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Permit me to vent -- Surf, 11:56:02 02/10/03 Mon (pool-68-162-78-194.phil.east.verizon.net/68.162.78.194)

I'm in the middle of upgrading my vast office-plex here at Rancho Surf but I had to take the time to get back online and vent.

Dom Giordano had a GREAT quote regarding the terrorist fanatics when he called them, "Cowards in search of Eternal Erections." Now THAT sums it up.

This is how I see Saddam Hussein and why we can't contain or threaten him ...

Saddam is like the trash neighbor who is always in your face about something. Imagine Saddam living next door and threatening to kill your dog. Of course you are shocked but you point out to him that if he harms your dog you will then kill his dog. That should stop him right? Nope, Saddam then turns around and shoots his own dog. He then turns back to you and again threatens to shoot your dog.

Any country or people that thinks Saddam can be reasoned with should read the above twice. Saddam already has slaughtered his own people without losing sleep.

But there's more, it gets worse.

The fanatics, be they religious extremists, North Korea, etc., have one thing in common. They want us destroyed. Not just dead but our entire way of life, our country, our kids, everything, ... gone. They will NEVER stop, they won't ever give up trying. The only thing that can stop them is death ... theirs or ours. You make the call. Us or them. If you think the WTC was the end you're a fool.

Yesterday it was Bin Laden, this week it's Iraq, a month from now it will be Iran or North Korea. They are all the same peas in a pod (along with such "friends" as Saudi Arabia). They all want us gone, dead, destroyed. This American is sick and tired of explaining to my kids why they hate us. I'm tired of fearing for the future of my children and what kind of world they will grow up in. Why not use the full force of our military to wipe out any and all people who put us in the crosshairs? They WILL attack us, that's an absolute.

But it gets worse, there is more.

Why in the world is the Hollywood elite infested with Anti-Semites? They know for a fact the extremists want all the Jews dead. They see for themselves how women and babies have become targets, blown to shreds for no other reason than to cause fear. They have read the history and watched Schindler's List. What they can't grasp is that several hundred million nuts would like nothing better than to fire up the ovens again and wipe out Israel AND any other remaining Jews no matter where they live. Jews are targets, Jews get killed and the so called celebrities oppose wiping out the very people who have dedicated their lives to killing Jews? I don't get it. Isn't half of Hollywood run by Jews?

Maybe they think it won't happen to them.

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Replies:
- Surf, that is some serious venting! I have more. To read, click here. -- William, 14:25:53 02/12/03 Wed
- Great post, Surf. I am back from my travels. Just cleared away the snow. What's all this duct tape talk? That stuff won't even work on ducts! Still, it makes more sense than throwing 7 pebbles at a big rock in Saudi Arabia -- sort of like a rock concert without any music. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The sun came out the day I left FL), 10:01:41 02/13/03 Thu
  - SuveryGuy and Surf, here is another idea. Instead of we United States citizens cowaring in our homes behind sheets of plastic and ductape, clinging to our flashlights and our three days supplie of canned goods and water, why are we all not going out and buying guns, rifles, uzzies, Mack-10s, and assault rifles, etc., and launching neighborhood militia groups, working in coordination with the military and the state and local police, in order for be prepared to launch an offensive against al Qaeda, Hizbolla, Hamas, Iraqi secret police, and any others here on our own soil? (NT) -- William, 17:47:02 02/13/03 Thu
    - while I have no firearms at home - I always thought shotguns would be better for home defense
      I mean if someone is invading my home, a shotgun would make short work of them.
      add to which I believe shotguns have less red tape involved in their purchase...
      barring that, a short barreled lever-action rifle that takes .357 rounds... (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 01:18:33 02/24/03 Mon
  - The Police will be overwhelmed and will not respond as quickly as a well trained neighborhood, county, and state civilian militia. I already served ain Active duty service in the US military. I am willing to be an at home father and husband while being part of a local anti-terrorism rapid response assault force. Training and preparedness would include marksmanship, hand to hand combat, knife and stick fighting, communications, and group assault tactics, along with other skills. What do you think? -- William, 17:48:33 02/13/03 Thu
    - I think we should stock up on bullets to protect our homes from the looters who would emerge should anything happen. I cannot see wasting good duct tape. What does a Lugar cost these days? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:02:40 02/14/03 Fri
Does the website misrepresent Islam or doe s Islam misrepresent Islam? Note that Islam is Malis (malice?) spelled backwards. -- SurveyGuy (just stirring things up), 06:58:52 12/28/02 Sat (maxtnt06-171.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.241.171)
Islamic Group Wants Web Link Shut Down
POSTED: 11:49 a.m. EST December 27, 2002

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. -- An Islamic civil-rights organization has asked the Guilford County Republican Party to remove a link to a Web site that it says misrepresents the Islamic faith.

Click for full article

(The article mentions the site IslamExposed.Com. Is it a "hate site" or just all too accurate shedding light on more than they would want you to know. You decide.)

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Replies:
- closing ISLAMEXPOSED.com site -- abracadabra, 16:41:19 02/22/03 Sat
Snow vent -- Spock (just my 2 cents), 16:35:21 02/19/03 Wed (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
Sorry to show up only to vent, but....

WHAT IS PHILADELPHIA'S PROBLEM WITH SNOW REMOVAL?!!!

I have never lived anywhere that was so bass-ackwards in (lack-of) snow removal. OK, so they say they're spending tons of money to remove tons of snow. Just where, exactly, is this money being spent? On hot chocolate and donuts and/or pizza for the road crews? On analysis reports that say, yup, there's a lot of snow out there?

Sure, I've seen Streets Dept. vehicles out and about....doing nothing more than driving around and acknowledging, yup, there's a lot of snow that needs to be removed. In fact, as I trudged down a one-way street (because the sidewalks were impassable) on foot yesterday, a Streets Jeep came up behind me, driving the wrong way, and the guy actually rolled down his window and advised me to be careful. And when I advised him he was driving down the wrong way on a one-way street, he said, "We're just checking out the streets." This is such a great use of my taxpayer dollars, I can't even tell you. Really -- it's not printable.

I've seen lots of city plow trucks merely driving -- not plowing -- down streets that desperately need plowing. And I've seen the same kind of trucks needlessly re-"plowing" streets that are very clear already.

I work in Manayunk -- it ain't pretty there, folks. Can't find parking anywhere but places you have to pay to park in, and there are only about three streets that are actually safely navigable by car. The rest is a cross-country ski expedition.

Who's in charge of this operation? Some company that manufactures shovels and toboggans? How about, at the very least, every plow truck out there actually drop your plows and start PLOWING, huh?

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Replies:
An interesting dispassionate Middle East analysis that someone sent to me via e-mail. Just sharing. Interesting reading for some background. -- SurveyGuy, 19:17:11 02/14/03 Fri (maxtnt04-228.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.96.228)
The Region After Iraq
By Dr. George Friedman
Summary Desert Storm was about restoring the status quo ante. The 2003 war with Iraq will be about redefining the status quo in the region. Geopolitically, it will leave countries like Syria and Saudi Arabia completely surrounded by U.S. military forces and Iran partially surrounded.

It is therefore no surprise that the regional powers, regardless of their hostility to Saddam Hussein, oppose the war: They do not want to live in a post-war world in which their own power is diluted. Nor is it a surprise, after last week's events in Europe indicating that war is coming, that the regional powers -- and particularly Saudi Arabia -- are now redefining their private and public positions to the war. If the United States cannot be stopped from redefining the region, an accommodation will have to be reached.

Analysis Last week, the focus was on Europe -- where heavy U.S. pressure, coupled with the internal dynamics, generated a deep division. From the U.S. point of view, regardless of what France and Germany ultimately say about the war, these two countries no longer can claim to speak for Europe. Ultimately, for the Americans, that is sufficient.

This week, U.S. attention must shift to a much more difficult target -- the Islamic world. More precisely, it must shift to the countries bordering Iraq and others in the region as well. In many ways, this is a far more important issue than Europe. The Europeans, via multinational organizations, can provide diplomatic sanction for the invasion of Iraq. The countries around Iraq constitute an essential part of the theater of operations, potentially influencing the course of the war and even more certainly, the course of history after the war. What they have to say and, more important, what they will do, is of direct significance to the war.

As it stands at this moment, the U.S. position in the region, at the most obvious level, is tenuous at best. Six nations border Iraq: Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Of the six, only one -- Kuwait -- is unambiguously allied with the United States. The rest continue to behave ambiguously. All have flirted with the United States and provided varying degrees of overt and covert cooperation, but they have not made peace with the idea of invasion and U.S. occupation.

Of the remaining five, Turkey is by far the most cooperative. It will permit U.S. forces to continue to fly combat missions against Iraq from bases in Turkey as well as allow them to pass through Turkey and maintain some bases there. However, there is a split between the relatively new Islamist government of Turkey, which continues to be uneasy about the war, and the secular Turkish military, which is committed to extensive cooperation. And apart from Kuwait, Turkey is the best case. Each of the other countries is even more conflicted and negative toward an invasion.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Iran are very different countries and have different reasons for arriving at their positions. They each have had very different experiences with Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Iran fought a brutal war with Iraq during the 1980s -- a war initiated by the Iraqis and ruinous to Iran. Hussein is despised by Iranians, who continue to support anti-Hussein exiles. Tehran certainly is tempted by the idea of a defeated Iraq. It also is tempted by the idea of a dismembered Iraq that never again could threaten Iran, and where Iran could gain dominance over its Shiite regions. Tehran certainly has flirted with Washington and particularly with London on various levels of cooperation, and clearly has provided some covert intelligence cooperation to the United States and Britain. In the end, though -- however attractive the collapse of Iraq might be -- internal politics and strategic calculations have caused Iranian leaders to refuse to sanction the war or to fully participate. Iran might be prepared to pick up some of the spoils, but only after the war is fought.

Syria stands in a similar relation to Iraq. The Assad family despises the Husseins, ideologically, politically and personally. Syria sided openly with the United States in 1991. Hussein's demise would cause no grief in Damascus. Yet, in spite of a flirtation with Britain in particular -- including a visit with both Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles for Syrian President Assad -- Syria has not opted in for the war.

Nor have the Jordanians -- at least not publicly. There are constant reports of U.S. (and Israeli) special operations troops operating out of Jordan. U.S. Marines have trained during the past month in Jordan, but the government remains officially opposed to the war -- and what support it will give, it will give only covertly.

Finally, there is Saudi Arabia, which has been one of the pillars of U.S. power in the region since the 1950s and which has, in turn, depended on Washington for survival against both Arab radicals and Iraq itself. The Saudis have been playing the most complex game of all, cooperating on some levels openly, cooperating on other levels covertly, while opposing the war publicly.

