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Subject: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
JonathanDawsonLynch
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Date Posted: 12:38:37 06/06/03 Fri

I have read the Bible. I find it disturbing, and frankly immoral in many of its proscribed beliefs. Specifically, the doctrine of eternal damnation is spelled out quite clearly in the Bible. However, I cannot personally think of any crime or sin worthy of eternal damnation. Maybe Adolph Hitler deserves 1 or 2 million years worth of torture for his crimes. But a couple million years is an infintessimally small part of eternity.

Only a God who is pointlessly evil and sadistic whould create a system whereby people recieve eternal damnation. Whether you define that damnation as eternal torture, or just eternal separation from God, it is still unjustifyable.

This is just one of many examples of ethical weaknesses to be found in the Bible. For this reason, I simply cannot accept the idea that the Bible is the word of God. For me to believe that, I would have to believe in a God of evil, and that just does not make sense.

Now, does anyone have an even remotely intelligent reply to this argument? Anything other than "Read the Bible, and then you will understand." I have read the bible, I find it offensive.

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[> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 23:16:51 06/06/03 Fri

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Iwillgonow

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[> [> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Matthew
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Date Posted: 16:04:22 12/10/05 Sat

You are right about one thing. The doctrine of eternal damnation is spelled out clearly in the Bible. But there is good news, Hell was not created for you. The bible says that it was created for the Devil and the demons. It was put into law that who ever rebels against God would have to go there. You see God made a way out. We can have eternal life. He gave his only begotton Son, Yeshua. He died on the cross so that we dont have to go to hell. You see God does not send people to hell. He gave you a choice to recieve eternal life. So if you deny him. You have chosen your eternal destiny in Hell. Not him.

Remember, Yahweh loves you, and so do I. Choose ye this day whome you will serve. Yahweh sets before you life and death. Make the choice today. Yeshua will take you today. You can be assured of heaven as if you are already there. All you have to do is say: Adonai Yeshua, I repent of my sins, I have trangressed your holy Law. I ask that you forgive me. I believe that you have died and rose from the dead. I believe that you will wash my sins away. Right my name in the lambs book of life. In Yeshua's mighty name I pray amen.

If you prayed that prayer with belief in your heart, the bible says that you are now a child of Yahweh.

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[> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
lampy
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Date Posted: 13:08:52 07/22/03 Tue

God has given us passage out of sin through JEsus Christ. He sent His Son to save us from eternal damnation. We are born in sin. Only one way to get away from damnation. JEsus Christ. Its very simple to accept Him. He loves you before you know Him. The friend that never leaves.
Peace to you
If you have concerns I suggest a Christian chat room such as ChurchUSA.com or another that you can discuss with believers at home at your convenience.

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[> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Misty
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Date Posted: 07:34:06 10/15/03 Wed

There was certainly a time when I felt the same way about our Creator, and what is supposed to be His Word, the Bible. I've done a very in depth research since then, and have found great relief in the knowledge I've recieved. If you wish to compare your notes with mine, feel free to email me, since I do enjoy sharing all that I've learned. Let me assure you however, that I do not agree at all, with what Christianity, as most understand it, teaches.
msc7967@hotmail.com

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[> [> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Jess (Huh.)
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Date Posted: 16:05:36 11/16/06 Thu

Misty has given well researched and proveable information regarding the Bible's teachings about Hell. Of course, truth is to be searched for like treasure as Misty has done, not an easy task at all, and the treasure is not to the liking of some when its found as we have obviously seen from Paul.

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[> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Misty
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Date Posted: 08:29:21 10/16/03 Thu

