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Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD... (Isaiah 1:18)
http://www.reason-together.net

Subject: prophecy


Author:
michael
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Date Posted: 13:08:34 03/22/11 Tue

the feet partially of iron and partially of clay - in daniel - thoughts on what they represent

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  • Re: prophecy -- BL (what are you thinking?), 19:19:52 03/15/12 Thu
Subject: If you cannot love an eternal torment god


Author:
Rodger Tutt (http://www.tentmaker.org)
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Date Posted: 12:42:04 07/09/08 Wed

If you cannot love an eternal torment god

For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.shtml
Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were using the Bible in its original language. This online book also explains why and how this changed.

Up until now, after reading this post, many believers in eternal torment have said something like, “I truly sympathize with your sufferings, but it’s what the Bible says that matters, not whether or not it makes you suffer.” That’s why I want to say right at the outset that many of the links posted here show that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible actually teach universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.

I’m 69 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that are related to this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

Don’t kid yourself. If anyone suffers forever JESUS IS DOING IT TO THEM

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

THE GOD THAT CALVINIST AND ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENTORS PROFESS TO LOVE

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

To read a description of eternal torment combination Calv-Arminianism see
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

This next url sums up the end result of all three
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist.
So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering. What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such an insane idea!

Here is what the God that universal transformationists love and worship with complete abandon will do. He will complete the process of salvation for the first fruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. Then He will complete the process of salvation for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead to guarantee that any necessary "kolasis aionian" (age-during corrective chastisement) will be 100% effective in changing wrong attitudes. All acts of sin have been forgiven for everyone. Attitudes cannot be forgiven. Attitudes must change. This is what the lake of fire which is the second death will do. It will last no longer than God sees is good for everyone involved.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html

You can Google up good articles on this subject by typing in kolasis aionian

Also see

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

For anyone who cannot love an endless-hell god ---
BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST RESOURCES

Copy and paste the following urls into the address bar

http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html

http://www.christianuniversalist.org

Also see

Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation,

http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

(If necessary, copy and paste them into your address bar)

and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

Also see http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69

I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
He answers the question, "Which view of salvation is true?"

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

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Subject: Song


Author:
Maarten van Prooije
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Date Posted: 07:06:49 06/05/08 Thu

Hi. all, I am looking for written music for COME NOW LET US REASON TOGETHER to use in our church worship. Can anyone help?
Love and blessings, maarten

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Subject: Jerusalem division is imminent


Author:
Denny
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Date Posted: 15:53:00 02/09/08 Sat

I wrote this article for the News Page at: TheTrueChurch.net

Olmert hints Jerusalem division
is imminent

JERUSALEM Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Indicated
that Israel might have no other choice but to share
the city of Jerusalem with the Palestinians in a peace deal, he cited pressure from the international community for concessions over the holy city. This means that a divided Jerusalem could be a reality in the near future.
"The world that is friendly to Israel ... that really supports Israel, when it speaks of the future, it speaks of Israel in terms of the '67 borders. It speaks of the division of Jerusalem," the Prime Minister said in an interview with The Jerusalem Post.
For those who do not remember or know; The nation of Israel captured Arab East Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war and annexed it in a move that failed to win international recognition. Israel regards all of Jerusalem as its "eternal and indivisible" capital given to them by God as recorded in the Old Testament or Torah.
Palestinians want East Jerusalem back, to establish a capital of the state they aspire to establish in the occupied West Bank and in the Gaza Strip.
Jerusalem's future is one of the main issues Israel and the Palestinians agreed to settle in peace talks they renewed after a U.S.-hosted summit in Annapolis, Maryland in November.
Olmert's comments appeared to be another attempt by the prime minister to prepare the Israeli people for the possibility of a deal that would loosen Israel's control of Jerusalem. Something that will be almost impossible of the Israeli people to justify.
His deputy and close confidant, Haim Ramon said, Israel should in the future negotiate the creation of a "special regime" that would govern some of the sacred sites in Jerusalem's Old City.
From a Biblical Perspective
Jerusalem is the main stumbling stone in any effort toward a concession in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. It was foretold by Zechariah that Jerusalem would be a huge political and social powder keg leading up to the end time.
"Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples... "And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away, will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it." (Zechariah 12:2-3).
God clearly revealed to the people of Israel what he would do because of there disobedience; Amos 7:8 '' ...Then the Lord said: "Behold, I am setting a plumb line in the midst of My people Israel; I will not pass by them anymore." (and verse 17): "...your land shall be divided by survey line; you shall die in a defiled land; and Israel shall surely be led away captive from his own land.' ''
The Great News of Jesus is; "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near" (Luke 21:28). At Christ's return He will free the downtrodden city. It will regain its status as The City of Peace, truth and glory. Jesus Christ will free all of humanity from this broken world and establish His Kingdom on earth. Zechariah 14:9 says, "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be"
(by: Dennis Florio)

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Subject: Ray


Author:
America (grumpybumpas)
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Date Posted: 03:48:20 10/24/07 Wed

(New kid on the block,just waiving a hand.)