For all of the diversity in the region, there is a common geopolitical theme. If the U.S. invasion is successful, Washington intends to occupy Iraq militarily, and it officially expects to remain there for at least 18 months -- or to be more honest, indefinitely. The United States will build air bases and deploy substantial ground forces -- and, rather than permit the disintegration of Iraq, will create a puppet government underwritten by U.S. power.

On the day the war ends, and if the United States is victorious, then the entire geopolitics of the region will be redefined.

Every country bordering Iraq will find not the weakest formations of the Iraqi army along their frontiers, but U.S. and British troops. The United States will be able to reach into any country in the region with covert forces based in Iraq, and Washington could threaten overt interventions as well. It would need no permission from regional hosts for the use of facilities, so long as either Turkey or Kuwait will permit transshipment into Iraq. In short, a U.S. victory will change the entire balance of power in the region, from a situation in which the United States must negotiate its way to war, to a situation where the United States is free to act as it will.

Consider the condition of Syria. It might not have good relations with Hussein's Iraq, but a U.S.-occupied Iraq would be Syria's worst nightmare. It would be surrounded on all sides by real or potential enemies -- Israel, Turkey, Jordan and the United States - and, in the Mediterranean, by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. Syria -- which traditionally has played a subtle, complex balancing game between various powers -- would find itself in a vise, no longer able to guarantee its national security except through accommodating the United States.

A similar situation is shaping up for Saudi Arabia. The United States is operating extensively in Yemen; it also has air force facilities in Qatar and naval facilities in Bahrain. U.S. B-1 bombers and some personnel are going to be based in Oman. The United States has established itself along the littoral of the Arabian peninsula. With U.S. forces deployed along the Saudi- Iraqi border, and with U.S. domination of the Red Sea and Persian Gulf, the Saudis will be in essence surrounded.

The same basic problem exists for Iran, although on a less threatening scale. Iran is larger, more populated and more difficult to intimidate. Nevertheless, with at least some U.S. forces in Afghanistan -- and the option for introducing more always open -- and U.S. forces in Iraq and the Persian Gulf, the Iranians too find themselves surrounded, albeit far less overwhelmingly than would be the case for Syria or Saudi Arabia.

The only probable winners would be Turkey, which would lay claim to the oil fields around Mosul and Kirkuk; Jordan, whose security would be enhanced by U.S. forces to the east; and Kuwait, which is betting heavily on a quick U.S. victory and a prolonged presence in the region.

If we consider the post-Iraq war world, it is no surprise that the regional response ranges from publicly opposed and privately not displeased to absolute opposition. Certainly, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran have nothing to gain from a war that will be shaped entirely by the United States. Each understands that the pressure from the United States to cooperate in the war against al Qaeda will be overwhelming, potentially irresistible and politically destabilizing. This is not the world in which they want to live.

Add to this the obvious fact of oil, and the dilemma becomes clear. The United States is not invading Iraq for oil: If oil was on Washington's mind, it would invade Venezuela, whose crisis has posed a more serious oil problem for the United States than Iraq could. Nevertheless, Washington expects to pay for the reconstruction of Iraq from oil revenues, and there will be no reason to limit Iraqi production. This cannot make either Riyadh or Tehran happy, since it will drive prices down and increase competition for market share.

Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria have every reason to oppose a war in Iraq. The consequences of such a war will undermine their national interests. They were depending on Europe's ability to block the war, but that strategy has failed. The Saudis and Syrians then launched into an attempt to find a political solution that would prevent a U.S. occupation of Iraq. That centered around either Hussein's voluntary resignation and exile, or a coup in Baghdad that would produce a new government -- one that would cooperate fully with weapons inspectors, and remove the U.S. justification for occupation.

This attempt, in collaboration with other regional powers and countries like Germany and Russia, is still under way. The problem is that Hussein has little motivation to resign, and his security forces remain effective. Hussein apparently still is not convinced that the United States will invade, or that he will be defeated. His seems to assume that, if his troops can inflict some casualties on U.S. forces, then the United States will accept a cease-fire without toppling him. He will not abdicate, nor will his followers overthrow him, until those two assumptions are falsified. What that means is that the United States still would occupy Iraq militarily, even if there was a coup or resignation as the campaign unfolded.

If you can't beat them, join them. The European split -- and the real possibility that France and Germany ultimately will endorse war in some way -- mean that war cannot be prevented. Hussein will not abdicate or be overthrown until the war is well under way. Therefore, it is highly likely that the war will take place, the United States will occupy Iraq and that the map of the Middle East will change profoundly.

Continued opposition to the war, particularly from Riyadh's standpoint, makes little sense. The issue until now has been to cope with the internal political challenges that have arisen in the kingdom since Sept. 11, 2001. After the Iraq war, this issue will be supplemented by the question of how the United States regards the kingdom. It is not prudent for a nation surrounded by a much more powerful nation to allow itself to be regarded as an enemy. Therefore, we are witnessing a shift in the Saudi position that might evolve to reluctant, public support for the war by the time an attack is launched.

Iranian leaders do not feel themselves to be quite in such desperate straits -- since they are not. However, the presence of U.S. power on Iran's borders will create an urgent need to settle the internal disputes that divide the country. The need to do so, however, does not guarantee a successful outcome. The division between those who feel that an opening to the United States is essential and those who feel that protecting Iran against the United States is paramount might become exacerbated and destabilize the country. However, there is no immediate, overt threat to Iran, although the possibilities for covert operations increase dramatically.

Jordan will do well, but Syria's future is cloudier. Washington has concerns about Syria's long-term commitment to U.S. interests, and Damascus might find itself squeezed unbearably. Turkey will fatten on oil and manage the Kurds as it has done in the past. But nothing will be the same after this war. Unlike Desert Storm, which was about restoring the status quo ante, this war is about establishing an entirely new reality.

The United States is, of course, well-aware that its increased presence in the region will result in greater hostility and increased paramilitary activity against U.S. forces there. However, the U.S. view is that this rising cost is acceptable so long as Washington is able to redefine the behavior of countries neighboring Iraq. In the long run, the Bush administration believes, geopolitical power will improve U.S. security interests in spite of growing threats. To be more precise, the United States sees Islamic hostility at a certain level as a given, and does not regard an increase in that hostility as materially affecting its interests.

The conquest of Iraq will not be a minor event in history: It will represent the introduction of a new imperial power to the Middle East and a redefinition of regional geopolitics based on that power. The United States will move from being an outside power influencing events through coalitions, to a regional power that is able to operate effectively on its own. Most significant, countries like Saudi Arabia and Syria will be living in a new and quite unpleasant world.

Therefore, it is not difficult to understand why the regional powers are behaving as they are. The disintegration of the European bloc has, however, left them in an untenable position. The United States will occupy Iraq, and each regional power is now facing that reality. Unable to block the process, they are reluctantly and unhappily finding ways to accustom themselves to it.

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Replies:
- You got some serious connections SG. It looks like the all the Islamofascists hate each other and the only time they agree on is hating Jews and the US.. Do you have any more info on the Syria Iraq rift? (NT) -- Chez, 12:38:42 02/15/03 Sat
  - No connections. I hate when people send me stuff with no citation. However, this was the first short overview of the whole region that I had seen anyone attempt, so I posted it. If any disagree or agree with the author's assessment of any component, please feel free to comment or amplify. The world is indeed a strange place. My position is that it is high time to get off of oil dependency and develop other power sources. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (wishing for a car with a cold fusion engine - I can dream), 13:11:24 02/15/03 Sat
- SurveyGuy, Chez, et al, here is the source of the article: It is written by George Friedman, as the article states. George Friedman is associated with "Stratfor" which is a private intelligence agency. They have a web site and an information subscription service which offers various subscription level, such as; basic, premium, etc. You can visit their website at: STRATFOR.COM (NT) -- William, 16:58:47 02/15/03 Sat
  - That makes sense. I got it from an attorney I know in Washington, D.C. who has many corporate friends among his acquaintances. This was probably a premium report. I can see how such knowledge could be helpful in corporate planning. Now if we could just find a way to make it snow like this in the middle east. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:25:16 02/17/03 Mon
"Forces of Reaction" - perhaps he has a point..... -- H_Bergeron, 03:09:35 02/14/03 Fri (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
CHEW ON THIS

Saddam's crimes, al Qaeda massacres, Kurdish freedom, oil worth fighting for...
and a few other things Seattle's potlucking peaceniks might want to think about this weekend.

by Christopher Hitchens

Dear brothers and sisters, boys and girls, comrades and friends,

The editor of this rag told me of your upcoming "Potlucks for Peace" event
and invited my comments, and at first I couldn't think of a thing to say.
For one thing, why should I address a Seattle audience
(or even suppose that I have a Seattle audience, for that matter)?
I daresay that I can claim a tenuous connection, because I have always had a good crowd
when reading at the splendid bookstores of the city,
and because it was in Seattle that I stayed when grounded on September 11, 2001,
a date that now makes some people yawn.

I had been speaking to the students of Whitman College in Walla Walla
about the crimes of Henry Kissinger and had told them that 11 September--
which was then tomorrow--was a symbolic date.

On that day in 1973, the civilian government in Chile
had been drowned in blood by an atrocious military coup.
On the same day in 2001, a group of Chilean survivors proposed
to file a lawsuit against Kissinger in a federal court in Washington, D.C.
I showed a film illustrating this, made some additional remarks,
and closed by saying that the date would be long remembered
in the annals of the struggle for human rights.

I got some pretty decent applause--
and this from the alma mater of Henry "Scoop" Jackson, whose family was present.

On the following morning I got a very early call from my wife, who was three hours ahead of me.
She told me to turn on the TV, and she commented mordantly that the anti-Kissinger campaign
might have to be on hold for a while.
(Oddly enough, and as recent events have shown, she was mistaken about that.)
Everyone knows what I saw when I turned on the TV.

Now hear this.
Ever since that morning, the United States has been at war with the forces of reaction.
May I please entreat you to reread the preceding sentence?
Or perhaps you will let me restate it for emphasis.
The government and people of these United States are now at war with the forces of reaction.

read the rest of the article here

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Replies:
Human Shield Tour 2003 -- H_Bergeron, 23:53:30 02/10/03 Mon (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)

Human Shield Tour

Are you a mindless vapid entertainer who wants to give peace a chance?
Do you hate the United States and think it is the cause of all the problems in the world?
Do you think that Hillary Clinton is the smartest woman in the world?
Do you think Rosie O'Donnell isn't a man? Do you hate nuclear power?
Do you think that George Bush was selected, not elected?
Do you think that Bill Clinton was the best president this country has ever had?
Do you think that this thing with Iraq is all about oil?
Do you think that Jimmy Carter should be sent to Iraq to negotiate?

