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• Oderint dum metuant -- wayne, 00:14:33 10/29/02 Tue (ptlddslgw11poold93.ptld.uswest.net/65.102.3.93)
  Attributed to Lucius Accius
  

  
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  • oderint dum metuant: Let them hate so long as they fear. - Lucius Accius - Roman tragic poet (170 BC) Believed to be a favorite saying of Caligula. Also translated as "let them hate us, so long as they fear us". Cicero said it. Seneca rebuked Cicero for saying it

    Here is another good one by William Shakespeare, Cymbeline (Posthumus at II, v)

    Yet 'tis greater skill

    In a true hate to pray they have their will;

    The very devils cannot plague them better. (NT) -- William, 01:37:19 10/29/02 Tue

    • "Atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appelant." "And where they make a wilderness, they call it peace". From Tacitus, "The life of Cnaeus Julius Agricola". Attributed to a British leader, Galgacus, as a commentary on the Roman approach to securing "peace". Let us hope it is not prophetic once more. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:29:27 03/09/03 Sun
  • If it weren't for our resident liguist, William, i would have thought it meant "Order in, dumb mutant." [kust kidding] (NT) -- SurveyGuy (wondering where the rest of Wayne's message is), 11:32:55 10/29/02 Tue
    • See, that's why proofreading is so important... (NT) -- Spock, 17:04:50 10/29/02 Tue
  • Great quote! One of my personal faves! (NT) -- JL, 20:28:06 10/31/02 Thu
    • "Great quote! One of my personal faves!" - and also of Caligula, it seems. He was Rome's most unbalanced Emperor, ever. See http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/caligula-index.html . Dined with his horse, committed incest with 3 sisters. Hope you don't share all his tastes ;-) (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:03:14 03/09/03 Sun
      • Chris, I am certain that JL does NOT share all of Caligula's tastes and I think you knew that before you ever typed those words betraying your sarcasm and wit. (NT) -- William, 21:29:34 03/09/03 Sun
        • I did indeed, that's why I put the little ;-) at the end. I'm sure he doesn't dine with his horse. ;-) (NT) -- Chris Henry, 23:52:06 03/09/03 Sun
          • SHE does not dine with horse or upon horse. ; ) (NT) -- JL, 22:05:13 03/13/03 Thu
      • I could care less for horses, nor have I any sisters. I guess I should be OK. To skew from Camus: Helicon: “It takes one day to make a senator and ten years to make a worker.” Caligula: “But I am afraid that it takes twenty years to make a worker out of a senator.” ; ) (NT) -- JL, 22:00:31 03/13/03 Thu
  • Lucius Accius -- Carol Freundlich, 18:27:58 03/08/03 Sat
    • We disagree, Carol. The diplomat may resign if he wishes but that does not make him right or Presiden Bush wrong. Bush is a far better president than Clinton before him or Jimmy Carter back in the 1970s. As a result of many of Clinton's and Carter's actions we have a mess on our hands which was left by Clinton for the current president, George W. Bush, to clean up. I am grateful that Gore did not win the presidency for I think people would really learn the meaning of fear. He would not have a clue nor would the likes of Tom Daschle and others. (NT) -- William, 23:08:35 03/08/03 Sat
    • It is right and just for the US to take pains to root out terrorists and the regimes which support them. We were attacked before, during, and after 9/11 and there must be steps taken to root out these regimes which support militant terrorists and the thugs they support, train, supply, and will supply. Bush is far more honest, up front, and to the point than that show boat administration before him. That is a welcome change. He might not be perfect and I have disagreements with some of this administration's policies but overall he is a far cry from what the alternative was. (NT) -- William, 23:11:52 03/08/03 Sat
      • Nobody has yet supplied any convincing evidence that Iraq or Saddam Hussein supports Al Qaeda. And as for Osama, he's sitting in his cave, chuckling away, because he attacked the USA but the USA is retaliating against a godless unislamic non-Shariah regime that's number 2 on his hitlist. What a manipulator, we're doing exactly what he wants. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:02:28 03/09/03 Sun
        • Nonsense, Chris! There IS convincing evidence that Saddam Hussein/Iraq has been and is dealing with al Qaeda. Nevertheless that is not the most important point. The point is that Iraq IS a regime which DOES support, provide training, money, and personnel for terrorists and terrorist activities. They have been providing materials, money, and training for suicide bombers who kill Israeli children. They provide training for terrorists near Baghdad including on a facility equipped with an airline fuselage on which terrorists are trained to hijack and/or attack aircraft as was done on 9/11. (NT) -- William, 02:08:35 03/09/03 Sun
        • There is evidence that Iraqis were working together with al Qaeda and related groups to attack the Alfred P. Murray Federal Building in Oklahoma City 1995. Also, Abu Nidal, one of the most feared and brutal terrorist leaders of the 1980s and early 1990s was welcome in Baghdad for medical attention. When asked by Saddam to train al Qaeda members Abu Nidal refused and was murdered at Saddam's order. There is more than this but that is enough for now. (NT) -- William, 02:12:27 03/09/03 Sun
          • This all sounds like more of the famous and unconvincing Powell and Blair "dossiers". Unfortunately, even with 100+ inspectors crawling all over Iraq, presumably guided by US and UK intelligence, no tangible evidence has been found. Hence the high level of world-wide disbelief. Nobody had problems believing the 1962 Cuba evidence, there were photos for all to see. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:12:42 03/09/03 Sun
            • It is also obvious, based on your comment about Collin Powell's testimony, that you choose to devalue the information he presented. That definitely reveals your bias against Powell, the Bush administration, and the United States and your favoritism for Blix, the UN Inspectors, the UN Security Council members opposing action against Saddam, and your favoritism of Saddam himself. Powell offered legitimate evidence against Saddam and Iraq and you and others chose to discount it as was done during the build up of Nazism and the German war machine in the 1930s. History is repeating itself again. (NT) -- William, 15:18:17 03/09/03 Sun
            • Chris, it seems that you do not understand the purpose of the inspections. The UN inspectors are not there to play detective or to take part in an Easter Egg hunt or a "Where's Elmo" hunt. The Iraqis are supposed to disarm and show the inspectors when, how, and where they disarmed. They have not done this. They are in material breach of the cease fire agreement the Iraqis signed in 1991 and Iraq is also in violation of UN resolution 1441. The inspectors are not supposed to find the weapons. (NT) -- William, 15:26:13 03/09/03 Sun
            • Nevertheless there has been tangible evidence found of weapons. There have been numerous shells found which the Iraqis played the part of the surprised with "Gee, how did that get there?". There has been evidence found of nuclear weapons programs as recently as 2002. Blix himself failed to tell of the unmanned drone which Iraq has and which was buried in Blix's report and Blix failed to mention the drums and sprayers which can be used to deliver chemical and biological weapons which Iraq has. (NT) -- William, 15:28:05 03/09/03 Sun
            • You mention photos of Cuba from the Missile Crisis. Have you failed to notice the photos of Iraqis moving materials from buildings known to house WMDs? Have you failed to notice recorded conversations among Iraqis signaling one another of Inspectors coming and to move the materials? Have you failed to notice the scientists and military officers who defected and revealed the breaches of Iraq in their WMD program and the fact that it is confirmed that Iraq is hiding these weapons, have shipped a good portion of them to Syria, Libya, and elsewhere while they had plenty of time to do so, etc.? (NT) -- William, 15:35:52 03/09/03 Sun
              • "Methinks she doth protest too much" - Shakespeare, Hamlet. I wish I got this rate of return on my mutual funds. I especially like the one about Oklahoma. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 23:55:18 03/09/03 Sun
                • Chris, thanks for your reply. The quote from Shakespeare's "Hamlet", Act III, Scene 2, is not "Me thinks she doth protest too much" but "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". It was spoken by the queen to her son while they observe a play taking place on a stage. The character in the play was denying something, the same way Saddam Hussein, the UN, and the anti-US and anti-war factions are doing today. (NT) -- William, 14:24:01 03/10/03 Mon
        • OK, so those 'suicide bomber training camps' are just for fun. Like the Boy Scouts or 4H. And the 'reward' $$$? When will you all figure out that it is NOT numerous separate wars but the SAME war? GEEZ! (NT) -- JL (head is sore from hitting all the brick walls trying to reason with these ... ), 22:12:03 03/13/03 Thu
      • So which country is more liable to supply nuclear weapons to terrorists - Iraq, just certified as having no nuclear program, or North Korea, which tells everyone about theirs? That's why Bush plans to attack the former, but believes we can deal with the latter "thru diplomacy". Go figure. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:17:53 03/09/03 Sun
        • Chris, who is certifying Iraq as having no nuclear weapons program? Hans Blix? There has been evidence of Saddam's nuclear weapons program as recently as year 2002 and even recently. There are numerous military officers and scientists who have defected who have given testimony that Saddam is working on WMDs including biological weapons, chemical weapons, and nuclear weapons. (Click for more) -- William, 02:32:58 03/09/03 Sun
          • Two days ago, the Inspectors' report in the UN Security Council. Of course, you can choose to disbelieve them. But in that case, who are you going to believe? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:05:58 03/09/03 Sun
            • Blix has already revealed a bias in his reporting and has extended beyond his role as chief inspector by injecting conjecture and theory into his interpretations of Iraq's weapons and their intended use as well as his interpretation of such subjects as aluminum tubes, chemicals, shells, movement of materials and satellite photographs of said recorded activity. I believe Collin Powell, Condaleezza Rice, and George W. Bush, George Tenet, and others before I would believe Hans Blix or Saddam Hussein, and I would believe the Bush administration before I would believe Saddam Hussein. (NT) -- William, 15:11:08 03/09/03 Sun
              • William, it's strange how much I, Hans Blix, everyone except you in fact, is "biased". That's worth pondering for a minute. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 23:49:45 03/09/03 Sun
                • Chris, don't cry and please stop exaggerating. I never said "everyone" is bias, you said that. I never said I was not or am not bias, you said that. I am bias about a great many things. I support the president regarding Iraq and Saddam Hussein. I am pro-life and I oppose abortion. I am bias toward parents raising children at home and not farming them out to day care, preschool, etc. This does contribute to the deterioration in the fabric of our society in a number of levels for children do not bond as stronly with their parents and have a more fractured upbrining through this practice. (NT) -- William, 14:39:19 03/10/03 Mon
                • I favor extended breastfeeding babies over formula/bottle feeding. I am bias against much of what passes for "music." I favor Latin, Classical, Jazz, Rock, Country, Cajun, Hawaiian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese and a few other forms of music over hip-hop, rap, and heavy metal. I am have a bias for Indian, Chinese, Thai, Italian, Burmese, Vietnamese, and a few other forms or styles of food over McDonald's, meat and potatoes, etc. I definitely have my own biases. In the case of the UN weapons inspectors, Hans Blix is overstepping his role as chief inspector and siding with Iraq and the French. (NT) -- William, 14:46:07 03/10/03 Mon
    • Kiesling/Oderint dum metuant -- Kim, 07:20:01 03/10/03 Mon
      • Kim, thanks for the "suggestion" but I read that article a few days ago already. Nevertheless, people throughout history have had feelings or made decisions as Kielsing have made and in some cases they later regretted their decision and realized they were wrong and in other cases they were happy that they made such a decision. Bush is the president and he is responsible for protecting US citizens, not the UN, not Turkey, not France, who helped with Afghanistan by providing 4,500 troops and whose General Lafayette helped the Colonies in their fight against British. (NT) -- William, 14:53:20 03/10/03 Mon

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• reggie bryants degree -- John, 20:12:00 06/16/03 Mon (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Reggie Bryant has a bachelor's and master's degree from Temple U. No doctorate. For additional details see the following site. http://www.delleast.org/instructors.html
  
  Reggie is always very antagonistic when people ask him about his credentials and he never corrects them when they call him doctor. I think he's a real phoney. He loves to say "it's not what you know that hurts you, but what you know that just ain't so". What a hypocrite.
  

  
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• This is a phenomenon which I think warrants addressing and concern. -- William, 10:12:00 11/25/02 Mon (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)
  
  Although some of the harassed in this article are Christians, I do not think that this phenomomenon is directed soley toward Christians, nor do I think that their being Christians justifies their unjust and reprehensible treatment.
  
  

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  Pastor and Christian Camp Face Human Rights Charges over Moral Principles
  
  Harassment by Canadian Human Rights Tribunals Increasing Over Homosexual Issue
  
  RED DEER, AB, November 22, 2002 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Cases of harassment and economic penalties imposed upon Canadian Christians who speak out against the social, medical and spiritual dangers of homosexuality are on the rise. LifeSite has learned of two more cases of such harassment by human rights tribunals.
  
  MP Vic Toews, the Justice critic for the Canadian Alliance has called on the Manitoba Government to "immediately move to clarify the law to ensure that religious organizations are not singled out because of their moral position on homosexuality." The Provencher MP points out that Camp Arnes, a camp on Lake Winnipeg run by the Mennonite Brethren Church of Manitoba, is facing a challenge under the Manitoba Human Rights Act for denying access to the camp to the Winnipeg Gay and Lesbian Choir. The Act says that groups or individuals cannot be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation.
  
  In a related case in Alberta, Rev. Stephen Boissoin is facing a human rights complaint brought by homosexual activist and University of Calgary professor Dr. Darren Lund. Rev. Boissoin, an outstanding citizen who for nine years ran an outreach to troubled youth that had 100-150 teens who would frequent it weekly, raised the ire of homosexual activists with a letter to the editor of a local paper which served as a wakeup call to parents regarding homosexual activism in schools. Lund accused Rev. Boissoin of hatemongering in comments to the press and when a local teen was beaten by hooligans supposedly because of his homosexual inclinations, Rev. Boissoin's letter was blamed.
  
  Boissoin's damaged reputation caused the loss of funding to his youth outreach which was forced to close due to lack of funds. Now Boissoin is faced with retaining a lawyer to defend himself against the human rights complaint.
  
  At least 6 mayors across the country have been reprimanded and some fined - one as much as $10,000 - for refusing to proclaim 'gay pride day'. Ontario printer Scott Brockie was fined for refusing to print homosexual activist material, and a man (Hugh Owens) has been fined for a newspaper ad quoting the Bible on homosexuality. These and many other incidents have become part of a growing harassment of Christians in Canada over this issue. A dangerous denial of traditional democratic rights of religious belief and free speech has become pervasive.
  

  
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  • Homophobic Reverend -- Does it really matter, 17:22:04 11/28/02 Thu
    • And your source for this character assasination is .... ? Exaggerated future projections tend to discredit what you post (much like Tom Daschle's harangues). Religious freedom is also a victim here. Anyone care to sort this out?> (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:55:36 11/28/02 Thu
    • author:Does it really matter
      yes, it does.... own your words... (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 02:36:15 12/01/02 Sun
    • couple of mysteries solved:
      1) the poster is most likely Tanner Waldo link
      this post is a verbatim quote from his weblog...
      2) Rev. Boissoin runs the center, which is also a church supported by other churches
      so I would say "get your own venue if you don't like him"
      3) from Google I can conclude this guy isn't even Fred "godhatesfags.com" Phelps, let alone Hitler..
      4) his website (thesermonator.com) is down, he's resigned from the local Christian Coalition
      and he's defending himself against 2 lawsuits... (NT) -- H_Bergeron (Google is my friend), 03:17:27 12/01/02 Sun
  • camp arnes debate -- Tony, 09:12:55 12/07/02 Sat
  • further info regarding "Camp Arnes" -- Tony, 09:18:23 12/07/02 Sat

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• In honor of SurveyGuy -- William, 12:15:42 11/10/02 Sun (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  
  
  In honor of SurveyGuy, who has been a driving force in maintaining this message board which I and others enjoy partaking in, and whose posts are normally terse, insightful, and thought provoking, I present this tid bit from "the Bard" himself.
  
  Since brevity is the soul of wit... I will be brief...
  
  From Shakespeare's Hamlet.
  
  Spoken by Polonius Act II Scene ii, line 96
  

  
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  • What?! No cash award with this honor? (NT) -- SG, 09:14:39 11/11/02 Mon
    • 'Tis true 'tis a pity, and 'tis a pity 'tis true.... (NT) -- Spock (further channeling Polonius), 12:51:13 11/11/02 Mon
    • No legacy is so rich as honesty. ('All's Well that Ends Well' ... Act 3 Scene 5) (NT) -- JL :), 18:58:07 11/12/02 Tue
  • God, I want to barf! (NT) -- Rolf, 19:00:08 11/11/02 Mon
    • Hmmm, I don't think that's from one of the Bard's plays. Was that from one of the sonnets? It doesn't sound Elizabethan. (NT) -- SG, 20:34:54 11/11/02 Mon
      • Definitely missing that iambic pentameter....Perhaps the full phrasing goes "God, I want to barf into my shoe!/To wit I surely have naught else to do!" (NT) -- Spock (yeah, that fits), 11:25:53 11/12/02 Tue
        • Excellent interpretation. Methinks this humorous exchange is going over the heads of some visitors. It is good to not take ourselves seriously on a slow news day. (NT) -- SG, 15:42:53 11/12/02 Tue
      • I think he meant he wants to eat the Indian dessert, Barfi! (NT) -- William, 13:29:02 11/12/02 Tue
        • I am unfamiliar with that dish. Is it one of those sweet rice and coconut dishes or what? I have never tried Indian cooking, but did take a vegetarian course from an Indian woman with a Ph.D. in biology so I learned a little about her cuisine. Lots of cutting up for that style of cooking. (NT) -- SG, 17:40:24 11/12/02 Tue
          • SurveyGuy, here inside this message subject link is a recipe for "Barfi" an Indian fudge candy treat. I do enjoy Indian food very much. An Indian desert I enjoy very much is "Gulab Juman" which is milk ball in rose water, or a form of sweet syrup. It is sweet and often served warm. I enjoy Mango Ice Cream, Mango Lassi drink (not an alcoholic beverage. I don't drink any alcohol whatsoever), and I enjoy mango chutney with some dishes, such as some finger foods like Vegetable Samosa, patada wada, and others. I hope you, and anyone else here who choses to try it, enjoy it. -- William, 13:37:55 11/20/02 Wed
            • Thanks. It certainly is a simple recipe. I can see how a mango would go with it. Sort of like peaches and cream, only sweeter. (NT) -- SG (reposted), 22:48:43 11/20/02 Wed

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• Why does it give such joy to pick on the French? -- SurveyGuy, 16:22:17 02/19/03 Wed (maxtnt03-287.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.231.33)
  
  
  
  

  
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  • I dunno -- call it "joie de vie," I guess? (NT) -- Spock, 17:07:52 02/19/03 Wed
  • Do you remember what several of us said here about two years ago? We said that the US should attack France. Now it is more true than ever before. They are hypocrites. They destroyed a ship which went to protest the French testing nuclear devices in Tahiti. They used military force in the Ivory Coast without UN approval, did the same to Vietnam, Africa, Algeria, and elsewhere. They are hypocrites, anti-Semites, socialists, communists, and racists. The belief that Europe, and France itself is somehow superior to the US, even in the area of racism, is a farce. (NT) -- William, 22:07:03 02/19/03 Wed
    • Talking about hypocrisy and sinking ships, do you remember when USS Liberty was attacked in 1967 with the loss of 34 American lives, watched by one of our surveillance aircraft flying overhead? Do you want us to declare war on Israel? How about the country that illegally captured USS Pueblo? The same one that is now sticking a finger up at us, Japan, South Korea? Are we going to attack them? Not on your life, far too dangerous, let's indulge them like spoilt children, we only want to attack weak countries where we have a chance of winning. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:56:55 03/04/03 Tue
      • Your account of the USS Liberty attack is bias and flawed at best. The USS Liberty attack was a mistake. The Israelis were being fired upon by a ship in the region and thought it was the Liberty. There was an Egyptian ship in the area and it was possible Israel thought this was that ship. The US Navy itself also investigated and determined that it was a mistake. Israel did compensate the US for this error and loss of life. During the Gulf War there were dozens of soldiers injured or killed by "friendly fire." (NT) -- William, 02:37:58 03/08/03 Sat
      • In Iraq our own jets fired on and brought down two of our own helicopters. It happens during a war. USS Liberty was fired upon on day four of the six day war of 1967. I question your claim that there was US surveillance aircraft in the area watching the whole event. At that time the US did not with to provoke the Soviet Union and tried to stay out of the region.

