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It's like giving your 2 cents but without the 2 minute rule!
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• How interesting!! Something to throw back in the faces of liberals who try to say Bush is horrible because he opposes this. First ask them if they woould feel the same about anyone who would do so. Then drop this bombshell on them. -- SurveyGuy, 20:57:27 08/02/03 Sat (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/8/2/204450
  Saturday, August 2, 2003 9:19 PM EST
  Clinton Opposed Same Sex Marriages
  
  Before condemning George Bush for taking a stand against same-sex marriages, liberals should keep in mind that not long ago one of their heroes took a similar stand.
  
  George Bush is not the only president to come out against same sex marriages - Bill Clinton, the liberal's darling, not only said he opposed the idea, he signed into law a ban on state recognition of such unions.
  
  As Nick Gillespie recalls in Reason Online's Hit and Run feature, Clinton signed The Defense of Marriage Act in September 1996. The measure was designed to prevent states from recognizing the validity of gay marriages.
  
  In signing the act, the suddenly moral Clinton said the had "long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages."
  
  Clinton's full statement issued on Friday, September 20, 1996 relating to the law follows:
  
  Throughout my life I have strenuously opposed discrimination of any kind, including discrimination against gay and lesbian Americans. I am signing into law H.R. 3396, a bill relating to same-gender marriage, but it is important to note what this legislation does and does not do.
  
  I have long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages and this legislation is consistent with that position. The Act confirms the right of each state to determine its own policy with respect to same gender marriage and clarifies for purposes of federal law the operative meaning of the terms "marriage" and "spouse".
  
  This legislation does not reach beyond those two provisions. It has no effect on any current federal, state or local anti-discrimination law and does not constrain the right of Congress or any state or locality to enact anti-discrimination laws. I therefore would take this opportunity to urge Congress to pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, an act which would extend employment discrimination protections to gays and lesbians in the workplace. This year the Senate considered this legislation contemporaneously with the Act I sign today and failed to pass it by a single vote. I hope that in its next Session Congress will pass it expeditiously.
  
  I also want to make clear to all that the enactment of this legislation should not, despite the fierce and at times divisive rhetoric surrounding it, be understood to provide an excuse for discrimination, violence or intimidation against any person on the basis of sexual orientation. Discrimination, violence and intimidation for that reason, as well as others, violate the principle of equal protection under the law and have no place in American society.
  

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  • SurveyGuy, one thing I have found is that it does not matter what liberals are told about their own kind they make excuses or ignore it and carry on with business as usual. They also don't care if something is good for as long as they hate your or think you are conservative or different from them they will demonize you and engage in rabid opposition to you. The leftist, communists, Islamofascists, and liberals have demonstrated this in the war on terror and the war and rebuilding of Iraq and on other issues as well. (NT) -- William, 15:00:13 08/04/03 Mon
    • This one has thrown a few people I know for a loop. What it does is open their eyes to the fact that they haven't been told the whole (or even partial) truth about issues. Of course the knee-jerk haters never seem to have a rationale. So I agree with you, but bringing up things like this really annoys them. What fun! (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:19:31 08/04/03 Mon
      • I intend to use this information about Clinton if the opportunity arises. I have noticed how liberals are becoming bumbling idiots, condescending intellectuals out to discredited and mock non liberal, not leftists and they cannot stand the heat their are getting, finally, but the likes of Ann Coulter, who, although she might be accused of exaggeration, is actually doing a pretty good job of airing leftists and liberal's dirty laundry, hypocracy and lies. (NT) -- William, 03:04:34 08/05/03 Tue

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• Human Rights -- U.N. Style -- SurveyGuy, 19:05:19 05/06/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  
  
  

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  • Thanks for an entertaining cartoon, SurveyGuy. (NT) -- William, 15:39:22 05/10/03 Sat
    • I wonder how many in the general public would understand it. I found it quite succinct. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:56:29 05/11/03 Sun
  • Another Political Forum -- Editor, 06:27:43 08/02/03 Sat

  ---

• Magazine subscription scam -- Spock, 14:11:56 08/01/03 Fri (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  I think I may have discovered a new variety of mail-order subscription scam, as a result of lightning striking twice in the same place, so to speak.
  
  At work, when I go through the mail, there are often lots of mailings offering various magazine subscriptions. Normally I throw these in the trash, or if it looks really interesting, I'll pass it on to the office magazine subscriber person for them to decide.
  
  Twice now, in the past month or so, the respective magazine publisher has gone ahead and started a subscription anyway, without my having ordered it, and then started sending invoices, each with increasing urgency and terseness, approaching collection-letter tone.
  
  With the first letter or two of the first subscription, I threw those away too. I hadn't ordered it, figured it was their fluke, and they'd stop sending it when they realized they weren't getting payment -- subscriptions will often cancel themselves that way. And it was a matter of principle that I shouldn't have to pay postage to tell them their error. When collection-letter language set in, however, I went ahead and wrote "cancel" on the invoice, and added "we never ordered this subscription" for good measure. And I haven't heard anything since, thankfully.
  
  But today, I just got my introductory issue of ANOTHER magazine that I didn't order, complete with invoice -- I remember very distinctly the offer coming in, which I passed on to the subscriptions person who gave a resounding NO, and in the trash it went.
  
  My take is that this new scam is very clever psychologically -- they're operating on the premise that most people are too busy to remember all they've done, particularly all the things they may have signed up for or ordered. They see a bill and pay it regardless. (Have you ever noticed how if you even enter a sweepstakes, the drawing usually doesn't occur until a date far in the future, by which time you'll probably have forgotten all about it, and entered several more in the mean time, thereby spreading around your mailing list potential.)
  
  Granted, in the grand scheme, no harm done, I guess -- I haven't yet been held liable for these subscriptions. But I don't appreciate the harrassment, nor the time it wastes. My opinion of salespeople has never been high -- and I worked as a production manager in a sales office for 2 1/2 years and learned to confirm that opinion, and inform it a little too. Bottom line, I don't trust them. I never take sales calls, and screen them whenever possible. I signed up for the PA and the national "do not call" in a jiffy. Have you heard about how telemarketers are crying now, and suing the federal government over this? My husband describes them as essentially breaking and entering and harrassing -- we wouldn't let them do it in person, so why on the phone either? Add to that now, via the mail!
  
  Has anybody else had anything like my subscription scam happen yet?
  
  Should I be reporting this to one of those news shows that are always looking for new scoops, especially scams? It would seem to qualify, since I've heard stories done on how catalog companies will mail out different versions of the same catalog that have different prices for the same items, mailed by demographic determinations.
  
  Respectfully submitted,
  
  Spock
  

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  • It is like "slamming" with phone providers. Contact each magazine and tell them in a letter, that you did not enter any subscription and do not intend to pay and please stop delivery. tell them you suspect that some third party has been entering these without permission and if so, you wanted them to be aware before they paid anyone any commission. In other words, make your letter to the magazine(s) helpful. If it is what you expect, a few of them may even reward you in some token manner (like a free subscription). Be sure to include a copy of the mailing label. Thanks for the report. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:08:23 08/01/03 Fri
  • Spock, Please give me the address so that I can send subscriptions to my magazine, "Intelligence for our Difficult Times" and "Spelleeng four week Spellurs: A Consise Gide four Impruveeng your Spelleeng Sckillz". (NT) -- William, 03:20:39 08/02/03 Sat

  ---

• This I gottta see. So if they accurately quote a blatant lie told by, say a Democrat, then have they reported the truth. After all the quoted source did say what they reported, even if the source lied. Still lots of room for the same overt bias and lie-telling. The question is will they quote people who are telling the truth - even Democrats? -- SurveyGuy, 12:06:28 08/01/03 Fri (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/7/30/145722
  Wednesday, July 30, 2003
  New York Times Hires Special Editors in Charge of Stopping Lies
  
  We're almost starting to feel sorry for that Democrat mouthpiece known as the New York Times. Still reeling from its recent scandals, it has hired three editors whose jobs are pretty much to keep the paper from publishing more lies.
  
  Acting on the recommendations of a committee, the Times said it would create three positions:
  
  an editor in charge of standards to educate the staff "on matters of accuracy and ethics" (apparently it had no standards before)
  
  a "public editor" to examine coverage and handle all those complaints from readers
  
  an editor to oversee hiring and career development, i.e., to give preference to non-whites without creating another Jayson Blair.
  
  "What we are out to do is raise our accountability for the management of our people, and acknowledge that it is inseparable from the making of our journalism," new Executive Editor Bill Keller said in a staff memo revealed today by the Associated Press.
  
  ----------------
  Addendum by me:
  I once say Sen. Patrick Moynihan give a speech on TV (C-Span I think) to some organization railing against how Congress had "borrowed" all the money out of the Social Security trust fund and left an "IOU" in effect. I never saw this truth reported and never saw Moynihan ever talk about that again. This was over a dozen years ago. I guess his party shut him up. This is not to say that the Republicans are complicit in this as well by keeping silent and even voting for those measures. Now were here the big lie that it was designed as a "pay as you go" system. Oh yeah? Then why did you need a "trust fund" and why can't we trust Congress to not raid it?
  

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• Someone sent this to me. Admittedly it is somewhat slanted, but still worth the read. -- SurveyGuy (The next decade should be interesting), 19:04:52 04/07/03 Mon (NoHost/68.81.153.209)
  Brief History of Germany
  
  1871 - Bismarck founds modern Germany.
  1890 - Bismarck sacked, warmonger Wilhelm II takes direct control.
  1914 - Germany starts World War I
  1914-1918 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
  1917 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
  1918 - Germany loses World War I.
  1920's - Germans try democracy.
  
  1933 - Germans reject democracy, allow Hitler to take power.
  1939 - Germany starts World War II.
  1939-1945 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
  
  1941 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
  1945 - Germany loses World War II.
  1946 - Germans whine about lack of food, America gives billions in food aid to feed them.
  1947 - Germans whine about crappy economy, America gives billions in Marshall Plan aid to rebuild German economy.
  1948-1949 - America puts ass on line and risks WW3 to save a few Berliners from Soviet hordes.
  1949 - Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) established.
  
  1950's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1950's - German 'economic miracle' occurs while America keeps watch on Soviet hordes.
  1955 - NATO formed to protect West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  
  1960's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1960's - German students protest war in Vietnam and American civil rights.
  1963 - American President John Kennedy makes "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech.
  
  1970's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1970's - Germans form the marxist terrorist group Red Army Faction (RAF).
  1970's - Leftist German guerrillas burn, loot, and plunder much of West Germany.
  
  1980's - America spends tens of billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
  1980's - German leftists bitch about Perishing II missiles.
  1987 - American President Ronald Reagan makes "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" speech.
  1989 - Gorbachev tears down Berlin Wall.
  
  1990 - German Reunification.
  1990's - America spends tens of billions to defend Germany from Islamic hordes.
  1990's - Germany stands by as ethnic cleansing occurs in Balkans.
  1993 - Germany joins European Union.
  1995 - Americans send troops to Bosnia as Germans watch from the sidelines.
  1997 - Germans finally send troops to Bosnia.
  1998 - Hard-line, left-of-left socialists come to power under Gerhard Schroeder.
  1999 - Americans lead air war to save Kosovo as Germans watch from the sidelines.
  
  2001 - Schroeder offers solidarity to America after 9/11 attacks.
  2002 - Schroeder bashes America to distract voters during election campaign.
  2003 - Germany sees rise in anti-Americanism after several decades of "poor treatment" from America.
  
  AND YOU THOUGHT THE FRENCH WERE A BUNCH OF UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS?
  

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  • Sounds slanted ... and accurate ... in the right direction. They left out the part about the 80 plus German companies which supplied Saddam's Iraq. (NT) -- William, 02:48:36 04/08/03 Tue
    • An the companies that kept Jewish slaves working in the mines, but is is a "brief" history, after all. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:24:20 04/08/03 Tue
  • An interesting review. Bias aside, how soon we all forget history, track records, and context, in our "instant gratification" culture. (NT) -- Spock, 10:58:02 04/08/03 Tue
  • OK, I give up. "1990's - America spends tens of billions to defend Germany from Islamic hordes." Help me someone, I don't recognise what this is referring to. I know the "Islamic Hordes" got to the gates of Vienna and introduced them to coffee, but that was Austria, and that was in 1683. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 12:33:19 04/09/03 Wed
    • The list (with no author) may be referring to preventing hordes of Islamic refugees from fleeing Bosnia-Herzgovinia/Albania into Germany. Just a guess. The term may be a misuse of the several historic events, even of 600 years ago and earlier. When you get this stuff in emails, you must take the content with a grain of salt, unless researched. That is why I clearly gave my source as unsolicited. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The point is that plenty of treasure and blood was spent on Germany. Too bad - I like their wines.), 16:41:09 04/09/03 Wed
      • I'm tellin' ya SG, wines from Chile or Southeast Australia are a darn sight cheaper and quite good too, and not so politically loaded...for now... (NT) -- Spock, 11:09:59 04/10/03 Thu
        • But I have an '83 Auslese that is ready to drink. I am not likely to buy more. I like the Australian Shiraz's (try Wyndam Estates Bin 555). (NT) -- SurveyGuy ( Wines mean much more to the French economy and pride. I just won't by any Mercedes-Benz [grin]), 19:03:15 04/10/03 Thu
          • Well, if you think about it, the farmers who make the wine are just earning an honest living, regardless of how jerky their government is. So, drink up and enjoy without guilt... (NT) -- Spock, 16:20:02 04/11/03 Fri
            • One of the strange twists is that Hollywood types like Francis Ford Coppola have bought large vineyards in California and are selling their wines. (Pretty good too.) Life is so complicated. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:57:32 04/17/03 Thu
              • Perhaps we should be motivated to learn to make our own wines? (NT) -- Spock, 11:37:00 04/18/03 Fri
    • Upon investigation, I cannot discover any clear reference to that item anywhere. In any event it does not change the main point. Thanks for pointing out the apparent error. Anybody note any other obvious errors in the list? The main point again is that either Germany is the cause of trouble, or needs to be assisted, yet their rhetoric was unnecessarily harsh in their dissent. Time to pull NATO out of Germany and let them spend their own damned GDP for defense. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The re-emergence of overt anti-semitism is something equally unsettling.), 14:34:36 04/11/03 Fri
    • do you get it now? -- repunzzell, 23:21:11 07/25/03 Fri

  ---

• Finally a scapegoat to blame for 911? Why do I get feeling that I am being misdirected? How can Al Gore have created the internet and Louie Freeh been such a Luddite? I thought alleged technophile Gore was going to reinvent government. How come Louie had such a bad barber? But I digress ... what's your take on this little new item? -- SurveyGuy, 18:36:05 07/23/03 Wed (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  PBS Show Blames Clinton's FBI Director Freeh for 9/11
  
  Bill Clinton's FBI director was so fearful of technology that he left America exposed to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, according to a documentary airing tonight on the pro-Democrat network PBS.
  
  "If this 'National Georgraphic Special' is to be believed, then Louis Freeh must have been the biggest knucklehead ever to run the FBI," Adam Buckman writes in today's New York Post.
  
  According to the program, one of his first orders upon taking over in 1993 was having the computer removed from his office. He was unfamiliar with e-mail and "was unconvinced that the bureau's outdated computer network would hamper the FBI's ability to close cases or prevent catastrophes."
  
  "This documentary," Buckman writes, "actually goes so far as to suggest that Freeh's unwillingness to modernize the FBI's computers left the bureau and the nation unprepared for 9/11."
  

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• It would seem the "crisis" in civil liberties is centered in NYC caused by the revenue drive of Mayor Bloomberg directing cops to ticket all minor infractions to raise funds. My reaction is to continue to stay the hell out of NYC. He ran as a Republican, desoite being a long-time Democratic supporter. While he may have a reputation as philanthropist, I see no kindness towards the working stiff. Several weeks ago, an $80 ticket was given to a guy resting on a milk crate for improper use of a milk crate. -- SurveyGuy (Still voting libertarian next time around), 13:43:24 07/20/03 Sun (pcp03884941pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.32.204.89)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33662
  YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
  Man hauled off by cops for using 2 subway seats
  Rider in NYC claims 'bum rap' after bust on almost vacant train
  
  A 21-year-old man was ordered off a Manhattan-bound subway and issued a summons by New York City police for stretching out across more than one seat on the nearly-empty train, according to a report in the New York Post.
  
  Regular subway rider Stephen Lamarch was on his way to his 4 a.m. shift at Rockefeller Center, where he works as a grounds landscaper. There was only one other person in the car in the early morning hours so he decided to stretch his 5-foot-6 frame over two seats.
  
  Unfortunately for Lamarch, subway rules ban taking up more than one seat per posterior.
  
  He tells the Post two plain clothes cops stepped onboard at one of the train's stops and said: ''NYPD. You're coming with us.''
  
  Lamarch says he was detained for about 15 minutes and grilled about his identity and destination before being issued a summons for taking up more than one subway-car seat.
  
  The summons reads: "Did observe respondent laying across three seats."
  
  Lamarch says he was only taking up two seats and didn't think it was a crime since it was 2:30 a.m. and the car was practically deserted.
  
  "I see stuff like this in the papers and I think it's ridiculous, how could that happen? And now it's happened to me,'' he told the Post.
  
  A police spokesman says the cops did the right thing.
  
  ''The New York City Police Department credits the enforcement of petty offenses with a 14.5 percent decline in major crimes in the transit system in 2003,'' the spokesman told the newspaper.
  
  Lamarch plans to fight the $50 fine, but the ordeal has already cost him. He was fifteen minutes late for work and docked an hour's pay.
  
  "I was taken off the train on my way to work, to earn a living. It's like a wrench in the gears and on top of it, I have to pay," Lamarch complained to the Post.
  

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  • I love this statement: "The New York City Police Department credits the enforcement of petty offenses with a 14.5 percent decline in major crimes in the transit system in 2003" the spokesman told the newspaper. I wonder if they will take this case to the Supreme Court and if it will be overturned there as they did with the Texas sodomy case. (NT) -- William, 18:34:45 07/21/03 Mon
    • Wheeeew! Wow! I feel so much safer now! (NT) -- William, 18:52:25 07/21/03 Mon
    • Yes, arresting and fining this man prevented a major crime -- two people resting. If they let this sort of thing continue, before you know it, the man might even have had the audacity to take a nap. Then he might get mugged. So you see, it was for his own good. They just forgot to tell him that when they hustled him off the train. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:19:22 07/21/03 Mon

  ---

• 
  Are multiculturalism and diversity merely code words for closed minds and censorship? Here's another example that idiots are in charge in our universities. I think I will start calling them "monoversities."
  
  -- SurveyGuy, 18:32:08 07/06/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  www.thefire.org
  Cal Poly Student Punished for Posting Flier
  Public University Gives Heckler's Veto to Students Who Claim “Offense”
  SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA—In the spring of 2003, a student at the California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly) was found guilty of “disruption” for posting a flier—in a public area—that some students found “offensive.” The public university placed unequal rights above the Bill of Rights. “Allowing some individuals to veto the protected expression of others is an unconscionable betrayal of Cal Poly’s moral and legal obligations,” said Thor L. Halvorssen, CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).
  
  On November 12, 2002, Steve Hinkle, an undergraduate and a member of the Cal Poly College Republicans (CPCR), posted fliers advertising a speech by Mason Weaver, author of It’s OK to Leave the Plantation. In that book, Weaver argues that dependence on the government puts many African-Americans in circumstances similar to slavery. Weaver’s speech was sponsored by both CPCR and the student government. The flier contained merely the title of the book, a photograph of the author (who is African-American), and the time and location of the speech.
  
  When Hinkle sought to post a flier on a public bulletin board in the Multicultural Center, several students approached him. They claimed that they were “offended” by the flier and that it was in violation of the Center’s posting policy. Hinkle left to check the policy, confirming that he was indeed in compliance. While he was gone, one of the students called the university police. The officer summoned to the Center stated in writing that he was investigating a report of “a suspicious white male passing out literature of an offensive racial nature.”
  
  The students in the Multicultural Center admit trying to prevent Hinkle from advertising the event. Charges were brought not against these censors, however, but against Hinkle himself. On January 29, 2003, Cal Poly charged Hinkle with “disruption” of a “campus event.” The students who objected to the posting of the flier claimed that they were holding a Bible study dinner and meeting at the time of the incident. The university’s “finding of facts” notes that the Bible study group is not officially recognized, that the bulletin board is in a public “student lounge area,” and that no notice of any kind indicated that a meeting was underway at the time.
  
  In February, Cal Poly subjected Hinkle to a lengthy hearing. He was denied the right to have a lawyer present at the proceedings, but his faculty advisor made a transcript. At that hearing, Cornel Morton, vice president for student affairs, told Hinkle: “You are a young white male member of CPCR. To students of color, this may be a collision of experience.… The chemistry has racial implications, and you are naïve not to acknowledge those.”
  
  On March 12, Vice Provost W. David Conn found Hinkle guilty. Conn ordered Hinkle to write letters of apology to the offended students. The sentencing letter from Conn stated that the text of the apology would be subject to the approval of the Office of Judicial Affairs. The letter also warned that “there is no parameter or guarantee regarding the confidentiality of the letter [of apology]” and that “this decision is final.” Conn informed Hinkle that if he did not accept this punishment, he would face much stiffer penalties, up to expulsion.
  
  Hinkle submitted his case to FIRE. On April 15, 2003, Greg Lukianoff, FIRE’s director of legal and public advocacy, wrote to Cal Poly President Warren J. Baker, urging him to defend Steve Hinkle’s fundamental constitutional rights. Lukianoff demonstrated the absurdity of a “disruption” charge against someone who was silently posting, on a public bulletin board, a flier for an approved campus event. Moreover, Lukianoff wrote, the “disrupted” students were “not a recognized student group and the ‘meeting’ was therefore not a ‘campus function.’ Ironically, Mr. Hinkle was actually posting fliers for an event that was sponsored by a recognized student group and by the student government, and it is he who has the far better claim to ‘campus function’ status.”
  
  Lukianoff continued: “All accounts agree that Mr. Hinkle, who only wanted to post a flier, was then approached by the students—not the other way around.” Hinkle’s accusers, he noted, “themselves initiated what they later claimed was his ‘disruption’….If they had allowed Mr. Hinkle to go about his constitutionally protected activity, there would have been no ‘disruption’ at all. All of this leads FIRE to draw the obvious conclusion: Mr. Hinkle and the CPCR are being punished for the content of their expression.”
  
  On May 9, 2003, Cal Poly’s legal counsel, Carlos Cordova, responded to FIRE’s letter. Cordova denied any wrongdoing and did not substantively address any of FIRE’s specific concerns. Today, Steve Hinkle remains punished for trying to post a factual, simple, and constitutionally protected flier.
  
  “I have been distracted from my studies because a handful of my fellow students want to see me punished for the content of my flier,” Hinkle said. “With FIRE in my corner, I now hope that Cal Poly will be made to respect my free speech rights.”
  
  “Cal Poly grants selected students abusive control over the expression of other students,” Halvorssen noted. “Disagreement, now called ‘offense,’ is all it takes to get Cal Poly administrators to launch an inquiry and secure a conviction on a spurious charge of ‘disruption.’ Cal Poly gives some people the power to veto what others have to say. Students at that institution now live in insecure possession of their most basic First Amendment rights.”
  
  The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education is a nonprofit educational foundation. FIRE unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and due process on our nation’s campuses. FIRE’s efforts to preserve liberty at Cal Poly and elsewhere can be seen by visiting www.thefire.org.
  

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  • Thor L. Halvorssen Chief Executive Officer FIRE will be on MSNBC's "Scarborough Country with Joe Scarborough" tonight. About 10:30 to discuss the case. Mr. Halvorssen is a local guy (NT) -- Chez, 18:33:38 07/07/03 Mon
    • Thanks for the alert. I am often amazed by your awareness of what I think are somewhat esoteric issues that are little publicized. This is the sort of issue that really makes one dispise knee-jerk liberals. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:38:47 07/07/03 Mon
  • SG, being a monoversity would be a giant step up for most "higher education" institutions -
    "polyversities" (as in polymorphously perverse) would more suitably describe the situation.... (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 20:11:52 07/14/03 Mon

  ---

• Truth is (sometimes) funnier than fiction. -- SurveyGuy, 16:42:52 06/27/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  As I read this short article, I thought to myself: "Gee, the Kennedy clan would make much more amusing real life MTV than the Osbornes."
  
  Friday, June 27, 2003
  Patrick Kennedy: 'I Never Worked a &#$@! Day in My Life'
  
  Wacky Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., is at it again. "I don't need Bush's tax cut. I have never worked a [bleeping] day in my life," he said Wednesday night at a gathering of Young Democrats at the Washington nightspot Acropolis.
  
  "With that he got the audience's attention - the dropping-jaws kind," the Washington Post reported today.
  
  The Post quoted one witness as saying, "He droned on and on, frequently mentioning how much better the candidates would sound the more we drank."
  
  According to the newspaper, Kennedy "let his mouth race ahead of his brain," which "sometimes happens with" him.
  
  So how much will Patrick be giving to the tax-me-more fund for Guilty White Liberals?
  
  To learn more about this particular Kennedy's history of bizarre behavior, click here.
  
  Despite this latest gaffe, Patrick still hasn't taken top prize in the hotly contested Stupid Sayings by the Kennedy "Clan." That honor would go to cousin Michael Skakel, for his infamous boast: "I am going to get away with murder. I am a Kennedy."
  

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  Replies:

  • Sorry - left out the "click here" link, so CLICK HERE instead. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:22:31 06/29/03 Sun

  ---

• Is this an allegory or a parable? Or maybe it's just a joke. -- SurveyGuy, 11:20:23 06/26/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  This joke is being circulated. Somehow it seemed appropriate to post it here.
  
  Dan Rather, Jesse Jackson, Cokie Roberts from National Public Radio and an Israeli soldier were hiking through the jungle one day when they were captured by cannibals. They were tied up, led to the village and brought before the chief.
  