If you answered yes to any of those questions,
then do we have a deal for you!
Leaving on February 15 is the Human Shield Tour of Iraq. Included in the tour:
- Deluxe accomodations at the Saddam Hussein Best Eastern Hotel for 21 glorious nights.
  (Trip may be extended due to airspace filled with US military aircraft)
- A complimentary copy of the Guardian
  delivered to your room every morning.
- Daily tours of baby food factories, fake military emplacements,
  and fake chemical and biological factories.
- Possible nightly fireworks displays around February 28.
- A personal audience with Saddam Hussein
  (or one of his many doubles).
- A chance to mingle with celebrities like Susan Sarandon, Dave Matthews,
  Sean Penn, Woody Harrelson, Mike Farrell,and other well known entertainers.
  Who knows? There may be some surprise guests, like Barbra Streisand or Michael Moore.
- pa turnpike and the puppet master -- mike, 10:07:22 02/12/03 Wed (haz-354.ddisp.net/65.213.87.114)
  after finding out that mitch rubin was named chairman of the turnpike commission i had to wonder why a person who discriminates against disabled people and who retaliates against injured workers would be named chairman.i guess the only credentials you need is how to kiss vince fumos butt.mitch rubin is just another puppet for vince fumo to control.i hope the public gets to read the truth about rubin.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- Tracing the trail of the anti-US demonstrations sponsors -- William, 09:28:27 01/24/03 Fri (cache-mtc-ah04.proxy.aol.com/64.12.96.169)
  
  Who Pays For These Demonstrations?
  By Stephen Schwartz
  FrontPageMagazine.com - January 24, 2003
  
  Both before and after the latest round of so-called peace demonstrations, many respected liberals, leftists, and pacifists have expressed their concern over the events? control by a tiny Stalinist cult, the "Workers World Party" or WWP. WWP created International A.N.S.W.E.R., the umbrella group for the protests, and WWP leaders, posing as peace activists, have gained extraordinary media access in recent weeks. In addition, the group manipulates former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark as a pliable puppet, in an effort to gain respectability.
  
  The despicable record of WWP in promoting Stalinist and fascist dictators is old news. WWP, the patron of International A.N.S.W.E.R., is on record supporting:
  
  * The pitiless massacre of Chinese protestors by the armed forces in Tiananmen in 1989. WWP states, "troops were issued arms? after some students took some soldiers hostage. On June 4, [1989], the demonstration changed from a peaceful protest to violent attacks on the soldiers? events were a battle ? not a massacre." Everybody in the world knows this is a disgusting lie.
  
  * The dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, among whose defenders WWP are doubtless the most fawning. Their newspaper, also titled Workers World, wrote gleefully, in 2001, "more and more countries had begun individually breaking the ban on flights and other sanctions against Iraq." Right: countries with an equally bad or worse record, like Yugoslavia, which supply Iraq with illegal chemical, biological, and other weapons.
  
  *The evil regime of crazed North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il. WWP hack Deidre Griswold, who has been shoveling this manure for some 35 years, recently wrote, from the Communist hell itself, "People here in the socialist north of Korea are well aware of U.S. President George W. Bush's remarks branding their country as part of an ?Axis of Evil.? It has in no way dampened their ardor for their independent socialist system? Koreans today are celebrating? the continuity of leadership represented by unity around Kim Jong Il, who is pledged to follow the course of national independence and socialist construction charted by Kim Il Sung? the North Korean socialist system, which has kept it from falling under the sway of the transnational banks and corporations that dictate to most of the world." No mention here of the numerous individuals and families that have risked their lives and those of their relatives to escape the reality of North Korean socialism, or of North Korean international weapons sales, kidnapping of foreign nationals, terrorist attacks, or other details.
  
  *In one of its most disgusting, and continuous, displays of admiration for genocidal fascists, WWP, the leaders of International A.N.S.W.E.R. are prominent defenders of indicted Serbian war criminal Slobodan Milosevic. When the trial of Milosevic began last year at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague, Netherlands. The International Action Center (IAC), predecessor of International A.N.S.W.E.R, "sent a delegation to take part in activities showing solidarity with the defendant and opposing the ?trial? as a NATO frame up." They declared, "Washington and its NATO allies hopes (sic) to pin the guilt for the 10 years of civil war in the Balkans on the Yugoslav leader." Who in the world, aside from fevered extremists, believes this swill? WWP has also published expensive volumes defending Milosevic.
  
  Never mind that these Stalinist rodents see no inconsistency in acclaiming Saddam, who claims the title "sword of Islam," and Milosevic, whose terror took the lives of hundreds of thousands of Balkan Muslims. The peace parasites of WWP are thrilled to kiss the shoes of bloodthirsty tyrants like Saddam, Kim, and Milosevic, and then have the nerve to repeat moronic chants, in the streets of our cities, charging President Bush with genocide!
  
  Numerous liberals, leftists, and pacifists have correctly questioned the morality of joining such vermin in their parades. Nevertheless, the main question has yet to be posed: Who pays for the Workers World Party, its weekly tabloid, its website, books, speaking tours, and other extensive activities? Whose money keeps their "Korea Peace Commission," and "Independent Commission of Inquiry to Investigate US/NATO War Crimes Against the People of Yugoslavia" going?
  
  WWP is a minuscule Stalinist group. It does not command thousands of members or control major labor unions. Yet for many years groups of its leading members have constantly flown back and forth to Pyongyang and Baghdad, with side visits to Cuba and other isolated Stalinist territories, staying in hotels and traveling around in "solidarity." Who subsidizes "peace" activities that, regardless of the apparent sincerity of many marchers, aim to defend monsters like Saddam and Kim? Who foots the bill for WWP and its acolytes to assist Milosevic in the dock?
  
  Any normal citizen should wonder whether this "peace" movement is not, in fact, directly funded and controlled by Saddam and Kim. Unfortunately, most Americans have forgotten that, before 1941, Hitler, Mussolini, and the Japanese militarists bankrolled similar "peace movements" in the U.S., and that the Soviet Communist Party paid for such propaganda for years and years.
  
  We know who stands behind International A.N.S.W.E.R.: the mindless totalitarians of the WWP. Who stands behind them? Americans have a right to know, and if these phony peaceniks really desire respectability, they should be willing to publicly account for their financing, especially for air travel and hotel hospitality enjoyed while they serve as camouflage tourists in states committed to terrorism.
  
  There can be no place in the United States for "peace" activism bought and paid for by the evildoers.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - I have a pretty complete list of those 'sponsors', if you're interested. It's pretty telling. (NT) -- JL, 17:49:18 02/08/03 Sat
    - JL, I'd love to see your list. Thank you. (NT) -- William, 01:50:56 02/09/03 Sun
      - Hi William ... -- JL, 15:04:39 02/09/03 Sun
- Test Tude Society" to be syndicated ... KANTOR Radio talk Show -- Mark Spiewak, pascal Communications, 14:05:37 02/08/03 Sat (LIBRARY11.client.mscd.edu/147.153.52.40)
  Hi,
  My name is Mark Speiwak and I'm a writer, critic and multimedia artist/musician.
  I'm enclosing my article here called "Test Tude Society" to be syndicated soon on many Radio Talk shows and et cetera...
  Thought you might be interested in publishing it on your websites, content providers.
  Though your audience might really like it.
  
  Very Truly Yours,
  
  Mark Spiewak.
  http://www.up.to/kantor
  
  "Test Tube Society"
  by
  Mark Spiewak.
  
  Thus spoke Zarathusta:
  
  God is dead...
  Nietsche
  
  There is a crowd of infertile women out there, screaming for more intimacy with their partners. Let's make a game more visible.
  Lots of relationships between women and men end up �cause of infertility.
  Some take an approach of adoption. Some split. Therefore someone is in a tremendous pain, sometimes both separated partners.
  Most likely, the biggest pain lies on woman which
  leads to personal crisis.
  
  I didn't have a sex for last nine months and this fact upsets me. I look to a cause of it and see that it's because of my socio-political outlook. I strive for independence which is pretty normal. However I blame the security system for its corrupted existence.
  So I'm being controlled by cops and undercover. Women
  actually are scared to resist them and tell them to go take themselves.
  But some are not...
  For example, few days ago I did a poetry slam at local
  coffee shop. It went pretty good, except for a lady's
  encounter with undercover cops after I left.
  After my poetry performance on stage, I happen to make a friend with an older than me lady. Her name is Liz. She's maybe seven or ten years older than me. That's not a point.
  The point here is that Liz is mature. Most of women I met don't know what to talk about or don't want to for some reason, or can�t behave.
  My new friend, Liz, and me developed a perfect communication and became new friends.
  We exchanged contact numbers and I gave her a copy of my poem I recited that night on stage. She liked that. But cops or censorship didn't.
  When I was gone, as I was told, the undercover cops walked over to Liz and told her to give them my poem to them.
  "Do you want to talk to my attorney?" Liz asked.
  Bah!!!
  That's my favor woman ever, hero!
  I never heard of anything like that before. That's the first woman, actually, since twenty years that showed a fist to my competition. I wrote "competition" because a lot of cops and undercovers work in entertainment industry. Most producers don't mind working with cops, just for reason of financial support to produce a movie or cabaret show.
  So I'm looking ahead to meet Liz again.
  But there are women out there, bunch of them, I mean a bunch of trash women, that never even raised a finger on undercover cop. They are scarred to loose a lot of business connections.
  Therefore I find myself in a leap and don't have a sex or mutual relationship. I don't want a dog. I want woman, normal woman. For this kind of situation creates sort of crisis for me.
  Than I'm a little upset here and yell my statements on all sorts of people, including City Mayor, President Bush or any innocent animal on the streets. But I don't kill. They also kill.
  Same situation is with infertile women. I mean I can get to a point that I understand a pain woman feels from rejection based on infertility.
  Are most lesbians infertile women?
  Actually, a lot of lesbians are infertile women. And lots of lesbians and gays and straight people live the fact that their kids will be born with some kind of defects. Most ikely those are frequent mental defects than physical.
  Science is remarkable.
  nd business or business of science is even more remarkable.
  Thanks to science and advanced bio-technology we, infertile humans, can still bring new humans to this planet. If woman is infertile or have a chance of miscarriage, advanced medicine comes in hand for a family to be completed. Nine months later, a new human is born. But!
  But it's of sure speculation that there will be abnormalities in a new human development. Sooner or later someone down the road in a genetic lineage will come out with serious defects that, that's a must awareness, will effect not only genetics of human population but also socio-psychology of us.
  Therefore I say in one of my poems:
  
  "I don't want babies from test tube,...".
  