        Regarding North Korea: Have you noticed that China, Japan, and South Korea have been doing virtually nothing to control North Korea? Has the whole world gone to sleep? (NT) -- William, 02:49:14 03/08/03 Sat

      • I have more about North Korea in this sub page. Just click on this text. Before I move there, however, regarding Israel again, think about it, Chris. The US is/was Israel's closest friend and supporter then in 1967. Do you really think that Israel would actually attack the US and make an enemy out of their own, lone ally when the Soviet Union, Europe, and Arabia were chomping at the bit to destroy Israel and Jews? I don't think so. -- William, 03:14:53 03/08/03 Sat
  • In the US blacks for one group, do much better than anywhere in the world, including Africa, and including France. I think we should attack France and Germany then attack Iraq. As Bush said about one year ago, if you are not with us in the war on terrorism, then you are against us. Germany had more than 80 companies which supplied Saddam Hussein with his weapons and France has been doing business with Iraq for a very long time and has a lot of money tied up in Iraq. Thank God that Israel had enough sense to destroy the French built Iraqi Nuclear power center! (NT) -- William, 22:08:23 02/19/03 Wed
    • In the immortal words of Peter Sellers, "There is a 'bum' in your 'rum.'" (NT) -- Spock, 15:17:19 02/20/03 Thu
      • Hi, Spock! It is good to see you posting again. I enjoy this forum and it is a lot more fun when people actually interact here. This past two weeks has been fun because Vince, H Bergeron, JL, SurveyGuy, you, Pat, Surf, and I don't remember who else, actually stopped by, increasing comments here at this forum. ... By the way, Spock, I need some snow removal done at our home here. Do you know anyone who will do it for us? (NT) -- William, 18:02:14 02/20/03 Thu
        • I think there's a guy in your mirror who could do it...(he'll certainly get there faster than the city, anyway) (NT) -- Spock, 13:07:06 02/25/03 Tue
  • Maybe because we have no retort to others who would do so? CESM!!! (NT) -- JL (LMAO!!!), 23:01:30 02/20/03 Thu
    • Y'know, the rench guy in the cartoon resembles Inspector Clouseau. Good to have you guys around here. Hope all has been well. I've been busy so I expect everyone to disappear for a while now and then. Lots of lurkers on this board and they are very welcome. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:03:31 02/21/03 Fri
      • Hi there! Could it be the Durante-like schnozz that causes us to make that connection? Naaaaa. ; ) I came home just in time for all this nice weather we are having. In a way it is a good thing for me as it inspires me to stay home and tackle many unattended chores. BTW... -- JL, 13:35:36 02/22/03 Sat
        • spill it on the tea party -- don't know that one yet (NT) -- Spock, 13:11:33 02/25/03 Tue
          • The Great American Tea Party 2003 (NT) -- JL, 18:46:08 02/25/03 Tue
        • Hilarioso! I guess the only parts I'm skeptical about are what this would do to the sewers on down to their outlets. Plus I live in an apartment...with certain restrictions on what's flushable, ie, if it ain't toilet paper, don't. But, I can easily go along with not purchasing anything new with French or Germany origins. I hesitate on buying only American, though: unfortunately, many American products often leave quality wanting. (NT) -- Spock, 11:07:40 02/26/03 Wed
          • Zut!!! I live in an apartment also. Guess I'd better remove Le Grey Poupon from le jar before I flush, eh? Sadly, I also have problems with many American-made goods. But I can get by without the few items I do buy from unfriendly foreigners like France, Germany, Vermont, and Kalifornia. (NT) -- JL, 19:03:21 02/27/03 Thu
  • Probably because it's easier to attack a person than to attack his arguments, as illustrated by this hilarious cartoon and the profoundly witty "cheese eating surrender monkeys" insult. It's really upsetting when people want to stop us doing something stupid, just ask the next 5-year-old you see having a tantrum. Problem is, most people outside this continent agree with the French. Perhaps we should declare war on them all. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:37:19 03/04/03 Tue
    • "most people outside this continent agree with the French" Chris, you have offered no proof to support your allegations claiming that most people outside of this continent agree with the French. The anti-America brain dead crowd repeat this claim ad nauseum with not proof to support it. The voices of those who agree with the USA are not carried over the national and international news media as well as the anti-US sentiment is mainly because these people are not given the same voice. (NT) -- William, 20:37:32 03/09/03 Sun
    • There are millions of people in Iran, who have been protesting in the millions on virtually a daily basis for regime change and for a government and business to interact with the US and for support of the US, Iraq, in which dissent is silenced, and elsewhere throughout the world who do agree with the US and appreciate the US presence on this planet for they know what would become of them were the US to disappear. (NT) -- William, 20:42:16 03/09/03 Sun
    • This is espeically true of Europe whose very existence is possible only because the US actually protected them. Nevertheless the majority of the people are not always right or correct and this is what separates a leader from someone who is not a leader. Sometimes a leader must do what they know to be right and just no matter the numbers who oppose him. Regarding your idea about a five year old and their temper tantrum, this is the role of France, Iraq, and a few others. (NT) -- William, 20:52:28 03/09/03 Sun
    • The US itself has displayed great restraint since 9/11 and has not rushed to war against Iraq but has taken pains to gain the support of the UN security council and gave Saddam numerous chances to redeem himself which he has not done.

      It is remarkable to observe how Saddam Hussein and others of his ilk are given a free pass while the US President, George W. Bush and GB Prime Minister Blair and others are given the third degree. Saddam is the wacko here, not Bush and Blair. The UN and the brain dead anti-America and blame America crowd are his enablers and enablers of others like him. (NT) -- William, 21:11:43 03/09/03 Sun

    • Regarding this statement of your Chris: " most people outside this continent agree with the French. Perhaps we should declare war on them all." That statement speaks volumes to the emptiness of your position. It cheapens your claim to any semblence of reality or grasp of the facts and leaves you with not a leg to stand on. Of course we are not going to make war on them all and to suggest that we would is absurd. Don't be a jerk! (NT) -- William, 21:20:08 03/09/03 Sun
      • William, it is regrettable that you have to be insulting. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:37:58 03/10/03 Mon
      • Well perhaps, instead of being gratuitously insulting, you could explain the consistency of your argument that we should attack the French for disagreeingwith us, but not other countries that disagree also. And please try to do so without calling me names. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:43:27 03/10/03 Mon

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• Dissent is un-patriotic -- Matthew, 22:31:22 04/09/03 Wed (CPE0050e4399251-CM014260032914.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com/24.114.190.2)
  [> [> [> [> [> [> It is also obvious, based on your comment about Collin Powell's testimony, that you choose to devalue the information he presented. That definitely reveals your bias against Powell, the Bush administration, and the United States and your favoritism for Blix, the UN Inspectors, the UN Security Council members opposing action against Saddam, and your favoritism of Saddam himself. Powell offered legitimate evidence against Saddam and Iraq and you and others chose to discount it as was done during the build up of Nazism and the German war machine in the 1930s. History is repeating itself again. -- William, 15:18:17 03/09/03 Sun (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  
  In response to that message:
  
  
  Uh huh.....number one: it is interesting to see that you think that any question of our nation's leadership, especially that of our 'commander-in-cheif' is un-patriotic and anti-American. Did Chris question the moral fabric of our entire country? No. Did he say he hates everything American? Apple pie? Baseball? No. Did he say he was happy that 9-11 happened. No. And yet you don't hesistate to call him an ally of evil by saying he supports Osama. All he did was question about wheter our not this country, 'of the people, by the people, for the people', was really doing what is in our best interests. Liberating Afganistan was in our interests, as well as those os others. But how about now? I'm not so sure anymore. Our country was founded by descent. The Boston tea party was seen as a 'terrorist act' by the British crown, and there weren't even any lives lost. Dissent is not only not un-patriotic, its what formed our nation. Would you prefer to be living under a British royal crown?
  
  Number two: Where were we in 1939 anyway? We were profiting off of the deaths of others by selling weapons to the desperate Europeans caught under Hitler's jackboot. We knew there was trouble, but we didn't want to get involved. We were looking out for our own interests. Not until Dec. 7 1941 did we do anything...all it took was an attack against us at Pearl Harbor
  
  I think that Bush was way to reckless when trying to gain support for the action in Iraq from the U.N. They didn't immedietly click their heels together and say 'yes sir Mr. President', and instead opted to take a small amount of time to try and do things right. We could have hade support from the entire world. Instead he dismissed the authority of the U.N., which is the best chance this world has at getting along with itself, and he may have well said "screw you guys, your totally wrong, we are totally right, and we are going to do what ever the hell we feel like, 'cause we are better than you"
  And even if America is the best country in the world, and I always believed that it was, you just don't go saying those things...ESPECIALLY when you are the Superpower that everyone looks to for support and guidance. Now the administration has succeeded in pissing of more than half of the world, and they don't seem to care, because 'we are more important than you'. Would you appreciate that kind of talk directed at you?
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

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• " A picture is worth a thousand words" -- William, 04:13:14 10/08/02 Tue (cache-mtc-ah04.proxy.aol.com/64.12.96.169)
  Here is a glimpse of what members of the "Religion of Peace", living here in the United States, really think about you and me.

  This is not intended as a joke or a prank

  Warning: Obscene content!

  
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • According to this pic, it is one single "member," not "members." And in your zeal to paint Muslims with broad and unjust brushstrokes, it must be pointed out that the attitude expressed inthe pic is NOT reflective of all Muslim people. I know many Muslim people living in this country and they are as peaceful as anyone. It's like saying that all black people or American Indians are lazy, shiftless, and prone to criminal behavior. We shouldn't mischaracterize whole races and creeds based on some examples ugly behavior. I would expect better judgment from supposedly intelligent people. (NT) -- Richard, 18:27:44 10/08/02 Tue
    • Not one -- many, but clearly not all. If you do not think that at least 10% of the "peaceful" Muslims in the U.S. do not harbor the attitude depicted, then you are just deluding yourself. No one used the word "all" except you. You can't get away with trying to change other's words around here. Are you arguing that the young man in the picture is the only Muslim who has that attitude? You did say "one." If he is not the only one, then "members" is quite accurate, hmmmm? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:51:58 10/08/02 Tue
      • Please reread his post carefully... it clearly said "members," which is plural, meaning more than one. I'm not arguing for anything but clarity. However, based on that poster's archival record, he has displayed quite a bit of negativity toward Muslims in general, based only on what a few thousand out of the hundreds of millions of the world Muslim population have done. I'd like to read that distinction acknowledged for a change. (NT) -- Richard, 23:24:57 10/08/02 Tue
        • "Here is a glimpse of what members of the "Religion of Peace", living here in the United States, really think about you and me." That is what it says. If you wish to think that all members of the Religion of Peace are hateful, spiteful, and desire to murder United States citizens and Jews, then go ahead. If it makes you feel better, read it this way: "Here is a glimpse of what many members of the "Religion of Peace" here in the United States really think about you and me". Many are here to slaughter U. S. citizens. They are bloodthirsty, hateful, and homicidal. Feel better now? (NT) -- William, 05:12:39 10/09/02 Wed
          • Are sweeping generalizations acceptable among intelligent people? -- Richard, 07:56:36 10/09/02 Wed
            • No one said all. Use of a plural does not imply all. You said "one." That is clearly wrong. Semantic games. Now you finally admit that there ARE 10-20,000 "vocally comitted." Seems that a plural makes sense. Please note that not a single Muslim vendor has been attacked here or anywhere, yet Jews on campuses have been attacked by Muslim students. Far too many examples to ignore. No sweeping generalization here except those you infer, yet were not implied. 20,000 or 100,000 fanatics trying to kill innocents supports the use of a plural "s." (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 10:01:58 10/09/02 Wed
              • Again, let's read EVERY word more carefully, please! -- Richard, 12:30:03 10/09/02 Wed
                • I think you will find Jihadism far more pervasive than you think. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:51:25 10/09/02 Wed
                  • I must disagree with you! Mother Theresa's nuns and Homeschoolers are the most dangerous and evil people in the world! Muslims are the most pure, the most chaste, the most loving, compassionate, and peaceful! Even the Muslims who plan to slaughter United States citizens and Jews in their Jihad, are so sweet and holy! (NT) -- William, 02:45:41 10/10/02 Thu
                    • But the most annoying at Johovah's Witnesses. (NT) -- SG, 10:02:57 10/10/02 Thu
            • When they are proven to be true time and time again...yes. Please direct us to the link of the picture where these peaceful, terrorist-hating muslims are giving the finger to somebody besides US. Please direct us to links showing outrage for not only attacks against us and Israel, but against those within our borders who espouse such vile acts. Show me the outrage. I have been waiting for over a year to see and/or see or hear it. (NT) -- JL, 20:39:08 10/09/02 Wed
              • The reason the peaceful Muslims are afraid to speak out is thatthey are afraid. Remember Salmon Rushdi on whom the peace loving Ayatollah's put out a death warrant for writing a book? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 23:00:49 10/09/02 Wed
                • What you said is an absolute and irrefutable fact! As recently as this month Yassar Arafat had some more Palestinians murdered. These people were chosen on such criteria as: They were a threat to his position; they disagreed with him; they wanted peace with Israel. The Muslim fanatics have gone after their own because they were not Militant enough or because they did not hate Jews or US citizens or because they did speak out against their Jihad. (NT) -- William, 02:40:10 10/10/02 Thu
                • It appears that our countrymen and women, including the two congresspersons who spoke against our president from inside Iraq but sided with Saddam Hussein, cliaming that they don't trust President Bush but that we should give Saddam Hussein the benefit of the doubt, overlook these things. (NT) -- William, 02:41:56 10/10/02 Thu
                • You surely ARE 100% on this one. But wouldn't that be like me having to be fearful of, say, you? And maybe William, Spock, or 'H' turning my card for speaking my mind? Yes, we certainly need to be more understanding and accepting of a culture such as that. islum (sic) - the religion of peace and love. (NT) -- JL, 19:16:16 10/17/02 Thu
  • Blahblahblah...All I can say to our friend in the picture is "Right back atcha!" (And ditto for any other similarly-sentimented MEMBERS of Al Qaeda & the Islamic faith.) (NT) -- Spock (vocally committed to America, its Constitution, and its PATRIOTS), 12:19:44 10/09/02 Wed
    • Why would you lower yourself to his level with that form of vulgar expression? (NT) -- Mary Katherine, 17:35:46 10/09/02 Wed
      • Because they are evil, murdering muthafukkas who wish to do us great harm. Toughen up Mary Katherine. You probably have a good and noble heart, but we need Rosie the Riveters now...not pansies. (NT) -- JL, 20:45:06 10/09/02 Wed
        • "More baseless preaching that won't go without rejoinder" Do these comments qualify as well? -- Richard, 23:27:14 10/09/02 Wed
          • One word: CONTEXT. It's a good thing. (NT) -- Spock (with special thanks to Martha Stewart), 14:13:03 10/11/02 Fri
            • I guess that since there wasn't the (NT) at the end of the post, you didn't remember to click on the link to get the rest of the message, which would have provided all the context you would have needed. Then your weak attempt at being a wise ass would have been unnecessary. (NT) -- Richard, 23:16:08 10/11/02 Fri
              • Oh, I read them all, thanks, including my own contributions therein. I maintain my statement. These statements IN CONTEXT mean something different from plucking them out and hanging them randomly. You've cited circumstantial evidence, not didactic. BTW how does calling me a wise-ass put you on the high road, when you never took the time to understand what I was saying? (NT) -- Spock, 13:53:34 10/14/02 Mon
        • Hi JL. It seems that some people STILL can't handle the truth!!! (NT) -- pat, 13:49:21 10/10/02 Thu
          • Hey there pat! Hope you have been well. No, they can't...but they sure are amusing. They are just frantic at this point. Yet nothing to contribute...only the same old vitriol - repackaged. Guess that fax machine is stuck on 'resend'. Nothing new to see here, folks...let's move along. (NT) -- JL ; ), 22:34:26 10/11/02 Fri
  • Actually, I agree with him. I feel exactly the same way about the media. Now, he ought to see a pic of what I think of him and his ilk. Now THAT might be deemed 'obscene'. (NT) -- JL, 20:02:22 10/09/02 Wed

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• New Forums -- Surf, 06:21:12 08/11/03 Mon (pool-151-197-124-167.phil.east.verizon.net/151.197.124.167)
  

  You can visit the new location of this forum
  
  at www.PhillyTalk.com/forums 

  
  

  This forum will be locked but remain as an archive
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

  ---

• Worthwhile viewing, if you haven't seen the Flash presentation to which this article refers. About 3 MB, so better with a fast connect. Links on page give lots of choices of source. -- SurveyGuy, 19:49:33 08/10/03 Sun (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  ON THE HOME FRONT
  
  Web presentation honors
  U.S. troops
  
  Americans applaud patriotic tribute in midst of anti-war sentiment
  
  

  ---

  ON THE HOME FRONT
  Posted: August 9, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
  By Carrie Olson © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  When Todd Clegg created a
  patriotic Web presentation for a coworker serving in Afghanistan, he had no idea his work would serve as a rallying point for many Americans wishing to show their support for the troops amid anti-war protests.
  
  The moving presentation, which features photographs of service men and women alternating with text written by Clegg, serves as a tribute to heroes of the past and present who have sacrificed in service to their country.
  
  The photographs depict scenes from D-Day, the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima, the September 11 attacks and the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.
  
  Clegg's presentation struck a chord with a broad base of the American public and military forces, and has created a rallying point for perhaps over a million supporters of U.S. troops.
  
  "The first week it was out I received 400 to 500 e-mails a day. After that it was about 50-100 a day. Now I still get 20-40 e-mails a day," Clegg told WorldNetDaily.
  
  His presentation garnered a widespread audience just as the war in Iraq spurred anti-war protests and heated debate about the legitimacy of U.S. involvement in the Gulf.
  
  Clegg released the tribute in March during the third week of the war in Iraq. He felt the need to encourage America's soldiers because he saw a prevailing sentiment against the war.
  
  "I had been collecting photos off the Web for some time; it just seemed like the right time to do it, especially when the sentiment was against the war and a little bit against the troops," Clegg explained.
  
  After two weeks of assembling the presentation and editing a soundtrack, Clegg sent the link to a coworker serving in Afghanistan.
  
  Originally, Clegg did not intend the presentation for widespread circulation, so it came as a surprise when the demand for the tribute bogged down the server of his employer, Press-A-Print International.
  
  The original recipients of the presentation sent the link to their friends and family who, in turn, sent the link to others. The result was a snowball effect that put an overwhelming demand on the company's server.
  
  "When the snowball first happened, they thought it was some sort of cyber attack," Clegg recalled with a chuckle.
  
  The demand became so great Clegg had to pull the link from the Net temporarily. On the webpage, he explained why the tribute was unavailable and invited others to assist him in hosting the presentation.
  
  When numerous offers to host the tribute came in from all over the Web, Clegg sent the files out and posted the links to these mirror sites at the original address. A partial list remains on the site, although more mirror sites have been added since the page was updated a month ago.
  
  Many who view the presentation e-mail Clegg with requests for a copy on compact disc to be shown at military conventions and memorials. He tries to keep up with the requests for copies and continues to respond to the thousands of e-mails that have poured into his inbox.
  
  Said Clegg: "Thousands of people have e-mailed me, and those are the ones who took the time to write. I never put a counter on the site, but I would say the number of viewers is in the millions by now."
  
  Clegg works as the website administrator and information technology manager at Press-A-Print International, a promotional product firm specializing in printed advertising products.
  
  Go to the page listing the links that can be used to view the presentation.
  
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • "The photographs depict scenes from D-Day, the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima, the September 11 attacks and the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq." So why not photos of My Lai, Mogadishu, the Teheran Rescue debacle? Because propagandists have to be very selective, Dr. Goebells taught them that. Then all they need are lots of pathetic, gullible people who miss the fairy stories their Mummy and Daddy used to tell them. Growing up is painful. (NT) -- John Bull, 15:19:00 08/12/03 Tue

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• Cartoonist Auth-- echos of Nazi-ism? -- SurveyGuy, 21:23:57 08/04/03 Mon (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  This was posted on the Rant 'n Rave board. I thought visitors here would find this interesting.
  
  Date Posted: 20:43:42 08/04/03 Mon
  Author: Alex C
  Subject: Local Talk & Local Cartoonist coverage
  
  I've been out of town, and haven't listened to local talk lately. Has this http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7729_Echoes_of_Nazism
  been discussed by any local talk host?
  It's a cartoon drawn by the Inquirer's Tom Auth. It was pretty harsh when seen on it's own. But when compared to 1930's Nazi propaganda, it looks, ahem, "coincidental".
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I interpret the cartoon attributed to Tony Auth as Israelis and Jews fencing Arabs in, in this case, Palestinian Arabs. Israel and Jews are often charged by Arabs and anti-Semitic westerners as "aggressors" while the suffering of Israelis and Jews is not even granted a footnote in international news. With that interpretation I find this cartoon offensive. The Israelis are the ones who are "fenced in". They live in less than 1% of the Middle East while surrounded by those who hate her. (NT) -- William, 02:11:12 08/05/03 Tue
  • I haven't followed Auth's work closely, but it's usually provocatively controversial, to say the least, and not sympathetic to conservative viewpoints. What troubles me is how short people's memories are. The 20th century saw everything in society start accelerating and expanding exponentially. The price is that old must be jettisoned to make room for new -- including knowledge...and common sense. How long before Klintoon is an upstanding, moral citizen, leading this country through a Golden Age? I shudder to think. (NT) -- Spock, 15:08:24 08/06/03 Wed
    • Spock, I have noticed a "head in the sand" action taken by leftists, liberals, extreme right wingers, and Democrats regarding this anti-Jew, and anti-Israel sentiment. I have noticed the same regarding the US taking military action to defend herself or ensure her own security after 9-11. This it outrageous and I wonder if this is polarizing people here as it appears to me to be doing, those who care, those who don't, those who demonize the US in such a way as to give aid and comfort to the enemy/ies, etc. (NT) -- William, 16:51:37 08/06/03 Wed
    • Now people who condemned US military action for her own safety in Afghanistan and Iraq are screaming that we must send troops to Liberia or we are not really compassionate, etc., while it is obvious that when we send troops to fight for our own security we are demonized. What a double standard and what hypocracy!