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Subject: Salvation


Author:
Bobbie (Happy)
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Date Posted: 10:05:26 10/11/07 Thu

Jesus Christ referred to Satan as being "the ruler of the world," the one whom mankind in general obeys by his influence, ignoring God's requirements. The bible calls him "the god of this system of things."

Satan is allowed to deceive mankind. Folks that are "not" blinded by Satan will choose to follow God's standards. Those that choose to follow Satan will end up having the same outcome as Satan; destruction.

It isn't that God chooses a certain amount of people to receive him or follow him. People make the choice for themselves. 2 Cor. 4:4 & 1 Cor. 10:20.

Satan is the ruler of this world, and has a limited amount of time to influence mankind. Our creator is giving mankind time to make the decision to serve him or serve Satan. It's really up to us.

2 Peter 3:9: "God is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you, because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."

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Subject: Chrisitian encyclopedia


Author:
Babatope Babalobi
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Date Posted: 06:34:53 06/04/07 Mon

We are developing a Christian encycopedia at www.christonline.info

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Subject: "Taking In Knowledge"


Author:
Bobbie (Happy)
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Date Posted: 19:00:20 02/14/07 Wed

John 17:3-"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." If we all lived by these words there would not be turmoil in the world.

In general, people need to read the bible daily, to take in knowledge, apply it to their lives, so that they can have a close relationship with their creator.

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Subject: Earth


Author:
Bobbie (Happy)
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Date Posted: 09:55:25 12/29/06 Fri

Psalm 37:10,11 talks about inheriting the earth and that God's Kingdom will reign as our Government over earth and the heavens.

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Subject: Future


Author:
Bobbie (Happy)
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Date Posted: 09:19:20 12/29/06 Fri

Rev. 21:3,4 brings a positive message from our Creator.

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Subject: Jesus is a God


Author:
JesusLove
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Date Posted: 21:32:04 01/26/06 Thu



I was looking for Christian message boards to see the topics. I wanted to see if doctrines or principles were being discussed. I saw here that some are asking questions in their search for truth. One of them is "Is Jesus a God?"
Yes. It says in 1 John 1:1 "The Word {Jesus Christ} was with God and the Word was God" The Word is another title for Jesus Christ as He was the messenger of the word
{the gospel}.

Another post was about the trinity in which a statement was made that the word trinity isn't in the bible. That is true.

That same issue was brought up on another website
" Religious Forums . Com " that I frequently visit.

In the bible debate forum there, a person posted the question "Is Trinity in the bible?". It is one of the longest threads on the website. Many people are interested in the Trinity Mystery.

There is a post in bible debate entitled
"Trinity Mystery Solved" that explains that The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three seperate individuals as proven in
Matthew 3:16

It also explains how the Father, His son {Jesus Christ} and the Holy Ghost are one.

This post is found on page 2 of bible debate. There are 5,000 members on the website, "Religious Forums" so posts move quickly down the list.

There is a very enlightening post about the Holy Spirit worth reading on page 2 of Compararative Religeon. It's entitled
"Who is the Holy Spirit? How does He answer our questions?
How does He feel?"

There are other areas on the website that are just discussion forums like this. Each religeon has it's own room. The various Christian denominations have their own room to discuss their faith. There also is a forum to compare their beliefs, doctrines, principles. This forum is the Comparative Religeon Forum. All these discussion areas are found by clicking on Enter Forums.

I thought, rather than have to rewrite all that was written, I would direct all interested people to the post.

I am amazed at how much specific doctrine is discussed there. Perhapps you can add your knowledge there, while having more to discuss here.

