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News Item! -- William, 12:48:28 05/09/03 Fri (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
The William News Journal
"All the news that fits, we print"

Terrorists' Twin Tower Images, Secret Porn Messages

By Alexandra Salomon ABC News - story link

ROME, May 8 ? Investigators analyzing computers seized from an Italian mosque say they have uncovered images of the twin towers that were downloaded just days before the 9/11 attacks, as well as a trove of pornographic photos they believe were used to conceal coded messages.

On Sept. 4, 2001, according to investigators, pictures of the World Trade Center were saved as temporary files on one of the computers at the Via Quaranta mosque in Milan ? the mosque frequented by Abdelkader Mahmoud Es Sayed, also known as Abu Saleh, an Egyptian currently on trial in absentia in Milan on charges of international terrorism.

Court documents from the ongoing Milan trial, cited by the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, say that police discovered images of the World Trade Center along with numerous files that contained images downloaded from the Internet of political leaders such as President Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, as well as large quantities of pornographic material, also taken from the Internet.

The images, investigators said, had been manipulated ? their colors modified ? before being sent back onto the Web.

Police believe this was one of the ways that al Qaeda cell members communicated, encoding, in many instances, pornographic images that were were traded back and forth, an investigative source confirmed.

The practice is known as steganography. Read a Brian Ross report to find out more.

Police confiscated 11 computers from the Via Quaranta mosque in November 2001, according to court documents, after issuing an arrest warrant for its founder, Es Sayed, during an investigation into an Islamic terrorist cell headquartered in Milan that provided logistical support to the al Qaeda network.

Several key members of the cell have been convicted in the Italian courts, and five others are on trial in Milan, charged with association to international terrorist groups, falsification of documents and aiding illegal immigration.

Milan prosecutors believe that Es Sayed was an al Qaeda lieutenant sent to Italy to recruit new members to send to the terrorist network.

During an investigation that lasted more than two years, police recorded conversations between Es Sayed and a Yemeni man who referred to "studying airplanes."

During one wiretapped conversation in August of 2000, the Yemeni tells Es Sayed that "God willing, I hope that I can bring you a window or piece of airplane the next time we meet."

Italian investigators have never determined a direct link between the Milan cell and the Sept. 11 attacks, but the images of the twin towers that investigators say the discovered on the computer hard drive suggest that perhaps at least one of the Milan cell members had knowledge of the attacks before they occurred.

The digital evidence is still being analyzed.

Police say they found material that they describe as "interesting" on several of the confiscated computers. The hard drives of all the computers had all been erased but were reconstructed in part by computer experts collaborating with the Milan courts, the investigative source said.

In conversations recorded during more than two years of investigation, cell members often referred to computers and Web sites, and made frequent use of Internet cafes to exchange information, the source confirmed.

Although the investigators were able to determine how the images were manipulated, they have not yet been able to decode the messages that might have been conveyed by those manipulations.

According to a report in the Corriere della Sera, the Italian investigators have asked for help from experts in the United States.

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Unreal. -- JL, 09:07:38 05/04/03 Sun (pcp01376707pcs.selrsv01.pa.comcast.net/68.80.69.241)
Baghdad-Style Looting At U.N. Eateries
By Heidi Singer
Courtesies to the New York Post Online

'May 4, 2003 -- A crazed mob of diplomats angry at being made to wait for lunch because of striking restaurant workers rioted in U.N. cafeterias Friday and looted them of thousands of dollars in food, booze and silverware.

"It was chaos, wild, something out of a war scene," an executive from the company taking over food services for the United Nations told Time magazine. "They took everything."

The food fight was sparked by an impromptu strike at the United Nations' five eateries.

Hungry diplomats were getting crabby, according to the magazine, so a high-ranking official ordered the cafeteria doors thrown open around 1 p.m. - and that's when all hell broke loose.

The raid was "unbelievable - crowds of people just taking everything in sight. They stripped the place bare," said an observer.

So many liquor bottles were raided that one U.S. diplomat said he lost count.

An official from Aramark Corp., which took over operations of the restaurants in March, estimated between $7,000 and $9,000 worth of food was taken, plus silverware and booze.'

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Replies:
- I wonder what it will finally take to get these scum out of NY and out of the country? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I have wanted them gone for over 20 years), 14:10:45 05/04/03 Sun
  - "Scum"! Strong word. Who are you referring to, UN diplomats, or foreigners in general? Are you absolutely sure that no US citizen was part of this rabble? Especially given the quote "one U.S. diplomat responded: "I stopped counting the bottles." He then excused himself and headed towards the men's room." - no wonder he couldn't count, he probably couldn't remember his own name. There are very few countries that are so lily-white that they can get sanctimonious about everyone else - possibly only Iceland. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:28:08 05/06/03 Tue
    - U.N. diplomats and their cronies. The story IS about the UN after all. After years of spies with diplomatic credentials, flauting of local laws, etc., etc. plus the outrageous, and useless, goings on, these scum should be finally asked to leave and tyake their organization with them. Will it happen? Of course not. I have been in favor of moving the UN to Paris (or Cuba or anywhere else) for at least 20 years. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:35:03 05/06/03 Tue
    - 'Scum' is fitting to me. If U.S. citizens were involved in this mayhem, they also are befitting of the adminishment of 'scum'. Savages in $2000 suits, whomever and wherever. End of story. Waste of valuable real estate. (NT) -- JL (Been with ya on this one big time, SG), 20:10:08 05/06/03 Tue
      - "Scum" is fine with me as well, just as long as we include all the nationalities involved and don't assume it was just Syrians, French, and other members of the "Coalition of the Unwilling". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:21:35 05/07/03 Wed
        
        No, it is the whole organization. No one has the guts to leave. I guess the U.S. will have to lead the way again . . . hopefully. The U.N. will cross the line, whatever that is. The problem is the shadow government that wants this "New World Order" with the U.N. as the "front" for it all. Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but unfolding events seem to confirm it. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Noting that diplomacy is just a polite way to lie to your face.), 11:59:47 05/07/03 Wed
- Hello, JL! Thank you for the story. I have the Time.com story which covered this incident from a few days ago. For those who are interested, click here, and you will also have access to the Time.com link itself as well as the article, including some of my own comments or quips about the UN. -- William, 13:54:04 05/05/03 Mon
  - It really is pathetic, this demonising of the UN because the Security Council wouldn't support a resolution to go to war with Iraq. Why? Because they didn't believe the evidence on WMD's. That's hardly surprising, since weapons that according to Blair were "45 minutes from being launched", still haven't been found after all this time (and there are no weapons inspectors to blame now). The UN may be "scum", but at least they're not gullible. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:40:38 05/06/03 Tue
Here is another example of what kind of person gets to work for a liberal, Left wing news paper. Re: Robert Scheer, communist sympathizer and rabble rouser. -- William, 05:57:12 05/06/03 Tue (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)

Los Angeles Times Columnist Robert Scheer's Trip to North Korea (1970)
By The Black Panther newspaper
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 6, 2003

From The Black Panther (the official party paper), August 8, 1970:

A delegation of Americans headed by Eldridge Cleaver arrived in Pyongyang, North Korea, on July 14, 1970. They were in North Korea at the invitation of the 'Committee for the Peaceful Unification of the Fatherland.'

Organizations represented in the American delegation included "the Black Panther Party, the San Francisco Red Guard, Women?s Liberation, the Peace and Freedom Party, Newsreel, and the Movement for a Democratic Military. The purpose of this U.S. people?s delegation is to express solidarity with the struggles of the Korean people and to bring back to Babylon information about their communist society and their fight against U.S. imperialism."

A message from the American delegates included the following statement:

"The Pentagon has a global strategy for dealing with liberation struggles whether they be inside or outside the U.S. This strategy will increasingly apply to any anti imperialist movement.

Since the peoples of the world have a common enemy, we must begin to think of revolution as an international struggle against U.S. imperialism. Our struggle in the U.S. is a genuine part of the total revolutionary assault on this enemy. Understanding the Korean people?s struggle, and communicating this to the American movement is a crucial step in developing this internationalist perspective."

The message was signed: Patricia Sumi, Jan Austin, Ann Froines, Gina Blumenfeld, Eldridge Cleaver, Robert Scheer, Randy Rappaport, Alex Hing, Elaine Brown, Andy Truskier, Janet Kranzberg,

Excerpted from The Black Panther newspaper, August 8, 1970:19, quoted in The Black Panther Leaders Speak: Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seale, Eldridge Cleaver and Company Speak Out Through the Black Panther Party's Official Newspaper, edited by G. Louis Heath, Scarecrow Press, 1976.

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Replies:
- maybe he's changed in 30-odd years. People do. Jack Straw was a card-carrying Trotskyite in his student days. Bush Jnr. wasn't prepared to go and fight in Vietnam. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:38:31 05/06/03 Tue
  - Robert Scheer does not seem to have changed. I read his commentaries. They are rife with anti-US rhetoric and interpretations of things in an anti-US fashion. He still blames all the world's woes on the US, yet, like so many others who make a decent living and have roots here, he won't go live in Cuba, Russia, China, Iran, or anywhere else which is supposed to be so much better than the mean and nasty United States of America. That is the whole point of why I posted the article about Scheer's sentiments from the 1970s. They were anti-US then and he still has them. (NT) -- William, 16:04:23 05/06/03 Tue
- Robert Scheer is every bit the anti-American jerk-off he has always been. Sorry, SG and Surf. (NT) -- JL, 20:28:02 05/06/03 Tue
  - He's so Scheer, you can see right through him. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (sorry, I cannot resist a pun), 18:37:11 05/08/03 Thu
    - Yuk, yuk yuk! ; ) (NT) -- JL, 18:57:14 05/08/03 Thu
Pretty scarey stuff! While the admonition to support the ACLU is as misguided as supporting the U.N. one has to ask seriously about the erosion of liberties and 4th amendment rights. Moral: Stay out of ethnic restaurants unless you want more excitement than the meal you bargained for. [Just kidding.] The Bush administration needs to be addressed on these REAL outrages, not the crap the Democrats come up with. -- SurveyGuy, 22:07:25 05/02/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15770
Patriot Raid
By Jason Halperin, AlterNet April 29, 2003

A month ago I experienced a very small taste of what hundreds of South Asian immigrants and U.S. citizens of South Asian descent have gone through since 9/11, and what thousands of others have come to fear. I was held, against my will and without warrant or cause, under the USA PATRIOT Act. While I understand the need for some measure of security and precaution in times such as these, the manner in which this detention and interrogation took place raises serious questions about police tactics and the safeguarding of civil liberties in times of war.

That night, March 20th, my roommate Asher and I were on our way to see the Broadway show "Rent." We had an hour to spare before curtain time so we stopped into an Indian restaurant just off of Times Square in the heart of midtown. I have omitted the name of the restaurant so as not to subject the owners to any further harassment or humiliation.

We helped ourselves to the buffet and then sat down to begin eating our dinner. I was just about to tell Asher how I'd eaten there before and how delicious the vegetable curry was, but I never got a chance. All of a sudden, there was a terrible commotion and five NYPD in bulletproof vests stormed down the stairs. They had their guns drawn and were pointing them indiscriminately at the restaurant staff and at us.

"Go to the back, go to the back of the restaurant," they yelled.

I hesitated, lost in my own panic.

"Did you not hear me, go to the back and sit down," they demanded.

I complied and looked around at the other patrons. There were eight men including the waiter, all of South Asian descent and ranging in age from late-teens to senior citizen. One of the policemen pointed his gun point-blank in the face of the waiter and shouted: "Is there anyone else in the restaurant?" The waiter, terrified, gestured to the kitchen.

The police placed their fingers on the triggers of their guns and kicked open the kitchen doors. Shouts emanated from the kitchen and a few seconds later five Hispanic men were made to crawl out on their hands and knees, guns pointed at them.

After patting us all down, the five officers seated us at two tables. As they continued to kick open doors to closets and bathrooms with their fingers glued to their triggers, no less than ten officers in suits emerged from the stairwell. Most of them sat in the back of the restaurant typing on their laptop computers. Two of them walked over to our table and identified themselves as officers of the INS and Homeland Security Department.

I explained that we were just eating dinner and asked why we were being held. We were told by the INS agent that we would be released once they had confirmation that we had no outstanding warrants and our immigration status was OK'd.

In pre-9/11 America, the legality of this would have been questionable. After all, the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized."

"You have no right to hold us," Asher insisted.

"Yes, we have every right," responded one of the agents. "You are being held under the Patriot Act following suspicion under an internal Homeland Security investigation."

The USA PATRIOT Act was passed into law on October 26, 2001 in order to facilitate the post 9/11 crackdown on terrorism (the name is actually an acronym: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act.") Like most Americans, I did not recognize the extent to which this bill foregoes our civil liberties. Among the unprecedented rights it grants to the federal government are the right to wiretap without warrant, and the right to detain without warrant. As I quickly discovered, the right to an attorney has been seemingly fudged as well.

When I asked to speak to a lawyer, the INS official informed me that I do have the right to a lawyer but I would have to be brought down to the station and await security clearance before being granted one. When I asked how long that would take, he replied with a coy smile: "Maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe a month."

