VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 123456789[10] ]
Subject: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
M3
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 06:41:32 08/14/24 Wed

https://www.wsj.com/sports/basketball/ivy-league-transfers-college-sports-624c0d38?mod=hp_listb_pos2

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Yawn...


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:08:37 08/14/24 Wed


I've been seeing articles of this sort ever since I received my own degree.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Richard (Kent)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:37:43 08/14/24 Wed

The article is 100% spot on. The fact that I was quoted is irrelevant. The League was savaged after last season. It could be worse after next season. I warned about this a year ago and someone said ignore him, he has a vested interest. The next frontier is lacrosse. All universities now have 33 scholarships, so a kid choosing Cornell or Penn over a UVA is highly unlikely. The best outcome is that the League loses the Choh case an the Philly wage case and actually pretends that it is 2024 and not 1954. It is a miracles that Brown, Yale and Princeton kep 6 star players in basketball. All are upperclassmen close to a degree. Good luck keep a rising sophomore after next season. No NIL. No collectives. No scholarships will be the end of Ivy sports as we know it.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:15:55 08/14/24 Wed

The ostriches have come home to roost.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Uptown
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:17:49 08/14/24 Wed

Welcome to the plebiscite. Lol
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Richard (Kent)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:40:35 08/14/24 Wed

Plebiscite is not applicable. At least 2 Ivies are paying already and it is fully above board and consistent with Alston and state statutes. The others need to decide what to do. Choh and Kirk have objected to the House settlement. Kudos to them.No conference would suffer more than the Ivy if the Judge approves the terms.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
RedWin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:21:01 08/14/24 Wed

I disagree as most NIL money is short-sighted. It's currently a highly competitive workforce and if you're not getting a good education after four years in college, then you're screwed. Sure there are a ton of lower paying and dead end jobs for former college students, but if former college student-athletes do not graduate with a meaningful degree then forget about climbing to the upper-middle class and above pay grades.

When I started my career with a major financial firm, the woman who hired me was a Cornell graduate. When only after a year, she protected me from a huge round of layoffs. If I had played major college sports with a worthless recreation management degree, I would still be selling Nikes at Dicks. My Ivy education has definitely been a huge help with my career.
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Richard (Kent)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:58:13 08/14/24 Wed

Oh my.

Duke
Stanford
Rice
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Michigan and many others say hello! Ross School of Business is laughing.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Bob S
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:42:14 08/14/24 Wed

Agreed-There many excellent academic and athletic programs outside of the Ivies. Wolf going to Michigan, Mack to Georgetown, and Okpara to Stanford-Excellent academic schools plus they are getting scholarships and NIL on top-renders the Ivy degree counter argument nil in those circumstances. Agreed that NIL may not be sustainable in long term but the athletes in the Power 4 are going to be paid. Have not seen how the Patriot League is responding to the new environment-does any one have any info on them?
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
John Harvard
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:39:19 08/15/24 Thu

NIL means there is a worth to an Ivy Degree, but if someone meets or beats that worth, then we've been outbid in a competitive market.
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Bengal
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:52:03 08/14/24 Wed

I have only seen the article’s title. If the point is Ivy degrees are less valued than in the pre-NIL era, this may be so. But I think the analysis should note that this inherently is not entirely an apple to apple comparison of pre and post NIL timeframes. If some of the likes of Calvin Hill, Brian Dowling, iaccavzii, Bjorklund, Dotson, Marinaro, etc into the 2010s would have jumped for the money, than would we say the degree has lost value? Or was its value always going to be limited by the lure of a certain amount of cash, cars, and housing? Impossible to answer but suggest it has some relevance to discussion. Just an idle thought.
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:01:20 08/15/24 Thu

The idea that the cash and gifts didn't exist before NIL is more ostriching.

It just is no longer punishable.

There's a reason for the phrase "Big Man on Campus."

And to be fair, with the advent of app-based sports gambling, it is necessary and inevitable. If the athletes don't get compensated above board... ask BC and CCNY (and even Columbia - remember Jack Molinas?) how the players will get their fair share in other ways.
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Degrees Worthless?


Author:
Bengal
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:22:30 08/15/24 Thu

You are projecting.