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Subject: Truth


Author:
Nathan
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Date Posted: 22:44:42 11/25/05 Fri

I have been surfing the net looking at Christian websites and I am astonished at the amount of religious nonsense, sectarian bigotry, selfrighteous intellectualism, lukewamness and plain lack of Christ-centredness about.
Isn't there anyone one who can say, 'Today we raised the dead, cast out demons and preached the gospel so that thousands were saved'? Apparently not; and it grieves me deeply.

When I was a young Christian I surrendered my understanding to God and immediately began to know Christ as Teacher. I don't need anyone to teach me the truth but I long to hear someone say they have met people who are like Christ.
I have only met one person who I thought was something like Christ in his love, holiness and power. He was an evangelist who was willing to face the firing squad for preaching in Turkey. (He was converted when he heard Jesus call his name from Heaven.) In twenty five years only this one man...

I can't bring myself to say anymore.

God bless you

Nathan

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Subject: Help!!! I am spiritually lazy!


Author:
Taneshia
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Date Posted: 22:14:01 11/19/05 Sat

I need help. I used to be sooo intimate with God. I made sure I made time to pray and grow. Nowadays I plan to spend time with Dad (God), to seek Him early, but seem to always get distracted or I won't prioritize. I surely don't want trials to bring me back... I know what to do... I have just become lazy I think... or something because I have the want to but I am struggling with the will too. HELP. Pray! Advise! Rebuke! Something because what I been doing ain't been working. I feel how I feel about the gym. I struggle to get there but when I finally do there is nothing else I'd rather be doing. It's the getting there part. When Iget into His presence there is no place I'd rather be... it's getting there that's the issue. Taneshia

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Subject: Casting for TRADING SPOUSES!


Author:
Alana Michaels
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Date Posted: 18:58:07 02/18/05 Fri

Hello! My name is Alana Michaels. I am casting for FOX's hit family-themed reality show, “Trading Spouses." The purpose of our show is to compare and contrast various families across the country while highlighting their different interests and cultures!

We love interesting families who could show the world a little bit about what makes them so special! I am specifically searching for families who have made Christian Bible Camp/Bible Study and Youth Group a MAJOR part of their life! ....We want you to share your love of the lord with America!!

In addition to this great learning experience, each family that appears on the show will receive $50,000!! I would love to get in contact with some families who YOU think would be great for our show! So please feel free to forward this email along to anyone whom you think would be interested, or you can call or email me directly.

If you know of anyone who might fit this description, please contact me as soon as possible.

Thanks so much for your time!

Sincerely,

Alana Michaels
CASTING DEPARTMENT
Rocket Science Laboratories/Trading Spouses
alanam@rocketsciencelabs.com
323-802-0655

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Subject: Why?


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 15:39:58 10/30/04 Sat

Ever wonder why? Why is this life? Why do things happen the way they do? Why do we exist? Why is this universe the way it is? Then read our site in the topic of your question and consider it.

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Replies:
  • Re: Why? -- Miranda, 20:32:59 03/11/06 Sat
Subject: Destruction of the Wicked an Act of Mercy


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 14:03:56 07/17/04 Sat

Could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God.

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Subject: Think about sin. Think about it...


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 22:09:33 06/04/04 Fri

The entrance of sin into heaven cannot be explained. If it were explainable, it would show that there was some reason for sin. But as there was not the least excuse for it, its origin will ever remain shrouded in mystery.

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Subject: Book of Job- Theodicy


Author:
Robert Sutherland
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Date Posted: 09:47:23 05/23/04 Sun

In my newly published book "Putting God on Trial- The Biblical Book of Job" (http://www.bookofjob.org), I assert the Book of Job presents a Hegelian theodicy.

Undeserved evil (in the life of Job and by implication all mankind) is morally necessary for the production of a particular type of faith or love: a completely selfless love of man for God.

To say God is causally responsible for evil (the agency relationship between God and Satan) is not to say God is morally blameworthy for such evil. He is only blameworthy if his reason for sending undeserved evil (into the life of Job and by implication all mankind) is not necessary and sufficient.

In Job's Oath of Innocence, his vindication is a finding of causal responsiblity. He is innocent of anything deserved the evil that has befallen him and his family. God is the author of that evil. The condemnation is a finding of moral blameworthiness. Job never takes that second step separate from the Oath to condemn God.

In Job's second speech to God, Job changes course. That is the significance of the Hebrew "naham", improperly translated "repent". "Naham" normally means to change course or to be comforted. "Shub" is the Hebrew word for a confession of moral wrongdoing. Job had considered condemning God, but after hearing God's second speech, Job found suggestions of the existence of a defense by God and granted God an adjournment to the Day of the Final Judgment. God could complete his use of evil in the world and give a full and final exposition of the reason for it then.