  The chief said, "I am familiar with your western custom of granting the condemned a last wish. Before we kill and eat you, do you have any last requests?"
  
  Dan Rather said, "Well, I'm a Texan; so I'd like one last bowlful of hot, spicy chili." The chief nodded to an underling, who left and returned with the chili. Rather ate it all and said, "Now I can die content."
  
  Jesse Jackson said, "You know, the thing in this life I am proudest of is my work on behalf of the poor and oppressed. So before I go, I want to sing "We Shall Overcome" one last time." The chief said, "Go right ahead, we're listening." Jackson sang the song, and then said, "Now I can die in peace."
  
  Cokie Roberts said, "I'm a reporter to the end. I want to take out my tape recorder and describe the scene here and what's about to happen. Maybe someday someone will hear it and know that I was on the job til the end." The chief directed an aide to hand over the tape recorder, and Roberts dictated some comments. She then said, "Now I can die happy."
  
  The chief said, "And, Mr. Israeli soldier, what is your final wish?"
  
  "Kick me in the ass." said the Israeli.
  
  "What?" said the chief. "Will you mock us in your last hour?" "No, I'm not kidding. I want you to kick me in the ass." insisted the Israeli.
  
  So the chief untied the soldier, shoved him into the open, and kicked him in the ass. The Israeli went sprawling, but rolled to his knees,pulled a 9mm pistol from his waistband, and shot the chief dead. In the resulting confusion, he leapt to his knapsack, pulled out his uzi, and sprayed the cannibals with gunfire. In a flash, the annibals were all dead or fleeing for their lives.
  
  As the Israeli was untying the others, they each asked him, "Why didn't you just shoot them? Why did you ask them to kick you in the ass?"
  
  "What!?" said the Israeli, "And have you f***ers call ME the aggressor?!?"
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Oh God that is so true! Did I say GOD? ooooooo nooooo .... (NT) -- Gary, 13:40:05 06/26/03 Thu
  • Hah! Too funny. And too true. What do you want to bet the anti-gun crowd would be outraged over just such a situation, and rather than laud the brave man who saved himself and his companions, instead come down on him as a violent murderer of those poor primitive savages, and if it weren't for his guns, they'd...uuuuhhh....they'd all be dead....uuuhhh....wait a minute....there's gotta be a way to make the logic work here somehow.... (NT) -- Spock, 16:45:21 06/26/03 Thu
    • If it weren't for that mean, evil, aggressive, murdering Nazi Israel Soldier, those sweet, innocent, bothering nobody, cannibals would have had a very lousy meal of three very unpleasant individuals, while some might not mind Cokie Roberts as much as the others. As a result, those poor cannibals will go hungry and the children of those who were killed will now have to grow up without a father and/or mother. If not for that mean Israeli soldier interfering with their way of life! (NT) -- William, 00:36:27 06/27/03 Fri
    • Spock, does that help make the logic work? Gotta' find a way to nail that nasty Israel soldier for ruining the cannibals' dinner and saving his own life as well as those of Jackson, Roberts, and Rather. It was a clever situational comedy, was it not? (NT) -- William, 23:59:48 06/27/03 Fri
  • Another clever bit of humor, and so close to truth that it almost hurts! (NT) -- William, 00:31:42 06/27/03 Fri

  ---

• FBI Agent killed Vince Foster and Chandra Levy -- Barbara Bateman, 23:17:00 06/20/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  
  
  Vince Foster and Chandra Levy were killed by blonde FBI agent for Hillary Clinton, blue eyed, straight blonde hair, page boy,round face, security guard and possibly is/has been the same guard for Barbra Streisand.
  
  He wore FBI black suit and coat at Klinger Park on date of murder and ran to driver's side of mercedes/type car
  with creamy leather interior. No tie was on.
  
  Black guy also is perpetrator on Levy case,wore campaign hat, left eye is round, shallow, is the term, muscular trainer male.
  
  i was praying and fasting a year ago wnen I saw incident in late afternoon almost sundown when FBI agent ran to the car.
  Words were written in vision. I notified authorities in DC.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Vince Foster's body was found in Ft. Marcy Park. (NT) -- SG, 18:04:07 06/21/03 Sat
  • Chandra Levy was found in Rock Creek Park. I wonder what black, blue-eyed, blonde perp did to get allthese unrelated bodies moving around. (NT) -- SG [I heard fasting can cause hallucinations], 18:10:50 06/21/03 Sat
  • I was in a meditative state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi and I revisited the crimes. Vince Foster was done by the butler with the candle holder while Chandra Levy was done by Buddy, the Clinton's dog. He was run over by a car as a plot to hush him up before he spoke to Woodward and Bernstein and spilled the beans. Also, Osama bin Laden in now doing standup comedy on HBO and in a little town in Peru. Saddam Hussein is playing soccer for Sri Lanka's football team. (NT) -- William, 04:39:35 06/24/03 Tue
  • Elvis is living at 24,000 ft on K-2 and still keeps a home in Belize. He works under cover for the DEA. Jimmi Hendrix has changed his look and his name and has been playing cello for the Turino, Italia, Symphony Orchestra as Gino Valencia. (NT) -- William, 04:40:36 06/24/03 Tue
    • Like they said in Men in Black, the tabloids really ARE the best source of news, then, eh? (NT) -- Spock, 12:28:24 06/27/03 Fri

  ---

• Followup on a story a few months old. Maybe if more people would sue the bastards, we could get back some of our civil liberties. -- SurveyGuy, 11:31:43 06/26/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Judge: Woman free
  to wear cross to work
  Court rules in favor of agency employee suspended over Christian symbol
  Posted: June 26, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  A federal district court judge in Pittsburgh ruled yesterday an educational agency that suspended an employee from her job for wearing a cross pendant violated the woman's constitutional rights in doing so.
  
  The American Center for Law and Justice, or ACLJ, the public-interest law firm that filed suit on behalf of the teacher's aide, said the action represents a victory for the First Amendment.
  
  "We're delighted that the court acted to protect the constitutional rights of our client," said Vincent McCarthy, Senior Counsel of ACLJ, in a statement. "By granting our motion for a preliminary injunction, the court realized that the policies and actions of the state educational agency were not only wrong, but unconstitutional as well. ... The decision sends a strong message that laws and policies that result in religious discrimination are not acceptable."
  
  As WorldNetDaily reported, officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 in Pennsylvania suspended Brenda Nichol, 43, for one year for refusing to stop wearing a one-and-a-quarter-inch cross, which they said violated a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb. The woman is an eight-year employee of the agency.
  
  "I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," she told the Indiana Gazette in April.
  
  Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law on public schools, according to Dr. Robert H. Coad Jr., executive director of ARIN.
  
  The ARIN handbook says employees may wear a cross or other religious jewelry as long as it cannot be seen by others.
  
  
  Of the regulation, Nichol said at the time the suit was filed: "I could not follow that code in my heart. I could not deny Christ."
  
  In a 42-page order granting a motion for preliminary injunction, according to the ACLJ statement, U.S. District Court Judge Arthur J. Schwab said the state statute does not apply to Nichol because of her teacher's aide position, but that if it did it would be unconstitutional.
  
  The policy is "openly and overtly averse to religion because it singles out and punishes only symbolic speech by its employees having religious content or viewpoint, while permitting its employees to wear jewelry containing secular messages or no messages at all," the order said.
  
  The court concluded ARIN's policy violates the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment and ordered that Nichol be reinstated to her former position with full back pay and benefits pending final disposition of the case at a hearing Aug. 28.
  

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  Replies:

  • I wouldn't care if somebody had 2 dogs humping on a chain around their neck as long as they could get the job done. (NT) -- Gary, 13:37:34 06/26/03 Thu
    • That's one way of putting it...:) How do they feel about ankhs or crescent/stars? And there are plenty of people who wear religious symbols as jewelry purely as a fashion statement, not a religious one. It's one thing to wear something like a cross or star of David and go about your business while minding your own business, and another to be in others' faces about your beliefs. Personally, I'm sick of intolerant liberals who insist on shrieking their values and beliefs but muzzle anyone who thinks or believes differently. (NT) -- Spock, 16:32:39 06/26/03 Thu
  • SG, here's a thought -- if atheists came up with a symbol, do you think they'd be allowed to wear it under these circumstances? (NT) -- Spock, 16:37:07 06/26/03 Thu
    • They would now. This is a precedent setting case. Those who are religious should keep a copy of this on hand if some liberal moron decides they don't like something and plan to act on it. It will save a lt of time in court. I was sorry to see that there were no punitive damages reported for civil rights violations, just made whole financially and vindicated. I guess that's enough for justice. I guess if there's a repeat incident, the courts may feel differently. I say slap 'em around a bit now as a warning that if they do it again, their jobs may be in jeopardy. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (glad some people believe in something positive), 17:02:41 06/26/03 Thu

  ---

• News Flash! -- SurveyGuy, 08:56:08 06/13/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  News Flash!
  
  At Heathrow Airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a public school math teacher, was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a compass, a protractor, and a graphic calculator.
  
  Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious al-Gebra movement. He is being charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Al-Gebra -- John D., 13:21:43 06/15/03 Sun
    • On the contrary, I don't believe security folks are capable of original ideas. See Privacy International's Stupid Security Contest Page. Glad you liked the joke. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:01:25 06/15/03 Sun
  • I enjoyed the joke, SurveyGuy. Thank you.

    After the war in Iraq, after the rhetoric, the lies, the spin put forth by the oppostion here and abroad, including the Left and the Right, and after seeing how these people are still nit picking and fighting tooth and nail, this time trying to make Bush, Powell, Blair, et all, out to be evil men (as they tried to do before Iraq was liberated), I can see that people are misdirected and misguiged idiots. Russia, China, France, Germany, and others were involved in "illegal" activities with Iraq yet get a free pass. (NT) -- William, 02:52:20 06/16/03 Mon

  • The Arab countries are involved with anti-Semetic acts and sentiment as well as hatred of the West and not just the United States, and get a free pass. Iraqis were oppressed for decades and their oppressors get a free pass. The US President, Bush, Colin Powel, along with the US itself, and Britain's PM Blair are damned if the do and damned if they don't. The good guys are demonized and the bad guys are applauded and get a free pass, they can do no wrong. The world is sick! (NT) -- William, 02:53:23 06/16/03 Mon
    • Click here for more -- William, 03:04:57 06/16/03 Mon
      • People are getting nastier -- but only some of them. Many who need help actually believe all the racist mumbo-jumbo and insult those who are trying to help them. I have a feeling, though, that the extreme left who are in office may have finally antagonized the rational few on the left enough to send them to vote more conservatively. We'll see. Outrageousness may have worked in the past, but it is a song that is getting old. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 16:54:44 06/16/03 Mon
  • Poor, misguided soul....maybe he was just looking for direction in life? (NT) -- Spock (seeing your pun and raising you a wordplay), 12:16:39 06/16/03 Mon
    • One point penalty for protracting a bad pun. (NT) -- SurveyGuy [right back at ya], 22:34:20 06/16/03 Mon
      • That's acute one. (NT) -- Spock (ouch), 13:06:47 06/18/03 Wed
        • Spock, why can't I have your wit? (NT) -- William, 04:32:57 06/24/03 Tue
          • Always glad to share...it takes a certain angle... (NT) -- Spock (mind you if this is what higher math was all about, I'd have done much better in HS), 16:58:53 06/26/03 Thu

  ---

• Lite reading -- William, 04:25:15 06/24/03 Tue (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Once upon a time in a court room in a small town ...
  
  A small town prosecuting attorney called his first witness to the stand in a trial--a grandmotherly, elderly woman. He approached her and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know me?"
  
  She responded, "Why, yes, I do know you Mr. Williams. I've known you since you were a young boy. And frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a rising big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you never will amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you."
  
  The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do he pointed across the room and asked, "Mrs. Williams, do you know the defense attorney?"
  
  She again replied, "Why, yes I do. I've known Mr. Bradley since he was a youngster, too. I used to baby-sit him for his parents. And he, too, has been a real disappointment to me. He's lazy, bigoted, he has a drinking problem. The man can't build a normal relationship with anyone and his law practice is one of the shoddiest in the entire state. Yes, I know him."
  
  At this point, the judge rapped the courtroom to silence and called both counselors to the bench. In a very quiet voice, he said with menace, "If either of you asks her if she knows me, you'll be in jail for contempt of court in a heart beat!"
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  

  ---

• "Dr" Bryant is Mr. Bryant -- John, 20:39:46 06/16/03 Mon (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Reggie Bryant has a bachelor's and master's degree from Temple U. No doctorate. For additional details see the following site. http://www.delleast.org/instructors.html
  
  Reggie is always very antagonistic when people ask him about his credentials and he never corrects them when they call him doctor. I think he's a real phoney. He loves to say "it's not what you know that hurts you, but what you know that just ain't so". What a hypocrite.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Few here really care, since he is not an elected official or a news topic and few, if any, here listen to him. The post was old and someone replied to it, bringing it to the top. While it is an opinion, he just isn't news. You might want to start a thread on WHAT's talkers at www.phillytalkradioonline.com. This is just not a good forum for this topic. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 22:30:02 06/16/03 Mon
    • BTW I care SG because the “Voice of the African American Community” implies some type of civic responsibility. I am sure if someone called WPHT and said that “Hilter did not go far enough” they would be chided. I hear these types of comments regularly on “Mr. Bryant’s” show.. (NT) -- Chez, 10:02:30 06/21/03 Sat
  • Thanks for that info; Afro-Nazi Reggie is despicable. Survey Guy is right. You will probably get more responses if you posted on Philly Talk Radio forum. SG is it against the rules to repost this on the Philly Talk Radio forum? (NT) -- Chez, 09:55:16 06/21/03 Sat
    • I don't know -- ask Surf -- it's his board. Frankly, unless you have an interest, I'd let the poster do it himself. I don't see much interest it 'HAT there either. (NT) -- SG, 18:13:35 06/21/03 Sat

  ---

• An interesting essay on a spreading technology. How will it affect ur lives, if at all? -- SurveyGuy, 09:36:27 06/17/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  

  
  

  START

  essay

  
  
  Phonecam Nation
  Everyone's posting instant photos on the Web. Get ready for your close-up.
  By Xeni Jardin
  
  To read this essay, go to http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/start.html?pg=2
  
  After you have read it, consider the ramifications to personal privacy. I know the argument that if you are on a public street you should have no expectation of privacy, but is that really true? It is one thing to be transiently seen by the public, yet another to have your picture snapped and published so that anyone in the world can see it.
  
  No easy answers here. Just tell us how nervous this makes you and if you expect to have to punch out some people. Maybe it's a bad hair day or something. You don't have to be doing anything wrong to be annoyed by this. The potential for harrassment is great. Should we be concerned? Only time will tell.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • I've heard about this, and of some fairly flagrant abuses of taste -- people take their little cameras into locker rooms and other private-public locations and whoever's in there could find they're a new porn star on the internet. Whatever happened to asking permission to take someone's picture? Especially for publication? Common courtesy is a lost art, as is common sense. I can't think of a fitting penalty yet, but I am fully in favor of things like castrating rapists and death penalty for murderers, so something equally apt would do for amateur paparazzi. Ideas, anyone? (NT) -- Spock, 14:39:31 06/18/03 Wed
  • It's like that recent movie with Tom Cruise in it. Soon everywhere you go computers will track you by doing a retinal scan. You won't be able to go anywhere or do anything without a record. Sorf of like Easy Pass for life. (NT) -- Surf, 18:55:57 06/18/03 Wed
    • Have you got a credit check done lately? All your credit history and personal info is now on line.. (NT) -- Chez, 12:17:12 06/21/03 Sat

  ---

• Thought for today.... -- Spock, 10:37:53 06/19/03 Thu (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  
  "Constant complaint is the poorest sort of pay for all the comforts we enjoy."
  
  -- Benjamin Franklin
  
  
  (AKA, biting the hand that feeds you...?)
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  

  ---

• Reggie Bryant -- John, 13:07:28 06/18/03 Wed (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Reggie Bryant has a bachelor's and master's degree from Temple U. No doctorate. For additional details see the following site. http://www.delleast.org/instructors.html
  
  Reggie is always very antagonistic when people ask him about his credentials and he never corrects them when they call him doctor. I think he's a real phoney. He loves to say "it's not what you know that hurts you, but what you know that just ain't so". What a hypocrite.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  

  ---

• Maybe it will take some crazed parent shooting a principal to death before these little Napoleans stop picking on kids . . . -- SurveyGuy (not recommending -- just predicting), 16:06:17 05/17/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
  Girl gets 'unexcused absence' for Bush event
  Student sings in choir at presidential speech, punished with 'D' grades
  Posted: May 17, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  An Indiana eighth-grader was punished with an unexcused absence from her public school after taking the day off to sing in a children's choir for an event featuring the president of the United States.
  
  As reported by WRTV in Indianapolis, Brianna Tull missed school Tuesday to sing with the Indianapolis Children's Choir at Bush's appearance at the Indiana State Fairgrounds. Even though the Westfield-Washington School District allows for absences when the student is having an "educational experience," sharing the stage with the president did not meet that criterion.
  
  As punishment, Tull was told she was not allowed to earn credit for homework, tests and quizzes given that day. It's the equivalent of getting all 'Ds' for the day, the TV station said. This even though the Tulls notified the school beforehand that the girl would be absent.
  
  Brianna's father, Ken Tull, told WRTV: "It's totally ridiculous that you can't take your kids out of school for something this important. The president doesn't come here every day."
  
  District Superintendent Mark Keen had a different take on the event.
  
  "I'm not sure what was gained from an educational value," Keen told WRTV. "We're in school for 180 days to provide an education. Going to see the president is certainly an experience, but what did the child learn from that?"
  
  The choir sang before Bush addressed about 7,000 people at the fairgrounds coliseum, touting his latest tax-cut plan.
  
  Brianna said the presidential event was, in fact, educational.
  
  "I bet that I'm going to remember this forever and tell my kids. It's an historical thing," she said.
  
  Meanwhile, school districts in California appear to have different standards for approving absences. According to a story in the Oakland Tribune, several hundred Oakland and Berkeley public-school students traveled to Sacramento last week to protest against cuts in education funding on the steps of the state Capitol – on a school day.
  
  The paper reports a few dozen busloads of students, ranging in age from first-graders to high-school seniors, took part in the "Education Not Incarceration" rally. The rally reportedly was organized by the children's teachers.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • And people wonder why kids have screwed up priorities today....apples don't fall far from the tree, especially in good ole Indiany.... (NT) -- Spock, 12:36:45 06/16/03 Mon

  ---

• I subscribe to the vastly amusing "Dilbert Newsletter" -- In the current issue, Scott Adams offers this pithy commentary about current world events and attitudes.... -- Spock, 15:11:17 06/11/03 Wed (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  Dumb Rich People
  ----------------
  
  I recently read an article by an economist who said that poverty causes people to become terrorists. He used big words and was very convincing.
  
  Then I watched TV coverage of a high school hazing ritual in an upscale suburban neighborhood. Dozens of well-to-do Induhviduals paid for the privilege of sitting in a field and having mud, paint, garbage, eggs, pig guts, and excrement shoved up their nostrils while being beaten with blunt objects.
  
  I'm not an economist, but my theory is that you can convince a certain percentage of Induhviduals to do any dangerous thing, whether they happen to be poor or not. So let's stop picking on poor people. If peer pressure can convince 20% of rich kids to start smoking cigarettes -- and it does -- it isn't much of a leap to convince them to grow scraggly beards and drive exploding cars. It's mostly a difference in timing.
  
  Osama inherited half a billion dollars. So I rule out poverty as a cause of terror. I blame rich Induhviduals, and peer pressure.
  
  Peer pressure is the most powerful force on the planet, and we need to use it to our advantage. For example, I recommend that the Western media and politicians stop using the menacing-yet-cool phrase "Al-Qaeda" and start referring to the group as the "frickin' Induhviduals."
  
  Like the proverbial dog chasing a car, the Induhviduals haven't considered what would happen if they caught one. For example, let's say they (the Induhviduals, not the dogs) accomplish their stated goal of destroying the economies of the Western world. Is that really a good plan for people who live in a desert and import most of their food?
  
  Just for the record, if I'm down to my last potato, I'm not sharing it with a guy who wants to kill me so he can get a better supply of virgins in paradise. That lesson is a little thing I call Economics 101, infidel style.
  
  For the Induhviduals, it must look as if Americans are really dumb to have the most awesome arsenal in the history of the world and still be unable to stop terror attacks. They don't realize that the way Americans look at it is that, so far, we're "really mad," but not yet "REALLY, REALLY mad." Oh, there's a difference. Americans
  understand that somewhere between "inconvenient air travel" and "complete breakdown of Western civilization," the "REALLY, REALLY mad" part kicks in. I won't give away what happens then, but remember you first heard the phrase "New Iowa" in the Dilbert Newsletter.
  
  And let's stop calling the terrorist supporters "fundamentalists," because that sounds like it could be a good thing. I recommend a more descriptive label, such as "slow learners," to keep things in
  perspective. Then let's airdrop science and economics textbooks on their terrorist training camps with condescending notes, such as, "Maybe this will help. Call us if you have questions."
  
  This would be a small step, in the sense that reading books about economics is only slightly better than suicide. But you have to start somewhere.
  
  That's my plan. If you have a better one, be sure to include it in your next newsletter.
  
  ****************
  
  I find the Dilbert Newsletter to be rather handy for those much-needed laugh-out-loud moments (so far as you can get away with it at work, which is often more fun than at home). You can request a new subscription to the Dilbert Newsletter by entering your e-mail address HERE.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Thanks for the amusing post.( I took care of the duplicate post. ) (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:46:22 06/11/03 Wed
  • Thank you for the funny post, Spock. It is good to "hear" from you! (NT) -- William, 03:08:15 06/16/03 Mon

  ---

• This is news because it happens so seldom. What would you do? I know I would not have to thnk twice about returning any amount of money. However, I can understand the temptation to those who have little. Iwish they would have given her a small reward, however, just as a token thanks like $50 or $100. -- SurveyGuy, 20:38:16 06/05/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Woman finds bank bag with $1,700, returns it
  By Shanna McCord UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER June 4, 2003
  
  VISTA – It was the temptation of all temptations.
  
  A plastic bank bag full of cash sat in the middle of the street and no one was there to see Michelle Tamayo pick it up.
  
  She could have kept the $1,700 inside. She thought of all the bills it would pay off. She thought about her mother, dying of cancer and overwhelmed by hospital expenses.
  
  Just one problem.
  
  "The feelings of guilt would last a lifetime," Tamayo said. "It's not worth it."
  
  She turned the money over to its rightful owners at a Vista Napa Auto Parts store.
  
  Police say such acts of kindness are not unheard of. But most often, authorities say, it's finders keepers.
  
  Tamayo said she came across the cash while hurrying to visit her mother at a hospice during her lunch break Monday afternoon. The small bank deposit bag caught her eye.
  
  Tamayo stopped her car to pick it up, and discovered it contained a stack of bills and a cash deposit slip belonging to Napa Auto Parts.
  
  Tamayo's mind was racing. She thought about her major expenses – rent, car payment, insurance, food and clothing for her two young children. She thought hard about the comfort the extra money would bring to her life as an office manager making modest wages.
  
  Then she stopped thinking about herself.
  
  "I thought someone probably put it on top of their car and drove off," she said. "Someone could lose their job over this and I'd hate for a family to go through that."
  
  She brought the bag to her mother's hospice room, where the two joked that it was possibly a gift from God. But they both agreed it must be returned.
  
  "God can send us a check in the mail," quipped Tamayo's mother, Judy Secrest.
  
  With or without Mom's advice, Tamayo admitted that the temptation was strong. Police agree.
  
  "Normally when people find something on the street that has monetary value, turning it in to the police is not their first thought," said San Diego police spokesman Bill Robinson. "We don't hear about it very often."
  
  Tamayo said the manager at Napa Auto Parts was surprised when she showed up at the store with the money in hand.
  
  "We are grateful for honest people in Vista," manager Heather Stiner said yesterday. "It was the right thing to do and we appreciate it."
  
  Tamayo said she did not get a reward. She doesn't care. She figures that honesty is its own reward.
  

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  Replies:

  • I would have returned all of the money. I have gone through this numerous times in my own life. I cannot understand why people are not more honest and return that which does not belong to them, especially when the owner is clearly identified. I have been down on my luck and poor, or impoverished as well and I still would not keep what does not belong to me. If it is no mine, I will not keep it. I will seek Identification and return it to the owner. If I cannot find the owner through channels after some time then I see no problem with keeping it at that point. (NT) -- William, 04:39:00 06/06/03 Fri
  • I've had some odd reactions when I try to be honest in similar fashion -- there have been times when a salesperson forgot to ring up some of my items before bagging them, and I'd point this out when I checked the receipt. One was completely dumbfounded, saying how "rare" it was. I just remember my first job in high school as a cashier, where I got fired because a spotter made it through my aisle without paying for something hidden under the cart. I wouldn't want someone else to get fired who really needs the job. (NT) -- Spock, 10:52:52 06/10/03 Tue
    • I have often corrected errors made in my favor. Such honest is usually regarded with suspicion that gratitude once they understand you are trying to help. For me it is usually too much change like an extra $10. You should see their attitude when you try to return it. I have also reported someone I spotted stealing merchandise. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 18:59:10 06/11/03 Wed

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• I guess issuing a parking violation is more important in New York than saving someone from choking. Friendly courageous citizens; stinking unfriendly city government policies. About 2 weeks ago they gave a man an $83 citation for misuse of a milk crate-- he was resting and sitting on it. I hope I find out if this ticket is ever voided. -- SurveyGuy, 22:09:34 06/08/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Does this story mean that a police official was nearby ticketing the vehicle while the nurse was saving a choking victim? I guess focussing on the task at hand -- writing the ticket -- was a higher priority in Bloomberg's new New York. Good thing there are "administrative procedures" to address this IF the guy can "make a convincing case." He shouldn't have been ticketed in the first place if they didn't have idiots writing tickets under threats of disciplinary action. Now he has to waste a day in court and probably be insulted if the traffic courts in NY are anything like Philly. I don't think I'll be visiting New York again in my life or any time soon unless it can't be helped. --SurveyGuy
  
  
  http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/90350p-82133c.html
  Ticket's no choke
  RN saves man, and gets fined
  
  By OWEN MORITZ, DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
  
  Registered nurse Marty Rosenblum holds double-parking summons he got after performing Heimlich maneuver to save Jayson Michalski who had been choking on pizza.
  