We insisted that we had every right to leave and were going to do so. One of the policemen walked over with his hand on his gun and taunted: "Go ahead and leave, just go ahead."

We remained seated. Our IDs were taken, and brought to the officers with laptops. I was questioned over the fact that my license was out of state, and asked if I had "something to hide." The police continued to hassle the kitchen workers, demanding licenses and dates of birth. One of the kitchen workers was shaking hysterically and kept providing the day's date � March 20, 2003, over and over.

As I continued to press for legal counsel, a female officer who had been busy typing on her laptop in the front of the restaurant, walked over and put her finger in my face. "We are at war, we are at war and this is for your safety," she exclaimed. As she walked away from the table, she continued to repeat it to herself? "We are at war, we are at war. How can they not understand this."

I most certainly understand that we are at war. I also understand that the freedoms afforded to all of us in the Constitution were meant specifically for times like these. Our freedoms were carved out during times of strife by people who were facing brutal injustices, and were intended specifically so that this nation would behave differently in such times. If our freedoms crumble exactly when they are needed most, then they were really never freedoms at all.

After an hour and a half the INS agent walked back over and handed Asher and me our licenses. A policeman took us by the arm and escorted us out of the building. Before stepping out to the street, the INS agent apologized. He explained, in a low voice, that they did not think the two of us were in the restaurant. Several of the other patrons, though of South Asian descent, were in fact U.S. citizens. There were four taxi drivers, two students, one newspaper salesman � unwitting customers, just like Asher and me. I doubt, though, they received any apologies from the INS or the Department of Homeland Security.

Nor have the over 600 people of South Asian descent currently being held without charge by the Federal government. Apparently, this type of treatment is acceptable. One of the taxi drivers, a U.S. citizen, spoke to me during the interrogation. "Please stop talking to them," he urged. "I have been through this before. Please do whatever they say. Please for our sake."

Three days later I phoned the restaurant to discover what happened. The owner was nervous and embarrassed and obviously did not want to talk about it. But I managed to ascertain that the whole thing had been one giant mistake. A mistake. Loaded guns pointed in faces, people made to crawl on their hands and knees, police officers clearly exacerbating a tense situation by kicking in doors, taunting, keeping their fingers on the trigger even after the situation was under control. A mistake. And, according to the ACLU a perfectly legal one, thanks to the Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act is just the first phase of the erosion of the Fourth Amendment. From the Justice Department has emerged a draft of the Domestic Securities Enhancement Act, also known as Patriot II. Among other things, this act would allow the Justice Department to detain anyone, anytime, secretly and indefinitely. It would also make it a crime to reveal the identity or even existence of such a detainee.

Every American citizen, whether they support the current war or not, should be alarmed by the speed and facility with which these changes to our fundamental rights are taking place. And all of those who thought that these laws would never affect them, who thought that the Patriot Act only applied to the guilty, should heed this story as a wake-up call. Please learn from my experience. We are all vulnerable so speak out and organize, our Fourth Amendment rights depend upon it.

Jason Halperin lives in New York City and works at Doctors Without Borders/Medicins San Frontieres. If you are moved by this account, he asks that you consider donating to your local ACLU chapter.

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Dumber and dumber and dumber . . . No wonder no one knows how to punctuate or put together a coherent thought! What next -- "tribal Americans?" Will that then include the Jewish people? -- SurveyGuy, 15:06:29 04/30/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/30/132019
Wednesday, April 30, 2003
Educrats Ban Founding Fathers, Mount Rushmore, Hot Dogs, Yachts, Snowmen

If you wonder why children in America's failed government school monopolies aren't learning, perhaps it's because P.C.-crazed educrats are too busy acting as left-wing thought police.

Out in La-La Land, educrats are rewriting history to appease those who make a career of taking offense at reality. California's textbooks are being changed as follows, according to Fox News Channel:

� Even though all the signers of Constitution were specimens of those dreaded white males, "Founding Fathers" is a no-no, to be replaced by "The Framers."

� Pictures of naughty foods such as hot dogs, soft drinks, butter (even though that's better for you than margarine) and cake are banned.

� The euphemism "senior citizen," once politically correct, is now politically incorrect. The new P.C. term: "older person." Older than whom? Who knows?

� Mount Rushmore can't be mentioned because "it appears to offend" some American Indians. ("American Indians," of course, was long ago replaced by the silly term "native Americans," even though anyone born in the U.S. is a native American.)

� American Indians can't be depicted with long braids, in rural settings or on reservations, even though many American Indians have long braids and live in rural settings or on reservations.

� Snowmen aren't allowed. Snowpersons are. Hey, that could be part of sex ed.

� Yachts can't be mentioned. Too elitist.

� "Jungle" is banned; "rain forest" is the P.C. euphemism. (Are all references to "swamp" changed to "wetlands"?)

� "I think our textbooks should to our greatest capacity be free of any type of stereotyping," Sue Stickel, who is "deputy superintendent for curriculum and instruction" for the so-called California Department of Education, told Fox News. "We need to make sure that all ethnicities are represented. We need to make sure that both males and females are represented. We need to make sure that our materials cover the full gamut."

Others, however, know what is going on.

"It's outright censorship," said author Diane Ravitch, who has written extensively on this school issue. "It dumbs down our textbooks, makes them bland, far less interesting than anything children might see in the movies - even in G-rated movies or TV.

"The problems that have happened in education is that the textbook publishers and the test developers have become so sensitive to any controversy that whenever they receive a complaint it is very likely that they will remove the source of the complaint," explained Ravitch.

And what about the complaints of those who are offended by P.C. lunacy?

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Replies:
- If you want to scare the crap out of your local schools do what I do ... show up at the parent / teacher meetings, the PTA meetings, talk to them, ask questions, monitor the school board and don't forget to wear a shirt with a flag on it. Sniff around the textbooks, point out that programs that start in California almost always fail. Stick with your principles and stand your ground ... they respond to that. (NT) -- Surf, 18:17:51 04/30/03 Wed
- My "favorite" examples of PC nonsense are the guide books that lure innocent European tourists into South Central LA because they describe it as "colorful and vibrant.". Like the one I used for Boston, that said that Chinatown subway station was "near the Chinatown district", but didn't tell me that I would emerge at ground level into something like downtown Kinshasa. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 11:02:40 05/01/03 Thu
  - That's funny. I wonder of anyone would ever take a travel guide, follow it and then write a true guide with some humor. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:50:28 05/02/03 Fri
- Thankfully the "Lonely Planet" series is politically incorrect. When describing Italian cities they will tell you precisely where the Gypsy pickpockets operate, and how they use groups of their children as decoys. Meanwhile in the UK, the press refers to Gypsies as "Travellers" which is completely meaningless and misleading. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 11:07:51 05/01/03 Thu
i understand where you are coming from -- marc, 12:53:13 05/02/03 Fri (ip68-97-119-194.ok.ok.cox.net/68.97.119.194)
i understand the what you wrote. i do believe others feel somewhat skeptical to your piece. i do believe we only attack smaller weaker countries, but we are a very powerful country with little or no equals. there is a lot of hypocricy going around and trying to inform others about it does no good. some people only want to see the right side, the side that does no harm, with duties solely tied to justice, equally, and freedom. any hint of wrong doing is ignored, but, if it does occur, then it happens(the wrong doings) because and they really don't care.

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Replies:
- Who is the "you" that you are responding to? What are you responding to? To respopnd to a message click the reply link at the bottom of that message. Do not start a new thread to respond. No one has any idea to what you are referring. If you will repost in the proper place, in context,, your post may be understood rather than just be disassociated "noise." (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:47:59 05/02/03 Fri
wow you are ignorant -- anti-liberal, 00:06:27 04/30/03 Wed (adsl-67-66-176-230.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net/67.66.176.230)
Wow. You liberals are not very smart.I am reluctant to be a little mean but you are just downright ignorant .Liberals are evil. They are Anti-American and Anti-Freedom. If they had their way, we would all be dead or be worshipping Allah.I am extremely tired of your relentless attacks against our qualified president and your bias against white males. I have nothing against minorities. I have seen some very smart Mexicans and Blacks and others and would like to see more conservative ones.But do not wrongly accuse me of racism just because you need something to complain about. I love the U.S.A. and am unhappy how you decay it everyday.I am only 14 years old but I can see how wrong you illiberals are. That's all.

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Replies:
- Hello anti-liberal, can I just clarify one point. Allah is the arabic word for for God. Therefore anyone who worships one God is worshipping Allah. Muslim services are conducted in arabic and so they praise Allah, but arab Christians (e.g. Egyptian Coptics) also refer to Allah in their services. It's just the same as Greeks worshipping Theos, Roman Catholics (formerly) and Deus, Russians and Boq, Germans and Gott, French and Dieu, Spaniards and Dios etc. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, though obviously in very different ways. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:00:54 04/30/03 Wed
- It is difficult to tell whom you are addressing. That is why we use specific news items, the more biased, the better, in order to attempt to focus discussion. While it is good to see some passion, try to either agree or disagree with posts or post more than a rant. We have mostly conservatives, a few liberals and some libertarians posting here. Try to focus your perspectives on specific items if you can with either facts or opinion. Gott Sei dank that you have this forum. Now use it to become informed as well. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:41:58 04/30/03 Wed
- Thanks for your post -- after scrolling down through the PC (which I now think stands for Political Crap) I really enjoyed reading the words of a 14-year-old who had decided to think for him/herself and tell it like it is! Welcome to our little board and have some fun here! (NT) -- Spock, 13:03:23 05/01/03 Thu
The Wish -- a mythical tale in cartoon form -- SurveyGuy, 15:08:55 04/30/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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Oh, those U.N. jokesters!! Is it time to leave yet? -- SurveyGuy, 20:38:22 04/29/03 Tue (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/29/153038.shtml
U.S. Denounces Cuba's Re-election to U.N. 'Human Rights' Commission
NewsMax.com Wires and NewsMax.com Tuesday, April 29, 2003

WASHINGTON � The White House deplored Cuba's re-election today to the U.N. Human Rights Commission and likened it to placing the security of a bank in the hands of a mobster.
The appointment to the 53-member body by the United Nations Social and Economic Committee came on the heels of Havana sending more than 70 journalists, librarians and opposition leaders to prison.

"This is a setback for the cause of human rights," spokesman Ari Fleischer said. "Cuba does not deserve a seat on the Human Rights Commission. Cuba deserves to be investigated by the Human Rights Commission.

"We deplore the action. We will speak out against the action," he said.

The commission, chaired this year by prominent rights abuser Libya, includes the United States in its roster of members. The United States, however, had been voted off the commission the previous year.

The United States is a frequent critic of the abuses under Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

"The Human Rights Commission undermines its own credibility at the United Nations when they allow Cuba to get re-elected," Fleischer said. "The Human Rights Commission not only hurts the people of Cuba, but they hurt the very cause on which nations should sign up to serve on the Human Rights Commission."

Fleischer said that Cuba had earlier refused to let the commission's investigators enter the island police state. Its retention of its seat in the U.N. body "raises troubling issues," he noted.

U.S. relations with the United Nations have been under strain in recent months over the globalist body's refusal to enforce its resolutions and back military action against Iraq.

Still 'No Change' on U.S. Position Toward U.N.!

Fleischer said though the action by the Social and Economic Commission was deplorable, it would not affect the overall U.S. position in regard to the United Nations.

"There is no change in our overall position toward the United Nations," he said in answer to a reporter's question. "The United Nations continues to pursue other areas that do good around the world."

Although the U.N. once again gets a pass, U.S. officials are warning Havana that Washington will increase its efforts to end dictatorship, the Washington Times reported today.

The United States will use "new creativity and vigor to hasten the inevitable democratic transition on the island," said Roger Noriega, President Bush's choice for assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said: "Castro continued to do nothing but oppress, suppress his people, suppress opinion. And we're reviewing all of our policies."

Bush's special envoy Otto Reich said, "No one knows how many people rot in Castro's dungeons." He accused the dictator of mismanaging his economy to the point that Cuba was the "only country that has experienced a decline in caloric intake in the last 40 years."

Castro: U.S. Wants to Invade

Castro claims his abuses are America's fault. He said Friday on state-run Cuban TV that three men who tried to hijack a ferry April 2 to get to Florida were executed to prevent a wave of hijackings that could give Washington a pretext to invade.

The United States and Cuban exiles in Florida have a "warped plot" to create a crisis with Havana that could lead to military action against the island, he said.

"We had to pull the evil out by the roots," Castro said in his nearly four-hour rant Friday.

Copyright 2003 by United Press International.

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submitted for your consideration.... -- H_Bergeron, 01:50:23 04/29/03 Tue (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
an interesting article from Jerry Pournelle

Governing Iraq

It's the standard cliche,

"we won the war, now comes the hard part."

So. What do we do now?
How can we build democracy in Iraq?

Is there a chance for success?

Middle Class Rule

Aristotle defines democracy as rule by the middle class,
the middle class being those who possess the goods of fortune in moderation.
There have been a lot of other definitions of democracy, but that one endures:
it has been a characteristic of every working democracy that lasted long enough to make the history books.
The implications are worth examining.