The message of the Book of Job is that man has a right to know the reason for evil in the world. God has a duty to give it, but that duty is nuanced so that God does not have to give it here and now.

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Subject: (Born again.)


Author:
Perry2010
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Date Posted: 09:05:36 05/02/04 Sun

Iff i choose to be born again in the morning,will i have two belly buttons???

I know that iff i unscrew my belly button my bum will fall off,but i'm not so shure of what will hapen to my spiritual belly button.

(Boy do i need help.)

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Subject: ;)


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 23:24:50 02/20/04 Fri

:D

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Subject: Forgetfulness


Author:
Jello13091
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Date Posted: 20:41:06 12/12/03 Fri

"We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history."

Interesting... are we really capable of forgetting the way that the Lord has led us? It is understandable to intentionally choose another way, but can we actually forget the path that He leads us down?

Just a little food for thought there.

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Subject: Trinity!


Author:
Zapicles
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Date Posted: 05:15:10 12/12/03 Fri

Blessing in our Lord Jesus Christ!

First off, there is NO Trinity! No where in the bible does it say the "Trinity" "Triune" 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. This is a man made doctrine brought about from the "Roman Empire" in which it took them over 300 yrs after the death of Christ and the apostles to come up with the 1st) Apostles Creed
2nd)Arianism Creed, and finally hashed out to the 3rd)Nicene creed.

If you followed the Roman Empire and studied on their paganistic relgions, you would see how they have twisted the Jewish faith One Lord. One God. Duet 6:4 into a mutiplicity of personalities of God and persons!

Jesus was a man, human, created by the father, a vessel in which the Father dwelt in. Mans sin was so terrible that it warrented death, and the Father gave himself as the sacrafice.

How does one separate The Voice of the Father from the Father? How does ones voice become a different person?

Joh 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


We beheld the "Glory" of the Father, not another person.

The trinity is a man made doctrine, of someone whom lived in a culture of many gods derived some mumble jumble about the ONE true Lord. Took what was said about the ONE and made it into three for the understanding of their beliefs. Confusing many, and leading a multitude astray!

The off shoots of the Roman Catholic church, in which some didn't believe in the way they (Romans) worshiped were being led by the blind, and deciet upon deciet.

Go back to the original faith of the Jews. The Lord has changed not. Nor will change.

---would like to continue but need to run so will continue later----

In Christ's Love Doug

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Subject: a simple message


Author:
billy wright
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Date Posted: 13:46:57 11/10/03 Mon

everything is relative...everything means nothing...nothing means everything...organized religion is a mechanism of control...jesus was not the messiah...you think the bible is 100% accurate? even in the information age, we can't get stories straight...what makes you think thousands of years of oral tradition has any true bearing whatsoever? people believe what they want to believe, because it makes them feel good...it gives you a sense of control over your life...when people challenge our sense of control, we resist...we cannot accept the true fact
that we have no real control...control is an abstract concept...control in another sense means power...this comes in the form of money, ideas, physical prowess, etc...what makes you think you're right? you're wrong, and i'm bigger than you and have more money than you...i can do whatever i want to you...does this sound familiar to anyone? however, even the people with the power are not invincible...they too realize their lack of control over things as they all die someday...and can only hope their legacies are carried out by their followers seeking the same control...so what does it all mean? life is but a continuous cycle of birth, destruction, death? why not just kill yourselves and spare the misery? why give up all that you've come to enjoy? all those consumer goods that make life easier to live...well, all that doesn't matter, because when you have nothing, what do you have? you have an inner soul...something inside us all desires to be loved and appreciated...we want to be attended to...we want to know that someone else out there would make sacrifices for us...on the same token, we would do the same for that other person...reciprocity is what it's called...extending it a little further, and you have what we all call love...the only thing truly making this life worth living...in the end, nothing really matters...all that matters is whether or not you were able to experience
love...and love does come in many forms...what if the world all truly loved one another? irregardless of everything good or bad they'd done....what you'd have is a true follower of jesus...see, jesus was not the messiah...he never claimed to be...from what the bible says, jesus actually preached nothing more than love and forgiveness...jesus knew thousands of years ago that the only way to world peace was loving each other irregardless of what they do, i.e. understanding each other (you could also claim that he was a jew who just got sick and tired of his own "backwards" religion; who's to really know what his hidden agenda, if any, was all about!)......understanding the other person is what forgiveness is all about...should we punish another person, because they wronged us? vengeance breeds more vengeance...some would call it justice...justice is just a nice word for vengeance...what is law? it's a method of control...again, there is always something outside our control that controls us...why? because people long ago realized that the state of nature is chaos...how do you contain chaos? how do you make people get along with one another? well, since none of these other forms of control are really working, isn't love and forgiveness the only way left? see, most of you all do not want love and forgiveness because the simple acceptance of it means you lose your own control...we are all susceptible to how others behave around us...what do you do when someone kills your brother? do you want to kill him? or do you want to sit down with that person, understand why they did it, and then say i love you and forgive you? if we all choose the latter, we will be better off...through that, we will have a more loving and understanding world...through love, you break barriers and you break cycles...love feeds off love...the more people you have loving one another, the less "problems" you will have...the less "chaotic" the world will seem...after
all, we are just a bunch of animals with "advanced" brains and "feelings"...break the cycle...

