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Date Posted: 12:32:35 01/30/08 Wed
Author: Oleander
Subject: Ok I went way long-->
In reply to: tlk2vicki 's message, "On the first read, I assumed this was just about what happened at Ardsmuir and John was picturing the brutality of Jamie's flogging. Then I realized John was remembering what it felt like when Percy flogged him in BOTB. It adds so much more meaning to John begging forgiveness from Jamie. Not only do they both know what it's like to be raped but also to be flogged (even though John was willing)." on 06:00:01 01/30/08 Wed

I think, too it is important to remember that it wasn't just the flogging at Ardsmuir, but the fact that despite himself, John found himself slightly aroused by it (Diana spoke of this on the CompuServe forum, I am not sure where though). This guilt could only have been compounded by his affair with Percy for several reasons (the flogging scene comes to mind).

John is experiencing so many layers of guilt, love, arousal, helplessness- he is helpless in the face of his feelings for Jaime, helpless to his attraction, and yet, utterly guilty because of it. And in the end, torn by the realization as well that who he needs as a lover is a man who can understand his sense of honor, of duty and responsibility, which he didn't have in Percy. In a sense, he has known this, struggling with the fact that he can’t give Percy what Percy needs (perhaps deserves), and feeling a sort of guilt because his heart is Jaime’s (not that Jaime would care). In the end, however, John is much too true with himself to fool himself- I think he is realizing he could never settle for less than a man like Jaime, or perhaps, for any man who is not Jaime at all. Can he turn away from that when he is so helplessly in love?

And even more complicating, is the fact that at once Jaime is his perfect match, but completely beyond his reach. And not just because Jaime isn’t a homosexual. As Brotherhood and Haunted Soldier unfold, John learns so much more about Jaime (stable scene). Knowing this, I wonder if John doesn’t simply feel guilt for loving a man who would only be tormented by the knowledge of that love. It is not as if Jaime would just feel the normal abhorrence associated with sodomy for the times. John’s feelings for him must be acutely painful would be acutely painful to him. A constant reminder of being tortured, dehumanized, and violated. But as well, a reminder of Ardsmuir, and all of its negative associations.

At this point in the story, so little is resolved between the two, and much of what happened at Ardsmuir seems to linger between them. I felt that the flogging scene held so many layers of importance. Themes of power and helplessness- the power struggle between the prisoner and the jailer. The final severance of their relationship at Ardsmuir represented more than Jamie rejecting John, but also his identity as a gentleman- permanently giving up his friendship with a man he would be able to consider an equal, whose friendship offered him a semblance of his humanity and existence prior to Culloden. And John must realize this, and the complex irony- John may never find fulfillment and joy in a partnership or in a lover like he could with Jaime, someone who is on equal ground and with whom he shares so many ideas about honor and duty. Jaime (at this point) must turn away from this side of himself- his identity as a leader, an educated man. And for his survival, must just be. I see Jaime’s time at Helwater and Ardsmuir as times of invisibility almost. Where he wasn’t so much real, as just there. Surviving. In part, because of John. The simple act of being loved by John, without expectation, or even a hint of anything inappropriate, would still be tortuous to Jaime.

Because John loves him, I don't think he'd ever want to hurt Jaime- and just loving him is enough to do that. Ok, that went way long, and I am not sure if it made ANY sense. Good luck reading that :D

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