      Here is a rather interesting quote: "Some in my party are sending out a message that they don't know a just war when they see it, and, more broadly, are not prepared to use our military strength to protect our security and the cause of freedom." Sen. Joe Lieberman, (7/28/03) (NT) -- William, 16:54:21 08/06/03 Wed

      • Maybe I should send these two cartoons to Joe Lieberman. Yeah, he'd criticize a liberal newspaper ... yeah, sure. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:15:56 08/06/03 Wed
        • Go ahead -- it would be an interesting experiment: he is such a butt-kissing chameleon, he probably would, if it would get him votes. (NT) -- Spock, 13:57:45 08/07/03 Thu
          • In all fairness, what is interesting is that a year ago, Auth had a cartoon critical of Islam. Pointed out their "tolerance." It read, "We tolerate fanatics, suicide bombers, terrorist ‘charities’ and women … barely.” Boy did that get the Muslims in an uproar. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:18:58 08/07/03 Thu
            • Don't you just wish that everyone could be as tolerant as the Muslims have shown themselves to be? There would be so much love, patience, joy, compassion, and mercy. There would no longer be women confined to their home or limited from higher education and the workplace. There would be no more women stoned to death or whipped or canned when they are accused of having sex outside of marriage or even after they are raped. There would be an atmosphere of tolerance in religion also. No one would worry about being harassed, ostrasized or tortured or killed for leaving Islam. (NT) -- William, 17:40:29 08/08/03 Fri
            • No one would be made to feel like a second or third class citizen or even treated like a lesser person for practicing another faith other than Islam. Children would learn to love their fellow humans rather than to kill them.

              Opps! I just listed the things that Muslims actually DO, not the things which they oppose. (NT) -- William, 17:52:12 08/08/03 Fri

              • william, email me to the abuse box above so i get a copy. I have something for you and I lost your addy. (NT) -- Gary, 15:56:22 08/10/03 Sun

  ---

• How interesting!! Something to throw back in the faces of liberals who try to say Bush is horrible because he opposes this. First ask them if they woould feel the same about anyone who would do so. Then drop this bombshell on them. -- SurveyGuy, 20:57:27 08/02/03 Sat (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/8/2/204450
  Saturday, August 2, 2003 9:19 PM EST
  Clinton Opposed Same Sex Marriages
  
  Before condemning George Bush for taking a stand against same-sex marriages, liberals should keep in mind that not long ago one of their heroes took a similar stand.
  
  George Bush is not the only president to come out against same sex marriages - Bill Clinton, the liberal's darling, not only said he opposed the idea, he signed into law a ban on state recognition of such unions.
  
  As Nick Gillespie recalls in Reason Online's Hit and Run feature, Clinton signed The Defense of Marriage Act in September 1996. The measure was designed to prevent states from recognizing the validity of gay marriages.
  
  In signing the act, the suddenly moral Clinton said the had "long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages."
  
  Clinton's full statement issued on Friday, September 20, 1996 relating to the law follows:
  
  Throughout my life I have strenuously opposed discrimination of any kind, including discrimination against gay and lesbian Americans. I am signing into law H.R. 3396, a bill relating to same-gender marriage, but it is important to note what this legislation does and does not do.
  
  I have long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages and this legislation is consistent with that position. The Act confirms the right of each state to determine its own policy with respect to same gender marriage and clarifies for purposes of federal law the operative meaning of the terms "marriage" and "spouse".
  
  This legislation does not reach beyond those two provisions. It has no effect on any current federal, state or local anti-discrimination law and does not constrain the right of Congress or any state or locality to enact anti-discrimination laws. I therefore would take this opportunity to urge Congress to pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, an act which would extend employment discrimination protections to gays and lesbians in the workplace. This year the Senate considered this legislation contemporaneously with the Act I sign today and failed to pass it by a single vote. I hope that in its next Session Congress will pass it expeditiously.
  
  I also want to make clear to all that the enactment of this legislation should not, despite the fierce and at times divisive rhetoric surrounding it, be understood to provide an excuse for discrimination, violence or intimidation against any person on the basis of sexual orientation. Discrimination, violence and intimidation for that reason, as well as others, violate the principle of equal protection under the law and have no place in American society.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • SurveyGuy, one thing I have found is that it does not matter what liberals are told about their own kind they make excuses or ignore it and carry on with business as usual. They also don't care if something is good for as long as they hate your or think you are conservative or different from them they will demonize you and engage in rabid opposition to you. The leftist, communists, Islamofascists, and liberals have demonstrated this in the war on terror and the war and rebuilding of Iraq and on other issues as well. (NT) -- William, 15:00:13 08/04/03 Mon
    • This one has thrown a few people I know for a loop. What it does is open their eyes to the fact that they haven't been told the whole (or even partial) truth about issues. Of course the knee-jerk haters never seem to have a rationale. So I agree with you, but bringing up things like this really annoys them. What fun! (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:19:31 08/04/03 Mon
      • I intend to use this information about Clinton if the opportunity arises. I have noticed how liberals are becoming bumbling idiots, condescending intellectuals out to discredited and mock non liberal, not leftists and they cannot stand the heat their are getting, finally, but the likes of Ann Coulter, who, although she might be accused of exaggeration, is actually doing a pretty good job of airing leftists and liberal's dirty laundry, hypocracy and lies. (NT) -- William, 03:04:34 08/05/03 Tue

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• Magazine subscription scam -- Spock, 14:11:56 08/01/03 Fri (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  I think I may have discovered a new variety of mail-order subscription scam, as a result of lightning striking twice in the same place, so to speak.
  
  At work, when I go through the mail, there are often lots of mailings offering various magazine subscriptions. Normally I throw these in the trash, or if it looks really interesting, I'll pass it on to the office magazine subscriber person for them to decide.
  
  Twice now, in the past month or so, the respective magazine publisher has gone ahead and started a subscription anyway, without my having ordered it, and then started sending invoices, each with increasing urgency and terseness, approaching collection-letter tone.
  
  With the first letter or two of the first subscription, I threw those away too. I hadn't ordered it, figured it was their fluke, and they'd stop sending it when they realized they weren't getting payment -- subscriptions will often cancel themselves that way. And it was a matter of principle that I shouldn't have to pay postage to tell them their error. When collection-letter language set in, however, I went ahead and wrote "cancel" on the invoice, and added "we never ordered this subscription" for good measure. And I haven't heard anything since, thankfully.
  
  But today, I just got my introductory issue of ANOTHER magazine that I didn't order, complete with invoice -- I remember very distinctly the offer coming in, which I passed on to the subscriptions person who gave a resounding NO, and in the trash it went.
  
  My take is that this new scam is very clever psychologically -- they're operating on the premise that most people are too busy to remember all they've done, particularly all the things they may have signed up for or ordered. They see a bill and pay it regardless. (Have you ever noticed how if you even enter a sweepstakes, the drawing usually doesn't occur until a date far in the future, by which time you'll probably have forgotten all about it, and entered several more in the mean time, thereby spreading around your mailing list potential.)
  
  Granted, in the grand scheme, no harm done, I guess -- I haven't yet been held liable for these subscriptions. But I don't appreciate the harrassment, nor the time it wastes. My opinion of salespeople has never been high -- and I worked as a production manager in a sales office for 2 1/2 years and learned to confirm that opinion, and inform it a little too. Bottom line, I don't trust them. I never take sales calls, and screen them whenever possible. I signed up for the PA and the national "do not call" in a jiffy. Have you heard about how telemarketers are crying now, and suing the federal government over this? My husband describes them as essentially breaking and entering and harrassing -- we wouldn't let them do it in person, so why on the phone either? Add to that now, via the mail!
  
  Has anybody else had anything like my subscription scam happen yet?
  
  Should I be reporting this to one of those news shows that are always looking for new scoops, especially scams? It would seem to qualify, since I've heard stories done on how catalog companies will mail out different versions of the same catalog that have different prices for the same items, mailed by demographic determinations.
  
  Respectfully submitted,
  
  Spock
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • It is like "slamming" with phone providers. Contact each magazine and tell them in a letter, that you did not enter any subscription and do not intend to pay and please stop delivery. tell them you suspect that some third party has been entering these without permission and if so, you wanted them to be aware before they paid anyone any commission. In other words, make your letter to the magazine(s) helpful. If it is what you expect, a few of them may even reward you in some token manner (like a free subscription). Be sure to include a copy of the mailing label. Thanks for the report. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:08:23 08/01/03 Fri
  • Spock, Please give me the address so that I can send subscriptions to my magazine, "Intelligence for our Difficult Times" and "Spelleeng four week Spellurs: A Consise Gide four Impruveeng your Spelleeng Sckillz". (NT) -- William, 03:20:39 08/02/03 Sat

  ---

• This I gottta see. So if they accurately quote a blatant lie told by, say a Democrat, then have they reported the truth. After all the quoted source did say what they reported, even if the source lied. Still lots of room for the same overt bias and lie-telling. The question is will they quote people who are telling the truth - even Democrats? -- SurveyGuy, 12:06:28 08/01/03 Fri (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/7/30/145722
  Wednesday, July 30, 2003
  New York Times Hires Special Editors in Charge of Stopping Lies
  
  We're almost starting to feel sorry for that Democrat mouthpiece known as the New York Times. Still reeling from its recent scandals, it has hired three editors whose jobs are pretty much to keep the paper from publishing more lies.
  
  Acting on the recommendations of a committee, the Times said it would create three positions:
  
  an editor in charge of standards to educate the staff "on matters of accuracy and ethics" (apparently it had no standards before)
  
  a "public editor" to examine coverage and handle all those complaints from readers
  
  an editor to oversee hiring and career development, i.e., to give preference to non-whites without creating another Jayson Blair.
  
  "What we are out to do is raise our accountability for the management of our people, and acknowledge that it is inseparable from the making of our journalism," new Executive Editor Bill Keller said in a staff memo revealed today by the Associated Press.
  
  ----------------
  Addendum by me:
  I once say Sen. Patrick Moynihan give a speech on TV (C-Span I think) to some organization railing against how Congress had "borrowed" all the money out of the Social Security trust fund and left an "IOU" in effect. I never saw this truth reported and never saw Moynihan ever talk about that again. This was over a dozen years ago. I guess his party shut him up. This is not to say that the Republicans are complicit in this as well by keeping silent and even voting for those measures. Now were here the big lie that it was designed as a "pay as you go" system. Oh yeah? Then why did you need a "trust fund" and why can't we trust Congress to not raid it?
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

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• More governmental incompetence. The FBI, the CIA, and now a glimpse into the dim bulbs who manage the Secret Service. -- SurveyGuy, 22:35:52 07/25/03 Fri (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  President Bush's Secret Service buffoons
  by Michelle Malkin
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33751
  Shame on the Secret Service. This week, it investigated renowned editorial cartoonist Michael Ramirez like he was some left-wing homeless crackpot who had sent President Bush an anthrax-laced death threat – all because Ramirez drew a provocative cartoon that was clearly intended to defend the president.
  
  [Snipped ... click link above to read whole commentary]
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • SurveyGuy, I enjoyed Michelle's article. She is among my favorites. Did you hear about the man who was kicked off of British Airways recently because he wore a tag which stated "Suspected Terrorist"? His girlfriend, seated separately, ten rows away, was also kicked off the flight merely because they knew one another. I think it is clever to wear such a tag. (NT) -- William, 23:47:56 07/26/03 Sat
  • After my wife and I and our two small children were sent to a separate room before the airlines would accept our baggage, to have our belongings rifled through by hand, then through airport screening, then frisked, our shoes inspected, etc., before all the other passengers and passersby at the airport boarding area, I feel like carrying a name tag wich also says "Suspected Terrorist", because that is exactly what we are! (NT) -- William, 23:48:58 07/26/03 Sat
  • That is what we are to the airport security people and the government busy bodies, even though we do not fit the profile of a terrorists, especially an Islamofascist terrorist. Another guy made a small card, about the size of an index card, 3" by 5", metalic list of the Bill of Rights. When he comes through the airport screening he pulls it out and "gives up his rights" in order to board the aircraft. That list gives people an opportunity to read what our bill of rights states. (NT) -- William, 23:51:00 07/26/03 Sat
    • There is no uniformity and too often no common sense when it comes to airport "security." I ready the "suspected terrorist" article as well. Like the secret service not understanding the cartoon, the understandably humorless air personel displayed why we perhaps shouldn't trust them with hot beverages either. When rigid rules superceed thought, it is worse than the Prussian army ... and they wonder why air travel has declined. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:43:45 07/27/03 Sun
  • Here is the cartoon they responded to -- what do you think?
    
    
    (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:25:05 07/28/03 Mon
    • Kind of in poor taste, actually, IMHO - even though W's expression speaks volumes (as does the label on the back of the would-be assasin). But I also think the Secret Service way overreacted without checking things out properly first -- context is a lost art of understanding. Nobody remembers history, so the Vietnam reference was lost in favor of hairtrigger/knee-jerk responses, whereby one goes to the trouble of straining out a gnat only to swallow a camel. (NT) -- Spock, 12:41:53 07/29/03 Tue
      • And don't forget the sign that says "Iraq." Ramirez actually had to explain the cartoon to a Times reporter. The problem is that the message is too difficult for minds that function at a primitive level -- but what of their managers?! Sometimesbeing provocative may be called distasteful. Clearly these are allegorical images. He needed to put a tag on the gun labelled "Distortions" to compete the story for the Secret Service. Taste has nothing to do with it. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:04:37 07/29/03 Tue
        • How about if the gun had a little flag sticking out from the barrel that said "Lies?" Does that make it more tasteful? I thought it was a powerful image required to convey the message, but alas it seems to have failed to do so. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:33:53 07/30/03 Wed
      • SurveyGuy, I did read the cartoon after I read your post. Thanks for posting it here. I don't see the problem with this cartoon. There is the clear implication, for those who might be aware of the current news, that politics are targeting Bush, as is actually taking place here in the US these days. Some of the Dems, especially those who are running for president, wish to bring Bush down a few notches. The Dems are weak on terror and Bush is stronger than they are so they have to deconstruct Bush and his appearance of strength. (NT) -- William, 03:11:54 07/30/03 Wed
      • What gets me is that they are adding a lit match to gasoline and contributing to the extension of problems here and abroad as well as throwing the Iraqi people to the wolves by prolonging the problems there by feeding into them by siding against our president and US soldiers.

        Sometimes splitting hairs is not the best and most prudent thing to do. Now is the time for unity and a show of resolute intentions, not petty, destructive, counterproductive political rangling falsely parading as patriotism or concern. (NT) -- William, 03:15:01 07/30/03 Wed

      • Spock, people are so dishonest, cruel and vicious to demonize Bush, Blair, the US, and those who actually take steps to fight thugs like Saddam, the Ba'athists, bin Laden, al Qaeda, and the soldiers and others who actually fight these thugs, calling Bush "Hitler" while greviously denying Saddam Hussein is anything like Hitler. They demonize the US for taking steps to protect itself. These same people think it is a good idea to go out and send troops to be killed for "humanitarian" reasons in countries or for reason which we did not chose for our own security (e.g, Liberia, Bosnia, etc.) (NT) -- William, 03:24:40 07/30/03 Wed

  ---

• Finally a scapegoat to blame for 911? Why do I get feeling that I am being misdirected? How can Al Gore have created the internet and Louie Freeh been such a Luddite? I thought alleged technophile Gore was going to reinvent government. How come Louie had such a bad barber? But I digress ... what's your take on this little new item? -- SurveyGuy, 18:36:05 07/23/03 Wed (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  PBS Show Blames Clinton's FBI Director Freeh for 9/11
  
  Bill Clinton's FBI director was so fearful of technology that he left America exposed to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, according to a documentary airing tonight on the pro-Democrat network PBS.
  
  "If this 'National Georgraphic Special' is to be believed, then Louis Freeh must have been the biggest knucklehead ever to run the FBI," Adam Buckman writes in today's New York Post.
  
  According to the program, one of his first orders upon taking over in 1993 was having the computer removed from his office. He was unfamiliar with e-mail and "was unconvinced that the bureau's outdated computer network would hamper the FBI's ability to close cases or prevent catastrophes."
  
  "This documentary," Buckman writes, "actually goes so far as to suggest that Freeh's unwillingness to modernize the FBI's computers left the bureau and the nation unprepared for 9/11."
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

  ---

• It would seem the "crisis" in civil liberties is centered in NYC caused by the revenue drive of Mayor Bloomberg directing cops to ticket all minor infractions to raise funds. My reaction is to continue to stay the hell out of NYC. He ran as a Republican, desoite being a long-time Democratic supporter. While he may have a reputation as philanthropist, I see no kindness towards the working stiff. Several weeks ago, an $80 ticket was given to a guy resting on a milk crate for improper use of a milk crate. -- SurveyGuy (Still voting libertarian next time around), 13:43:24 07/20/03 Sun (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33662
  YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
  Man hauled off by cops for using 2 subway seats
  Rider in NYC claims 'bum rap' after bust on almost vacant train
  
  A 21-year-old man was ordered off a Manhattan-bound subway and issued a summons by New York City police for stretching out across more than one seat on the nearly-empty train, according to a report in the New York Post.
  
  Regular subway rider Stephen Lamarch was on his way to his 4 a.m. shift at Rockefeller Center, where he works as a grounds landscaper. There was only one other person in the car in the early morning hours so he decided to stretch his 5-foot-6 frame over two seats.
  
  Unfortunately for Lamarch, subway rules ban taking up more than one seat per posterior.
  
  He tells the Post two plain clothes cops stepped onboard at one of the train's stops and said: ''NYPD. You're coming with us.''
  
  Lamarch says he was detained for about 15 minutes and grilled about his identity and destination before being issued a summons for taking up more than one subway-car seat.
  
  The summons reads: "Did observe respondent laying across three seats."
  
  Lamarch says he was only taking up two seats and didn't think it was a crime since it was 2:30 a.m. and the car was practically deserted.
  
  "I see stuff like this in the papers and I think it's ridiculous, how could that happen? And now it's happened to me,'' he told the Post.
  
  A police spokesman says the cops did the right thing.
  
  ''The New York City Police Department credits the enforcement of petty offenses with a 14.5 percent decline in major crimes in the transit system in 2003,'' the spokesman told the newspaper.
  
  Lamarch plans to fight the $50 fine, but the ordeal has already cost him. He was fifteen minutes late for work and docked an hour's pay.
  
  "I was taken off the train on my way to work, to earn a living. It's like a wrench in the gears and on top of it, I have to pay," Lamarch complained to the Post.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I love this statement: "The New York City Police Department credits the enforcement of petty offenses with a 14.5 percent decline in major crimes in the transit system in 2003" the spokesman told the newspaper. I wonder if they will take this case to the Supreme Court and if it will be overturned there as they did with the Texas sodomy case. (NT) -- William, 18:34:45 07/21/03 Mon
    • Wheeeew! Wow! I feel so much safer now! (NT) -- William, 18:52:25 07/21/03 Mon
    • Yes, arresting and fining this man prevented a major crime -- two people resting. If they let this sort of thing continue, before you know it, the man might even have had the audacity to take a nap. Then he might get mugged. So you see, it was for his own good. They just forgot to tell him that when they hustled him off the train. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:19:22 07/21/03 Mon

  ---

• Title:   Idiot Comment of the week (Ann Coulter) -- H_Bergeron, 01:59:55 07/11/03 Fri (pcp04097145pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.189.215)
  from the Interesting People email list:
  
  

  ------ Forwarded Message
  
   From: Freematt357@aol.com
  
   Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:50:08 EDT
  
   To: farber@cis.upenn.edu
  
   Subject: Idiot Comment of the week (Ann Coulter)
  
   
  
   Idiot Comment of the week (Ann Coulter)
  
   
  
   "No serious person thinks that we are in the middle of a civil-liberties crisis"
  
   
  
   Ann Coulter, Time Magazine July 14, 2003 
  
  (via Page 8, 10 questions for Ann Coulter)

  
  
  link to full article
  
  Q and A in context with statement bolded
  
  Q: In Treason you say, "Liberals' principal contribution to the war on terrorism
  has been to bill themselves as a corrective to 'jingoism.' Their real goal is too appalling to state out loud."
  Care to state it out loud?
  A: They are rooting against America.
  I don't think there is any other way to explain hysterical claims of a civil-liberties emergency
  in this country every time John Ashcroft talks to a Muslim.
  No serious person thinks that we are in the middle of a civil-liberties crisis.
  We have just seen thousands of fellow Americans slaughtered by legal immigrants to this country.
  And John Ashcroft has detained several hundred illegal immigrants?

  
  The best critique I've read concerning Ann Coulter
  is this article from Spinsanity -
  a site which I highly recommend for articles that aren't afraid to go after the left or the right -
  sometimes both in the same article...
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I have not read Ann Coulter's book "Treason" yet. I have read excerpts from it here and there. With that said, that I have not read the book but I have read excerpts (here and there) I see nothing major wrong with her book ... yet. I know that David Horowitz also criticized her book as well. Why don't I have a BIG problem with it yet ...? (NT) -- William, 00:16:39 07/14/03 Mon
  • Because, from what I have seen, she is using a magnifying glass to bring to light the dishonesty and anti-US agenda of the Liberals and the Leftists. The Leftists and Liberals do much worse than she has done, and it is their modus operandae. I think Ann Coulter, right or wrong, adds balance to Liberal and Leftist lies and rhetoric, by blowing their BS up large for all the world to see, even if it is a bit exaggerated at times. (NT) -- William, 00:17:42 07/14/03 Mon
  • I first note that's from Time magazine. Then I focus on the word "crisis." While I think there may be some affronts to civil liberties, i do not think it has reached anything near a crisis. Do you? I think terms like "crisis" are overused so they lose their meaning. While I am not at all pleased with several Ashcroft's actions, is it yet a crisis? We should be critical in measure. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:36:51 07/14/03 Mon
  • The problem is that the Democrats prove Coulter correct each and every day regardless of the well-written, spinsanity piece. If she had called the book "Sedition," few would have even looked at the title. With many Democrats there is a pattern -- character assassination to win power, no matter what the cost to the country. Look at the discussions of extending the crisis in CA caught on open mike, for political gain. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Not needing Coulter's book to come to the same conclusion.), 16:48:05 07/25/03 Fri

  ---

• 
  Are multiculturalism and diversity merely code words for closed minds and censorship? Here's another example that idiots are in charge in our universities. I think I will start calling them "monoversities."
  