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Subject: Trivia


Author:
Iwillgonow
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Date Posted: 00:06:03 10/18/03 Sat

Did you know that Jesus Christ could have chosen to sin while he walked this earth in the flesh? For 30 some-odd years he lived the life of any other man, and not once did he give into temptation. He had free will just as much as you or I, and yet he never faltered.

What does it mean that Jesus could have decided to sin? What does it matter? Is it worth knowing whether or not he could have sinned?

Discuss.

Iwillgonow

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Subject: The bible is not the word of God.


Author:
JonathanDawsonLynch
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Date Posted: 12:38:37 06/06/03 Fri

I have read the Bible. I find it disturbing, and frankly immoral in many of its proscribed beliefs. Specifically, the doctrine of eternal damnation is spelled out quite clearly in the Bible. However, I cannot personally think of any crime or sin worthy of eternal damnation. Maybe Adolph Hitler deserves 1 or 2 million years worth of torture for his crimes. But a couple million years is an infintessimally small part of eternity.

Only a God who is pointlessly evil and sadistic whould create a system whereby people recieve eternal damnation. Whether you define that damnation as eternal torture, or just eternal separation from God, it is still unjustifyable.

This is just one of many examples of ethical weaknesses to be found in the Bible. For this reason, I simply cannot accept the idea that the Bible is the word of God. For me to believe that, I would have to believe in a God of evil, and that just does not make sense.

Now, does anyone have an even remotely intelligent reply to this argument? Anything other than "Read the Bible, and then you will understand." I have read the bible, I find it offensive.

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Subject: Bible clearly says that Jesus is God? is this true?


Author:
Darsita
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Date Posted: 05:13:47 12/11/02 Wed


Dear Sir,

Is that true Bible clearly says that Jesus is God? Can you tell me more about Jesus?


Thank you and have a nice day.

Darsita
Malaysia

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Subject: Why I choose Christ..


Author:
Michelle
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Date Posted: 07:34:13 11/30/02 Sat

I recently stumbled across a website called
www.exchristian.net

I noticed as I read some of things on that site that the creator of the site was very bitter and twisted against Christ and the Church. I decided that I would post some messages to show an alternative view to what was being said. However, I also sent him an email apologizing to him for those individuals in the Church who had hurt him and saying that it wasn't God's fault and such!

I got an email back from him finishing up with a lines, "FInally, I appreciate your apology on the behalf of Christendom, but I expect a direct apology from Christ himself. It is he who said he is building HIS CHURCH. It is not the fault of the pot if the potter is bad at his work."

I wrote back saying that I wasn't wanting to get into an argument by saying what I am saying, but merely putting forward an alternative view! All of this caused me to get on his front page for awhile!

He misunderstood something that I had said, and replied, "Michelle, If the Islamics are correct, you have much to lose indeed and I understand that Allah's hell is much hotter than Yahweh's hell.

Then again, the Mormons might be right, and in that case you are screwed too. Better look into it. YOUR ETERNAL SOUL depends on you making the right GOD choice. LOL "

So, I basically wrote the following....

I have made the choice I have made for many reasons, by the way, I didn't know you were considering the Islamic faith!! :-) I have read many good points put forward for a young earth, and for a creator. One thing that I personally can't get away from is the design that I see in nature. We look at a new car, and critique the design, but we can't look at a human being and see the plain elements of design there. I see a complexity in nature - people, animals, the outdoors, the sky, outer space etc that I just can not explain away with evolution. I can't get away from that! There must be a god!