Try adding this report into your studies, you may find the information very enlightening.
Hell
Definition: The word “hell” is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read “the grave,” “the world of the dead,” and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered “hell”; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge´en•na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).
Explanations of abbreviations used in this research are shown at the bottom of this report.
Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)
Does the Bible indicate that the soul survives the death of the body?
Ezek. 18:4: “The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.”
“The concept of ‘soul,’ meaning a purely spiritual, immaterial reality, separate from the ‘body,’ . . . does not exist in the Bible.”—La Parole de Dieu (Paris, 1960), Georges Auzou, professor of Sacred Scripture, Rouen Seminary, France, p. 128.
“Although the Hebrew word nefesh [in the Hebrew Scriptures] is frequently translated as ‘soul,’ it would be inaccurate to read into it a Greek meaning. Nefesh . . . is never conceived of as operating separately from the body. In the New Testament the Greek word psyche is often translated as ‘soul’ but again should not be readily understood to have the meaning the word had for the Greek philosophers. It usually means ‘life,’ or ‘vitality,’ or, at times, ‘the self.’”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1977), Vol. 25, p. 236.
What sort of people go to the Bible hell?
Does the Bible say that the wicked go to hell?
Ps. 9:17, KJ: “The wicked shall be turned into hell,* and all the nations that forget God.”
Does the Bible also say that upright people go to hell?
Job 14:13, Dy: “[Job prayed:] Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell,* and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?” (God himself said that Job was “a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad.”—Job 1:8.) (*“The grave,” KJ; “the world of the dead,” TEV; “Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB, NW.)
Acts 2:25-27, KJ: “David speaketh concerning him [Jesus Christ], . . . Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell,* neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” (The fact that God did not “leave” Jesus in hell implies that Jesus was in hell, or Hades, at least for a time, does it not?) (*“Hell,” Dy; “death,” NE; “the place of death,” Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV; “Hades,” AS, RS, JB, NW.)

Does anyone ever get out of the Bible hell?
Rev. 20:13, 14, KJ: “The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell* delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” (So the dead will be delivered from hell. Notice also that hell is not the same as the lake of fire but will be cast into the lake of fire.) (*“Hell,” Dy, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV; “Hades,” NE, AS, RS, JB, NW.)
Why is there confusion as to what the Bible says about hell?
“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.
Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohl´ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; hai´des is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; ge´en•na is also translated “hell.” (2) Today’s English Version transliterates hai´des as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from hai´des it uses that same translation for ge´en•na. (3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates hai´des six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates ge´en•na as “hell,” as it does hai´des in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured.
Is there eternal punishment for the wicked?
Matt. 25:46, KJ: “These shall go away into everlasting punishment [“lopping off,” Int; Greek, ko´la•sin]: but the righteous into life eternal.” (The Emphatic Diaglott reads “cutting-off” instead of “punishment.” A footnote states: “Kolasin . . . is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. . . . 3. To chastise, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment;—hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted, because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death. See 2 Thess. 1.9.”)
2 Thess. 1:9, RS: “They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction* and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” (*“Eternal ruin,” NAB, NE; “lost eternally,” JB; “condemn them to eternal punishment,” Kx; “eternal punishment in destruction,” Dy.)
Jude 7, KJ: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah ceased burning thousands of years ago. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt. God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example. At Luke 17:29, Jesus says that they were “destroyed”; Jude 7 shows that the destruction was eternal.)
What is the meaning of the ‘eternal torment’ referred to in Revelation?
Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10, KJ: “If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment [Greek, basa•ni•smou´] ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
What is the ‘torment’ to which these texts refer? It is noteworthy that at Revelation 11:10 (KJ) reference is made to ‘prophets that torment those dwelling on the earth.’ Such torment results from humiliating exposure by the messages that these prophets proclaim. At Revelation 14:9-11 (KJ) worshipers of the symbolic “beast and his image” are said to be “tormented with fire and brimstone.” This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because “the dead know not any thing.” (Eccl. 9:5, KJ) Then, what causes them to experience such torment while they are still alive? It is the proclamation by God’s servants that worshipers of the “beast and his image” will experience second death, which is represented by “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” The smoke, associated with their fiery destruction, ascends forever because the destruction will be eternal and will never be forgotten. When Revelation 20:10 says that the Devil is to experience ‘torment forever and ever’ in “the lake of fire and brimstone,” what does that mean? Revelation 21:8 (KJ) says clearly that “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone” means “the second death.” So the Devil’s being “tormented” there forever means that there will be no relief for him; he will be held under restraint forever, actually in eternal death. This use of the word “torment” (from the Greek ba´sa•nos) reminds one of its use at Matthew 18:34, where the same basic Greek word is applied to a ‘jailer.’—RS, AT, ED, NW.
What is the ‘fiery Gehenna’ to which Jesus referred?
Reference to Gehenna appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression ge´en•nan tou py•ros´ as “hell fire” (KJ, Dy), “fires of hell” (NE), “fiery pit” (AT), and “fires of Gehenna” (NAB).
Historical background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”
What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?
Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”
Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?
Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)
Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!
By what Jesus said about the rich man and Lazarus, did Jesus teach torment of the wicked after death?
Is the account, at Luke 16:19-31, literal or merely an illustration of something else? The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.” If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there. Does that sound reasonable to you? If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? But the Bible does not contradict itself.
What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14.) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32.) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.—Acts 5:33; 7:54.
What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?
In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.
But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