  -- SurveyGuy, 18:32:08 07/06/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  www.thefire.org
  Cal Poly Student Punished for Posting Flier
  Public University Gives Heckler's Veto to Students Who Claim “Offense”
  SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA—In the spring of 2003, a student at the California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly) was found guilty of “disruption” for posting a flier—in a public area—that some students found “offensive.” The public university placed unequal rights above the Bill of Rights. “Allowing some individuals to veto the protected expression of others is an unconscionable betrayal of Cal Poly’s moral and legal obligations,” said Thor L. Halvorssen, CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).
  
  On November 12, 2002, Steve Hinkle, an undergraduate and a member of the Cal Poly College Republicans (CPCR), posted fliers advertising a speech by Mason Weaver, author of It’s OK to Leave the Plantation. In that book, Weaver argues that dependence on the government puts many African-Americans in circumstances similar to slavery. Weaver’s speech was sponsored by both CPCR and the student government. The flier contained merely the title of the book, a photograph of the author (who is African-American), and the time and location of the speech.
  
  When Hinkle sought to post a flier on a public bulletin board in the Multicultural Center, several students approached him. They claimed that they were “offended” by the flier and that it was in violation of the Center’s posting policy. Hinkle left to check the policy, confirming that he was indeed in compliance. While he was gone, one of the students called the university police. The officer summoned to the Center stated in writing that he was investigating a report of “a suspicious white male passing out literature of an offensive racial nature.”
  
  The students in the Multicultural Center admit trying to prevent Hinkle from advertising the event. Charges were brought not against these censors, however, but against Hinkle himself. On January 29, 2003, Cal Poly charged Hinkle with “disruption” of a “campus event.” The students who objected to the posting of the flier claimed that they were holding a Bible study dinner and meeting at the time of the incident. The university’s “finding of facts” notes that the Bible study group is not officially recognized, that the bulletin board is in a public “student lounge area,” and that no notice of any kind indicated that a meeting was underway at the time.
  
  In February, Cal Poly subjected Hinkle to a lengthy hearing. He was denied the right to have a lawyer present at the proceedings, but his faculty advisor made a transcript. At that hearing, Cornel Morton, vice president for student affairs, told Hinkle: “You are a young white male member of CPCR. To students of color, this may be a collision of experience.… The chemistry has racial implications, and you are naïve not to acknowledge those.”
  
  On March 12, Vice Provost W. David Conn found Hinkle guilty. Conn ordered Hinkle to write letters of apology to the offended students. The sentencing letter from Conn stated that the text of the apology would be subject to the approval of the Office of Judicial Affairs. The letter also warned that “there is no parameter or guarantee regarding the confidentiality of the letter [of apology]” and that “this decision is final.” Conn informed Hinkle that if he did not accept this punishment, he would face much stiffer penalties, up to expulsion.
  
  Hinkle submitted his case to FIRE. On April 15, 2003, Greg Lukianoff, FIRE’s director of legal and public advocacy, wrote to Cal Poly President Warren J. Baker, urging him to defend Steve Hinkle’s fundamental constitutional rights. Lukianoff demonstrated the absurdity of a “disruption” charge against someone who was silently posting, on a public bulletin board, a flier for an approved campus event. Moreover, Lukianoff wrote, the “disrupted” students were “not a recognized student group and the ‘meeting’ was therefore not a ‘campus function.’ Ironically, Mr. Hinkle was actually posting fliers for an event that was sponsored by a recognized student group and by the student government, and it is he who has the far better claim to ‘campus function’ status.”
  
  Lukianoff continued: “All accounts agree that Mr. Hinkle, who only wanted to post a flier, was then approached by the students—not the other way around.” Hinkle’s accusers, he noted, “themselves initiated what they later claimed was his ‘disruption’….If they had allowed Mr. Hinkle to go about his constitutionally protected activity, there would have been no ‘disruption’ at all. All of this leads FIRE to draw the obvious conclusion: Mr. Hinkle and the CPCR are being punished for the content of their expression.”
  
  On May 9, 2003, Cal Poly’s legal counsel, Carlos Cordova, responded to FIRE’s letter. Cordova denied any wrongdoing and did not substantively address any of FIRE’s specific concerns. Today, Steve Hinkle remains punished for trying to post a factual, simple, and constitutionally protected flier.
  
  “I have been distracted from my studies because a handful of my fellow students want to see me punished for the content of my flier,” Hinkle said. “With FIRE in my corner, I now hope that Cal Poly will be made to respect my free speech rights.”
  
  “Cal Poly grants selected students abusive control over the expression of other students,” Halvorssen noted. “Disagreement, now called ‘offense,’ is all it takes to get Cal Poly administrators to launch an inquiry and secure a conviction on a spurious charge of ‘disruption.’ Cal Poly gives some people the power to veto what others have to say. Students at that institution now live in insecure possession of their most basic First Amendment rights.”
  
  The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education is a nonprofit educational foundation. FIRE unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and due process on our nation’s campuses. FIRE’s efforts to preserve liberty at Cal Poly and elsewhere can be seen by visiting www.thefire.org.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Thor L. Halvorssen Chief Executive Officer FIRE will be on MSNBC's "Scarborough Country with Joe Scarborough" tonight. About 10:30 to discuss the case. Mr. Halvorssen is a local guy (NT) -- Chez, 18:33:38 07/07/03 Mon
    • Thanks for the alert. I am often amazed by your awareness of what I think are somewhat esoteric issues that are little publicized. This is the sort of issue that really makes one dispise knee-jerk liberals. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:38:47 07/07/03 Mon
  • SG, being a monoversity would be a giant step up for most "higher education" institutions -
    "polyversities" (as in polymorphously perverse) would more suitably describe the situation.... (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 20:11:52 07/14/03 Mon

  ---

• This looks like something we hear from kids in many public schools throughout the United States -- William, 02:35:52 07/04/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  

  Imagine, with the quality of some public school education systems today, the following historical presentation being given by a student.

  ---

  Little Known Fact

  Many stories have come to us from the tragic sinking of the great ship Titanic . . . some are not as well known as others.

  Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellman's mayonnaise was manufactured in England.

  In fact, the "Titanic" was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after New York. To date, the largest shipment ever exported to Mexico.

  The people of Mexico, who were crazy about the stuff, were eagerly awaiting delivery and were disconsolate at the loss.

  So much so that they declared a National Day of mourning which they still observe today. It is known, of course, as Sinko de Mayo.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Do I dare concoct a sequel? Here goes. Months later sevral cases of the tasty stuff washed up on the gulf shore. The conconction arriving in such a manner caused the religious inhabitants to refer to it as the miracle whip.
    (NT) -- SG, 07:22:21 07/04/03 Fri
  • Man you had me going !! (NT) -- Surf, 14:35:04 07/16/03 Wed
    • Hello, Surf! How are you and your family enjoying your summer? (NT) -- William, 02:37:40 07/17/03 Thu

  ---

• Truth is (sometimes) funnier than fiction. -- SurveyGuy, 16:42:52 06/27/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  As I read this short article, I thought to myself: "Gee, the Kennedy clan would make much more amusing real life MTV than the Osbornes."
  
  Friday, June 27, 2003
  Patrick Kennedy: 'I Never Worked a &#$@! Day in My Life'
  
  Wacky Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., is at it again. "I don't need Bush's tax cut. I have never worked a [bleeping] day in my life," he said Wednesday night at a gathering of Young Democrats at the Washington nightspot Acropolis.
  
  "With that he got the audience's attention - the dropping-jaws kind," the Washington Post reported today.
  
  The Post quoted one witness as saying, "He droned on and on, frequently mentioning how much better the candidates would sound the more we drank."
  
  According to the newspaper, Kennedy "let his mouth race ahead of his brain," which "sometimes happens with" him.
  
  So how much will Patrick be giving to the tax-me-more fund for Guilty White Liberals?
  
  To learn more about this particular Kennedy's history of bizarre behavior, click here.
  
  Despite this latest gaffe, Patrick still hasn't taken top prize in the hotly contested Stupid Sayings by the Kennedy "Clan." That honor would go to cousin Michael Skakel, for his infamous boast: "I am going to get away with murder. I am a Kennedy."
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Sorry - left out the "click here" link, so CLICK HERE instead. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:22:31 06/29/03 Sun

  ---

• Followup on a story a few months old. Maybe if more people would sue the bastards, we could get back some of our civil liberties. -- SurveyGuy, 11:31:43 06/26/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Judge: Woman free
  to wear cross to work
  Court rules in favor of agency employee suspended over Christian symbol
  Posted: June 26, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  A federal district court judge in Pittsburgh ruled yesterday an educational agency that suspended an employee from her job for wearing a cross pendant violated the woman's constitutional rights in doing so.
  
  The American Center for Law and Justice, or ACLJ, the public-interest law firm that filed suit on behalf of the teacher's aide, said the action represents a victory for the First Amendment.
  
  "We're delighted that the court acted to protect the constitutional rights of our client," said Vincent McCarthy, Senior Counsel of ACLJ, in a statement. "By granting our motion for a preliminary injunction, the court realized that the policies and actions of the state educational agency were not only wrong, but unconstitutional as well. ... The decision sends a strong message that laws and policies that result in religious discrimination are not acceptable."
  
  As WorldNetDaily reported, officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 in Pennsylvania suspended Brenda Nichol, 43, for one year for refusing to stop wearing a one-and-a-quarter-inch cross, which they said violated a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb. The woman is an eight-year employee of the agency.
  
  "I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," she told the Indiana Gazette in April.
  
  Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law on public schools, according to Dr. Robert H. Coad Jr., executive director of ARIN.
  
  The ARIN handbook says employees may wear a cross or other religious jewelry as long as it cannot be seen by others.
  
  
  Of the regulation, Nichol said at the time the suit was filed: "I could not follow that code in my heart. I could not deny Christ."
  
  In a 42-page order granting a motion for preliminary injunction, according to the ACLJ statement, U.S. District Court Judge Arthur J. Schwab said the state statute does not apply to Nichol because of her teacher's aide position, but that if it did it would be unconstitutional.
  
  The policy is "openly and overtly averse to religion because it singles out and punishes only symbolic speech by its employees having religious content or viewpoint, while permitting its employees to wear jewelry containing secular messages or no messages at all," the order said.
  
  The court concluded ARIN's policy violates the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment and ordered that Nichol be reinstated to her former position with full back pay and benefits pending final disposition of the case at a hearing Aug. 28.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I wouldn't care if somebody had 2 dogs humping on a chain around their neck as long as they could get the job done. (NT) -- Gary, 13:37:34 06/26/03 Thu
    • That's one way of putting it...:) How do they feel about ankhs or crescent/stars? And there are plenty of people who wear religious symbols as jewelry purely as a fashion statement, not a religious one. It's one thing to wear something like a cross or star of David and go about your business while minding your own business, and another to be in others' faces about your beliefs. Personally, I'm sick of intolerant liberals who insist on shrieking their values and beliefs but muzzle anyone who thinks or believes differently. (NT) -- Spock, 16:32:39 06/26/03 Thu
  • SG, here's a thought -- if atheists came up with a symbol, do you think they'd be allowed to wear it under these circumstances? (NT) -- Spock, 16:37:07 06/26/03 Thu
    • They would now. This is a precedent setting case. Those who are religious should keep a copy of this on hand if some liberal moron decides they don't like something and plan to act on it. It will save a lt of time in court. I was sorry to see that there were no punitive damages reported for civil rights violations, just made whole financially and vindicated. I guess that's enough for justice. I guess if there's a repeat incident, the courts may feel differently. I say slap 'em around a bit now as a warning that if they do it again, their jobs may be in jeopardy. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (glad some people believe in something positive), 17:02:41 06/26/03 Thu

  ---

• Is this an allegory or a parable? Or maybe it's just a joke. -- SurveyGuy, 11:20:23 06/26/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  This joke is being circulated. Somehow it seemed appropriate to post it here.
  
  Dan Rather, Jesse Jackson, Cokie Roberts from National Public Radio and an Israeli soldier were hiking through the jungle one day when they were captured by cannibals. They were tied up, led to the village and brought before the chief.
  
  The chief said, "I am familiar with your western custom of granting the condemned a last wish. Before we kill and eat you, do you have any last requests?"
  
  Dan Rather said, "Well, I'm a Texan; so I'd like one last bowlful of hot, spicy chili." The chief nodded to an underling, who left and returned with the chili. Rather ate it all and said, "Now I can die content."
  
  Jesse Jackson said, "You know, the thing in this life I am proudest of is my work on behalf of the poor and oppressed. So before I go, I want to sing "We Shall Overcome" one last time." The chief said, "Go right ahead, we're listening." Jackson sang the song, and then said, "Now I can die in peace."
  
  Cokie Roberts said, "I'm a reporter to the end. I want to take out my tape recorder and describe the scene here and what's about to happen. Maybe someday someone will hear it and know that I was on the job til the end." The chief directed an aide to hand over the tape recorder, and Roberts dictated some comments. She then said, "Now I can die happy."
  
  The chief said, "And, Mr. Israeli soldier, what is your final wish?"
  
  "Kick me in the ass." said the Israeli.
  
  "What?" said the chief. "Will you mock us in your last hour?" "No, I'm not kidding. I want you to kick me in the ass." insisted the Israeli.
  
  So the chief untied the soldier, shoved him into the open, and kicked him in the ass. The Israeli went sprawling, but rolled to his knees,pulled a 9mm pistol from his waistband, and shot the chief dead. In the resulting confusion, he leapt to his knapsack, pulled out his uzi, and sprayed the cannibals with gunfire. In a flash, the annibals were all dead or fleeing for their lives.
  
  As the Israeli was untying the others, they each asked him, "Why didn't you just shoot them? Why did you ask them to kick you in the ass?"
  
  "What!?" said the Israeli, "And have you f***ers call ME the aggressor?!?"
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Oh God that is so true! Did I say GOD? ooooooo nooooo .... (NT) -- Gary, 13:40:05 06/26/03 Thu
  • Hah! Too funny. And too true. What do you want to bet the anti-gun crowd would be outraged over just such a situation, and rather than laud the brave man who saved himself and his companions, instead come down on him as a violent murderer of those poor primitive savages, and if it weren't for his guns, they'd...uuuuhhh....they'd all be dead....uuuhhh....wait a minute....there's gotta be a way to make the logic work here somehow.... (NT) -- Spock, 16:45:21 06/26/03 Thu
    • If it weren't for that mean, evil, aggressive, murdering Nazi Israel Soldier, those sweet, innocent, bothering nobody, cannibals would have had a very lousy meal of three very unpleasant individuals, while some might not mind Cokie Roberts as much as the others. As a result, those poor cannibals will go hungry and the children of those who were killed will now have to grow up without a father and/or mother. If not for that mean Israeli soldier interfering with their way of life! (NT) -- William, 00:36:27 06/27/03 Fri
    • Spock, does that help make the logic work? Gotta' find a way to nail that nasty Israel soldier for ruining the cannibals' dinner and saving his own life as well as those of Jackson, Roberts, and Rather. It was a clever situational comedy, was it not? (NT) -- William, 23:59:48 06/27/03 Fri
  • Another clever bit of humor, and so close to truth that it almost hurts! (NT) -- William, 00:31:42 06/27/03 Fri

  ---

• Lite reading -- William, 04:25:15 06/24/03 Tue (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Once upon a time in a court room in a small town ...
  
  A small town prosecuting attorney called his first witness to the stand in a trial--a grandmotherly, elderly woman. He approached her and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know me?"
  
  She responded, "Why, yes, I do know you Mr. Williams. I've known you since you were a young boy. And frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a rising big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you never will amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you."
  
  The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do he pointed across the room and asked, "Mrs. Williams, do you know the defense attorney?"
  
  She again replied, "Why, yes I do. I've known Mr. Bradley since he was a youngster, too. I used to baby-sit him for his parents. And he, too, has been a real disappointment to me. He's lazy, bigoted, he has a drinking problem. The man can't build a normal relationship with anyone and his law practice is one of the shoddiest in the entire state. Yes, I know him."
  
  At this point, the judge rapped the courtroom to silence and called both counselors to the bench. In a very quiet voice, he said with menace, "If either of you asks her if she knows me, you'll be in jail for contempt of court in a heart beat!"
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

  ---

• FBI Agent killed Vince Foster and Chandra Levy -- Barbara Bateman, 23:17:00 06/20/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  
  
  Vince Foster and Chandra Levy were killed by blonde FBI agent for Hillary Clinton, blue eyed, straight blonde hair, page boy,round face, security guard and possibly is/has been the same guard for Barbra Streisand.
  
  He wore FBI black suit and coat at Klinger Park on date of murder and ran to driver's side of mercedes/type car
  with creamy leather interior. No tie was on.
  
  Black guy also is perpetrator on Levy case,wore campaign hat, left eye is round, shallow, is the term, muscular trainer male.
  
  i was praying and fasting a year ago wnen I saw incident in late afternoon almost sundown when FBI agent ran to the car.
  Words were written in vision. I notified authorities in DC.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Vince Foster's body was found in Ft. Marcy Park. (NT) -- SG, 18:04:07 06/21/03 Sat
  • Chandra Levy was found in Rock Creek Park. I wonder what black, blue-eyed, blonde perp did to get allthese unrelated bodies moving around. (NT) -- SG [I heard fasting can cause hallucinations], 18:10:50 06/21/03 Sat
  • I was in a meditative state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi and I revisited the crimes. Vince Foster was done by the butler with the candle holder while Chandra Levy was done by Buddy, the Clinton's dog. He was run over by a car as a plot to hush him up before he spoke to Woodward and Bernstein and spilled the beans. Also, Osama bin Laden in now doing standup comedy on HBO and in a little town in Peru. Saddam Hussein is playing soccer for Sri Lanka's football team. (NT) -- William, 04:39:35 06/24/03 Tue
  • Elvis is living at 24,000 ft on K-2 and still keeps a home in Belize. He works under cover for the DEA. Jimmi Hendrix has changed his look and his name and has been playing cello for the Turino, Italia, Symphony Orchestra as Gino Valencia. (NT) -- William, 04:40:36 06/24/03 Tue
    • Like they said in Men in Black, the tabloids really ARE the best source of news, then, eh? (NT) -- Spock, 12:28:24 06/27/03 Fri

  ---

• Thought for today.... -- Spock, 10:37:53 06/19/03 Thu (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  
  "Constant complaint is the poorest sort of pay for all the comforts we enjoy."
  
  -- Benjamin Franklin
  
  
  (AKA, biting the hand that feeds you...?)
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

  ---

• An interesting essay on a spreading technology. How will it affect ur lives, if at all? -- SurveyGuy, 09:36:27 06/17/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  

  
  

  START

  essay

  
  
  Phonecam Nation
  Everyone's posting instant photos on the Web. Get ready for your close-up.
  By Xeni Jardin
  
  To read this essay, go to http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/start.html?pg=2
  
  After you have read it, consider the ramifications to personal privacy. I know the argument that if you are on a public street you should have no expectation of privacy, but is that really true? It is one thing to be transiently seen by the public, yet another to have your picture snapped and published so that anyone in the world can see it.
  
  No easy answers here. Just tell us how nervous this makes you and if you expect to have to punch out some people. Maybe it's a bad hair day or something. You don't have to be doing anything wrong to be annoyed by this. The potential for harrassment is great. Should we be concerned? Only time will tell.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I've heard about this, and of some fairly flagrant abuses of taste -- people take their little cameras into locker rooms and other private-public locations and whoever's in there could find they're a new porn star on the internet. Whatever happened to asking permission to take someone's picture? Especially for publication? Common courtesy is a lost art, as is common sense. I can't think of a fitting penalty yet, but I am fully in favor of things like castrating rapists and death penalty for murderers, so something equally apt would do for amateur paparazzi. Ideas, anyone? (NT) -- Spock, 14:39:31 06/18/03 Wed
  • It's like that recent movie with Tom Cruise in it. Soon everywhere you go computers will track you by doing a retinal scan. You won't be able to go anywhere or do anything without a record. Sorf of like Easy Pass for life. (NT) -- Surf, 18:55:57 06/18/03 Wed
    • Have you got a credit check done lately? All your credit history and personal info is now on line.. (NT) -- Chez, 12:17:12 06/21/03 Sat

  ---

• "Dr" Bryant is Mr. Bryant -- John, 20:39:46 06/16/03 Mon (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Reggie Bryant has a bachelor's and master's degree from Temple U. No doctorate. For additional details see the following site. http://www.delleast.org/instructors.html
  
  Reggie is always very antagonistic when people ask him about his credentials and he never corrects them when they call him doctor. I think he's a real phoney. He loves to say "it's not what you know that hurts you, but what you know that just ain't so". What a hypocrite.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Few here really care, since he is not an elected official or a news topic and few, if any, here listen to him. The post was old and someone replied to it, bringing it to the top. While it is an opinion, he just isn't news. You might want to start a thread on WHAT's talkers at www.phillytalkradioonline.com. This is just not a good forum for this topic. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:30:02 06/16/03 Mon
    • BTW I care SG because the “Voice of the African American Community” implies some type of civic responsibility. I am sure if someone called WPHT and said that “Hilter did not go far enough” they would be chided. I hear these types of comments regularly on “Mr. Bryant’s” show.. (NT) -- Chez, 10:02:30 06/21/03 Sat
  • Thanks for that info; Afro-Nazi Reggie is despicable. Survey Guy is right. You will probably get more responses if you posted on Philly Talk Radio forum. SG is it against the rules to repost this on the Philly Talk Radio forum? (NT) -- Chez, 09:55:16 06/21/03 Sat
    • I don't know -- ask Surf -- it's his board. Frankly, unless you have an interest, I'd let the poster do it himself. I don't see much interest it 'HAT there either. (NT) -- SG, 18:13:35 06/21/03 Sat

  ---

• News Flash! -- SurveyGuy, 08:56:08 06/13/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  News Flash!
  