  Then how far can we go from here? Is there any cure for infertility? Is there any cure for socio-psychological risis? Maybe we can give a credit to ancient medicine. But for sure, we must give a moral and ethical impact and outlook on future society, thus civilization.
  
  I, I, I don't want babies from test tube,
  
  I don't want pills from space stations,
  
  Chickens and cows
  
  Shall we have blood type not from,
  
  We are sick and tired of TV
  
  And genetic food...
  
  They import organs from dead bodies
  
  From Africa and Siberia
  
  No wonder AIDS is eating our Society, Thus
  
  Civilization
  
  Mark Spiewak
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - Nietsche is dead ... God (NT) -- JL (Sheesh! What's going on around here?), 15:48:34 02/08/03 Sat
  - Read it, absorb it you want to take the time, this gets nuked soon, its going around lots of boards. (NT) -- Surf, 13:49:40 02/09/03 Sun
- Here is an example of what some people think about the United States and the war which has not actually happened, Bush, Democrats and Republicans, etc. -- William, 07:09:34 01/23/03 Thu (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)
  I found this on an internet forum I visited which was related to a meditation group I was once involved in.
  
  Although it is supposed to deal with the teacher and topics related to that meditation and group, some people make comments related to politics. I have found that these comments are always one sided.
  
  I get a bit peeved at the immaturity and lack of vision and lack of logic that I see.
  
  I am interested in your opinions.
  
  Here is an example:
  
  from 01/21/03
  
  Hi Livia,
  
  I'm surprised at my own reaction to this part of your post:
  
  "Same thing's happening in America which started out as a fantastic idea and with the best of intentions. Now they're the most powerful nation in the history of the world but paranoid as hell and losing the plot fast"
  
  I'm wondering if this past weekends deomonstrations were shown on TV in your part of the world? They were multi-city and the largest since the Viet Nam war.
  
  Right now living in the U.S., for me, is like living under a dictatorship. When one party rules the White House and Congress, and that party's main agenda is to make money from oil and large defence and pharmaceuticals, then things turn upside down. Now we have a president who was elected by less than honest means and allowed to take office by the Supreme Court.
  
  The Democratic party does not play down and dirty like the Republican party, IMO. What you are not hearing is the ground swell of people. both Republican and Democratic that have had enough of this war mongering and the economy going to hell in a hand basket. Everyday it seems there's thousands more lain off from jobs never thought possible. It doesn't get the headlines because the White House spin doctors keep Iraq there.
  
  There was a special on last week about the working poor in this country. Honestly, it was impossible to sit with a dry eye. Honest, hardworking people can't even feed their families anymore. They have been reduced to standing for hours on end, with families in tow, in free food handout lines. Teenagers were interviewed and asked how they were able to keep concentration on studies when they only had one meal a day.
  
  My mother passed away last year and we just settled the small estate she had. It was a vineyard left to her and her siblings. It's value was one fifth of what it was ten years ago. The farmers are pulling out beautiful orchards and vineyards because there is no profit. Most fruit is now imported from out of the country! Mind boggling.
  
  So the point I'm making is, the average American has not lost the plot nor the reason for living in this democracy. Quite the contrary. It's when the fundamentals that this country was based on get violated we end up with a fanatical President and Cabinet, who refuse to listen to the people they represent.
  
  When bodies start coming home in bags, there's going to be sparks like we haven't seen since Berkeley in the 60's.
  
  I guess that's what it always comes down to. The real agenda of the Bush administration is being kept from us just as Rawat's. It takes decent people to have the common decency to say "No, this is not right and I won't support it."
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - LMAO!!!!! Are they linked to the DU? Whatever we provide them, they want more, more, MORE. How nice of them to wish us distress in the upcoming, NECESSARY war. Typical Demoncrat BS. Ellen RATner has said so much and was 'caught' on it by Rita Cosby. (NT) -- JL (try having any sort of discourse anywhere else), 18:26:28 02/08/03 Sat
- Woe to be black and not support black victimhood, to encourage personal responsiblity, to oppose reparations, and to have what are called Conservative values. -- William, 00:20:03 08/15/02 Thu (spider-wi081.proxy.aol.com/205.188.197.56)
  
  Doctor Thomas Sowell; Doctor Walter Williams; Larry Elder - talk show host - Attorney, and commentary writer; Ward Connerly, California State Representative; Niger Inis, J C Watts, State of Oklahoma Representative in Congress, Armstrong Williams, Condaleeza Rice, and other blacks have been raked over the coals for their not so popular opinions and somewhat conservative actions and points of view.
  
  Another black person who has been the subject of character assassination and personal attacks is Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson.
  
  Recently there was a debate held at the annual convention of the National Association of Black Journalists in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in which Rev. Peterson was invited to represent the side opposing reparations to blacks for slavery.
  
  Reverend Peterson became the object of racial epithets, personal attacks, and ridicule.
  
  I read about the incident at this debate regarding the case for or against reparations and how Rev Peterson was abused by the black journalists and other black leaders at the debate for taking a stand against reparations and other not-so-popular opinions.
  
  Here I found Rev. Peterson's own account and points regarding this debate, his treatment, and the reaction of those in attendance from his experience and his perspective.
  
  Threatening the power of the black elite August 14, 2002
  
  By Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
  
  This past week, I debated Professor Michael E. Dyson on "The Case For/Against Reparations for African Americans" at the annual convention of the National Association of Black Journalists in Milwaukee. Condace Pressley, president of the NABJ, had invited me to participate in this forum to argue against reparations.
  
  The debate was poorly organized and unfairly administered from the start. Professor Dyson arrived 30 to 40 minutes late, yet was given both the opening and closing statements. And he received overwhelming applause from an audience of nearly 300 (liberal) black journalists, even though the main thrust behind his words were personal attacks against me. He and others called me "ignorant" and I was labeled the "white man's boy."
  
  As he wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times of the debate later, "If you've ever wondered what a self-hating black man who despises black culture and worships at the altar of whiteness looks like, take a gander at the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson."
  
  In my opening remarks, I stated that black Americans don't need reparations, that instead what they need are intact, two-parent homes with good fathers leading them. I stressed that blacks are suffering nowadays primarily due to the lack of moral character and not due to racism. I also stressed that education is important, but it will not repair the moral and physical damage that has taken place over the last 40 years at the behest of the fraudulent civil-rights leaders.
  
  My words were met by the crowd of black journalists with boos, jeers and laughter. This was curious to me, because I always thought that the responsibility of a journalist is to be objective and look at both sides of an issue. But these "journalists" instead attempted to degrade me because my point of view did not align with their motives.
  
  During the question-and-answer portion of the debate, Vernon Jarrett, a founder and former president of the NABJ approached the microphone. He scornfully asked me, "Are you for real? Do you believe what you're saying? You're just a pawn of the white man. You have this little white boy [indicating my assistant] running around passing out your newsletters."
  
  I answered the man's insulting comments this way, "I'm saddened by your statements, because you're an old fool, you have no wisdom. Normally older people gain wisdom." I then had my assistant, Doug, who actually is a light-skinned black man, stand up so the audience would see him.
  
  Mr. Jarrett answered, "Don't get me started ? I'll talk about your mama!" This from a man billed as one of the nation's foremost media commentators on race. Amazing.
  
  Michael Dyson is popular amongst most blacks because he uses his pedestal as an "educated" man to justify blacks' rage and hatred, and never demands that blacks take responsibility for themselves and their own failures and character flaws. The agenda of many of the black "journalists" in attendance at this debate is clearly more important than the truth and, because they are without the truth, the best they can counter my words with are personal attacks, boos and degrading laughter rather than facts and real solutions.
  
  I pose a threat to Professor Dyson and these black journalists because I don't hate whites and I call on others to do the same. Dyson knows that if blacks overcome their anger, then they'll no longer listen to him and he'll lose his influence. It's no wonder, then, that Dyson attacked me as he did ? he and these black journalists tried to squash any threat whatsoever to their power base, and there is nothing more sacred to elite blacks than their own personal wealth and power.
  
  Unfortunately for them, I'm still here. And as long as I am, I will continue to fight for the well being of all people ? a battle that will forever threaten the power of those like Michael Dyson and the National Association of Black Journalists.
  
  The Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson is founder and president of BOND, the Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny. He is currently on a national "Stop Reparations Now!" speaking tour. The Rev. Peterson is the author of the widely acclaimed book, "From Rage To Responsibility," and is a nationally syndicated radio host. To contact Rev. Peterson, e-mail him at bond@bondinfo.org or call 1-800-411-BOND (2663).
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - FYI -- Joel, 17:41:43 01/23/03 Thu
  - I heard Peterson being interviewed by someone - I forget who (maybe JEff Katz or Dom G.) and he is a very soft-spoken man with no vitriol for those who attack him. If more blacks would listen to men like him and follow through, they would all be better off. (NT) -- SG, 07:44:43 01/25/03 Sat
  - Reverend Peterson is a great man. And a REAL reverend. (NT) -- JL, 18:13:31 02/08/03 Sat
- Does anybody remember this incident? -- Vincent, 11:21:13 02/05/03 Wed (NoHost/205.147.242.4)
  
  Did they ever find out the "who" and the "why" that politically connected blatantly homosexual dentist from Society Hill was murdered in his car outside the city of Philadelphia? I believe the killer(s) torched his car after they shot him.
  
  It was all over the local news and they kept playing tapes of this guy singing Judy Garland songs at parties attended by the rich and famous of Philadelphia. Just curious. If the police resolved this case I didn't hear about it.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - I remember it. Nothing publicized about catching anyone that I recall. Does that mean that we only have to worry if we are weird homosexual dentists who annoy people by singing Judy Garland songs? Talk about a stereotype! That guy was a characature of himself! Are you still in Florida, Vince? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:09:19 02/05/03 Wed
  - Vincent, I remember that incident also but I do not know what became of that case either. If you are in Florida, in which part are you located? (NT) -- William, 04:34:41 02/08/03 Sat
  - Vince, here is a bit more on that Dr. Stephen Grosse murder case but it does not resolve the case -- William, 04:46:28 02/08/03 Sat
    - Thanks for the input guys. It is just curious that as big a stink that was made over this nothing has been resolved. I'm not the Vincent from Florida. (NT) -- Vincent, 09:47:22 02/08/03 Sat
- Why we know Iraq is lying - article by Condoleezza Rice -- William, 09:15:32 01/24/03 Fri (cache-mtc-ah04.proxy.aol.com/64.12.96.169)
  
  Why We Know Iraq Is Lying
  
  By CONDOLEEZZA RICE - NY Times
  
  WASHINGTON
  
  Eleven weeks after the United Nations Security Council unanimously passed a resolution demanding ? yet again ? that Iraq disclose and disarm all its nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs, it is appropriate to ask, "Has Saddam Hussein finally decided to voluntarily disarm?" Unfortunately, the answer is a clear and resounding no.
  
