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Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- Kathy, 20:50:37 05/31/10 Mon [13]

Our speckled sussex cockerel's right hock appears to slipping to the side. He can walk on it but limps badly. He is a big boy, 8 months old and probably 6-7 pounds. I cannot find any evidence of fracture, it was not hot or swollen when I last checked. Slipped tendon? He is a really nice bird and currently in a pen with two pullets, but apparently unable to breed as the eggs have been infertile. Any ideas how I can treat this? Thank you.


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Replies:

[> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:09:07 06/01/10 Tue [1]

Perhaps the joint was injured by the stress of breeding. If
this is the problem rest in a body sling might help...
and perhaps you could get a vet to prescribe some
prednisone for him for the inflamation.
-----
A body sling for a bird his size can be made from an old
tee shirt cutting two leg holes and one hole for manure to
fall through. This can be attached to a carboard box or
even the frame of an old chair with the seat missing.
It must be in a protected location. Here in Georgia I have
to think about fire ants attacking.


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[> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- Kathy (michael Pearl), 10:14:45 06/01/10 Tue [1]

Thanks, I will try that. I have prednisone on hand, can you give me an idea of the proper dosage? Thanks!


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[> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 12:02:55 06/01/10 Tue [1]

If you have the standard 5 mg tablet try one a day for
about five days. Perhaps you can hide the tablet in a piece
of white bread so that he will eat it without having to
have it forced on him. I often medicate my peafowls this
way which avoids trauma for them and me.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- Kathy, 20:58:01 06/01/10 Tue [1]

Thank you so much for your help. I gave him 5mg prednisone tonight in some bread as you suggested, worked like a charm. We took an extra dog crate and zip tied a T shirt sling in it. Put the crate on a garden wagon, so we can pull him outside in the morning, put him in the barn at night. Hock is a little swollen after I got a better chance to examine it, and it is very wobbly. He is a very sweet, laid back rooster, so we are hoping he will put up with all this and maybe get better. Suppose there is any way to splint that hock, or would that not be advised?


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:59:10 06/01/10 Tue [1]

You are welcome.
Right now the joint is being rested in the hope of getting
rid of the inflamation. A brace might make him struggle and
irritate the joint surfaces even more.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- Kathy (michael Pearl), 20:22:33 06/02/10 Wed [1]

Okay, thanks. I have him slinged where he can put a little weight on it, figuring if he couldn't touch down he would struggle. He has been great so far, eating and drinking and crowing his head off.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:41:37 06/02/10 Wed [1]

You are welcome.
Good work!!!...You were right to let the foot touch to keep
him comfortable and prevent struggling.
Please post updates. Others who read this may find the
information useful


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> moving this topic to top -- D. C. Townsend, 10:46:04 06/03/10 Thu [1]

we seem to have some pests wanting to advertise a payroll
service. And they are just as welcome as chicken lice


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: moving this topic to top -- D. C. Townsend, 10:57:22 06/08/10 Tue [1]

here we go again


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: moving this topic to top -- D. C. Townsend, 09:34:53 06/10/10 Thu [1]

your bird is V. I. P
very important poultry


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: moving this topic to top -- D. C. Townsend, 08:35:20 07/04/10 Sun [1]

your poultry orthopedist is here for you


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- Kathy, 09:59:01 06/10/10 Thu [1]

The swelling is gone in the hock, but the cockerel is still really gimpy. I put him in a 3' x 2' cage and he has been resting, quietly for the most part. I gave him a piece of 2x4 to roost on the bottom. The sling was very confining, so thought the cage might be more comfortable. I'm not too optimistic about his chances.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Sussex cockerel with leg problem -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:34:39 06/10/10 Thu [1]

I am glad to hear that there is some improvement. I would
really like to see a picture of how his legs look from the
rear when he is standing. Can you put some at villagephotos
or photobucket and post the link here?


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Payroll Calculator -- Olpweb, 02:58:36 07/04/10 Sun [1]

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Newly hatched guinea keet can't stand -- Ruth, 13:28:44 06/20/10 Sun [1]

This has been a bad month for the poultry.

Our guineas hens laid their eggs in the field and the hen that sat on them was killed. Another hen decided to brood and we took her back to the barn with some eggs. She wouldn't stay on the nest, despite using brush around the nest. We put 24 eggs under two Couchins, in the same nesting box. After 28 days, 21 eggs hatched. Another egg hatched 10 hrs.later. It had a difficult time getting out of its shell. The remaining two eggs were not fertile.

It is now 36 hours since the last keet hatched and it still cannot control its head and neck. It doesn't seem to be coordinated. It lays on its side, kicking, trying to right its self. If you set the keet in a sitting position, it will fall over. The 9 keets that survived an attack by cat and kittens that got into the brooding room, will run over it. The Couchin will occasionally cover it with her wing, by its self or with the group. If you bring it to water and feed, it will partake.

Will we loose the chick or is there something we can do to help it?

Thank you once again...
Ruth


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Replies:

[> Re: Newly hatched guinea keet can't stand -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:33:11 06/20/10 Sun [1]

Sometimes I have a peachick that behaves like that. Some
will recover if just left in the incubator to rest for a
day or two. But some years back I had one that just laid
there on side trembling. I put it in a "chick chair" with
chick starter mixed with Vionate (vitamin mineral
suppliment) and offered water occasionally. This peachick
fought its way out of chair and began walking with no more
treatment needed.


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Update on the pullet -- Ruth, 12:37:38 06/20/10 Sun [1]

The pullet that broke the tibia won't stay in the sling, even with a cloth around the wings, but is otherwise doing well.

I've made two slings, one from a T shirt and one from a towel. The towel doesn't give so much. I haven't given up though. I'll keep putting her back. When she is out of the sling, I find her perching on the frame or sitting on the floor. When she gets to the floor, she tries to do one legged push ups. If she doesn't heal properly, can she survive on one leg with the other chickens?

Thank you for the links and advise.
Ruth


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Replies:

[> Re: Update on the pullet -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:24:24 06/20/10 Sun [1]

Ruth, you are welcome
It does seem that this pullet has spirit and a will to live
. But she needs to rest if possible to see if the bone will
knit. Perhaps a better sling could be made from the sleeve
of a large sweat shirt--with chicken body inside and just
head and legs outside.
As for livng with useless leg among other chickens--perhaps
with just a few. I keep disadvantaged poultry penned in
special pens. A blind hen lives with one that had leg that
healed poorly after being bitten by possum. The possum did
not survive its encounter with chicken owner.
I also have a peahen whose legs I failed to repair who
lives with an elderly peahen--NO male with her because
breeding would be hard on her legs.


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What is wrong with the chicken's leg? -- Ruth, 17:30:39 06/14/10 Mon [5]

One of our 4 mo. old chickens hit its leg on a large stone block as it tried to get away from the rest of the flock. It went down for a few seconds, got up and tried to walk and couldn't. With "escape" still on its mind, it got up and began hopping the short distance to the coop door, went inside and nested in the corner on the floor of the coop. When we closed the coop last night, she was still in the corner.

This morning I picked her up and examined the leg.
The toes hung limp and would not show any sign of muscle reaction. The joint between the tibia and the metatarsal is very flexible, so much so, that it almost makes a circle when it is moved. It doesn't seem to cause her any pain when it is moved. There is swelling in the leg, especially at the joint area. The leg and toes are hot. The uninjured leg is warm.

After having read you posts, I am going to give her 2 1/2 mg
of Prednisone hoping it will reduce the inflammation and try to work the joint back in place, then, make a tight wrap around the joint with (don't laugh)..a quarter of a panty liner, soft side down held in place by J&J Hurt Free Wrap tape. What I'm not sure of is, do I wrap it in a straight position or in a bent position? Beyond this, I don't know what else to do. Do you have any suggestions?


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Replies:

[> Re: What is wrong with the chicken's leg? -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:25:44 06/14/10 Mon [1]

This seems to be torn cartilage in hock joint and/or a
broken tibia. I would suggest resting the patient in a
body sling.This is made of cloth such as an old tee shirt.
Cut two leg holes and a hole for manure to fall through.
Tie corners of this to a cardboard box or a wooden frame
letting the feet of the chicken just touch the floor.
She needs to be away from the other chickens, perhaps in
your house. Where I live I have to think of keeping fire
ants away from helpless birds.
With a new injury like this I would not want to wrap it
tightly because it might need room to swell--you do NOT
want to cut off circulation to the injured part.


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[> [> Re: What is wrong with the chicken's leg? -- Ruth, 10:18:08 06/15/10 Tue [1]

Thank you for your information. I will try the sling.
Two questions cross my mind, does the leg need to be wrapped in any way and how long do I keep the chicken in the sling?


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[> [> [> Re: What is wrong with the chicken's leg? -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:26:02 06/15/10 Tue [1]

Ruth, You are welcome. I exist to serve my Creator by
helping His most helpless creatures.
A broken leg can take three weeks for the bone to "knit"
but this may be damaged cartilage so can not predict
healing time.
Am not certain exactly what is wrong so do not know if a
splint would help. Your bird is young and very tender so
that I fear binding the leg. Perhaps if you could post
photos at villagephotos.com or photobucket I would have
a better idea what to suggest.


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[> baby goose w/ leg issues -- rebecca, 18:37:09 06/15/10 Tue [1]

hi, sorry to just reply to a random mssg, but i have a baby goose (abt 6 wks old) who we name tik tok due to the way she walks. it started out that she just walked funny, but it's getting worse. her legs seem to be seperating which makes it hard for her to walk. she was in a pen outside w/ some ducks we rescued from a canal (their mom was killed by a car and they fell in the day they were born), who r abt the same age, but they are like crack-addicts who run too fast for her to stay upright. she's now in a big box and goes outside w/ someone there in case she gets hurt. is there a way to make her legs to back? would a chicken sling work? i knw that if u use a band-aid on a teeny chicken, the legs can grow "normally", but she's already 6 wks, is that too old? is there a way to wrap her hips up until they grow normally by themselves? she's been getting worse in the last few days, so plz help me asap. thanks so much and all u poultry ppl ROCK!!!


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[> [> Re: baby goose w/ leg issues -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:37:29 06/15/10 Tue [1]

Perhaps there is a lack of calcium in diet weakening the
bones. Feed stores sell crushed oystershell to supply this
important mineral for poultry. Perhaps a hobble brace would
help--read my article and find picture there
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
But remove hobble brace if the goose is swimming.
After all swimming is used as a theraputic exercise for
humans and should be very natural for goose.


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What's wrong with the chicken's leg? -- Ruth, 20:08:13 06/14/10 Mon [1]

I tried the massage/stretching of the leg for 5 minutes. She was so relaxed, didn't seem to mind a bit. After I was finished with the massage, I rolled her over and gently stretched the leg. I could feel popping, i.e. knuckle joints.
It seemed to occur in the tibia area. I massaged again and applied the bandage. As I was finishing the last wrap, I felt the bone pop and move so I unwrapped it adjusted the joint and wrapped it again. This time it felt as if all of the joints in the leg were popping. I unwrapped it again and put her in the nesting box at floor level where she won't be bothered by the older hens. I gave her some fine scratch with the Prednisone and she ate it. Hopefully it will relieve the inflammation.

Please, can you help me help my chick?


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Need help with gosling -- Jenny J., 01:50:56 06/13/10 Sun [2]

I have a four week old gosling that developed problems in both legs/feet. One foot turns severely inward, as in a very extreme version of being pigeon toed. The other foot is curled. Unfortunately, since it was our first gosling, we did not notice the issues with her feet and know to treat the curled foot on day one.

After one week, finally finding out information on chicken sites, I tried a chicken shoe to fix the curled foot but did not have any success - the tape just seemed to irritate her foot and the joint seemed more swollen.

I took her to an avian vet who is the only one in our area. She put her in a full leg/body cast from two weeks of age and suggested we keep her in that for a week and then revisit for a checkup. After one week, nothing had gotten better, and the gosling, who was miserable not being able to move for a week, had completely lost mobility.

With a lot of swimming and physical therapy, we got her back to walking again, but the problems are still there, and as she is gaining weight, it is becoming harder and harder for her to walk and keep her balance. Every once in a while she falls over on her back and struggles like a turtle, unable to right herself. This is not only very stressful for her, but it would be fatal outdoors.

The avian vet is on vacation for another week, but when she comes back, she had mentioned the possibility of surgery. Is there anything else we can try in the meantime? Is it possible for her to survive? I hate to euthanize her when she has been such a fighter. Thanks so much in advance for any help.


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Replies:

[> Re: Need help with gosling -- Jenny J., 01:52:31 06/13/10 Sun [1]

I should have added that in terms of her trying to walk, she is not using the curled foot much at all now - she pretty much hops on that side, and the foot on the other side works but is so severely pointed inward that her balance is very difficult. She has learned to use her head and beak to catch herself when she falls, but it takes a tremendous amount of energy for her to move about and I think it must be stressful for her.