  Comic book collector Marty Rosenblum played a real-life superhero, jumping out of his car to save a man from choking on a Brooklyn street.
  His reward? A ticket for double-parking.
  
  The registered nurse at Jamaica Hospital was on the way to his favorite comic book store in Park Slope on Wednesday when he turned onto Seventh Ave. A young man who looked familiar was in front of a pizza shop, choking.
  
  "He was crying and trying to spit out the piece," Rosenblum recalled. "It was obvious something had caught in his throat."
  
  Rosenblum slammed on the brakes and ran to the man, Jayson Michalski, a 25-year-old employee of Comics Plus, and applied the Heimlich maneuver.
  
  "He expelled a piece of cheese a good 10 feet," said the nurse.
  
  Michalski, father of a 2-month-old infant, said his choking episode came on faster than a speeding bullet.
  
  "I was talking to somebody," said Michalski. "Suddenly I was choking and gagging. "Thank God, Marty pulled up."
  
  After tending to Michalski for less than five minutes, by both men's calculation, Rosenblum returned to the car to find a traffic enforcement agent writing a ticket for double-parking, a $110 offense.
  
  It's little solace to the 43-year-old Rosenblum, married and the father of two, that the traffic agent was apologetic.
  
  "I'm so sorry to give you this ticket," Rosenblum quoted the agent as saying. It is unclear whether the agent witnessed the lifesaving incident.
  
  He said the agent even urged him to fight the ticket, which Rosenblum said he intends to do.
  
  NYPD Deputy Chief Michael Collins said Rosenblum can get the ticket waived if his case is convincing enough.
  
  "There are administrative processes available to those who may have been issued summonses in error or for those who may have a legitimate reason for violating these regulations," Collins said.
  

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• The French are now getting a dose of what many of us know to be true. It couldn't happen to nicer people. Maybe it will effect an attitude change. -- SurveyGuy, 15:22:00 06/06/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32935

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  Islamists stir up French university
  'I've traveled 1,700 kilometers so I don't have to see these people'

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  Posted: June 6, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
  

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  Replies:

  • The French Government have funded the building of Mosques for the Muslims residing in France. There are approximately (estimate) 6.5 Million Muslims of 60 Million French (more than one in ten). I have the impression that the French, including Jaques Chirac, are fearful of the Muslims and fearful of violent terrorist attacks and war with Islam. France has experienced attacks and bombings back a few years, including in Paris itself. France was also in the thick of it in Algeria more than once, a hotbed of Muslim avarice, as well as in the Ivory Coast and some French colonies in Africa. (NT) -- William, 02:51:57 06/08/03 Sun
    • Sometimes poetic justice comes in a different way than one would expect. Unfortunately, the U.S. has been far too permissive regarding immigration. U.S. blacks have their own version of Islam, yet many still condone/excuse the violence while claiming to love peace. How can you tell when a Muslim is lying? When he is talking to anyone but another Muslim. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:36:16 06/08/03 Sun

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• diabetics with heart problems...now pregnant -- Diane Risher, 13:25:12 06/06/03 Fri (ppp074.ras.irn.centurytel.net/66.112.29.201)
  I just found out my daughter is 9 weeks pregnant. She is a diabetic with heart problems. She also has Marfranz sendrom. We live in a small town...not much medical knowledge available...expecially one I would trust with this type of situation. I am going out of my mind with the worry of the risks she may be facing. Is this a more common medical problem than I realize. I need to know some facts as well as advice. Knowing my daughter there is NO way she would concider termination. Please help me with whatever you have on these facts...Thank you
  

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• It's not a flawed exam -- It's a flawed education. Let's first have the teachers take the exam. Let's see, ~61% needed and 6 tries (or more). Hmmm, ought to be possible. Only a 20% failure rate, so 80% can do it. -- SurveyGuy, 15:37:38 05/31/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59993-2003May30.html?nav=hptoc_ed
  As High School Exit Exams Cost Diplomas, Anger Rises
  Critics Say Tests, Curricula Mismatched
  By Michael A. Fletcher, Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, May 31, 2003; Page A01
  
  
  With a 3.0 grade point average anchoring a solid academic record, Robyn Collins, 18, has big plans once she graduates from Reed High School in Sparks, Nev. She intends to spend several months in National Guard boot camp before taking advantage of a state scholarship to go on to college.
  
  The only problem is that she might not graduate from high school.
  
  Collins is among 2,195 students -- 12 percent of the state's senior class -- who have completed all their course work requirements but will not receive high school diplomas this spring because they have not passed the math portion of Nevada's high school graduation test. Instead, they will be awarded certificates of attendance, which often are not recognized by employers or four-year colleges.
  
  Instituted as part of the reforms designed to shore up sagging confidence in public education, the latest generation of high school exit exams is stirring a backlash across the country. Legislators and educators in a growing number of states, including Nevada, Florida, Massachusetts, California, North Carolina and Florida, are facing pressure to delay or scrap the tests because of the number of students who are failing them.
  
  The brewing discontent highlights public ambivalence toward high-stakes testing. More than 80 percent of Americans say tests are a good way to measure whether students and schools are meeting standards. But just as many also say that schools should not rely on tests because some children are simply poor test-takers, according to Public Agenda, a nonpartisan public policy research firm.
  
  Test opponents say students should not be held accountable to one academic measure, contending they often fail the tests because they have under-qualified teachers or were never taught the material covered by the exams. In some places, special-needs students and students who speak English as a second language also struggle with the exams.
  
  "I've cried so much about this test," said Collins, who learned yesterday that she had failed the exam for at least the fifth time. "I'm not a stupid kid. . . . It is just that in my opinion, the stuff on the test doesn't equate to anything that I've learned in school."
  
  Test proponents, however, contend that the exams are easy enough that the vast majority of students should pass them. They note that there are multiple opportunities to take the test and that many states offer remedial instruction, and they contend that high school graduates should demonstrate competence in basic skills.
  
  Twenty-four states either require students to pass exit exams to earn a high school diploma or have such tests in the works, according to the Center on Education Policy, a D.C.-based education research organization. Virginia is implementing a new exam scheduled to take effect in 2004; Maryland will add a new test in 2008. The District has no exam planned.
  
  The tests typically cover basic subjects, including math, English and writing, that educators, business owners and others have determined should be mastered by any high school graduate.
  
  Earlier exit exams were aimed at ensuring that high school graduates were minimally competent in reading and basic math. But states have moved toward more rigorous exams that measure more complex skills that are supposed to be taught in high school, including more complicated reading questions, algebra and geometry.
  
  The exams are not part of the No Child Left Behind legislation enacted in 2002, which requires schools to give standardized tests in reading and math to students in grades three through eight.
  
  "Policymakers realized that high schools had been neglected in much of the school reform movement," said Keith Gayler, associate director of the Center on Education Policy, who tracks exit exams across the country. "They were looking for some sort of reform to put in place."
  
  But with thousands of students being denied high school diplomas they would have otherwise received, the reform has ignited opposition from students and parents who believe the tests do not reflect the curriculum covered in school.
  
  "There is definitely a disconnect," agreed Nevada State School Superintendent Jack McLaughlin. "I believe students will give you back what they're taught. But when this many students haven't passed a test after numbers of tries, something is not right."
  
  Florida community leaders and legislators launched a series of protests in April aimed at forcing a moratorium on the tests after state officials announced that nearly 13,000 students -- including a disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos -- would not graduate as scheduled this year because they had not passed at least one of the exams.
  
  The protesters are calling for a boycott of the state's lottery, major theme parks and the citrus industry unless the state backs off the exams, which became graduation requirements this year. So far, Gov. Jeb Bush (R) has brushed aside those threats, calling the tests integral to an education accountability process that has led to steady improvement in student achievement since 1998.
  
  Seven of the nearly 400 school districts in Massachusetts promised to defy state officials and award local diplomas to students who failed the state's high school graduation test after meeting all other graduation requirements. They issued their threats after a federal judge rejected an attempt by test opponents to remove the exams as a graduation requirement.
  
  Five thousand of the state's 60,000 high school seniors have not passed the tests, which became a graduation requirement this year. Students who do not pass the tests but meet all other graduation requirements are issued "certificates of attainment," which are frowned upon by employers and colleges.
  
  California's State Board of Education is considering whether to implement its graduation test as scheduled next year after a study found that the test has spurred widespread improvement in local school curricula but will result in 20 percent of the state's high school seniors being denied diplomas. In other states, including Alaska and Washington, officials have pushed back the effective date of graduation exams or proposed modifying tests to focus more squarely on basic skills.
  
  "People are wondering whether it is the students' fault that they can't pass these tests," Gayler said. "I think people aren't sure. But, meanwhile, there are serious economic and other consequences for the students who can't pass them."
  
  Nevada students are required to pass tests in reading, writing and math as a condition for graduation. Officials said that fewer than 2 percent of the state's seniors have failed the reading and writing portions. But the 60-question math exam has proven much more difficult.
  
  Some officials believe the test may have contributed to a recent increase in the dropout rate, as many students just give up on school, believing they will never pass the exam.
  
  In fast-growing Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, almost a quarter of the high school seniors had not passed the exam before the most recent round of testing on May 20. Part of the problem is that many students -- as many as 40 percent statewide -- have never taken algebra or geometry, which are included on the test. Also, school officials said, the fast-growing and financially strapped school district struggles to find qualified math teachers.
  
  "We have a constant effort to provide training for teachers," said Agustin Orci, deputy superintendent for instruction in Clark County schools. "But the attrition rate is high. There are many, many positions in the casino industry here that pay the same or more as a teaching job."
  
  The Nevada Assembly passed a measure earlier this year that would have suspended the math portion of the exam until educators audited it to ensure that it reflected the curriculum. The proposal, however, was derailed in the state Senate.
  
  Proponents of the Nevada test say it is not that difficult. Students must earn a score of 304 out of a possible 500 to pass the multiple-choice exam. And even if students have not been exposed to all of the items on the test, some education officials believe the exam includes plenty of material with which students should be familiar.
  
  "The kids don't have to know everything to get a passing score," said Debbie Smith, chairwoman of a Nevada committee that sets educational standards. "More than anything, I'm worried about turning these kids out into the work world unprepared."
  
  But others say one test alone cannot measure that. Tyler Douglass, 18, a senior at Cimmaron-Memorial High School in Las Vegas, has been a solid student: He has a B average, has taken a smattering of honors classes and is qualified for Nevada's Millennium Scholarship, which would award him as much as $10,000 in college scholarships over four years.
  
  But like many students in Las Vegas, he has not passed the state's math exam.
  
  "Because you can't get through this one exam, you can't get a diploma?" said his mother, Jill Douglass. "It is really easy for people to say our high school students should know this, this and this. And we do need standards. But you can't expect people to pass an exam if they are not being taught all the material on the test. It's a flawed exam, that's the problem."
  
  

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• An interesting commentary, very much like we have been saying for the past two years -- SurveyGuy, 07:19:45 05/18/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32627
  
  
  

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  Nuts shaken from same tree
  
  

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  Posted: May 17, 2003
  1:00 a.m. Eastern
  
  
  
  
  
  You would think that Muslims everywhere would be horribly embarrassed that, in the name of their religion, a handful of criminals are running around the world slaughtering innocent civilians. Why is the Muslim world not rising up in a single voice to condemn these killings and demand that the criminals stop, or at the very least, stop defiling the name of the Muslim religion?
  
  Suppose there were a band of Christian criminals, running around the world targeting Muslims with car bombs, and fully-loaded airplanes, demanding that the non-Christian-infidels vacate the planet. I can't imagine that the rest of the Christian world would be as quiet as is the Muslim world. I can't imagine that the leaders of the Christian world would look the other way, or send money to the families of the Christian-criminals whose sons and daughters died while committing murder. I can't imagine that the Christian community would allow a band of hate-filled, low-life criminals to paint for the world, the bloody picture of what their religion actually is.
  
  Silence from the Muslim world is nothing less than approval of the criminals' actions.
  
  Sure, there have been a few Muslim leaders who condemn the terrorists' actions. But there has been no organized, determined effort to put an end to the senseless slaughter by the Muslim religion. Muslims could stop the foolishness, if they chose to do so. Someone knows where Osama bin Laden is. Someone knows where every terrorists cell is located. Every terrorist has a family, friends, a source of money. Every Muslim terrorist – since they act in the name of the Muslim religion – is affiliated with a Muslim spiritual leader. Why is the Muslim community not tightening the noose around the necks of these criminals?
  
  Come to think of it, why is the mainstream environmental community not tightening the noose around the necks of the domestic terrorists who perpetrate their crimes in the name of the environment? The Earth Liberation Front, and their sister organization, the Animal Liberation Front, are cut from the same hate-filled, low-life criminal cloth as the Muslim terrorists. Someone knows who burned the ski lodge in Vail, Colo. Someone knows the people who committed every act of eco-terrorism in this country. The mainstream environmental community could put an end to this foolishness, if they chose to do so. Why are they so silent? Why do they look the other way?
  
  Terrorism is terrorism, whether committed by a religious nut, or an environmental nut. Both types of nuts have one thing in common: They are either too arrogant, or ignorant, to understand the first principle of civilized behavior. The principle is simply this: Any right that I claim for myself, I must freely grant to all others.
  
  If Osama claims the right to embrace the religion he chooses, he must be willing to grant that same right to all others. Of course, he has not yet discovered that this principle is the basis of civilized behavior, and, therefore, his behavior is far from civilized. Osama is not alone in his failure to discover this principle. It is far too simple, too profound, for bomb-wielding, Molotov-cocktail-tossing criminals to notice or care about.
  
  It is a principle that has escaped the notice of many people who claim the right to choose how they wish to live, but then insist that everyone else live as they dictate, denying to everyone else the right they claim for themselves. The nuts that congregate under the ELF/ALF tree have every right to choose not to drive SUVs. But to inflict terror on those who make a different choice, is at once, the height of arrogance, and the depth of ignorance.
  
  Muslims who choose to embrace Islam have every right to do so. To refuse to grant to all others the same right to choose – even if their choice is different – may be the result of arrogance or ignorance, but it is certainly uncivilized.
  
  If the Muslim world fails to rise above the image that Osama bin Laden, and his fellow criminals are painting, the rest of the world will eventually lose the great Muslim heritage. The rest of the world will continue to blunder its way toward civilization, leaving the eco-nuts and the religious-nuts to pretend they are martyrs in their backward-looking dreamworld.
  
  The civilized world is eager to move forward, to find ways to cooperate, to expand friendship and commerce, to broaden educational horizons for everyone, and to elevate prosperity for every person on earth, to help all people everywhere know the individual freedom that the Creator intended for all creatures on this earth – even humans.
  
  The eco-nuts and the religious nuts are trying to stop the unstoppable flow of civilized progress. Both Islam, and environmentalism need to remove the obstacles to progress, by cleaning the nuts from their midst.
  

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  • After 9/11 took place anyone who said or expressed that they thought that Islam was a religion of violence, bloodlust, and murder was branded a racist, xenophobe, paranoid, hateful, and on and on. President Bush repeatedly claimed that Islam is a religion of peace. We know that one of the tenets of Islam as preached by Mullahs and others is that it is perfectly acceptable to lie to the infidels, anyone who is not Muslim. We also know that Muslims are being shovel fed hate filled rhetoric in the mosques and in radio sermons, especially in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian areas, and elsewhere. (NT) -- William, 23:56:34 05/19/03 Mon
  • I see no clear example of Islam as a religion of peace. All I see is Islam as a religion of violence, murder, domination, intolerance, and hell bent on dominating the world and establishing Islamic rule and killing all "infidels" while working toward that end. (NT) -- William, 23:57:43 05/19/03 Mon
  • If Jews and Christians EVER allowed that their respective religions should permit them to lie to others in the name of sidling up to them so they could convert them or kill them the Useless Nothings would have a fit! Where's the fit here? ~Sigh~ (NT) -- JL, 22:31:36 05/20/03 Tue

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• Terrorist Attacks in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Last night I was, to say the least, rudely disturbed. For an unknown number of others, it was the stuff of nightmares, if they were lucky enough to survive. This is more of my personal account than an attempt to engage in debate - I'm just not in the mood for that. However I'm sure I'll be coming back to the point at the end. -- Chris Henry, 03:09:59 05/13/03 Tue (cache2-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.12)
  Now that morning has come, we're able to put together more of a picture of what has happened. It was a major series of attacks, and I fear that the death toll will be high.
  
  We were woken at about 1130 on Monday night by the bedroom window rattling. I looked out, couldn't see anything, thought it was "just one of those things", and went back to sleep. A little later we were woken by the persistent sound of sirens. Shortly after, we received a call from someone as part of the pre-arranged "cascade warning system". He told us that there had been a bomb at the Al Hamra compound, about a kilometre from here, a housing compound that also contains the British School.
  
  The rest of the night was taken up with phone calls and emails. We know many British School staff. Most of them had moved to Al Hamra in the last 3 months, "for safety". Fortunately all were well apart from minor cuts, although one friend of ours had to go to hospital for treatment. Two colleagues of mine also live there; one had gone to Kuwait for a job interview, and we later tracked down the second, who was thankfully unharmed.
  
  The same couldn't be said of their flats and villas. This is a 300 metre square compound. According to the people we have spoken to, every single one has lost its windows, many have had their patio doors dislodged, and heavy front doors have been blown into interior rooms. And those were the buildings that were left standing. Many were flattened or are just shells. One person we know was sleeping, completely covered by his quilt; he woke to find it covered in broken glass. Another had been watching television, had got up when he heard a commotion, and therefore had a narrow escape when the window blew in and a large shard of glass went thru his just-vacated seat.
  
  It now appears that 3 compounds were hit simultaneously in commando-style attacks. Two of them were obviously inhabited by US citizens, but Al Hamra is very mixed, with diplomatic staff from around the world, and a high proportion of Lebanese and Egyptian Arabs.
  
  Al Hamra, like all compounds, has a perimeter wall, a heavy main gate that is normally closed except for access, and security guards on the gate and on patrol. Our compound manager, who heard the account from the Al Hamra staff, said that a resident's car had just been allowed through the gate when two cars and an MPV "tail-gated" through after it, firing at the guards with machine guns, throwing "football-size" bombs out into the road, and shooting at anyone who happened to be around. They then drove each of the cars to an obviously planned spot - next to an apartment block, or next to the owners's house (reputed to be the son of a Government Minister) - and detonated the bombs contained within the cars. I assume this was a suicide attack, but cannot confirm this. The closest buildings were destroyed, and every single building was damaged beyond habitability. The BBC World News at 0600 is quoting 3 dead, in all the attacks. My colleague within Al Hamra, surveying the wreckage, believes the figure for just this one compound could be 40 to 60. I pray to God that he is wrong, but that number would be consistent with the scale of damage.
  
  The two other compounds, being US-occupied and I believe defense-related, actually had armed guards in watch towers. These were attacked with machine guns, I understand with some deaths, before a similar bomb attack took place. Again there is damage and there are fatalities, although no reliable figures yet.
  
  We're now at home in our compound, with a doubled armed guard, and access even more tightly controlled than before. I've not had much time to sleep, but one thought occurs to me - how did the invasion of Iraq help in the "War against Terrorism"? To my simple mind, it looks as though it has just fuelled another escalation.
  

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  Replies:

  • Right from the start, I just knew that you'd come back to blaming the U.S. You did not disappoint me. You know this has little or nothing to do with Iraq. Frankly, I hoped for better of you. Heck, Iraq had some of their troops in Saudi Arabia during the Kuwait incursion! (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I wouldnlt work in Arabia any more than I'd work for the government), 20:25:59 05/13/03 Tue
  • Your half-expected 'last minute' snipe destroyed any sympathies I carried for your pretentious expression of your plight. I cannot wait until all of our fine military men and women have left that pit of lunatic Wahhabism. I am sure you will still blame us for the many failings of such a barely evolved 'culture'. Your kind always does. Enjoy co-habitating with Islam ... the religion of peace and love. You deserve each other. (NT) -- JL, 21:53:44 05/13/03 Tue
  • What revealing observations. I was so impressed, I pasted this section into the Exxon Riyadh intranet, to see what some of our other US expatriates thought. Their responses so far are interesting, I'll share them in a while. In the meantime, JL, do you have any words of comfort for the families of the 20+ dead Northrop Grumman employees who were similarly "co-habiting with Islam"? And I'd really appreciate a coherent answer to the question I posed. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:08:36 05/14/03 Wed
    • They would have my sympathies, as much as any victim of terrorism would. However, I would question the judgement of someone placing themselves and their families in danger by choosing to occupy a part of the world that harbors those who hate all things Western. Especially in a country that subsidizes terrorist acts. Guess their NIMBY payoffs aren't working as well as they once did. Keep up your America bashing. It's good to know what the enemy is thinking. (NT) -- JL, 20:22:13 05/14/03 Wed
      • OK, tell me what "your side" thinks, whoever they are. Tell me how conquering Iraq has helped to win the war on terrorism. I'm ready to be convinced, if you can put forward a strong argument and not just pseudo-patriotic waffle. Go ahead. Convince me. I'm waiting. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:53:17 05/15/03 Thu
        • Only time for a quickie, but an important one, IMHO. No Saddam Hussein = no coin promoting Palestinian homicide bombers by paying off their families. Will revisit further when I get back. (NT) -- JL, 20:17:47 05/15/03 Thu
          • It would be nice to think so, but just about every shopping centre in the Middle East has a booth taking "charity" collections for Palestine. Any more? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:17:35 05/17/03 Sat
            • Chris, Iraq, through Saddam's regime, was supporting terrorism directly. He issued checks for $25,000 to families whose members murdered Israelis. Now he has been toppled and he is no longer issuing checks for this service of murder. JL is correct. One source of such blood money has dried up. There are more, like the Saudis who hold telethons which raise several million dollars for bloodthirsty murderers, the Palestinian terrorists, and they will have to be dealt with also. (NT) -- William, 00:03:31 05/20/03 Tue
            • William has made my rebuttal in this instance for me. Good fellow that he always is (Thx, big guy!). However much more of it we need to counteract, there is THAT MUCH LESS to deal with.......... -- JL, 20:57:08 05/20/03 Tue
      • Many people place their lives in danger to some extent. Not only expats working for US companies overseas, but also the armed forces, cops, firemen, miners, construction workers, people living in "tornado alley", on the San Andreas fault, in the Hurricane Belt. The Founding Fathers showed a serious lack of "judgement", not to mention the settlers in the West. Thank God for people who lack your finely developed "judgement". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 08:48:45 05/15/03 Thu
    • What it appears that you attempted to do, whether or not you realize it, is to use those violent deaths to attempt to gain sympathy for a political position that you hold. Shameful at best. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (we understand more about the Saudi situation vis-a-vis the religious hold over the secular government), 21:39:57 05/14/03 Wed
      • I'm blushing with shame. I should watch fellow-citizens get blown up but not question it, unless of course I come out agreeing with you, in which case it's OK. Same challenge to you as to JL. Then you can afford to be sanctimonious. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:58:01 05/15/03 Thu
        • Right - no one died here. I don;t expect to convince you of anything. You must do that for yourself. While you remain in your current environment, your views will reflect that. I hope you stay here BECAUSE we disagree with you and you want to know what we poor uninformed folk think, not because you expect us to change our minds. ... continued - click -- SurveyGuy, 22:21:46 05/15/03 Thu
  • bombing in Riyadh -- Jo, 09:02:02 05/14/03 Wed

  ---

• A Entertaining Commentary Writer -- SurveyGuy, 07:45:57 05/18/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  I have come across this young man's commentaries - Vox Day. See his archive at http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=175
  
  The dude has a really bad haircut, but a different and engrossing writing style on a wide variety of topics. Enjoy or not as you choose.
  

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• Exxon staff reply to Surveyguy and JL. Oil people can be quite blunt - I've left out the stronger replies. Enjoy. -- Chris Henry, 00:28:30 05/15/03 Thu (cache10-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.29)
  These 'stay home, small town, never been out of state' types really get me. They look down on guys like us who work in some foreign shithole desert or swamp, but they soon bellyache when their gas goes up one cent or they can't get the favorite brand of bean in their laatte. They make me sick.
  
  Tell them that Bob Hernandez of Parsippany, NJ, will be home on leave in June and would be glad to meet them anywhere they choose so he can explain to them where their friggin gas comes from.
  
  Don't these guys have real names. Like, are they ashamed of their families or something. Did they ever have families? SurveyGay rhymes better
  
  This surveyguy, (I wouldnlt work in Arabia any more than I'd work for the government), it must be good to have such fine principles and be able to choose where to work. Most working stiffs take what they can get. You go to college to study Petrochem, you don't get the chance to work in some fag advertising agency or be a fashion photographer. Maybe he's on welfare. Sits in front of TV all day eating chips and turns down offers from Wall St.
  
  Chris, you always ask awkward questions and I usually disagree with your answers. But these people haven't begun to figure out what's going on in the world. Probably haven't figured out why they need to dump every morning.
  
  Small minds, mean spirits, a bad combination
  
  JL is obviously an expert on Saudi Arabia, must be the Readers Digest article he read. Maybe he'd like to come with me on a 10-day geo survey in the Empty Quarter in 130-140 temps, and then tell me I'm really a Muslim. He’d better bring a compass.
  