First, note that nothing has been said about religion, birth, military ability,
family connections, or anything else but property.

The ruling class is defined by an economic condition:
and that condition is the possession of property, not excessive amounts of property but not zero either.

Marx said that history would end only when the proletariat -- those who had no property --
became rulers and everything was held in common or owned by the state.
He made no distinction between those conditions.
The end result of Marxism has been rule by the nomenklatura, Djilas's "New Class",
everywhere it has been tried, and there is no reason to suppose it won't work that way every time.
When the state is the sole employer, dissent means starvation,
and power comes only from climbing the political ladder.

Most states that have tried democracy by enfranchising the proletariat
have ended with "one man, one vote, once,"
after which a strong man takes charge and ends the electoral process.
We then have rule by one party, such as the Baath,
or maybe rule by the bogeymen as they demonstrated in Haiti.
Incidentally, it may not be true that Haiti was as well off under Papa Doc,
Baby Doc, and the Tonton Macout as it is under the US-imposed thugs,
but I haven't seen any evidence contradicting that proposition.
Our nation-building experiments in this hemisphere don't augur well for what's going to happen in the Middle East.

The task, then, is to empower middle class in Iraq. Can this be done?

Well, on the plus side, Iraq has a middle class.
There are people there who own property, and many are well educated.
Most are literate. They're not all proletarians and thugs.
On the other hand, Iraq has never had a democracy,
and the middle class in Iraq has never had any power.
Ever.

Empowering people who have never had any experience of governing is a
tricky proposition at best.

Can You Afford To Lose?

The central question in a democracy is, can you afford to lose the election?
If you try and fail, is loss total?
Will you be jailed, your property confiscated, your family jailed or killed?
If the consequences of
loss are enormous, then you don't let the ballot box
be the final decision. Nor should you.

The first thing we must do is assure the losers they can afford to lose, and that we will be there to protect them.

read the rest of the article here

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Replies:
- Jerry Pournelle used to write for Byte Magazine (an ancient computer periodical), if it is the same guy. Now he's pontificating on politics. Interesting. I guess we should all try to be flexible. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:14:37 04/29/03 Tue
This may explain a lot . . . -- SurveyGuy, 18:37:38 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
World Press Sees Different War
Christopher Ruddy
Thursday, April 17, 2003

With America triumphant, we should not become America na�ve.
As we have watched continuous coverage of our liberation of Saddam�s Iraq, we need to pinch ourselves and remember that much of the world, especially the Arab world, does not view this war as we do.

In fact, I can only believe that press reports have fanned anti-American sentiment.

Let�s start with the European press.

While Americans see images of Iraqis cheering on American and Coalition troops, Europeans see a story of anger and defiance.

Just this week, Agence France-Presse (AFP) published a story claiming U.S. Marines had massacred a dozen innocent Iraqis.

AFP continued:

�Many Iraqis fear US plans for the future of Iraq and popular anger has been mounting over the widespread anarchy and chaos since Saddam was toppled last Wednesday. That anger was visible in Nasiriyah as the crowd marched through the street chanting �Yes to freedom ... Yes to Islam ... No to America, No to Saddam.� Such anger was also visible in the northern city of Mosul, when a firefight broke out as the newly appointed governor was making a speech which listeners deemed was too pro-US, witnesses said.�

In Coalition partner Britain, Robert Fisk of the Independent has been reporting Iraq as a cauldron of American-made disaster.

Though an Arabist, Fisk is a highly respected journalist.

Earlier this week, he fired off a report detailing how every major Iraqi government ministry in Baghdad was being looted and trashed without any American or British protection � except two. The two offices Fisk said had massive U.S. military protection were the Interior Department�s offices, home of the Secret Police, and the Ministry of Oil. Of course, such stories will be cited as anecdotal evidence that we invaded for oil.

In Fisk�s most recent report, he railed against the destruction of Iraq�s treasured libraries.

Fisk wrote: �So yesterday was the burning of books. First came the looters, then the arsonists. It was the final chapter in the sacking of Baghdad.�

According to Fisk, �The National Library and Archives � a priceless treasure of Ottoman historical documents, including the old royal archives of Iraq � were turned to ashes in 3,000 degrees of heat. Then the library of Korans at the Ministry of Religious Endowment was set ablaze.�

He then added ominously, �And the Americans did nothing.�

Such reports are also now widespread in the very anti-American Arab press.

UPI editor Arnaud de Borchgrave says that �the looting disaster at Baghdad's National Museum of Iraq � and the wanton destruction of 5,000 years of history � is already being described as proof the Bush administration is on a campaign to eradicate all vestiges of Islam and before Islam the history of the cradle of civilization.�

The Arab press is full of exaggeration, but still widely believed.

Here�s another report given credence from online ArabNews.com: �... Baghdad and a number of other Iraqi cities should be shelled with chemical bombs. Yes, that is the truth; Baghdad has been battered with chemical bombs and bombs carrying highly combustible depleted uranium. ... Aside from these munitions, advanced cluster bombs carrying ethylene gas have also been used. They are called MOABs, or massive ordnance airburst bombs, and they are essentially chemical bombs.

And if the �suffering� of the Iraqi people is not enough, news channel Al-Jazeera says the Iraq war has wounded the Arab world�s economy.

Citing a U.N. meeting in Beirut, the Arab TV service said, �The U.S.-led war on Iraq could cost as much as $1 trillion in lost production in Arab countries. ...�

Despite America�s best intentions, our many adversaries, both in Europe and the Arab world, want to win the war against America in the hearts and minds of the world.

Because it is a high-tech superpower, there was never any doubt of America�s victory. But we have seen smashing American victories turned to mush. The Tet offensive in Vietnam was a major American victory. Later, it became the beginning of the end of America�s disastrous involvement in Vietnam.

The ground war has been won, but the propaganda war has just begun.

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Replies:
- This says it all: "He (Fisk) then added ominously, "And the Americans did nothing." That is the whole story, isn't it? It is all about America. The Iraqis were being thugs and destructive but it was the Americans who are to be blamed. Right! America is always the one to blame! Notice that it was Iraqis who were filmed looting and pilaging, burning and trashing. Of course we must not say "The Iraqis were trashing their own country; trashing their own libraries; trashing their own hospitals; trashing their own museums, etc." Don't say that. Blame the US instead. (NT) -- William, 19:40:31 04/20/03 Sun
  - Actually many of the museum looters seem to be from elsewhere, caught trying to cross Syrian border. Some of the locals have returned what they took. (Why isnl't the U.S. watching the road to Damascus . . . or are they? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:01:34 04/20/03 Sun
    - SurveyGuy, are the looters from State College, Detroit, Cincinati, East LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago? I heard some were from the Rodney King rioters as well as the celebrants from the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers championship team celebrants and other sports team celebrants. Looting is the new way to celebrate victory. (NT) -- William, 12:28:44 04/22/03 Tue
  - Now the Americans are doing something about looters - http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2003/04/25/367175.html - stripping them naked and writing "Ali Baba - thief" on their chest. This is how we demonstrate the superiority of our civilisation and society. And then we wonder why they want us out. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:12:09 04/27/03 Sun
    - ***Sorry, I cannot find a translator for that page. The Dutch translator didnlt work. Is it Finnish or Norwegian? In either case, please provide a way to translate to English or nothing can be learned. I tried several translators but do not have time to make this a project. (NT) -- SG, 15:30:24 04/28/03 Mon
    - P.S. The pictures look mighty suspicious. The chest writing is in Arabic. Not very many of our soldiers can speak or wirte Arabic. To what end? Seems totally alien. More propaganda? This makes no sense. Especially since the pictures do not seem to show the soldiers confining anyone. (NT) -- SG, 15:37:34 04/28/03 Mon
- Got to be politically correct, you know. It is fashionable to blame the US for everything. Don't blame the real cuplrits, in this case, the rabid masses of Iraqis with no respect and no self control!
  Hey, Fisk, and all you other Arab and European anti-American liars, instigators, excuse makers, and placaters, wake up! Stop covering for the thugs. The US is not to blame for Iraqis and other Arab idiots! Blame them for their own lack of self control and for their rabid behavior. In the mean time, kiss my ass you idiots! (NT) -- William, 19:43:02 04/20/03 Sun
So much for integrity of reporters in the U.K. and Arab countries, and quite a few here, no doubt. More details should emerge on this, I would hope . . . -- SurveyGuy, 21:39:51 04/27/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/27/142203
Sunday April 27, 2003; 2:18 p.m. EDT
Chalabi: American Moles Recruited by Saddam

The man backed by many in the Bush administration to head Baghdad's postwar government said Sunday that documents uncovered over the weekend show that Saddam Hussein tried to recruit U.S. citizens to undermine the Bush adminsitration's war effort in Iraq.

"We have captured a great many files of Saddam's services and there is astounding information about the extent of their networks and their efforts to recruit foreign nationals - including Americans - to work in the Mukabahrat [Iraqi intelligence service]," said Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress.

"I think that this is something that must be pursued," Chalabi told "Fox News Sunday." "The files contain a great deal of information about how [Iraqi intelligence] compromised people, how they bought agents and how they influenced foreign leaders."

While Chalabi declined to name names, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol suggested a few minutes later that U.S. journalists as well as elected officials were among those targeted by Saddam's Mukabahrat recruiters.

Discussing the case of George Galloway, the antiwar British politician who allegedly took over a million dollars from Baghdad, Kristol said that Galloway was "the tip of the iceberg."

"There were reporters - including many Arab reporters - who were on Saddam's payroll," he told "Fox News Sunday's" Tony Snow.

The Weekly Standard editor singled out the Al Jazeera television network, which was sympathetic to both Saddam Hussein and 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden.

"Saddam showered gifts [on reporters]... Mercedes limousines would show up at the homes of various journalists in Jordan, Egypt, etc.," Kristol claimed.

He added that the recipients of Baghdad's largesse may also have included "other Western politicians, perhaps, [who] were on the take."

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Replies:
- Gee Al Jeezera was being paid by Saddam, what next the sun rises in the east? I'm shocked. [/sarcasm] (NT) -- Surf, 09:45:08 04/28/03 Mon
Humor is the result of shock and disappointment, according to the Al-Majallah newspaper . . . read on . . . [I didn't get the one about underground Baghdad. Maybe it's a cultural idiom.] -- SurveyGuy, 20:29:53 04/27/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32270
WND.COMEDY
Arabs go wild for Saddam jokes
Bush, Blair, Putin all part of Internet humor in Egypt
Posted: April 27, 2003 6:12 p.m. Eastern � 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

"Saddam, why did you disappear?"

Response: "I decided to destabilize the enemy by splitting up his search parties."

Saddam Hussein may be out of power in Iraq, but his legacy is still alive among Internet jokes being passed around by Arabs in Egypt.

According to the Al-Majallah newspaper, the fall of Baghdad has given rise to humor, reflecting the shock and disappointment of people who thought Iraq would offer greater resistance.

It reportedly began with a message asking people to check CNN for Saddam's resignation � on condition that he live in the White House. Then other messages featured a photo of the dictator with a caption reading "Seeking employment pending fall of regime."

Al-Majallah says some of the jokes were in question and answer format:

Saddam asks Bin Laden, what do I do when it's over? Bin Laden said: Hide in a cave, record some tapes and send them to Al-Jazeera.

Saddam, how are you going to hang the Americans from the walls of Baghdad? Saddam says: I didn't mean the city, I meant underground Baghdad."

The Iraqi information minister Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, better known as "Baghdad Bob," is even featured in some of the jokes.

Have you heard the one about Saddam and Sahhaf on the banks of the Tigris? A man on the other side raises two fingers in a victory sign. "What happened?' asks Saddam. "Did we win the war?" "Don't be stupid,� Sahhaf says. "He means there�s just two of us left."
Saddam isn't the sole target of the jokes. President Bush and other westerners are prominently featured, according to the report.

Bush and Blair are giving a press conference. "Right," Bush says, "we're going to kill two million Iraqis and one construction worker."
Question from the press: "Why do you want to kill a construction worker?" Bush leans over to Blair and whispers: "Told you nobody gives a damn about the two million Iraqis."

Bush, Blair and Saddam gathered one day on the banks of the Euphrates River. Bush asked his secret service to dive in and bring him a crocodile. The agents say: "Sorry sir, no can do � we have wives and kids to look after."
Blair tries, same result: "Sorry sir, no can do � we have wives and kids to look after."

Then it's Saddam's turn, and all the agents jump in and bring him lots of crocodiles. Bush and Blair say: "How did you do that?" And Saddam says: "I have their wives and kids to look after."

Saddam, Bush and Russia's Vladimir Putin are swimming in the Arabian Gulf when a giant whale appears.
Bush says: "If you eat me, my warships will destroy you."

Putin says: "If you eat me, my missiles will destroy you."

They swim hard to the shore and escape by the skin of their teeth, only to find Saddam waiting on the beach.

"How did you get here so fast?" they ask.