  At Heathrow Airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a public school math teacher, was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a compass, a protractor, and a graphic calculator.
  
  Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious al-Gebra movement. He is being charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Al-Gebra -- John D., 13:21:43 06/15/03 Sun
    • On the contrary, I don't believe security folks are capable of original ideas. See Privacy International's Stupid Security Contest Page. Glad you liked the joke. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:01:25 06/15/03 Sun
  • I enjoyed the joke, SurveyGuy. Thank you.

    After the war in Iraq, after the rhetoric, the lies, the spin put forth by the oppostion here and abroad, including the Left and the Right, and after seeing how these people are still nit picking and fighting tooth and nail, this time trying to make Bush, Powell, Blair, et all, out to be evil men (as they tried to do before Iraq was liberated), I can see that people are misdirected and misguiged idiots. Russia, China, France, Germany, and others were involved in "illegal" activities with Iraq yet get a free pass. (NT) -- William, 02:52:20 06/16/03 Mon

  • The Arab countries are involved with anti-Semetic acts and sentiment as well as hatred of the West and not just the United States, and get a free pass. Iraqis were oppressed for decades and their oppressors get a free pass. The US President, Bush, Colin Powel, along with the US itself, and Britain's PM Blair are damned if the do and damned if they don't. The good guys are demonized and the bad guys are applauded and get a free pass, they can do no wrong. The world is sick! (NT) -- William, 02:53:23 06/16/03 Mon
    • Click here for more -- William, 03:04:57 06/16/03 Mon
      • People are getting nastier -- but only some of them. Many who need help actually believe all the racist mumbo-jumbo and insult those who are trying to help them. I have a feeling, though, that the extreme left who are in office may have finally antagonized the rational few on the left enough to send them to vote more conservatively. We'll see. Outrageousness may have worked in the past, but it is a song that is getting old. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 16:54:44 06/16/03 Mon
  • Poor, misguided soul....maybe he was just looking for direction in life? (NT) -- Spock (seeing your pun and raising you a wordplay), 12:16:39 06/16/03 Mon
    • One point penalty for protracting a bad pun. (NT) -- SurveyGuy [right back at ya], 22:34:20 06/16/03 Mon
      • That's acute one. (NT) -- Spock (ouch), 13:06:47 06/18/03 Wed
        • Spock, why can't I have your wit? (NT) -- William, 04:32:57 06/24/03 Tue
          • Always glad to share...it takes a certain angle... (NT) -- Spock (mind you if this is what higher math was all about, I'd have done much better in HS), 16:58:53 06/26/03 Thu

  ---

• I subscribe to the vastly amusing "Dilbert Newsletter" -- In the current issue, Scott Adams offers this pithy commentary about current world events and attitudes.... -- Spock, 15:11:17 06/11/03 Wed (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  Dumb Rich People
  ----------------
  
  I recently read an article by an economist who said that poverty causes people to become terrorists. He used big words and was very convincing.
  
  Then I watched TV coverage of a high school hazing ritual in an upscale suburban neighborhood. Dozens of well-to-do Induhviduals paid for the privilege of sitting in a field and having mud, paint, garbage, eggs, pig guts, and excrement shoved up their nostrils while being beaten with blunt objects.
  
  I'm not an economist, but my theory is that you can convince a certain percentage of Induhviduals to do any dangerous thing, whether they happen to be poor or not. So let's stop picking on poor people. If peer pressure can convince 20% of rich kids to start smoking cigarettes -- and it does -- it isn't much of a leap to convince them to grow scraggly beards and drive exploding cars. It's mostly a difference in timing.
  
  Osama inherited half a billion dollars. So I rule out poverty as a cause of terror. I blame rich Induhviduals, and peer pressure.
  
  Peer pressure is the most powerful force on the planet, and we need to use it to our advantage. For example, I recommend that the Western media and politicians stop using the menacing-yet-cool phrase "Al-Qaeda" and start referring to the group as the "frickin' Induhviduals."
  
  Like the proverbial dog chasing a car, the Induhviduals haven't considered what would happen if they caught one. For example, let's say they (the Induhviduals, not the dogs) accomplish their stated goal of destroying the economies of the Western world. Is that really a good plan for people who live in a desert and import most of their food?
  
  Just for the record, if I'm down to my last potato, I'm not sharing it with a guy who wants to kill me so he can get a better supply of virgins in paradise. That lesson is a little thing I call Economics 101, infidel style.
  
  For the Induhviduals, it must look as if Americans are really dumb to have the most awesome arsenal in the history of the world and still be unable to stop terror attacks. They don't realize that the way Americans look at it is that, so far, we're "really mad," but not yet "REALLY, REALLY mad." Oh, there's a difference. Americans
  understand that somewhere between "inconvenient air travel" and "complete breakdown of Western civilization," the "REALLY, REALLY mad" part kicks in. I won't give away what happens then, but remember you first heard the phrase "New Iowa" in the Dilbert Newsletter.
  
  And let's stop calling the terrorist supporters "fundamentalists," because that sounds like it could be a good thing. I recommend a more descriptive label, such as "slow learners," to keep things in
  perspective. Then let's airdrop science and economics textbooks on their terrorist training camps with condescending notes, such as, "Maybe this will help. Call us if you have questions."
  
  This would be a small step, in the sense that reading books about economics is only slightly better than suicide. But you have to start somewhere.
  
  That's my plan. If you have a better one, be sure to include it in your next newsletter.
  
  ****************
  
  I find the Dilbert Newsletter to be rather handy for those much-needed laugh-out-loud moments (so far as you can get away with it at work, which is often more fun than at home). You can request a new subscription to the Dilbert Newsletter by entering your e-mail address HERE.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Thanks for the amusing post.( I took care of the duplicate post. ) (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:46:22 06/11/03 Wed
  • Thank you for the funny post, Spock. It is good to "hear" from you! (NT) -- William, 03:08:15 06/16/03 Mon

  ---

• "Dr" Reggie Bryant -- LJP, 15:59:26 10/04/02 Fri (NoHost/146.145.96.201)
  I caught a show called "In Pursuit Of Truth" on WHAT. The host, Reggie Bryant, was waxing poetic about his anti-war stance. To Reggie, war has never solved a thing - EVER! So, I called to say that war is sometimes necessary and was challenged - what has it ever done? I contended that it created this country, and we're better off here than our original homelands. Well, he called me an arrogant American, claimed that "so called democracy" is not the bestfor of govt." I asked him what was? I brought woman's rights in Arabic countries, famine in Africa. He then told me I was brainwashed! and talked about lynchings!! Then of course, he hung up on me, and, after I was off the air, called me a bigot.
  
  What's the deal with this cat? Anyone here know what the deal is with this crazy (commie) cat?
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • His actions and words speak for themselves. By the way, LJB, are you black or did you identify youfself upon calling inas black? Did you identify yourself as white or did Reggie Bryant assume you were white? If you identified yourself as black you would probably have been accused of sounding white or being an "Uncle Thom" or "House Negro". If you are white or identified as white you automatically are fair game for black racsim. By the way, why listen to this hate monger's program anyway? (NT) -- William, 16:12:05 10/04/02 Fri
    • Does Dr. Reggie Bryant have a Ph.D. -- Louis, 21:45:48 06/10/03 Tue
      • Definitely....B.S., M.S., Piled higher & Deeper.... (NT) -- Spock, 11:11:03 06/11/03 Wed
      • Doctor Bryant -- John, 13:18:31 06/18/03 Wed
  • A word to the wise: consider the source. The whole line of thinking so energetically propagated on WHAT-the-hell's airwaves is a runaway crazy-train; no way would they stop for so pittly a thing as "logic." When their mind's made up, don't confuse them with the facts. (NT) -- Spock, 16:30:03 10/04/02 Fri
  • WHAT is a station that seems to be where blacks who are losers can blame whitey, the govt, or anyone convenient. The only thing they're in pursuit of is a paycheck. If you are white or a black man or woman who has worked hard and taken responsibility then you are denegrated. That's why almost no one here listens to 'HAT as long as we continue to get reports that they continue the hate speech. In the end it controls those who would rather scapegoat than escape the dependency. You are someone who appreciates what you have. Welcome aboard. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:08:00 10/08/02 Tue
    • Is white right wing radio any different? Not really, if you are objective. Both types of radio pander to the lowest common denominator of each race. I'm surprised no one else here can see that. It's really obvious, one only has to listen to a WPHT or WHAT for a short time to figure that out. (NT) -- Mary Katherine, 17:39:25 10/09/02 Wed
      • Which "white right wing radio" are you referring to? Please define and give examples so that we can "be objective". Thank you. (NT) -- William, 20:41:31 10/09/02 Wed
      • Are you related to 'Richard'? Or are we just fortunate enough to be subjected to both of you simultaneuosly? Listen and LEARN. Smell the freakin' coffee. GAACCK. Do you support Hillarious R. Klintoon? Just curious. (NT) -- JL (aren't they funny?), 20:58:56 10/09/02 Wed
      • "Dr" Reggie Bryant -- LJP, 12:32:51 10/14/02 Mon
        • Don't let him get to you. There are people who get away with bullying others because they have access to the microphone and other believers who have the same set of values, or lack thereof. I give you the Muslim militants/Islamofascists and their leaders and the less militant but cooperative Muslims who follow and support them as an example. You cannot argue with them. As one wise man allegedly said sometime in history long ago "A wise man must never argue with a fool. Observers nearby will often not be able to tell the difference." (NT) -- William, 13:48:23 10/14/02 Mon
    • A 'paycheck'? As much as I luv ya, SG, I feel you are in error here. An 'ENTITLEMENT' or 'HANDOUT'? ... absolutely! (NT) -- JL (let's call a spade a spade), 21:20:22 10/09/02 Wed
      • I was speaking of the WHAT folks, not their callers about whom I agree based on what I have personally heard. But what do playing cards or garden shovels have to do with this? [grin?] (NT) -- SG, 22:57:25 10/09/02 Wed
        • Smilin' back atcha! (NT) -- JL, 22:36:08 10/11/02 Fri
  • Comment: THIS POST WAS BROUGHT TO THE TOP BECAUSE LOUIS POSTED A QUERY on 6/10. I dare say that few here have time or desire to listen to that kind of radio. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The above post was better left for the Philly Talk Radio board.), 18:54:10 06/11/03 Wed

  ---

• I guess issuing a parking violation is more important in New York than saving someone from choking. Friendly courageous citizens; stinking unfriendly city government policies. About 2 weeks ago they gave a man an $83 citation for misuse of a milk crate-- he was resting and sitting on it. I hope I find out if this ticket is ever voided. -- SurveyGuy, 22:09:34 06/08/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Does this story mean that a police official was nearby ticketing the vehicle while the nurse was saving a choking victim? I guess focussing on the task at hand -- writing the ticket -- was a higher priority in Bloomberg's new New York. Good thing there are "administrative procedures" to address this IF the guy can "make a convincing case." He shouldn't have been ticketed in the first place if they didn't have idiots writing tickets under threats of disciplinary action. Now he has to waste a day in court and probably be insulted if the traffic courts in NY are anything like Philly. I don't think I'll be visiting New York again in my life or any time soon unless it can't be helped. --SurveyGuy
  
  
  http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/90350p-82133c.html
  Ticket's no choke
  RN saves man, and gets fined
  
  By OWEN MORITZ, DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
  
  Registered nurse Marty Rosenblum holds double-parking summons he got after performing Heimlich maneuver to save Jayson Michalski who had been choking on pizza.
  
  Comic book collector Marty Rosenblum played a real-life superhero, jumping out of his car to save a man from choking on a Brooklyn street.
  His reward? A ticket for double-parking.
  
  The registered nurse at Jamaica Hospital was on the way to his favorite comic book store in Park Slope on Wednesday when he turned onto Seventh Ave. A young man who looked familiar was in front of a pizza shop, choking.
  
  "He was crying and trying to spit out the piece," Rosenblum recalled. "It was obvious something had caught in his throat."
  
  Rosenblum slammed on the brakes and ran to the man, Jayson Michalski, a 25-year-old employee of Comics Plus, and applied the Heimlich maneuver.
  
  "He expelled a piece of cheese a good 10 feet," said the nurse.
  
  Michalski, father of a 2-month-old infant, said his choking episode came on faster than a speeding bullet.
  
  "I was talking to somebody," said Michalski. "Suddenly I was choking and gagging. "Thank God, Marty pulled up."
  
  After tending to Michalski for less than five minutes, by both men's calculation, Rosenblum returned to the car to find a traffic enforcement agent writing a ticket for double-parking, a $110 offense.
  
  It's little solace to the 43-year-old Rosenblum, married and the father of two, that the traffic agent was apologetic.
  
  "I'm so sorry to give you this ticket," Rosenblum quoted the agent as saying. It is unclear whether the agent witnessed the lifesaving incident.
  
  He said the agent even urged him to fight the ticket, which Rosenblum said he intends to do.
  
  NYPD Deputy Chief Michael Collins said Rosenblum can get the ticket waived if his case is convincing enough.
  
  "There are administrative processes available to those who may have been issued summonses in error or for those who may have a legitimate reason for violating these regulations," Collins said.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

  ---

• The French are now getting a dose of what many of us know to be true. It couldn't happen to nicer people. Maybe it will effect an attitude change. -- SurveyGuy, 15:22:00 06/06/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32935

  ---

  Islamists stir up French university
  'I've traveled 1,700 kilometers so I don't have to see these people'

  ---

  
  Posted: June 6, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • The French Government have funded the building of Mosques for the Muslims residing in France. There are approximately (estimate) 6.5 Million Muslims of 60 Million French (more than one in ten). I have the impression that the French, including Jaques Chirac, are fearful of the Muslims and fearful of violent terrorist attacks and war with Islam. France has experienced attacks and bombings back a few years, including in Paris itself. France was also in the thick of it in Algeria more than once, a hotbed of Muslim avarice, as well as in the Ivory Coast and some French colonies in Africa. (NT) -- William, 02:51:57 06/08/03 Sun
    • Sometimes poetic justice comes in a different way than one would expect. Unfortunately, the U.S. has been far too permissive regarding immigration. U.S. blacks have their own version of Islam, yet many still condone/excuse the violence while claiming to love peace. How can you tell when a Muslim is lying? When he is talking to anyone but another Muslim. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:36:16 06/08/03 Sun

  ---

• This is news because it happens so seldom. What would you do? I know I would not have to thnk twice about returning any amount of money. However, I can understand the temptation to those who have little. Iwish they would have given her a small reward, however, just as a token thanks like $50 or $100. -- SurveyGuy, 20:38:16 06/05/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Woman finds bank bag with $1,700, returns it
  By Shanna McCord UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER June 4, 2003
  
  VISTA – It was the temptation of all temptations.
  
  A plastic bank bag full of cash sat in the middle of the street and no one was there to see Michelle Tamayo pick it up.
  
  She could have kept the $1,700 inside. She thought of all the bills it would pay off. She thought about her mother, dying of cancer and overwhelmed by hospital expenses.
  
  Just one problem.
  
  "The feelings of guilt would last a lifetime," Tamayo said. "It's not worth it."
  
  She turned the money over to its rightful owners at a Vista Napa Auto Parts store.
  
  Police say such acts of kindness are not unheard of. But most often, authorities say, it's finders keepers.
  
  Tamayo said she came across the cash while hurrying to visit her mother at a hospice during her lunch break Monday afternoon. The small bank deposit bag caught her eye.
  
  Tamayo stopped her car to pick it up, and discovered it contained a stack of bills and a cash deposit slip belonging to Napa Auto Parts.
  
  Tamayo's mind was racing. She thought about her major expenses – rent, car payment, insurance, food and clothing for her two young children. She thought hard about the comfort the extra money would bring to her life as an office manager making modest wages.
  
  Then she stopped thinking about herself.
  
  "I thought someone probably put it on top of their car and drove off," she said. "Someone could lose their job over this and I'd hate for a family to go through that."
  
  She brought the bag to her mother's hospice room, where the two joked that it was possibly a gift from God. But they both agreed it must be returned.
  
  "God can send us a check in the mail," quipped Tamayo's mother, Judy Secrest.
  
  With or without Mom's advice, Tamayo admitted that the temptation was strong. Police agree.
  
  "Normally when people find something on the street that has monetary value, turning it in to the police is not their first thought," said San Diego police spokesman Bill Robinson. "We don't hear about it very often."
  
  Tamayo said the manager at Napa Auto Parts was surprised when she showed up at the store with the money in hand.
  
  "We are grateful for honest people in Vista," manager Heather Stiner said yesterday. "It was the right thing to do and we appreciate it."
  
  Tamayo said she did not get a reward. She doesn't care. She figures that honesty is its own reward.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I would have returned all of the money. I have gone through this numerous times in my own life. I cannot understand why people are not more honest and return that which does not belong to them, especially when the owner is clearly identified. I have been down on my luck and poor, or impoverished as well and I still would not keep what does not belong to me. If it is no mine, I will not keep it. I will seek Identification and return it to the owner. If I cannot find the owner through channels after some time then I see no problem with keeping it at that point. (NT) -- William, 04:39:00 06/06/03 Fri
  • I've had some odd reactions when I try to be honest in similar fashion -- there have been times when a salesperson forgot to ring up some of my items before bagging them, and I'd point this out when I checked the receipt. One was completely dumbfounded, saying how "rare" it was. I just remember my first job in high school as a cashier, where I got fired because a spotter made it through my aisle without paying for something hidden under the cart. I wouldn't want someone else to get fired who really needs the job. (NT) -- Spock, 10:52:52 06/10/03 Tue
    • I have often corrected errors made in my favor. Such honest is usually regarded with suspicion that gratitude once they understand you are trying to help. For me it is usually too much change like an extra $10. You should see their attitude when you try to return it. I have also reported someone I spotted stealing merchandise. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:59:10 06/11/03 Wed

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• It's not a flawed exam -- It's a flawed education. Let's first have the teachers take the exam. Let's see, ~61% needed and 6 tries (or more). Hmmm, ought to be possible. Only a 20% failure rate, so 80% can do it. -- SurveyGuy, 15:37:38 05/31/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59993-2003May30.html?nav=hptoc_ed
  As High School Exit Exams Cost Diplomas, Anger Rises
  Critics Say Tests, Curricula Mismatched
  By Michael A. Fletcher, Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, May 31, 2003; Page A01
  
  
  With a 3.0 grade point average anchoring a solid academic record, Robyn Collins, 18, has big plans once she graduates from Reed High School in Sparks, Nev. She intends to spend several months in National Guard boot camp before taking advantage of a state scholarship to go on to college.
  
  The only problem is that she might not graduate from high school.
  
  Collins is among 2,195 students -- 12 percent of the state's senior class -- who have completed all their course work requirements but will not receive high school diplomas this spring because they have not passed the math portion of Nevada's high school graduation test. Instead, they will be awarded certificates of attendance, which often are not recognized by employers or four-year colleges.
  
  Instituted as part of the reforms designed to shore up sagging confidence in public education, the latest generation of high school exit exams is stirring a backlash across the country. Legislators and educators in a growing number of states, including Nevada, Florida, Massachusetts, California, North Carolina and Florida, are facing pressure to delay or scrap the tests because of the number of students who are failing them.
  
  The brewing discontent highlights public ambivalence toward high-stakes testing. More than 80 percent of Americans say tests are a good way to measure whether students and schools are meeting standards. But just as many also say that schools should not rely on tests because some children are simply poor test-takers, according to Public Agenda, a nonpartisan public policy research firm.
  
  Test opponents say students should not be held accountable to one academic measure, contending they often fail the tests because they have under-qualified teachers or were never taught the material covered by the exams. In some places, special-needs students and students who speak English as a second language also struggle with the exams.
  
  "I've cried so much about this test," said Collins, who learned yesterday that she had failed the exam for at least the fifth time. "I'm not a stupid kid. . . . It is just that in my opinion, the stuff on the test doesn't equate to anything that I've learned in school."
  
  Test proponents, however, contend that the exams are easy enough that the vast majority of students should pass them. They note that there are multiple opportunities to take the test and that many states offer remedial instruction, and they contend that high school graduates should demonstrate competence in basic skills.
  
  Twenty-four states either require students to pass exit exams to earn a high school diploma or have such tests in the works, according to the Center on Education Policy, a D.C.-based education research organization. Virginia is implementing a new exam scheduled to take effect in 2004; Maryland will add a new test in 2008. The District has no exam planned.
  
  The tests typically cover basic subjects, including math, English and writing, that educators, business owners and others have determined should be mastered by any high school graduate.
  
  Earlier exit exams were aimed at ensuring that high school graduates were minimally competent in reading and basic math. But states have moved toward more rigorous exams that measure more complex skills that are supposed to be taught in high school, including more complicated reading questions, algebra and geometry.
  
  The exams are not part of the No Child Left Behind legislation enacted in 2002, which requires schools to give standardized tests in reading and math to students in grades three through eight.
  
  "Policymakers realized that high schools had been neglected in much of the school reform movement," said Keith Gayler, associate director of the Center on Education Policy, who tracks exit exams across the country. "They were looking for some sort of reform to put in place."
  