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[> [> Re: Need help with gosling -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 08:36:30 06/13/10 Sun [1]

Jenny, The only thing I can suggest is to keep her as
comfortable as possible until the vet gets back. While a
bird is very young is the time to repair orthopedic
problems (I know I keep saying that) The growing bones are
more pliable and can sometimes be repaired.
I have never made a "shoe" for a web footed bird but it
would have to be cut from cardboard or from a plastic jug
to fit the foot and be taped on.
As for the quality of life for a crippled bird--some will
survive in a protected environment and others will just
give up and die. I do have a peahen named Crazy Legs now
several years old who walks around in a strange way. But
I do not have a male in her pen because breeding could
injure her.


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Replies:

[> Re: Online Payroll -- D. C. Townsend, 10:54:07 06/08/10 Tue [1]

ARE YOU STUPID
OR
JUST A CRIMNINAL TRESSPASSER???

EITHER WAY YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE!!!!!


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Online Payroll -- Olp Webmaster, 04:07:57 06/03/10 Thu [1]

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Replies:

[> Re: Online Payroll -- D C T--NOT friendly to this, 10:38:44 06/03/10 Thu [1]

THIS IS A POULTRY FORUM
NOT A PAYROLL FORUM
-----
SO TAKE A LONG WALK
ON A SHORT DOCK


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chick with 'wadded' feet -- lynette, 16:46:13 05/13/10 Thu [6]

I just discovered a silkie chick that is now 2 weeks old walking with its feet sort of wadded up. The toes are not spread out properly but sort of curled to the inside, causing it to walk on the outside of the foot. I am guessing that at this age there might not be anything that I can do. I can sort of massage the feet a bit; but the chick is not happy about it.


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Replies:

[> Re: chick with 'wadded' feet -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:01:49 05/13/10 Thu [1]

It is true that this problem should have been treated as
soon as the chick was hatched. As a chick grows the tendons
and ligaments shorten and harden and the bones of crooked
toes grow worse.
Try hard to do more massage and as you do that stretch
those toes into normal position. Do this several times a
day.
Read my article at UPA website and try making the "shoes".
http://www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/


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[> [> ? about 'shoes' on a silkie chick -- lynette, 14:51:58 05/14/10 Fri [1]

Thank you for your advice. I can massage the feet open but I have some questions about the 'shoes'. I have some white pipe cleaners, probably smaller than that used for pea chicks; I hope that will work. The chicks feet are covered with feathers, so I am hoping that paper first aide tape will work.

My question: does the 'shoe' go on the bottom of the foot or on the top, or does it matter? Also I can see taping the long toe; but one of the next toes is extremely small (the toe under the feathers). I guess that I just do my best. (Envisioning needing more hands - but such a small, wiggly foot.)


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[> [> [> Re: ? about 'shoes' on a silkie chick -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:40:36 05/14/10 Fri [1]

Lynette,
You are welcome. Can you clip the chick fuzz off those
toes? But if there are pinfeathers do not clip due to
the fact that they would bleed.
Chick shoes are meant to be taped to the bottom of the
foot.
Working with an extra short toe will indeed be a test of
your manuel dexterity.
Which reminds me--when taking a stubborn kink from baby
peafowl toe I use a thin strip of duck (duct) tape because
this gives a stronger hold. This would be a good idea with
your chick.
Extra hands would be good but I used to operate camcorder
(back when I had one) on tripod aimed at my hands as they
worked on my tiny patients. The camcorder was attached to
TV so that I could watch myself working. Only ONE pair of
hands to do all that. In my better days I had a Tae Kwon Do
master who told me that "nothing is impossible".
How I do miss my better days!


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[> [> [> [> silkie 'wadded' feet - we have progress -- lynette, 02:14:49 05/16/10 Sun [1]

It turns out that I had two chicks in the same hatch with toe problems that I am sure are related to humidity hatch issues. I am very encouraged with our initial attempts at chick foot 'rehab', in conjunction with my review of the hatch process.

Both of the birds are silkies with the problem identified at about two weeks of age - so physical therapy of stretching and manipulating the feet muscles and tendons went on for several days as I gathered materials and formulated a plan. We trimmed feet feathers as close as we dared - silkie chicks have a lot of pin feathers on their feet.

Chick #1 only had a bent long toe - silkies have 5 toes and the 3rd toe is the longest out in front. This chick probably would have been fine without intervention; but, I wanted to test the 'shoe' on a 'simpler' client if possible. The 'shoe' was immediately accepted although I did put the bird with a younger hatch set while she figures out her feet. I am totally encouraged.

Chick #2 demonstrated much more severe problems with both feet; all 5 toes basically turned to the inside. (This meant that the chick was walking on the outside of her feet with her feet actually curled uselessly towards the inside.) It was very helpful to manipulate her feet at least 3 times per day to stretch the toes and ligiments.

This chick has made tremendous progress tonight - it may just be the beginning of therapy but it may also be enough to give her a good life.

My husband came up with an alternate plan based on the original 'shoe' that I used with the first chick. Now these are silkies with tiny feet and 3 toes in front and the toe on the outside of the foot is really tiny. (The 4th and 5th toes are on the inside of the foot and basically not useful to the balance if the bird.)

We trimmed the foot feathers as close as we dared. I had prepared the 'shoes', using 3" of standard pipe cleaner. I used 'paper' first aide tape as I have found it to work well with these featherleg issues.

So, the first chick with the more simple crooked toe, I used strips of paper tape to first secure the long 3rd toe to the middle section of the 'shoe'. Another piece of tape was needed to keep that crooked toe straight along the middle. And another section of tape was needed to secure the next longer toe to its corresponding pipe cleaner support system. I did not do anything with the inside toe - so, there was a pipe cleaner piece available with nothing secured to it. I was in a watch and adjust mode.

Now, the other bird that had really badly collapsed to the inside feet - amazingly she looks to be doing quite well. She may need some readjustment but is now walking on feet that are more properly placed.

What my husband suggested and what we did given the information from the first, less severe chick:]
- shoes were made in the same mode
- feathers trimmed where we dared
- using paper first aide tape
we fit the 'shoe' to the bottom of the foot and then put a piece of paper tape under that entire process, capturing the placement of the toes)w So, you might want to put the tape first under the shoe but then you need to adjust the toes to where they need to be. It might depend on how many hands you have available.

So now, you have a 'shoe' on the bottom of the chick's foot with the toes aligned with the pipe cleaner projections. Below the pipe cleaner is a piece of paper tape holding things in place.

Now, place a piece of paper tape over the top, trimming and folding the outside edges.

This now almost 3 week old chick with badly deformed feet is walking about in her new 'paddles' - they look like big paddles. We thought that we could trim them but the outside leverage would also be good as she re-establishes her balance and the necessary stretch that needs to happen.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: silkie 'wadded' feet - we have progress -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:05:42 05/16/10 Sun [1]

Thank you very much for your detailed progress report. This
may help others with the same problem


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: silkie 'wadded' feet - we have progress -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:32:17 05/30/10 Sun [1]

Another update would be nice


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Replies:

[> Re: Buy Branded Watches at Special Discount!! -- D C T--NOT friendly to this, 23:25:35 05/30/10 Sun [1]

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE
...GET YOUR OWN FORUM


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Replies:

[> Re: Online Payroll -- D C T--NOT friendly to this, 23:29:12 05/30/10 Sun [1]

THIS IS NOT A PAYROLL FORUM !!!
GET YOUR OWN FORUM


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I NEED HELP IN ORDER TO HELP OTHERS -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 09:37:11 04/07/10 Wed [3]

Back in the 1990s I made and copyrighted a videotape,
Orthopedics for Poultry Made Easy for Beginners.
------
I am getting old and so is my equipment. The camcorder is
beyond repair and the repair bill for the videptape copying
machine was a pain to a person with very accute cash
shortage.
------
I want to find a way to place my video on the internet so
that anybody anywhere can use it or even copy it free of
charge with no strings attached. I need help doing this.
------
I wish I had a modern video machine to create new video of
new things that I am learning but I was raised NOT
believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.


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Replies:

[> Re: I NEED HELP IN ORDER TO HELP OTHERS -- Laura, 07:04:58 04/13/10 Tue [1]

I will try to research most effective, efficient way this can be done & help as much as I can. I have very much appreciated your work to help people and their birds.


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[> [> Re: I NEED HELP IN ORDER TO HELP OTHERS -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 09:21:58 04/13/10 Tue [1]

THANK YOU, LAURA


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[> [> Re: I NEED HELP IN ORDER TO HELP OTHERS -- lynette, 00:40:14 05/14/10 Fri [1]

Laura - Can I help you with ideas or implementation?


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Replies:

[> WHO GAVE YOU PERMISSION TO POST HERE? -- D. C. Townsend, 09:41:11 05/12/10 Wed [1]

this forum is for those who want assistance with poultry
related problems--and nobody else!!!!!


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Chick with displaced Achilles -- C C C - elementary science teacher, 21:14:00 05/09/10 Sun [3]

Hi,
I have a chick that is now 4 days old that has always walked on his "elbows". I can feel that the tendon is not in place, but it will not begin to stay. I have been scouring the web for days now and I have read through all your articles about slipped tendons and chick chairs as well as others who have posted.

I tried to do duct tape right above the joint (on day 2), then right on the joint. I wasn't really able to do it right and it only caused the chick to not be able to walk at all. Since last night, I have him in a chick chair with food and water there. Also since last night, I am feeding him children's vitamins. I also have fed him some water and food with a pipet with some success.

Today I used mineral oil and took all the duct tape off. I think some of the swelling is down, but his little joints are all raw looking. I massages one and some liquid came out.

Should I keep him in the chick chair to heal him for a while before trying more treatment. If so, how long?

I read on one of your posts that you put tape on the ankle and stretched the leg back and taped it to the back of the chick chair. Would something like that work in this case?

This is my first hatch and it was a science project. All te other chicks are fine. I would like to be able to tell the children that I did everything I could for him.


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Replies:

[> Re: Chick with displaced Achilles -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:52:12 05/09/10 Sun [1]

NEVER PUT TAPE DIRECTLY ON THE MESSED UP HOCK JOINT OR ON
ANY PART OF LEG WITH FUZZ ON IT. This can cause the skin to
be abraded so that infection can start.
If this chick has been walking on its hock joints for four
days it is in bad shape by now. Resting in a "chair" might
give a chance for the swollen tissues to heal. It is
swelling that prevents the tendon from staying in place.
This is why it is so extremely important to treat a chick
the very instant that it hatches. Sometimes it seems just
like a miracle when I catch the problem in time, push that
tendon in place, and it stays there. Suddenly the chick
is able to stand up and walk normally.
But I have presevered with the more difficult ones using
the chair for weeks.


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[> [> Re: Chick with displaced Achilles -- C C C, 22:17:15 05/09/10 Sun [1]

Hi, o.k. I got the point with the duct tape - I won't do it again! It only walked around on the hock joints for about 1 1/2 days before I put the tape - then it couldn't walk at all.

Is there something I can do for its poor joints that I messed up with the duct tape - like antibiotic ointment or such?

I will keep it in the chair. Should I keep trying (I think you said in some posts) to coax the tendon into position several times a day?

It is pretty happy there - when it starts to cheep, a good rub between the shoulder blades usually does the trick.

Thank you


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[> [> [> Re: Chick with displaced Achilles -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:36:55 05/09/10 Sun [1]

Antibiotic ointment is good when used sparingly (to avoid
making the poor chick into a greasy mess).
Another choice is the sap of fresh cut aloe vera plant or
commercially prepared aloe in ointment with antibiotic.
The repair of a messed up Achilles tendon requires MUCH
tender loving care. Yes, those tendons should pushed into
place if this can be done without causing pain.
-------
I have seen legs that were not treated while young. The
tendon shortens and the joint becomes deformed so that
there is nothing that I can do for it


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Buff Orpington Broken leg? -- Terrie (worried chicken grandma!), 10:49:01 05/05/10 Wed [1]

My daughter has a 5 week old, healthy Buff Orpington hen. We had a windstorm that blew a board over on her. She has not been using her right leg since then. I've read through the posts here and upon examination, I'm pretty sure it's not a slipped tendon or a hock problem. Her toes are cold and dangle. She has no pain response until I get up close to the "drumstick" part of her leg. My 13 year old daughter is distressed she is going to lose Darling. Darling is eating, drinking, and pooping normally. She scoots around in her box. We separated her from the other chicks. I'm wondering if I can somehow splint and sling her for a time to see if it will heal. Any suggestions you may have are very much appreciated!


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Replies:

[> Re: Buff Orpington Broken leg? -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:18:07 05/05/10 Wed [1]

Years ago Mother threw a heavy metal rod at a bantam pullet
(Mother had Alzheimer's dementia)breaking the tibia just
above the hock joint. Some time later I had a yearling
peahen that had exactly the same break but did not see how
it happenned. Both of these birds had to be immobilized
with a carved sponge cushion between the legs after the
broken leg was splinted using plastic that curved to fit
snugly. The real job was placing the victim in box where
she could not move. There was a groove in the sponge so
that the manure could land in a container and be removed.
Food and water containers had to be where the bird could
reach them. It takes about three weeks for a bone to
knit.
In a sadder case there was a hen that I had to adopt after
her former owners had set a steel trap that broke leg
below hock joint cutting off circulation so that the leg
was lost to gangrene. I put thick bandage on the stump
until it healed


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very bad leg -- Marie Hunt, 21:38:21 04/11/10 Sun [2]

My poor little silkie, Esther, was born on April 1 and developed this problem one week later. I have called vets, farmers, pet stores - everyone I could think of and no one will even see her. Can you tell from the photos (links follow) what is wrong and what, if anything, I can do for her? She is still eating and drinking well but I believe this is becoming painful as she cries when I pick her up. She never did that before. Please help.


http://s708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/xcgsa/?action=view¤t=100_0151.jpg
http://s708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/xcgsa/?action=view¤t=100_0152.jpg


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Replies:

[> Re: very bad leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:03:45 04/11/10 Sun [1]

I have looked at those photos and am debating with myself whether this is
straddle leg or a twisted tibia.....when straddle leg is much easier to treat.