Saddam says: "I told him my name, and he spit me out on the beach."

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A few quotes about France, Iraq, US, etc. -- William, 17:37:40 03/09/03 Sun (cache-dq01.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.133)

"Power corrupts, but so does weakness. And absolute weakness corrupts absolutely. We are now living through the most critical watershed of the postwar period, with enormous moral and strategic issues at stake, and the only answer many Europeans offer is to constrain and contain American power. So by default they end up on the side of Saddam, in an intellectually corrupt position." Josef Joffe, editor Die Zeit

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right." Rush Limbaugh

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." David Letterman

"If Europe were to apply as much pressure on Saddam Hussein as (it) does on the United States and Britain, I think we could prevent war." Elie Wiesel

"Those unconvinced by the existing evidence [against Iraq] will be convinced by nothing less than their actual use against our military or civilians. To hell with those people." Bill Whittle

[ Post a Reply to this Message ][Edit]

Replies:
- And now, for 10 points, which of the above quotes comes from an elected leader of his country, and which come from pundits who never had to put their reputation to the vote? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 23:58:50 03/09/03 Sun
  - Here's a clue - who would you LEAST like to be in charge of YOUR deal? (NT) -- JL, 21:38:46 03/13/03 Thu
- For a further 10 points, which of the above actually served their country's armed forces in a war, as opposed to following the heroic career of journalism. It's sad how the most macho-mouthing people never spent time in a foxhole. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 00:31:53 03/10/03 Mon
  - And for a bonus 5 points, which of these leaders actually has front-line experience of a war - Bush Jnr., Blair, Chirac? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 01:56:24 03/10/03 Mon
  - Chris, your statement "It's sad how the most macho-mouthing people never spent time in a foxhole," is claiming facts not in evidence. That is pure conjecture on your part. Many who do support military action against Iraq and other regimes in action to deal with Islamofascist militant terrorist threats did serve in the military. I served in full time active duty in the military. I do not think that it is only those who did serve who know when it is time for war or peace. Many who demonize the US never spent time in a fox hole and there are also some who did serve in uniform. (NT) -- William, 22:57:47 03/10/03 Mon
- And now, for 50 points, how much of your complaints could justly be turned back on you? Since when is someone in this country required to be in the military or gov't in order to weigh in publicly on issues? It certainly doesn't stop Whinocrats. (NT) -- Spock, 11:03:31 03/14/03 Fri
- War Without France -- Jack Atherton, 16:02:38 04/27/03 Sun
Revealed: How the road to war was paved with lies Intelligence agencies accuse Bush and Blair of distorting and fabricating evidence in rush to war By Raymond Whitaker - http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=400805 - Just in case anyone thinks that Bush and Blair were honest about their motives in attacking Iraq. This may turn out to be the "Lie of the Century". -- Chris Henry, 05:07:45 04/27/03 Sun (NoHost/212.138.47.11)

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Replies:
- I've already said it -- the first casualty ... etc. If anyone thinks that the motives of the countries against it were totally honest either needs a reality check or a hycolonic . (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:14:44 04/27/03 Sun
This bill has been introduced every year for the past 20 years, but this time it may even get discussed . . . but we'll see. If we don't declare the U.N. obsolete now, we never will. -- SurveyGuy, 08:47:12 04/25/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32232
THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
New push to 'get U.S. out of U.N.'
Congressmen ask for House floor vote during time of disdain for global body
by Cheryl K. Chumley � 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A concerted effort is underway to push Congress to consider the complete withdrawal of the United States from the United Nations.

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, began the drive April 16 with a letter to House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's office requesting that H.R. 1146, the American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2003, be brought to the floor for a vote rather than proceed through the normal committee process. The measure, introduced by Paul March 6, requests the United States cease further participation with the United Nations � including funding.

[Snipped . . . click here to go to full article]

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Replies:
- Does everyone know who Dr. Ron Paul of Texas is? He ran for president as a Libertarian. (NT) -- SG, 08:48:32 04/25/03 Fri
Lies, regrets and anti-semitism ... yup, France again. I find it difficult to believe any boycotting has had any affect this quickly, but maybe the intensity just surprised everyone. -- SurveyGuy, 20:28:38 04/23/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2003/4/16/100520
Wednesday, April 16, 2003

French Finally Admit Boycott Hurts

At least the French have stopped lying about one thing: They finally admit that the American boycott is hitting them where it counts.

"The nation's principal business federation took the unusual step of publicly acknowledging the problem, conceding today that sales, recruitment and business contacts have been hurt," the Washington Post reported today.

Previously the Frogs kept claiming that the boycott led by NewsMax.com and other organizations was not affecting them. Now they're so worried that their Federation of Wine Exporters has called a meeting Thursday to fret over what to do.

Importers of French products say the boycott has had a "significant" effect, the Post revealed. Patricia Carreras, president of IC&A Inc., a home-decor business in New York that imports only French products, said sales had fallen a whopping 40 to 50 percent since February.

"It's a very, very deep reaction. We would never have expected something so lasting. I think it has been accelerating even in the last four weeks," complained Carreras, who is French.

"Certain French enterprises are suffering today from the differences that have arisen among states over the Iraqi question," said Movement of French Enterprises. "It is necessary to say to those who are unhappy with the positions of French diplomacy that they are free to criticize, but they must keep products and services of our enterprises outside their quarrel."

Oh, we must? Sorry, we don't take orders from the yellow French. They're free to keep trying to foist their stinky cheeses and ripoff water and third-rate death-trap cars on the public, and we're free to refuse to buy those products and advise others to do likewise.

Guillaume Touton, a French wine importer in New York, says that Americans' disgust with the Frogs cost him $500,000 in sales last month. "We want to send the message to the French side to please do something. Or, if you don't want to do anything, then please shut up," he said.

Now that's something we call all agree on.

France's Biggest Lie of the Month

More Frog news: France is in such a dither over its disastrous support for genocidal maniac Saddam Hussein that Chirac's ruling party today issued one of its biggest whoppers ever: that Paris is Washington's "best ally" in the fight against terrorism!

"We continue to think, as paradoxical as it might sound, that we are the best allies of the Americans, because we are preoccupied by the same reality: terrorism," claimed Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, spokesman for Chirac's Union for a Popular Movement.

Considering how France has failed to curb the rise of radical Islam among its huge Arab population and has done little to stop rampant acts of violence against its Jewish population, that's a hot one.

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Replies:
- OOO-rah!!! Power to the People! : ) WHO SAYS we must keep their 'products and services' outside of the quarrel? Ain't that the point, Jacques? Econ 101 for Dummies: Don't piss of the hand that feeds ya. (NT) -- JL, 20:50:11 04/23/03 Wed
  - Speaking of hand-biting, how 'bout them Iraqi religious fanatics? And then there's the U.N. leadership .... when will we kick them out? Ron Paul introduced a bill to that effect in Congress. I don't expect anything to come of it, with all of the whining liberals, but hopefully it will lead to some mainstream discussion, even though we've been saying that for years. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 08:40:44 04/25/03 Fri
Speaking of liars and politicians . . . yet I have to applaud Chuck Schumer in this instance. I do remember how moved he was. Too bad he will probably revert. -- SurveyGuy, 17:45:33 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/20/143224
Sunday, April 20, 2003 2:30 p.m. EDT
Steven Brill: Hillary Fabricated 9/11 Records

New York Sen. Hillary Clinton had her staff fabricate records of meetings and phone calls to familles of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks to burnish her image as New York's leading politician on 9/11 issues, the author of a new book on how U.S. officials dealt with the aftermath of the attacks charged Sunday.

"I think [Sen. Clinton] has begun every statement she's ever made in her life about the families of the victims by saying she's met innumerable hours with the families of the victims," Steven Brill, author of the new book "After: How America Confronted the September 12 Era," told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg.

To support Mrs. Clinton's claims of 9/11 victim service for his book, Brill said her staff tried to persuade him that she worked overtime to help, providing "an elaborate story, with an elaborate subtext of memos and phone calls - a long, long story."

But, says the author, "None of it turned out to be true. ... They gave me documents and phone calls and things like that which just plain never happened."

Brill, who defended the Clintons throughout the Monica Lewinsky impeachment scandal, said that efforts to mislead him began after the former first lady got word he was writing his 9/11 book. She actually sought him out at the Ground Zero ceremony commemorating the first anniversary of the attacks. "I hear you want to talk to me about your book," he recalls her saying.

"We had this discussion which she insisted be off the record," Brill said. But he added, "She did follow up in one non-off-the-record conversation, urging me that the person responsible for aid to New York City was not [Sen.] Chuck Schumer but Hillary Clinton."

Brill said he was astonished that Clinton would go to such lengths to fabricate a phony record of 9/11 service "all in the cause, actually, of shooting down Chuck Schumer getting a bunch of pages in a book."

"It sort of takes your breath away when you think about it," he told Malzberg.

The author detailed the saga of one family in particular, the Cartiers, who lost a relative in the Twin Towers collapse.

"This family had tried repeatedly to get Hillary Clinton to meet with them," Brill said. "And always the staff said: 'Write up a memo. We don't meet with any families unless they write to us first and tell us what they want to meet about.'"

"They said to me, the Cartiers - and these are not, you know, people who are political - that the only time families can meet with Hillary Clinton is if it's at a press conference."

Meanwhile, said Brill, Sen. Schumer took time out on a Sunday to meet with the Cartiers - "no reporters, no cameras, no nothing."

The former publisher of "Brill's Content" magazine said that then-Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Schumer worked to give the Cartier family access to Ground Zero and to Fresh Kills, the Staten Island recovery site, so they could search for their relative's remains.

The former Clinton defender also cast doubt on the authenticity of an account offered by Chelsea Clinton, who told reporters after the attacks that she was so close to the Twin Towers collapse that she feared for her life.

"There are people on Schumer's staff who say that Chelsea kept moving south [toward Ground Zero] the more the press kept reporting that [Schumer's daughter Jessica] really was at Stuyvesant High School," just five blocks away from Ground Zero, he said.

Of Sen. Clinton's attempts to garner praise for helping 9/11 victims, Brill said, "What stunned me is that one person would try to steal away the credit from the other person, especially when everything I was hearing from the families is that Schumer" had helped far more.

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Replies:
- So, what else is new? Of course, based on Hillary's past behavior I have not doubt that she is positioning for praise that she did not earn and does not deserve. I do believe that she has a fetish for being in front of the cameras in on the front page of the newspaper and television news. She would run down a group of kindergarten students crossing the street at a controlled intersection in order to get herself before the press to make create a press opportunity for herself. (NT) -- William, 19:51:27 04/20/03 Sun
- No surprises here. Scum is as scum does. The Klintoon disgrace and deception still attempts to carry the day, but now it is seen for what is truly is. The legacy of Vince 'Three Shots to the Back of the Head Suicide' Foster lingers. Little changes with these vermin. (NT) -- JL, 23:08:46 04/21/03 Mon
  - Unfortunately, knee-jerk liberals still think Gore should have won the election, don't understand the role of the Supreme Court, have been trained to parrot that anything Conservative is bad, won't question for themselves but will buy any false argument placed before them for anything, and have very short memories. Most still think the dislike for Clinton was "about sex." No matter how m any times he put our national securioty in jeopardy. A few former liberals/Democrats have awakened, but I fear too many stupid people out there. Ever watch the show "Street Smarts?" Pretty scarey stuff. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:54:13 04/22/03 Tue
    - Although there are certainly 'knee jerks' on both sides, the absolute unquestioning loyalty of leftists to the corruption and (continued) deceit is just amazing. They will try and try, but will not be allowed to re-write history. (NT) -- JL, 20:44:52 04/23/03 Wed
Anyone want to weigh in on a topic Jeff Katz brought up the other day?....that of a push to legislate public schoolchildren's behavior. -- Spock, 12:30:34 04/16/03 Wed (user-vc8fm1s.biz.mindspring.com/216.135.216.60)
I think it's in Connecticut somewhere he was talking about.

It's quite a debate. Apparently they want to actually pass legislation that will actually make it illegal for a child to decline to play with another who asks. It will also be illegal for a child to bully another -- and the definition of "bully" is rather broad, to include even mere teasing, not just physical roughing up. Who thinks up these things?

There were callers who were saying they agreed with making bullying illegal, because they were given a hard time when they were in school. Katz was trying to make the point that kids are going to be kids, regardless, and we can't make it illegal for nature following its course.

Nobody likes to be teased, much less physically intimidated or abused. But whatever happened to just punishing deviant behavior? If a bully punches a kid, he's appropriately punished for assaulting another. End of story. That's what happened when I was growing up and it seemed to work fine.

My family moved a lot when I was a kid, so I was often "the new kid" -- plus I was a nerd. It was horrible to be made fun of, but you learn to determine who your real friends are that way. And you learn by practice the "do unto others as you would have them do to you" rule, i.e., I refrain from certain kinds of jokes because I know what it's like to be the butt of them.

My question is how do they plan to actually monitor and maintain such legislation? Install full-blown Big Brother?