  There is no mystery to voluntary disarmament. Countries that decide to disarm lead inspectors to weapons and production sites, answer questions before they are asked, state publicly and often the intention to disarm and urge their citizens to cooperate. The world knows from examples set by South Africa, Ukraine and Kazakhstan what it looks like when a government decides that it will cooperatively give up its weapons of mass destruction. The critical common elements of these efforts include a high-level political commitment to disarm, national initiatives to dismantle weapons programs, and full cooperation and transparency.
  
  In 1989 South Africa made the strategic decision to dismantle its covert nuclear weapons program. It destroyed its arsenal of seven weapons and later submitted to rigorous verification by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Inspectors were given complete access to all nuclear facilities (operating and defunct) and the people who worked there. They were also presented with thousands of documents detailing, for example, the daily operation of uranium enrichment facilities as well as the construction and dismantling of specific weapons.
  
  Ukraine and Kazakhstan demonstrated a similar pattern of cooperation when they decided to rid themselves of the nuclear weapons, intercontinental ballistic missiles and heavy bombers inherited from the Soviet Union. With significant assistance from the United States ? warmly accepted by both countries ? disarmament was orderly, open and fast. Nuclear warheads were returned to Russia. Missile silos and heavy bombers were destroyed or dismantled ? once in a ceremony attended by the American and Russian defense chiefs. In one instance, Kazakhstan revealed the existence of a ton of highly enriched uranium and asked the United States to remove it, lest it fall into the wrong hands.
  
  Iraq's behavior could not offer a starker contrast. Instead of a commitment to disarm, Iraq has a high-level political commitment to maintain and conceal its weapons, led by Saddam Hussein and his son Qusay, who controls the Special Security Organization, which runs Iraq's concealment activities. Instead of implementing national initiatives to disarm, Iraq maintains institutions whose sole purpose is to thwart the work of the inspectors. And instead of full cooperation and transparency, Iraq has filed a false declaration to the United Nations that amounts to a 12,200-page lie.
  
  For example, the declaration fails to account for or explain Iraq's efforts to get uranium from abroad, its manufacture of specific fuel for ballistic missiles it claims not to have, and the gaps previously identified by the United Nations in Iraq's accounting for more than two tons of the raw materials needed to produce thousands of gallons of anthrax and other biological weapons.
  
  Iraq's declaration even resorted to unabashed plagiarism, with lengthy passages of United Nations reports copied word-for-word (or edited to remove any criticism of Iraq) and presented as original text. Far from informing, the declaration is intended to cloud and confuse the true picture of Iraq's arsenal. It is a reflection of the regime's well-earned reputation for dishonesty and constitutes a material breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441, which set up the current inspections program.
  
  Unlike other nations that have voluntarily disarmed ? and in defiance of Resolution 1441 ? Iraq is not allowing inspectors "immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted access" to facilities and people involved in its weapons program. As a recent inspection at the home of an Iraqi nuclear scientist demonstrated, and other sources confirm, material and documents are still being moved around in farcical shell games. The regime has blocked free and unrestricted use of aerial reconnaissance.
  
  The list of people involved with weapons of mass destruction programs, which the United Nations required Iraq to provide, ends with those who worked in 1991 ? even though the United Nations had previously established that the programs continued after that date. Interviews with scientists and weapons officials identified by inspectors have taken place only in the watchful presence of the regime's agents. Given the duplicitous record of the regime, its recent promises to do better can only be seen as an attempt to stall for time.
  
  Last week's finding by inspectors of 12 chemical warheads not included in Iraq's declaration was particularly troubling. In the past, Iraq has filled this type of warhead with sarin ? a deadly nerve agent used by Japanese terrorists in 1995 to kill 12 Tokyo subway passengers and sicken thousands of others. Richard Butler, the former chief United Nations arms inspector, estimates that if a larger type of warhead that Iraq has made and used in the past were filled with VX (an even deadlier nerve agent) and launched at a major city, it could kill up to one million people. Iraq has also failed to provide United Nations inspectors with documentation of its claim to have destroyed its VX stockpiles.
  
  Many questions remain about Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and arsenal ? and it is Iraq's obligation to provide answers. It is failing in spectacular fashion. By both its actions and its inactions, Iraq is proving not that it is a nation bent on disarmament, but that it is a nation with something to hide. Iraq is still treating inspections as a game. It should know that time is running out.
  
  Condoleezza Rice is the national security adviser.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- Interesting to read the divergent views in this article ... what is your take? Has anyone been forthcoming about the "real" reasons? Hmmm? -- SurveyGuy, 11:35:13 01/22/03 Wed (maxtnt03-178.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.230.178)
  http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p01s03-usgn.html
  White teachers flee black schools
  Some see exodus in South as a new form of segregation.
  By Patrik Jonsson | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
  
  Certain neighborhoods in the South are weathering a new version of an old phenomenon: white flight.
  
  Across the region, white, often middle-class, teachers are leaving schools dominated by African-Americans almost as fast as they arrive. Many are moving to school districts with smaller populations of blacks, new studies show.
  
  Critics see the exodus as a new form of segregation, encouraged by court rulings that no longer enforce racial diversity. But teachers say that cultural and economic barriers, not racial ones, are fueling the trend in a region where more than 40 percent of the public school population is black.
  
  At the very least, the growing shortage of white educators is creating a dilemma for black schools from Picayune County, Miss., to Decatur, Ga. Right now, there aren't enough black teachers to go around, either. "All the stars are aligned for white teachers to leave," says Gary Orfield, an education professor at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass. "It's a combination of poverty and racial segregation, added to cultural differences, that all makes it tough for suburban teachers to figure out the black and Latino cultures."
  
  In Georgia, the trend is as pronounced as anywhere: A new study from Georgia State University (GSU) in Atlanta says that 32 percent of white elementary school teachers left their posts at predominantly black schools in 2001 - up from 18 percent in 1995. Moreover, they left well-to-do black districts at about the same rate as poorer ones.
  
  Recent studies in Texas, California, and North Carolina reach the same conclusion. The effect, critics say, is that black students aren't getting an equal shot at good schooling. The reason: As white teachers leave, many blacks are fleeing the profession, too, leaving a dearth of qualified teachers of any kind. "As a result, we have lots of classes being taught by substitute teachers, who don't usually have degrees and aren't licensed to teach anything," says Tom Clark, a former superintendent of the Picayune County, Miss., schools.
  
  Other factors are contributing to the exodus. A recent school building boom in Georgia created more job options for teachers - many of whom wanted to work closer to their own neighborhoods. What's more, many qualified teachers tend to leave lower-performing schools at faster rates.
  
  But the authors of a new Harvard study on the "resegregation" of the South believe the flight is rooted in something more ominous. They see it an inevitable result of a backsliding society where white and black students increasingly go to different schools. They trace that divide, in part, to recent federal court decisions outlawing civil rights-era protections, such as busing and affirmative action in college admissions. What's more, fewer and fewer Southern schools are under court order to end discrimination.
  
  As diversity diminishes, the problems become exacerbated. Mr. Orfield notes that white teachers who grew up in integrated schools have less trouble adjusting to crowded hallways where most of the kids are black. Even practical complaints can mask deeper motivations. "It's race, not test scores, not income, that's the motivating factor, says David Sjoquist, a professor involved with the GSU study. "If there's a concern about safety simply because there are black people in the neighborhood, sociologists would say that's a form of racism."
  
  Still, not everyone agrees that faulty motives are behind many of the white teachers' decisions to leave. In many cases, it's more a matter of general frustration and unhappiness. "I don't think that the majority of these teachers [who leave] are racist," says Mike Worthington, the white principal of predominantly black Avondale High School in suburban Atlanta.
  
  Cultural differences certainly play a part. Mr. Worthington notes that many of the white teachers who come to his school from white high schools and predominantly white colleges have trouble adjusting to the different speech patterns and classroom characteristics at Avondale. Among other things, he would like to see new teachers learn the Creole that many blacks here speak.
  
  "I see my kids as bilingual," says Worthington, who received his cross-cultural training as a high school football coach. "There's a language that they use within their own culture that may not be used in the majority culture at large. My teachers should know that, so they can understand what's going on and allow it to be acceptable."
  
  Today, there are signs that colleges are trying to address the exodus as a product of teaching methods rather than latent racism. "[White flight] is a major subject of debate in the literature right now," says Christine Sleeter, an education professor at California State University at Monterey Bay.
  
  North Carolina Central University in Durham now offers a course in "dealing with classroom diversity." At one teachers' college in Milwaukee, some interns are required to "immerse" themselves in the neighborhood where they'll be working before taking over a lectern. "White teachers need all the help they can get," says Kian Brown, a black teacher at Durham's Y.E. Smith Elementary School.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- Oh, those peaceful, law-abiding mosques ... -- SurveyGuy (reported in the Times (UK) Online, 20:24:52 01/21/03 Tue (maxtnt03-198.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.230.198)
  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-549985,00.html
  
  January 21, 2003
  Arms found in mosque terror raid
  By Stewart Tendler, Ian Cobain, Steve Bird and Daniel McGrory
  
  A SMALL arsenal of weapons, including a stun gun and a CS gas canister, was seized during a police raid on the controversial Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, Scotland Yard said last night.
  
  Detectives also recovered hundreds of documents including forged passports, believed to be French, faked French identity cards and counterfeit credit cards.
  
  A number of arrests were made when up to 150 police, some armed, surrounded the building at 2am before using a battering ram to burst through the doors.
  
  Five Algerian men and a Somali, aged between 23 and 48, and an Albanian, 22, were detained. Among them were three Algerians who the police and the Security Service, MI5, did not know had entered the country. Police have now asked immigration officials to check on the status of all seven in this country.
  
  One of the three was said to be a "hugely significant figure" in the ricin poison plot uncovered two weeks ago. His arrest is said to be one of the most important made since police began tracking down members of the ricin network.
  
  Police also removed computer equipment. M15 is reported to have asked the GCHQ listening station at Cheltenham to intercept thousands of coded e-mails sent and received by the mosque.
  
  The raid, codenamed Operation Mermant, was mounted after police analysed material seized during a series of arrests following the discovery of the makeshift laboratory in North London. Senior officers now suspect that they have uncovered a major supply base for Islamic terrorists.
  
  The mosque has been a focal point for Islamic fundamentalism for more than six years under the influence of Abu Hamza al-Masri, the one-armed, one-eyed Egyptian-born cleric.
  