Please begin by making the hobble brace with whatever kind of tape
you have handy. Find picture of hobble brace at
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/

then photograph that and put it on photobucket
and let me see it.

Esther will tell you by her reaction if this is doing any
good


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[> Re: very bad leg -- Laura, 07:01:26 04/13/10 Tue [1]

There is a collection of poultry orthopedic treatment methods listed at http://sites.google.com/a/larsencreek.com/chicken-orthopedics/
Maybe some info there may offer additional help.
Best wishes to you!


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Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri (Help!?!), 19:46:11 01/27/10 Wed [11]

Ok I know you get alot of emails regarding legs, and i cant figure this one out so hopefully with your knowledge we will find a cure!!

I have a peachick that is 3 weeks old, has been doing great, up untill about 4 days ago. As this is my first shot at raising peafowl i am determined to get him better!

So i have done alot of research and found it is most likely 1 of 3 problems. (although i am dumbfounded as he doesnt fit any of them) so here goes:

1) Slipped tendon:
I have read that is he had a slipped tendon his knee would swell and get hot, his leg would shrink and he would be unable to walk. Well he can walk and even run just with a limp, he can fully stretch his leg out by himself, his hock joint is not swelling or hot to touch?? and the tendon feels in place...

2) From too much protein:
I have read if you giev them too much protein that they grow to quickly and they get lag problems with the extra weight gain. He is on turkey starter crumbles and has always been, i was giving him 1 boiled egg yolk per day, but now have stopped the egg and for treat he only gets lettuce (which has no protein).

3) Splayed leg:
For the first two weeks he was kept in a glass tank with lucerne chaff (horse food) on the bottom, and I didnt relize but he was slipping on it so it could be a splayed leg. Now i have changed the bedding to hay which he can grip on. The problem is i treid the hobble method but his leg is fine untill it reaches the knee then it just twists outward, so as much as i hobbled him it didnt work as the leg twists out so the hobble just pulled his knee into his other leg.

He is fine in himself and is eating and drinking alot, btu the leg issue is annoying me more then him.

I have read the UPA section but that only tells you about hobbles and tendons, I posted a thread in Backyard chickens and they were rather helpful but i just wanted another opinion as i am well and truly lost.... heres the link that has a pic on it of his leg:

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=289137

Thank you for your help!!

Cheers, Morri


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Replies:

[> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 00:27:21 01/28/10 Thu [1]

Morri,
The photo at Backyard Chickens was most helpful, and, YES,
that IS a twisted tibia. This can be treated successfully
"some" of the time unlike simple problems such as straddle
legs and rolled up toes on new chicks which can be repaired
100% of the time unless the patient dies of some other
problem. I have a green spalding peahen several years old
who shows NO evidence of her twisted tibia...so I will just
tell you her history. I named her "Firestone" for the tire
that was having bad defects that year.
Firestone began life by having several simple orthopedic
problems which I repaired without taking notes on what I
was doing. But when she was about two weeks old I was
horrified to see that a tibia was beginning to rotate or
twist. In the past I had NO treatment for this but I tried
a new experiment on Firestone. I wrapped one leg in sponge
carpet padding (to prevent bruising) then overnight I
taped both legs firmly together from top to bottom.
In the morning I removed the treatment so that she could
eat. I repeated the treatment for FIVE nights removing tape
in the morning. It was her struggles that pulled the
tibia straight.
REMOVE WATER DURING THE TAPING TREATMENT TO PREVENT
DROWNING. because one of my patients did drown during
what otherwise should have been a successful treatnent.
This taping method works best on small fuzzy chicks.
Now on the subject of FEEDING. In the past I did use
turkey starter but these days I use chick starter
(for chickens) that is medicated with Amprolium (for
coccidiosis) and seem to have fewer twisted tibias.
-----------------
There is a sponge brace that I make for older peachicks
but yours is too young to need that and I hope that your
peachick can be cured without it.


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[> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri, 01:07:38 01/28/10 Thu [1]

Thank you SO much!!! You have been most helpfull. Ok tonight i will make the sponge splint fo him just one question, do you have a pic of it?? that would make it easier or how far on the leg should the sponge go? and where do you tape from. I take it you wrap untill the hock the take untill the hock or do you do the whole leg?? should he be able to bend his leg to sleep. Thank you truckloads again for helping me!!!


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[> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 01:39:11 01/28/10 Thu [1]

You are welcome. I exist to serve my Creator by helping
His most helpless creatures

No pictures of taping method exist. Legs are permitted to
have normal bend at hock like a standing bird.
Start tape wrap just above feet and stop at hock joints.
It is NOT good to tape on fuzzy part of leg.
Actully the legs will be able to move a bit. Remember it is
the bird's own muscle action that pulls tibia back to
normal.
The lower legs are held together with the sponge preventing
the bruising of hock joints as they press together.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri, 02:00:22 01/28/10 Thu [1]

Thanks alot for this, so not that i want to think of this but if this treatment in not successfull than what happens?? He is NOT ging to be used for breeding unless the leg heals but he is mainly just a pet. So can he live with a bent leg because i really dont want to put him down although on that note i dont want him in pain. Thank you again and again and agian!!!!! :)


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 12:03:11 01/28/10 Thu [1]

Again, you are welcome. If all treatments fail it will be
time to decide how the bird feels about it. Some badly
disadvantaged birds solve the problem by giving up but some
want to live. I have a peahen named Crazy Legs who walks
around in a strange way due to failed treatment. She does
not have a male companion because the stress of breeding
could do more damage to her legs. She sleeps on a small
tire under a rain shelter in a secure pen.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri, 19:15:26 01/28/10 Thu [1]

Well thats great news then, its nice to hear crazy les is doing ok then! I hope she lives a fully happy life. We taped his legs last night, he didnt like it and kicked around but you did say that that only helps in possibly fixing the problem, last night i got up in the middle of the night to chick he was ok and he had pulled it off!! SO i had to tape it back on in the dark (he gets less stressed if you keep the lights off), then when i got up in the morning to put the water back in it was still on - YAY! So took it off and now he is happily munching on alfalfa. Im just so happy i found you or it could have gotten worse!! So thanks X a million.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:23:54 01/31/10 Sun [1]

You are welcome.
Please post an update so that I (and anybody that visits
this forum) can get "the rest of the story"
I hope that your peachick can get the results that
Firestone got


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri, 03:40:20 02/01/10 Mon [1]

Ok well tonight will be his 5th night and there isnt really much difference to his leg :( but im still hoping, we put divider in the cage as his companion, a chicken, who is 2 weeks older is getting abit to flighty and keeps jumping into him so we put a wire divider so they can still see eachother, he gets around with his legs together and hops like a kangaroo or flies, can we maybe put the tape on and leave it on for 5 days and give him supervised water drinking time every hour or so?? Or are there any other forms of treatment if this is unsuccessful thank you again!!


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:10:34 02/01/10 Mon [1]

There are more advanced treatments but I suggest continuing
the night tape with daytime free for a few more nights.
The most simple methods work the best.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?! -- Morri, 00:50:08 02/10/10 Wed [1]

Hi DCT, Well we have been taping his legs together for almost 2 weeks now and there is still no improvement. He is doing fine otherwise the twisted tibia, he eats, drinks, walks, jumps, flies and chases bugs. So what do you recommend we do for him now?? Thanks


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Peachick leg problem!?!--SPONGE BRACE -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:07:42 02/10/10 Wed [1]

since the night taping has not improved anything (though it
may have kept things from getting worse)it is time to stop
doing this. I kept sponge brace on Crazy Legs day and night
for a few weeks and then removed it. It is hard to say if
this did any good. This peahen walks in the strangest way.

The sponge brace was a piece of sponge material from a
discarded sofa cushion that I carved to fit between the
legs. That is, I cut a leg shaped groove on each side to
so that it would fit between the legs. This was held in
place with duck (or duct) tape.

Before trying this you may just want to observe the bird
for a few days and see how it is doing without the night
taping. If the leg is not getting worse and the bird is
enjoying life the way it is you might want to skip the
sponge brace because this device is more to prevent things
from getting worse. It was left on the legs full time for
several weeks.


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Injured Hock -- Andrew, 04:36:49 01/20/10 Wed [1]

Hi, I keep my three Cochin hens in a poultry cage sitting on some concrete salbs and this in turn sits in a fenced area so I let them out every day to roam. I moved the cage once to readjust its position on the slabs and Blueys foot got caught under it and I didnt notice - it was dark and it sat on her foot for ages . I feel terrible . When I removed it her foot was limp. I left it for a day to see if she would recover naturally but then took her to the vet who said it was hot and a little swollen but she gave her multi vitamins and an anti inflmatory and I kept he inside for a week in the warm i then popped her back outside with the other two. She was eating well and drinking too but this was thre weeks ago and I have noticed that she is getting quieter and her lower leg still seems very hot and inflamed and she wont put any weight on it . Most of her toes seem completley limp. Could she have torn her tendon? and the leg got infected? is ther anything I can do? is amputation a viable option if nothing else works?

Not really sure what to do - any help appreciated.

Yours guiltily

Andrew


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Replies:

[> Re: Injured Hock -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:03:51 01/20/10 Wed [1]

OUCH!!!
Keeping those hens in such a cage was an accident waiting
to happen. Take the hen back to vet to be checked for
gangrene....and be certain that you have a vet that is
trained for poultry. These are sometimes hard to find.
The word "ganrene" means that circulation was cut off long
enough for the leg to be dead. I really hope that this is
NOT true for the hen's sake....hmmmm....if it is hot then
the good news is that there is still circulation and the
leg is still alive.
As for amputation--that is a job for a real chicken
doctor. Some years ago I did adopt an unfortunate leghorn
hen unwanted after getting her leg caught in a steel trap.
This one legged leghorn lived in a pen with my other
disadvanteged poultry for a couple years before her death.


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Ex Battery hen with deformed feet -- Ruth Burroughs (Concerned), 16:03:19 01/15/10 Fri [4]

Toostie is approx 18 months old and came out of the cage 3 weeks ago. Although she is able to stand, all her toes are curled up underneath her foot and she cannot straighten them voluntarily although there is some extension possible when this is done involuntarily.She uses her wings for balance in order to move about. She has had her toes separated with wadding and vetwrap for 2 weeks but this has not helped. She is a very determined and engaging little character and we would like to try everything possible to improve her mobility.Video footage available if you think this might aid your diagnosis. Many Thanks.


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Replies:

[> Re: Ex Battery hen with deformed feet -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 15:55:07 01/16/10 Sat [1]

Tootsie has all my sympathy but repair of an old problem
is between difficult and impossible. And getting a video to
show up on my old computer could be about the same. But I
am always willing to try because that it the reason that I
exist.
If those toes can be stretched into a normal position
without hurting her (she will tell you if it hurts) they
can be taped in position. Or if they will bend just a bit
in the right direction you can do daily stretching
exercises with her


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[> [> Re: Ex Battery hen with deformed feet -- Ruth Burroughs (Concerned), 15:13:43 01/17/10 Sun [1]

Thank you for your reply. We shall persevere with the vetwrap strapping and gentle stretching as you suggested. Tootsie is such a cheerful litle hen despite her problems and is living indoors for now so that she can regain her strength. Even a little improvement will be worth it and we want her to be able to enjoy some time out of doors with the sun on her back when the weather improves. It may be that we will have to design and make her a pair of waterproof boots to wear because we are concerned she may abrade her feet when she is outside. Any design tips would be appreciated. We will attempt to send some photos via a word document so that you can see the extent of the problem.Thank you once again.
Ruth


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[> [> [> Re: Ex Battery hen with deformed feet -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:14:39 01/17/10 Sun [1]

You are welcome. I was able to view the photos in the word
document and enlarge the photos just slightly.
Tootsie needs to be kept on soft surfaces. Besides normal
chicken feed she should have a wide variety of vitamins and
minerals (in small quantities-and not all in same day)
Fresh raw produce finely chopped is rich in vitamins and is
a real treat to a chicken. Romain lettuce, brocalli,
cabbage, collards--the same stuff that is very good for
human health.
The toes should be stretched several times a day while
observing if the foot is getting more normal.
If those toes can be held in normal position without pain
it will be time to put on some chicken shoes which you will
have to custom make in her size. A picture of a chick size
shoe can be found in my article at UPA website. The baby
chick shoe is made of chenille stem (pipe cleaner) but an
adult chicken shoe is made of coat hanger wire or if you
want to be fancy aluminum wire is lightweight and can
be beaten flat and them wrapped in soft plastic tape for
comfort. Aluminum wire can be found on old TV antennas or
may be found in handicraft supply stores. When making an
aluminum shoe I make it a bit smaller than the foot because
when I pound the wire flat it will expand in all directions
so that it grows about a quarter inch longer.
OOOPS-forgot to give you the link to the picture of shoe
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/


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[> [> [> [> Re: Ex Battery hen with deformed feet -- Ruth Burroughs (concerned), 10:20:37 01/19/10 Tue [1]

Thank you for your advice on behalf of Tootsie. Re Diet she has a voracious appetite and is having fruit, vegetables,pasta, tuna, dried mealworms as well as 'chicken food'.
I have started putting a Glucosamine liquid supplement in her drinking water as well as a vitamin hen tonic. She has started laying again and seems very happy. I am stretching her toes but she immediately pulls them back into the curled position but I suppose it is early days yet. I rub some comfrey oil into the toes also. Re the shoes, I was thinking more in terms of the worst case scenario if we do not achieve any improvement. Then we will have to think about designing some boots to fit over her curled toes to prevent damage to her feet. At the moment she is indoors on rubber mats covered with thick soft wood shavings. We really appreciate your input on this.