  But with thousands of students being denied high school diplomas they would have otherwise received, the reform has ignited opposition from students and parents who believe the tests do not reflect the curriculum covered in school.
  
  "There is definitely a disconnect," agreed Nevada State School Superintendent Jack McLaughlin. "I believe students will give you back what they're taught. But when this many students haven't passed a test after numbers of tries, something is not right."
  
  Florida community leaders and legislators launched a series of protests in April aimed at forcing a moratorium on the tests after state officials announced that nearly 13,000 students -- including a disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos -- would not graduate as scheduled this year because they had not passed at least one of the exams.
  
  The protesters are calling for a boycott of the state's lottery, major theme parks and the citrus industry unless the state backs off the exams, which became graduation requirements this year. So far, Gov. Jeb Bush (R) has brushed aside those threats, calling the tests integral to an education accountability process that has led to steady improvement in student achievement since 1998.
  
  Seven of the nearly 400 school districts in Massachusetts promised to defy state officials and award local diplomas to students who failed the state's high school graduation test after meeting all other graduation requirements. They issued their threats after a federal judge rejected an attempt by test opponents to remove the exams as a graduation requirement.
  
  Five thousand of the state's 60,000 high school seniors have not passed the tests, which became a graduation requirement this year. Students who do not pass the tests but meet all other graduation requirements are issued "certificates of attainment," which are frowned upon by employers and colleges.
  
  California's State Board of Education is considering whether to implement its graduation test as scheduled next year after a study found that the test has spurred widespread improvement in local school curricula but will result in 20 percent of the state's high school seniors being denied diplomas. In other states, including Alaska and Washington, officials have pushed back the effective date of graduation exams or proposed modifying tests to focus more squarely on basic skills.
  
  "People are wondering whether it is the students' fault that they can't pass these tests," Gayler said. "I think people aren't sure. But, meanwhile, there are serious economic and other consequences for the students who can't pass them."
  
  Nevada students are required to pass tests in reading, writing and math as a condition for graduation. Officials said that fewer than 2 percent of the state's seniors have failed the reading and writing portions. But the 60-question math exam has proven much more difficult.
  
  Some officials believe the test may have contributed to a recent increase in the dropout rate, as many students just give up on school, believing they will never pass the exam.
  
  In fast-growing Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, almost a quarter of the high school seniors had not passed the exam before the most recent round of testing on May 20. Part of the problem is that many students -- as many as 40 percent statewide -- have never taken algebra or geometry, which are included on the test. Also, school officials said, the fast-growing and financially strapped school district struggles to find qualified math teachers.
  
  "We have a constant effort to provide training for teachers," said Agustin Orci, deputy superintendent for instruction in Clark County schools. "But the attrition rate is high. There are many, many positions in the casino industry here that pay the same or more as a teaching job."
  
  The Nevada Assembly passed a measure earlier this year that would have suspended the math portion of the exam until educators audited it to ensure that it reflected the curriculum. The proposal, however, was derailed in the state Senate.
  
  Proponents of the Nevada test say it is not that difficult. Students must earn a score of 304 out of a possible 500 to pass the multiple-choice exam. And even if students have not been exposed to all of the items on the test, some education officials believe the exam includes plenty of material with which students should be familiar.
  
  "The kids don't have to know everything to get a passing score," said Debbie Smith, chairwoman of a Nevada committee that sets educational standards. "More than anything, I'm worried about turning these kids out into the work world unprepared."
  
  But others say one test alone cannot measure that. Tyler Douglass, 18, a senior at Cimmaron-Memorial High School in Las Vegas, has been a solid student: He has a B average, has taken a smattering of honors classes and is qualified for Nevada's Millennium Scholarship, which would award him as much as $10,000 in college scholarships over four years.
  
  But like many students in Las Vegas, he has not passed the state's math exam.
  
  "Because you can't get through this one exam, you can't get a diploma?" said his mother, Jill Douglass. "It is really easy for people to say our high school students should know this, this and this. And we do need standards. But you can't expect people to pass an exam if they are not being taught all the material on the test. It's a flawed exam, that's the problem."
  
  

  
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• Now here's something different ... pretty interesting, but where might it lead if it works? -- SurveyGuy, 18:32:26 05/19/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  I'll Be Watching You (click for RealAudio music to accompany reading of article)
  
  http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2694090,00.html
  
  Pentagon System Hopes to Identify Walks
  
  Monday May 19, 2003 9:09 PM
  Pentagon system hopes to identify walks<< Pentagon anti-terror surveillance system hopes to identify people by the way they walk
  By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN,Associated Press Writer
  
  WASHINGTON (AP) - Watch your step! The Pentagon is developing a radar-based device that can identify people by the way they walk, for use in a new antiterrorist surveillance system.
  
  Operating on the theory that an individual's walk is as unique as a signature, the Pentagon has financed a research project at the Georgia Institute of Technology that has been 80 to 95 percent successful in identifying people.
  
  If the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, orders a prototype, the individual "gait signatures" of people could become part of the data to be linked together in a vast surveillance system the Pentagon agency calls Total Information Awareness.
  
  That system already has raised privacy alarms on both ends of the political spectrum, and Congress in February barred its use against American citizens without further congressional review.
  
  Nevertheless, government documents reviewed by The Associated Press show that scores of major defense contractors and prominent universities applied last year for the first research contracts to design and build the surveillance and analysis system.
  
  DARPA is the federal agency that helped develop the Internet as a research tool for universities and government contractors. Its newest project is massive by any measure.
  
  In its advice to contractors, DARPA declared, ``The amounts of data that will need to be stored and accessed will be unprecedented, measured in petabytes.''
  
  One petabyte would dwarf most existing databases; it's roughly equal to 50 times the Library of Congress, which holds more than 18 million books.
  
  Conceived and managed by retired Adm. John Poindexter, the TIA surveillance system is based on his theory that "terrorists must engage in certain transactions to coordinate and conduct attacks against Americans, and these transactions form patterns that may be detectable."
  
  DARPA said the goal is to draw conclusions and predictions about terrorists from databases that record such transactions as passport applications, visas, work permits, driver's licenses, car rentals, airline ticket purchases, arrests or reports of suspicious activities.
  
  Other databases DARPA wants to access include financial, education, medical and housing records and biometric identification databases based on fingerprints, irises, facial shapes and gait.
  
  TIA is an effort to design breakthrough software "for treating these databases as a virtual, centralized grand database" capable of being quickly mined by counterintelligence officers even though the data will be held in many places, many languages and many formats, DARPA documents say.
  
  One goal is to provide "focused warnings within an hour after a triggering event occurs," the documents say.
  
  Poindexter's plan would integrate some projects DARPA has been working on for several years, including research headed by Gene Greneker at Georgia Tech.
  
  At a cost of less than $1 million over the past three years, he has been aiming a 1-foot-square radar dish at 100 test volunteers to record how they walk. Elsewhere at Georgia Tech, DARPA is funding other researchers to use video cameras and computers to try to develop distinctive gait signatures.
  
  "One of the nice things about radar is we see through bad weather, darkness, even a heavy robe shrouding the legs, and video cameras can't," Greneker said in an interview. "At 600 feet we can do quite well."
  
  And the target doesn't have to be doing a Michael Jackson moonwalk to be distinctive because the radar detects small frequency shifts in the reflected signal off legs, arms and the torso as they move in a combination of different speeds and directions.
  
  "There's a signature that's somewhat unique to the individual," Greneker said. "We've demonstrated proof of this concept."
  
  The researchers are anticipating ways the system might be fooled.
  
  "A woman switching from flats to high heels probably wouldn't change her signature significantly,'' Greneker said. ``But if she switched to combat boots, that might have a difference."
  
  The system could be used by embassy security officers to conclude that a shadowy figure observed a few hundred feet away at night or in heavy clothing on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday was the same person and should be investigated further to see if he was casing the building for an attack, Greneker said.
  
  At a restricted facility, the technology could warn security officers that an approaching person was probably not an employee by comparing his gait with those on file. "And we now know how to detect people who are carrying heavy packages, which could include a 25-pound bomb in a backpack," Greneker said.
  
  Greneker hasn't gotten caught up in the privacy debate. "We are research and development people. We think about what's possible, not what the government will do with it. That's somebody else's job. And this isn't a weapons system."
  
  DARPA contracting records made available through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a privacy advocacy group, show Poindexter agreed to fund 26 research projects and rejected 154 others through last Dec. 4. Other DARPA contract award data were released under FOIA to the Center for Public Integrity, an ethics advocacy group.
  
  One of the largest was a contract for up to $27 million to Veridian Systems Division of Arlington, Va., to design software to allow "intelligence analysts and decision makers to jointly participate in the development of a full range of contingencies."
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I'm calling the psychic hotline. I'll try Miss Cleo. What? You say they are no longer in business? Okay, I'll try Sylvia Brown from Montel Williams' show. Maybe she can tell me who is the bad guy in advance of an attack whereas this technology and its questionable reliability requires observing a suspected terrorist for some time before determining that they might be a terrorist up to no good and even then you still don't know and you still have to guess. Maybe Sylvia Brown or even the Amazing Kreskin can help. (NT) -- William, 23:48:11 05/19/03 Mon
    • I believe the idea initially is to use it in controlled areas, when people who are supposed to be there are know to the computer.Hence when someone is spotted who is "unrecognized" a warning flag goes up. Then later, if known terrorists can be entered into the system, perhaps from some video fotage or something, the capabilities will grow as information is acquired. Seems a little too theoretical for me at this time. Perhaps they will make you walk and be videoed when you renew your driver's license. [grin] (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:56:38 05/20/03 Tue
  • Mama DID tell me those 2 busted ankles would come back to haunt me one day. (NT) -- JL, 21:49:40 05/20/03 Tue

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• A Entertaining Commentary Writer -- SurveyGuy, 07:45:57 05/18/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  I have come across this young man's commentaries - Vox Day. See his archive at http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=175
  
  The dude has a really bad haircut, but a different and engrossing writing style on a wide variety of topics. Enjoy or not as you choose.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

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• An interesting commentary, very much like we have been saying for the past two years -- SurveyGuy, 07:19:45 05/18/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32627
  
  
  

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  Nuts shaken from same tree
  
  

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  Posted: May 17, 2003
  1:00 a.m. Eastern
  
  
  
  
  
  You would think that Muslims everywhere would be horribly embarrassed that, in the name of their religion, a handful of criminals are running around the world slaughtering innocent civilians. Why is the Muslim world not rising up in a single voice to condemn these killings and demand that the criminals stop, or at the very least, stop defiling the name of the Muslim religion?
  
  Suppose there were a band of Christian criminals, running around the world targeting Muslims with car bombs, and fully-loaded airplanes, demanding that the non-Christian-infidels vacate the planet. I can't imagine that the rest of the Christian world would be as quiet as is the Muslim world. I can't imagine that the leaders of the Christian world would look the other way, or send money to the families of the Christian-criminals whose sons and daughters died while committing murder. I can't imagine that the Christian community would allow a band of hate-filled, low-life criminals to paint for the world, the bloody picture of what their religion actually is.
  
  Silence from the Muslim world is nothing less than approval of the criminals' actions.
  
  Sure, there have been a few Muslim leaders who condemn the terrorists' actions. But there has been no organized, determined effort to put an end to the senseless slaughter by the Muslim religion. Muslims could stop the foolishness, if they chose to do so. Someone knows where Osama bin Laden is. Someone knows where every terrorists cell is located. Every terrorist has a family, friends, a source of money. Every Muslim terrorist – since they act in the name of the Muslim religion – is affiliated with a Muslim spiritual leader. Why is the Muslim community not tightening the noose around the necks of these criminals?
  
  Come to think of it, why is the mainstream environmental community not tightening the noose around the necks of the domestic terrorists who perpetrate their crimes in the name of the environment? The Earth Liberation Front, and their sister organization, the Animal Liberation Front, are cut from the same hate-filled, low-life criminal cloth as the Muslim terrorists. Someone knows who burned the ski lodge in Vail, Colo. Someone knows the people who committed every act of eco-terrorism in this country. The mainstream environmental community could put an end to this foolishness, if they chose to do so. Why are they so silent? Why do they look the other way?
  
  Terrorism is terrorism, whether committed by a religious nut, or an environmental nut. Both types of nuts have one thing in common: They are either too arrogant, or ignorant, to understand the first principle of civilized behavior. The principle is simply this: Any right that I claim for myself, I must freely grant to all others.
  
  If Osama claims the right to embrace the religion he chooses, he must be willing to grant that same right to all others. Of course, he has not yet discovered that this principle is the basis of civilized behavior, and, therefore, his behavior is far from civilized. Osama is not alone in his failure to discover this principle. It is far too simple, too profound, for bomb-wielding, Molotov-cocktail-tossing criminals to notice or care about.
  
  It is a principle that has escaped the notice of many people who claim the right to choose how they wish to live, but then insist that everyone else live as they dictate, denying to everyone else the right they claim for themselves. The nuts that congregate under the ELF/ALF tree have every right to choose not to drive SUVs. But to inflict terror on those who make a different choice, is at once, the height of arrogance, and the depth of ignorance.
  
  Muslims who choose to embrace Islam have every right to do so. To refuse to grant to all others the same right to choose – even if their choice is different – may be the result of arrogance or ignorance, but it is certainly uncivilized.
  
  If the Muslim world fails to rise above the image that Osama bin Laden, and his fellow criminals are painting, the rest of the world will eventually lose the great Muslim heritage. The rest of the world will continue to blunder its way toward civilization, leaving the eco-nuts and the religious-nuts to pretend they are martyrs in their backward-looking dreamworld.
  
  The civilized world is eager to move forward, to find ways to cooperate, to expand friendship and commerce, to broaden educational horizons for everyone, and to elevate prosperity for every person on earth, to help all people everywhere know the individual freedom that the Creator intended for all creatures on this earth – even humans.
  
  The eco-nuts and the religious nuts are trying to stop the unstoppable flow of civilized progress. Both Islam, and environmentalism need to remove the obstacles to progress, by cleaning the nuts from their midst.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • After 9/11 took place anyone who said or expressed that they thought that Islam was a religion of violence, bloodlust, and murder was branded a racist, xenophobe, paranoid, hateful, and on and on. President Bush repeatedly claimed that Islam is a religion of peace. We know that one of the tenets of Islam as preached by Mullahs and others is that it is perfectly acceptable to lie to the infidels, anyone who is not Muslim. We also know that Muslims are being shovel fed hate filled rhetoric in the mosques and in radio sermons, especially in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian areas, and elsewhere. (NT) -- William, 23:56:34 05/19/03 Mon
  • I see no clear example of Islam as a religion of peace. All I see is Islam as a religion of violence, murder, domination, intolerance, and hell bent on dominating the world and establishing Islamic rule and killing all "infidels" while working toward that end. (NT) -- William, 23:57:43 05/19/03 Mon
  • If Jews and Christians EVER allowed that their respective religions should permit them to lie to others in the name of sidling up to them so they could convert them or kill them the Useless Nothings would have a fit! Where's the fit here? ~Sigh~ (NT) -- JL, 22:31:36 05/20/03 Tue

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• Perhaps Carter has breathed too much peanut dust . . . or found an old stash of Billy-Beer. Naahh, just more liberal nonsense and lies eventually shown to be so. This time when the Butcher of Havana shows his true colors yet again. Note the parallels elsewhere with "blame America" for Castro's brutality. -- SurveyGuy, 16:36:14 05/17/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Carter Silent On Castro's Crackdown
  Dave Eberhart Friday May 16, 2003
  
  Jimmy Carter is the self-appointed globetrotter on behalf of human rights.
  
  But when Carter friend Fidel Castro unleashed a brutal wave of repression recently, that included extradjudicial executions, Carter’s reaction was silence, followed by muted criticism, and finalized with a stinging criticism of . . . the United States.
  
  On just about the one year anniversary of Carter’s historic trip to Cuba, his new amigo Fidel Castro rounded up 75 political dissidents and independent journalists and packed them off to jail for 28 years each.
  
  Although formally accused of conspiring with U.S. diplomats to undermine the socialist state, the apparent crime of almost all was their championing the so-called “Varela Project,” a petition calling for greater basic liberties – and the absolute centerpiece of Carter’s controversial mission-impossible-without-portfolio to the communist island.
  
  The Cuban president followed up by ordering the execution of three men accused of terrorism in an unsuccessful hijacking of a passenger ferry headed to the United States. The three summarily went before a firing squad April 11 without so much as a final farewell to family and loved ones.
  
  On March 21 when word of the initial arrests and detentions of the Varela dissidents hit the world media big-time, Carter issued only an anemic press release:
  
  “I am deeply concerned about reports of detentions of Cuban citizens known for supporting the Varela Project, promoting human rights, and practicing independent journalism. The international community supports their rights to the protections afforded by the Cuban constitution. I call on the Cuban government to respect those rights and to refrain from detaining or harassing citizens who are expressing their views peacefully.”
  
  But Carter also seemed to place part of the onus of Castro’s human rights abuses on the shoulders of the U.S.:
  
  “I also am troubled by the rising tension between the Cuban government and the U.S. Interests Section in Havana. I urge my own government to work with the Cuban government to deflate those tensions and establish a relationship of mutual respect.”
  
  Later, after the draconian sentences were handed down, Carter certainly did not rush onto the Sunday news programs to express the expected emotions of disgust, disappointment and betrayal-in-the-first-degree.
  
  In fact, to this day there is still nothing on the Carter Center website about the Castro debacle – other than that same lackluster and dated press release quoted above.
  
  ’Needless to Say’
  
  Although Carter says he has written a letter to Castro condemning the dictator’s tidal wave of repression and urging him to cut back the sentences, he adds that he has no plans to revisit Cuba.
  
  Other than that, there’s not much more that Carter has put on the record, and what there is remains strangely bloodless:
  
  “Needless to say, I have been very disappointed by what has occurred in Cuba,” Carter said when he finally broke silence. “The dissident movement has been severely crippled, and I would presume Draconian measures adopted by Castro will be maintained.”
  
  “Many of the dissidents, democrats, freedom fighters and human rights heroes with whom we met have been arrested and given extremely severe and unconscionable punishment,” Carter added. “This has been an indication, I believe, that people working for improved human rights situations in Cuba have become more effective and more of a threat to Castro. It is obvious that he has decided to clamp down with extreme severity and, I have to admit, with a great deal of success.”
  
  Carter opined that Castro’s “deplorable” actions have meant a real setback to efforts of moderate voices on both sides of the Straits of Florida to improve relations between Washington and Havana.
  
  When asked to comment about potential administration moves to further sanction Cuba by cutting off personal remittances – estimated at $1 billion a year – sent by Cuban-Americans to their families living in Cuba, or to cut off charter flights from Miami, New York and Los Angeles that shuttle Cubans back for short visits to the island, Carter said:
  
  “All this hurts the people of Cuba. None of it hurts Castro. As a matter of fact, it just strengthens his hand and gives him an excuse to punish the people and also blame the United States for [Cuba’s] economic failures.”
  
  “Certainly for the time being, everything is coming to a halt,” Carter summed up.
  
  The Past is Prologue
  
  When then President Carter signaled his hopes of normalizing U.S.-Cuban relations, Castro responded with the unseemly and insulting 1980 Mariel exodus, in which the dictator sent criminals and psychiatric patients to the United States along with thousands of other fleeing Cubans.
  
  Out of office in 1996, the ever-hopeful Carter stood on the sidelines and applauded President Clinton’s reluctance to support a bill tightening the embargo. Castro responded by shooting down two unarmed planes operated by the Miami-based Cuban-American Brothers to the Rescue. The thaw quickly went back to the chill.
  
  The great Carter pilgrimage to Cuba was to follow the same pattern – only this time the wily Castro was only a bit more subtle and circumspect before plunging the dagger into Carter’s back and twisting.
  

  
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• Maybe it will take some crazed parent shooting a principal to death before these little Napoleans stop picking on kids . . . -- SurveyGuy (not recommending -- just predicting), 16:06:17 05/17/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
  Girl gets 'unexcused absence' for Bush event
  Student sings in choir at presidential speech, punished with 'D' grades
  Posted: May 17, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  An Indiana eighth-grader was punished with an unexcused absence from her public school after taking the day off to sing in a children's choir for an event featuring the president of the United States.
  
  As reported by WRTV in Indianapolis, Brianna Tull missed school Tuesday to sing with the Indianapolis Children's Choir at Bush's appearance at the Indiana State Fairgrounds. Even though the Westfield-Washington School District allows for absences when the student is having an "educational experience," sharing the stage with the president did not meet that criterion.
  
  As punishment, Tull was told she was not allowed to earn credit for homework, tests and quizzes given that day. It's the equivalent of getting all 'Ds' for the day, the TV station said. This even though the Tulls notified the school beforehand that the girl would be absent.
  
  Brianna's father, Ken Tull, told WRTV: "It's totally ridiculous that you can't take your kids out of school for something this important. The president doesn't come here every day."
  
  District Superintendent Mark Keen had a different take on the event.
  
  "I'm not sure what was gained from an educational value," Keen told WRTV. "We're in school for 180 days to provide an education. Going to see the president is certainly an experience, but what did the child learn from that?"
  
  The choir sang before Bush addressed about 7,000 people at the fairgrounds coliseum, touting his latest tax-cut plan.
  
  Brianna said the presidential event was, in fact, educational.
  
  "I bet that I'm going to remember this forever and tell my kids. It's an historical thing," she said.
  
  Meanwhile, school districts in California appear to have different standards for approving absences. According to a story in the Oakland Tribune, several hundred Oakland and Berkeley public-school students traveled to Sacramento last week to protest against cuts in education funding on the steps of the state Capitol – on a school day.
  