  Scotland Yard insists that it did not intrude on the main areas of the mosque that are used for worship, but officers did break down locked doors to a number of offices, including a basement office used by Abu Hamza and his deputy Abu Obeida, an Algerian asylum-seeker who has been in the UK since 1999.
  
  As police continued to search the offices and the mosque�s third-floor accommodation area, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Andy Trotter described the raid as intelligence-led and said that it aimed to make arrests as well as seizing papers. Mr Trotter said that it was part of a "coherent campaign to keep this country safe."
  
  "There will be more arrests to come in the future as a result of the intelligence we are gathering," he said.
  
  The weapons found included an electric Taser stun gun, of the kind used by law enforcement agencies in the United States and currently illegal in the UK. A blank-firing pistol was also recovered.
  
  After the weapons were found, Abu Hamza said: "This is not used for the mosque at all. This is not a terrorist weapon. This has nothing to do with the mosque."
  
  There was a mixed reaction to the operation among prominent British Muslims and clerics, with some supporting the police but many voicing grave concern. Tension was growing among Algerians in North London last night amid claims that the police raid had offended local Muslims.
  
  Around 100 Muslims, mostly Algerian, went to the heavily policed cordon around the building throughout the day to see the damaged door and smashed windows.
  
  Karim Nagib, a driving instructor who came to Britain ten years ago, said: "Algerian police would not go into churches in Algeria in that way. Being an Algerian now means people think you might be a terrorist. Britain is the best country to be in and I am proud to be British, but I feel sad about what happened at the mosque."
  
  Local residents said that the raid began shortly before
  2am when a helicopter hovered low over the mosque�s minaret and used a high-powered beam to flood the building in light.
  
  Police had the entire area sealed off within seconds, and armed officers guarded the perimeter while dog-handlers patrolled a railway line along the east side of the mosque.
  
  Moments later there was a loud crash as a hydraulic battering ram was used to break open the heavy wooden entrance doors.
  
  Laurence Baxter, 32, a policy analyst with the Consumers� Association, said: "I have been concerned about the mosque, but I find it reassuring that the police are being active. My main concern last night was getting back to sleep."
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - Did they have permits for that stuff?
    I expect the backlash will be that Muslims are being unfairly singled out and discriminated against. It has been the mantra of choice since 9/11.
    I think I hear Mae West talkin' "Oh, is that a rocket in your pocket, or are ya' just glad ta' see me?" (I wonder if their weapons and poison gas, etc., are part of their religious rituals) (NT) -- William, 08:06:13 01/22/03 Wed
    - How do we know those mosque spires are not really ICBMs? Has Hans Blix checked them out? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (with tongue in cheek), 11:08:07 01/22/03 Wed
- Great story on North Korea's atrocities and why they are part of the "Axis of Evil" -- KRM, 11:44:32 01/20/03 Mon (noc-nat.ma.tmpw.net/63.112.170.1)
  http://www.msnbc.com/news/859191.asp
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- Some over-enthusiastic police or what? They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I say it is paved with poor behavior. -- SurveyGuy, 19:01:37 01/09/03 Thu (maxtnt01-sdf-337.fast.net/209.92.61.83)
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2003Jan7.html
  Bar Raids Irritate Owners, Drinkers
  Fairfax Police Defend Sobriety Testing
  By Carol Morello Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, January 8, 2003; Page B01
  
  As the designated driver in her dinner party, Pat Habib was careful to consume no more than one alcoholic drink and follow it up with two sodas.
  
  So she was shocked when a police officer singled her out of the crowd at Jimmy's Old Town Tavern in Herndon and asked her to step outside to prove her sobriety. After she ran through the alphabet without pause, the Fairfax County police officer let her go and explained police had received a complaint about an unruly blond woman matching her description. Then she watched as police tested other women looking nothing like her.
  
  "I could see it if they wanted to prevent you from getting into a car, but they didn't even ask me if I was driving," Habib said.
  
  Habib was among restaurant and bar patrons swept up last month in a joint operation of the Fairfax County police and the Virginia Department of Alcohol Beverage Control. During the holiday period, undercover agents went to 20 bars in Reston and Herndon looking for examples of bartenders "overserving" customers. Police ultimately raided three bars and arrested nine patrons who failed sobriety tests. They were charged with public drunkenness and spent the night in jail.
  
  Police consider the operation a success and said they would consider doing it again. Lt. Tor Bennett, assistant commander of the Reston District station, described it as a "low-key" operation designed to stop drunks before they got behind the wheel.
  
  "We're not talking about someone who was enjoying a cocktail or two and enjoying a nice evening out," Bennett said, noting that the nine men arrested had blood-alcohol levels ranging from 0.14 to 0.22. "They drew attention to themselves by their actions."
  
  But civil libertarians, restaurateurs and many of their customers who were either questioned or arrested have decried the police tactic. They said many people who were drinking responsibly and causing no commotion now have the Class 4 misdemeanor of public intoxication on their record, and many more potential customers were scared away for good out of fear that a drink or two could get them arrested.
  
  "It does smack of a pending police state if law enforcement is going into establishments to monitor behavior," said Lynne Breaux, executive director of the Metropolitan Washington Restaurant Association. "At the same time, we strongly oppose any combination of drinking and driving."
  
  Under Virginia law, a restaurant or bar is a public place, and public intoxication is a low-level misdemeanor punishable by a night in jail and up to a $250 fine.
  
  Kent Willis of the Virginia branch of the American Civil Liberties Union said the law does not specify what level of blood alcohol constitutes public drunkenness. The level for drunken driving is 0.08.
  
  Police said the holiday raids, first reported in the Reston Times, were born of a community policing goal of discouraging crime before it occurs. Bennett said police had been called repeatedly to the three bars in response to fights and disorderly conduct. Undercover agents found no problems in 17 other bars they visited before Christmas, he said. And four of the men arrested were on their way to their cars when police stopped them, he said.
  
  "We're not talking about overzealousness here," Bennett said, adding that uniformed police officers who made the arrests were accompanied by members of the police bicycle patrol clad in nylon pants and polo shirts.
  
  But bartenders and patrons saw it differently.
  
  At Ned DeVine's restaurant in Reston, owner Graham Davies said seven or eight police officers "came bursting into the place."
  
  "If they decided you had too much to drink, you were targeted," Davies said, acknowledging that he believed the three customers who were arrested at his tavern probably had too much to drink.
  
  "The police are within their rights. I can't disagree with what they want to do, which is save lives. But I disagree with the way they did it."
  
  At Champps in Reston, general manager Kevin O'Hare described police as "antagonistic." He said they "pulled" people from their chairs who were making no commotion. "They're always welcome to come in anytime," he said of police. "It's not an issue when they talk to our guests. But when they actually pull people out of their seats, it is an issue. When it's borderline harassment, it's an issue."
  
  One man who was arrested during one of the police raids acknowledged having several drinks during the course of the afternoon, but said he was not driving or acting unruly as he sat at a table with several work colleagues. He had just finished singing "Jingle Bell Rock" on the karaoke machine when an officer asked him to step outside. He failed a breath test and was taken in a van to jail.
  
  "I've lived my life with tremendous respect for the rule of law," said the man, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is contesting the charges.
  
  Now his respect is tarnished.
  
  "You could be anybody, anywhere, and they can take you out and throw you in jail," he said. ". . . I didn't do anything other than to be in the wrong place at the wrong time."
  
  Katherine K. Hanley (D), chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, said the operation was a tool to reduce drunken driving and would be evaluated before it is repeated.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - why do I get the feeling these people watched Minority Report ? (NT) -- H_Bergeron ( pre-crime prevention at its finest), 02:13:55 01/15/03 Wed
    - Note that they made being drunk in public a crime. You don;t have to be disorderly or doing something dangerous like driving. Just sitting quietly, although drunk, in a public place is sufficient cause for arrest because of what one might do later. Yup, a pre-crime crime. However, if the bar owner is drunk and lives upstairs, is he in public or home? A lawyer friend of mine who lives nearby is not bothered by this at all. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (people do not seem to understand how liberties are stripped away under the guise of protecting someone), 18:53:55 01/17/03 Fri
      - eminds me of a Bruce Cockburn lyric:
        "sudenly it's repression, moratorium on rights/
        what did they think the politics of panic would invite?/
        person in the street shrugs "security comes first"/
        the trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
        from "The Trouble with Normal" (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 05:16:58 01/19/03 Sun
        
        Thank you for that wonderful lyric! (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:50:50 01/19/03 Sun
- When is enough, enough?
  A woman and celebrity takes a stand and walks out on bad behavior -- William, 00:14:18 01/19/03 Sun (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  
  Actress Patricia Heaton is honorary Chairperson for Feminists for Life, a national femininst pro-life group. She is one of the few Hollywood celebrities who actually takes a stand against abortion and lived to tell the tale, having won two Emmy awards for her acting role in the television program "Everybody Loves Raymond" playing the wife of Raymond.
  
  Here she goes against the grain again, walking out of the Music Awards held at the Shrine Auditorium, as a result of lewd and off color behavior and jokes perpetrated by fellow attendees, performers, and presenters, even at the expense and in the presence of young people during a prime time broadcast.
  
  Patricia is openly pro-life and walked out of an event that was rife with celebrities and "power elite" in the entertainment industry due to bad behavior of fellow participants. Does this woman have a little bit of guts, or what?
  
  She has character and backbone. She reminds me of my wife.
  
  William
  
  Hollywood star stands up for decency
  
  Patricia Heaton walks out of music awards because of lewd tone
  Posted: January 17, 2003 10:00 p.m. Eastern from World Net Daily
  
  For "Everybody Loves Raymond" star Patricia Heaton, the last straw came when a performer at the 30th annual American Music Awards made graphic references to three-way sex. That, and, perhaps, Sharon Osbourne's joke about what she called Mariah Carey's "fake" endowments.
  
  Though the actress was at the awards show to introduce a pre-recorded retrospective of executive producer Dick Clark's annual music show, enough was enough. She walked out of the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, disgusted by what she called "an onslaught of lewd jokes and off-color remarks."
  
  A two-time Emmy winner for her portrayal of Debra Barone on "Everybody Loves Raymond," the sitcom star had grown increasingly upset with the raw and raunchy comments made by presenters, performers and the hosts for last Monday's show ? the infamous Osbournes.
  
  "I'm no prude, but this was such a vulgar and disgusting show," Heaton told the Cleveland Plain-Dealer.
  
  Heaton marches to the beat of her own drummer in an industry not known for such politically incorrect thinking. She even boasts Rush Limbaugh among her personal friends.
  
  "I arrived a little late and was seated in the audience," Heaton said. "I was going to present what's called a video package ? a look at 30 years of the American Music Awards. Well, what was passing for humor basically ranged from stupid to vulgar, and I just thought, 'I'm not going to be part of this.' So I walked out and said, 'Get me my car. I'm leaving.'"
  