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CHICKENS HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO LAY EGGS -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 18:45:13 12/15/09 Tue [1]

but they still remember how to eat!!!
They should be VERY thankful that I am NOT interested in
cooking and eating old tough chickens.
============
But I expect them to lay eggs again when the winter is over


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Replies:

[> one of them did lay a strange long egg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:37:44 01/08/10 Fri [1]

Probably the muscle of her oviduct is flaccid. Perhaps if
she exercises it there will be improvement.
Right now the weather here in Georgia, USA, is extra cold


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chick with bad leg -- janine, 05:55:39 11/14/09 Sat [4]

my chick is three weeks old and about a week ago her tendon slipped. We did not try anything to help at first, thought it might fix itself, didn't really know what had happened. I have tried to put her into a chick chair but she was able to use her wings to get out. I have now just tried to wrap the leg as straight as she is comfortable with. what else can I do?


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Replies:

[> Re: chick with bad leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:39:10 11/14/09 Sat [1]

This is difficult to cure but may be possible. It is easier
to treat a newly hatched chick that has displaced the
Achilles tendon while kicking out of the eggshell.
The longer a chick has struggled to walk with an injured leg the worse the swelling of the tissues and the abrasion
of the skin will be--making it harder to get that tendon to
remain in place after you push it to the center.
As for keeping a rebellious little bird in a chick chair--
you will need to wrap it in cloth or paper towel and then
tape this. You do not want sticky tape to get on feathers
or chick fuzz because it will increase the bird's
suffering.


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[> Re: chick with bad leg -- Chad Clayton, 16:27:46 11/27/09 Fri [1]

try pouring some beer on it first. it seems to help with the dt's.


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[> [> Re: chick with bad leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:04:41 12/03/09 Thu [1]

hmmmmmm........
but there are NO alcaholic beverages in my refigerator


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pullet with injured leg -- sylvia (:(), 10:07:05 10/19/09 Mon [10]

I have a pullet approximately 8 months old with a bad leg. She was fine for about the first 4-5 months, then started limping and keeping off one foot. I could find no broken bone. She would stand and stretch her foot forward but not put much weight on it. Her hock is enlarged and feels slightly warm and seems to have some fluid in it. Her toes on that foot do not curl to grasp so she cannot roost or scratch for food. I thought perhaps she had a slipped tendon. She seems to get enough to eat and drink and has managed to get around pretty well by hopping. I have not seen her try to fly, probably because she can't jump. I've kept her more as a pet because I didn'twant to cull her. Is there anything I can do to help her? Would a leg brace enable her to function better? I got her from a mixed exotic assortment from a hatchery and my best guess is that she's a Brahma. Sure would appreciate any advice or info you could give. Thanks.


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Replies:

[> Re: pullet with injured leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:04:52 10/19/09 Mon [1]

A chicken chair or a body sling may permit healing if this
is an injury....and will do no harm if it turns out to be
Marek's disease.
A body sling can be made by cutting two leg holes and a
hole for manure to fall through in a rag or old T-shirt
and hanging it in a cardboard box. Food can be placed wher
she can reach it but it is best to just offer water to her
several times a day and then remove it before it gets
spilled or she drowns in it.


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[> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- sylvia, 21:12:24 10/20/09 Tue [1]

I paid the nursery for the Marek's vaccine, so I don't think that is the problem, and it's been several weeks, even months since the injury. Could you speculate as to what it could possibly be? I just wonder because it should have had ample time to heal.


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[> [> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 09:28:33 10/21/09 Wed [1]

It has been over fifty years since I had a Brahma hen but I
know that this breed has feathers on the shins and toes
just like the cochins.
Do not try to tape or splint an adult chicken leg unless it
is broken. If she can not walk use a body sling or a
chicken chair. This can even be done "part time" by having
her in it at night but letting her out of it in daytime.
------
What could it be? .........if the joint feels hotter than
the rest of her it suggests inflamation which could be
injury or a hidden abbcess.
Healing takes time under the best circumstances. Chickens
benefit from rest and good nutrition--just like we do.


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[> [> [> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- Sylvia, 09:50:46 10/21/09 Wed [1]

Thanks so much for your information. She manages to get around by hopping. Would you recommend trying an antibiotic? and if so, what should I get? I have also put her in a restricted cage to limit her movement. Thank you again for your response!


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:53:10 10/21/09 Wed [1]

You are welcome. I exist to serve my Creator by helping
His weakest creatures.
I doubt that antibiotic would help. A really small dose of
prednisone for about a week might help....or might not.
It is good that she is in a safe cage.
I am sorry that I can not be of much help


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[> Re: pullet with injured leg -- catherine (sad), 13:43:07 10/29/09 Thu [1]

I have a day old chick whichI think has a slipped archilles tendon.I have tried to push it back with thumb and finger but am not sure where I should be pushing.
Please could you giveme some advice as I am very worried about this chick.Thanks


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[> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:45:12 10/29/09 Thu [1]

To put this tendon back into the groove that runs down the
center of the rear of the hock joint--very gently squeeze
the sides of this joint between your thumb and one finger.
If it persists in popping back out of place each time you
push it in then the chick must be put into a chick chair or
a body sling.
It was one year ago on Halloween night that I had a
beautiful chick with a tendon that would pop out of place
each time I took my thumb and finger off of it. So I used
a light bulb box some tape and some kleenex tissue and
fashioned it with scissors to make a tiny chick chair
because all my permanent chairs are peachick size and way
too big for a chicken's baby. I secured the chick in this
hastily constructed device. The next morning I let him
out of the chair. He needed no more treatment and is now a
very beautiful one year old rooster named Carnival.
He has three colors. Bright red, metalic blue/black with
white spangles.
To find a photo of a peachick in a chick chair go to
www.shagbarkbantams.com/faqleg.htm


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[> [> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- catherine bramwell (sad), 19:39:51 10/30/09 Fri [1]

Thanks for your reply. We tried to push the tendon back in but seems to keep coming out. I will try a chick chair tomorrow. It will be 3 days old, will it be too late,also does the tendon go back on its own if in the chair?
Thankyou Catherine


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[> [> [> [> Re: pullet with injured leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 20:25:43 10/30/09 Fri [1]

Catherine, You are welcome.
What happens after a tendon is pushed back in place can be
anything from instant success to miserable failure. Some
years ago the peachick that was the "star" in a segment of
my video was so wildly hyperactive with joy after its cure
that I had to wait for it to settle down so that I could
finish the video. But Carnival, the chick that was my
patient on Halloween 2008, (see post above) besides being
put in that hastily constructed "chick chair" had to have
the bad leg stretched out behind it. I used a quarter inch
wide strip of duck (duct) tape torn from edge of tape roll.
I attached one end of this tape to the foot and pulled leg
straight out behind the chick and attached the other end
to extension of chair. I could see the tendon move to
center as I did this. The next morning when I took off the
tape and removed Carnival from chair I held him in my
hands for a few minutes with no weight on the feet.
I slowly bent the treated leg while watching the tendon.
I moved his leg very gently and massaged the muscle up in
the "drumstick" very lightly. When I could see that leg
moving with tendon staying in place I set him on his feet
in the brooder. He has not had a bit of trouble with that
tendon since then.
----
There was a bantam chick brought here several years ago.
He was several days old because he had to wait for a long
ride up from south border of this state. It took me a week
to get his tendon to stay in place. And then as often
happens when there was a bad start, his tibia twisted and
took a month of really advanced experimental orthopedic
treatment to get him walking with all his parts in place.


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Peahen with leg out of joint -- Earl Powers, 20:58:56 10/16/09 Fri [5]

This is a terrific web site. I thank you so much.I bought a pair of india blue peafowl a couple weeks ago.After a week I noticed the peahens left leg was out at the knee joint and in towards the other leg.I thought it was broken. After finding this site last night I got up the nerve to trying fixing her.My daughters and I waited till dark this evening and went in the pen and snatched her off her roost. We covered her head with a towel and took her into the garage with the lights on low.She was just great she stayed very calm as I worked with her leg.I found no break so I thought it was out of joint. We wrapped the leg once with the velcro tape and then used two popsicle sticks as splints and wrapped again.When we put her back into pen she couldn't walk and her leg was straight out to the side. We took her back into garage and took the sticks out and rewrapped leg.Put her back into pen and she stood on her legs and so we left her alone.Point is I wouldn't had the nerve to try anything if I hadn't found this web site.I'll post again after a week when I take the wrap off. Thanks.


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[> Re: Peahen with leg out of joint -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:45:14 10/17/09 Sat [1]

You are welcome. Thank you for visiting my website.
I really would like to see a close up photo of this
peahen's leg. I do not use popsickle sticks and am curious
how well they will work for you. Unfortunately there seems
to be no way to get a photos to appear here. They can be
put at special websites such as villagephotos.com or
photobucket and then put the link here or you could email
me IF the file is not to big for my old computer to
download. email me at
townsend@pineland.net


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[> [> Re: Peahen with leg out of joint -- Earl Powers, 20:07:36 10/17/09 Sat [1]

Well I'm sorry to say but the popsicle idea didn't work. The poor little thing,well not so little she is about 7 months old, couldn't even stand up this AM. Her leg was sticking straight out to her side. We took the wrap off and I checked her joints again and I really just can't see what the problem is.I moved both legs and really couldn't find any difference in them.I wrapped it lightly again and put her back into pen but all that did is allow to walk around but the left leg from the knee joint sticks out like she's bowlegged only in reverse. in others words her leg joint bows in towards her body while the lower leg bone sticks out to the side.I took the wrap back off and put back into the pen.I'll try to get a picture of her tomorrow and I'll find away to send to use.I really appreciate your time and patience with this.---Earl


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[> [> [> Re: Peahen with leg out of joint -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:44:13 10/17/09 Sat [1]

Well, now you may be able to guess why I have little use
the popsickle sticks.
But I now DO have a good idea about what the problem is!!!
If you can see nothing unusual about the hock joint and
there is not a broken bone about the only thing that can be
wrong it....TWISTED TIBIA which in a big bird is a bad
problem that tends to get worse. It took me a long time to
understand this problem and longer yet to find a treatment
that actually does work on small fuzzy peachicks.
A seven month old peahen is not quite full grown but she is
big, strong and very difficult to treat and the chance of
success is much lower. The material that I would use
in this case would be sofa cushion sponge cut into a
shape to fit between the legs and held in place with duct
tape...which no bird likes...


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[> [> [> [> Re: Peahen with leg out of joint -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:54:08 10/19/09 Mon [1]

After viewing photos I suspect that there is either an
injury or deformity of the hock joint.
Years ago I had a male green spalding that had a hock joint
that went bad at around six months old. The treatments that
I gave him failed to help. I did lower his perch and used
a six inch wide plank to make it easier for him to rest
on it. He lived thirteen years and did succeed in breeding.
But I suggest that a crippled female be penned with NO
male companions. I have a peahen named Crazy Legs that does
lay eggs which are infertile due to not having a mate.
I cook and eat these eggs.


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Adult Rhode Island Red Hen seems to have pulled or torn tendon -- Melissa Joslyn, 19:31:10 09/27/09 Sun [4]

2 days ago, I noticed one of our hens sitting funny and breathing hard. She was in our goat pen at the time, they have free run. She is about 5-6 years old. Anyway I went out to her and her right leg does not work. At first I thought it was broke, but now we are wondering if it may be a ligiment or tendon. There is more give at the "knee" joint than in the other leg. So we wre not sure what is wrong. Her toes do not move, just limp. The leg anf foot are still warm. We did use a human finger splint with some gauze and taped it up, so hopefully she will not do any more damage. If you could help us with some kind of thoughts on what may be wrong and what we could do, we would appriciate your time. Thank-you! She is a wonderful girl and part of the family.


