Another way of looking at it. -- OarClub

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Date Posted: 10:47:39 09/19/08 Fri
Author: Mark D
Subject: Another way of looking at it.
In reply to: Neil 's message, "Re: Tuesday & Wednesday madness too?" on 20:47:22 09/18/08 Thu

I suspect that many of us forget the more mundane aspects of our world, and have never seen large masses of forced human labor at work. Perhaps we like to think that a clever piece of software "creates wealth" Sometimes this very well might be the case. Sometimes... I personally suspect it just helps make things more efficient though. This is different than actually adding or creating. You can only improve efficiency up to a point.

Sure we can argue about how you could waste a gallon of fuel trimming your hedges with a chainsaw. And that just one guy with a pair of sharp hedge clippers could go faster. So surely there isn�t that much human energy included in that oil right? In this instance there is less than 8 hours of human work in that gallon of oil! Problem is that we often don't use this oil efficiently nor economically. Just because we choose to waste it doesn't mean it's devoid of use. Some uses yield more (or less) work per gallon than others.

Have you ever had to dig a ditch? Have you ever seen how much earth a backhoe can move quickly? Perhaps this sort of comparison makes more sense.
I work in a quarry. We use roughly 10 guys total and move roughly 6000 tons of rock from the �face� to finished product in stockpiles. We consume energy in the form of 1300 gallons of fuel, 3000 lbs of explosive (probably equivalent to 350 gallons of fuel) Lots of electricity (The crushing plant runs on electricity) and cases of Mountain Dew and Twinkies. That�s roughly 1 Man hour and 17.5 gallons of fuel to extract and move 60 tons of rock over � a mile. Go grab a hammer and a wheel barrow and see how much rock you can move � a mile in an hour. Don�t forget you must extract it from the face of the cliff also. I�d be surprised if you could extract load, move and be back from a single 250lb wheelbarrow load in 4 hours. The point is that we live in a world where men, carts and oxen are obsolete if not outright IMPOSSIBLE. You could not produce enough rock via human energy (even with an army of slaves) to do even the most minimal maintenance on our roads. That is just maintnence on the roads, aggregate is used for alot more than that.
It's increadible that anyone would fail to see the importance of oil in this equation. I'm sure the definition of wealth can be pretty flexible though... Perhaps you ment wealth as in peace of mind and good health? Or simply just little numbers on a slip of paper, that have no relation to the real world at all? I can assure you if it has *anything* to do with roads, buildings, Infrastructure, construction and transportation you are a lunatic to think energy is indipendent of wealth.

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Replies:

Re: Another way of looking at it. -- RadioRay (- Rapid Transportation is a Hub for Prodictivity), 11:05:39 09/19/08 Fri
Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Owen, 12:12:11 09/20/08 Sat
- Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Jay, 14:45:10 09/20/08 Sat
  - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Owen, 21:29:37 09/20/08 Sat
- Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Mark D, 14:58:18 09/20/08 Sat
  - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Jay, 18:42:59 09/20/08 Sat
    - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Jay, 18:44:06 09/20/08 Sat
      - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Zombi ("The still works."), 07:10:28 09/21/08 Sun
  - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Owen, 21:24:20 09/20/08 Sat
    - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Jay, 21:37:02 09/20/08 Sat
      - Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Owen, 22:36:51 09/20/08 Sat
        Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Mark D, 07:13:43 09/21/08 Sun
        Re: Another way of looking at it. -- Ari, 22:39:39 09/21/08 Sun

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