  I was down at Al Hamra this morning, helping out. Not a place you want to be. Makes you think. Last night they were still picking body parts out of the trees. There was a Chevy bent like a soda can. A kid’s bike wedged thru an upstairs door. Surveyguy has all the answers. Tell us why it really happened. Then tell the people who died. What a jerk.
  
  Chris, why do you talk to these people? Newsgroups like this are the dark underbelly of American politics. Look how they immediately say you are anti-US, anti-American. Typical "Patriots". Drive around in a Suburban with a big flag out the window. Call their children Hank, even the girls. Hate government, taxes, Gun Control, homosexuals, Democrats, Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, and obviously Expats. Can be described as 'Festering pustules on America's butt". Who said that? Me probably.
  
  JL is too fussy to work in rough old Saudi. He leaves that to suckers like me. He thinks that the gas in his tank comes from rat piss. He won’t go to foreign countries because they talk funny and you can't get a good burger. If everyone was like him, we would still be scratching beans out of the ground in Plymouth MA.
  
  What I find depressing about the JL reply is that he dismisses the human story just to attack the political point. Politics first, people last, just like a terrorist.
  
  What do you expect, they are from the Northeast. Like you, Chris.
  
  Surveygay wont work in Saudi, and neither will I, but I’m here. Shit happens.
  
  I was moved by the account, Chris, and we all have our own story to tell of that night. Your problem is your last para. Should of said “And they all lived happily ever after” ;-)
  
  These people are all the same, they just expect us to keep the oil flowing but are not interested in the crap we have to put up with. We should send our oil to the Far East where they’re at least grateful, let the ingrates back home pay $10 a gallon and then they’ll start to think about the real cost.
  
  That JL is real ignorant. Because we live here, that makes us Muslims? So when we work in Nigeria, that makes us Witch-doctors? And Moose-worshippers in Alaska? Dream on, JL. We do the job, we get paid, we get laid. End of story.
  
  Where does that guy get off, picking and choosing where he works? Like he’s always turning down big deals from Hollywood? Like he needs a secretary to stop headhunters bugging him? The man with the dream CV, I’m honored to have met him.
  
  They sit on their asses next to the a/c and make smart-ass comments about how we’re like working for government and how we deserve the towel-heads as friends, and then come home to watch baseball on TV with a 6-pack. We pump oil out of the ground in heat you could broil a T-bone, and get blown up and shot at when we come home. Maybe they’re not as stupid as we are.
  

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  Replies:

  • I would have expected no less. I've worked with lots of people who used to work for Bechtel many years ago so I understand the "family" feeling - they called Bechtel "the old man.". We all make choices. I chose to avoid engineering jobs finally because then there was a 5-year cycle of work-no work in aerospace. We still say that to use such tragedy to try to foist your own politcal position is shameful. Click to read the rest . . . -- SurveyGuy (wondering if Saudi employment resembles the Stockholm syndrome), 22:07:57 05/15/03 Thu
  • ADDENDUM: Since they took the trouble to write, they deserve a reply. This is mine. Others can comment if they wish on their own. -- Surveyg=Guy, 22:46:26 05/17/03 Sat
    • I have copied the URL to them, so whether they respond directly is up to them. They mostly have their own favorite fora, not to mention the day-job. We'll see. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:57:58 05/18/03 Sun
      • Thanks - I felt a replies were deserved since they all took the time to express themselves so imaginatively. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 07:28:54 05/18/03 Sun

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• Perhaps Carter has breathed too much peanut dust . . . or found an old stash of Billy-Beer. Naahh, just more liberal nonsense and lies eventually shown to be so. This time when the Butcher of Havana shows his true colors yet again. Note the parallels elsewhere with "blame America" for Castro's brutality. -- SurveyGuy, 16:36:14 05/17/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Carter Silent On Castro's Crackdown
  Dave Eberhart Friday May 16, 2003
  
  Jimmy Carter is the self-appointed globetrotter on behalf of human rights.
  
  But when Carter friend Fidel Castro unleashed a brutal wave of repression recently, that included extradjudicial executions, Carter’s reaction was silence, followed by muted criticism, and finalized with a stinging criticism of . . . the United States.
  
  On just about the one year anniversary of Carter’s historic trip to Cuba, his new amigo Fidel Castro rounded up 75 political dissidents and independent journalists and packed them off to jail for 28 years each.
  
  Although formally accused of conspiring with U.S. diplomats to undermine the socialist state, the apparent crime of almost all was their championing the so-called “Varela Project,” a petition calling for greater basic liberties – and the absolute centerpiece of Carter’s controversial mission-impossible-without-portfolio to the communist island.
  
  The Cuban president followed up by ordering the execution of three men accused of terrorism in an unsuccessful hijacking of a passenger ferry headed to the United States. The three summarily went before a firing squad April 11 without so much as a final farewell to family and loved ones.
  
  On March 21 when word of the initial arrests and detentions of the Varela dissidents hit the world media big-time, Carter issued only an anemic press release:
  
  “I am deeply concerned about reports of detentions of Cuban citizens known for supporting the Varela Project, promoting human rights, and practicing independent journalism. The international community supports their rights to the protections afforded by the Cuban constitution. I call on the Cuban government to respect those rights and to refrain from detaining or harassing citizens who are expressing their views peacefully.”
  
  But Carter also seemed to place part of the onus of Castro’s human rights abuses on the shoulders of the U.S.:
  
  “I also am troubled by the rising tension between the Cuban government and the U.S. Interests Section in Havana. I urge my own government to work with the Cuban government to deflate those tensions and establish a relationship of mutual respect.”
  
  Later, after the draconian sentences were handed down, Carter certainly did not rush onto the Sunday news programs to express the expected emotions of disgust, disappointment and betrayal-in-the-first-degree.
  
  In fact, to this day there is still nothing on the Carter Center website about the Castro debacle – other than that same lackluster and dated press release quoted above.
  
  ’Needless to Say’
  
  Although Carter says he has written a letter to Castro condemning the dictator’s tidal wave of repression and urging him to cut back the sentences, he adds that he has no plans to revisit Cuba.
  
  Other than that, there’s not much more that Carter has put on the record, and what there is remains strangely bloodless:
  
  “Needless to say, I have been very disappointed by what has occurred in Cuba,” Carter said when he finally broke silence. “The dissident movement has been severely crippled, and I would presume Draconian measures adopted by Castro will be maintained.”
  
  “Many of the dissidents, democrats, freedom fighters and human rights heroes with whom we met have been arrested and given extremely severe and unconscionable punishment,” Carter added. “This has been an indication, I believe, that people working for improved human rights situations in Cuba have become more effective and more of a threat to Castro. It is obvious that he has decided to clamp down with extreme severity and, I have to admit, with a great deal of success.”
  
  Carter opined that Castro’s “deplorable” actions have meant a real setback to efforts of moderate voices on both sides of the Straits of Florida to improve relations between Washington and Havana.
  
  When asked to comment about potential administration moves to further sanction Cuba by cutting off personal remittances – estimated at $1 billion a year – sent by Cuban-Americans to their families living in Cuba, or to cut off charter flights from Miami, New York and Los Angeles that shuttle Cubans back for short visits to the island, Carter said:
  
  “All this hurts the people of Cuba. None of it hurts Castro. As a matter of fact, it just strengthens his hand and gives him an excuse to punish the people and also blame the United States for [Cuba’s] economic failures.”
  
  “Certainly for the time being, everything is coming to a halt,” Carter summed up.
  
  The Past is Prologue
  
  When then President Carter signaled his hopes of normalizing U.S.-Cuban relations, Castro responded with the unseemly and insulting 1980 Mariel exodus, in which the dictator sent criminals and psychiatric patients to the United States along with thousands of other fleeing Cubans.
  
  Out of office in 1996, the ever-hopeful Carter stood on the sidelines and applauded President Clinton’s reluctance to support a bill tightening the embargo. Castro responded by shooting down two unarmed planes operated by the Miami-based Cuban-American Brothers to the Rescue. The thaw quickly went back to the chill.
  
  The great Carter pilgrimage to Cuba was to follow the same pattern – only this time the wily Castro was only a bit more subtle and circumspect before plunging the dagger into Carter’s back and twisting.
  

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• Modifying the constitution...? -- Rod, 11:48:04 05/17/03 Sat (NoHost/64.255.100.112)
  Modify the constitution because it is basically a legal contract? That is the dumbest thing I believe I have ever heard.
  The constitution is not just a 'legal contract'. It is the basis of our nation and the foundation by which we perpetuate ourselves as Americans. If you "modify" that document, you change this country, and not necessarily for the better.
  There is a diffence between "amending" and "Modifying."
  We amend when its a good thing (with the exception of the prohibition. That was a bad idea and America learned its lesson and repealed it.)
  But modifying the constitution the way this so-called "patriot" act determines is not only self-destructive for this nation... it is seditious. Those who support it are traitors, pure and simple. Anyone who supports undermining the document which this nation was founded upon and defined by ...those people are the true traitors and ironically (compared to the Act's name) the most UN-patriotic.
  My family has been in defense of this nation in every war before this one, all the way back to our war for Independence. And I will be damned if I allow my ancestors' struggles, to win and maintain liberty and freedom, die at the hands of a cocaine-using, drunk-driving, greedy, spoiled, rich Texas oil brat who cares nothing for anyone but himself or his pack of oil-corp/ceo buddies.
  Anyone who argues for the validity of the patriot act or the just means by which Bush reigns shoot be placed in front of a firing squad for treason.
  Pure and simple.
  If this offends you, then I guess you better check you ethics and loyalty real quick.
  We are citizens and defenders of this nation... not one spoiled little rich kid destroying it.
  

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• apartment for rent in stockholm (sweden). -- Daniel, 11:45:47 05/16/03 Fri (NoHost/212.247.19.156)
  A nice furnished apartment to rent for tourists in stockholm.200 euro week..50 euro day..
  Daniel.
  

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  Replies:

  • I need somewhere quiet to stay for a few weeks. Do you take dollars instead? (NT) -- S.H., 01:48:59 05/17/03 Sat

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• Saudi Arabia delays U.S. team investigating Riyadh bombings -- JL, 22:15:51 05/14/03 Wed (pcp01376707pcs.selrsv01.pa.comcast.net/68.80.69.241)
  Courtesies to Haaretz and CBS
  By Nathan Guttman, Haaretz Correspondent and Haaretz Service
  
  An FBI team sent to investigate the suicide bombings on Western targets in Riyadh has been delayed in Germany as it awaits Saudi permission to enter the kingdom, leaving the U.S. still waiting to test the level of cooperation with Saudi authorities.
  
  The team's goal will be to evaluate the extent of the damage and to begin an initial investigation into the bombings in an attempt to determine who was behind them.
  
  Sources in the American security establishment expressed fear that the delay of their arrival on the scene of the attacks will make efforts to secure witnesses more difficult.
  
  Despite the hold-up, the White House noted that cooperation with the Saudis is good. U.S. President George W. Bush spoke by telephone with Saudi Crown Prince Amir Abdullah and received a promise for full cooperation in the investigation.
  
  White House spokesman Ari Fleischer called the conversation "good" and said the U.S. believes that the Saudis will put offer all aid in order to clarify the circumstances of the attacks. In the conversation, Abdullah called the attacks "monstrous" and promised to capture and try the responsible parties.
  
  Last week, after it became clear there were fears of potential attacks in Saudi territory, the U.S. Embassy requested the Saudi authorities increase security around facilities in Riyadh in which American citizens live.
  
  According to Robert Jordan, U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, there was no Saudi response to the American request for additional security.
  
  "We are continuing to work with the Saudis on this issue, but up until the tragic attacks they did not supply the additional security that we requested," Jordan told CBS.
  
  Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal said Wednesday that there were gaps in Saudi security ahead of al-Qaida-linked attacks on civilian residential compounds that killed at least 34 people, including nine suicide bombers.
  
  Saud added that 15 people were believed involved in the Monday night attacks, but had no details on the six who presumably survived.
  
  "The fact that the terrorism happened is an indication of shortcomings and we have to learn from our mistakes and seek to improve our performance in this respect," Saud said at a news conference in the capital.
  
  Saud said he had not received a request from the American ambassador to intensify security measures around the U.S. facilities.
  
  John Burgess, a U.S. Embassy consular official, confirmed Wednesday that Jordan sought futilely to get security tightened around all Western residential compounds in Riyadh before Monday night's attacks.
  
  "We had requested security enhancement for Western residential compounds and what was provided clearly was inadequate," Burgess said.
  
  For example, Burgess said, Saudi officials may have provided extra police patrols for a day or two, but then pulled them. He did not say when Jordan made his request or provide other details of the measures the ambassador sought.
  
  In his news conference, Saud said he had not received such a request from the American ambassador.
  
  "But, in each time the American embassy or any other embassy seeks the intensification of security measures, the government fulfills this request," Saud said.
  
  Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef was quoted Tuesday as saying he did not rule out more attacks.
  

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• "homophobic" reverend? -- jc, 17:24:49 05/12/03 Mon (clgrtnt6-port-124.dial.telus.net/161.184.50.124)
  to the dude so worried about the homophobic reverend: by definition, all the judeo-christian, abrahamic and other dominant world religions, are 'homophobic' in that they all censure the practise. So get over it. And as for "stopping" this reverend, who is really more like Hitler, Stalin and Mao now -- those guys were the masters of censorship. Concernig the youths who began clapping upon reference to the fact that Trudeau (rightly) liberalized laws governing homosexual behaviour, is it not equally possible that they had been brainwashed to support that position, by the public schools -- otherwise why would they care one way or the other? Just as the reverend should get over your sexual lifestyle, you should get over other people's religious and moral lifestyles. You are no better than those you deride. Get over yourself -- what you do in bed ain't that important.
  

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• . . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . Yet Liberals try to abridge our freedoms every day. But so does Ashcroft, et al on the other side. -- SurveyGuy (You have to sue to protect your liberties. Yet losing more each day re surveillance and few seem to comprehend. ), 13:35:40 05/10/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  LAW OF THE LAND
  Cross-wearing woman sues over suspension
  Teacher's aide punished after refusing to remove religious symbol
  © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  A teacher's aide who was suspended for refusing to remove a cross pendant she regularly wore to work has sued the education agency that employs her for allegedly violating her constitutional rights.
  
  As WorldNetDaily reported, officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 in Pennsylvania suspended Brenda Nichol, 43, for one year for refusing to stop wearing the cross, which violates a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb. The woman is an eight-year employee of the agency.
  
  "I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," she told the Indiana Gazette last month.
  
  The American Center for Law and Justice, a public-interest law firm specializing in religious-freedom issues, filed the federal lawsuit on behalf of Nichol in U.S. district court in Pittsburgh this week.
  
  "The actions taken by this agency represent a serious violation of our client's constitutional rights," said Vincent McCarthy, senior counsel of ACLJ. "The law is very clear on this issue – school personnel do not shed their constitutional freedoms when they enter the school house door. To punish a teacher's aide for merely expressing her free speech rights is not only wrong, but unconstitutional. We're confident that the court will correct this injustice and protect the First Amendment rights of our client."
  
  Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law on public schools, according to Dr. Robert H. Coad Jr., executive director of ARIN.
  
  According to the ARIN handbook, employees may wear a cross or other religious jewelry as long as it cannot be seen by others.
  
  Of the regulation, Nichol said, "I could not follow that code in my heart. I could not deny Christ."
  
  According to a statement from ACLJ, the suit names as defendants ARIN Intermediate Unit 28, its executive director and several other supervisors. It contends the actions of the agency violate the First and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution and Pennsylvania law, including the state's Religious Freedom Protection Act. The law firm says Nichol also will file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and will pursue charges that the suspension violated federal law.
  
  "There is nothing wrong with Brenda Nichol wearing a cross pendant to work," said McCarthy. "This is a legitimate desire to exercise her deeply held religious beliefs in a manner that is consistent with both state and federal law."
  

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  • "Crosses and Stars of David are examples of prohibited jewelry under the state's law". Same law in Saudi Arabia. Who's imitating whom? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:40:43 05/11/03 Sun
    • My point exactly. We are turning into a country with no liberties and goofy intrusive busy-bodies with nothing better dto do. It is time to fight back as this woman is doing. The problem is that citizens remain ignorant -- just the way the government likes it. I guess the school will have to remove every window with "crosses" in them, and dozens other structural manifestations that I am sure could be pointed out. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Hope that someone follows this case.), 12:55:34 05/11/03 Sun

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• More allegations of French complicity and deceit. -- William, 04:42:44 05/06/03 Tue (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)
  France helped Iraqis escape
  Bill Gertz
  The Washington Times
  
  Published May 6, 2003
  
  The French government secretly supplied fleeing Iraqi officials with passports in Syria that allowed them to escape to Europe, The Washington Times has learned.
  An unknown number of Iraqis who worked for Saddam Hussein's government were given passports by French officials in Syria, U.S. intelligence officials said.
  The passports are regarded as documents of the European Union, because of France's membership in the union, and have helped the Iraqis avoid capture, said officials familiar with intelligence reports.
  The French support, which was revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means, angered Pentagon, State Department and intelligence officials in Washington because it undermined the search for senior aides to Saddam, who fled Iraq in large numbers after the fall of Baghdad on April 9.
  "It made it very difficult to track these people," one official said.
  A second Bush administration official said, "It's like Raoul Wallenberg in reverse," a reference to the Swedish diplomat who supplied travel documents to help Jews escape Nazi Germany in World War II. "Now you have the French helping the bad guys escape from us."
  Asked about the passports, Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman for the French Embassy, said French authorities have not issued any visas to officials of the former Iraqi regime since the beginning of the war in Iraq, either in Syria or elsewhere.
  "France formally denies this type of allegation, which is not only contrary to reality but is intended to discredit our nation," she said. "It is certainly time for rumors of this type ? totally unfounded and a dishonor to those who spread them ? to stop."
  The French passports allow the wanted Iraqis to move freely among 12 EU countries that are part of the Schengen agreement on unrestricted travel. Britain, Denmark and Ireland are not part of the Schengen pact.
  The intelligence on the French passports came after reports indicated that a French company covertly sold military spare parts to Iraq in the weeks before the war.
  Other intelligence reports indicated that a French oil company was working with a Russian oil firm to conclude a deal with Saddam's government in the days before military action began March 19.
  The French government also denied U.S. intelligence indicating that a Chinese chemical company used French and Syrian brokers to circumvent U.N. sanctions in providing Iraq with chemicals used in making missile fuel.
  Regarding the French passports for fleeing Iraqis, Pentagon officials have expressed frustration that few of the most senior leaders identified on the list of top 55 officials of the Saddam regime have been captured.
  The capture yesterday of an Iraqi biological weapons scientist, Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, brings to 19 the number of senior Iraqi leaders who have been caught. One has been reported killed.
  Only one of the captives is ranked in the top 10.
  Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said Sunday that he did not know how many Iraqi officials had been given haven in Syria.
  "Some have been made available to us," Mr. Powell said on CBS' "Face the Nation."
  "Let me put it that way: Who we knew were there are no longer there," he said. "They've been made available to us, and they will be before the bar of justice of the Iraqi people."
  Mr. Powell said other wanted Iraqis have been identified to the Syrian government "to see whether they can be located."
  "But my sense from President Bashar al-Assad is that he has no interest in serving as a haven for any of these individuals," Mr. Powell said. "So I think if we can give him information and give him specific names and anything else we can say about these people, I think he would try to respond."
  It could not be learned whether Mr. Powell and the Syrian president discussed Iraqis who might have transited through Syria to other nations.
  Mr. Powell said Syria has been "helpful" in the past two years in dealing with the war on terrorism, primarily through U.S. and Syrian intelligence liaison.
  The secretary also told Mr. Assad that "there may be people in Syria that we don't know about but you know about" who should be turned over to U.S. forces.
  "This is the time for you to locate these individuals and turn them over to Iraqi justice and not allow Syria to become a haven for materials that might be coming out of Iraq still, or came out of Iraq or individuals who are trying to seek haven," he said.
  Under pressure from the United States, Syria in the past several weeks expelled more than 30 Iraqis, many who came from Saddam's hometown of Tikrit.
  After first granting sanctuary to former Iraqi intelligence official Farouk Hijazi, Syria turned him over to U.S. officials in Iraq.
  Congress is considering legislation that would impose economic sanctions on Syria for its support of terrorism and to pressure it to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and stop building ballistic missiles.
  

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  Replies:

  • A Classic! We go from the huge 32-point "France helped Iraqis escape" headline to the smaller print of "The Washington Times has learned", "U.S. intelligence officials said", "said officials familiar with intelligence reports", "revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means". All the tell-tale phrases of BS journalism. Never supply any facts if they get in the way of a good story, especially if it smears both Syria and France at the same time. What next? "Saddam Hussein is now a familiar sight strolling down the Rue de Rivoli", informed sources have revealed? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:04:01 05/06/03 Tue
    • While what you say is true regarding catch-phrases, please note that French official denials were also quoted. Now it remains to be seen whether reports or denials are shown to be true. The Post, on the other hand will quote "Democratic party sources" but rarely print Republican rejoinders. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (wondering if France would take in Osama), 11:19:54 05/07/03 Wed
      • "wondering if France would take in Osama". Interesting thought. No doubt the French-Algerian population would welcome him initially. However some of his "home movies" on Al Jazeera showed him to be an arrogant racist. He's very fond of the arabic word for "slave" which some in the Gulf use when referring to those of African origin, Arab or otherwise. So he'd probably get his throat cut within 2 days, and discover whether terrorists really go to Paradise. In my view he's a creature of his own region, and will never stray beyond the Gulf or Central Asia. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:58:35 05/08/03 Thu
        • Chris, Osama has been buying slaves to work his drug crop. He uses Kalishnikov rifles as part of the monetary system or barter system to purchase his African slaves, who are often young boys. (NT) -- William, 15:36:23 05/10/03 Sat
  • Why do France's denials all sound so much like the (late) Iraqi Minister if Misinformation..."the Americans are not here and never have been....but we still have them surrounded and have completely overcome them....they are running away like infidel rabbits, and we have killed them all and they are hanging themselves by the thousands..." Must have the same press writer. (NT) -- Spock, 12:37:08 05/07/03 Wed
    • ...and Ari Fleischer's quote "I think the French will have to explain what they did or did not do." is a masterpiece of sly innuendo. It's quite simple - produce an Iraqi escapee and their Damascus-issued French passport. Until then, in the time-honored phrase, they should "Put up or shut up". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:48:17 05/08/03 Thu
      • D'accord! During the war (feels so odd using that phrase for a 3-week conflict) Jeff Katz featured a "casting call" on his show for the hypothetical film, "Saving Private Lynch." One caller suggested Jon Lovitz to be the Iraqi Misinformation Minister. It's a toss-up -- he could go for M. le President too..."We are America's best friends!" Yeah, right. (NT) -- Spock, 12:20:30 05/08/03 Thu

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• Here's a topic that interests me. This was just received on a political-technical news list to which I subscribe. It may explain why we are still in bed with France and other G8 nations. -- SurveyGuy (1984 is just around the corner, Winston ....), 19:19:06 05/09/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  ---
  
  Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 17:38:32 -0400
  From: J Plummer
  Subject: NCP: Privacy Villain: G8
  
  Privacy Villain of the Week:
  G8
  
  Word from Paris this week is that the G8 nations http://www.g8.fr/ -- the governments of France, Germany, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States, Italy, Canada, and Russia -- have agreed to develop a biometric passport system, perhaps complete with barcode, eye scan, and fingerprints.
  
  Taking the lead on working out the details of the scheme will be the US government and its purported nemesis, the French.
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17566-2003May5.html They may disagree on the proper level of violence to utilize in engineering an international takeover of a third-world country, but have had an evident meeting of the minds on the necessity of tracking and tracing their own citizens in the most Orwellian ways possible. The two countries hope to have the details worked out by the end of the year and to roll out the brave new papers by the end of 2004.
  
  And leave it to the United Kingdom, the homeland of Big Brother, to use the plan as a pretext for mandating such identification papers for all their citizens, not just those who have the temerity to travel. Home Secretary Jack Straw told the London Daily Telegraph that the new passports would be an excellent mechanism to do just that.
  http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/06/npass06.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/05/06/ixnewstop.html No doubt the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators is salivating at the idea of similarly bootstrapping their plan to
  biometrically ID all Americans via their drivers' licenses.
  http://www.nccprivacy.org/handv/011206villain.htm
  
  The international track-and-trace scheme will of course be justified by invoking the terror bogeyman. If the leaders of these nations are so afraid of terrorists, it might be a better idea for them to just watch who they let enter their countries and grant citizenship to, rather then subjecting the personal details of their own citizens to the whims of international bureaucracy. The Patriot Act and other measures have in the past two years set up a number of programs to track who is enteing the United States. Yet apparently this is not enough for the US government, as its delegation in
  Paris, led by Attorney General Ashcroft, has decided to take the lead in designing a system to biometrically catalogue Americans. This is akin to the scheme that has the Canadians telling Homeland Security about every American who egresses the US by the Northern border -- while the Southern border is virtually wide open -- no retina scan required!
  
  http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030410.uimmi0410/BNStory/National/?query=border
  
  It would be a miracle if such a card system were made to work without saving the biometric data in government databases, as a pilot program at Amsterdam airport is purportedly doing.
  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/international/europe/25AMST.html
  Some US states already require submission to a fingerprint database in order to
  get a driver's license.
  