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[> Re: Adult Rhode Island Red Hen seems to have pulled or torn tendon -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:09:27 09/27/09 Sun [1]

In my distant past I have treated three different hens that
had broken tarsal bone. (the shin bone that is covered with
scales) By the time that I got to the second one of those
hens I had strong suspician that if was from being stepped
on by horse but in the third case I was there the push the
horse off of her. I cut my splints from plastic tubing
using hack saw to split tubing lenthwise to make a very
form fitting splint. Those hens did recover.
Around ten years ago I had a one year old peahen that had
her leg broken just above hock joint. After splinting I
created a special piece of sofa cushion sponge form
cut to fit between her legs and restrained her in a
box. I provided for "sanitary needs" by making a channel
in that sponge that caused the manure to land in a plastic
container for easy removal. it took three weeks for the
bone to mend and a couple more weeks of gentle therapy
to get her walking again.

yes, I suspect that your hen may have a broken bone
unless a disease is affecting a nerve


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[> Re: Adult Rhode Island Red Hen seems to have pulled or torn tendon -- Melissa Joslyn, 20:34:45 09/29/09 Tue [1]

Thank-you for getting back to me so promptly. I have had her leg splinted since Friday. But took it off today as I took her to work with me, which is at an animal hospital. They only see dogs and cats and are not up on barnyard animals, but I did talk one of the Dr.'s in to looking at her. He felt her leg real well, and she has no movement in her toes on that right foot. If lifted, supported and allowed to stand on them, the toes just roll under. He was thinking maybe it was more nerological. Wondering if something had been pulled around the hip area, if there had been trauma. We did an xray on her, which actually came out pretty good. But they still are not sure, no sign of an actual break. She is still eating and drinking good for us, so we hate to give up on her. The Dr. started her on Metacam and Albon after looking on a veterinary website. But they are all unsure of chicken care where I work. Have you seen some with nerological symptoms and can they come out of that. She was very stressed after her day today and when she was breathing it sounded wet. Like a person with broncitis or pneumonia. Only when she is stressed does she sound like this. She's only been setting due to her leg and I worry about her lungs. That foot has no reaction to pain either and she does not pull back when it is extended. Should she be in some kind of a sling ? She has had loose, yellow stool since all this has been going on. Is that just stress also. Any recommedations would be welcome. Any medication recommendations? Sorry for all the questions, But she's part of the family and there are not many places to go for chicken help at all. Thank-you for you time !!


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[> [> Re: Adult Rhode Island Red Hen seems to have pulled or torn tendon -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:00:49 09/29/09 Tue [1]

You are welcome.
Two possibilities are botulism and Marek's disease.
Botulism is a toxin that comes from eating an infected
maggot. (most maggots are NOT infected) and, yes, this is
the same stuff that people pay big money to have injected
to remove wrinkles from face.(Bo-Tox)
Marek's disease occurs in adult birds while botulism more
commonly happens to juveniles. I have used body slings or
chick chairs for both of these.
I like to give sick birds raw vegetables of the green
leafy variety, hard boiled eggs, and vitamins.
Some do recover and some die.


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turkey with very sore leg -- alex (:(), 11:25:11 08/29/09 Sat [7]

I have 2 turkeys around the age of 3 months on is fine and growing well but the other a little girl is not , the part 2 days i have seen that one of her legs has started to turn right out at the knee she is trying her best to keep up with the other but its just to sore for her.
i had a look for any broken bones but it seems like there is not any, her knee is swollen but not to bad she is looking very under the weather and has to sit down to rest alot,i tryd to splint it the last day or two but still its bent it looks like its buckled, she's about half the size on the others and her feathers are poor,they have all been treated for parasites so it cant be that she's sames the runt, :( please help. xxx


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[> Re: turkey with very sore leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:18:47 08/29/09 Sat [1]

I am very sorry that I can not be of much use in a problem
like this one. I have some good treatments for newly
hatched birds and know how to splint broken wings and legs.
But your three month old turkey probably has a twisted
tibia (bone called drumstick). I have treated this on very
young peafowls and chickens but my attempts to treat
turkeys have all ended in failure....with the problem just
getting worse until the turkey gives up and dies


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[> [> Re: turkey with very sore leg -- alex, 06:02:47 08/30/09 Sun [1]

awryt i think that is wat must be wrong with her she is a sweet heart and always seem's to get her self in to trouble from a young age she has always been behind everyone else,is there anything that i have done that could have made her like this , there all on turkey grower pellets,i just dont understand. she hand feeds and drinks right now today she was very happy to see me and stood up on her one gd leg as the other is in a splint,i hope i can fix her if not i will have to get her put to sleep but i will give it a good try, also today the swelling has gone down and she seem's more active and happy with her self, am just scared that if the leg does heal it wont be able to suport her weight not that she is ever goin to be a big turkey.

thank u for ur help :)

xxxx


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[> [> [> TWISTED TIBIA TREATMENT -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 08:44:21 08/30/09 Sun [1]

baby turkeys grow very fast and this is especially true of
the large meat breeds. The starter feed for turkeys also
encourages fast growth which is hard on the tender bones of
the young bird.
On a wild side note: I learned that angel wing in geese can
be prevented by letting a large portion of the diet be
grass with just some starter feed.
Just as humans need plenty of natural fruits and vegetables
poultry thrives on a mixed diet.
-----
If you wish to treat your pet you can try the methods that
I used for threatment and cure of peafowl babies.
Some of this may be found by scrolling down this forum.
I have to go offline now to get ready to go to Church but
will come back later to re-post those methods in this
thread.


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[> [> [> [> Re: TWISTED TIBIA TREATMENT -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:00:22 08/30/09 Sun [1]

It took me a long time to understand this problem and find
a treatment.
I have a green peahen named Firestone (for the tire that
had a bad defect back around the time that she was hatched)
In the first couple weeks of her life she had some very
ordinary problems that I repaired so easily that I did not
take any note of it and considered the job done......
then her tibia twisted. Each night for five nights I
wrapped one leg with sponge and then taped both legs
firmly together (the sponge was to prevent bruising)
and removed the sponge and tape each morning. Her
struggles are what untwisted the tibia for a complete
cure so that there is NO evidence that Firestone ever had
a twisted tibia.
ALWAYS REMOVE WATER CONTAINER WHILE A BIRD IS TAPED THIS
WAY OR DROWNING CAN OCCUR.
-----
Another method for treating this problem is the "sponge
brace" which is a piece of sponge cut from old sofa
cushion the right size to fit between the bird's legs
and with L shaped groove on each side to fit the legs.
This is kept between the legs with duct tape. You must
observe to see if the bird can walk with this because it
is kept on full time for at least a week.


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[> [> [> Re: turkey with very sore leg -- alex, 14:25:36 08/31/09 Mon [1]

thank sooo much for the help i think i will do the sponge and the tape,do i just tape like i would a broken finger to the other leg?

thanks agen for the help she is very special to me.

AlexXx


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[> [> [> [> Re: turkey with very sore leg -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:19:02 08/31/09 Mon [1]

Alex,
You are welcome. Yes, if you are going to use the night
time taping just wrap either leg with sponge taping the
sponge first--then bring legs firmly together and tape
them. Do not forget to remove water during the night.


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DISPLACED ACHILLES TENDON -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:51:09 08/10/09 Mon [2]

Sun Dancer had two newly hatched peachicks on Sunday
morning August 2. She incubated the eggs under a shelter
in a secure pen. I moved the family to a large pet box
in kitchen for safety. The next morning one of the
peachicks was down with the left Achilles tendon displaced.
It is likely that Sun Dancer had acidentally stepped on it.
I had to act promptly to save the peachick.
So I returned Sun Dancer to her pen, keeping peachicks warm
in brooder. I placed the injured peachick in one of my
"chick chairs". Then I attached a thin strip of duct tape
to the ankle of the injured leg pulling the leg backwards
so that the presure would pull the tendon back into the
groove where it belongs (attaching other end of tape to
the rear of the "chair") and left it in brooder overnight.
In the morning I released the tape and took the peachick
out of the "chair".
The tendon was back in place but the leg muscle had
tightened as I expected and needed to be massaged very
gently while I slowly flexed the hock joint while keeping
a wary eye on that troublesome tendon. When the leg
seemed ready I let the peachick go back with its
companion in the brooder. It was able to walk and begin
life. On Thursday of that week the family was reunited
in a cage in a protected pen. I watched to be certain that
they all remembered eachother because if Sun Dancer did
not recognise the peachicks she would have killed them!!!
but all went well as her mother instinct was strong.
THERE HAS BEEN NO MORE TROUBLE FROM THAT TENDON


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[> DEAD PEACHICKS -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 09:27:57 08/16/09 Sun [1]

Sun Dancer and the two peachicks were OK until Saturday
when the peachicks showed signs of weakness. It had been
rainy here and perhaps the food got wet or water was
contaminated. I brought the family back to the pet box
in kitchen Saturday night. Found the peachicks dead on
Sunday morning. I have returned Sun Dancer to her pen.
She does not understand why her babies are not with her


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wobbly legs - very unstable -- lynette, 11:07:26 07/20/09 Mon [2]

I have a young bantam (cross between a nankin & a silkie - looks mostly like a nankin), maybe about 8 weeks old. I had put it out with some other birds and its head was badly pecked. So, I brought it back in. The head wound has cleared but ever since it was attacked, the bird is very wobbly on its legs. The legs don't appear to be injured; but, the bird has trouble moving because it tips back and forth with each step.

I had been putting it outside in a wire cage set on the ground. It seems that the bird squats more now. So, I have found an outside placement that is on the ground - mostly hoping that some physical exercise would help.

I realize that I am not providing much information to help in diagnosis. But, I am looking for someway to help support this bird. She is a sweet thing and I would like to have her eventually integrated into the regular coop.


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Replies:

[> Re: wobbly legs - very unstable -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:14:00 07/20/09 Mon [1]

the injuries may have weakened this bird so that an
infection could weaken it some more. I suggest taking it to
a veterinarion.
If you can not do this try vitmins and/or some raw green
leafy vegetables finely chopped.


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Turkeys not walking -- Morgan, 17:08:47 07/08/09 Wed [3]

We found a nest of turkey eggs where the mother had been hit by a car, so we took them in and got them to the point of hatching. They hatched about a day and a half ago and only two are currently able to walk. The rest have their legs out to the side and are pushing themselves on their bellies. One is doing this and has not opened his toes yet. I read on one website that it is a good idea to tie the legs together at the ankles leaving a small gap for them to try walking. We tried this with some yarn, but it keeps sliping to the top of the legs. Is there anything else we can do? Those not walking haven't learned how to eat or drink, so I am getting worried about them.


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Replies:

[> Re: Turkeys not walking -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:13:51 07/08/09 Wed [1]

Have you read my article at the UPA website?
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
If not please read it.
there is a picture of the "hobble brace" for straddle legs
and the "chick shoe" for curled or crooked toes.
These problems need to be treated as soon as possible


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[> [> Re: Turkeys not walking -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:43:58 07/09/09 Thu [1]

One thing I did not notice--that you used yarn to make
your hobble brace and had problem with it slipping up,
USE TAPE TO MAKE HOBBLE BRACE....this will prevent slipping


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CRUSHED HOPE -- D C T--friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:15:21 07/08/09 Wed [1]

Malpo had four eggs in her nest when she began incubating.
After more than a week went by I noticed only three eggs--
and a bad smell. The remains of the broken egg were near
but not in the ground nest. There was no evidence that life
had begun in that egg. When more than half of the 26 dsy
incubation period was over I found a broken egg on the far
end of the peafowl pen containing a dead peachick. I
candled the remaining two eggs and found that one had a
live peachick inside. I returned both eggs to Malpo and
she continued incubation. This morning I checked and found
the worst news--a crushed eggshell with a dead peachick
under Malpo. This peachick was fully formed except for the
closing of the naval. I removed the dead baby to wash and
examine it. I also removed the bad egg. Poor Malpo
returned to the nest and sat there with head under her
wing. Then Firestone (peahen that has NOT layed any eggs
since her first breeding season years ago) drove Malpo off
the nest. Perhaps Firestone caused some of the problem--
or all of it.

---


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Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- Keleey, 18:50:10 06/29/08 Sun [6]

Hi, we've got 2 of 6 keets hatched (our first time). One has it's toes on both feet curled up. The other is the main worry, with it's leg twisted & behind the other. I've read in the other posts that the splayed treatment may fit the behind problem but what do we do about the twist? We can send pictures if it helps. We've been advised to cull them but both are eating & drinking fine.