Good Day to You Neighbor

AS - American Standard Version (1901; as printed in 1944), American Revision Committee.
AT - The Bible—An American Translation (1935), J. M. Powis Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed.
By - The Bible in Living English (published in 1972), Steven T. Byington.
CBW - The New Testament—A Translation in the Language of the People (1937; as printed in 1950), Charles B. Williams.
CC - The New Testament (1941; as printed in 1947), Confraternity of Christian Doctrine Revision.
CKW - The New Testament—A New Translation in Plain English (1963), Charles K. Williams.
Da - The ‘Holy Scriptures’ (1882; as printed in 1949), J. N. Darby.
Dy - Catholic Challoner-Douay Version (1750; as printed in 1941).
ED - The Emphatic Diaglott (1864; as printed in 1942), Benjamin Wilson.
Int - The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1969).
JB - The Jerusalem Bible (1966), Alexander Jones, general editor.
JP - The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text (1917), Jewish Publication Society of America.
KJ - King James Version (1611; as printed in 1942).
Kx - The Holy Bible (1954; as printed in 1956), Ronald A. Knox.
LEF - The Christian’s Bible—New Testament (1928), George N. LeFevre.
LXX - Greek Septuagint Version.
Mo - A New Translation of the Bible (1934), James Moffatt.
NAB - The New American Bible, Saint Joseph Edition (1970).
NE - The New English Bible (1970).
NTIV - The New Testament in an Improved Version (1808), published in London.
Ro - The Emphasised Bible (1897), Joseph B. Rotherham.
RS - Revised Standard Version, Second Edition (1971).
Sd - The Authentic New Testament (1958), Hugh J. Schonfield.
SE - The Simple English Bible—New Testament, American Edition (1981).
TC - The Twentieth Century New Testament, Revised Edition (1904).
TEV - Good News Bible—Today’s English Version (1976).
We - The New Testament in Modern Speech (1929; as printed in 1944), Richard F. Weymouth.
Yg - The Holy Bible, Revised Edition (1887), Robert Young.

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[> [> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Paul
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Date Posted: 15:36:35 06/03/05 Fri



Your a kook

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[> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Deborah Kuzenski
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Date Posted: 20:48:22 07/08/05 Fri

The King James Bible is the most perfectly translated version of God's Infallible Word that we have in English. You find it offensive because you think like a natural human being. God's Ways are higher than our ways. And, guess what, He's in charge. So it's His Way or the highway (to Hell).

God has a two-fold Purpose: one purpose for the earth; and one for the heavens. He will redeem the earth back from Satan with the nation of Israel; and the heavens with the Body He's forming during this Grace Age, the Body of Christ.God interrupted His program with Israel during the Book of Acts period and raised up Paul with a new Gospel of Grace to form the Body of Christ. If you want to be part of what God is doing, and to understand what He's saying to us through Paul, simply place your complete faith in Jesus Christ and His Death for your sins and you will be saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit. No works or human merit are required. Once you have the Holy Spirit, you will be able to begin to comprehend the Scriptures. Look for what God has for us in Paul's epistles; you'll find our doctrines there.

May God richly bless you with His understanding!

Debbie

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[> [> Subject: Re: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
Julie
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Date Posted: 13:43:06 07/09/05 Sat

While I do believe that the KJV version of the Bible is the most accurate version, I do not agree that all you need is faith in Jesus to be saved. Herein lies the age-old debate on faith vs. grace vs. works. Please feel free to check out the "faith" section of this website for more information on the topic and below I will list some quotes that seem to suggest that works are still required for salvation.

Math:5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
* If you look at the translation of "fulfil" it means to cause to abound or to carry into effect.

Roma:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Jame:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jame:2:17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jame:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jame:2:21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jame:2:22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jame:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jame:2:25: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Jame:2:26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You cannot be saved by works alone, just as you cannot be saved by faith alone.

Julie

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