Yes, there was cheating pre-NIL. The NIL world, and the transferring you are seeing, is a difference, in terms of the extent of its reach and amount of consideration, in kind not degree from earlier times. Open your eyes.
[> Subject: Other factors to consider related to the Ivy degree


Author:
IvySportsJunkie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:51:51 08/15/24 Thu

One needs to be very careful when making a bold suggestion that the Ivy League degree has become worthless for student athletes.

While securing a path to elite graduate schools and prestigious companies should not be consider one of the primary criteria why to select a college to play sports, the Ivy League's distinct advantages in this respect tend to be viewed as extremely important for so many of our recruited Ivy athletes and their parents. There are numerous lists that highlight which colleges are the best feeder schools to the most selective and prestigious companies and for admissions to the top 10 graduate school programs. The superior success of the Ivy League is indisputable here. To illustrate this point, let’s look at feeder colleges to the top ten MBA programs, which in recent years has become the preferred graduation program for Ivy student athletes to pursue. Top MBA programs are financially attractive to many athletes since the average starting salary and bonus for the graduates from each of the top MBA schools is well over $200K.

Looking at how we place nationally, Forbes recently noted that 23.2% of MBA admits to the Harvard Business School came from one of the Ivies. Likewise, College Confidential looked at the best feeder schools in aggregate for the top 10 MBA programs and found it was dominated by the Ivy League. The Ivies provided 6 of the top 9 MBA feeder schools and all Ivies placed in the top 16. While Stanford, Duke, Cal, and Georgetown made it to the top 10 list of feeder schools, most of the Power 4 Conference universities have dramatically lower chances than our Ivies. When you speak with Ivy athletes, they tend to be well aware of the pronounced preferences for Ivy graduates by the most highly selective companies and by the admissions officers at the most selective graduate schools.

Below is a summary of the number of enrolled students in aggregate to the US Elite MBA programs from the top 16 feeder schools: Harvard (192), UPenn (183), Stanford (117), Yale (113), Princeton (101), Duke (95), Columbia (89), Cal (84), Dartmouth (80), Georgetown (79), Northwestern (67). Cornell (59), Virginia (58), MIT (54), Michigan (49), and Brown (47). This also does not reflect how the Ivy universities have so much smaller student bodies.

While the Ivy League is well behind in the NIL race, we clearly still lead the nation in overall compensation for our graduates.
[> [> Subject: Re: Other factors to consider related to the Ivy degree


Author:
IvySportsJunkie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:43:25 08/16/24 Fri

I should note that I am fully supportive of the Ivy League getting into the NIL game. Yet, when speaking to a number of Ivy student athletes about NIL, they offered one additional strong argument for the intangible value of their Ivy League degree. They pointed out that they loved how their football team consistently has almost no turnover every year and deep bonding amongst the players. They felt this was partially due to the fact that 100% of their team greatly benefits from superior job opportunities and alumni networking. They stressed that even their bench players seem to get just as good summer jobs and post-grad jobs as the starters. In contrast, at most Power 4 football programs, the bench players do not remotely get the same opportunities.

To test this, I looked at the LinkedIn profiles for classes of 2019 and 2020 for a large cross section of Ivy football and basketball players who received very little playing time and then compared this to starters at my hometown Power 4 conference team (in fairness, it was not a Stanford, Duke or Michigan team). There was no comparison in the quality of jobs. The Power 4 conference starters tended to work mostly in service industries with relatively easy access to their entry level jobs compared to Ivy bench players who mostly worked in VC, PE, IB, high tech, and other highly selective organizations and professional fields.

I think you will enjoy doing this test for your Ivy university by comparing our third string to the first string of typical Power 4 conference team. It will reinforce why we have such minimal roster turnover despite lack of scholarships, NIL and other perks.

Our education and enhanced career options clearly remain our most valuable perk for our student athletes.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Other factors to consider related to the Ivy degree


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:59:54 08/16/24 Fri

All this may be true. But two things stand out.

1) Networking < > Education. Most people would admit that alumni networks are more important than curricular mastery in getting the plum jobs described here. It helps to be part of the club.

2) This job data would still hold if the Ivies were playing Division III instead of FCS. The truth of the matter is that without playoffs and NIL/scholarships, we are already closer to D3 than D1. The arguments for keeping up with the Joneses is to avoid the slide to D3 irrelevance. Which may be what the (interim) presidents - and many here - want in the end.


[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.