Please help. Keeley


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Replies:

[> Re: Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:46:55 06/29/08 Sun [1]

For baby chickens and peafowls I use the "chick shoe"
but baby guineas have such fat stubby toes that it may be
better to cut a piece of duck tape (duct tape) hold the
toes straight and put the tape under the foot. Then put
another piece of tape on top.
The one with twisted leg probably has a displaced Achilles
tendon. This happens when baby poultry kick off the eggshell
under dry conditions. Please read my article on UPA site"
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
and if you have more questions just ask


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[> [> Re: Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- Keeley, 15:32:35 07/01/08 Tue [1]

Thanks for your guidence, we will carry out the advice immediatly, however one thing I didn't mention was that the elbow joint is forwards, not backwards when the leg is manipulated back into position & straightened. I will try to put pictures on the places you suggested tonight as I hope you can get back to us tonight if possible.
Thanks .... Keeley


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[> [> [> Re: Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:42:26 07/01/08 Tue [1]

Keeley,
The pictures that you made and put on villagephotos did
indeed show me the magnitude of the problem. I am sad to
say that there is nothing in my videotape that would help
your guinea's deformed hock joint.
Even if you lived next to me and I could treat this bird
myself it is not very likely that I would do it much good.
But if you wish to persist on treating it try to get some
modern cast making plastic--the kind that will harden after
you have shaped it. Then make the cast in the shape of a
good leg.
Some years ago there was an old lady in nearby town that
called me to treat her newly hatched chicken. Unfortunately
the chick had an incomplete joint capsule that only God
could repair. I had the sad task of placing this chick on
an outdoor work table and bringing my martial arts trained
fist down on it very suddenly so that death would be swift.
Another way to kill as painlessly as possible is to very
suddenly cut off the head.
----
I am sorry if this seems disturbing. Actually I have
sometimes kept and cared for hopeless cripples until they
died. I kept Murhphy Peacock for seven very long years
and as he left me I told him to "Fly to Heaven"


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[> [> [> [> Re: Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- Shirley (sad and concerned), 12:06:16 06/02/09 Tue [1]

I saw this post and was hoping I could see the pictures. I have a 6 days old RIR chick that has a bad leg. I am pretty sure its a slipped tendon. Originally she had the curled foot and I didn't know about the tendon problem until I started reading here and BYC. The tendon is real swollen. She just holds the leg up. I have her immobilized now in a 'chick chair' using a piece of foam in a box. I just don't know how long to keep doing this. She is still so tiny. Her sisters are probably 3 times her size now. If I hear from you I will take some pictures for you
I'd appreciate any advice.
Shirley


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Guinea Fowl Chick - deformed leg -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:49:28 06/02/09 Tue [1]

I am not certain if those pictures can be found now but I
will try to e-mail you a picture of my onw chick chair as
soon as I get this post sent


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Silkie chick needs help -- Wanda Garner, 03:30:11 05/31/09 Sun [2]

I have a 3 day old silkie chick in trouble. I noticed the first night that he had one leg which appeared crippled, he held it very close to his body and did not use it at all.

I did some research and read that it might just need some therapy, so several times a day I have been working with that little leg, excercising it, stretching it, and massaging it. I actually thought it might work.

Today however, I discover that the leg is now hanging to the outside of it's body, instead of being held close to the body. It's little toes appear curled and the entire leg appears almost lifeless. He has scooted around the brooder all day (on his belly) picking up bits of food scattered by the other chicks. More than once I have found it laying in the waterer, no doubt trying to get a drink. For the time being I have him separated from the other chicks. I do not know what to do and do NOT want to have to cull this baby. Please can you help?


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Replies:

[> Re: Silkie chick needs help -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 07:32:54 05/31/09 Sun [1]

This seems to be a displaced Achilles tendon--I do hate to
sound like an old fashioned record (the kind that keeps
repeating itself due to damage of the groove) but this
tendon can be pushed out of place when the chick is
hatching and has to kick its way out of the eggshell. This
occurs way too often. If caught as soon as it happens there
can seem to be a miriacle when I take a thumb and finger
on the sides of the hock joint and very gently squeeze the
tendon back to the center of the joint. This tendon
goes down the rear of the leg connection the muscle in
the "drumstick" to the bone in lower leg. When the tendon
is out of place the lower leg can not move and usually the
toes are rolled up too.
When an untreated chick struggles the problem keeps getting
worse
You can scroll down this forum and find MUCH more
information on this. I need to go offline right now and
go to Church but hope to return tonight and check for
any questions that you have


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3 week old chick with tendon problem -- cindy, 00:44:58 05/21/09 Thu [6]

just took baby chick to vet .they said its tendon.have baby in sponge brace ,vet said it might get better .what do you think??can tendon be fixed,vet couldnt get it back into place,maybe after swelling goes down?i am really attached to baby and dont want to put him down.do you have any options that i could try if this fails??


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Replies:

[> Re: 3 week old chick with tendon problem -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 06:34:15 05/21/09 Thu [1]

A problem like that MUST have effective and persistant
treatment right now. There is some possibility of a cure.
Can you take close up photos of the leg (rear view) and
post those photos at a photo storage website such as
villagephotos or photobucket? Other websites like that do
exist but I can not think of their names right now. Post
the link to it right here.
Sending photo to me directly can fail if the size of the
file overwhelms my very old very slow computer. Small ones
have made it to me but for some reason a small photo can
turn into a big file wasting your time and mine while
failing to make it to me.
I do have a method for treating a chick such as yours
besides the sponge brace. Whatever method is used you
must keep the chick in a safe place where you can check on
it often


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[> [> Re: 3 week old chick with tendon problem -- cindy, 20:23:32 05/22/09 Fri [1]

im not able to get a pic up.but i will explain,the tendon on leg is out to the side of his legthe part on foot is lined up right but by his hock wont move,vet said that calcium fused on there.i cant find anyone that will do little surgery on his leg.can you tell me if i can do anything.hes the greatest little guy.


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[> [> [> Re: 3 week old chick with tendon problem -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 20:40:22 05/22/09 Fri [1]

OK,
here is a treatment to be applied overnight--every night
and removed each morning.
REMOVE WATER CONTAINER DURING NIGHT TREATMENT OR DROWNING
CAN HAPPEN!!!!!!
Before taping give the joint a massage to loosen the tendon
as much as possible but listen to the chick and stop if it
cries out in pain.
Cut a piece of carpet padding sponge (or kitchen sponge)
and wrap one leg in this and tape it.--this is to prevent
bruising.
Then bring both legs together and tape them together
overnight.
Check progress each morning when removing tape. This
treatment can go on for several weeks


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[> Re: 3 week old chick with tendon problem -- cindy, 22:00:33 05/22/09 Fri [1]

will this help him so he can use the leg again??im trying to contact a vet can a surgery help fix tendon??


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[> [> Re: 3 week old chick with tendon problem -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 08:31:47 05/23/09 Sat [1]

If you can find a vet that will treat your chick then do it.
A chick that age is hard to treat. My methods work best on
newly hatched poultry.
But older chicks have sometimes been cured after much effort
-------
A problem that often follows a displaced Achilles tendon
is a twisting of the tibia. This is treated by the same
method that I just gave you


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NEIGHBORS HEN!--WOULD LIKE TO HELP IT.... -- SHAWN, 23:12:21 05/16/09 Sat [2]

I have had a wonderful time reading all the stories of people and birds that you have helped...
My situation is somewhat odd. My neighbor has three Hens that she doesn't take very good care of. Recently her red hen (I call her Dorothy.) has been limping around--the limping has gotten significantly worse, and she is now spending most of her time propped up against the chicken wire sleeping. I sneak over in the evenings and give her tid-bits of greens and corn, but she has not been eating much. The neighbor finally asked someone about the Hens foot/leg and was told she had "twisted leg syndrome" and there was nothing she could do. She is planning on just letting nature do its work without trying to at least make the hen comfortable. Is there anything that CAN be done, such as splinting, removing it from the other hens, or any medications, that might help her be more comfortable? I think she would let me take her if I ask, but I would like to have some sort of plan or know what to expect. I know NOTHING about Chickens, but I know A LOT about doing what I can for animals in need. Any help would be much appreciated.
Are you in Milledgville?


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Replies:

[> Re: NEIGHBORS HEN!--WOULD LIKE TO HELP IT.... -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 09:35:51 05/17/09 Sun [1]

Milledgeville??? hmmmmmmmm.........
Well, NO......but I hear that there is a mental hospital
there where some people believe that I belong!!!!!! but to
get to my home from there you would go through Dublin or
W'ville.
From what you say I would think that the hen has Marek's
disease which is often fatal as well as being frustrating
to treat. There are ways to make the victim more comfortable
but this DOES take time and effort.
I cared for a hen that went down with paralysis from
Marek's at age six months. In the following three years
she did recover some movement and was showing promise of
being able to return to flock just before she got tangled
in a morning glory vine and murdered by fire ants.
-----
to treat nerves damaged by Marek's disease or botulism
everything from cortizone (prednisone) to vitamins can be
used.


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Chicken foot not working -- Radha, 17:44:21 05/09/09 Sat [4]

I have a 5-6 week old Ameraucana who was walking around fine yesterday morning. In the afternoon when I let her out in the yard she jumped/flew down off a 2' garden box in a hurry. My son was trying to catch her and may have steped on her foot, I'm not sure. Anyway she is hopping around with her leg up and foot dangeling. She doesn't splay her foot out like the other one. She will sometimes put it down when trying to walk but doesn't put much weight on it.

The bones feel fine. Not sure if it is the tendon, both legs feel the same. She is eating and drinking fine. Lays down more then the other 3 she is with. Doesn't try to fly out of the box like usual.

With a displace tendon does it affect the foots function?


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Replies:

[> Re: Chicken foot not working -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:20:06 05/09/09 Sat [1]

If the Achilles tendon is displaced you can see it by
looking at the rear of the hock joint (joint where feathers
end and bare shin begins)--just compare the injured leg
with the good leg or with one of your other chicks.
Whatever the problem is rest in a body sling or chick chair
may permit healing to occur


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[> [> Re: Chicken foot not working -- Radha, 00:06:07 05/10/09 Sun [1]

Thanks for your response, I am still wondering if a displaced tendon would affect the foot function so it doesn't open/splay out like it is support to?

I'll try to post a photo tomorrow...

Tried to put her in a sling a couple of times and she was fine for awhile until she realized she was stuck in it and then struggled till she got out.


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[> [> [> Re: Chicken foot not working -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 08:54:22 05/10/09 Sun [1]

You are welcome.
Sorry that I failed to answer the rest of your question...
am getting old and was tired from working in my garden
Saturday evening so that I could go to Church on Sunday.
YES, a displaced Achilles tendon prevents the whole lower
leg and toes from working.
-----
No bird likes to be kept in body sling or chick chair and
will resist (unless it is about to die from an infection)
so the way to keep it in the device is to wrap it.


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Chick with tendon issue Maybe? -- Kylie, 19:26:24 04/28/09 Tue [2]

Had a chick hatch last night, it's foot was a little kinked. As it has pogressed we do have a problem. I posted on BYC and by the pics everyone thinks it is a tendon issue. There is no swelling and the chick is eating and drinking. It seems altogether healthy, it just can't walk. Can someone please so me pics of braces or something, I need a visual to make sure i heal this right.


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Replies:

[> Re: Chick with tendon issue Maybe? -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:48:33 04/28/09 Tue [1]

My old magazine article stored at the United Peafowl
Association website has pictures and instructions for the
repair of newly hatched chicks
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/


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Another suspected slipped achilles -- Dino, 22:42:01 04/16/09 Thu [4]

Hi there, we had a chick hatch 3 days ago and being completely clueless as to how long chicks take to stand we didn't realise there was a problem other than a late hatch. After reading your forum we realised what her problem was and decided to place her in a chair in the hope the hock swelling would go down enough to pop the tendon back in place. The only problem i have with this is i have no idea which side the tendon would be on and how best to carry it out. She is very weak also and we are having a hard time feeding her but we are trying multi vitamins tablets crushed and added to water, vitamin e oil and sugared water. Any advice would be greatly accepted. I have added a link to a picture of her where you can see the sore area too. It just seems so unfair for the little thing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w45/dinolote/102_5753.jpg
Many thanks Dino


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Replies:

[> Re: Another suspected slipped achilles -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:33:39 04/16/09 Thu [1]

The Achilles tendon goes down the MIDDLE of the back of the
hock joint, connecting muscle in "drumstick" to tarsus bone.
It can become displaced when a chick is kicking off the
eggshell. Sometimes it is easy to put back in place but
sometimes it can be VERY difficult due to swelling and
inflamation. This is why I use the "chick chair" to let
the joint heal.
I did look at the photo and believe that treatment is
possible


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[> [> Re: Another suspected slipped achilles -- Dino, 21:30:04 04/17/09 Fri [1]

Thanks so much for replying, unfortunately she died this morning. Think it all got too much for the little thing. I will have a much better idea in future what I am looking for regards hatching problems. Thanks again for replying though.
Dino


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[> [> [> Re: Another suspected slipped achilles -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:45:33 04/17/09 Fri [1]

You are welcome.
Sorry that your chick died. The stress from orthopedic
problems is fatal at times or there is infection. I believe
that some die of frustration. But a couple years ago there
was a bantam cockerel that endured a whole month of spending
each night connected to an experimental device for
removing a twist from his tibia. He came out with good legs
but he does hate me


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Poultry -- Foghorn greenhorn (:-/), 10:46:10 04/16/09 Thu [2]

HEEELP!!! ok i have a two week old Bantam chick that was doin fine , two days ago his right leg is straight out in front of him , foot seems "dead" and he cant put any weight on it , i have read the posts and think maybe the tendon , any opinions, instructions,hope ???!!!