OK, so looking at various gods - I see the Islamic faith as a religion based on works - just like the others - Catholicism, Buddhism, Animism, Mormonism. With all of those, if you don't DO things exactly right, you lose - eternal punishments, curses etc.

However, Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should have eternal life." That's it! That's all! God knew that we were only human (capable of making mistakes - no matter how hard we tried to do the RIGHT thing). He knew that, and so provision needed to be made to make up the gap there! I don't see that in any other religion.

There are many archeological finds that have supported the Bible. For awhile, people didn't know whether or not they should trust the Old Testament. Then, they found the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is one of many finds that have supported the Bible. Christianity isn't just about blind faith! There is some rational thinking behind it too mate!

For all these reasons and more have I CHOSEN JESUS to be my Lord and Saviour. Not only that, but He has come through time and time and time again to prove Himself to me! I have experienced Him in a way that just can not be taken away from me! I KNOW that I KNOW that I KNOW He is real!

Feel free to visit my webpage that discusses these things...

http://www.geocities.com/jcgirl1992/why.html?1019704071014

Bless you guys heaps!

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Subject: Virgin Birth


Author:
Chaudhry R. Nijjhar
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Date Posted: 11:46:44 10/13/02 Sun

B I R T H O F J E S U S


Jesus, the anointed Christ of God was born of a Virgin of the house of king
David in the manger of an inn situate in the town of Bethelhem, the
birthplace of king David. WHY?

WHY THE VIRGIN BIRTH!: The answer to this lies in Rom.2.29: "But he is a
Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the
spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" and
in Matt.13.24-30: "......The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which
sowed good seed in his field.......Let both grow together until the harvest;
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together
first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat
into my barn". At the time of Jesus, most of the Jews especially of the
tribe of Judah had become the Jews of "flesh" and of the "letters". By
doing so they had severed their link or covenant with Adam or their
forefather Abraham.

In God, unless you become of your father in "flesh", you cannot be of your
Father in "spirit". Thus, it was the duty of the Levi Priests in Moses to
establish the covenant of people with Adam and for this very reason, John,
the Baptist, an ideal Levi Priest of Moses came before Jesus to do so so
that the people baptised in the name of Adam (water) could be handed over to
Jesus for Baptism in the name of God (Spirit). This John stressed in
Matt.3.7-12: "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to
his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers (hypocrites), who
hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? .....And think not to say
within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father; for I say unto you, that
God is able of these stones (simpletons) to raise up children unto Abraham.
........".

Thus, as most of the Jewish people had become the Jews of the "flesh", so
Jesus was left with no other choice than to appear among the spiritually
sick people of Judah tribe of a "Virgin" and for this reason St.Paul called
Jesus a second "Adam". Thus, Jesus was a "Son of Adam" whilst we born of
our tribal fathers are "sons of Adam".

WHY IN THE MANGER OF THE INN: Inn is analogous to the "Church of God" in
that as every weary traveller comes to an inn for physical rest so does
every person weary of the material world goes to the Church of God for
spiritual rest. And further, in the House of God the highest being the
lowest, Jesus could not rest in the upper or the lower room of the inn, but
the "MANGER", the lowest in the inn. So, this very happening is another
implicit "proof" that the Father of Jesus was God and not any human being.

WHY IN BETHELHEM: This most of us know that Jesus was born in the line of
David. This is so because Bethelhem was the birth place of king David, who
was a very religious person to the "Letters" of the law except the instance
of adultery with his army captain's wife. In the times of king David, the
people in general and especially the people of Judah tribe were highly
law-abiding people. So, they went mostly by the "letters" of the law and
such people are called "angelic". But in the Dark Age in which Jesus, the
"Light", appeared things opposite to the previous Age happen i.e. the most
angelic and knowledgeable people in the past become the most satanic or the
spiritually sick people needing the Spiritual Doctor, Jesus, and the most.
Thus, if the Jews proclaimed David to be their "king", Jesus became their
"Royal King".

For further information, please contact:-
Bro. R. NIJJHAR, GNOSTIC ASSOCIATION, 144, Hamilton Road, Reading RG1 5RE.
Tel. Reading (0118) - 962 3200

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Subject: Isaiah


Author:
Julie
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Date Posted: 20:44:38 08/09/02 Fri

Isai:58:13: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

Isai:58:14: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

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