My other question is what about parental responsibility (and accountability) to teach (and consistently reinforce) their kids common decency and respect? And I know single parents who have raised good kids too, so I don't buy that as a disclaimer.

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Replies:
- This is a late April Fool's jok, right? But seriously, when parnts enroll their kids in school they sign a document wherein many parental rights are waived and given to the school system. Don't be surprised at some of the proposed "remedies." (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 13:28:45 04/16/03 Wed
  - Sadly, this is no joke. And predictably, it IS in CT (my sweetie hails from this bastion of idiocy, so I am fairly well informed about their doings). Typical New England PCBS. I guess the newest entitlement is to a 'bully-less childhood'? Gimme a break. Both sides of bullying suck, but are part of the learning experience, IMHO. (NT) -- JL (bullied - and then a bully once I grew to almost 6'), 21:19:42 04/16/03 Wed
    - One could argue thatthe school district is "bullying" the parents with this. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 08:53:18 04/17/03 Thu
      - No. Unfortunately, the vast left wing idiocy that would be modern day CT just eats this shit up. Right up their alley. I know the only normal people who live there, IMHO. (NT) -- JL, 23:12:08 04/21/03 Mon
        
        People who give up their rights thinking they'll get something in return are just plain stupid. Unfortunately those who want to retain their rights, have them swept away. I wish I had the sone "Wooley Bully" to insert right here. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Starting to think Social Darwinism isn't such a bad idea.), 19:59:06 04/22/03 Tue
New Age Liberal Prayer for the New World Order Global Village -- William, 12:22:55 04/22/03 Tue (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)
Prayer of the Liberal Elite

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Is Fox biting the hand that feeds it? -- H_Bergeron, 00:56:36 04/19/03 Sat (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
From the Taipei Times
Al-Jazeera TV gets fees from footage used by Fox, NBC

BLOOMBERG
Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003,Page 12
Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel, criticized by US officials for its war coverage, is a favorite with rivals worldwide. The Arab-language network pays most of its expenses with fees it collects from other channels that use its news footage.
Executives at News Corp's Fox News Channel, Viacom Inc's CBS and General Electric Co's NBC said their companies pay al-Jazeera for the right to use whatever footage they choose, from exclusive video of Baghdad to captured US soldiers. The US-based broadcasters declined to say how much they pay.
The fees are enough to keep al-Jazeera, started in 1996 by Qatar's emir with a US$150 million investment, from having to ask its benefactor for more money, according to Al-Jazeera's marketing chief, Jihad Ali Ballout.
The agreements with US networks are "a beautiful thing," Ballout said in an interview. "It not only generates money, but it puts us in bed with reputable partners."
read the rest of the articlehere

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Replies:
- Not surprising, they get some good material, stuff you won't see on other channels because it conflicts with their views. Often it's not for the squeamish. Some of the newsreels of the Israeli Army's attacks are horrific, but stations in the West don't show them for some reason. Rumsfeld doesn't like Al Jazeera because it showed POW footage - he forgot that nations sign the Geneva Convention, not TV stations. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:24:28 04/19/03 Sat
  - Lie down with dogs; get up with fleas. Al Jazeera knew better and so did the other news services that showed it later. Many decided it was not news but propaganda and refrained. I would hope that decent news services would end their contracts with AJ but they won't. CNN will be the real test of how blatant overt bias and disreputible practices can turn viewers elsewhere. CNN may need to reorganize with new leadership, less in bed with those they report, or refrain from, reporting on. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 14:26:43 04/20/03 Sun
    - Sounds like CNN doesn't have any friends anywhere! Certainly the Arab view is that it's strongly pro-US. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:42:14 04/21/03 Mon
      - CNN may as well be an arm of the DNC. Those who have been paying attention call it the Clinton News Network. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 09:18:31 04/21/03 Mon
Lack of French backing US on war in Iraq -- A Willie, 14:48:48 04/19/03 Sat (wiley-91-18596.roadrunner.nf.net/205.251.191.129)
I was really disturbed by the fact that France will not agree with the decision on the US going after Iraq, it was the french who can thank the United States and other countries for helping them to rid their country of Nazi Germany occupation during WWII so they can enjoy the freedom they have today, Now they have the audacity to not return the favor and not help us rid the world of another evil dictator. At least this time the world woke up and did something before it happened again.

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Replies:
- It was actually not just France but 9 countries on the Security Council that opposed the war. The only ones in support were US, UK, Spain. That's why the resolution was not put to the vote, and the US and UK started an illegal war based on WMD's that have yet to be located. Resolution 1441 and all the other resolutions do not mention anything about getting rid of dictators. If the UK and US really wanted to do that, they would also be going after North Korea, China, Myanmar, Zimbabwe etc... (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:16:45 04/20/03 Sun
  - Let's not forget some 40-odd other countries not on the security council. What is shows is how useless the security council is. Since France did not need to lobby so vociferously, just vote, why do Europeans wonder at our finally giving up on France. Their collusion with the Iraq regime is disgusting. So is the U.S.'s past attempts to appease Saddam and other tyrants. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I don't think I'd vote to liberate France today), 17:18:44 04/20/03 Sun
- I'm sure the French are grateful to the US and other countries for their liberation. The country that did the most in that respect was the Soviet Union, which lost 20 million civilians and soldiers fighting the Nazis, and so weakened them on the Eastern Front that the Western front campaign was relatively quick. The UK also "stood alone" through 1940 and 1941 and therefore provided the springboard for that liberation. The US provided 60% of the forces in the Normandy landings, alongside British, Canadians, ANZ's, Free French and Poles, contrary to the impression given by "Private Ryan". (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:27:37 04/20/03 Sun
- The Brits (where I am at the moment) will always gleefully point out that on average, the US came into a World War about 3 years after everyone else, to claim the glory once Germany had already been "softened up"! They're very amused by all the Hollywood films that disregard any other country's contribution to these wars, especially U-571 which has the US capturing the Enigma code, not HMS Bulldog as in real life. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:43:22 04/20/03 Sun
  - Hollywood is guilty as charged but was the end of the war the cause or the effect of American entrance? How exactly did the French/Belgiums/Dutch /Norwegians/Danes/Poles soften up the Germans? (NT) -- Chez, 07:57:29 04/20/03 Sun
    - Yes they would, but clearly it would have taken longer. The unanswered (unanswerable?) question, though, is whether the wars would have ended earlier than 1918 and 1945 if the US had come in at the start. It's something the Brits would have liked very much; Churchill spent a lot of time trying to win over Roosevelt. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 14:12:45 04/20/03 Sun
      - Chris, the US did help bring an end to WW II and defeat the Nazi and Musollini. Try as you will you can not deny that. Hitler did make the same mistake as Napolean did when he tried to march on Moscow during the winter so he did make a tactical error. Nevertheless do you remember what took place at Normandy and "D" day? Thousands of US soldiers and other allied soldiers died invading that day which eventually led to the liberation of France and the defeat of Germany. The US does deserve praise for saving France, Russia, and others. Without the US, Hitler would most likely have won. (NT) -- William, 20:22:13 04/20/03 Sun
        
        I absolutely agree with your first sentence - that's what I said in my posting above, I certainly didn't deny it. Last sentence? Hmmm, I would debate that, although the war would certainly have lasted longer. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:39:45 04/21/03 Mon
  - British and Russian contributions are well documented and both fought valiantly but are you saying you think they could have defeated the Germans without the US help? (NT) -- Chez, 08:03:05 04/20/03 Sun
- There's also a lot of puzzlement in Europe as to why we are picking on the French all the time, when Russia and China were equally opposed and equally likely to use the veto. The "le Monde" newspaper said, very unkindly, that it may be related to the size of those other countries. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 04:48:40 04/20/03 Sun
  - It is because of their affinity for two savage murderers, Ira Einhorn and Mumia Abu-Jamal and all other things left of center... (NT) -- Chez, 07:51:10 04/20/03 Sun
  - Chirac went out of his way to try to sabotage as well as insult. This is just the culmination of years of being not only unhelpful, but arrogant and insulting. The rise of anit-semitism in France as well indicates that the French no longer control France. As Chez pointed out, they also blocked extradition of a convicted murderer for some time until even they couldnlt endure the stench. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 10:35:24 04/20/03 Sun
As evidence is revealed, the picture gets more disturbing . . . will the explanations be revealing as well? Only time will tell. -- SurveyGuy (not surprised, but disappointed), 17:24:36 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
German spies aided Saddam?
Documents seized in Baghdad point to ties with Iraq's intelligence service

Documents recovered from the bombed Iraqi intelligence headquarters in Baghdad reveal Germany's intelligence services attempted to build closer ties to Saddam's secret service during the build-up to war last year, according to a report in the London Telegraph.

The documents point to a meeting on January 29, 2002 between an agent named as Johannes William Hoffner and Lt. Gen. Taher Jalil Haboosh, the director of Iraq's intelligence service.

Haboosh indicates the Iraqis are anxious to cultivate a relationship with Germany's intelligence agency ''under diplomatic cover," and offers to give lucrative contracts to German companies if Berlin helps prevent an American invasion of Iraq. He also urges Hoffner to lobby the German government to raise its diplomatic mission in Baghdad to full ambassadorial level, according to the Telegraph.

''When the American conspiracy is finished, we will make a calculation for each state that helps Iraq in its crisis,'' Haboosh says. He indicates he hoped to forge the relationship through Hoffner, who replies: ''My organization wants to develop its relationship with your organization.''

Haboosh also tells the German agent Iraq has ''big problems'' with Britain and the United States. ''We have problems with Britain because it occupied Iraq for 60 years and with America because of its aggression for 11 years,'' he says.

The meeting between the Iraqi and German agents took place some six months before Chancellor Schroeder's government began its policy of direct opposition to the idea of a U.S.-led war against Iraq. Schroeder was re-elected last September, largely because of the popularity of his government's outspoken opposition to the war.

The revelations about Iraq's ties to German intelligence come a week after The Telegraph reported Russia had spied for the Iraqis, passing them intelligence about a meeting between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister. Both the British and Italian governments have launched investigations.

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Replies:
- Maybe we should be looking at evryone on the security council that voted, in effect, to keep Saddam. Hmmm? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 17:25:52 04/20/03 Sun
- P.S. You'll love this ... Syria is on the security council. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 20:05:27 04/20/03 Sun
Re. the Baghdad hotel attack - For those who believe that 1) Government politicians always tell the truth 2) Their spokesmen always tell the truth 3) Journalists and independent observers are unreliable 4) the armed forces will always admit their mistakes 5) Civilian deaths are excusable in the fight against terrorism - here is a salutary story. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/northern_ireland/2000/bloody_sunday/map/default.stm Only on that occasion, it was the Irish who got killed, not Arabs. -- Chris Henry, 07:19:03 04/18/03 Fri (NoHost/82.47.215.137)

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Replies:
- I don't believe any of them. But lately journalists have been shown to be the worst liars. Next month it will be someone else. in first place. Sometimes you have to hold your beliefs in abeyance until more evidence is in as well as use some common sense. Civilian deaths are inevitable in the fight against terrorism. A fact of life or death if you prefer. Civilian deaths are the focus of terrorism, or hadn't you noticed? Now excusing those deaths is just sick. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:43:17 04/18/03 Fri
  - "journalists have been shown to be the worst liars". Well maybe this profession is about to be surpassed by Heads of State. Bush and Blair were very vociferous about the existence of Iraq's WMD's, and now the country is occupied, we'll soon see if their statements were the truth, or the biggest lie this century. If the latter, it'll certainly make Clinton's "grass and sex" lies seem puny in comparison. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 09:09:22 04/19/03 Sat
Daschle is no mensch either . . . -- SurveyGuy, 15:53:34 04/17/03 Thu (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/17/141032
Thursday, April 17, 2003
Church to Daschle: You're No Catholic

Pro-abortion Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle may no longer call himself a Catholic. So reports the Weekly Standard, which says Daschle, the highest-ranking Democrat in Washington, has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, S.D., directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church.

The magazine's Web site reports today, "This isn't exactly excommunication - which is unnecessary, in any case, since Daschle made himself ineligible for communion almost 20 years ago with his divorce and remarriage to a Washington lobbyist," the high-powered and controversial Linda Daschle.

The directive from Sioux Falls Bishop Robert Carlson is a declaration that Daschle's religious identification constitutes "a grave public scandal," the Standard says.

In 1997, Bishop Carlson publicly said Daschle's phony, hole-filled "compromise" on partial-birth abortion, allowing the mother to make any claim of mental or physical health as a reason for such a gruesome late-term abortion, was a "smokescreen" designed solely to "provide cover for pro-abortion senators and President Clinton, who wanted to avoid a veto confrontation."

Daschle fought back on the floor of the Senate by denouncing his own bishop for speaking in a way "more identified with the radical right than with thoughtful religious leadership," the Standard reports.

Bishop Carlson later told the Sioux Falls Argus Leader that he remained mystified by Daschle's position on abortion. "NARAL claims him as one of their number-one supporters. I don't understand how he can be in touch with South Dakotans as much as he is, and yet consistently have a pro-abortion record."