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Replies:

[> Re: Poultry -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:48:16 04/16/09 Thu [1]

Considering the age of this chick I would suspect botulism.
which causes paralysis and sometimes muscle spasms.
Scroll down this forum to Glenda Heywood's posts and find
links to her website where there is much information.
I do put victims of this in chick chair during treatment to
prevent damage to joints when chick struggles. If a joint
tries to bend the wrong way due to muscle spasm I tape the
leg to prevent joint damage.
But then this chick just might have injured a joint and
not have botulism. However most orthopedic problems
occur at hatching time--especially the kind that can be
treated and cured


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Chick with forward bend around elbow -- Heather (worried), 09:19:12 04/02/09 Thu [4]

Hello, I have a week old cornish X chick who has a strange issue with it's leg. This chick can stand, walk and lay down BUT at times when it is standing or walking it's right leg will bend forward like a human knee at or just below the elbow joint. It is real hard to tell exactly which it is. the chick is eating, drinking and moving around well. There does not seem to be any swelling or heat at the joint. I can flex it in normal movement just fine, but it also seems "loose" and will bend forward at times when the chick stands or moves, but not all the time. Chick does not seem to be in pain. I have never seen this in any chick before. I am feeding 24% medicated chick grower crumbles and he is in a container with 5 other smaller chicks.

Have you ever seen or heard of this? Should I be worried and is there anything I can to help it?

Thanks in advance!!


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Replies:

[> Re: Chick with forward bend around elbow -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:29:17 04/02/09 Thu [1]

I am not certain what you mean by "elbow" because no such
thing exists on poultry leg. There is a hip joint at top end
of femur. On lower end of femur is a stifle joint connecting
the femur to the tibia. At lower end of tibia is the hock
joint connecting tibia to the tarsus. The tarsus is covered
with scales and the lower end of that is where the toes
begin.
Perhaps you mean hock when you say "elbow". If this joint is
loose and going wrong way a brace can be cut from the handle
of a plastic half gallon milk jug and taped on to prevent
joint from going wrong way


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[> [> Re: Chick with forward bend around elbow -- Heather, 06:21:37 04/03/09 Fri [1]

Yes I mean the hock. Where the feather meat the scaley part of the shin on the chicken....


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[> [> [> Re: Chick with forward bend around elbow -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:33:47 04/03/09 Fri [1]

OK, then what I said about making a brace using the jug
handle of plastic milk jug is the way to go.
The angle where this kind of jug handle bends is exactly
right for hock joint of chick. The plastic is easily cut
with a good pair if scissors. It can be measured and marked
before cutting. You do not want the whole handle but should
split it to make a bent splint for the purpose of preventing
that leg from bending the wrong way.


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could this be hip dysplasia? -- lynette, 19:14:06 04/01/09 Wed [5]

I have a three day old chick that is holding one leg out to the side - looks kind of like a peg leg that is too long. I have checked for slipped achilles tendon and the tendon does seem to be moveable; but, I cannot get it to pop back into place. A online friend said the chick would not put her foot down if she had a slipped achilles tendon - she would hold it up. Does my description sound more like the hip dysplasia, where the hip is rotated incorrectly? If it does, then I am guessing that I have no hope for the chick.

Ideas or suggestions are certainly welcome.


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Replies:

[> another thing I noticed -- lynette, 21:03:13 04/01/09 Wed [1]

Also, I noticed that the chick does not put her foot down completely. She can use that foot but only uses her tippy toes, so the bottom of the foot is elevated. She is getting to food.


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[> Re: could this be hip dysplasia? -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:01:29 04/01/09 Wed [1]

I strongly suspect that a displaced Achilles tendon is the
problem. If you scroll down this forum you will find MANY
questions--and just as many answers (treatment methods) for
this. But if you still have any doubt--you can post a
closeup photo of the chick's leg on one of those photo
storage websites such as villagephotos or photobucket and
then post a link to it here. If you do that I will try to
look at it and then post here to tell you what I think. If
you want me to e-mail you a picture of my chick chair put
your e-mail address here...or find picture at
www.shagbarkbantams.com/faqleg.htm


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[> [> fighting the sling cannot be good for the tendon -- lynette, 17:06:44 04/02/09 Thu [1]

I have fashioned a chick sling out of a painters mask and she is suspended in a small box. But, she bounces off the bottom of the box trying to free herself. This does not seem like it would be helpful to her joint at all. But, the instructions that I saw said to make sure that the chicks feet were touching the bottom (of the box).

So far I have not gotten her to eat or drink - she is mostly fighting.

Am I missing something?


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[> [> [> Re: fighting the sling cannot be good for the tendon -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:13:30 04/02/09 Thu [1]

A displaced Achilles tendon is often very difficult to
to keep in place. The reason for keeping the patient in a
chair or body sling is to permit the swelling to go away
so that the tendon can settle into the groove where it
belongs. Sometimes this repair is quick and easy but MOST
of the time it is somewhere between difficult and impossible
I am sad to say. I have had some that took a week of work
before the stubborn tendon would stay in place and some
that failed or the patient died of frustration (stress)


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HOW TO GIVE VITAMIN E IN CHICKEN DIET -- Glenda L Heywood (facts), 16:01:09 03/29/09 Sun [1]

HOW TO USE VITAMIN E IN CHICKENS DIET
Glenda L Heywood

QUESTION
I want to give my hen a vitamin E suppliment. How much do I give and how often? She isn't laying and I've tried everything. From the board at: http://www.asbc@yahgroups.com I got this information also:

I don't know about giving Vit. E to help with laying problems, but only for Vit. E deficiency in young birds. How old is your bird? When did she stop laying? Has she undergone any stress at all (new birds to the flock, a move to a new pen, anything new or different in her environment)? Does she look "droopy" in any way?

For Vit. E Deficiency I've used the human vitamin gelcaps, 400 IU. I slit the end of the gelcap and squeeze the Vit. E oil into the bird's mouth. It might help to have someone hold the bird, while you open the bird's beak and give the vitamin to her. I did this once a day for about 3 or 4 days, then just put the vitamin oil on her feed every day for a week.

I've heard that doses as high as 1000 IUs can be used. But I'm not sure about using Vit. E to help with egg laying. Good luck!

Jessica

MY ANSWER
since wheat germ oil is Vitamin E you could and can use it this way Take a gallon of wheat and add 1/4 cup of the wheat germ oil and stir it in good. Now put what amounts of 1/4 cup per bird in feed troughs. if making for one bird use this amount 1/4 cup of wheat and 2 tbsp of wheat germ oil.This can be used thru out the laying period and start as early as January.

Or you can also use Cod Liver oil for vitamin A & D (this is for good strong eggs for hatching) using the same formula 1/4 cup cod liver oil mixed on 1 gallon of wheat. When mixing this method if you want to feed the mixtures at the same time, YOU HAVE to let the oils set mixed on the grain over night so that the oils dry on the grains. From January till you are done hatching eggs. Hens need the vitamins as do males
Male birds need fertility and hens need hatchability.

Never mix Wheat germ oil and cod liver oil when wet they undo each others effectiveness. Also I always gave my birds a 400 mg of Vit e by putting the pill down the throat and holding the beak and stroking the throat to get the bird to swallow the pill. You can take the bird and dip its beak in the water so that it swallows. These oils are very good. Also can use flax oil, and safflower oil.
Glenda L. Heywood
frizzlebird5@yahoo.com
http://www.gkpet.com


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BOTULISM AND MAGGOTS -- GLENDA l HEYWOOD (FACTS), 15:42:57 03/29/09 Sun [1]

Maggots and Chickens & Waterfowl
Glenda L Heywood

I was asked this: Is it harmful for my Chickens and waterfowl to eat all the maggots they want?

Maggots are not the number one cause of botulism, but botulism affects a broad number of species, WILD ducks and waterfowl are the biggest sufferers of botulism. The get it at times of low water conditions when the E Coli type botulism that thrives in the bottom mud of water bodies is exposed and they eat the invertebrates living in it.

If the maggots hatched on manure piles have enough botulism in them to effect your chickens, the botulism is the least of your problems, you have a serious management problem.

The maggots also that effect your birds are the kind that are laid by blow flies that invade their rectum, then the maggots will be eating them alive.

The bird having any kind of opening like a scratch or the like, then the blow flies invade and lay their eggs and thus maggots are what develops there.

Flies are the vector for maggots, if one of your chickens has a cut or place where it can have fly eggs laid then the maggots come next.

The use of honey poured in the wound will make the maggots back out and kill them. It will heal the sores and help the bird.

You can remove them but make sure they have not invaded the chickens body. If this has happened then you will have to cull the chicken.

This is blowfly maggots. Blowfly maggots only affect poultry that have open wounds, especially in hot weather.

The letting any kind of fowl eat dead meat with maggot in it may cause the birds to get a large amount of maggots in the gut and then can't get them expelled and a poison from the maggots may develop in the bird and cause it to die.

Keep all dead birds cleaned up to avoid flys that lay maggot eggs and other diseases.

Good management of manure piles such as putting Hydrated or slake lime on the manure piles is a good way to manage your fly problems.(becare ful with slaked hydrasted lime, so it doesn't blow back in your eyes)Hydrated lime will Kill the organisms. Thus the lack of odor and the lime will do away with flies that lay eggs.

Keeping the chickens and waterfowl healthy will control the maggot problems.

So keep the poultry buildings clean and manure piles limed during the year but especially in hot weather.

If your birds injest too many maggot you can use 1 cup water and 2 tbsp of turpintine, giving by syringe with out a needle a couple of syringes full twice a day for two days. Botulism is an awful death for a chicken, or waterfowl generally denoted by the twising neck and lack of stamia also lack of coordination.

Also use of epsom salts in water for two days is another remedy for botulism. 1 cup epsom salts to 4 gallon of water. Do this for three days as only water source.

http://www.gkpet.com
click on pet forum
frizzlebird5@yahoo.com


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Botulism do this -- Glenda L Heywood (trying to help), 15:34:15 03/29/09 Sun [1]

DCT said thisOne very likely cause of this is botulism. The toxin can
be picked up by eating an infected maggot or perhaps in
old feed that got wet. This is the very same toxin (Bo Tox)
that is now used to remove wrinkles from people's faces.
For the people the bad news is that it will wear off in
time. For the young poultry this IS GOOD NEWS that it can
wear off if the bird is given special care which may include
hand feeding if it is not able to reach the food. This
chick needs to be kept separate from the others to avoid
being trampled or picked on. It should be kept on soft

Glenda said this
Doing what DCT says is correct I would add

Immediately when you suspect botulism give the bird
1 cup water 3 tbsp of epsom salts
take a eye dropper and after mixing the formula
and desolving the epsom salts good
take the eye dropper and fill it several times and express it into the chicks throat

Always put the eye dropper to the back of the chicks or chickens throat and will not fail to go down the throat

Do this for three days water and epsom salts use as main water also, this will clean the system out and the bird will or should regain their ability to walk okay.
see if the chick will only eat slice of wheat bread soaked in milk
if the milk is sour it will work fine as it gives gut flora the chick needs from being sick

Also give this food only till chick or chicken is able to be up and around
I will put an article up on this botulisn from maggots.

Glenda L Heywood
http://www,gkpet.com
click on pet forum


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DCT this is Glenda -- Glenda L Heywood (sincere), 15:02:38 03/29/09 Sun [2]

DCT
this looks to be a good site
I was wondering if we could get all the different problems on seperate posts
Have you tried this?
I will post it on my web site to promote your answers
If each different problem was
posted on post a new message
as new question as you have it up here will that work?
Or does your web site only go in one line?
Thanks and you can emailme
Glenda L Heywood
http://www.gkpet.com
click on pet forum


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Replies:

[> Re: DCT this is Glenda -- Glenda L Heywood (answering my own question), 15:09:42 03/29/09 Sun [1]

Well I see it does not have a place that lists each topic
so I will have to go and read them one by one
thanks
Glenda L Heywood
http://www.gkpet.com
click on pet forum


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TENDON STORY WITH HAPPY ENDING -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:38:22 03/28/09 Sat [1]

It was in mid October of 2008 that a hen named Blood Red
suddenly abandoned her nest of eggs. I had to hastily start
up an incubator and warm those eggs in warm water. At the
end of the month seven chicks hatched. But one chick had
displaced the right Achilles tendon while kicking out of the
eggshell. I tried many times pushing the tendon back to the
center of the hock joint but it kept popping back out.
So I hastily constructed a "chick chair" from trash. The
main element was the carton that contained a light bulb with
some tissue paper. That chick spent just one night in that
chair and was completely cured. His problem had been found
before he could struggle and hurt himself. Now he is a
very colorful cockerel named Carnival with NO evidence of
his shaky beginning.
But Blood Red died and today I dug her grave in the rain.
It was probably illness that caused her to abandon her eggs
or possibly the shortening days of October. Three of her
chicks are pullets of very bright color. Spring is here in
Georgia and life goes on.


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Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- Jackie, 13:28:29 11/28/08 Fri [12]

My silkie hen lost the use of her leg last week, she was the bottom of the pecking order and sometimes when running away from other chickens she ran into things.

She has been to the vet, ruled out breaks, dislocation and marek's. We noticed her eye on the same side as paralysed leg is permanently closed.