  What can we expect from the massive new database ostensibly designed to prevent identity fraud? Well, we already know that fingerprint scans can be forged with gummi worm technology.
  http://cryptome.org/gummy.htm
  As Congressman Ron Paul (and numerous others) point out, "transformation of the Social Security number into a de facto uniform identifier . . . facilitates the crime of identity theft."
  http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr052201.htm A recent GAO report provided a handful of the many examples of poor security practices the federal government uses in protecting SSNs. http://govt-aff.senate.gov/031103prescouncilrpt.pdf
  
  All of this is because Congress has increasingly acquiesced to, or indeed mandated, the widespread use of the SSN as an identifier by government and business. If France, Ashcroft, and the G8 push this scheme through Congress, can we expect any better in the future. Today, when one punches "SSN" into google, at the top right of the results is a little ad selling personal information based on nothing more than the government-issued number. How long will it be before a similar ad pops up when you search on fingerprints? You might ask the gaggle of Privacy Villains in Paris.
  
  By James Plummer
  
  
  The Privacy Villain of the Week and Privacy Hero of the Month are projects
  of the National Consumer Coalition's Privacy Group. Privacy Villains and
  Heros audio feature now available at FCF News on Demand. www.fcfnews.com
  For more information on the NCC Privacy Group, see www.nccprivacy.org or
  contact James Plummer at 202-467-5809 or jplummer@consumeralert.org .
  
  
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• This flight sucks! Close the door!

  Air disaster in the Congo. -- William, 13:17:09 05/09/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  
  
  129 Congo Air Passengers Feared Dead
  Rear Door of Cargo Plane Flying Across Congo Opens Mid-Flight, Sucking 129 Passengers Out
  
  via ABC News
  
  The Associated Press
  
  
  KINSHASA, Congo May 9, 2003, approximately one hour ago.
  
  The rear door of a Russian-built cargo plane burst open as the aircraft was flying across Congo and 129 passengers were sucked out, airport officials said Friday.
  
  Defense Minister Irung Awan confirmed the accident occurred Thursday night, but said he was unaware of any deaths among the 200 people aboard.
  
  After the accident occurred some 45 minutes into the flight, the pilots managed to turn back and land the plane in Kinshasa, Awan said.
  
  Two officials at the international airport in Congo's capital, Kinshasa, independently told The Associated Press that 129 people were feared dead after being sucked out of the plane. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.
  
  The plane, a privately owned Ilyushin 76, had apparently been chartered to transport Congolese police and their families from Kinshasa, to the southeastern city of Lubumbashi.
  
  After the accident occurred some 45 minutes into the flight, the pilots managed to turn back and land the plane in Kinshasa, Awan said.
  

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  ---

• News Item! -- William, 12:48:28 05/09/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  The William News Journal

  "All the news that fits, we print"

  
  

  ---

  
  Terrorists' Twin Tower Images, Secret Porn Messages
  
  By Alexandra Salomon ABC News - story link
  
  ROME, May 8 ? Investigators analyzing computers seized from an Italian mosque say they have uncovered images of the twin towers that were downloaded just days before the 9/11 attacks, as well as a trove of pornographic photos they believe were used to conceal coded messages.
  
  On Sept. 4, 2001, according to investigators, pictures of the World Trade Center were saved as temporary files on one of the computers at the Via Quaranta mosque in Milan ? the mosque frequented by Abdelkader Mahmoud Es Sayed, also known as Abu Saleh, an Egyptian currently on trial in absentia in Milan on charges of international terrorism.
  
  Court documents from the ongoing Milan trial, cited by the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, say that police discovered images of the World Trade Center along with numerous files that contained images downloaded from the Internet of political leaders such as President Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, as well as large quantities of pornographic material, also taken from the Internet.
  
  The images, investigators said, had been manipulated ? their colors modified ? before being sent back onto the Web.
  
  Police believe this was one of the ways that al Qaeda cell members communicated, encoding, in many instances, pornographic images that were were traded back and forth, an investigative source confirmed.
  
  The practice is known as steganography. Read a Brian Ross report to find out more.
  
  Police confiscated 11 computers from the Via Quaranta mosque in November 2001, according to court documents, after issuing an arrest warrant for its founder, Es Sayed, during an investigation into an Islamic terrorist cell headquartered in Milan that provided logistical support to the al Qaeda network.
  
  Several key members of the cell have been convicted in the Italian courts, and five others are on trial in Milan, charged with association to international terrorist groups, falsification of documents and aiding illegal immigration.
  
  Milan prosecutors believe that Es Sayed was an al Qaeda lieutenant sent to Italy to recruit new members to send to the terrorist network.
  
  During an investigation that lasted more than two years, police recorded conversations between Es Sayed and a Yemeni man who referred to "studying airplanes."
  
  During one wiretapped conversation in August of 2000, the Yemeni tells Es Sayed that "God willing, I hope that I can bring you a window or piece of airplane the next time we meet."
  
  Italian investigators have never determined a direct link between the Milan cell and the Sept. 11 attacks, but the images of the twin towers that investigators say the discovered on the computer hard drive suggest that perhaps at least one of the Milan cell members had knowledge of the attacks before they occurred.
  
  The digital evidence is still being analyzed.
  
  Police say they found material that they describe as "interesting" on several of the confiscated computers. The hard drives of all the computers had all been erased but were reconstructed in part by computer experts collaborating with the Milan courts, the investigative source said.
  
  In conversations recorded during more than two years of investigation, cell members often referred to computers and Web sites, and made frequent use of Internet cafes to exchange information, the source confirmed.
  
  Although the investigators were able to determine how the images were manipulated, they have not yet been able to decode the messages that might have been conveyed by those manipulations.
  
  According to a report in the Corriere della Sera, the Italian investigators have asked for help from experts in the United States.
  

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• Unreal. -- JL, 09:07:38 05/04/03 Sun (pcp01376707pcs.selrsv01.pa.comcast.net/68.80.69.241)
  Baghdad-Style Looting At U.N. Eateries
  By Heidi Singer
  Courtesies to the New York Post Online
  
  'May 4, 2003 -- A crazed mob of diplomats angry at being made to wait for lunch because of striking restaurant workers rioted in U.N. cafeterias Friday and looted them of thousands of dollars in food, booze and silverware.
  
  "It was chaos, wild, something out of a war scene," an executive from the company taking over food services for the United Nations told Time magazine. "They took everything."
  
  The food fight was sparked by an impromptu strike at the United Nations' five eateries.
  
  Hungry diplomats were getting crabby, according to the magazine, so a high-ranking official ordered the cafeteria doors thrown open around 1 p.m. - and that's when all hell broke loose.
  
  The raid was "unbelievable - crowds of people just taking everything in sight. They stripped the place bare," said an observer.
  
  So many liquor bottles were raided that one U.S. diplomat said he lost count.
  
  An official from Aramark Corp., which took over operations of the restaurants in March, estimated between $7,000 and $9,000 worth of food was taken, plus silverware and booze.'
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • I wonder what it will finally take to get these scum out of NY and out of the country? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I have wanted them gone for over 20 years), 14:10:45 05/04/03 Sun
    • "Scum"! Strong word. Who are you referring to, UN diplomats, or foreigners in general? Are you absolutely sure that no US citizen was part of this rabble? Especially given the quote "one U.S. diplomat responded: "I stopped counting the bottles." He then excused himself and headed towards the men's room." - no wonder he couldn't count, he probably couldn't remember his own name. There are very few countries that are so lily-white that they can get sanctimonious about everyone else - possibly only Iceland. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:28:08 05/06/03 Tue
      • U.N. diplomats and their cronies. The story IS about the UN after all. After years of spies with diplomatic credentials, flauting of local laws, etc., etc. plus the outrageous, and useless, goings on, these scum should be finally asked to leave and tyake their organization with them. Will it happen? Of course not. I have been in favor of moving the UN to Paris (or Cuba or anywhere else) for at least 20 years. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:35:03 05/06/03 Tue
      • 'Scum' is fitting to me. If U.S. citizens were involved in this mayhem, they also are befitting of the adminishment of 'scum'. Savages in $2000 suits, whomever and wherever. End of story. Waste of valuable real estate. (NT) -- JL (Been with ya on this one big time, SG), 20:10:08 05/06/03 Tue
        • "Scum" is fine with me as well, just as long as we include all the nationalities involved and don't assume it was just Syrians, French, and other members of the "Coalition of the Unwilling". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:21:35 05/07/03 Wed
          • No, it is the whole organization. No one has the guts to leave. I guess the U.S. will have to lead the way again . . . hopefully. The U.N. will cross the line, whatever that is. The problem is the shadow government that wants this "New World Order" with the U.N. as the "front" for it all. Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but unfolding events seem to confirm it. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Noting that diplomacy is just a polite way to lie to your face.), 11:59:47 05/07/03 Wed
  • Hello, JL! Thank you for the story. I have the Time.com story which covered this incident from a few days ago. For those who are interested, click here, and you will also have access to the Time.com link itself as well as the article, including some of my own comments or quips about the UN. -- William, 13:54:04 05/05/03 Mon
    • It really is pathetic, this demonising of the UN because the Security Council wouldn't support a resolution to go to war with Iraq. Why? Because they didn't believe the evidence on WMD's. That's hardly surprising, since weapons that according to Blair were "45 minutes from being launched", still haven't been found after all this time (and there are no weapons inspectors to blame now). The UN may be "scum", but at least they're not gullible. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:40:38 05/06/03 Tue
      • What is pathetic is your weak and dishonest protests. It is not because the so-called Security council did not believe in the WMDs, Chris, and I am almost surprised that you are that dishonest to even try to claim that here. The UN Security council voted 15 - 0, unanimously, in support of UN Resolution 1441, the 18th resolution in 12 years, all 17 prior resolutions flagrantly violated by Saddam. Afterwards some back tracked and did not wish to follow through and support action against Iraq's leadership when they revealed their continued violations. (NT) -- William, 06:06:39 05/06/03 Tue
        • I am unclear why you are accusing me of dishonesty. Is it my assertion that the UN is being demonised because it wouldn't pass the second resolution? Is it my assertion that it wouldn't pass because they didn't buy the WMD allegation? Or is it something else? In other words, what "It" are you referring to? Please clarify. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:27:12 05/06/03 Tue
          • Chris, I think this statement is dishonest: "It really is pathetic, this demonising of the UN because the Security Council wouldn't support a resolution to go to war with Iraq. Why? Because they didn't believe the evidence on WMD's." The UN security council did believe that Iraq had/has WMDs. They showed this belief by voting 15 - 0 in support of resolution 1441. You know that all of them believe it, even France, Germany, Russia, China, Syria, and others all believe/d that Iraq did have WMDs. (NT) -- William, 15:19:57 05/06/03 Tue
          • You are saying that they opposed the US because the did not believe Iraq had WMDs. That is dishonest. Also, it has been revealed that Russia, France, China, and others, were profiting, illegally also, by dealing with Iraq. The UN is gullible. They believed that more sanctions and more inspections would resolve this issue. They were wrong! (NT) -- William, 15:24:08 05/06/03 Tue
            • Now I understand. However I don't have direct access to UN ambassadors. Therefore what I'm putting forward is an opinion. I'm not putting it forward as a fact, therefore the question of honesty or dishonesty does not arise. An opinion is what I sincerely believe, but if I'm proved to be wrong, that doesn't make me a dishonest, just mistaken. The same applies to your opinions, I think they're wrong, but I'm not calling you dishonest. I don't think it's an appropriate word for a civilised discussion group. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:13:07 05/07/03 Wed
              • Many of us here have wanted the U.N. to be expelled for over 20 years. This new crew with Annan at the helm only serves to intensify our belief. It has little to do with recent events. They are merely more of the same. The only difference is that the U.S. public is starting to pay attention. France should have just voted and shut up, but they didn't realize so many were paying attention. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 12:08:19 05/08/03 Thu
      • Among those were countries or states which were already involved in deceitful acts with Saddam. This is what has come to light. The French, Chinese, Russian, Syrians, and others have been complicit in supporting Saddam and contributing to the abuse of the Iraqi people, all while making like they were peace makers. Their hypocrisy has been revealed but you choose to ignore these and live in a fantasy land. (NT) -- William, 06:07:48 05/06/03 Tue
        • Let's talk about support for Saddam Hussein. In a Fantasy Land, long ago, in 1983 and 1984, Iran was our enemy. Iran was fighting Iraq. Therefore Iraq was our friend. Rumsfeld went to Baghdad twice to meet our new friend the President of Iraq, and this led to the resumption of diplomatic relations. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:46:37 05/06/03 Tue
        • At the same time, the UN (no less) was reporting Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Iran. Our Ambassador at the time to the UN said "“We think that the use of chemical weapons is a very serious matter. We've made that clear in general and particular.” Tut, tut, boys will be boys. The US did not issue a call to arms - how could it, when Rumsfeld was glad-handing it with the Butcher of Baghdad. How about that for hypocrisy? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:48:00 05/06/03 Tue
      • Yes, the UN, as it has been recently, has been scum, or worse. The nations who supported Iraq's sadistic leader and demonized the United States, is more useless as road kill, and they are gullible. How do you think they went along with Saddam, France, Germany, et al? How do you think that they actually believed that UN Inspectors would be of any use in Iraq? They were so gullible that they actually believed that Iraq would comply with UN Inspectors after he did not for 12 years and he did not comply this time either. (NT) -- William, 06:13:28 05/06/03 Tue
        • Iraq said they didn't have any weapons, and the inspectors didn't find any. Does that make them useless? Only if the weapons are there, hidden. Now the coalition forces are there, but they haven't found any either. So are they equally useless? Maybe they will find some, but time is running out. Don't expect the "scum" nations to keep quiet when the so-called Iraqi WMD accusation turn out to be the Lie of the Century. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:59:57 05/06/03 Tue
          • Chris, how can you possibly claim "... but time is running out ... " (for finding WMDs)? It has been 12 years. Then several months more after resolution 1441. With the war people were screaming that it is taking too long and we are getting bogged down, things are not going well, after only ONE WEEK!!!! The US and coalition forces took Iraq in three weeks and people were impatient and crying "Quagmire" after only a week! What impatience!

            Patience, Chris! I know you want the US to fail but be patient! (NT) -- William, 16:21:41 05/06/03 Tue

            • I'm prepared to wait until the end of the year. I don't wat the US to fail, it will be a matter of great personal shame if my country is shown to have misled the world. However the world will not wait forever, time is definitely running out. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:55:27 05/07/03 Wed
              • I disagree. The world WILL wait forever. What will they do -- pass a resolution?! They are already on record as not enforcing anything. By "the world" you refer to the UN, I assume. Look how long they waited for Saddam to comply with so many resolutions that they all voted for. They will whine and complain to be sure, but only to voice anti-US sentiments. Kick them ALL out of NY. Put the real estate to better use. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (anti-UN for decades. Waiting for them to show some integrity.), 18:44:28 05/08/03 Thu
          • So this compartmentalized vehicle just found in northern Iraq was for ice cream? Inspectors had 6 months. The Unfits wanted to give them 6 MORE months. You are bellyaching because the U.S. military (whose job is NOT to search for WMD's) has not found them in 6 weeks? Your statements are ludicrous. Nothing personal. (NT) -- JL, 20:25:13 05/06/03 Tue
            • If it's not the job of the Coalition military to look for WMD's, given that they are the sole power in that country, then I am curious whom you expect to do it. Presumably not the UN. Your statements are baffling. Nothing personal. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:05:24 05/07/03 Wed
              • We have sent/are sending our own teams in to do the dirty work. Some of them are military, but others are experts in their particular fields. And Guess What??? Some of them are even Iraqis and Iraqi ex-pats. It is the 'job' of our miltary to protect them and assist them if possible, not to BE them. (NT) -- JL, 19:24:02 05/08/03 Thu
            • So if this vehicle had been used to manufacture weapons, wouldn't you expect these weapons to have been issued to some of the Iraqi forces, and even used on occasion, and therefore discovered as their positions were overrun? What more urgent need would there be than to use them against a Western invasion? And so if none were found, isn't there just the smallest possibility that they don't actually exist? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:24:33 05/08/03 Thu
              • ...and please don't tell me it was because of the threat of retaliation. That would only explain why they were not used, but not why they were not issued to units and stockpiled. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 05:26:53 05/08/03 Thu
                • My guess would be that they were so busy hiding them, focussing on the UN inspectors, there was no time to deploy and train their troops in the use. Given where we found other items, in schools, drums weighted down in the Euphates and underground, I expect some nasty stuff to be uncovered. The accessories that have been found seem to indicate the existence. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I predict it will take about 6 months to uncover some hidden WNDs), 09:31:07 05/09/03 Fri
      • The uselessness of the Unfit Nothings has been exercised countless times. The 'Security Council' (sic) position on our action in Iraq was but a qualifier. Think not that this started with their laming post 1441. (NT) -- JL, 20:14:41 05/06/03 Tue

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• Here is another example of what kind of person gets to work for a liberal, Left wing news paper. Re: Robert Scheer, communist sympathizer and rabble rouser. -- William, 05:57:12 05/06/03 Tue (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)
  
  
  Los Angeles Times Columnist Robert Scheer's Trip to North Korea (1970)
  By The Black Panther newspaper
  FrontPageMagazine.com | May 6, 2003
  
  From The Black Panther (the official party paper), August 8, 1970:
  
  A delegation of Americans headed by Eldridge Cleaver arrived in Pyongyang, North Korea, on July 14, 1970. They were in North Korea at the invitation of the 'Committee for the Peaceful Unification of the Fatherland.'
  
  Organizations represented in the American delegation included "the Black Panther Party, the San Francisco Red Guard, Women?s Liberation, the Peace and Freedom Party, Newsreel, and the Movement for a Democratic Military. The purpose of this U.S. people?s delegation is to express solidarity with the struggles of the Korean people and to bring back to Babylon information about their communist society and their fight against U.S. imperialism."
  
  A message from the American delegates included the following statement:
  
  "The Pentagon has a global strategy for dealing with liberation struggles whether they be inside or outside the U.S. This strategy will increasingly apply to any anti imperialist movement.
  
  Since the peoples of the world have a common enemy, we must begin to think of revolution as an international struggle against U.S. imperialism. Our struggle in the U.S. is a genuine part of the total revolutionary assault on this enemy. Understanding the Korean people?s struggle, and communicating this to the American movement is a crucial step in developing this internationalist perspective."
  
  The message was signed: Patricia Sumi, Jan Austin, Ann Froines, Gina Blumenfeld, Eldridge Cleaver, Robert Scheer, Randy Rappaport, Alex Hing, Elaine Brown, Andy Truskier, Janet Kranzberg,
  
  Excerpted from The Black Panther newspaper, August 8, 1970:19, quoted in The Black Panther Leaders Speak: Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seale, Eldridge Cleaver and Company Speak Out Through the Black Panther Party's Official Newspaper, edited by G. Louis Heath, Scarecrow Press, 1976.
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • maybe he's changed in 30-odd years. People do. Jack Straw was a card-carrying Trotskyite in his student days. Bush Jnr. wasn't prepared to go and fight in Vietnam. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:38:31 05/06/03 Tue
    • Robert Scheer does not seem to have changed. I read his commentaries. They are rife with anti-US rhetoric and interpretations of things in an anti-US fashion. He still blames all the world's woes on the US, yet, like so many others who make a decent living and have roots here, he won't go live in Cuba, Russia, China, Iran, or anywhere else which is supposed to be so much better than the mean and nasty United States of America. That is the whole point of why I posted the article about Scheer's sentiments from the 1970s. They were anti-US then and he still has them. (NT) -- William, 16:04:23 05/06/03 Tue
  • Robert Scheer is every bit the anti-American jerk-off he has always been. Sorry, SG and Surf. (NT) -- JL, 20:28:02 05/06/03 Tue
    • He's so Scheer, you can see right through him. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (sorry, I cannot resist a pun), 18:37:11 05/08/03 Thu
      • Yuk, yuk yuk! ; ) (NT) -- JL, 18:57:14 05/08/03 Thu

  ---

• Pretty scarey stuff! While the admonition to support the ACLU is as misguided as supporting the U.N. one has to ask seriously about the erosion of liberties and 4th amendment rights. Moral: Stay out of ethnic restaurants unless you want more excitement than the meal you bargained for. [Just kidding.] The Bush administration needs to be addressed on these REAL outrages, not the crap the Democrats come up with. -- SurveyGuy, 22:07:25 05/02/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15770
  Patriot Raid
  By Jason Halperin, AlterNet April 29, 2003
  
  A month ago I experienced a very small taste of what hundreds of South Asian immigrants and U.S. citizens of South Asian descent have gone through since 9/11, and what thousands of others have come to fear. I was held, against my will and without warrant or cause, under the USA PATRIOT Act. While I understand the need for some measure of security and precaution in times such as these, the manner in which this detention and interrogation took place raises serious questions about police tactics and the safeguarding of civil liberties in times of war.
  
  That night, March 20th, my roommate Asher and I were on our way to see the Broadway show "Rent." We had an hour to spare before curtain time so we stopped into an Indian restaurant just off of Times Square in the heart of midtown. I have omitted the name of the restaurant so as not to subject the owners to any further harassment or humiliation.
  
  We helped ourselves to the buffet and then sat down to begin eating our dinner. I was just about to tell Asher how I'd eaten there before and how delicious the vegetable curry was, but I never got a chance. All of a sudden, there was a terrible commotion and five NYPD in bulletproof vests stormed down the stairs. They had their guns drawn and were pointing them indiscriminately at the restaurant staff and at us.
  
  "Go to the back, go to the back of the restaurant," they yelled.
  
  I hesitated, lost in my own panic.
  
  "Did you not hear me, go to the back and sit down," they demanded.
  
  I complied and looked around at the other patrons. There were eight men including the waiter, all of South Asian descent and ranging in age from late-teens to senior citizen. One of the policemen pointed his gun point-blank in the face of the waiter and shouted: "Is there anyone else in the restaurant?" The waiter, terrified, gestured to the kitchen.
  
  The police placed their fingers on the triggers of their guns and kicked open the kitchen doors. Shouts emanated from the kitchen and a few seconds later five Hispanic men were made to crawl out on their hands and knees, guns pointed at them.
  
  After patting us all down, the five officers seated us at two tables. As they continued to kick open doors to closets and bathrooms with their fingers glued to their triggers, no less than ten officers in suits emerged from the stairwell. Most of them sat in the back of the restaurant typing on their laptop computers. Two of them walked over to our table and identified themselves as officers of the INS and Homeland Security Department.
  
  I explained that we were just eating dinner and asked why we were being held. We were told by the INS agent that we would be released once they had confirmation that we had no outstanding warrants and our immigration status was OK'd.
  
  In pre-9/11 America, the legality of this would have been questionable. After all, the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized."
  
  "You have no right to hold us," Asher insisted.
  
  "Yes, we have every right," responded one of the agents. "You are being held under the Patriot Act following suspicion under an internal Homeland Security investigation."
  
  The USA PATRIOT Act was passed into law on October 26, 2001 in order to facilitate the post 9/11 crackdown on terrorism (the name is actually an acronym: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act.") Like most Americans, I did not recognize the extent to which this bill foregoes our civil liberties. Among the unprecedented rights it grants to the federal government are the right to wiretap without warrant, and the right to detain without warrant. As I quickly discovered, the right to an attorney has been seemingly fudged as well.
  
  When I asked to speak to a lawyer, the INS official informed me that I do have the right to a lawyer but I would have to be brought down to the station and await security clearance before being granted one. When I asked how long that would take, he replied with a coy smile: "Maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe a month."
  
  We insisted that we had every right to leave and were going to do so. One of the policemen walked over with his hand on his gun and taunted: "Go ahead and leave, just go ahead."
  
  We remained seated. Our IDs were taken, and brought to the officers with laptops. I was questioned over the fact that my license was out of state, and asked if I had "something to hide." The police continued to hassle the kitchen workers, demanding licenses and dates of birth. One of the kitchen workers was shaking hysterically and kept providing the day's date – March 20, 2003, over and over.
  
  As I continued to press for legal counsel, a female officer who had been busy typing on her laptop in the front of the restaurant, walked over and put her finger in my face. "We are at war, we are at war and this is for your safety," she exclaimed. As she walked away from the table, she continued to repeat it to herself? "We are at war, we are at war. How can they not understand this."
  
  I most certainly understand that we are at war. I also understand that the freedoms afforded to all of us in the Constitution were meant specifically for times like these. Our freedoms were carved out during times of strife by people who were facing brutal injustices, and were intended specifically so that this nation would behave differently in such times. If our freedoms crumble exactly when they are needed most, then they were really never freedoms at all.
  
  After an hour and a half the INS agent walked back over and handed Asher and me our licenses. A policeman took us by the arm and escorted us out of the building. Before stepping out to the street, the INS agent apologized. He explained, in a low voice, that they did not think the two of us were in the restaurant. Several of the other patrons, though of South Asian descent, were in fact U.S. citizens. There were four taxi drivers, two students, one newspaper salesman – unwitting customers, just like Asher and me. I doubt, though, they received any apologies from the INS or the Department of Homeland Security.
  
  Nor have the over 600 people of South Asian descent currently being held without charge by the Federal government. Apparently, this type of treatment is acceptable. One of the taxi drivers, a U.S. citizen, spoke to me during the interrogation. "Please stop talking to them," he urged. "I have been through this before. Please do whatever they say. Please for our sake."
  
  Three days later I phoned the restaurant to discover what happened. The owner was nervous and embarrassed and obviously did not want to talk about it. But I managed to ascertain that the whole thing had been one giant mistake. A mistake. Loaded guns pointed in faces, people made to crawl on their hands and knees, police officers clearly exacerbating a tense situation by kicking in doors, taunting, keeping their fingers on the trigger even after the situation was under control. A mistake. And, according to the ACLU a perfectly legal one, thanks to the Patriot Act.
  
  The Patriot Act is just the first phase of the erosion of the Fourth Amendment. From the Justice Department has emerged a draft of the Domestic Securities Enhancement Act, also known as Patriot II. Among other things, this act would allow the Justice Department to detain anyone, anytime, secretly and indefinitely. It would also make it a crime to reveal the identity or even existence of such a detainee.
  