  Even the show-business industry publications and reporters covering the event noted the Osbournes and other performers kept the ABC network censors working overtime. Print advertisements for the live awards event showed a roaring Ozzy Osbourne saying, "I'll be bleeped!"
  
  "The entire evening became about bleeping," said Heaton. "It was as if they were trying to become more like the MTV awards. But it's one thing if this kind of stuff is on MTV at 10 at night. It's quite another if it's on ABC at 8 o'clock. I don't know what Dick Clark was thinking."
  
  She continued: "I really didn't know what I was getting into. I mean, there was Ryan Seacrest pulling open his co-presenter's shirt, then noticing there was a 12-year-old girl in the front row. And he says, 'Don't worry, honey, you'll have a pair of these soon.' And everybody went crazy. It felt like I was in the Roman Colosseum. As far as I'm concerned, it was an affront to anyone with a shred of dignity, self-respect and intelligence."
  
  Will Heaton take heat in Hollywood for her decision? She's not expecting it.
  
  "And if there is," she said, "who cares? When I was waiting for my car, one of the security people came up to me and said, 'I just want you to know how much I admire what you're doing.' So I wasn't the only one who felt this way. The camera coordinator for the awards was our camera coordinator from 'Raymond.' And when I walked on the set the next day, he started applauding."
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - Yes, I read that. Let's see if she gets any othre roles after that series is over. Apparently crudeness is considered "kewl." Went to see George Carlin a few months back. Crudeness is now his whole act. I don't mind a bit thrown in for the adolescent minds who think they're adults, but a whole show of that just isn't funny. I wasn't offended as much as bored. Hollywood used to think drugs were avante garde. Now this disease of the intellect is poisoning their thinking. What a bunch of pinheads. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Bravo! to Ms. Heaton), 17:48:32 01/19/03 Sun
- Submitted for your consideration... John le Carre' -- H_Bergeron, 02:21:06 01/17/03 Fri (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
  from The London Times
  The United States of America has gone mad
  John le Carre'
  America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember: worse than McCarthyism, worse than the Bay of Pigs and in the long term potentially more disastrous than the Vietnam War.
  The reaction to 9/11 is beyond anything Osama bin Laden could have hoped for in his nastiest dreams. As in McCarthy times, the freedoms that have made America the envy of the world are being systematically eroded. The combination of compliant US media and vested corporate interests is once more ensuring that a debate that should be ringing out in every town square is confined to the loftier columns of the East Coast press.
  The imminent war was planned years before bin Laden struck, but it was he who made it possible. Without bin Laden, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favouring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world?s poor, the ecology and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions.
  But bin Laden conveniently swept all that under the carpet. The Bushies are riding high. Now 88 per cent of Americans want the war, we are told. The US defence budget has been raised by another $60 billion to around $360 billion. A splendid new generation of nuclear weapons is in the pipeline, so we can all breathe easy. Quite what war 88 per cent of Americans think they are supporting is a lot less clear. A war for how long, please? At what cost in American lives? At what cost to the American taxpayer?s pocket? At what cost ? because most of those 88 per cent are thoroughly decent and humane people ? in Iraqi lives?
  
  How Bush and his junta succeeded in deflecting America?s anger from bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations conjuring tricks of history. But they swung it. A recent poll tells us that one in two Americans now believe Saddam was responsible for the attack on the World Trade Centre. But the American public is not merely being misled. It is being browbeaten and kept in a state of ignorance and fear. The carefully orchestrated neurosis should carry Bush and his fellow conspirators nicely into the next election.
  
  Those who are not with Mr Bush are against him. Worse, they are with the enemy. Which is odd, because I?m dead against Bush, but I would love to see Saddam?s downfall ? just not on Bush?s terms and not by his methods. And not under the banner of such outrageous hypocrisy.
  read the rest of the piece
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - Due to space constraints I posted an initial reply to this post in a main message directly above (NT) -- William, 05:04:12 01/18/03 Sat
- Answer to le Carre's article/opinion piece posted below by H Bergeron -- William, 04:56:22 01/18/03 Sat (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  H Bergeron, I think the author, John le Carre, hates George Bush and has fallen for the rhetoric from Islamic web sites as well as the left and fifth column here and abroad, such as that in Europe and Arabia, that Iraq is about oil and Bush is Hitler.
  
  I believe that le Carre is among the masses who also hate Israel and think that the Jews are the bad guys and that when Israelis are killed by Arab homicidal suicide bombers that Israelis lost their lives but the killers are freedom fighters and martyrs doing a good thing (He sounds like he does not like Israel either).
  
  I think he tries to draw a link to oil between Condaleeza Rice, Dick Cheney, and George Bush and imply that this is all about oil. The author, le Carre, does mention the human rights abuses, which Bush did mention as well but are often ignored in this context and which are not emphasized as much as they could be, but he passes that off with the same arrogant, needling method of so many others, by naming other places where there are human rights abuses. He forgets that the US went in to other countries, such as Bosnia, Kosovo, etc., to stop human rights abuses. They did not necessarily have anything to offer the US, no oil, nothing of the kind. It was done under a Liberal/Democrat President, Clinton, and it was mainly emphasized that it was for human rights for someone else. In the case of the current plans, it is for the United States interests, such as security, as well as to remove a megalomaniac dictator from power. Although I do not think that this is about oil, one must remember that our culture, and others, do depend on oil. It is almost as important as water. Would people become offended if the US went to war because of water? Only if a conservative or Republican president was in office at the time. The Liberals/Democrats seem to be unable to accept military action which is intended to protect the US and its interests. If it is for charity it is okay though.
  
  I remember back in the late 1990s how Clinton ordered the weeks long bombings in Kosova and Bosnia. Those bombings killed many Christians. There was no outcry over that. The Muslims were saved, even though it is true that those Muslims had been involved in the planning and carrying out of attacks and murders of non Muslims. Nevertheless the Muslims were helped and now people forget and claim that the US murders Muslims. Which ones? Only those in Iraq who invaded Kuwait, anther country whose appreciation seems to be no where in sight.
  
  It also sounds like the author would prefer the likes of Al Gore or Hillary Clinton running the show instead of Bush. In other words, he believes in it but not with Bush as the president.
  
  It also appears that this author ignores the fact that the US does not intend to kill innocent civilians but intends to minimize such casualties. The fact that we were attacked and we have a right to take action to defend ourselves including unseating Saddam Hussein and securing Iraq and the Middle East where a great number of the enemy, those who attacked us and declared war on us, are actually residing and being supported and trained is totally ignored.
  
  There is al Qaeda related activity in Iraq. I do not understand how the people of the US do not realize that. I wonder if they have been ignoring this information or if the US press just does not talk about it much. Nevertheless, le Carre sounds like British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, who was giddy with excitement at a letter he brought back from Hitler and whose policies failed to avert the outbreak of World War II in Europe in 1939. Chamberlain went the route of appeasement and later, after Churchill was prime minister and the German army was finally defeated, Chamberlain admitted that he made a mistake.
  
  I have more specific information to reduce le Carre's statements to the babbling I think they are but it would take me some time to type it out and double check it, so I am leaving this summary with the possibility of adding more to this forum about this later.
  
  I am aware of some of the stupid ideas perpetrated here since 9/11 which do circumvent some of the constitutional rights but I am also aware that many steps have already been taken to circumvent these rights without the influence of 9/11. We citizens must do something about this regardless of 9/11 and current policies.
  
  Regarding the authors talk about switching attention from al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden to Iraq and Saddam Hussein, that is nonsense. Throughout the world many thousands of arrests and hundreds of convictions have already taken place, including upper leadership in al Qaeda. Even here in the US many have been arrested and many al Qaeda cells have already been disrupted.
  
  As of today, allowing for incidents around the world, like the bombing in Bali, the attack on the Israeli Airliner in Kenya, and the Israeli/Jewish hotel in Kenya, as well as activity in India, Pakistan, and elsewhere, there various Islamofascist militants are busy killing people, there has been no major catastrophic attack as that which took place on 9/11/01. It appears that the leftists, fifth column, and left leaning liberal democrats, although even many Democrats do see the importance of getting serious, even if it means employing military force to stop these killers, here in the Us and around the world, are upset that there have been no major attacks and deaths.
  
  The US has not stopped its hunt for al Qaeda and the author's suggestion is pure, well, it is pure nonsense! Sour grapes again. The US and the Bush administration are still pursuing these killers and still going on to other things.
  
  We shall see about the other claims that people make about US imperialism and colonialism. To date this has mainly been done by others. The Arab/Muslims have been busy conquering nations for more than 800 years and still do so today. That is how Islam spread throughout Arabia, South Asia, and North Africa, and how Islam is about the only religions which can be practiced and where others are practiced they are being tortured, murdered, imprisoned, made to pay the poll tax and treated like second class citizens, their places of worship vandalized or destroyed, etc., etc. And the call the US imperialists. We defeated Germany and Japan and instead of making them the 49th and 50th states (Alaska became the 49th state on January 3, 1959. Hawaii was annexed before becoming a state. Hawaii became the 50th state August 21, 1959) the US helped rebuild these two countries.
  
  Russia and France are already customers of Iraq, which might explain why they did not wish to see the US invade Iraq. Nevertheless I have a wait and see attitude about the accusations about this being about oil, etc. But if it is, I also reserve judgment to see what is done with it, for, as I said above, oil is important to people's lives and if people needed water would they have a problem with that? Gore and others from the Democrat side also have interest in oil. If Gore were president would the Democrat and Leftists have a problem with him going to Iraq and claim that he was interested in oil? He and his family have oil ties as well.
  
  I'll answer that. If Hillary or Bill Clinton, or Al Gore were president and going into Iraq I don't think people would be as upset. I think it is because most people do approve of something being done but are upset because it is Republican Bush who is doing it. Of course the Leftists, and extreme rightits, would scream no matter what a person does. (exaggeration for emphasis)
  
  I've got to go.
  
  That is all for now.
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- Is al-Qaeda winning? -- William, 23:40:17 01/08/03 Wed (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)
  
  This is from the Observer published in the Sydney Herald,
  
  Why al-Qaeda is winning
  
  January 4 2003
  
  The war against terrorism won't be won until the West grasps the fact that we are fighting a lethal idea rather than a tangible enemy, writes Peter Beaumont.
  
  When the dust has settled and the blood and tears have dried, we will be able to say one thing with certainty about the terrorist attack in Kenya. Anyone who tells you the war against terrorism is being won is lying.
  
  It is the great heresy of free societies, so speak it softly, but the accumulating evidence of the past four years is that terrorism can - and does - work. And it is working on a global scale.
  