  The paper reports a few dozen busloads of students, ranging in age from first-graders to high-school seniors, took part in the "Education Not Incarceration" rally. The rally reportedly was organized by the children's teachers.
  

  
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  • And people wonder why kids have screwed up priorities today....apples don't fall far from the tree, especially in good ole Indiany.... (NT) -- Spock, 12:36:45 06/16/03 Mon

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• apartment for rent in stockholm (sweden). -- Daniel, 11:45:47 05/16/03 Fri (NoHost/212.247.19.156)
  A nice furnished apartment to rent for tourists in stockholm.200 euro week..50 euro day..
  Daniel.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • I need somewhere quiet to stay for a few weeks. Do you take dollars instead? (NT) -- S.H., 01:48:59 05/17/03 Sat

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• Exxon staff reply to Surveyguy and JL. Oil people can be quite blunt - I've left out the stronger replies. Enjoy. -- Chris Henry, 00:28:30 05/15/03 Thu (cache10-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.29)
  These 'stay home, small town, never been out of state' types really get me. They look down on guys like us who work in some foreign shithole desert or swamp, but they soon bellyache when their gas goes up one cent or they can't get the favorite brand of bean in their laatte. They make me sick.
  
  Tell them that Bob Hernandez of Parsippany, NJ, will be home on leave in June and would be glad to meet them anywhere they choose so he can explain to them where their friggin gas comes from.
  
  Don't these guys have real names. Like, are they ashamed of their families or something. Did they ever have families? SurveyGay rhymes better
  
  This surveyguy, (I wouldnlt work in Arabia any more than I'd work for the government), it must be good to have such fine principles and be able to choose where to work. Most working stiffs take what they can get. You go to college to study Petrochem, you don't get the chance to work in some fag advertising agency or be a fashion photographer. Maybe he's on welfare. Sits in front of TV all day eating chips and turns down offers from Wall St.
  
  Chris, you always ask awkward questions and I usually disagree with your answers. But these people haven't begun to figure out what's going on in the world. Probably haven't figured out why they need to dump every morning.
  
  Small minds, mean spirits, a bad combination
  
  JL is obviously an expert on Saudi Arabia, must be the Readers Digest article he read. Maybe he'd like to come with me on a 10-day geo survey in the Empty Quarter in 130-140 temps, and then tell me I'm really a Muslim. He’d better bring a compass.
  
  I was down at Al Hamra this morning, helping out. Not a place you want to be. Makes you think. Last night they were still picking body parts out of the trees. There was a Chevy bent like a soda can. A kid’s bike wedged thru an upstairs door. Surveyguy has all the answers. Tell us why it really happened. Then tell the people who died. What a jerk.
  
  Chris, why do you talk to these people? Newsgroups like this are the dark underbelly of American politics. Look how they immediately say you are anti-US, anti-American. Typical "Patriots". Drive around in a Suburban with a big flag out the window. Call their children Hank, even the girls. Hate government, taxes, Gun Control, homosexuals, Democrats, Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, and obviously Expats. Can be described as 'Festering pustules on America's butt". Who said that? Me probably.
  
  JL is too fussy to work in rough old Saudi. He leaves that to suckers like me. He thinks that the gas in his tank comes from rat piss. He won’t go to foreign countries because they talk funny and you can't get a good burger. If everyone was like him, we would still be scratching beans out of the ground in Plymouth MA.
  
  What I find depressing about the JL reply is that he dismisses the human story just to attack the political point. Politics first, people last, just like a terrorist.
  
  What do you expect, they are from the Northeast. Like you, Chris.
  
  Surveygay wont work in Saudi, and neither will I, but I’m here. Shit happens.
  
  I was moved by the account, Chris, and we all have our own story to tell of that night. Your problem is your last para. Should of said “And they all lived happily ever after” ;-)
  
  These people are all the same, they just expect us to keep the oil flowing but are not interested in the crap we have to put up with. We should send our oil to the Far East where they’re at least grateful, let the ingrates back home pay $10 a gallon and then they’ll start to think about the real cost.
  
  That JL is real ignorant. Because we live here, that makes us Muslims? So when we work in Nigeria, that makes us Witch-doctors? And Moose-worshippers in Alaska? Dream on, JL. We do the job, we get paid, we get laid. End of story.
  
  Where does that guy get off, picking and choosing where he works? Like he’s always turning down big deals from Hollywood? Like he needs a secretary to stop headhunters bugging him? The man with the dream CV, I’m honored to have met him.
  
  They sit on their asses next to the a/c and make smart-ass comments about how we’re like working for government and how we deserve the towel-heads as friends, and then come home to watch baseball on TV with a 6-pack. We pump oil out of the ground in heat you could broil a T-bone, and get blown up and shot at when we come home. Maybe they’re not as stupid as we are.
  

  
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  • I would have expected no less. I've worked with lots of people who used to work for Bechtel many years ago so I understand the "family" feeling - they called Bechtel "the old man.". We all make choices. I chose to avoid engineering jobs finally because then there was a 5-year cycle of work-no work in aerospace. We still say that to use such tragedy to try to foist your own politcal position is shameful. Click to read the rest . . . -- SurveyGuy (wondering if Saudi employment resembles the Stockholm syndrome), 22:07:57 05/15/03 Thu
  • ADDENDUM: Since they took the trouble to write, they deserve a reply. This is mine. Others can comment if they wish on their own. -- Surveyg=Guy, 22:46:26 05/17/03 Sat
    • I have copied the URL to them, so whether they respond directly is up to them. They mostly have their own favorite fora, not to mention the day-job. We'll see. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:57:58 05/18/03 Sun
      • Thanks - I felt a replies were deserved since they all took the time to express themselves so imaginatively. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 07:28:54 05/18/03 Sun

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• Saudi Arabia delays U.S. team investigating Riyadh bombings -- JL, 22:15:51 05/14/03 Wed (pcp01376707pcs.selrsv01.pa.comcast.net/68.80.69.241)
  Courtesies to Haaretz and CBS
  By Nathan Guttman, Haaretz Correspondent and Haaretz Service
  
  An FBI team sent to investigate the suicide bombings on Western targets in Riyadh has been delayed in Germany as it awaits Saudi permission to enter the kingdom, leaving the U.S. still waiting to test the level of cooperation with Saudi authorities.
  
  The team's goal will be to evaluate the extent of the damage and to begin an initial investigation into the bombings in an attempt to determine who was behind them.
  
  Sources in the American security establishment expressed fear that the delay of their arrival on the scene of the attacks will make efforts to secure witnesses more difficult.
  
  Despite the hold-up, the White House noted that cooperation with the Saudis is good. U.S. President George W. Bush spoke by telephone with Saudi Crown Prince Amir Abdullah and received a promise for full cooperation in the investigation.
  
  White House spokesman Ari Fleischer called the conversation "good" and said the U.S. believes that the Saudis will put offer all aid in order to clarify the circumstances of the attacks. In the conversation, Abdullah called the attacks "monstrous" and promised to capture and try the responsible parties.
  
  Last week, after it became clear there were fears of potential attacks in Saudi territory, the U.S. Embassy requested the Saudi authorities increase security around facilities in Riyadh in which American citizens live.
  
  According to Robert Jordan, U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, there was no Saudi response to the American request for additional security.
  
  "We are continuing to work with the Saudis on this issue, but up until the tragic attacks they did not supply the additional security that we requested," Jordan told CBS.
  
  Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal said Wednesday that there were gaps in Saudi security ahead of al-Qaida-linked attacks on civilian residential compounds that killed at least 34 people, including nine suicide bombers.
  
  Saud added that 15 people were believed involved in the Monday night attacks, but had no details on the six who presumably survived.
  
  "The fact that the terrorism happened is an indication of shortcomings and we have to learn from our mistakes and seek to improve our performance in this respect," Saud said at a news conference in the capital.
  
  Saud said he had not received a request from the American ambassador to intensify security measures around the U.S. facilities.
  
  John Burgess, a U.S. Embassy consular official, confirmed Wednesday that Jordan sought futilely to get security tightened around all Western residential compounds in Riyadh before Monday night's attacks.
  
  "We had requested security enhancement for Western residential compounds and what was provided clearly was inadequate," Burgess said.
  
  For example, Burgess said, Saudi officials may have provided extra police patrols for a day or two, but then pulled them. He did not say when Jordan made his request or provide other details of the measures the ambassador sought.
  
  In his news conference, Saud said he had not received such a request from the American ambassador.
  
  "But, in each time the American embassy or any other embassy seeks the intensification of security measures, the government fulfills this request," Saud said.
  
  Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef was quoted Tuesday as saying he did not rule out more attacks.
  

  
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• Terrorist Attacks in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Last night I was, to say the least, rudely disturbed. For an unknown number of others, it was the stuff of nightmares, if they were lucky enough to survive. This is more of my personal account than an attempt to engage in debate - I'm just not in the mood for that. However I'm sure I'll be coming back to the point at the end. -- Chris Henry, 03:09:59 05/13/03 Tue (cache2-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.12)
  Now that morning has come, we're able to put together more of a picture of what has happened. It was a major series of attacks, and I fear that the death toll will be high.
  
  We were woken at about 1130 on Monday night by the bedroom window rattling. I looked out, couldn't see anything, thought it was "just one of those things", and went back to sleep. A little later we were woken by the persistent sound of sirens. Shortly after, we received a call from someone as part of the pre-arranged "cascade warning system". He told us that there had been a bomb at the Al Hamra compound, about a kilometre from here, a housing compound that also contains the British School.
  
  The rest of the night was taken up with phone calls and emails. We know many British School staff. Most of them had moved to Al Hamra in the last 3 months, "for safety". Fortunately all were well apart from minor cuts, although one friend of ours had to go to hospital for treatment. Two colleagues of mine also live there; one had gone to Kuwait for a job interview, and we later tracked down the second, who was thankfully unharmed.
  
  The same couldn't be said of their flats and villas. This is a 300 metre square compound. According to the people we have spoken to, every single one has lost its windows, many have had their patio doors dislodged, and heavy front doors have been blown into interior rooms. And those were the buildings that were left standing. Many were flattened or are just shells. One person we know was sleeping, completely covered by his quilt; he woke to find it covered in broken glass. Another had been watching television, had got up when he heard a commotion, and therefore had a narrow escape when the window blew in and a large shard of glass went thru his just-vacated seat.
  
  It now appears that 3 compounds were hit simultaneously in commando-style attacks. Two of them were obviously inhabited by US citizens, but Al Hamra is very mixed, with diplomatic staff from around the world, and a high proportion of Lebanese and Egyptian Arabs.
  
  Al Hamra, like all compounds, has a perimeter wall, a heavy main gate that is normally closed except for access, and security guards on the gate and on patrol. Our compound manager, who heard the account from the Al Hamra staff, said that a resident's car had just been allowed through the gate when two cars and an MPV "tail-gated" through after it, firing at the guards with machine guns, throwing "football-size" bombs out into the road, and shooting at anyone who happened to be around. They then drove each of the cars to an obviously planned spot - next to an apartment block, or next to the owners's house (reputed to be the son of a Government Minister) - and detonated the bombs contained within the cars. I assume this was a suicide attack, but cannot confirm this. The closest buildings were destroyed, and every single building was damaged beyond habitability. The BBC World News at 0600 is quoting 3 dead, in all the attacks. My colleague within Al Hamra, surveying the wreckage, believes the figure for just this one compound could be 40 to 60. I pray to God that he is wrong, but that number would be consistent with the scale of damage.
  
  The two other compounds, being US-occupied and I believe defense-related, actually had armed guards in watch towers. These were attacked with machine guns, I understand with some deaths, before a similar bomb attack took place. Again there is damage and there are fatalities, although no reliable figures yet.
  
  We're now at home in our compound, with a doubled armed guard, and access even more tightly controlled than before. I've not had much time to sleep, but one thought occurs to me - how did the invasion of Iraq help in the "War against Terrorism"? To my simple mind, it looks as though it has just fuelled another escalation.
  

  
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  • Right from the start, I just knew that you'd come back to blaming the U.S. You did not disappoint me. You know this has little or nothing to do with Iraq. Frankly, I hoped for better of you. Heck, Iraq had some of their troops in Saudi Arabia during the Kuwait incursion! (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I wouldnlt work in Arabia any more than I'd work for the government), 20:25:59 05/13/03 Tue
  • Your half-expected 'last minute' snipe destroyed any sympathies I carried for your pretentious expression of your plight. I cannot wait until all of our fine military men and women have left that pit of lunatic Wahhabism. I am sure you will still blame us for the many failings of such a barely evolved 'culture'. Your kind always does. Enjoy co-habitating with Islam ... the religion of peace and love. You deserve each other. (NT) -- JL, 21:53:44 05/13/03 Tue
  • What revealing observations. I was so impressed, I pasted this section into the Exxon Riyadh intranet, to see what some of our other US expatriates thought. Their responses so far are interesting, I'll share them in a while. In the meantime, JL, do you have any words of comfort for the families of the 20+ dead Northrop Grumman employees who were similarly "co-habiting with Islam"? And I'd really appreciate a coherent answer to the question I posed. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:08:36 05/14/03 Wed
    • They would have my sympathies, as much as any victim of terrorism would. However, I would question the judgement of someone placing themselves and their families in danger by choosing to occupy a part of the world that harbors those who hate all things Western. Especially in a country that subsidizes terrorist acts. Guess their NIMBY payoffs aren't working as well as they once did. Keep up your America bashing. It's good to know what the enemy is thinking. (NT) -- JL, 20:22:13 05/14/03 Wed
      • OK, tell me what "your side" thinks, whoever they are. Tell me how conquering Iraq has helped to win the war on terrorism. I'm ready to be convinced, if you can put forward a strong argument and not just pseudo-patriotic waffle. Go ahead. Convince me. I'm waiting. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:53:17 05/15/03 Thu
        • Only time for a quickie, but an important one, IMHO. No Saddam Hussein = no coin promoting Palestinian homicide bombers by paying off their families. Will revisit further when I get back. (NT) -- JL, 20:17:47 05/15/03 Thu
          • It would be nice to think so, but just about every shopping centre in the Middle East has a booth taking "charity" collections for Palestine. Any more? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:17:35 05/17/03 Sat
            • Chris, Iraq, through Saddam's regime, was supporting terrorism directly. He issued checks for $25,000 to families whose members murdered Israelis. Now he has been toppled and he is no longer issuing checks for this service of murder. JL is correct. One source of such blood money has dried up. There are more, like the Saudis who hold telethons which raise several million dollars for bloodthirsty murderers, the Palestinian terrorists, and they will have to be dealt with also. (NT) -- William, 00:03:31 05/20/03 Tue
            • William has made my rebuttal in this instance for me. Good fellow that he always is (Thx, big guy!). However much more of it we need to counteract, there is THAT MUCH LESS to deal with.......... -- JL, 20:57:08 05/20/03 Tue
      • Many people place their lives in danger to some extent. Not only expats working for US companies overseas, but also the armed forces, cops, firemen, miners, construction workers, people living in "tornado alley", on the San Andreas fault, in the Hurricane Belt. The Founding Fathers showed a serious lack of "judgement", not to mention the settlers in the West. Thank God for people who lack your finely developed "judgement". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 08:48:45 05/15/03 Thu
    • What it appears that you attempted to do, whether or not you realize it, is to use those violent deaths to attempt to gain sympathy for a political position that you hold. Shameful at best. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (we understand more about the Saudi situation vis-a-vis the religious hold over the secular government), 21:39:57 05/14/03 Wed
      • I'm blushing with shame. I should watch fellow-citizens get blown up but not question it, unless of course I come out agreeing with you, in which case it's OK. Same challenge to you as to JL. Then you can afford to be sanctimonious. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:58:01 05/15/03 Thu
        • Right - no one died here. I don;t expect to convince you of anything. You must do that for yourself. While you remain in your current environment, your views will reflect that. I hope you stay here BECAUSE we disagree with you and you want to know what we poor uninformed folk think, not because you expect us to change our minds. ... continued - click -- SurveyGuy, 22:21:46 05/15/03 Thu
  • bombing in Riyadh -- Jo, 09:02:02 05/14/03 Wed

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• Frustrated, U.S. Arms Team to Leave Iraq - see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40212-2003May10.html No comment, I've said it all before. -- Chris Henry, 02:52:15 05/12/03 Mon (cache9-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.20)
  BAGHDAD -- The group directing all known U.S. search efforts for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is winding down operations without finding proof that President Saddam Hussein kept clandestine stocks of outlawed arms, according to participants.
  
  The 75th Exploitation Task Force, as the group is formally known, has been described from the start as the principal component of the U.S. plan to discover and display forbidden Iraqi weapons. The group's departure, expected next month, marks a milestone in frustration for a major declared objective of the war.
  
  Leaders of Task Force 75's diverse staff -- biologists, chemists, arms treaty enforcers, nuclear operators, computer and document experts, and special forces troops -- arrived with high hopes of early success. They said they expected to find what Secretary of State Colin L. Powell described at the U.N. Security Council on Feb. 5 -- hundreds of tons of biological and chemical agents, missiles and rockets to deliver the agents, and evidence of an ongoing program to build a nuclear bomb.
  
  Scores of fruitless missions broke that confidence, many task force members said in interviews.
  
  Army Col. Richard McPhee, who will close down the task force next month, said he took seriously U.S. intelligence warnings on the eve of war that Hussein had given "release authority" to subordinates in command of chemical weapons. "We didn't have all these people in [protective] suits" for nothing, he said. But if Iraq thought of using such weapons, "there had to have been something to use. And we haven't found it. . . . Books will be written on that in the intelligence community for a long time."
  

  
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  • Yup, saw that. Typical Washington Post -- telling half of a story. As I said before, this will take 6 months. They are just changing teams as far as I can see. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:22:45 05/12/03 Mon

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• A followup to providing Spanish versions . . . now it's Klingon! -- SurveyGuy (Well, at least it's not Ebonics)
  , 21:29:12 05/11/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86550,00.html
  Klingon Interpreter Needed for Ore. Mental Patients
  Sunday, May 11, 2003
  
  PORTLAND, Ore. — Position Available: Interpreter, must be fluent in Klingon.
  
  The language created for the Star Trek (search) TV series and movies is one of about 55 needed by the office that treats mental health patients in metropolitan Multnomah County.
  
  "We have to provide information in all the languages our clients speak," said Jerry Jelusich, a procurement specialist for the county Department of Human Services, which serves about 60,000 mental health clients.
  
  Although created for works of fiction, Klingon was designed to have a consistent grammar, syntax and vocabulary.
  
  And now Multnomah County (search) research has found that many people — and not just fans — consider it a complete language.
  
  "There are some cases where we've had mental health patients where this was all they would speak," said the county's purchasing administrator, Franna Hathaway.
  
  County officials said that obligates them to respond with a Klingon-English interpreter, putting the language of starship Enterprise officer Worf and other Klingon characters on a par with common languages such as Russian and Vietnamese, and less common tongues including Dari and Tongan.
  

  
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  • Being Oregon, I am certain ballots will be printed up in Klingon also. Can dead Klingons still vote like dead Dims can? (NT) -- JL, 22:15:42 05/12/03 Mon
    • Only in Florida! Perhaps we should be asking Spock about this! How do you say "hanging chad" in Klingon???!!! (NT) -- pat, 12:48:21 05/13/03 Tue
      • Umm -- it's Oregon, not Florida ... or have I miscontrued your post? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Bad ideas produce absurdities.), 21:43:05 05/14/03 Wed
        • Perhaps... My thought is that Dead Klingons could probably vote in Florida as well as possibly in Oregon... sorry if you didn't catch my feeble attempt at humor... (NT) -- pat, 09:21:12 05/15/03 Thu
  • FOLLOWUP: Oregon county calls off job for Klingon interpreter Click this link for story -- SurveyGuy (Darn - I was almost fluent enough to apply), 21:56:17 05/14/03 Wed

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• . . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . Yet Liberals try to abridge our freedoms every day. But so does Ashcroft, et al on the other side. -- SurveyGuy (You have to sue to protect your liberties. Yet losing more each day re surveillance and few seem to comprehend. ), 13:35:40 05/10/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  LAW OF THE LAND
  Cross-wearing woman sues over suspension
  Teacher's aide punished after refusing to remove religious symbol
  © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  A teacher's aide who was suspended for refusing to remove a cross pendant she regularly wore to work has sued the education agency that employs her for allegedly violating her constitutional rights.
  
  As WorldNetDaily reported, officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 in Pennsylvania suspended Brenda Nichol, 43, for one year for refusing to stop wearing the cross, which violates a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb. The woman is an eight-year employee of the agency.
  
  "I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," she told the Indiana Gazette last month.
  
  The American Center for Law and Justice, a public-interest law firm specializing in religious-freedom issues, filed the federal lawsuit on behalf of Nichol in U.S. district court in Pittsburgh this week.
  
  "The actions taken by this agency represent a serious violation of our client's constitutional rights," said Vincent McCarthy, senior counsel of ACLJ. "The law is very clear on this issue – school personnel do not shed their constitutional freedoms when they enter the school house door. To punish a teacher's aide for merely expressing her free speech rights is not only wrong, but unconstitutional. We're confident that the court will correct this injustice and protect the First Amendment rights of our client."
  
  Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law on public schools, according to Dr. Robert H. Coad Jr., executive director of ARIN.
  
  According to the ARIN handbook, employees may wear a cross or other religious jewelry as long as it cannot be seen by others.
  
  Of the regulation, Nichol said, "I could not follow that code in my heart. I could not deny Christ."
  