South Dakota's Catholic bishop is not the first is America to finally tell allegedly Catholic politicians to stop their hypocrisy. Sacramento Bishop William Weigand has told California Gov. Gray Davis to renounce his support of abortion or stop taking Holy Communion.

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- What I find ironic about TD is the character he's revealing in all these public political squabbles since GWB entered the White House. His allies were saying he's always been such a quiet and mild-mannered sort, so his flying off the handle now is deemed credible evidence of how wrong the right is. How about this: he's finally revealing his true colors, now that he's not getting his way all the time like Bubba let him? I have yet to hear a liberal not sound like a spoiled brat having a temper tantrum. Can anyone show me otherwise? (NT) -- Spock, 11:34:06 04/18/03 Fri
Dennis Miller Kills !! -- Chez, 11:00:02 04/18/03 Fri (03-039.002.popsite.net/64.24.17.39)
Did anyone get a chance to see Dennis Miller on his HBO special? He was hilarious. I could not find a transcript of the HBO special but here is a partial transcript of some of his jokes.. (HBO did not renew Miller's contract.)
ENJOY !!

On the length of the war

�And now we've got people whining about how long the war is taking. For God's sakes it's been two weeks. You know, it took Joe Millionaire eight weeks to pick Zora (sp?).�

On Abortion:
I saw Ed Harris one night speaking at a pro-choice � pro-choice rally. Ed Harris the actor said we shouldn't go to war. I was thinking if you can't get your head around the war, why don't you just think of it as choosing to abort Saddam Hussein. Wouldn't that be a rationale

On the Russians:
if they could take out that many friedlies liberating an opera house, do you really want them flying off your wing in a real war?

On the Belgium

The Belgians, you knew they'd waffle?

On the Germans:
"You going to rely on the Germans? For god's sake, with the Germans you never know if they're not signing on because they don't believe in it or it's just not on a grand enough scale"

On the French:
The French, you might as well gas up the dinghy and go fishing with Fredo because you are dead to me, okay. You know something? These pricks are now putting � they're putting swastikas on our flag in France

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bldennismiller_rant.htm

http://forums.about.com/ab-politicalhmr/messages/?lgnf=y&msg=866.1

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Replies:
- Thanks, Chez! We don't have HBO, but I've always been a DM fan. My favorite here was the abortion joke! The logic holds true, but of course you'd never get a liberal to admit that. Their logic seems to be: "what I want is what everyone should want, and what I don't want couldn't possibly be what anyone wants, and I'm free to change my mind anytime I want, and you'd all better keep up and agree." Nice and subjective and relative -- and childish. (NT) -- Spock, 11:28:09 04/18/03 Fri
Will we ever know the truth? U.S. lies too, but with great complexity. Will we ever know the truth about Flt 800 either? -- SurveyGuy, 10:20:17 04/12/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31868
ARMED AND DANGEROUS
Expert: Government science failed at Waco
Says conclusion agents did not fire weapons possibly pre-determined

Posted: April 12, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Jon Dougherty � 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

An independent forward-looking infrared, or FLIR, analyst says the government used inappropriate scientific methods to "prove" federal agents did not fire at Branch Davidians as they tried to escape their burning complex in Waco, Texas, a decade ago � perhaps, she says, to reach a predetermined conclusion that exonerates federal agents.

[Snipped . . . click headline for full story]

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- If they lied about this, why expect them to tell the truth about firing at the journalists' hotel in Baghdad? (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:49:25 04/13/03 Sun
  - Maybe. This is not Janet Reno and ATF flunkees under the Clinton administration. No advantage to lying about hotel. I have no idea what happened. You seem to have already decided. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 11:16:49 04/13/03 Sun
    - i am happy to go with the eye-witness accounts of dozens of journalists. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 03:04:36 04/15/03 Tue
      - If that's all it takes to make you happy, I am glad you do not investigate things. Remember the 100s of journalists that reported that no brutality was taking place in Iraq. I prefer to wait for the other side as well, then weigh the evidence as presented. Then decide on my degree of disbelief. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Still believe Flt 800 was a terrorist attack), 11:36:18 04/15/03 Tue
        
        please give me the URL of just one journalist (not a 100, one will do) reporting that no brutality was taking place. If you do, I'll be happy to investigate further. But if you don't believe the collective observations of dozens of journalists, whom do you believe? If it's politicians and spokesme, I feel sorry for you, you'll spend your life in a dream world. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 06:45:55 04/18/03 Fri
      - Of course Saddam Hussein's regime would NEVER think of planting snipers where return fire might put civilians in the line of fire, right? That would be just too monstrous, for such a nice guy, right? (NT) -- Spock, 13:18:13 04/15/03 Tue
Regarding thread Irish-Iraqi humour -- Born and Raised in Ireland, 16:50:12 04/13/03 Sun (dyn-212-83-185-152.ppp.tiscali.fr/212.83.185.152)
From an Irish Passport Holder:

You American morons actually think that Irish people are not insulted by this?

Fucking Americans. I think that speaks for every actual Irish person.

Note, American passport holders are NOT Irish. Ireland is a nation and you cannot "decide" to be Irish anymore than I can "decide" to declare myself to be American.

If you don't like it I suggest you stick a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. That's something most Irish people wish American tourists would do.

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Replies:
- What are you talking about? Your post makes no sense to me. If you come back here again to this site would you explain yourself and your post? (NT) -- William, 01:03:01 04/14/03 Mon
  - The poster doesn't speak for the Irish I've met. A group of us even marched round St. Stephens Green in Dublin for the parade and were greeted warmly. Irish will wave at tourist buses because they know they how many of their kin are in America and some may even be on the bus. The attitide of the poster is definitely French. The Irish are a lovely people. In fact we saw the delightful group "Spirit of Ireland" just last night. If you ever heard hal Roach, he uses "Paddy" and "Murphey" in his humorous stories all of the time. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I guess French are anti-American, anti-semitic and apparently don't like the Irish either), 16:15:51 04/14/03 Mon
- I think the post explains why the French liberals are considered so rude. Don't worry, I have no intention of visiting France. I would gladly return to Ireland. (They don't like the French much either, by the way.) Of course that characterization is not applicable to those in the countryside. In summary, the French apparently have no sense of humor. The Irish, on the other hand can laugh at themselves. Those of Irish decent in the U.S. can (and often do) hold dual citizenship. I've definitiely stopped buying or drinking French wines now. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Many Irish feel they've been cheated by the new Euro setup)., 16:03:34 04/14/03 Mon
- If you do return, here's questions you'd know the answer to if you were born and raised in Ireland: (1) What dry goods store is located in the Gap of Dunloe in Killarney? (2) What facility is located right next to the Irish National Stud Farms? (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I'd ask about Glendalough and which saint is associated with it, but everyone knows that), 19:14:05 04/14/03 Mon
- Temper, temper, me friend (sic....or is that 'sick'?)! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Lay off the whiskey already.....either that or you haven't had enough yet. Where's your sense of humor? I for one speak as an American of partial Irish heritage. Incidentally, my sister-in-law, who's fully Irish-American, actually enjoyed the humor to which you so violently react against. (BTW: are you in France now because you got kicked out of Ireland, or decided they were too nice to keep company with?) (NT) -- Spock, 13:03:03 04/15/03 Tue
  - I wonder how he'd react to this joke about diabilities: Why don't blind men bunji jump? Click for answer . . . -- SurveyGuy, 19:07:59 04/15/03 Tue
    - I think it's all an insecurity complex, and in this case, an accompanying superiority complex....nasty combination. No sense of humor, plus he doesn't get the joke, so he automatically takes it personally and as an insult, and then has to bluster and talk tough to compensate. What an exhausting lifestyle. (NT) -- Spock, 12:14:45 04/16/03 Wed
Save these for discussion at gatherings about ending the income tax (in favor of a sales tax) -- SurveyGuy, 20:05:53 04/14/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
'Most outrageous' ways feds spend money
Libertarian Party releases Washington's Top 10 expenditures

Posted: April 14, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern
� 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Awarding $170 million to a pornographer who wants to hand out condoms around the world is just one of the U.S. government's "top 10 spending outrages" this year, according to the Libertarian Party.

The list � whose release was purposely timed to coincide with April 15, the deadline for filing federal income tax � details "all the crazy ways the government will spend your money," said the party in a statement.

"Rampant government waste, fraud and abuse only adds insult to the injury inflicted by the income tax," said Geoffrey Neale, national chair of the Libertarian Party. "On tax day, it's time to remind ourselves how right humorist P.J. O'Rourke was when he said giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teen-age boys."

Here are the party's most egregious federal spending items, according to its statement:

1. "Giving $170 million to a pornographer who wants to hand out condoms around the world. The U.S. Agency for International Development awarded the grant to Population Services International, or PSI, a nonprofit corporation whose mission is to curb sexually transmitted diseases. PSI was founded in 1971 by Philip Harvey, who runs a massive mail-order pornography firm called Adam and Eve.

2. "Funding a $1.8 million study of algae in hot water. The funding, contained in an omnibus appropriations bill, was given to the Bozeman, Mont., Center on Life in Extreme Thermal Environments, according to Citizens Against Government Waste.

3. "Authorizing a $1 million program at Auburn University to train dogs to spot terrorist activity. The money was earmarked by Sen.Richard Shelby, R-Ala., in a bill funding the Veterans Administration and Housing Department.

4. "Spending $3.6 million for 'team-building' exercises for the Postal Service. At a series of employee retreats, hundreds of Postal workers played children's games, sang 'We Are Family,' wrote Christmas carols, went on treasure hunts, dressed in cat costumes, took scat singing lessons, and talked to imaginary wizards, magicians and mad scientists at staff meetings.

5. "Mailing Social Security checks to fugitives. Though a 1996 law prohibits the payments, 36,752 fugitives have been collecting benefits anyway, costing taxpayers $223.7 million, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

6. "Paying $560 million to trim weeds at the Montana Sheep Institute � money contained in a $397.4 billion appropriations bill passed by Congress earlier this year.

7. "Authorizing pay raises for Congress and other federal workers. Senators and representatives raised their salaries by $5,000 this year, to $154,700. President Bush also handed a 4.1 percent pay increase in February to federal workers, even though many of the private-sector employees footing the bill are taking pay cuts and even losing their jobs in a difficult economy.

8. "Hiring 2 million government workers � in Iraq. As part of the postwar plan to 'promote stability,' the Pentagon wants to pay the salaries of 2 million soldiers, teachers, police officers and other government workers in Iraq � in effect putting one out of every 10 Iraqis on the U.S. government payroll.

9. "Selling expensive government property for pennies. According to government auditors, the Energy Department sold a $9,000 copier to NTS Development Corp. for 5 cents, and sold the firm 23 trucks worth $448,000 for 17 cents each.

10. "Guaranteeing even more waste, fraud and abuse next year by increasing the federal budget to a record $2.3 trillion."

Commented Neale: "Considering all the ways the government is already squandering your money, giving politicians a bigger budget is like giving those teen-age boys another shot of whiskey and a faster car. The only way to protect the nation from these reckless spendaholics is to cut the politicians off for good by ending the income tax."

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Replies:
- So where's all the liberal outrage over things like this? Why just pick on military spending? (NT) -- Spock, 12:07:51 04/16/03 Wed
This is the story they've been talking about all day . . . only now the truth can be told? Eason Jordan should have been sitting beside Colin Powell at the UN and telling these stories at that time. -- SurveyGuy (are we disgusted enough yet??), 15:09:34 04/11/03 Fri (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
The News We Kept to Ourselves
By EASON JORDAN

. . .

For example, in the mid-1990's one of our Iraqi cameramen was abducted. For weeks he was beaten and subjected to electroshock torture in the basement of a secret police headquarters because he refused to confirm the government's ludicrous suspicion that I was the Central Intelligence Agency's Iraq station chief. CNN had been in Baghdad long enough to know that telling the world about the torture of one of its employees would almost certainly have gotten him killed and put his family and co-workers at grave risk.

. . .

[Click Headline to read full story on NYT Op-Ed. Now ask your selves why this is on the Editorial Page and not considered new?]

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- Glenn Beck was ranting about it this morning, which is how Iearned of it. He made the valid point that CNN was right in protecting the families of their captured/tortured reporters by not reporting these incidents when they happened, but they lose all credibility by aiding and abetting the enemy by all but endorsing Saddam Hussein and his regime in their broadcasting while unilaterally trashing anything pro-America or the Bush Administration. I believe it's known as being "two-faced." (NT) -- Spock, 16:16:18 04/11/03 Fri
  - What is strange is how many of these America-bashers think that they somehow retain some kind of credibility with the public. Dixies Chicks sales dropped by 40% which explains the lame spin "it was a joke." These sort morons do not understand the consequences when the public wakes up to what they've been doing and saying. Jordan should have spoken up; the fat Dixie Chick should have kept her mouth shut. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (I wonder how this story will affect far left politicians. You can identify them by the foot in theior mouths), 18:45:14 04/11/03 Fri
- NO BLOOD FOR NEWS !! (NT) -- Chez, 20:01:10 04/12/03 Sat
  - A great bumper-sticker, Chez, except few would comprehend the allusion. Still, it would make a great needlepoint to help start a conversation. I dare say, you've summed it all up nicely. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:12:30 04/14/03 Mon
    - I'll get out a needle and thread....I still love the Iraqis holding that "Human Shield" poster that they added "Go Home You Wankers" to. (NT) -- Spock, 13:20:01 04/15/03 Tue
Irish-Iraq Humor -- SurveyGuy, 08:53:12 02/27/03 Thu (maxtnt06-100.phlpa.fast.net/209.92.241.100)
This little item crossed my desktop. Let me be the first to share it before you get the usual dozen copies.

