagree just hate basketball and goodness. All OBU cares about is winning and worshipping the devil. I hear they paid off the SAC so they could get the tournament because they knew they were going to be down this season and would need to win it. I bet OBU pays off the officials in OC's tourney game too so Hays will get another first round loss. Doug Tolin hates babies and kittens. OBU students worship a golden bison that they spatter with blood twice a year. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh. Wow. Author: SOD [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:13:24 03/08/05 Tue Murr, The only whining coming from OBU when the tourney was in Lubbock was that we had to waste our time going to Lubbock because we already clinched KC. No one wants to drive 8 hours to play a couple of meaningless games, drink that nasty water and play in an empty gym. Yeah, OBU probably wouldn't have made it if they didn't host the SAC, but everyone cheered LCU on when they did the same thing. They were a 'cinderella' team. You just wanted to be able to say OBU failed on returning to KC. Why is everything so negative with you Murr? Maybe because there is a legit chance that after this horrible year Obaptist has had they might still go farther in KC than Dan the Man. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: You all are off the reservation Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:24:53 03/08/05 Tue I don't have a problem with OBU making the tournament. It says a lot that in a year in which OBU fans say the league is down, that five teams probably are going to go to KC. I'd love to see all five make the quarters. You see, I'm a true SAC fan, not just a fan of my alma mater. Also, for the record, I think Doug Tolin is a great coach. Never have thought anything less. Some of you might recall I picked him as the All-City coach of the year when he was at Norman. My argument, as always, is based on principle. Sixth seeds shouldn't host higher seeds in conference tournament games. Period. LCU shouldn't have, OCU shouldn't have, OBU shouldn't have. It basically renders the regular season meaningless. If that's what you want, fine, keep it the way it is. But if you believe in fairness, then you should agree with me. (Psst. If you do agree, it doesn't mean OBU doesn't get to go to KC.) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You all are off the reservation Author: SAC Fan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:38:23 03/08/05 Tue "It just goes to show that at OBU, it's all about winning. It's not about fairness for anybody else. Just as long as the Bison win, baby." "I don't have a problem with OBU..." [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Congrats Murr Author: SOD [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:41:35 03/08/05 Tue That is the first logically written, nonthreatening and positive post I have seen on this board from you in some time. I do have a couple thoughts for you to consider, if you have time to humor a far less intelligent visitor to this board. I don't care what you ever wrote about DT. I don't use your personal career as a gage for what you say on this board. You could be the food critic at the Edmond Sun for all I care. Your posts consistently show a disgust for the green and gold. That is great, but just come clean. I am not nearly as big an OBU fan as you like to assume, though I have followed them since I could walk. I am happy to see them in the tournament, but you will never catch me predicting a championship for them. You also will never see me post about how great they are. (I may say they are better than your team, but that is just because I get enjoyment out of cheering against you) The only personal bias from my Obaptist days you'll see from me is that I think we should have won a title, so we could shut John Parrish up about the gods of '66. I agree with you that the final two rounds should be played on a neutral court. Money is an issue though and I think it will be sometime before the SAC can afford to do that. It's not the District 9 with 1 bid anymore. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You all are off the reservation Author: ABeamofPureEnergy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:50:23 03/08/05 Tue Regular season meaningless? That is absurd! The regular season champion gets an automatic bid. Furthermore, if the conference tournament is not at your home floor, it is more important to put yourself in a position to get in before the tournament. Is it fair? No. But was it fair when OU had to play Syracuse in New York in the regional finals in 2003? What about when UCLA has to play Tulsa in Oklahoma City in the first round of the NCAA tournament in 1994? These things happen. Take care of business in the regular season when everything is fair and you still go to the national tournament. If you put yourself in the position where you have to win the conference tournament, you have no one to blame but yourself. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You all are off the reservation Author: Ray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:48:51 03/08/05 Tue What does it mean, this 'off the reservation' thing? Sounds slimey to me. But to the point. The regular season is what it is. We award a runner-up in the tournament because we hope that the No. 2 and 3 teams have already locked up a place in KC or Jackson because of how they did in the regular season. Murples, we're running this show and we've gotten more teams in there than anyone else since we've gone to our format. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Well, whoop de do! Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:29:49 03/08/05 Tue A few clarifications and comments here: SOD: I do not have a "disgust for the green and gold." What I do have is a dislike of the usually pompous attitude displayed by most of the OBU-affiliated posters on this board. It seems like most of them believe the SAC basketball world begins and ends with OBU. It doesn't. OBU has been successful in recent years. Great. So has OCU, USAO, SNU, even OC and LCU. All of those teams also have had crummy years in the past -- even OBU. Also, as far as the money issue, it wouldn't cost any more for one of the league schools that doesn't have a dog in the semifinal hunt (this year, SNU for example) to host the semis and final. There's no need to rent a facility unless you absolutely want to. To this strange "Pure Energy" person: Yes, the regular season is meaningless for the third-seeded team that has to play on the home court of the sixth-seeded team. The regular season should have meaning for everyone, not just the champion. To OC '91: Can't say I'm wild about your theory about getting rid of conference tournaments, but I can understand where you're coming from. I've always thought conference tournaments somewhat reduce the importance of the regular season. But they can also be great theatre, given the right circumstances, which do not involve lower seeds hosting higher seeds with something important like a national-tournament berth on the line. To Ray: The ends don't justify the means as far as getting teams into the tournament. If they earn it during the regular season, great. But don't give any team that didn't earn it a special advantage by hosting every conference tournament game. Bottom line, if the SAC used a truly fair and neutral system, you'd be able to spend a lot more time these days following baseball and softball, because your basketball team likely wouldn't have gotten past the first round at John Brown. The same could be said for LCU in '00 and OCU in '03. It sounds like more people agree with me in theory. Let's hope the SAC comes to its senses and gets it right in future years. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Well, whoop de do! Author: Ray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:13:53 03/08/05 Tue Appleseed, The SAC has it right. That's the thing about you. If it's not how you'd do it, it is wrong. And since you didn't go to OBU, OBU supporters are the pompous ones. You're a little too full of yourself Murray. Do you give yourself cramps? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ray, you're close to the edge again Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:02:00 03/09/05 Wed No, the SAC is not doing it right. It sounds like the majority of people agree with me -- neutral courts for the most important games of the season, or give the advantage to the higher-seeded team. I can't figure out why that's so hard for you to understand. And my dislike of pompous fans extends to more than just OBU. I got on OCU fans back in the day when they were a bit too big for their britches. OC fans, too. If you pay attention, I tell Nathan to pipe down quite a bit. I'm equal opportunity. Everyone should be more like SNU fans. Now, SNU's women are far and away the most successful program in SAC history -- 12 straight Final Fours, 7 national titles -- and yet you never see SNU fans overzealously boasting about how they're going to continually dominate. They just win with class and don't brag about it. That's an example we all could heed. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: where ARE the snu fans here? Author: Dad [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:16:36 03/09/05 Wed ...or do they only care about mens' hoops? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: where ARE the snu fans here? Author: SOJ [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:02:06 03/09/05 Wed Monte shows up now and again. I don't know about any others. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Well, whoop de do! Author: ABeamofPureEnergy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:34:21 03/09/05 Wed The regular season is what got John Brown into the national tournament. Their season isn’t over. In fact, the top four finishers of the regular season made it to the tournament. Furthermore, I would argue that the top 4 regular season finishers will go to the national tournament just about every year. If the ultimate goal of every team was solely to win the conference tournament, it would be different. But its not. The goal is to win the national championship. And to do that, the goal of the regular season is to make the national tournament. To call the regular season meaningless is just plain wrong. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You all are off the reservation Author: Wes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:35:15 03/09/05 Wed One reason you don't hear overzealous boasting from SNU fans is because they may have lost interest. I'm sure the environment is better for an OCU-SNU women's game, but I haven't exactly seen SNU fans following the women's team in droves. When OC went to the Sawyer Center this year, there were maybe 100-200 SNU fans at the women's game - to watch the 2-time defending national champs! Unbelievable. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Neutral Site Author: OC'91 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:48:15 03/08/05 Tue I fail to see what is so hard to understand here. Post season conference tournaments are stupid at the highest NCAA level. Nearly every hard-core fan will admit that in moments of clarity. Besides the occasional Cinderella run by a regular season also-ran...they serve very little purpose. Tournaments at the NAIA level, where budgets are already strained, are even more ludicrous. If it were up to me - ax the whole thing! Sending teams to Arkansas and Texas is just as bad as making those same teams come to central Oklahoma. I doubt seriously anyone makes any kind of serious cash off the tourney. If you have to have the tourney, how simple could it be to find a neutral site to host the semi's and final game? Going to State Fair Arena for the finals was a big deal when I was in college. Huge crowd, lots of attention and media coverage. I guess Murray might have brought some scorn on himself baiting OBU fans, but his point is generally correct. It isn't about supporting it while on "our" campus. It's just dumb to play every round of a post-season tournament on one SAC schools floor. That thought is not out of envy, but out of common sense. Too expensive. Too limiting. Too unbalanced. Kill it, or play it somewhere neutral. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]