  According to a statement from ACLJ, the suit names as defendants ARIN Intermediate Unit 28, its executive director and several other supervisors. It contends the actions of the agency violate the First and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution and Pennsylvania law, including the state's Religious Freedom Protection Act. The law firm says Nichol also will file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and will pursue charges that the suspension violated federal law.
  
  "There is nothing wrong with Brenda Nichol wearing a cross pendant to work," said McCarthy. "This is a legitimate desire to exercise her deeply held religious beliefs in a manner that is consistent with both state and federal law."
  

  
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  Replies:

  • "Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law". Same law in Saudi Arabia. Who's imitating whom? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:40:43 05/11/03 Sun
    • My point exactly. We are turning into a country with no liberties and goofy intrusive busy-bodies with nothing better dto do. It is time to fight back as this woman is doing. The problem is that citizens remain ignorant -- just the way the government likes it. I guess the school will have to remove every window with "crosses" in them, and dozens other structural manifestations that I am sure could be pointed out. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Hope that someone follows this case.), 12:55:34 05/11/03 Sun

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• Here's a topic that interests me. This was just received on a political-technical news list to which I subscribe. It may explain why we are still in bed with France and other G8 nations. -- SurveyGuy (1984 is just around the corner, Winston ....), 19:19:06 05/09/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  ---
  
  Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 17:38:32 -0400
  From: J Plummer
  Subject: NCP: Privacy Villain: G8
  
  Privacy Villain of the Week:
  G8
  
  Word from Paris this week is that the G8 nations http://www.g8.fr/ -- the governments of France, Germany, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States, Italy, Canada, and Russia -- have agreed to develop a biometric passport system, perhaps complete with barcode, eye scan, and fingerprints.
  
  Taking the lead on working out the details of the scheme will be the US government and its purported nemesis, the French.
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17566-2003May5.html They may disagree on the proper level of violence to utilize in engineering an international takeover of a third-world country, but have had an evident meeting of the minds on the necessity of tracking and tracing their own citizens in the most Orwellian ways possible. The two countries hope to have the details worked out by the end of the year and to roll out the brave new papers by the end of 2004.
  
  And leave it to the United Kingdom, the homeland of Big Brother, to use the plan as a pretext for mandating such identification papers for all their citizens, not just those who have the temerity to travel. Home Secretary Jack Straw told the London Daily Telegraph that the new passports would be an excellent mechanism to do just that.
  http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/06/npass06.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/05/06/ixnewstop.html No doubt the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators is salivating at the idea of similarly bootstrapping their plan to
  biometrically ID all Americans via their drivers' licenses.
  http://www.nccprivacy.org/handv/011206villain.htm
  
  The international track-and-trace scheme will of course be justified by invoking the terror bogeyman. If the leaders of these nations are so afraid of terrorists, it might be a better idea for them to just watch who they let enter their countries and grant citizenship to, rather then subjecting the personal details of their own citizens to the whims of international bureaucracy. The Patriot Act and other measures have in the past two years set up a number of programs to track who is enteing the United States. Yet apparently this is not enough for the US government, as its delegation in
  Paris, led by Attorney General Ashcroft, has decided to take the lead in designing a system to biometrically catalogue Americans. This is akin to the scheme that has the Canadians telling Homeland Security about every American who egresses the US by the Northern border -- while the Southern border is virtually wide open -- no retina scan required!
  
  http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030410.uimmi0410/BNStory/National/?query=border
  
  It would be a miracle if such a card system were made to work without saving the biometric data in government databases, as a pilot program at Amsterdam airport is purportedly doing.
  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/international/europe/25AMST.html
  Some US states already require submission to a fingerprint database in order to
  get a driver's license.
  
  What can we expect from the massive new database ostensibly designed to prevent identity fraud? Well, we already know that fingerprint scans can be forged with gummi worm technology.
  http://cryptome.org/gummy.htm
  As Congressman Ron Paul (and numerous others) point out, "transformation of the Social Security number into a de facto uniform identifier . . . facilitates the crime of identity theft."
  http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr052201.htm A recent GAO report provided a handful of the many examples of poor security practices the federal government uses in protecting SSNs. http://govt-aff.senate.gov/031103prescouncilrpt.pdf
  
  All of this is because Congress has increasingly acquiesced to, or indeed mandated, the widespread use of the SSN as an identifier by government and business. If France, Ashcroft, and the G8 push this scheme through Congress, can we expect any better in the future. Today, when one punches "SSN" into google, at the top right of the results is a little ad selling personal information based on nothing more than the government-issued number. How long will it be before a similar ad pops up when you search on fingerprints? You might ask the gaggle of Privacy Villains in Paris.
  
  By James Plummer
  
  
  The Privacy Villain of the Week and Privacy Hero of the Month are projects
  of the National Consumer Coalition's Privacy Group. Privacy Villains and
  Heros audio feature now available at FCF News on Demand. www.fcfnews.com
  For more information on the NCC Privacy Group, see www.nccprivacy.org or
  contact James Plummer at 202-467-5809 or jplummer@consumeralert.org .
  
  
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• This flight sucks! Close the door!

  Air disaster in the Congo. -- William, 13:17:09 05/09/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  
  
  129 Congo Air Passengers Feared Dead
  Rear Door of Cargo Plane Flying Across Congo Opens Mid-Flight, Sucking 129 Passengers Out
  
  via ABC News
  
  The Associated Press
  
  
  KINSHASA, Congo May 9, 2003, approximately one hour ago.
  
  The rear door of a Russian-built cargo plane burst open as the aircraft was flying across Congo and 129 passengers were sucked out, airport officials said Friday.
  
  Defense Minister Irung Awan confirmed the accident occurred Thursday night, but said he was unaware of any deaths among the 200 people aboard.
  
  After the accident occurred some 45 minutes into the flight, the pilots managed to turn back and land the plane in Kinshasa, Awan said.
  
  Two officials at the international airport in Congo's capital, Kinshasa, independently told The Associated Press that 129 people were feared dead after being sucked out of the plane. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.
  
  The plane, a privately owned Ilyushin 76, had apparently been chartered to transport Congolese police and their families from Kinshasa, to the southeastern city of Lubumbashi.
  
  After the accident occurred some 45 minutes into the flight, the pilots managed to turn back and land the plane in Kinshasa, Awan said.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  

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• This is always a good controversy. They haven't learned English in 12 years enough to pass an exam. The result of an educational fraud as well as widespread student laziness and pandering to hispanics instead of educating them. (Is my statement provacative enough to sdtart a conversation?) -- SurveyGuy, 09:42:26 05/09/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32471
  BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
  Students: English-only test unfair
  Hundreds of seniors stage protest over state exam
  © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  Waving signs and chanting "No FCAT," about 200 students protested Florida's standardized assessment test outside Miami Senior High School, reports WPLG-TV.
  
  The demonstration followed the release earlier this week of students' results on Florida's Comprehensive Assessment Test, or FCAT. The annual exam is given to students in third through 10th grade.
  
  The Associated Press reports nearly 14,000 12th-graders still haven't passed the FCAT, which puts their graduation in jeopardy.
  
  About 100 out of 500 seniors from Miami Senior High who took the exam failed, according to the Miami-Dade County School Board.
  
  Many of the protesting students call the test unfair because it is given in English. Roughly 88 percent of the student body are English-as-a-second-language students.
  
  "Imagine here, where we are a Hispanic-based society, a lot of these students out here protesting – they don't know English," Gertter Martin, who failed the FCAT twice, told WPLG-TV.
  
  "I'm scared. My dreams are [over.] I want to be a doctor and because of that I can't do it," said Jessica Duran who also failed the test.
  
  Six of every 10 seniors who have yet to pass the FCAT, which is required for graduation, have the grades to graduate.
  
  The protesters got support from some educators who showed up at the rally.
  
  "How can you tell somebody who's been in school for 12 years, who's met all the requirements and because they haven't passed a test that they can't get their diploma?" said Gus Barrera of Miami-Dade County Schools.
  
  State Rep. Ralph Arza, who is also a Miami High teacher, plans to introduce legislation next week to offer the FCAT in other languages.
  
  Seniors who failed this time around have the option of taking an adult education course and retaking the test again next month.
  
  Those who don't want a diploma can get a general education degree, or GED.
  
  Meanwhile, the protesting students have another score to settle. School officials told the news station that those who did not go to class on time and took part in the rally will likely be suspended.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • SurveyGuy, can someone please slap these whiners and wake them up? They are living in the United States, not Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador, Peru, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Belize, and on and on. English is the National Language here, or should be. I wonder why Chinese and Japanese students can attend grade school, high school, and college without having the classes in their own language, and still pass ... at the head of their class. No, I don't really wonder. The Asians and Orientals don't make excuses for themselves as a group. (NT) -- William, 15:30:34 05/10/03 Sat
  • Asians and Orientals do the work which must be done and they get results. In the mean time, the Hispanics and Blacks especially in the US have had too many excuses made for them and rely too much on excuses and special privileges and won't make the proper effort but want society to bend to their will. Good luck trying to be a doctor in the USA Who cannot speak or understand English, unless you think you are dealing with only Spanish speaking patients and hospital staff and attending only Spanish lectures, classes, and medical reviews! (NT) -- William, 15:32:27 05/10/03 Sat
  • William, I totally agree with you, for once! There is a correlation between social ambition and the ability to learn the official language. I forsee the day when South Florida is declared a bilingual zone, and schoolchildren are forced to learn both languages. (NT) -- Chris Henry (although feeling a bit guilty because of his limited command of the language in the country where he temporarily resides), 02:27:20 05/11/03 Sun

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• Human Rights -- U.N. Style -- SurveyGuy, 19:05:19 05/06/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  
  
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Thanks for an entertaining cartoon, SurveyGuy. (NT) -- William, 15:39:22 05/10/03 Sat
    • I wonder how many in the general public would understand it. I found it quite succinct. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:56:29 05/11/03 Sun
  • Another Political Forum -- Editor, 06:27:43 08/02/03 Sat

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• More allegations of French complicity and deceit. -- William, 04:42:44 05/06/03 Tue (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)
  France helped Iraqis escape
  Bill Gertz
  The Washington Times
  
  Published May 6, 2003
  
  The French government secretly supplied fleeing Iraqi officials with passports in Syria that allowed them to escape to Europe, The Washington Times has learned.
  An unknown number of Iraqis who worked for Saddam Hussein's government were given passports by French officials in Syria, U.S. intelligence officials said.
  The passports are regarded as documents of the European Union, because of France's membership in the union, and have helped the Iraqis avoid capture, said officials familiar with intelligence reports.
  The French support, which was revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means, angered Pentagon, State Department and intelligence officials in Washington because it undermined the search for senior aides to Saddam, who fled Iraq in large numbers after the fall of Baghdad on April 9.
  "It made it very difficult to track these people," one official said.
  A second Bush administration official said, "It's like Raoul Wallenberg in reverse," a reference to the Swedish diplomat who supplied travel documents to help Jews escape Nazi Germany in World War II. "Now you have the French helping the bad guys escape from us."
  Asked about the passports, Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman for the French Embassy, said French authorities have not issued any visas to officials of the former Iraqi regime since the beginning of the war in Iraq, either in Syria or elsewhere.
  "France formally denies this type of allegation, which is not only contrary to reality but is intended to discredit our nation," she said. "It is certainly time for rumors of this type ? totally unfounded and a dishonor to those who spread them ? to stop."
  The French passports allow the wanted Iraqis to move freely among 12 EU countries that are part of the Schengen agreement on unrestricted travel. Britain, Denmark and Ireland are not part of the Schengen pact.
  The intelligence on the French passports came after reports indicated that a French company covertly sold military spare parts to Iraq in the weeks before the war.
  Other intelligence reports indicated that a French oil company was working with a Russian oil firm to conclude a deal with Saddam's government in the days before military action began March 19.
  The French government also denied U.S. intelligence indicating that a Chinese chemical company used French and Syrian brokers to circumvent U.N. sanctions in providing Iraq with chemicals used in making missile fuel.
  Regarding the French passports for fleeing Iraqis, Pentagon officials have expressed frustration that few of the most senior leaders identified on the list of top 55 officials of the Saddam regime have been captured.
  The capture yesterday of an Iraqi biological weapons scientist, Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, brings to 19 the number of senior Iraqi leaders who have been caught. One has been reported killed.
  Only one of the captives is ranked in the top 10.
  Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said Sunday that he did not know how many Iraqi officials had been given haven in Syria.
  "Some have been made available to us," Mr. Powell said on CBS' "Face the Nation."
  "Let me put it that way: Who we knew were there are no longer there," he said. "They've been made available to us, and they will be before the bar of justice of the Iraqi people."
  Mr. Powell said other wanted Iraqis have been identified to the Syrian government "to see whether they can be located."
  "But my sense from President Bashar al-Assad is that he has no interest in serving as a haven for any of these individuals," Mr. Powell said. "So I think if we can give him information and give him specific names and anything else we can say about these people, I think he would try to respond."
  It could not be learned whether Mr. Powell and the Syrian president discussed Iraqis who might have transited through Syria to other nations.
  Mr. Powell said Syria has been "helpful" in the past two years in dealing with the war on terrorism, primarily through U.S. and Syrian intelligence liaison.
  The secretary also told Mr. Assad that "there may be people in Syria that we don't know about but you know about" who should be turned over to U.S. forces.
  "This is the time for you to locate these individuals and turn them over to Iraqi justice and not allow Syria to become a haven for materials that might be coming out of Iraq still, or came out of Iraq or individuals who are trying to seek haven," he said.
  Under pressure from the United States, Syria in the past several weeks expelled more than 30 Iraqis, many who came from Saddam's hometown of Tikrit.
  After first granting sanctuary to former Iraqi intelligence official Farouk Hijazi, Syria turned him over to U.S. officials in Iraq.
  Congress is considering legislation that would impose economic sanctions on Syria for its support of terrorism and to pressure it to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and stop building ballistic missiles.
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • A Classic! We go from the huge 32-point "France helped Iraqis escape" headline to the smaller print of "The Washington Times has learned", "U.S. intelligence officials said", "said officials familiar with intelligence reports", "revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means". All the tell-tale phrases of BS journalism. Never supply any facts if they get in the way of a good story, especially if it smears both Syria and France at the same time. What next? "Saddam Hussein is now a familiar sight strolling down the Rue de Rivoli", informed sources have revealed? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:04:01 05/06/03 Tue
    • While what you say is true regarding catch-phrases, please note that French official denials were also quoted. Now it remains to be seen whether reports or denials are shown to be true. The Post, on the other hand will quote "Democratic party sources" but rarely print Republican rejoinders. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (wondering if France would take in Osama), 11:19:54 05/07/03 Wed
      • "wondering if France would take in Osama". Interesting thought. No doubt the French-Algerian population would welcome him initially. However some of his "home movies" on Al Jazeera showed him to be an arrogant racist. He's very fond of the arabic word for "slave" which some in the Gulf use when referring to those of African origin, Arab or otherwise. So he'd probably get his throat cut within 2 days, and discover whether terrorists really go to Paradise. In my view he's a creature of his own region, and will never stray beyond the Gulf or Central Asia. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:58:35 05/08/03 Thu
        • Chris, Osama has been buying slaves to work his drug crop. He uses Kalishnikov rifles as part of the monetary system or barter system to purchase his African slaves, who are often young boys. (NT) -- William, 15:36:23 05/10/03 Sat
  • Why do France's denials all sound so much like the (late) Iraqi Minister if Misinformation..."the Americans are not here and never have been....but we still have them surrounded and have completely overcome them....they are running away like infidel rabbits, and we have killed them all and they are hanging themselves by the thousands..." Must have the same press writer. (NT) -- Spock, 12:37:08 05/07/03 Wed
    • ...and Ari Fleischer's quote "I think the French will have to explain what they did or did not do." is a masterpiece of sly innuendo. It's quite simple - produce an Iraqi escapee and their Damascus-issued French passport. Until then, in the time-honored phrase, they should "Put up or shut up". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:48:17 05/08/03 Thu
      • D'accord! During the war (feels so odd using that phrase for a 3-week conflict) Jeff Katz featured a "casting call" on his show for the hypothetical film, "Saving Private Lynch." One caller suggested Jon Lovitz to be the Iraqi Misinformation Minister. It's a toss-up -- he could go for M. le President too..."We are America's best friends!" Yeah, right. (NT) -- Spock, 12:20:30 05/08/03 Thu

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• Someone sent this to me. Admittedly it is somewhat slanted, but still worth the read. -- SurveyGuy (The next decade should be interesting), 19:04:52 04/07/03 Mon (NoHost/68.81.153.209)
  Brief History of Germany
  
  1871 - Bismarck founds modern Germany.
  1890 - Bismarck sacked, warmonger Wilhelm II takes direct control.
  1914 - Germany starts World War I
  1914-1918 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
  1917 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
  1918 - Germany loses World War I.
  1920's - Germans try democracy.
  
  1933 - Germans reject democracy, allow Hitler to take power.
  1939 - Germany starts World War II.
  1939-1945 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
  
  1941 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
  1945 - Germany loses World War II.
  1946 - Germans whine about lack of food, America gives billions in food aid to feed them.
  1947 - Germans whine about crappy economy, America gives billions in Marshall Plan aid to rebuild German economy.
  1948-1949 - America puts ass on line and risks WW3 to save a few Berliners from Soviet hordes.
  1949 - Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) established.
  
  1950's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1950's - German 'economic miracle' occurs while America keeps watch on Soviet hordes.
  1955 - NATO formed to protect West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  
  1960's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1960's - German students protest war in Vietnam and American civil rights.
  1963 - American President John Kennedy makes "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech.
  
  1970's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1970's - Germans form the marxist terrorist group Red Army Faction (RAF).
  1970's - Leftist German guerrillas burn, loot, and plunder much of West Germany.
  
  1980's - America spends tens of billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1980's - German leftists bitch about Perishing II missiles.
  1987 - American President Ronald Reagan makes "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" speech.
  1989 - Gorbachev tears down Berlin Wall.
  
  1990 - German Reunification.
  1990's - America spends tens of billions to defend Germany from Islamic hordes.
  1990's - Germany stands by as ethnic cleansing occurs in Balkans.
  1993 - Germany joins European Union.
  1995 - Americans send troops to Bosnia as Germans watch from the sidelines.
  1997 - Germans finally send troops to Bosnia.
  1998 - Hard-line, left-of-left socialists come to power under Gerhard Schroeder.
  1999 - Americans lead air war to save Kosovo as Germans watch from the sidelines.
  
  2001 - Schroeder offers solidarity to America after 9/11 attacks.
  2002 - Schroeder bashes America to distract voters during election campaign.
  2003 - Germany sees rise in anti-Americanism after several decades of "poor treatment" from America.
  
  AND YOU THOUGHT THE FRENCH WERE A BUNCH OF UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS?
  

  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:

  • Sounds slanted ... and accurate ... in the right direction. They left out the part about the 80 plus German companies which supplied Saddam's Iraq. (NT) -- William, 02:48:36 04/08/03 Tue
    • An the companies that kept Jewish slaves working in the mines, but is is a "brief" history, after all. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:24:20 04/08/03 Tue
  • An interesting review. Bias aside, how soon we all forget history, track records, and context, in our "instant gratification" culture. (NT) -- Spock, 10:58:02 04/08/03 Tue
  • OK, I give up. "1990's - America spends tens of billions to defend Germany from Islamic hordes." Help me someone, I don't recognise what this is referring to. I know the "Islamic Hordes" got to the gates of Vienna and introduced them to coffee, but that was Austria, and that was in 1683. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 12:33:19 04/09/03 Wed
    • The list (with no author) may be referring to preventing hordes of Islamic refugees from fleeing Bosnia-Herzgovinia/Albania into Germany. Just a guess. The term may be a misuse of the several historic events, even of 600 years ago and earlier. When you get this stuff in emails, you must take the content with a grain of salt, unless researched. That is why I clearly gave my source as unsolicited. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The point is that plenty of treasure and blood was spent on Germany. Too bad - I like their wines.), 16:41:09 04/09/03 Wed
      • I'm tellin' ya SG, wines from Chile or Southeast Australia are a darn sight cheaper and quite good too, and not so politically loaded...for now... (NT) -- Spock, 11:09:59 04/10/03 Thu
        • But I have an '83 Auslese that is ready to drink. I am not likely to buy more. I like the Australian Shiraz's (try Wyndam Estates Bin 555). (NT) -- SurveyGuy ( Wines mean much more to the French economy and pride. I just won't by any Mercedes-Benz [grin]), 19:03:15 04/10/03 Thu
          • Well, if you think about it, the farmers who make the wine are just earning an honest living, regardless of how jerky their government is. So, drink up and enjoy without guilt... (NT) -- Spock, 16:20:02 04/11/03 Fri
            • One of the strange twists is that Hollywood types like Francis Ford Coppola have bought large vineyards in California and are selling their wines. (Pretty good too.) Life is so complicated. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:57:32 04/17/03 Thu
              • Perhaps we should be motivated to learn to make our own wines? (NT) -- Spock, 11:37:00 04/18/03 Fri
    • Upon investigation, I cannot discover any clear reference to that item anywhere. In any event it does not change the main point. Thanks for pointing out the apparent error. Anybody note any other obvious errors in the list? The main point again is that either Germany is the cause of trouble, or needs to be assisted, yet their rhetoric was unnecessarily harsh in their dissent. Time to pull NATO out of Germany and let them spend their own damned GDP for defense. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The re-emergence of overt anti-semitism is something equally unsettling.), 14:34:36 04/11/03 Fri
    • do you get it now? -- repunzzell, 23:21:11 07/25/03 Fri

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