  Every American citizen, whether they support the current war or not, should be alarmed by the speed and facility with which these changes to our fundamental rights are taking place. And all of those who thought that these laws would never affect them, who thought that the Patriot Act only applied to the guilty, should heed this story as a wake-up call. Please learn from my experience. We are all vulnerable so speak out and organize, our Fourth Amendment rights depend upon it.
  
  Jason Halperin lives in New York City and works at Doctors Without Borders/Medicins San Frontieres. If you are moved by this account, he asks that you consider donating to your local ACLU chapter.
  

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• Dumber and dumber and dumber . . . No wonder no one knows how to punctuate or put together a coherent thought! What next -- "tribal Americans?" Will that then include the Jewish people? -- SurveyGuy, 15:06:29 04/30/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/30/132019
  Wednesday, April 30, 2003
  Educrats Ban Founding Fathers, Mount Rushmore, Hot Dogs, Yachts, Snowmen
  
  If you wonder why children in America's failed government school monopolies aren't learning, perhaps it's because P.C.-crazed educrats are too busy acting as left-wing thought police.
  
  Out in La-La Land, educrats are rewriting history to appease those who make a career of taking offense at reality. California's textbooks are being changed as follows, according to Fox News Channel:
  
  • Even though all the signers of Constitution were specimens of those dreaded white males, "Founding Fathers" is a no-no, to be replaced by "The Framers."
  
  • Pictures of naughty foods such as hot dogs, soft drinks, butter (even though that's better for you than margarine) and cake are banned.
  
  • The euphemism "senior citizen," once politically correct, is now politically incorrect. The new P.C. term: "older person." Older than whom? Who knows?
  
  • Mount Rushmore can't be mentioned because "it appears to offend" some American Indians. ("American Indians," of course, was long ago replaced by the silly term "native Americans," even though anyone born in the U.S. is a native American.)
  
  • American Indians can't be depicted with long braids, in rural settings or on reservations, even though many American Indians have long braids and live in rural settings or on reservations.
  
  • Snowmen aren't allowed. Snowpersons are. Hey, that could be part of sex ed.
  
  • Yachts can't be mentioned. Too elitist.
  
  • "Jungle" is banned; "rain forest" is the P.C. euphemism. (Are all references to "swamp" changed to "wetlands"?)
  
  • "I think our textbooks should to our greatest capacity be free of any type of stereotyping," Sue Stickel, who is "deputy superintendent for curriculum and instruction" for the so-called California Department of Education, told Fox News. "We need to make sure that all ethnicities are represented. We need to make sure that both males and females are represented. We need to make sure that our materials cover the full gamut."
  
  Others, however, know what is going on.
  
  "It's outright censorship," said author Diane Ravitch, who has written extensively on this school issue. "It dumbs down our textbooks, makes them bland, far less interesting than anything children might see in the movies - even in G-rated movies or TV.
  
  "The problems that have happened in education is that the textbook publishers and the test developers have become so sensitive to any controversy that whenever they receive a complaint it is very likely that they will remove the source of the complaint," explained Ravitch.
  
  And what about the complaints of those who are offended by P.C. lunacy?
  

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  • If you want to scare the crap out of your local schools do what I do ... show up at the parent / teacher meetings, the PTA meetings, talk to them, ask questions, monitor the school board and don't forget to wear a shirt with a flag on it. Sniff around the textbooks, point out that programs that start in California almost always fail. Stick with your principles and stand your ground ... they respond to that. (NT) -- Surf, 18:17:51 04/30/03 Wed
  • My "favorite" examples of PC nonsense are the guide books that lure innocent European tourists into South Central LA because they describe it as "colorful and vibrant.". Like the one I used for Boston, that said that Chinatown subway station was "near the Chinatown district", but didn't tell me that I would emerge at ground level into something like downtown Kinshasa. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 11:02:40 05/01/03 Thu
    • That's funny. I wonder of anyone would ever take a travel guide, follow it and then write a true guide with some humor. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:50:28 05/02/03 Fri
  • Thankfully the "Lonely Planet" series is politically incorrect. When describing Italian cities they will tell you precisely where the Gypsy pickpockets operate, and how they use groups of their children as decoys. Meanwhile in the UK, the press refers to Gypsies as "Travellers" which is completely meaningless and misleading. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 11:07:51 05/01/03 Thu

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• i understand where you are coming from -- marc, 12:53:13 05/02/03 Fri (ip68-97-119-194.ok.ok.cox.net/68.97.119.194)
  i understand the what you wrote. i do believe others feel somewhat skeptical to your piece. i do believe we only attack smaller weaker countries, but we are a very powerful country with little or no equals. there is a lot of hypocricy going around and trying to inform others about it does no good. some people only want to see the right side, the side that does no harm, with duties solely tied to justice, equally, and freedom. any hint of wrong doing is ignored, but, if it does occur, then it happens(the wrong doings) because and they really don't care.
  

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  Replies:

  • Who is the "you" that you are responding to? What are you responding to? To respopnd to a message click the reply link at the bottom of that message. Do not start a new thread to respond. No one has any idea to what you are referring. If you will repost in the proper place, in context,, your post may be understood rather than just be disassociated "noise." (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:47:59 05/02/03 Fri

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• wow you are ignorant -- anti-liberal, 00:06:27 04/30/03 Wed (adsl-67-66-176-230.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net/67.66.176.230)
  Wow. You liberals are not very smart.I am reluctant to be a little mean but you are just downright ignorant .Liberals are evil. They are Anti-American and Anti-Freedom. If they had their way, we would all be dead or be worshipping Allah.I am extremely tired of your relentless attacks against our qualified president and your bias against white males. I have nothing against minorities. I have seen some very smart Mexicans and Blacks and others and would like to see more conservative ones.But do not wrongly accuse me of racism just because you need something to complain about. I love the U.S.A. and am unhappy how you decay it everyday.I am only 14 years old but I can see how wrong you illiberals are. That's all.
  

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  Replies:

  • Hello anti-liberal, can I just clarify one point. Allah is the arabic word for for God. Therefore anyone who worships one God is worshipping Allah. Muslim services are conducted in arabic and so they praise Allah, but arab Christians (e.g. Egyptian Coptics) also refer to Allah in their services. It's just the same as Greeks worshipping Theos, Roman Catholics (formerly) and Deus, Russians and Boq, Germans and Gott, French and Dieu, Spaniards and Dios etc. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, though obviously in very different ways. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:00:54 04/30/03 Wed
  • It is difficult to tell whom you are addressing. That is why we use specific news items, the more biased, the better, in order to attempt to focus discussion. While it is good to see some passion, try to either agree or disagree with posts or post more than a rant. We have mostly conservatives, a few liberals and some libertarians posting here. Try to focus your perspectives on specific items if you can with either facts or opinion. Gott Sei dank that you have this forum. Now use it to become informed as well. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:41:58 04/30/03 Wed
  • Thanks for your post -- after scrolling down through the PC (which I now think stands for Political Crap) I really enjoyed reading the words of a 14-year-old who had decided to think for him/herself and tell it like it is! Welcome to our little board and have some fun here! (NT) -- Spock, 13:03:23 05/01/03 Thu

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• The Wish -- a mythical tale in cartoon form -- SurveyGuy, 15:08:55 04/30/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  
  
  

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• Oh, those U.N. jokesters!! Is it time to leave yet? -- SurveyGuy, 20:38:22 04/29/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/29/153038.shtml
  U.S. Denounces Cuba's Re-election to U.N. 'Human Rights' Commission
  NewsMax.com Wires and NewsMax.com Tuesday, April 29, 2003
  
  WASHINGTON – The White House deplored Cuba's re-election today to the U.N. Human Rights Commission and likened it to placing the security of a bank in the hands of a mobster.
  The appointment to the 53-member body by the United Nations Social and Economic Committee came on the heels of Havana sending more than 70 journalists, librarians and opposition leaders to prison.
  
  "This is a setback for the cause of human rights," spokesman Ari Fleischer said. "Cuba does not deserve a seat on the Human Rights Commission. Cuba deserves to be investigated by the Human Rights Commission.
  
  "We deplore the action. We will speak out against the action," he said.
  
  The commission, chaired this year by prominent rights abuser Libya, includes the United States in its roster of members. The United States, however, had been voted off the commission the previous year.
  
  The United States is a frequent critic of the abuses under Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.
  
  "The Human Rights Commission undermines its own credibility at the United Nations when they allow Cuba to get re-elected," Fleischer said. "The Human Rights Commission not only hurts the people of Cuba, but they hurt the very cause on which nations should sign up to serve on the Human Rights Commission."
  
  Fleischer said that Cuba had earlier refused to let the commission's investigators enter the island police state. Its retention of its seat in the U.N. body "raises troubling issues," he noted.
  
  U.S. relations with the United Nations have been under strain in recent months over the globalist body's refusal to enforce its resolutions and back military action against Iraq.
  
  Still 'No Change' on U.S. Position Toward U.N.!
  
  Fleischer said though the action by the Social and Economic Commission was deplorable, it would not affect the overall U.S. position in regard to the United Nations.
  
  "There is no change in our overall position toward the United Nations," he said in answer to a reporter's question. "The United Nations continues to pursue other areas that do good around the world."
  
  Although the U.N. once again gets a pass, U.S. officials are warning Havana that Washington will increase its efforts to end dictatorship, the Washington Times reported today.
  
  The United States will use "new creativity and vigor to hasten the inevitable democratic transition on the island," said Roger Noriega, President Bush's choice for assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs.
  
  Secretary of State Colin Powell said: "Castro continued to do nothing but oppress, suppress his people, suppress opinion. And we're reviewing all of our policies."
  
  Bush's special envoy Otto Reich said, "No one knows how many people rot in Castro's dungeons." He accused the dictator of mismanaging his economy to the point that Cuba was the "only country that has experienced a decline in caloric intake in the last 40 years."
  
  Castro: U.S. Wants to Invade
  
  Castro claims his abuses are America's fault. He said Friday on state-run Cuban TV that three men who tried to hijack a ferry April 2 to get to Florida were executed to prevent a wave of hijackings that could give Washington a pretext to invade.
  
  The United States and Cuban exiles in Florida have a "warped plot" to create a crisis with Havana that could lead to military action against the island, he said.
  
  "We had to pull the evil out by the roots," Castro said in his nearly four-hour rant Friday.
  
  Copyright 2003 by United Press International.
  

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• submitted for your consideration.... -- H_Bergeron, 01:50:23 04/29/03 Tue (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
  an interesting article from Jerry Pournelle

  
  Governing Iraq

  
  It's the standard cliche,
  
  "we won the war, now comes the hard part." 
  
  So. What do we do now?
  How can we build democracy in Iraq?
  
  Is there a chance for success?

  
  Middle Class Rule 

  
  Aristotle defines democracy as rule by the middle class,
  the middle class being those who possess the goods of fortune in moderation.
  There have been a lot of other definitions of democracy, but that one endures:
  it has been a characteristic of every working democracy that lasted long enough to make the history books.
  The implications are worth examining.

  
  First, note that nothing has been said about religion, birth, military ability,
  family connections, or anything else but property.
  
  The ruling class is defined by an economic condition:
  and that condition is the possession of property, not excessive amounts of property but not zero either. 

  
  Marx said that history would end only when the proletariat -- those who had no property --
  became rulers and everything was held in common or owned by the state.
  He made no distinction between those conditions.

  The end result of Marxism has been rule by the nomenklatura, Djilas's "New Class",
  everywhere it has been tried, and there is no reason to suppose it won't work that way every time.
  When the state is the sole employer, dissent means starvation,
  and power comes only from climbing the political ladder.

  
  Most states that have tried democracy by enfranchising the proletariat
  have ended with "one man, one vote, once,"
  after which a strong man takes charge and ends the electoral process.
  We then have rule by one party, such as the Baath,
  or maybe rule by the bogeymen as they demonstrated in Haiti.

  Incidentally, it may not be true that Haiti was as well off under Papa Doc,
  Baby Doc, and the Tonton Macout as it is under the US-imposed thugs,
  but I haven't seen any evidence contradicting that proposition.

  Our nation-building experiments in this hemisphere don't augur well for what's going to happen in the Middle East.
  

  The task, then, is to empower middle class in Iraq. Can this be done?

  
  

  Well, on the plus side, Iraq has a middle class.
  There are people there who own property, and many are well educated.
  Most are literate. They're not all proletarians and thugs.

  On the other hand, Iraq has never had a democracy,
  and the middle class in Iraq has never had any power.
  Ever.

  
  Empowering people who have never had any experience of governing is a
  tricky proposition at best.

  
  

  Can You Afford To Lose?

  
  

  The central question in a democracy is, can you afford to lose the election?
  If you try and fail, is loss total?
  Will you be jailed, your property confiscated, your family jailed or killed?

  If the consequences of
  loss are enormous, then you don't let the ballot box
  be the final decision. Nor should you.

  
  

  The first thing we must do is assure the losers they can afford to lose, and that we will be there to protect them.

  
  read the rest of the article here
  

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  • Jerry Pournelle used to write for Byte Magazine (an ancient computer periodical), if it is the same guy. Now he's pontificating on politics. Interesting. I guess we should all try to be flexible. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:14:37 04/29/03 Tue

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• This may explain a lot . . . -- SurveyGuy, 18:37:38 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  World Press Sees Different War
  Christopher Ruddy
  Thursday, April 17, 2003
  
  With America triumphant, we should not become America naïve.
  As we have watched continuous coverage of our liberation of Saddam’s Iraq, we need to pinch ourselves and remember that much of the world, especially the Arab world, does not view this war as we do.
  
  In fact, I can only believe that press reports have fanned anti-American sentiment.
  
  Let’s start with the European press.
  
  While Americans see images of Iraqis cheering on American and Coalition troops, Europeans see a story of anger and defiance.
  
  Just this week, Agence France-Presse (AFP) published a story claiming U.S. Marines had massacred a dozen innocent Iraqis.
  
  AFP continued:
  
  “Many Iraqis fear US plans for the future of Iraq and popular anger has been mounting over the widespread anarchy and chaos since Saddam was toppled last Wednesday. That anger was visible in Nasiriyah as the crowd marched through the street chanting ‘Yes to freedom ... Yes to Islam ... No to America, No to Saddam.’ Such anger was also visible in the northern city of Mosul, when a firefight broke out as the newly appointed governor was making a speech which listeners deemed was too pro-US, witnesses said.”
  
  In Coalition partner Britain, Robert Fisk of the Independent has been reporting Iraq as a cauldron of American-made disaster.
  
  Though an Arabist, Fisk is a highly respected journalist.
  
  Earlier this week, he fired off a report detailing how every major Iraqi government ministry in Baghdad was being looted and trashed without any American or British protection – except two. The two offices Fisk said had massive U.S. military protection were the Interior Department’s offices, home of the Secret Police, and the Ministry of Oil. Of course, such stories will be cited as anecdotal evidence that we invaded for oil.
  
  In Fisk’s most recent report, he railed against the destruction of Iraq’s treasured libraries.
  
  Fisk wrote: “So yesterday was the burning of books. First came the looters, then the arsonists. It was the final chapter in the sacking of Baghdad.”
  
  According to Fisk, “The National Library and Archives – a priceless treasure of Ottoman historical documents, including the old royal archives of Iraq – were turned to ashes in 3,000 degrees of heat. Then the library of Korans at the Ministry of Religious Endowment was set ablaze.”
  
  He then added ominously, “And the Americans did nothing.”
  
  Such reports are also now widespread in the very anti-American Arab press.
  
  UPI editor Arnaud de Borchgrave says that “the looting disaster at Baghdad's National Museum of Iraq – and the wanton destruction of 5,000 years of history – is already being described as proof the Bush administration is on a campaign to eradicate all vestiges of Islam and before Islam the history of the cradle of civilization.”
  
  The Arab press is full of exaggeration, but still widely believed.
  
  Here’s another report given credence from online ArabNews.com: “... Baghdad and a number of other Iraqi cities should be shelled with chemical bombs. Yes, that is the truth; Baghdad has been battered with chemical bombs and bombs carrying highly combustible depleted uranium. ... Aside from these munitions, advanced cluster bombs carrying ethylene gas have also been used. They are called MOABs, or massive ordnance airburst bombs, and they are essentially chemical bombs.
  
  And if the “suffering” of the Iraqi people is not enough, news channel Al-Jazeera says the Iraq war has wounded the Arab world’s economy.
  
  Citing a U.N. meeting in Beirut, the Arab TV service said, “The U.S.-led war on Iraq could cost as much as $1 trillion in lost production in Arab countries. ...”
  
  Despite America’s best intentions, our many adversaries, both in Europe and the Arab world, want to win the war against America in the hearts and minds of the world.
  
  Because it is a high-tech superpower, there was never any doubt of America’s victory. But we have seen smashing American victories turned to mush. The Tet offensive in Vietnam was a major American victory. Later, it became the beginning of the end of America’s disastrous involvement in Vietnam.
  
  The ground war has been won, but the propaganda war has just begun.
  

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  Replies:

  • This says it all: "He (Fisk) then added ominously, "And the Americans did nothing." That is the whole story, isn't it? It is all about America. The Iraqis were being thugs and destructive but it was the Americans who are to be blamed. Right! America is always the one to blame! Notice that it was Iraqis who were filmed looting and pilaging, burning and trashing. Of course we must not say "The Iraqis were trashing their own country; trashing their own libraries; trashing their own hospitals; trashing their own museums, etc." Don't say that. Blame the US instead. (NT) -- William, 19:40:31 04/20/03 Sun
    • Actually many of the museum looters seem to be from elsewhere, caught trying to cross Syrian border. Some of the locals have returned what they took. (Why isnl't the U.S. watching the road to Damascus . . . or are they? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:01:34 04/20/03 Sun
      • SurveyGuy, are the looters from State College, Detroit, Cincinati, East LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago? I heard some were from the Rodney King rioters as well as the celebrants from the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers championship team celebrants and other sports team celebrants. Looting is the new way to celebrate victory. (NT) -- William, 12:28:44 04/22/03 Tue
    • Now the Americans are doing something about looters - http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2003/04/25/367175.html - stripping them naked and writing "Ali Baba - thief" on their chest. This is how we demonstrate the superiority of our civilisation and society. And then we wonder why they want us out. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:12:09 04/27/03 Sun
      • ***Sorry, I cannot find a translator for that page. The Dutch translator didnlt work. Is it Finnish or Norwegian? In either case, please provide a way to translate to English or nothing can be learned. I tried several translators but do not have time to make this a project. (NT) -- SG, 15:30:24 04/28/03 Mon
      • P.S. The pictures look mighty suspicious. The chest writing is in Arabic. Not very many of our soldiers can speak or wirte Arabic. To what end? Seems totally alien. More propaganda? This makes no sense. Especially since the pictures do not seem to show the soldiers confining anyone. (NT) -- SG, 15:37:34 04/28/03 Mon
  • Got to be politically correct, you know. It is fashionable to blame the US for everything. Don't blame the real cuplrits, in this case, the rabid masses of Iraqis with no respect and no self control!

    Hey, Fisk, and all you other Arab and European anti-American liars, instigators, excuse makers, and placaters, wake up! Stop covering for the thugs. The US is not to blame for Iraqis and other Arab idiots! Blame them for their own lack of self control and for their rabid behavior. In the mean time, kiss my ass you idiots! (NT) -- William, 19:43:02 04/20/03 Sun

    • Note that Fisk is described as "highly respected" and yet he is but a propagandist, not much different from the CNN crowd. I guess it takes very little to be respected these days. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:03:52 04/20/03 Sun
      • Well put, SurveyGuy. "respected" my left foot! Propagandist IS more like it! I don't understand what motivates these propagandists. Do you? If there were no more Great Britain and no more US, there would be a lot less "free speech" and a lot less "freedom". There would be more oppression and abuse and people would wish and pray that the US and Great Britain were still around to defend freedom and oppose fascism, Islamofascism, communism, socialism, etc. It won't be appreciated until it is gone. (NT) -- William, 20:17:57 04/20/03 Sun
        • Just to put you right, William. Tony Blair regards himself as a Socialist. To qoute from the Labour Party website "‘The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few. Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe. And where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.’ (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:39:50 04/21/03 Mon
        • In contrast, Chirac occupies a similar part of the political spectrum to Bush. To quote Dick Morris of "The Hill", "Chirac is a man of the right. Elected by a coalition of Gaullists and neo-Gaullists, he has always cast himself as the adversary of socialism and the apostle of free markets". It's a complicated world when socialists support a war on Iraq and conservatives oppose it! (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:32:55 04/21/03 Mon
          • In Europe, liberal and conservative seem to mean the opposite of what they do here. "Socialism" has been so distorted that its meaning is no longer understood by those who speak or hear the term. In fact, socialism is closer to what is now called "capitalism." Strange indeed. What we call capitalism has been getting closer to "state capitalism" year by year. But what's in a name? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:15:05 04/21/03 Mon
    • If a mob were looting downtown Philly, then we would obviously blame the mob, but we would also blame the cops if they stood by and did nothing. Same situation in Iraq, our government has changed the regime and therefore has to accept the regime's responsibility for maintaining law and order. We can't pick and choose what we will be responsible for, or pretend we have no responsibility. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:32:32 04/21/03 Mon
    • If our forces don't maintain law and order, then who will - Saddam Hussein's? And if we are seen to fail in this responsibility, then of course all the hostile press will make the most of the opportunity to say that we replaced a repressive regime with total chaos and anarchy - we'll have given them a perfect opportunity. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:34:26 04/21/03 Mon
      • If the military had shot looters, it would have been reported as shooting "innocent" civilians. The military are doing a lot more. Notice, no people starving. There are not 1000s of fleeing refugees (predicted by the press). I find this handwringing disingenuous. If there were a war going on in Philadelphia and people were looting, then they'd be looting. I guess the good citizens of Iraq didn't care either. I donot see them running to protect their museums. Objects are worthless to people who are dead. I would rather have the military protect life. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (It seems the very wealthy are often more concerned about art than people.), 09:09:51 04/21/03 Mon

  ---

• So much for integrity of reporters in the U.K. and Arab countries, and quite a few here, no doubt. More details should emerge on this, I would hope . . . -- SurveyGuy, 21:39:51 04/27/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/27/142203
  Sunday April 27, 2003; 2:18 p.m. EDT
  Chalabi: American Moles Recruited by Saddam
  
  The man backed by many in the Bush administration to head Baghdad's postwar government said Sunday that documents uncovered over the weekend show that Saddam Hussein tried to recruit U.S. citizens to undermine the Bush adminsitration's war effort in Iraq.
  
  "We have captured a great many files of Saddam's services and there is astounding information about the extent of their networks and their efforts to recruit foreign nationals - including Americans - to work in the Mukabahrat [Iraqi intelligence service]," said Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress.
  
  "I think that this is something that must be pursued," Chalabi told "Fox News Sunday." "The files contain a great deal of information about how [Iraqi intelligence] compromised people, how they bought agents and how they influenced foreign leaders."
  
  While Chalabi declined to name names, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol suggested a few minutes later that U.S. journalists as well as elected officials were among those targeted by Saddam's Mukabahrat recruiters.
  
  Discussing the case of George Galloway, the antiwar British politician who allegedly took over a million dollars from Baghdad, Kristol said that Galloway was "the tip of the iceberg."
  
  "There were reporters - including many Arab reporters - who were on Saddam's payroll," he told "Fox News Sunday's" Tony Snow.
  
  The Weekly Standard editor singled out the Al Jazeera television network, which was sympathetic to both Saddam Hussein and 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden.
  
  "Saddam showered gifts [on reporters]... Mercedes limousines would show up at the homes of various journalists in Jordan, Egypt, etc.," Kristol claimed.
  
  He added that the recipients of Baghdad's largesse may also have included "other Western politicians, perhaps, [who] were on the take."
  

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  Replies:

  • Gee Al Jeezera was being paid by Saddam, what next the sun rises in the east? I'm shocked. [/sarcasm] (NT) -- Surf, 09:45:08 04/28/03 Mon

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• Humor is the result of shock and disappointment, according to the Al-Majallah newspaper . . . read on . . . [I didn't get the one about underground Baghdad. Maybe it's a cultural idiom.] -- SurveyGuy, 20:29:53 04/27/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32270
  WND.COMEDY
  Arabs go wild for Saddam jokes
  Bush, Blair, Putin all part of Internet humor in Egypt
  Posted: April 27, 2003 6:12 p.m. Eastern © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  "Saddam, why did you disappear?"
  
  Response: "I decided to destabilize the enemy by splitting up his search parties."
  
  Saddam Hussein may be out of power in Iraq, but his legacy is still alive among Internet jokes being passed around by Arabs in Egypt.
  
  According to the Al-Majallah newspaper, the fall of Baghdad has given rise to humor, reflecting the shock and disappointment of people who thought Iraq would offer greater resistance.
  
  It reportedly began with a message asking people to check CNN for Saddam's resignation – on condition that he live in the White House. Then other messages featured a photo of the dictator with a caption reading "Seeking employment pending fall of regime."
  
  Al-Majallah says some of the jokes were in question and answer format:
  
  Saddam asks Bin Laden, what do I do when it's over? Bin Laden said: Hide in a cave, record some tapes and send them to Al-Jazeera.
  
  Saddam, how are you going to hang the Americans from the walls of Baghdad? Saddam says: I didn't mean the city, I meant underground Baghdad."
  
  The Iraqi information minister Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, better known as "Baghdad Bob," is even featured in some of the jokes.
  
  
  Have you heard the one about Saddam and Sahhaf on the banks of the Tigris? A man on the other side raises two fingers in a victory sign. "What happened?' asks Saddam. "Did we win the war?" "Don't be stupid,” Sahhaf says. "He means there’s just two of us left."
  Saddam isn't the sole target of the jokes. President Bush and other westerners are prominently featured, according to the report.
  
  
  Bush and Blair are giving a press conference. "Right," Bush says, "we're going to kill two million Iraqis and one construction worker."
  Question from the press: "Why do you want to kill a construction worker?" Bush leans over to Blair and whispers: "Told you nobody gives a damn about the two million Iraqis."
  
