VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4] ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 08:57:43 08/21/08 Thu
Author: Bill
Subject: Neil's Boat

Hey Neil,

I thought I would start a new thread that was more focused on boat performance and selection. Your original comments are in quotes.

“At this point I am looking to get a boat that I can practice sailing, get to the point I can swap the engine for a yuloh without worrying about my capabilities, and spend frequent weekends around the Channel Islands and maybe, just maybe get to Baja and back (time allowing). It would be GREAT if the boat can be set up to get further afield (Hawaii, S. Pacific) eventually.”

That sounds great. One of the things that Jay talks about is gaining sailing experience without an engine. It sounds like you could just selectively use the engine and end up in the same place but I don’t think it would have worked for me. I would have chickened out many times and fired up the beast if I had the choice and missed out on the very experiences I needed to learn. I had been sailing on and off my whole life but never in charge of my own so I needed the boundaries that come from leaving the engine behind.

My last boat was a Bluenose Sloop. A very capable old one design race boat that was a very small 24 ft. She handles like a sport car and saved my bacon until I could learn enough. So I would strongly advise that you think smallish for your first boat. If you choose wisely that small boat will have capabilities that you won’t outgrow for a very long time.

“I am currently pretty cash-poor. I *might* be able to scratch more together but figured that a cheap sturdy old boat would be a better way in than going for something more exciting. I can always change later, and a cheap boat is going to represent a smaller loss of investment at that point.”

Would you be willing to put a number on “cash poor”? Just saying as cheap as possible makes it hard to offer suggestions.

“This was the reasoning behind my looking at a triton, having read about Atom etc., then the Islander turned up and seemed similar but more "complete" (the triton needs a total new interior). I would probably have gone with the Dolphin if I had got to see it before it sold, without knowing anything about its MORC status as it was already engineless.”

I have looked at a lot of boats over the last three years trying to replace my Bluenose. Very, very few caused me to pause. I do have to say that the Dolphin was one of them. In the Dolphin case you can buy a boat with an incredible pedigree (Olin Stephens and Bill Shaw) for the same kind of money as any ordinary boats. Although there are some drawbacks to keel centerboard boards I think that there is a lot to like. First, I would ignore the owner who said he hardly ever used the centerboard. If that is true he just didn’t care about making way to windward. But the centerboard is a great way to balance the boat on all points of sail and reduces drag as you fall off. The shallow draft is obviously sweet. Although I have never sailed a Dolphin, with a SA/D ratio 17.8 with her working canvas and 22 with her genny I would think she should do just fine. I think she would be a good size to learn on. So if it was me I would log on to their website and keep my eyes open for the next one (and there is always a next one).

“As far as I can see, anything that has a high phrf or SA/disp is a racing boat (at least at the bottom of the market - there are some Olsons and Schocks) and therefore tends to be an old boat with a balsa-cored hull. I am under the impression that this is to be avoided, but if this isn't the case feel free to enlighten me! Also please let me know of any cheap boats with better potential than the ones I am currently looking at. I am hoping to get something in the next month or 2 so I can get out there and start practicing....”

Yea, you pretty much nailed this. One of the things I think is worth mentioning is that most of the boats we are talking about are / were race boats. Even the Triton in her day was design to a racing rule. My beef is that the CCA racing rule doesn’t seem very friendly to engineless sailors.

I do have to confess that there is a lot I like about the older J-Boats. The J-27, J-29 and J-30 look to be great sailing boats that could be used as cruisers. But like you I do worry about their balsa cored hulls. I wouldn’t completely discard them since all boats have trade-offs but I would want to be an expert in understanding their faults.

As far as practice goes… I sailed for years on other peoples boats. If you get an old Triton that needs a whole new interior it could be quite some time before you are obsessively sailing. But walk down to any marina and put your name on the bulletin board and your weekends will quickly become full. You will develop experience in sailing and discover what you do and don’t like about various types of boats.

In the end I think that buying a sailboat is all about sailing and sails. I can't tell you how many boat adds I have read that start out saying how many hours are on the engine. What I want to know is:

At what wind speed does this boat reach hull speed at various points of sail?

How high can she point upwind?

How low a wind can she still make way at various points of sail?

What is her standard sail inventory?

You know you are screwed if the answers are I don't know, and the standard headsail is a 150 or 170.

Don't loose hope but be picky and get a great sailing sailboat.

Cheers, Bill

One more thing. Even though the specs on Jay's old Renegade seem a bit lower than I would like there is something to be said for following success. And you would have a wealth of experience to build on.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.