Subject: Irish-Iraq humor

Saddam Hussein was sitting in his office wondering whom to invade next when his telephone rang. "Hallo, Mr. Hussein!" a heavily accented voice said. "This is Paddy down at the Harp Pub in County Sligo Ireland. I am ringing to inform you that we are officially declaring war on you!"

"Well, Paddy," Saddam replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is your army?"

"Right now," said Paddy, after a moment's calculation, "there is myself, my cousin Sean, my next door neighbor Seamus, and the entire dart team from the pub. That makes eight!"

Saddam paused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have one million men in my army waiting to move on my command."

"Begorra!" said Paddy. "I'll have to ring you back!" Sure enough, the next day, Paddy called again. "Mr. Hussein, the war is still on! We have managed to acquire some infantry equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be, Paddy?" Saddam asked.

"Well, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and Murphy's farm tractor.

"Saddam sighed. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 16,000 tanks and 14,000 armored personnel carriers. Also, I've increased my army to 2 million since we last spoke."

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!" said Paddy, "I'll have to ring you back." Sure enough, Paddy called again the next day.

"Top o' the mornin,' Mr. Hussein! I am sorry to tell you that we have had to call off the war."

"I'm sorry to hear that," said Saddam. "Why the sudden change of heart?"

"Well," said Paddy, "we've all had a long chat over a bunch of pints, and decided there's no way we can feed two million prisoners."

God Bless the Irish!

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Replies:
- Love it!!! On the eighth day, you know, God invented whiskey to prevent the Irish from taking over the world! (NT) -- Spock, 12:51:57 02/27/03 Thu
- Ahhh, you are full of blarney! Saddam Hussein would probably fall in love with a pretty, freckle faced, red haired Irish lass and forget all about the war. Then she would unleash her hot Irish temper on him and turn him into a quivering, cowaring mass of jelly.
  Thanks for the entertaining piece! (NT) -- William, 13:02:34 02/27/03 Thu
  - ...images of "The Crying Game" suddenly come to mind... (NT) -- Spock, 16:19:14 02/27/03 Thu
- This is the story the French nuts responded to. If anything it is in the sppirit of the famous Irish Comedian, Hal Roach. I have been to Ireland and I have met Mr. Roach. This is exactly how he would tell the joke (I have seen himperform as well as listened to his recordings). By, God, it may even be one of his recent ones. (Had the French whiners replied to the thred as I did, it would have jumpted to the top as this now has. Ignorance usually exhibits itself in manifold forms. Not knowing how to reply to a post is but one of them.) (NT) -- SurveyGuy (The Irish have a better sense of humor than the French apparently), 15:30:55 04/14/03 Mon
  - Well, SG, just picture the respective countrymen in your mind....which one is smiling? conversely, which one is sneering (aside from our friend here)? 'Nuff said. (NT) -- Spock, 13:10:47 04/15/03 Tue
Regarding thread Irish-Iraqi humour -- Born and Raised in Ireland, 17:01:27 04/13/03 Sun (dyn-212-83-185-152.ppp.tiscali.fr/212.83.185.152)
And just before I go, should you ever actually go to Ireland or meet a Irish person (note the whole passport thing wantabees) note that should you call them "Paddy" or think it is funny to say phrases like "Begorra" or "Top o' the mornin", watch out, you may be talking to me and I'll smash your face in half for taunting my nationality.

You actually wonder why you are becomming unpopular internationally? Blame the internet and your own attitude.

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Replies:
- I have no idea why you posted this here and I do not understand your post. What was posted here that you are addressing? What is it that you are addressing in and of itself? (NT) -- William, 00:59:54 04/14/03 Mon
  - Wm -- note domain is France. Enough said. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:24:36 04/14/03 Mon
    - Yes, SurveyGuy. I did notice the French domain when I read the posts. That is another reason I did not understand the comment or why this person posting throught the French domain was upset about things Irish. (NT) -- William, 05:25:48 04/15/03 Tue
- You don't seem to comprehend, the joke lauds the indominable Irish spirit while showing they are unintimidated by bullies like Saddam. You are clearly French, not Irish. You'd rather be uncivilized. Sorry, but you seem to be the ignorant party here and a phony besides. You've been "outed." You can't get us to attack the Irish because you act like a buffoon and claim to be Irish yet post from an IP in France. Everyone go to www.tiscali.fr and see what I mean. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (not expecting phony French communist provacateur to return), 18:54:14 04/14/03 Mon
- So.....What if his name actually is Paddy? (It is a legitimate name, you know.) Should I call him Patrique instead? (NT) -- Spock, 13:09:13 04/15/03 Tue
Confessions of a CNN chief newsman or "How the truth was withheld and the news distorted." (AKA - "Uncle Saddam was a madman!") -- William, 00:56:00 04/14/03 Mon (cache-mtc-ah04.proxy.aol.com/64.12.96.169)

Secrets About Saddam that We Kept to Ourselves
By Eason Jordan
New York Times | April 11, 2003

Over the last dozen years I made 13 trips to Baghdad to lobby the government to keep CNN's Baghdad bureau open and to arrange interviews with Iraqi leaders. Each time I visited, I became more distressed by what I saw and heard ? awful things that could not be reported because doing so would have jeopardized the lives of Iraqis, particularly those on our Baghdad staff.

For example, in the mid-1990's one of our Iraqi cameramen was abducted. For weeks he was beaten and subjected to electroshock torture in the basement of a secret police headquarters because he refused to confirm the government's ludicrous suspicion that I was the Central Intelligence Agency's Iraq station chief. CNN had been in Baghdad long enough to know that telling the world about the torture of one of its employees would almost certainly have gotten him killed and put his family and co-workers at grave risk.

Working for a foreign news organization provided Iraqi citizens no protection. The secret police terrorized Iraqis working for international press services who were courageous enough to try to provide accurate reporting. Some vanished, never to be heard from again. Others disappeared and then surfaced later with whispered tales of being hauled off and tortured in unimaginable ways. Obviously, other news organizations were in the same bind we were when it came to reporting on their own workers.

We also had to worry that our reporting might endanger Iraqis not on our payroll. I knew that CNN could not report that Saddam Hussein's eldest son, Uday, told me in 1995 that he intended to assassinate two of his brothers-in-law who had defected and also the man giving them asylum, King Hussein of Jordan. If we had gone with the story, I was sure he would have responded by killing the Iraqi translator who was the only other participant in the meeting. After all, secret police thugs brutalized even senior officials of the Information Ministry, just to keep them in line (one such official has long been missing all his fingernails).

Still, I felt I had a moral obligation to warn Jordan's monarch, and I did so the next day. King Hussein dismissed the threat as a madman's rant. A few months later Uday lured the brothers-in-law back to Baghdad; they were soon killed.

I came to know several Iraqi officials well enough that they confided in me that Saddam Hussein was a maniac who had to be removed. One Foreign Ministry officer told me of a colleague who, finding out his brother had been executed by the regime, was forced, as a test of loyalty, to write a letter of congratulations on the act to Saddam Hussein. An aide to Uday once told me why he had no front teeth: henchmen had ripped them out with pliers and told him never to wear dentures, so he would always remember the price to be paid for upsetting his boss. Again, we could not broadcast anything these men said to us.

Last December, when I told Information Minister Muhammad Said al-Sahhaf that we intended to send reporters to Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, he warned me they would "suffer the severest possible consequences." CNN went ahead, and in March, Kurdish officials presented us with evidence that they had thwarted an armed attack on our quarters in Erbil. This included videotaped confessions of two men identifying themselves as Iraqi intelligence agents who said their bosses in Baghdad told them the hotel actually housed C.I.A. and Israeli agents. The Kurds offered to let us interview the suspects on camera, but we refused, for fear of endangering our staff in Baghdad.

Then there were the events that were not unreported but that nonetheless still haunt me. A 31-year-old Kuwaiti woman, Asrar Qabandi, was captured by Iraqi secret police occupying her country in 1990 for "crimes," one of which included speaking with CNN on the phone. They beat her daily for two months, forcing her father to watch. In January 1991, on the eve of the American-led offensive, they smashed her skull and tore her body apart limb by limb. A plastic bag containing her body parts was left on the doorstep of her family's home.

I felt awful having these stories bottled up inside me. Now that Saddam Hussein's regime is gone, I suspect we will hear many, many more gut-wrenching tales from Iraqis about the decades of torment. At last, these stories can be told freely.

Eason Jordan is chief news executive at CNN.

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Replies:
- How can I help but feel that if Mr. Jordan had spoken up at the UN, we'd have been rid of Saddam and his thugs much earlier and saved many from their suffering. If they will hide such atrocities, what don;t they tell us about the Democrats that they may know? Or anything for that matter? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 21:31:22 04/14/03 Mon
And now . . . a little Irish Folk Music -- SurveyGuy, 19:31:25 04/14/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
Here is a classic Irish folksong. I am familiar with many more because I know some Civil War re-enactors and they have been performing around the area. All funds raised go to preserve historic Civil War sites. They have several Irish members as well as others. They have "adopted" the Pennsylvania Irish 69th and have done such things as replace or provide headstones for the graves of those Irish who fought in our Civil War.

This link is a commercial group called the Irish Rovers. You need RealPayer to hear it.

Whiskey In The Jar by The Irish Rovers

(P.S. You won't see any French music posted here.)

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Replies:
- I have also seen The Young Dubliners perform. A bit loud for my tastes but very talented. The French are just jealous of our love for Irish art,culture and humor. The Young Dubs seemed to be having a great time with their American fans and vice versa. Sorry, I have no capotures of their music, but it would probably blow your speakers. Maybe something by the Coors . . . another time. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:46:08 04/14/03 Mon
Stupid Security measures. Don't you feel safer? -- SurveyGuy, 16:42:36 04/12/03 Sat (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
Privacy internation's "Stupid Security Internation Competition" has provided many eye=rolling examples. Check this link to read the details.

http://www.privacyinternational.org/activities/stupidsecurity/

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Replies:
- DId you find a favorite story amongst the many? (NT) -- SG, 16:49:34 04/12/03 Sat
  - I found quite a few to be entertaining and frustrating. I am still reading them. I love the one about people showing a driver's license as a pass. Great security measure! (NT) -- William, 13:58:38 04/14/03 Mon
From the Why-Would-Anyone-Be-Surprised Department -- SurveyGuy, 18:22:01 04/07/03 Mon (NoHost/68.81.153.209)
MEDIA MATTERS
Arab media slammed over war coverage
Editor of Saudi daily says reporters lying to try to bolster morale

The editor in chief of a London-based Saudi newspaper has criticized Arab media coverage of the war in Iraq, saying Arab media is simply acting as a mouthpiece for Saddam and censoring everything that doesn't fit established opinion.

Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed of the daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat presented his views in three recent editorials translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

Snipped . . . Click on headline to read entire article

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Replies:
- What? Arab news slanted and bias? Tell me it isn't so! (NT) -- William, 02:49:41 04/08/03 Tue
  - What is striking is an Arab editor of an Arab paper stating it. Now THAT is a big(and pleasant) surprise. Mr. Al-Rashed seems to be a man of integrity. (NT) -- SurveyGuy (Our opinions matter mostly to ourselves. ), 09:30:10 04/08/03 Tue
- Why should this come as any surprise, when (what's left of) their government keeps insisting that the Americans are not in Baghdad, never have been, are committing suicide by the thousands, and are being wiped out by the (now nonexistent) Republican guard, and that Saddam Hussein is still alive and milling about with commoners on the streets.... An interesting set of contradictions to say the least. As go the leaders, so go the nation that follows... (NT) -- Spock, 10:50:22 04/08/03 Tue
- Furthermore, how do you like liberal American journalists who were first complaining about how LOOOONNNGGG this war was taking (5 days in) and now that we're mopping up in Baghdad, they're complaining about how it wasn't a fair fight, and we're just being bullies because we took all our big guns into this little disadvantaged (terrorist) country. Methinks I smell a bunch of rats...which is more than I could say for them, since they keep cutting off their noses to spite their (two) faces.... (NT) -- Spock, 10:54:14 04/08/03 Tue
- What he says is true, but the same is true (in reverse) of much of the Western press. You won't find the latter publishing the pages of horrific civilian death pictures that we're seeing over here. All papers are businesses, they'll publish what their readership wants to see and avoid whatever will shock or offend their public. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:00:01 04/09/03 Wed
- However, does this explain why our forces have twice bombed the Al Jazeera offices? Kabul, November 2001, and Baghdad, April 2003. Or the attack on the journalists' hotel in Baghdad yesterday? It's a bit naive to say "we were returning fire" when there are dozens of professional journalists from all countries and persuasions saying the opposite. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 07:09:37 04/09/03 Wed
Red Light Cameras -- John D. Citizens for Common Sense, 13:03:44 04/12/03 Sat (pcp01340067pcs.wilog201.pa.comcast.net/68.80.249.113)
A hearing on Red Light Cameras will be held in Philadelphia on May 6th, 2003 10AM at City Hall.
Although I am usually not in agreement with the ACLU, they will be present to object to the installation of Cameras on the streets of Phila. They will argue that the cameras violate the 5th, 6th and 14th amendments of the Constitution. I agree. Anyone wanting to attend or voice an opinion to these cameras should contact Frank Rizzo at 215-686-3440. Frank will hold the hearing.
More information on Red Light Cameras can be had at www.motorists.org and www.freedom.gov/auto.
Fight before your rights are taken away.