  It is a simple fact that is more terrifying than any of the attacks themselves - September 11 included. That a tiny group of extremists, for the most part using the most basic of technologies, could effect such a startling paradigm shift that has transformed the world we live in. But to what end? The answer is more surprising than our political classes appear yet to have grasped.
  
  Strip away the millenarian agenda and its language of apocalyptic struggle - the Great Satans, the enemies of God, references to the Crusaders. Strip away, just for a moment, its extreme religious aspects and what you are left with is a non-negotiable political agenda.
  
  That aim is to remove - or neutralise - American and Western influence from large areas of the globe, including states that are not exclusively Islamist.
  
  It is a tension that was in part foreseen by Benjamin Barber in 1992 in his essay Jihad versus McWorld, which predicted that the greatest threat to democracy would be the clash between the spread of a homogenising American culture - paradoxically indifferent to what was happening in the world it touched on - and a new kind of anti-political tribal politics which, he predicted, would see 'the breakdown of civility in the name of identity, of comity in the name of community'.
  
  Barber thought that breakdown in civility would likely come from the kind of gang warfare then beginning to grip the Balkans. Instead, the real challenge to McWorld has been the unforeseen emergence of an extremist version of radical Islam at war with the West and all it stands for. For the time being, at least, it seems it is the terrorists who are winning.
  
  It is a pessimistic outlook, but an easy case to make. Let's start with the most obvious economic impact. The fear engendered by a spate of attacks by Jihad International - al-Qaeda and groups that share its agenda - is crippling the long-haul tourist industry, threatening the West's airline industry and has almost shut down tourism outside the US. That cost is likely to amount to billions in the long run, its impact being felt as keenly in countries such as Indonesia and Kenya which are heavily dependent on tourist dollars.
  
  What is less quantifiable is what John Stevenson, senior fellow in counter-terrorism at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, describes as al-Qaeda's aim of 'neutralising' America and the West's influence in large areas of the world. Already the US and other countries have reduced embassies in vulnerable areas of the world, closing missions at times of threat. But it is not just diplomats who carry our message into the world. Business, too, is supposed to fly the flag for our values. And as businesses become more wary of operating in threatened areas, they will withdraw to safer areas of operation.
  
  In our withdrawal from exactly those places where the kind of Islamist extremism we fear most is at its most threatening, we give up the intellectual and psychological space to those who most threaten our values. Because the real war with al-Qaeda, as James Thomson, the president of the Rand Corporation think-tank, pointed out in the organisation's summer review, is not simply one of missiles, snatch squads and bullets. It is quintessentially one of ideas.
  
  And it is in the war of ideas that we are most notably failing in the war on terrorism. As Thomson's overview points out, even a year after September 11, America and its allies have little idea of the roots of the discontent that has made Jihad International so attractive to so many young Islamist men, or the etiology of the hatred of America.
  
  Not only is the message not getting across, but there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of where the real sophistication of Jihad International comes from. It is not in its ingenious and despicable skill in butchering innocent civilians, or even in its apparently formidable organisational skills, which in reality may be far less formidable than assumed, but in syndicating and marketing its brand of terror.
  
  This is not the old terrorism of the Irish Republican Army or the Basque terrorist group, the ETA, with structures, doctrines and pseudo-military organisation. What George Bush and Tony Blair and their allies do not understand is that it is the idea of al-Qaeda, not its reality, that is the key, an idea that has taken root in countries from Afghanistan to South-East Asia and Africa.
  
  At the centre of that idea is an oppositional discourse that seeks to drive the West - particularly America - out of what Osama bin Laden has claimed as the wider Islamic nation. That misunderstanding is represented at its worst by Bush who - it is said - keeps a list of 12 names of the top al-Qaeda terrorists and ticks them off as they are captured or killed.
  
  But al-Qaeda is less a hierarchical organisation led by a sinister mastermind, than a dynamic dialogue between like-minded radicals conducted via mosques, radical publications and the internet. A specific order is almost redundant as individual groups know exactly what must be done and when, adapting themselves to new security constraints and to new targets.
  
  What appears to have been 'understood' before the attack on Mombasa was that it was the right time to polarise the war on terrorism. Just when Bush and his allies had constructed a grudging consent from the Arab world for its tough line on Iraq, Jihad International brought in Israel.
  
  In his threat to hunt down the perpetrators of the Mombasa attacks, Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, has threatened to upset the delicate consensus between America and its allies on the issue of the war on terrorism, and on the UN Security Council over Iraq. So by bringing Israel explosively into the mix a week before the deadline for Iraq's weapons declaration, Jihad International has shown a political and operational astuteness that is terrifying.
  
  What is more terrifying is the notion among the West's political classes that it is an organisation, not an idea, they are fighting. With each new arrest, each new targeted killing, we congratulate ourselves that we are winning - until the next atrocity. All the while, we fail to tackle the ideas that replace each arrested or dead terrorist with a new recruit.
  
  As the tens of millions dead in the last century demonstrated, ideas - no matter that they are venal ones like Nazism or Stalinism - can be as hard to kill as they are lethally and stupidly persistent. But in a war of ideas, to do nothing is the worst of all options.
  
  The Observer
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
  
  Replies:
  - I've said it before (I think).... Islamism is the new Communism
    which I guess will inevitably lead to someone wondering if Islamist love their children too.... (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 02:18:25 01/15/03 Wed
  - could you imagine what Joe McCarthy could have done if he had a 9/11 incident to work with? (NT) -- H_Bergeron, 02:24:58 01/17/03 Fri
- Anyone attempting to post scams will be banned -- SurveyGuy, 15:26:17 01/15/03 Wed (maxtnt01-sdf-450.fast.net/209.92.61.196)
  The reason the old post under this one jumped to the top is because calling themselves "Willfred" someone posted one of those stupid email letters caliming that they would share a multi-million dollar windfall if only you give them access to your bank account (in effect).
  
  This time I only deleted the post and banned the posted. If it happens again, I will report it to the FBI along with IP number and time of posting and text of message as well as return email. Of course the FBI will probably do nothing because these are usually off-shore. I know that no -one here would fall for that nonsense, but sometimes we need to warn some of our more foolish friends.
  
  I am amazed when I read that people still fall for the old "pigeon drop" scam. Lots of internet similar scams. Watch out.
  
  For real internet deals, visit http://clarkhoward.com/
  
  [ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]
- INS: Incontrovertible Nincompoop Status? Did they do the right thing .... or the easy, yet incompetent thing. -- SurveyGuy, 19:26:19 01/09/03 Thu (maxtnt01-sdf-337.fast.net/209.92.61.83)
  Canadian programmers in San Jose jailed for 5 days for no reason
  You may be interested in the story of Faramarz Farahani and other high-tech workers in California who, trying to do the right thing on the advice of their lawyers, went to clear up immigration paperwork. Farahani is a Canadian who was born in Iran, as was another man.
  
  In his case, he had overstayed his visa by 2 days. When he went to the INS, they were too busy, and rather than having him come back when they didn't have so many people on staff, they jailed him, sending him on a Con Air junket, eventually to a San Diego jail, where, in the holiday spirit, he had to sleep in a crowded cell on a concrete floor while INS agents woke them every 15 minutes to ask questions.
  
  Only because he had help from his silicon valley employer and because he had good English did he make it out after only 5 days of fun.
  
  Welcome to America!
  
  http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021226/ULOCKN/Headlines/headdex/headdexInternational_temp/13/13/19/
  
  http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=farahani&btnG=Search+News
  
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  Replies:
  - SurveyGuy, Thanks for keeping us apprised of these situations. They either do nothing to help and everything to hurt or they do stupid things like not do their job, make people who are sincere and legal, wait until it is too late then arrest them an incarcerate them for noncompliance. Not a very efficient or helpful group, the INS, are they? They don't waste any time incarcerating people fleeing from China but if a person is from Mexico, the Middle East, or Cuba, the treatment seems to be different. (NT) -- William, 20:55:05 01/11/03 Sat
    - I don't know what it is, but their system sure seems screwed up. Here people present themselves under their company attorney's advice and the IRS jails them because they don't have the time. Somehow, I do not think terrorists are going to show up at INS with papers. The INS may even make some new terrorists with their behavior and treatment. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (seeing patterns of incompetence everywhere. Sort of the opposite of paranoia. I am sure that people are to confused to be after me.), 17:17:27 01/12/03 Sun
- Penn Jillette - Airport patriot.... don't you just love stries like these? -- H_Bergeron, 01:55:18 01/05/03 Sun (ppp-216-158-59-67.cust.oldcity.dca.net/216.158.59.67)
  this is the summary from Boing Boing
  read the whole story here
  Penn Jillette, nerd squillionairre and fearless bad-boy magician,
  had a bad experience with Las Vegas airport security, where a security guard
  grabbed his crotch during a frisking without asking permission.
  
  Penn, who knows his rights, told the guard that unless he asks first,
  grabbing a person's groin is assault.
  The guard told him, basically, that he doesn't have any rights
  once he's in the security checkpoint, and shut up.
  So Penn asked him to call the cops so that he could press assault charges.
  What follows is a tragicomedy for the twenty-first century,
  in which various airport personnel insist that poor Penn will be late for his flight
  if he doesn't back off of this pressing charges business,
  and a Las Vegas cop (who's an enormous Penn and Teller fan) tells them, Penn's right,
  you committed assualt, and Penn stoically insists that he won't mind missing his flight,
  since he can always catch a later one.
  The punchline is a call from a PR person at the airport who offers to ensure
  that he gets VIP treatment from now on whenever he flies out of Vegas.
  
  I explained the problem. "Do you allow your crotch to be grabbed without being asked?"
  I didn't exaggerate, I said that there was nothing sexual,
  I wasn't hurt, and it wasn't my genitals. I just said it was wrong.
  She said "Well, your feedback is really important because most people are afraid of us..."
  
  She said, "Well, you know a LOT about this."
  I said, "Well, it's not really the right word, but freedom is kind of a hobby with me,
  and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more of it."
  She said, "Well, the airport is very important to all of our incomes and we don't want bad press.
  It'll hurt everyone, but you have to do what you think is right.
  But, if you give me your itinerary every time you fly, I'll be at the airport with you
  and we can make sure it's very pleasant for you."
  
  I have no idea what this means, does it mean that they have a special area where all the friskers are topless showgirls,
  "We have nothing to hide, do you?" I have no idea.
  She pushes me for the next time I'm flying. I tell her I'm flying to Chicago around 2 on Sunday,
  if she wants to get that security guy there to sneer at me.
  She says, she'll be there, and it'll be very easy for me. I have no idea what this means...
  
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  Replies:
  - Very interesting, but we alrea

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