  
  Bush, Blair and Saddam gathered one day on the banks of the Euphrates River. Bush asked his secret service to dive in and bring him a crocodile. The agents say: "Sorry sir, no can do – we have wives and kids to look after."
  Blair tries, same result: "Sorry sir, no can do – we have wives and kids to look after."
  
  Then it's Saddam's turn, and all the agents jump in and bring him lots of crocodiles. Bush and Blair say: "How did you do that?" And Saddam says: "I have their wives and kids to look after."
  
  
  Saddam, Bush and Russia's Vladimir Putin are swimming in the Arabian Gulf when a giant whale appears.
  Bush says: "If you eat me, my warships will destroy you."
  
  Putin says: "If you eat me, my missiles will destroy you."
  
  They swim hard to the shore and escape by the skin of their teeth, only to find Saddam waiting on the beach.
  
  "How did you get here so fast?" they ask.
  
  Saddam says: "I told him my name, and he spit me out on the beach."
  

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• A few quotes about France, Iraq, US, etc. -- William, 17:37:40 03/09/03 Sun (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  
  "Power corrupts, but so does weakness. And absolute weakness corrupts absolutely. We are now living through the most critical watershed of the postwar period, with enormous moral and strategic issues at stake, and the only answer many Europeans offer is to constrain and contain American power. So by default they end up on the side of Saddam, in an intellectually corrupt position." Josef Joffe, editor Die Zeit
  
  "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" Jacques Chirac, President of France
  
  "As far as France is concerned, you're right." Rush Limbaugh
  
  "The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." David Letterman
  
  "If Europe were to apply as much pressure on Saddam Hussein as (it) does on the United States and Britain, I think we could prevent war." Elie Wiesel
  
  "Those unconvinced by the existing evidence [against Iraq] will be convinced by nothing less than their actual use against our military or civilians. To hell with those people." Bill Whittle
  

  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • And now, for 10 points, which of the above quotes comes from an elected leader of his country, and which come from pundits who never had to put their reputation to the vote? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 23:58:50 03/09/03 Sun
    • Here's a clue - who would you LEAST like to be in charge of YOUR deal? (NT) -- JL, 21:38:46 03/13/03 Thu
  • For a further 10 points, which of the above actually served their country's armed forces in a war, as opposed to following the heroic career of journalism. It's sad how the most macho-mouthing people never spent time in a foxhole. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:31:53 03/10/03 Mon
    • And for a bonus 5 points, which of these leaders actually has front-line experience of a war - Bush Jnr., Blair, Chirac? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:56:24 03/10/03 Mon
    • Chris, your statement "It's sad how the most macho-mouthing people never spent time in a foxhole," is claiming facts not in evidence. That is pure conjecture on your part. Many who do support military action against Iraq and other regimes in action to deal with Islamofascist militant terrorist threats did serve in the military. I served in full time active duty in the military. I do not think that it is only those who did serve who know when it is time for war or peace. Many who demonize the US never spent time in a fox hole and there are also some who did serve in uniform. (NT) -- William, 22:57:47 03/10/03 Mon
  • And now, for 50 points, how much of your complaints could justly be turned back on you? Since when is someone in this country required to be in the military or gov't in order to weigh in publicly on issues? It certainly doesn't stop Whinocrats. (NT) -- Spock, 11:03:31 03/14/03 Fri
  • War Without France -- Jack Atherton, 16:02:38 04/27/03 Sun

  ---

• Revealed: How the road to war was paved with lies Intelligence agencies accuse Bush and Blair of distorting and fabricating evidence in rush to war By Raymond Whitaker - http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=400805 - Just in case anyone thinks that Bush and Blair were honest about their motives in attacking Iraq. This may turn out to be the "Lie of the Century". -- Chris Henry, 05:07:45 04/27/03 Sun (NoHost/212.138.47.11)
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][ Edit | View ]
  
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  • I've already said it -- the first casualty ... etc. If anyone thinks that the motives of the countries against it were totally honest either needs a reality check or a hycolonic . (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:14:44 04/27/03 Sun

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• This bill has been introduced every year for the past 20 years, but this time it may even get discussed . . . but we'll see. If we don't declare the U.N. obsolete now, we never will. -- SurveyGuy, 08:47:12 04/25/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32232
  THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
  New push to 'get U.S. out of U.N.'
  Congressmen ask for House floor vote during time of disdain for global body
  by Cheryl K. Chumley © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  
  A concerted effort is underway to push Congress to consider the complete withdrawal of the United States from the United Nations.
  
  Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, began the drive April 16 with a letter to House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's office requesting that H.R. 1146, the American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2003, be brought to the floor for a vote rather than proceed through the normal committee process. The measure, introduced by Paul March 6, requests the United States cease further participation with the United Nations – including funding.
  
  [Snipped . . . click here to go to full article]
  

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  • Does everyone know who Dr. Ron Paul of Texas is? He ran for president as a Libertarian. (NT) -- SG, 08:48:32 04/25/03 Fri

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• Lies, regrets and anti-semitism ... yup, France again. I find it difficult to believe any boycotting has had any affect this quickly, but maybe the intensity just surprised everyone. -- SurveyGuy, 20:28:38 04/23/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2003/4/16/100520
  Wednesday, April 16, 2003
  
  French Finally Admit Boycott Hurts
  
  At least the French have stopped lying about one thing: They finally admit that the American boycott is hitting them where it counts.
  
  "The nation's principal business federation took the unusual step of publicly acknowledging the problem, conceding today that sales, recruitment and business contacts have been hurt," the Washington Post reported today.
  
  Previously the Frogs kept claiming that the boycott led by NewsMax.com and other organizations was not affecting them. Now they're so worried that their Federation of Wine Exporters has called a meeting Thursday to fret over what to do.
  
  Importers of French products say the boycott has had a "significant" effect, the Post revealed. Patricia Carreras, president of IC&A Inc., a home-decor business in New York that imports only French products, said sales had fallen a whopping 40 to 50 percent since February.
  
  "It's a very, very deep reaction. We would never have expected something so lasting. I think it has been accelerating even in the last four weeks," complained Carreras, who is French.
  
  "Certain French enterprises are suffering today from the differences that have arisen among states over the Iraqi question," said Movement of French Enterprises. "It is necessary to say to those who are unhappy with the positions of French diplomacy that they are free to criticize, but they must keep products and services of our enterprises outside their quarrel."
  
  Oh, we must? Sorry, we don't take orders from the yellow French. They're free to keep trying to foist their stinky cheeses and ripoff water and third-rate death-trap cars on the public, and we're free to refuse to buy those products and advise others to do likewise.
  
  Guillaume Touton, a French wine importer in New York, says that Americans' disgust with the Frogs cost him $500,000 in sales last month. "We want to send the message to the French side to please do something. Or, if you don't want to do anything, then please shut up," he said.
  
  Now that's something we call all agree on.
  
  France's Biggest Lie of the Month
  
  More Frog news: France is in such a dither over its disastrous support for genocidal maniac Saddam Hussein that Chirac's ruling party today issued one of its biggest whoppers ever: that Paris is Washington's "best ally" in the fight against terrorism!
  
  "We continue to think, as paradoxical as it might sound, that we are the best allies of the Americans, because we are preoccupied by the same reality: terrorism," claimed Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, spokesman for Chirac's Union for a Popular Movement.
  
  Considering how France has failed to curb the rise of radical Islam among its huge Arab population and has done little to stop rampant acts of violence against its Jewish population, that's a hot one.
  

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  • OOO-rah!!! Power to the People! : ) WHO SAYS we must keep their 'products and services' outside of the quarrel? Ain't that the point, Jacques? Econ 101 for Dummies: Don't piss of the hand that feeds ya. (NT) -- JL, 20:50:11 04/23/03 Wed
    • Speaking of hand-biting, how 'bout them Iraqi religious fanatics? And then there's the U.N. leadership .... when will we kick them out? Ron Paul introduced a bill to that effect in Congress. I don't expect anything to come of it, with all of the whining liberals, but hopefully it will lead to some mainstream discussion, even though we've been saying that for years. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 08:40:44 04/25/03 Fri

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• Speaking of liars and politicians . . . yet I have to applaud Chuck Schumer in this instance. I do remember how moved he was. Too bad he will probably revert. -- SurveyGuy, 17:45:33 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/20/143224
  Sunday, April 20, 2003 2:30 p.m. EDT
  Steven Brill: Hillary Fabricated 9/11 Records
  
  New York Sen. Hillary Clinton had her staff fabricate records of meetings and phone calls to familles of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks to burnish her image as New York's leading politician on 9/11 issues, the author of a new book on how U.S. officials dealt with the aftermath of the attacks charged Sunday.
  
  "I think [Sen. Clinton] has begun every statement she's ever made in her life about the families of the victims by saying she's met innumerable hours with the families of the victims," Steven Brill, author of the new book "After: How America Confronted the September 12 Era," told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg.
  
  To support Mrs. Clinton's claims of 9/11 victim service for his book, Brill said her staff tried to persuade him that she worked overtime to help, providing "an elaborate story, with an elaborate subtext of memos and phone calls - a long, long story."
  
  But, says the author, "None of it turned out to be true. ... They gave me documents and phone calls and things like that which just plain never happened."
  
  Brill, who defended the Clintons throughout the Monica Lewinsky impeachment scandal, said that efforts to mislead him began after the former first lady got word he was writing his 9/11 book. She actually sought him out at the Ground Zero ceremony commemorating the first anniversary of the attacks. "I hear you want to talk to me about your book," he recalls her saying.
  
  "We had this discussion which she insisted be off the record," Brill said. But he added, "She did follow up in one non-off-the-record conversation, urging me that the person responsible for aid to New York City was not [Sen.] Chuck Schumer but Hillary Clinton."
  
  Brill said he was astonished that Clinton would go to such lengths to fabricate a phony record of 9/11 service "all in the cause, actually, of shooting down Chuck Schumer getting a bunch of pages in a book."
  
  "It sort of takes your breath away when you think about it," he told Malzberg.
  
  The author detailed the saga of one family in particular, the Cartiers, who lost a relative in the Twin Towers collapse.
  
  "This family had tried repeatedly to get Hillary Clinton to meet with them," Brill said. "And always the staff said: 'Write up a memo. We don't meet with any families unless they write to us first and tell us what they want to meet about.'"
  
  "They said to me, the Cartiers - and these are not, you know, people who are political - that the only time families can meet with Hillary Clinton is if it's at a press conference."
  
  Meanwhile, said Brill, Sen. Schumer took time out on a Sunday to meet with the Cartiers - "no reporters, no cameras, no nothing."
  
  The former publisher of "Brill's Content" magazine said that then-Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Schumer worked to give the Cartier family access to Ground Zero and to Fresh Kills, the Staten Island recovery site, so they could search for their relative's remains.
  
  The former Clinton defender also cast doubt on the authenticity of an account offered by Chelsea Clinton, who told reporters after the attacks that she was so close to the Twin Towers collapse that she feared for her life.
  
  "There are people on Schumer's staff who say that Chelsea kept moving south [toward Ground Zero] the more the press kept reporting that [Schumer's daughter Jessica] really was at Stuyvesant High School," just five blocks away from Ground Zero, he said.
  
  Of Sen. Clinton's attempts to garner praise for helping 9/11 victims, Brill said, "What stunned me is that one person would try to steal away the credit from the other person, especially when everything I was hearing from the families is that Schumer" had helped far more.
  

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  • So, what else is new? Of course, based on Hillary's past behavior I have not doubt that she is positioning for praise that she did not earn and does not deserve. I do believe that she has a fetish for being in front of the cameras in on the front page of the newspaper and television news. She would run down a group of kindergarten students crossing the street at a controlled intersection in order to get herself before the press to make create a press opportunity for herself. (NT) -- William, 19:51:27 04/20/03 Sun
  • No surprises here. Scum is as scum does. The Klintoon disgrace and deception still attempts to carry the day, but now it is seen for what is truly is. The legacy of Vince 'Three Shots to the Back of the Head Suicide' Foster lingers. Little changes with these vermin. (NT) -- JL, 23:08:46 04/21/03 Mon
    • Unfortunately, knee-jerk liberals still think Gore should have won the election, don't understand the role of the Supreme Court, have been trained to parrot that anything Conservative is bad, won't question for themselves but will buy any false argument placed before them for anything, and have very short memories. Most still think the dislike for Clinton was "about sex." No matter how m any times he put our national securioty in jeopardy. A few former liberals/Democrats have awakened, but I fear too many stupid people out there. Ever watch the show "Street Smarts?" Pretty scarey stuff. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:54:13 04/22/03 Tue
      • Although there are certainly 'knee jerks' on both sides, the absolute unquestioning loyalty of leftists to the corruption and (continued) deceit is just amazing. They will try and try, but will not be allowed to re-write history. (NT) -- JL, 20:44:52 04/23/03 Wed

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• Anyone want to weigh in on a topic Jeff Katz brought up the other day?....that of a push to legislate public schoolchildren's behavior. -- Spock, 12:30:34 04/16/03 Wed (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
  I think it's in Connecticut somewhere he was talking about.
  
  It's quite a debate. Apparently they want to actually pass legislation that will actually make it illegal for a child to decline to play with another who asks. It will also be illegal for a child to bully another -- and the definition of "bully" is rather broad, to include even mere teasing, not just physical roughing up. Who thinks up these things?
  
  There were callers who were saying they agreed with making bullying illegal, because they were given a hard time when they were in school. Katz was trying to make the point that kids are going to be kids, regardless, and we can't make it illegal for nature following its course.
  
  Nobody likes to be teased, much less physically intimidated or abused. But whatever happened to just punishing deviant behavior? If a bully punches a kid, he's appropriately punished for assaulting another. End of story. That's what happened when I was growing up and it seemed to work fine.
  
  My family moved a lot when I was a kid, so I was often "the new kid" -- plus I was a nerd. It was horrible to be made fun of, but you learn to determine who your real friends are that way. And you learn by practice the "do unto others as you would have them do to you" rule, i.e., I refrain from certain kinds of jokes because I know what it's like to be the butt of them.
  
  My question is how do they plan to actually monitor and maintain such legislation? Install full-blown Big Brother?
  
  My other question is what about parental responsibility (and accountability) to teach (and consistently reinforce) their kids common decency and respect? And I know single parents who have raised good kids too, so I don't buy that as a disclaimer.
  

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  • This is a late April Fool's jok, right? But seriously, when parnts enroll their kids in school they sign a document wherein many parental rights are waived and given to the school system. Don't be surprised at some of the proposed "remedies." (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 13:28:45 04/16/03 Wed
    • Sadly, this is no joke. And predictably, it IS in CT (my sweetie hails from this bastion of idiocy, so I am fairly well informed about their doings). Typical New England PCBS. I guess the newest entitlement is to a 'bully-less childhood'? Gimme a break. Both sides of bullying suck, but are part of the learning experience, IMHO. (NT) -- JL (bullied - and then a bully once I grew to almost 6'), 21:19:42 04/16/03 Wed
      • One could argue thatthe school district is "bullying" the parents with this. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 08:53:18 04/17/03 Thu
        • No. Unfortunately, the vast left wing idiocy that would be modern day CT just eats this shit up. Right up their alley. I know the only normal people who live there, IMHO. (NT) -- JL, 23:12:08 04/21/03 Mon
          • People who give up their rights thinking they'll get something in return are just plain stupid. Unfortunately those who want to retain their rights, have them swept away. I wish I had the sone "Wooley Bully" to insert right here. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Starting to think Social Darwinism isn't such a bad idea.), 19:59:06 04/22/03 Tue

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• New Age Liberal Prayer for the New World Order Global Village -- William, 12:22:55 04/22/03 Tue (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
  Prayer of the Liberal Elite
  

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• Is Fox biting the hand that feeds it? -- H_Bergeron, 00:56:36 04/19/03 Sat (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
  From the Taipei Times

  Al-Jazeera TV gets fees from footage used by Fox, NBC

  BLOOMBERG
  Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003,Page 12

  Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel, criticized by US officials for its war coverage, is a favorite with rivals worldwide. The Arab-language network pays most of its expenses with fees it collects from other channels that use its news footage.

  Executives at News Corp's Fox News Channel, Viacom Inc's CBS and General Electric Co's NBC said their companies pay al-Jazeera for the right to use whatever footage they choose, from exclusive video of Baghdad to captured US soldiers. The US-based broadcasters declined to say how much they pay.

  The fees are enough to keep al-Jazeera, started in 1996 by Qatar's emir with a US$150 million investment, from having to ask its benefactor for more money, according to Al-Jazeera's marketing chief, Jihad Ali Ballout.

  The agreements with US networks are "a beautiful thing," Ballout said in an interview. "It not only generates money, but it puts us in bed with reputable partners."

  read the rest of the articlehere

  
  

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  Replies:

  • Not surprising, they get some good material, stuff you won't see on other channels because it conflicts with their views. Often it's not for the squeamish. Some of the newsreels of the Israeli Army's attacks are horrific, but stations in the West don't show them for some reason. Rumsfeld doesn't like Al Jazeera because it showed POW footage - he forgot that nations sign the Geneva Convention, not TV stations. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:24:28 04/19/03 Sat
    • Lie down with dogs; get up with fleas. Al Jazeera knew better and so did the other news services that showed it later. Many decided it was not news but propaganda and refrained. I would hope that decent news services would end their contracts with AJ but they won't. CNN will be the real test of how blatant overt bias and disreputible practices can turn viewers elsewhere. CNN may need to reorganize with new leadership, less in bed with those they report, or refrain from, reporting on. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:26:43 04/20/03 Sun
      • Sounds like CNN doesn't have any friends anywhere! Certainly the Arab view is that it's strongly pro-US. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:42:14 04/21/03 Mon
        • CNN may as well be an arm of the DNC. Those who have been paying attention call it the Clinton News Network. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:18:31 04/21/03 Mon

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• Lack of French backing US on war in Iraq -- A Willie, 14:48:48 04/19/03 Sat (wiley-91-18596.roadrunner.nf.net/205.251.191.129)
  I was really disturbed by the fact that France will not agree with the decision on the US going after Iraq, it was the french who can thank the United States and other countries for helping them to rid their country of Nazi Germany occupation during WWII so they can enjoy the freedom they have today, Now they have the audacity to not return the favor and not help us rid the world of another evil dictator. At least this time the world woke up and did something before it happened again.
  

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  Replies:

  • It was actually not just France but 9 countries on the Security Council that opposed the war. The only ones in support were US, UK, Spain. That's why the resolution was not put to the vote, and the US and UK started an illegal war based on WMD's that have yet to be located. Resolution 1441 and all the other resolutions do not mention anything about getting rid of dictators. If the UK and US really wanted to do that, they would also be going after North Korea, China, Myanmar, Zimbabwe etc... (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:16:45 04/20/03 Sun
    • Let's not forget some 40-odd other countries not on the security council. What is shows is how useless the security council is. Since France did not need to lobby so vociferously, just vote, why do Europeans wonder at our finally giving up on France. Their collusion with the Iraq regime is disgusting. So is the U.S.'s past attempts to appease Saddam and other tyrants. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I don't think I'd vote to liberate France today), 17:18:44 04/20/03 Sun
  • I'm sure the French are grateful to the US and other countries for their liberation. The country that did the most in that respect was the Soviet Union, which lost 20 million civilians and soldiers fighting the Nazis, and so weakened them on the Eastern Front that the Western front campaign was relatively quick. The UK also "stood alone" through 1940 and 1941 and therefore provided the springboard for that liberation. The US provided 60% of the forces in the Normandy landings, alongside British, Canadians, ANZ's, Free French and Poles, contrary to the impression given by "Private Ryan". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:27:37 04/20/03 Sun
  • The Brits (where I am at the moment) will always gleefully point out that on average, the US came into a World War about 3 years after everyone else, to claim the glory once Germany had already been "softened up"! They're very amused by all the Hollywood films that disregard any other country's contribution to these wars, especially U-571 which has the US capturing the Enigma code, not HMS Bulldog as in real life. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:43:22 04/20/03 Sun
    • Hollywood is guilty as charged but was the end of the war the cause or the effect of American entrance? How exactly did the French/Belgiums/Dutch /Norwegians/Danes/Poles soften up the Germans? (NT) -- Chez, 07:57:29 04/20/03 Sun
      • Yes they would, but clearly it would have taken longer. The unanswered (unanswerable?) question, though, is whether the wars would have ended earlier than 1918 and 1945 if the US had come in at the start. It's something the Brits would have liked very much; Churchill spent a lot of time trying to win over Roosevelt. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 14:12:45 04/20/03 Sun
        • Chris, the US did help bring an end to WW II and defeat the Nazi and Musollini. Try as you will you can not deny that. Hitler did make the same mistake as Napolean did when he tried to march on Moscow during the winter so he did make a tactical error. Nevertheless do you remember what took place at Normandy and "D" day? Thousands of US soldiers and other allied soldiers died invading that day which eventually led to the liberation of France and the defeat of Germany. The US does deserve praise for saving France, Russia, and others. Without the US, Hitler would most likely have won. (NT) -- William, 20:22:13 04/20/03 Sun
          • I absolutely agree with your first sentence - that's what I said in my posting above, I certainly didn't deny it. Last sentence? Hmmm, I would debate that, although the war would certainly have lasted longer. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:39:45 04/21/03 Mon
    • British and Russian contributions are well documented and both fought valiantly but are you saying you think they could have defeated the Germans without the US help? (NT) -- Chez, 08:03:05 04/20/03 Sun
  • There's also a lot of puzzlement in Europe as to why we are picking on the French all the time, when Russia and China were equally opposed and equally likely to use the veto. The "le Monde" newspaper said, very unkindly, that it may be related to the size of those other countries. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:48:40 04/20/03 Sun
    • It is because of their affinity for two savage murderers, Ira Einhorn and Mumia Abu-Jamal and all other things left of center... (NT) -- Chez, 07:51:10 04/20/03 Sun
    • Chirac went out of his way to try to sabotage as well as insult. This is just the culmination of years of being not only unhelpful, but arrogant and insulting. The rise of anit-semitism in France as well indicates that the French no longer control France. As Chez pointed out, they also blocked extradition of a convicted murderer for some time until even they couldnlt endure the stench. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 10:35:24 04/20/03 Sun

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• As evidence is revealed, the picture gets more disturbing . . . will the explanations be revealing as well? Only time will tell. -- SurveyGuy (not surprised, but disappointed), 17:24:36 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
  German spies aided Saddam?
  Documents seized in Baghdad point to ties with Iraq's intelligence service
  
  Documents recovered from the bombed Iraqi intelligence headquarters in Baghdad reveal Germany's intelligence services attempted to build closer ties to Saddam's secret service during the build-up to war last year, according to a report in the London Telegraph.
  
  The documents point to a meeting on January 29, 2002 between an agent named as Johannes William Hoffner and Lt. Gen. Taher Jalil Haboosh, the director of Iraq's intelligence service.
  
  Haboosh indicates the Iraqis are anxious to cultivate a relationship with Germany's intelligence agency ''under diplomatic cover," and offers to give lucrative contracts to German companies if Berlin helps prevent an American invasion of Iraq. He also urges Hoffner to lobby the German government to raise its diplomatic mission in Baghdad to full ambassadorial level, according to the Telegraph.
  
  ''When the American conspiracy is finished, we will make a calculation for each state that helps Iraq in its crisis,'' Haboosh says. He indicates he hoped to forge the relationship through Hoffner, who replies: ''My organization wants to develop its relationship with your organization.''
  
  Haboosh also tells the German agent Iraq has ''big problems'' with Britain and the United States. ''We have problems with Britain because it occupied Iraq for 60 years and with America because of its aggression for 11 years,'' he says.
  
  The meeting between the Iraqi and German agents took place some six months before Chancellor Schroeder's government began its policy of direct opposition to the idea of a U.S.-led war against Iraq. Schroeder was re-elected last September, largely because of the popularity of his government's outspoken opposition to the war.
  
  The revelations about Iraq's ties to German intelligence come a week after The Telegraph reported Russia had spied for the Iraqis, passing them intelligence about a meeting between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister. Both the British and Italian governments have launched investigations.
  

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  • Maybe we should be looking at evryone on the security council that voted, in effect, to keep Saddam. Hmmm? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:25:52 04/20/03 Sun
  • P.S. You'll love this ... Syria is on the security council. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:05:27 04/20/03 Sun

  ---

• In defense of tolerance -- Dr. Phil Fernandes, 16:34:09 04/19/03 Sat (0-2pool18-141.nas10.bellevue1.wa.us.da.qwest.net/67.3.18.141)
  I believe it to be rather ironic that Christianity is viewed as being "intolerant" & is practically banned from public schools in North America, while the supposedly "tolerant" pro-homosexual activists force their agenda on public school children using the power of big government to achieve their goals. And then, as if that's not enough, the homosexual activists try to force traditional Christians, Muslims, & Jews to refrain from calling homosexuality a "sin." I guess homosexual activists, in the name of freedom & tolerance, want to control both public education & the religions of other people. What kind of tolerance is this? Pastor Stephen Boissoin has done nothing wrong; please don't strip him of his religious freedom. Don't be intolerant of him in the name of "tolerance."
  