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Replies:
- Frannie is convinced that the cameras will do "oh so much good." Somebody ask him if he will include in the bill that the timing of the lights will not be tampered with to create dangerous situations just to raise revenue and have penalties if anyone does. Betcha he says that won't be necessary. Ask the people in Washington D.C. Constitutional issues aside, poorly managed government can kill people if they abuse this. He's a nice guy, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 15:05:31 04/12/03 Sat
But then Quebecers don't like Aprisans either . . . -- SurveyGuy (who won't be returning to Quebec anytime soon), 20:20:00 04/03/03 Thu (NoHost/68.81.153.209)
It makes one wonder about the adults. Well Quebec wants to be French, so perhaps add them to the list to avoid. Why go where you're not wanted? This article raises all kinds of questions. Is that any way to treat guests who are just kids? Should we not buy any tickets to games played by Canadian hockey teams? Does speaking French make one rude?

Thursday, April 3, 2003
Font face=Arial color=navy size=+2>Canadians Tell U.S. Kids, 'America Sucks'

A busload of American "PeeWee" hockey players got a taste of the rabid anti-Americanism that is festering in Canada: They were hooted at, our National Anthem was booed, and people in the street gave them the finger or displayed other rude gestures.

The Massachusetts kids were in Montreal for a PeeWee tournament when residents of this French-speaking city treated them the way one would expect an enemy to be treated: with scorn and hostility.

According to the Toronto Globe & Mail, the 11- and 12-year-old boys from Brockton had been looking forward to the hockey tournament in Montreal. But parents who accompanied them said they were unprepared for the depth of anti-American hatred over the U.S.-led war against Iraq.

During their four-day visit, the young Americans were horrified to see the Stars and Stripes burned and hear the National Anthem booed. When traveling in their bus emblazoned with a red, white and blue "Coach USA" logo, they saw people on the street make angry gestures at them.

Even worse, while playing hockey their Canadian opponents told their American guests that "the U.S. sucks" and shouted other anti-American insults, the boys recalled.

"It was a shock to go to a tournament and have kids saying this to us. These are our friends that are doing this," Brockton Boxers coach Ernest Nadeau told the Globe & Mail. "We didn't expect Canadian players - especially young boys - would take things to that extreme."

Why Spend Your Money in Quebec?

One parent, Bill Carpenter, was so upset he canceled his family's vacation to Quebec this summer. "We were very offended by the whole thing," Carpenter, who accompanied two sons on the trip, told the newspaper.

"I understand the opposition to the war. But we were made to feel unwelcome just about anywhere we went. Montreal is a five-and-a-half-hour drive for us. It's not like we were traveling to Syria or France or Germany," he said. "As Americans, we felt in the past that Canada was our closest ally and friend. No one told us we were heading into unfriendly territory."

According to the Globe & Mail, the trip took a turn for the worse almost as soon as the children reached Montreal, when their bus entered the city's downtown just as hundreds of college and university students were marching through the streets in an appeasement demonstration.

Police cruisers spotted the U.S. bus and escorted it to its hotel on Sherbrooke Street as a safety precaution. A police officer even urged the visitors to remain in the bus until the protest passed.

The children watched in shock as demonstrators made obscene gestures toward the bus. An American flag was dragged through the street.

"We felt horrible," Nadeau told the paper. "How would you feel if the Canadian flag was dragged down the streets in the U.S.A.? This is a country that's supposed to be our ally."

That night at a game between the Montreal Canadiens and New York Islanders game, the U.S. national anthem was widely booed by the crowd, further upsetting the boys.

"The kids were just questioning, 'Why are they doing this?'" said David Cruise, who was there with his 12-year-old son. "It's hard for them to realize we weren't in America any more; we were in a different country. I said, 'They're booing our national anthem because they don't like us.'

"Whether you're for or against the war, we have guys over there dying," Cruise said. "The next time, we'll stay in the States. I'm not going back there again."

The boys recalled that during a game against the Beverly Bandits, a team from Beverly, Ontario, anti-American comments continued when the Canadians hurled insults during face-offs and at other times.

"They told us we sucked, gave us the finger and said 'Down with the U.S.A.' or 'The U.S.A. sucks," Nadeau said. At one point, a Canadian player made a disparaging remark about the United States "and the referee turned around and said, 'I agree with you.' "What stunned us was that the referee, who is supposed to be unbiased, is agreeing with the boys on the ice."

His players "wanted to retaliate" against the Canadians, but Nadeau said he urged them "not to do anything foolish."

Fanatics Cheer Iraqi Flag, Burn U.S. Flag

During a walk downtown with his two children Saturday, Carpenter watched another anti-war demonstration when he saw the crowd cheering a man atop a traffic light waving an Iraqi flag and a U.S. flag. The crowd cheered the Iraqi flag and booed the U.S. flag. The man then soaked the U.S. flag in kerosene.

"It went up in a puff of smoke and flames, and the crowd went wild. They were all cheering," said Carpenter, whose 24-year-old son, a U.S. Marine, was sent to retrieve bodies of Americans killed in the 2001 terrorist bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen.

On the way home, as the bus crossed the border into the United States, cheers went up in the bus. "We were very, very happy to get back home," Nadeau said.

Note that not all Canadians are hate-filled lunatics. A pro-U.S. rally is planned for Friday in Toronto. Numerous Canadians have e-mailed NewsMax that Quebec is the hotbed of anti-American fanaticism and that they are ashamed of these French degenerates.

It's clear that the cowardly French are hopelessly corrupt whether they stay in little France or spread their germs to other countries.

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Replies:
- It reminds me of two previous Fascist states and the behavior of its people from recent history. I think that place is called Germany and its neighbor is called France. (NT) -- William, 10:48:25 04/04/03 Fri
  - This is not the "state." It is ordinary people acting this way. I know we rely on Canada for news anchors and comedians, but this seems to border on mob mentality. Then it was little league hockey after all, so why should I expect and better? (NT) -- SurveyGuy, 19:34:07 04/04/03 Fri
- When I first heard of this game I felt the Frogs West were getting a bad break. As much as I despise them for so many other reasons, it was a team from Ontario that had the 'french' ice that night. Canuck damage control was out in fine form. But, once I heard of the other goings-on, I just had to say 'JL, you knucklehead, you shoulda KNOWN better'. (NT) -- JL, 18:56:38 04/06/03 Sun
- I enjoyed Montreal, which I visited once, and Toronto, which I visited twice. It is a shame, on their part, not on mine, that there are people who behave like this and disgrace themselves and their town and country. (NT) -- William, 02:51:25 04/08/03 Tue
- I don't want to be one to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but I also don't want to convey support where I clearly do not. Let's all remember the words of Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does," and respond accordingly. (NT) -- Spock, 12:57:24 04/10/03 Thu
One bit of fallout of this war is that weapons inspectors will never be trusted again .... or will they? -- SurveyGuy, 22:39:03 04/09/03 Wed (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31966
OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
Marines find underground nuke complex
Captain guarding facility: 'How did the world miss all of this?'

U.S. Marines have located an underground nuclear complex near Baghdad that apparently went unnoticed by U.N. weapons inspectors.

Hidden beneath the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission's Al-Tuwaitha facility, 18 miles south of the capital, is a vast array of warehouses and bombproof offices that could contain the "smoking gun" sought by intelligence agencies, reported the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

[Snipped .... click headline to read whole story]

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Replies:
- Here's my answer to the Captain: People look for and see what they want to see, and they find what they want to find. And we live in an age when people won't even believe their own eyes and ears if they're not seeing and hearing what they want to see and hear. In other words: "My mind's made up -- don't confuse me with the facts." And that can go both ways, unfortunately. (NT) -- Spock, 11:17:42 04/10/03 Thu
Submitted for your consideration.... -- H_Bregeron, 10:03:19 03/31/03 Mon (pcp02148573pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net/68.81.252.202)
From The Sun Newspaper online link

BBC's own man blasts
his bosses over 'bias'

By TREVOR KAVANAGH
Political Editor

THE BBC was last night sensationally condemned for “one-sided” war coverage —
by its own front line defence correspondent.

Paul Adams attacks the Beeb for misreporting the Allied advance
in a blistering memo leaked to The Sun.

And he warned the BBC’s credibility is at risk for suggesting British troops
are paying a “high price for small victories”.

On Monday, he wrote from US Central Command in Qatar:
“I was gobsmacked to hear, in a set of headlines today,
that the coalition was suffering ‘significant casualties’.

“This is simply NOT TRUE. Nor is it true to say — as the same intro stated —
that coalition forces are fighting ‘guerrillas’.

“It may be guerrilla warfare, but they are not guerrillas.”

Adams’ memo was fired off to TV news head Roger Mosey,
Radio news boss Stephen Mitchell and other Beeb chiefs.

It adds stunning weight to allegations that BBC coverage
on all its networks is biased against the war.

In one blast, he storms:
“Who dreamed up the line that the coalition are achieving ‘small victories at a very high price?’

“The truth is exactly the opposite.

“The gains are huge and the costs still relatively low.
This is real warfare, however one-sided, and losses are to be expected.”

The BBC has come under attack for describing the loss of two soldiers as
the “worst possible news for the armed forces”.

One listener asked:
“How would the BBC have reported the Battle of the Somme
in World War I when 25,000 men died on the first day?”

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Replies:
- The first casualty of war is the truth is evident. There are omissions, distortions, spins, claims, etc. I have not believed any of it. The trick is to pick on one source as a focus, then read what others have to say. I listen to what the press briefings contain and then see how various people report what I have already heard. In some cases, the opposite of what was said is reported. One quickly learns who has no integrity. How about that Peter Arnett, eh? (NT) -- SG, 10:13:48 03/31/03 Mon
  - You're right, one needs to check multiple sources. As soon as I saw this was the UK "Sun" I disbelieved it, but it was corroborate by the UK Guardian, its political opposite. The Sun achieved fame for being the first and only UK paper to feature a daily topless model on page 3. If you pay a visit to http://www.thesun.co.uk/ you will see that its readership enjoys pictures more than words, and doesn't worry about political correctness. (NT) -- Chris Henry, 02:33:22 04/01/03 Tue
- I am increasingly offended at the drivel that passes for "informed opinion" coming out of the mouths of liberals -- the Northwestern U prof who says the abuse inflicted on Vietnam vets when they returned was "urban myth," Chrissie Hines (sp?) saying she "hopes Iraq wins," and now the illustrious Columbia U. prof who said he wishes "a thousand Mogadishus" on the U.S. military. Words cannot express my contempt for these samples of our society and their ilk. What hateful words so frequently come from the mouths of "tolerant" people. (cont'd) (NT) -- Spock, 16:09:07 03/31/03 Mon
  - That professor is now in hiding. Nothing like standing up for what you pretend to believe, eh? (NT) -- SG, 09:44:15 04/04/03 Fri
- And what utter ignorance from those who claim to be "informed" and who tout themselves as America's elite. Quite obviously they have no idea what they are saying, nor the implications or ramifications of having their wishes fulfilled. May I never be so tolerant nor informed. With friends like this, who needs enemies? (NT) -- Spock, 16:11:25 03/31/03 Mon
Info on SARS -- something to really be concerned about. Check the Medline page link below for lots of information -- SurveyGuy, 09:41:18 04/04/03 Fri (NoHost/68.81.153.209)
This a excerted from the Politech maillist.

Here's some information on SARS, which we'll cover from time to time on Politech. Basically SARS appears to be as infectious as the common cold -- it spreads by airborne droplets or those left on surfaces -- except it can kill you.

Here's the tech perspective:
"Disease infects business world"
http://news.com.com/2009-1022-995238.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

Note the number of cases yesterday (2,223):
http://www.who.int/entity/csr/sarscountry/2003_04_02/en

Compared to a week earlier (1,323):
http://www.who.int/entity/csr/sarscountry/2003_03_26/en

And six days before that (306):
http://www.who.int/csr/sarscountry/2003_03_20/en/

That's an exponential spread.

More info:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/severeacuterespiratorysyndrome.html
http://www.aic.cuhk.edu.hk/web8/sudden_acute_respiratory_syndrom.htm

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