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• Re. the Baghdad hotel attack - For those who believe that 1) Government politicians always tell the truth 2) Their spokesmen always tell the truth 3) Journalists and independent observers are unreliable 4) the armed forces will always admit their mistakes 5) Civilian deaths are excusable in the fight against terrorism - here is a salutary story. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/northern_ireland/2000/bloody_sunday/map/default.stm Only on that occasion, it was the Irish who got killed, not Arabs. -- Chris Henry, 07:19:03 04/18/03 Fri (NoHost/82.47.215.137)
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  Replies:
  • I don't believe any of them. But lately journalists have been shown to be the worst liars. Next month it will be someone else. in first place. Sometimes you have to hold your beliefs in abeyance until more evidence is in as well as use some common sense. Civilian deaths are inevitable in the fight against terrorism. A fact of life or death if you prefer. Civilian deaths are the focus of terrorism, or hadn't you noticed? Now excusing those deaths is just sick. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:43:17 04/18/03 Fri
    • "journalists have been shown to be the worst liars". Well maybe this profession is about to be surpassed by Heads of State. Bush and Blair were very vociferous about the existence of Iraq's WMD's, and now the country is occupied, we'll soon see if their statements were the truth, or the biggest lie this century. If the latter, it'll certainly make Clinton's "grass and sex" lies seem puny in comparison. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:09:22 04/19/03 Sat

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• Daschle is no mensch either . . . -- SurveyGuy, 15:53:34 04/17/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/17/141032
  Thursday, April 17, 2003
  Church to Daschle: You're No Catholic
  
  Pro-abortion Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle may no longer call himself a Catholic. So reports the Weekly Standard, which says Daschle, the highest-ranking Democrat in Washington, has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, S.D., directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church.
  
  The magazine's Web site reports today, "This isn't exactly excommunication - which is unnecessary, in any case, since Daschle made himself ineligible for communion almost 20 years ago with his divorce and remarriage to a Washington lobbyist," the high-powered and controversial Linda Daschle.
  
  The directive from Sioux Falls Bishop Robert Carlson is a declaration that Daschle's religious identification constitutes "a grave public scandal," the Standard says.
  
  In 1997, Bishop Carlson publicly said Daschle's phony, hole-filled "compromise" on partial-birth abortion, allowing the mother to make any claim of mental or physical health as a reason for such a gruesome late-term abortion, was a "smokescreen" designed solely to "provide cover for pro-abortion senators and President Clinton, who wanted to avoid a veto confrontation."
  
  Daschle fought back on the floor of the Senate by denouncing his own bishop for speaking in a way "more identified with the radical right than with thoughtful religious leadership," the Standard reports.
  
  Bishop Carlson later told the Sioux Falls Argus Leader that he remained mystified by Daschle's position on abortion. "NARAL claims him as one of their number-one supporters. I don't understand how he can be in touch with South Dakotans as much as he is, and yet consistently have a pro-abortion record."
  
  South Dakota's Catholic bishop is not the first is America to finally tell allegedly Catholic politicians to stop their hypocrisy. Sacramento Bishop William Weigand has told California Gov. Gray Davis to renounce his support of abortion or stop taking Holy Communion.
  

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  • What I find ironic about TD is the character he's revealing in all these public political squabbles since GWB entered the White House. His allies were saying he's always been such a quiet and mild-mannered sort, so his flying off the handle now is deemed credible evidence of how wrong the right is. How about this: he's finally revealing his true colors, now that he's not getting his way all the time like Bubba let him? I have yet to hear a liberal not sound like a spoiled brat having a temper tantrum. Can anyone show me otherwise? (NT) -- Spock, 11:34:06 04/18/03 Fri

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• Dennis Miller Kills !! -- Chez, 11:00:02 04/18/03 Fri (03-039.002.popsite.net/64.24.17.39)
  Did anyone get a chance to see Dennis Miller on his HBO special? He was hilarious. I could not find a transcript of the HBO special but here is a partial transcript of some of his jokes.. (HBO did not renew Miller's contract.)
  ENJOY !!
  
  On the length of the war
  
  “And now we've got people whining about how long the war is taking. For God's sakes it's been two weeks. You know, it took Joe Millionaire eight weeks to pick Zora (sp?).”
  
  On Abortion:
  I saw Ed Harris one night speaking at a pro-choice — pro-choice rally. Ed Harris the actor said we shouldn't go to war. I was thinking if you can't get your head around the war, why don't you just think of it as choosing to abort Saddam Hussein. Wouldn't that be a rationale
  
  
  On the Russians:
  if they could take out that many friedlies liberating an opera house, do you really want them flying off your wing in a real war?
  
  On the Belgium
  
  The Belgians, you knew they'd waffle?
  
  On the Germans:
  "You going to rely on the Germans? For god's sake, with the Germans you never know if they're not signing on because they don't believe in it or it's just not on a grand enough scale"
  
  On the French:
  The French, you might as well gas up the dinghy and go fishing with Fredo because you are dead to me, okay. You know something? These pricks are now putting — they're putting swastikas on our flag in France
  
  
  
  
  http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bldennismiller_rant.htm
  
  http://forums.about.com/ab-politicalhmr/messages/?lgnf=y&msg=866.1
  

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  Replies:

  • Thanks, Chez! We don't have HBO, but I've always been a DM fan. My favorite here was the abortion joke! The logic holds true, but of course you'd never get a liberal to admit that. Their logic seems to be: "what I want is what everyone should want, and what I don't want couldn't possibly be what anyone wants, and I'm free to change my mind anytime I want, and you'd all better keep up and agree." Nice and subjective and relative -- and childish. (NT) -- Spock, 11:28:09 04/18/03 Fri

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• Will we ever know the truth? U.S. lies too, but with great complexity. Will we ever know the truth about Flt 800 either? -- SurveyGuy, 10:20:17 04/12/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  
  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31868
  ARMED AND DANGEROUS
  Expert: Government science failed at Waco
  Says conclusion agents did not fire weapons possibly pre-determined
  
  Posted: April 12, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
  By Jon Dougherty © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  An independent forward-looking infrared, or FLIR, analyst says the government used inappropriate scientific methods to "prove" federal agents did not fire at Branch Davidians as they tried to escape their burning complex in Waco, Texas, a decade ago – perhaps, she says, to reach a predetermined conclusion that exonerates federal agents.
  
  [Snipped . . . click headline for full story]
  

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  • If they lied about this, why expect them to tell the truth about firing at the journalists' hotel in Baghdad? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:49:25 04/13/03 Sun
    • Maybe. This is not Janet Reno and ATF flunkees under the Clinton administration. No advantage to lying about hotel. I have no idea what happened. You seem to have already decided. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:16:49 04/13/03 Sun
      • i am happy to go with the eye-witness accounts of dozens of journalists. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:04:36 04/15/03 Tue
        • If that's all it takes to make you happy, I am glad you do not investigate things. Remember the 100s of journalists that reported that no brutality was taking place in Iraq. I prefer to wait for the other side as well, then weigh the evidence as presented. Then decide on my degree of disbelief. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Still believe Flt 800 was a terrorist attack), 11:36:18 04/15/03 Tue
          • please give me the URL of just one journalist (not a 100, one will do) reporting that no brutality was taking place. If you do, I'll be happy to investigate further. But if you don't believe the collective observations of dozens of journalists, whom do you believe? If it's politicians and spokesme, I feel sorry for you, you'll spend your life in a dream world. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:45:55 04/18/03 Fri
        • Of course Saddam Hussein's regime would NEVER think of planting snipers where return fire might put civilians in the line of fire, right? That would be just too monstrous, for such a nice guy, right? (NT) -- Spock, 13:18:13 04/15/03 Tue

  ---

• Regarding thread Irish-Iraqi humour -- Born and Raised in Ireland, 16:50:12 04/13/03 Sun (dyn-212-83-185-152.ppp.tiscali.fr/212.83.185.152)
  From an Irish Passport Holder:
  
  You American morons actually think that Irish people are not insulted by this?
  
  Fucking Americans. I think that speaks for every actual Irish person.
  
  Note, American passport holders are NOT Irish. Ireland is a nation and you cannot "decide" to be Irish anymore than I can "decide" to declare myself to be American.
  
  If you don't like it I suggest you stick a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. That's something most Irish people wish American tourists would do.
  

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  Replies:

  • What are you talking about? Your post makes no sense to me. If you come back here again to this site would you explain yourself and your post? (NT) -- William, 01:03:01 04/14/03 Mon
    • The poster doesn't speak for the Irish I've met. A group of us even marched round St. Stephens Green in Dublin for the parade and were greeted warmly. Irish will wave at tourist buses because they know they how many of their kin are in America and some may even be on the bus. The attitide of the poster is definitely French. The Irish are a lovely people. In fact we saw the delightful group "Spirit of Ireland" just last night. If you ever heard hal Roach, he uses "Paddy" and "Murphey" in his humorous stories all of the time. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I guess French are anti-American, anti-semitic and apparently don't like the Irish either), 16:15:51 04/14/03 Mon
  • I think the post explains why the French liberals are considered so rude. Don't worry, I have no intention of visiting France. I would gladly return to Ireland. (They don't like the French much either, by the way.) Of course that characterization is not applicable to those in the countryside. In summary, the French apparently have no sense of humor. The Irish, on the other hand can laugh at themselves. Those of Irish decent in the U.S. can (and often do) hold dual citizenship. I've definitiely stopped buying or drinking French wines now. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Many Irish feel they've been cheated by the new Euro setup)., 16:03:34 04/14/03 Mon
  • If you do return, here's questions you'd know the answer to if you were born and raised in Ireland: (1) What dry goods store is located in the Gap of Dunloe in Killarney? (2) What facility is located right next to the Irish National Stud Farms? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I'd ask about Glendalough and which saint is associated with it, but everyone knows that), 19:14:05 04/14/03 Mon
  • Temper, temper, me friend (sic....or is that 'sick'?)! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Lay off the whiskey already.....either that or you haven't had enough yet. Where's your sense of humor? I for one speak as an American of partial Irish heritage. Incidentally, my sister-in-law, who's fully Irish-American, actually enjoyed the humor to which you so violently react against. (BTW: are you in France now because you got kicked out of Ireland, or decided they were too nice to keep company with?) (NT) -- Spock, 13:03:03 04/15/03 Tue
    • I wonder how he'd react to this joke about diabilities: Why don't blind men bunji jump? Click for answer . . . -- SurveyGuy, 19:07:59 04/15/03 Tue
      • I think it's all an insecurity complex, and in this case, an accompanying superiority complex....nasty combination. No sense of humor, plus he doesn't get the joke, so he automatically takes it personally and as an insult, and then has to bluster and talk tough to compensate. What an exhausting lifestyle. (NT) -- Spock, 12:14:45 04/16/03 Wed

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• Save these for discussion at gatherings about ending the income tax (in favor of a sales tax) -- SurveyGuy, 20:05:53 04/14/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
  'Most outrageous' ways feds spend money
  Libertarian Party releases Washington's Top 10 expenditures
  
  Posted: April 14, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern
  © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
  
  Awarding $170 million to a pornographer who wants to hand out condoms around the world is just one of the U.S. government's "top 10 spending outrages" this year, according to the Libertarian Party.
  
  The list – whose release was purposely timed to coincide with April 15, the deadline for filing federal income tax – details "all the crazy ways the government will spend your money," said the party in a statement.
  
  "Rampant government waste, fraud and abuse only adds insult to the injury inflicted by the income tax," said Geoffrey Neale, national chair of the Libertarian Party. "On tax day, it's time to remind ourselves how right humorist P.J. O'Rourke was when he said giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teen-age boys."
  
  Here are the party's most egregious federal spending items, according to its statement:
  
  
  1. "Giving $170 million to a pornographer who wants to hand out condoms around the world. The U.S. Agency for International Development awarded the grant to Population Services International, or PSI, a nonprofit corporation whose mission is to curb sexually transmitted diseases. PSI was founded in 1971 by Philip Harvey, who runs a massive mail-order pornography firm called Adam and Eve.
  
  2. "Funding a $1.8 million study of algae in hot water. The funding, contained in an omnibus appropriations bill, was given to the Bozeman, Mont., Center on Life in Extreme Thermal Environments, according to Citizens Against Government Waste.
  
  3. "Authorizing a $1 million program at Auburn University to train dogs to spot terrorist activity. The money was earmarked by Sen.Richard Shelby, R-Ala., in a bill funding the Veterans Administration and Housing Department.
  
  4. "Spending $3.6 million for 'team-building' exercises for the Postal Service. At a series of employee retreats, hundreds of Postal workers played children's games, sang 'We Are Family,' wrote Christmas carols, went on treasure hunts, dressed in cat costumes, took scat singing lessons, and talked to imaginary wizards, magicians and mad scientists at staff meetings.
  
  5. "Mailing Social Security checks to fugitives. Though a 1996 law prohibits the payments, 36,752 fugitives have been collecting benefits anyway, costing taxpayers $223.7 million, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.
  
  6. "Paying $560 million to trim weeds at the Montana Sheep Institute – money contained in a $397.4 billion appropriations bill passed by Congress earlier this year.
  
  7. "Authorizing pay raises for Congress and other federal workers. Senators and representatives raised their salaries by $5,000 this year, to $154,700. President Bush also handed a 4.1 percent pay increase in February to federal workers, even though many of the private-sector employees footing the bill are taking pay cuts and even losing their jobs in a difficult economy.
  
  8. "Hiring 2 million government workers – in Iraq. As part of the postwar plan to 'promote stability,' the Pentagon wants to pay the salaries of 2 million soldiers, teachers, police officers and other government workers in Iraq – in effect putting one out of every 10 Iraqis on the U.S. government payroll.
  
  9. "Selling expensive government property for pennies. According to government auditors, the Energy Department sold a $9,000 copier to NTS Development Corp. for 5 cents, and sold the firm 23 trucks worth $448,000 for 17 cents each.
  
  10. "Guaranteeing even more waste, fraud and abuse next year by increasing the federal budget to a record $2.3 trillion."
  
  Commented Neale: "Considering all the ways the government is already squandering your money, giving politicians a bigger budget is like giving those teen-age boys another shot of whiskey and a faster car. The only way to protect the nation from these reckless spendaholics is to cut the politicians off for good by ending the income tax."
  

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  Replies:

  • So where's all the liberal outrage over things like this? Why just pick on military spending? (NT) -- Spock, 12:07:51 04/16/03 Wed

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• This is the story they've been talking about all day . . . only now the truth can be told? Eason Jordan should have been sitting beside Colin Powell at the UN and telling these stories at that time. -- SurveyGuy (are we disgusted enough yet??), 15:09:34 04/11/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  The News We Kept to Ourselves
  By EASON JORDAN
  
  . . .
  
  For example, in the mid-1990's one of our Iraqi cameramen was abducted. For weeks he was beaten and subjected to electroshock torture in the basement of a secret police headquarters because he refused to confirm the government's ludicrous suspicion that I was the Central Intelligence Agency's Iraq station chief. CNN had been in Baghdad long enough to know that telling the world about the torture of one of its employees would almost certainly have gotten him killed and put his family and co-workers at grave risk.
  
  . . .
  
  [Click Headline to read full story on NYT Op-Ed. Now ask your selves why this is on the Editorial Page and not considered new?]
  

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  Replies:

  • Glenn Beck was ranting about it this morning, which is how Iearned of it. He made the valid point that CNN was right in protecting the families of their captured/tortured reporters by not reporting these incidents when they happened, but they lose all credibility by aiding and abetting the enemy by all but endorsing Saddam Hussein and his regime in their broadcasting while unilaterally trashing anything pro-America or the Bush Administration. I believe it's known as being "two-faced." (NT) -- Spock, 16:16:18 04/11/03 Fri
    • What is strange is how many of these America-bashers think that they somehow retain some kind of credibility with the public. Dixies Chicks sales dropped by 40% which explains the lame spin "it was a joke." These sort morons do not understand the consequences when the public wakes up to what they've been doing and saying. Jordan should have spoken up; the fat Dixie Chick should have kept her mouth shut. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I wonder how this story will affect far left politicians. You can identify them by the foot in theior mouths), 18:45:14 04/11/03 Fri
  • NO BLOOD FOR NEWS !! (NT) -- Chez, 20:01:10 04/12/03 Sat
    • A great bumper-sticker, Chez, except few would comprehend the allusion. Still, it would make a great needlepoint to help start a conversation. I dare say, you've summed it all up nicely. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:12:30 04/14/03 Mon
      • I'll get out a needle and thread....I still love the Iraqis holding that "Human Shield" poster that they added "Go Home You Wankers" to. (NT) -- Spock, 13:20:01 04/15/03 Tue

  ---

• Irish-Iraq Humor -- SurveyGuy, 08:53:12 02/27/03 Thu (maxtnt06-100.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.241.100)
  This little item crossed my desktop. Let me be the first to share it before you get the usual dozen copies.
  
  Subject: Irish-Iraq humor
  
  Saddam Hussein was sitting in his office wondering whom to invade next when his telephone rang. "Hallo, Mr. Hussein!" a heavily accented voice said. "This is Paddy down at the Harp Pub in County Sligo Ireland. I am ringing to inform you that we are officially declaring war on you!"
  
  "Well, Paddy," Saddam replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is your army?"
  
  "Right now," said Paddy, after a moment's calculation, "there is myself, my cousin Sean, my next door neighbor Seamus, and the entire dart team from the pub. That makes eight!"
  
  Saddam paused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have one million men in my army waiting to move on my command."
  
  "Begorra!" said Paddy. "I'll have to ring you back!" Sure enough, the next day, Paddy called again. "Mr. Hussein, the war is still on! We have managed to acquire some infantry equipment!"
  
  "And what equipment would that be, Paddy?" Saddam asked.
  
  "Well, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and Murphy's farm tractor.
  
  "Saddam sighed. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 16,000 tanks and 14,000 armored personnel carriers. Also, I've increased my army to 2 million since we last spoke."
  
  "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!" said Paddy, "I'll have to ring you back." Sure enough, Paddy called again the next day.
  
  "Top o' the mornin,' Mr. Hussein! I am sorry to tell you that we have had to call off the war."
  
  "I'm sorry to hear that," said Saddam. "Why the sudden change of heart?"
  
  "Well," said Paddy, "we've all had a long chat over a bunch of pints, and decided there's no way we can feed two million prisoners."
  
  God Bless the Irish!
  
  

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  Replies:

  • Love it!!! On the eighth day, you know, God invented whiskey to prevent the Irish from taking over the world! (NT) -- Spock, 12:51:57 02/27/03 Thu
  • Ahhh, you are full of blarney! Saddam Hussein would probably fall in love with a pretty, freckle faced, red haired Irish lass and forget all about the war. Then she would unleash her hot Irish temper on him and turn him into a quivering, cowaring mass of jelly.

    Thanks for the entertaining piece! (NT) -- William, 13:02:34 02/27/03 Thu

    • ...images of "The Crying Game" suddenly come to mind... (NT) -- Spock, 16:19:14 02/27/03 Thu
  • This is the story the French nuts responded to. If anything it is in the sppirit of the famous Irish Comedian, Hal Roach. I have been to Ireland and I have met Mr. Roach. This is exactly how he would tell the joke (I have seen himperform as well as listened to his recordings). By, God, it may even be one of his recent ones. (Had the French whiners replied to the thred as I did, it would have jumpted to the top as this now has. Ignorance usually exhibits itself in manifold forms. Not knowing how to reply to a post is but one of them.) (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The Irish have a better sense of humor than the French apparently), 15:30:55 04/14/03 Mon
    • Well, SG, just picture the respective countrymen in your mind....which one is smiling? conversely, which one is sneering (aside from our friend here)? 'Nuff said. (NT) -- Spock, 13:10:47 04/15/03 Tue

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• Regarding thread Irish-Iraqi humour -- Born and Raised in Ireland, 17:01:27 04/13/03 Sun (dyn-212-83-185-152.ppp.tiscali.fr/212.83.185.152)
  And just before I go, should you ever actually go to Ireland or meet a Irish person (note the whole passport thing wantabees) note that should you call them "Paddy" or think it is funny to say phrases like "Begorra" or "Top o' the mornin", watch out, you may be talking to me and I'll smash your face in half for taunting my nationality.
  
  You actually wonder why you are becomming unpopular internationally? Blame the internet and your own attitude.
  

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  • I have no idea why you posted this here and I do not understand your post. What was posted here that you are addressing? What is it that you are addressing in and of itself? (NT) -- William, 00:59:54 04/14/03 Mon
    • Wm -- note domain is France. Enough said. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:24:36 04/14/03 Mon
      • Yes, SurveyGuy. I did notice the French domain when I read the posts. That is another reason I did not understand the comment or why this person posting throught the French domain was upset about things Irish. (NT) -- William, 05:25:48 04/15/03 Tue
  • You don't seem to comprehend, the joke lauds the indominable Irish spirit while showing they are unintimidated by bullies like Saddam. You are clearly French, not Irish. You'd rather be uncivilized. Sorry, but you seem to be the ignorant party here and a phony besides. You've been "outed." You can't get us to attack the Irish because you act like a buffoon and claim to be Irish yet post from an IP in France. Everyone go to www.tiscali.fr and see what I mean. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (not expecting phony French communist provacateur to return), 18:54:14 04/14/03 Mon
  • So.....What if his name actually is Paddy? (It is a legitimate name, you know.) Should I call him Patrique instead? (NT) -- Spock, 13:09:13 04/15/03 Tue

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• Confessions of a CNN chief newsman or "How the truth was withheld and the news distorted." (AKA - "Uncle Saddam was a madman!") -- William, 00:56:00 04/14/03 Mon (cache-mtc-ah04.proxy.aol.com/64.12.96.169)
  
  
  Secrets About Saddam that We Kept to Ourselves
  By Eason Jordan
  New York Times | April 11, 2003
  
  Over the last dozen years I made 13 trips to Baghdad to lobby the government to keep CNN's Baghdad bureau open and to arrange interviews with Iraqi leaders. Each time I visited, I became more distressed by what I saw and heard ? awful things that could not be reported because doing so would have jeopardized the lives of Iraqis, particularly those on our Baghdad staff.
  
  For example, in the mid-1990's one of our Iraqi cameramen was abducted. For weeks he was beaten and subjected to electroshock torture in the basement of a secret police headquarters because he refused to confirm the government's ludicrous suspicion that I was the Central Intelligence Agency's Iraq station chief. CNN had been in Baghdad long enough to know that telling the world about the torture of one of its employees would almost certainly have gotten him killed and put his family and co-workers at grave risk.
  
  Working for a foreign news organization provided Iraqi citizens no protection. The secret police terrorized Iraqis working for international press services who were courageous enough to try to provide accurate reporting. Some vanished, never to be heard from again. Others disappeared and then surfaced later with whispered tales of being hauled off and tortured in unimaginable ways. Obviously, other news organizations were in the same bind we were when it came to reporting on their own workers.
  
  We also had to worry that our reporting might endanger Iraqis not on our payroll. I knew that CNN could not report that Saddam Hussein's eldest son, Uday, told me in 1995 that he intended to assassinate two of his brothers-in-law who had defected and also the man giving them asylum, King Hussein of Jordan. If we had gone with the story, I was sure he would have responded by killing the Iraqi translator who was the only other participant in the meeting. After all, secret police thugs brutalized even senior officials of the Information Ministry, just to keep them in line (one such official has long been missing all his fingernails).
  
  Still, I felt I had a moral obligation to warn Jordan's monarch, and I did so the next day. King Hussein dismissed the threat as a madman's rant. A few months later Uday lured the brothers-in-law back to Baghdad; they were soon killed.
  
  I came to know several Iraqi officials well enough that they confided in me that Saddam Hussein was a maniac who had to be removed. One Foreign Ministry officer told me of a colleague who, finding out his brother had been executed by the regime, was forced, as a test of loyalty, to write a letter of congratulations on the act to Saddam Hussein. An aide to Uday once told me why he had no front teeth: henchmen had ripped them out with pliers and told him never to wear dentures, so he would always remember the price to be paid for upsetting his boss. Again, we could not broadcast anything these men said to us.
  
  Last December, when I told Information Minister Muhammad Said al-Sahhaf that we intended to send reporters to Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, he warned me they would "suffer the severest possible consequences." CNN went ahead, and in March, Kurdish officials presented us with evidence that they had thwarted an armed attack on our quarters in Erbil. This included videotaped confessions of two men identifying themselves as Iraqi intelligence agents who said their bosses in Baghdad told them the hotel actually housed C.I.A. and Israeli agents. The Kurds offered to let us interview the suspects on camera, but we refused, for fear of endangering our staff in Baghdad.
  
  Then there were the events that were not unreported but that nonetheless still haunt me. A 31-year-old Kuwaiti woman, Asrar Qabandi, was captured by Iraqi secret police occupying her country in 1990 for "crimes," one of which included speaking with CNN on the phone. They beat her daily for two months, forcing her father to watch. In January 1991, on the eve of the American-led offensive, they smashed her skull and tore her body apart limb by limb. A plastic bag containing her body parts was left on the doorstep of her family's home.
  
  I felt awful having these stories bottled up inside me. Now that Saddam Hussein's regime is gone, I suspect we will hear many, many more gut-wrenching tales from Iraqis about the decades of torment. At last, these stories can be told freely.
  
  Eason Jordan is chief news executive at CNN.
  

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  • How can I help but feel that if Mr. Jordan had spoken up at the UN, we'd have been rid of Saddam and his thugs much earlier and saved many from their suffering. If they will hide such atrocities, what don;t they tell us about the Democrats that they may know? Or anything for that matter? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:31:22 04/14/03 Mon

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• And now . . . a little Irish Folk Music -- SurveyGuy, 19:31:25 04/14/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
  Here is a classic Irish folksong. I am familiar with many more because I know some Civil War re-enactors and they have been performing around the area. All funds raised go to preserve historic Civil War sites. They have several Irish members as well as others. They have "adopted" the Pennsylvania Irish 69th and have done such things as replace or provide headstones for the graves of those Irish who fought in our Civil War.
  
  This link is a commercial group called the Irish Rovers. You need RealPayer to hear it.
  
  Whiskey In The Jar by The Irish Rovers
  
  
  (P.S. You won't see any French music posted here.)
  

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  • I have also seen The Young Dubliners perform. A bit loud for my tastes but very talented. The French are just jealous of our love for Irish art,culture and humor. The Young Dubs seemed to be having a great time with their American fans and vice versa. Sorry, I have no capotures of their music, but it would probably blow your speakers. Maybe something by the Coors . . . another time. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:46:08 04/14/03 Mon

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