She has had steroid injection, and has reasonable appetite, though not able to get to her food. She shuffles around flapping both wings and turns herself around but not much more. She is quite bright in herself, was 'purring' when she was sat on my knee earler.

I have made her a sling, but wonder if it is worth perservering with her - it's now been a week.

Thanks
Jackie


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Replies:

[> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:55:18 11/28/08 Fri [1]

Well, if this is not Marek's--the only other thing that I
can think of is botulism and the fact that this will often
strike the weakest bird while others in group do NOT suffer
a bit. This happened to Twister, a female peachick that was
left here in June of 1990. She was in bad shape from
hatching problems but I moved Heaven and Earth to get her
up and started in life. When she was about three months old
and able to live with others of her kind the botulism
got into her neck muscles which were her weakest part and
she had two very bad months of having to be hand fed.
She did recover to live to age eight.
Botulism can have different symptoms on different
individuals such as the leg problem of your silkie.
She may have hurt her eye while struggling with leg problem
or got something in it...or the others may have pecked the
eye.
The steroid was a good thing--helps heal inflamed nerve.
I like to keep some predisone tablets in my poultry
first aid supplies for this. A poultry lab doctor told me
to also give vitamin B complex, vitamin E and vitamin C.
A body sling or a chicken chair does relieve pressure and
prevent injury. Either of these has two leg holes and a hole
for manure to fall through. The feet should be able to
touch the floor.
As for whether it is worth keeping her alive--as long as
she is in good spirits then SHE thinks so. Often when I have
a sick bird if it wants to die it just does so on its own
saving me from the unpleasant task of of providing sudden
death. I can not make any guarantee but your hen may
recover.
Please post the rest of the story here. If you have any
more questions just ask.


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[> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- Jackie, 03:41:44 11/29/08 Sat [1]

Where so I get vitamin supplements for poultry - are they specific to poultry?


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[> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:49:43 11/29/08 Sat [1]

While poultry vitamin/mineral supplements do exist I would
use the same tablets or capsules for human use.
To get a pill swallowed by poultry there are two ways that I
use. The most effetive is to dip the pill into water and
then quicky (before it begins to disintigrate) push it into
the beak and back behind the tongue before the bird can
spit it out. Then watch the neck to see the progress of it
going down. It is interesting how you can see the bump on
the skin travel downward.
The other way to get a bird to swallow a pill is to wrap it
in a piece of bread if bread is familiar to the patient
and he/she is hungry enough to grab it. This is a more
gentle way to do it but it does not always work. The bird
may not be hungry or the pill may fall out.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- Jackie, 11:56:47 11/30/08 Sun [1]

Found that my healthy hair and skin vitamin supplement contained A,B1,B2,B6, B12,C, D,E and selenium (plus a few others) so decided to try her with that. Was worried about dosage so didn't give her a whole tablet, crushed it and discarded the coating. Dipped her grapes in the powder and got some down her that way! She's a lot brighter, feisty and trying to stand, it seems her problem is finding her balance with only one working leg. She's started trying to preen herself a little and uses her wings to support herself.

She now feeds herself from the food bowl as long as she can get to it. She went mad for the corn I gave her last night. Water I am still giving her a little by syringe as she is not choosing to drink (maybe grapes and yogurt provide sufficient liquid).

Sorted her sling today so we can help her to support her weight without falling over, and trying to manually manipulate her bad leg to encourage use of it.

Jackie


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:54:58 11/30/08 Sun [1]

I am glad that you and your silkie are making good progress.
A nerve damaged by botulism can take a while to recover.
You have heard about the Bo Tox that is injected into a
human's facial wrinkles?...the toxin paralyses the muscles
in the skin that cause the wrinkles. For the person doing
this it is bad news that this is not permanent but for your
silkie this is good news...that there is hope for the
nerve to recover.
Some gentle massage to help keep the muscle tone is good.
Be careful that she does not damage the leg joints while
struggling to walk


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- Jackie, 13:56:44 12/04/08 Thu [1]

Things not so good - she's now lost use of her other leg, so can only be hand fed. She flaps and tries to use her wings to move around, it's very sad and we're losing hope for her.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:28:09 12/04/08 Thu [1]

The two months that I cared for Twister seemed like a
million years but that year I did get what I wanted for
Christmas--to see Twister recover.
If your hen is struggling do not let her bend her leg joints
backwards because this can do permanent damage.
She needs to be in a body sling in a warm place. Warmth is
very important to a sick bird.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- Jackie, 15:30:30 12/18/08 Thu [1]

It's been five weeks since our silkie came into the house with one bad leg and then both paralysed. Every morning we bathe her as she is unable to move away from her soiled bedding during the night. She then spends the day in her sling, I make sure her legs and feet are correctly underneath her. She is very accepting and seems as comfortable as she can be with no use of her legs. However her appetite is diminishing - today ( a good day) she had 2 spoons of baked beans, 2 pasta twists, 2 grapes, a dozen sunflower seeds and a tiny piece of banana. I'm sure not all of that is the best nutrition, but if she'll eat I'll let her have it. She has in the last few days started to drink water out of a bowl again rather than by syringe.

Theoretically this can continue indefinitely - but my biggest worry is how thin she is, her breast bone is so pronounced and without legs, she is resting all of her (not great) weight on this bone and I'm concerned the area of skin thinly covering this bone is going to become damaged and then inflamed. Not sure how to give her support without putting all the weight on the boney part of her. Unfortunately I didn't weigh her when she first came in so I cannot say how much she has lost, but she is very skinny now. Her poo is mostly liquid, but still browny, not green or water.

Any advice on maintaining the support she needs and keeping her comfortable.
Thanks


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 20:45:45 12/18/08 Thu [1]

Yes, you do want to keep the weight off of the keel bone.
To do this I will explain how pressure is kept off of a
horse's spine. A saddle has two sides (padded) separated
by space in between so that the weight is kept off the
vertabrae. I take this idea and invert it. The weight of a
sick bird should rest on two pieces of sponge with a
"V" shaped groove between them to keep weight off of the
keel (breast bone)
----
Most chickens love to eat ground beef either raw or cooked.
Long ago I had a severely crippled peacock named Murphy
who really liked coleslaw. Even longer ago I had a silkie
cockerel that was down with an infection in his tail.
He loved salad that was made with imitation crab meat


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Silkie paralysed after suspected stroke -- fuisha (sad), 04:10:12 03/01/09 Sun [1]

How is your bird I feel I an going through the same thing for 2 dAYS now


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> TO: fuisha -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:25:24 03/01/09 Sun [1]

That silkie's problem began about three months ago and there
have been NO recent messages about her so I sadly fear
that there is no good news.
But your pet is newly ill and perhaps if you follow the
advice in my posts there could be a happy ending or at
least you can know that you did your best


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Slipped Tendon/Swollen Hock -- Lambing Family, 12:13:00 02/26/09 Thu [2]

Sunday we came home from church and noticed it was favoring the one leg. The chick is about 7 days old now. I read on line real quick about what it could be. The joint was already swollen so I could not feel the tendon. I tried to put a splint on it and I also did the bandaid treatment. It has been isolated so it doesn't have to compete for food and water. This morning I tried to make a chick chair. Should I put a splent on it to keep it straight? Is it to late? I can stretch it out. Other than the leg, the chick acts fine. Any advise please! We are new chick owners and this little fuzzy butt is from our first batch of eggs. I am not sure how often I should feed and water it. This has to be done by hand since it is in a chair. Also we are giving it the baby liquid vitamins. Has anyone been successful with a situation like this?


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Replies:

[> Re: Slipped Tendon/Swollen Hock -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:19:14 02/26/09 Thu [1]

this problem is harder to treat than other orthopedic
problems but there have been some successes as well as
failures. Sometimes when I find a newly hatched chick with
the Achilles tendon out of the groove I can push it back
and have an instant cure.
But if there is swelling of the joint or abrasion of the
skin it is time to get out the "chick chair" and say a
prayer.
For the first few days of a chick's life it uses the
nutrients stored in the egg yolk. A wild chicken's babies
can hide under their mother during this time. Then the
family has to leave the nest and find food. Domesticated
chicks are often raised without a mother and are kept
warm in a brooder. They are fed medicated chick starter.
They also like some chopped hard boiled egg and green
groceries such as romaine lettuce, collards, and brocalli.
Tape and splints are NOT useful in treatment of tendon
problems.
A body sling can be made of an old sock or a "chair" can
be made using a painter's dust mask stapled to a kleenex
box....anything to keep the weight off the hurt leg.


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4 day old chick with dislocated leg -- Lowenna (:~(), 13:21:42 02/24/09 Tue [3]

I have a 4 day old bantam chick, from the first day we noticed it wasnt walking ok. We kept an eye on it and saw it was just one of its legs, it had a mark on its leg and wasnt walking on it on lying on it. We took it to the vets and he said the leg was dislocated. It may have to be put down, as it is too young for surgery. any ideas on how we can help this ckick, as we love him. We have islotaed him and kept him walm and dry. please help!!!


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Replies:

[> Re: 4 day old chick with dislocated leg -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:37:21 02/24/09 Tue [1]

This is most likely a displaced Achilles tendon. This can
happen as a chick pushes its body out of the eggshell or
if it is stepped on by a mother hen.This tendon crosses the
rear of the hock joint (the joint where the chick fuzz ends
and the scale covered shinbone begins)
Try looking at this chick from the rear and compare the
shape of the hock joints. See if the tendon of the bad leg
bulges off center. Then try to very gently squeeze the
tendon to the center. Sometimes this is all that it takes
to repair the joint but often the tendon will not stay in
place due to swelling of the joint. In this case the
chick must rest in a "chick chair" while the swelling
goes down.
For more information please read my article at the UPA
website
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
If you have more questions you can post them here or e-mail
townsend@pineland.net
putting "POULTRY" in the subject line to avoid being lost
in the spam


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[> [> Re: 4 day old chick with dislocated leg -- Lambingfamily, 11:35:20 02/26/09 Thu [1]

We have a very similar sitiuation. Sunday we came home from church and noticed it was favoring the one leg. I read on line real quick about what it could be. The joint was already swollen so I could not feel the tendon. I tried to put a splint on it and I also did the bandaid treatment. It has been isolated so it doesn't have to compete for food and water. This morning I tried to make a chick chair. Should I put a splent on it to keep it straight? Is it to late? I can stretch it out. Other than the leg, the chick acts fine. Any advise please! We are new chick owners and this little fuzzy butt is from our first batch of eggs.


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Chicken leg broken? -- Shelly Smith, 23:54:39 01/09/09 Fri [5]

The kids noticed one of the three week old Leghorn chicks had a problem with one of her legs. Hoping for the best, I isolated her to see if she would heal on her own. Now her leg is sticking straight out (not bending) from her body almost straight back. She doesn't seem to have control of her damaged leg; however, it looks in reasonable shape and it does quiver when I hold her. She doesn't seem to be in pain, not chipping in distress. This my first time with chickens (heck with animals in general) so I'm not sure how to diagnose the problem (or how to fix it). Reading several posts here, I'm wondering if her leg is actually not broken but dislocated at the hip?


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Replies:

[> Re: Chicken leg broken? -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:42:52 01/10/09 Sat [1]

One very likely cause of this is botulism. The toxin can
be picked up by eating an infected maggot or perhaps in
old feed that got wet. This is the very same toxin (Bo Tox)
that is now used to remove wrinkles from people's faces.
For the people the bad news is that it will wear off in
time. For the young poultry this IS GOOD NEWS that it can
wear off if the bird is given special care which may include
hand feeding if it is not able to reach the food. This
chick needs to be kept separate from the others to avoid
being trampled or picked on. It should be kept on soft
padding in a warm place.


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[> [> Re: Chicken leg broken? -- Shelly Smith, 00:30:58 01/12/09 Mon [1]

Thank you so much! I thought the leg had broken and healed wrong (causing the leg to stick out behind it) and was dreading the thought of breaking the leg and splitting it. She is by herself in a box with food and water. Seems to be doing ok - she's developing just not as fast as the rest of her batch-mates.


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[> [> [> Re: Chicken leg broken? -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:19:11 01/12/09 Mon [1]

I NEVER have tried breaking a leg as part of the healing
process. My method involves being as gentle as possible.
A chick like yours could benefit from a body sling or
"chick chair" to improve circulation and avoid bending the
joints the wrong way. If you send me an e-mail I can
reply with a photo of a chick chair.
townsend@pineland.net


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[> [> [> [> Re: Chicken leg broken? -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 21:19:20 01/22/09 Thu [1]

Shelly,
I did send you an e-mail with photo of chick chair in it.
If you did not get the picture you may find it in the
Poultry Health Articles at Shagbark Bantams
www.shagbarkbantams.com/faqleg.htm


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tippy toed 1 week old chck -- jenni2142, 20:21:03 10/03/08 Fri [6]

last friday i hatched a sebright chick that had slipped tendons, this was discovered sat. i splinted with wood for support for the past week and now the supports are a cut up rubber pencil grip to allow some movement and still give support. she can't stand or walk on her own. she extends all the way and stands on her tip toes when i hold her up. she eats and drinks fine and is growing just not quite as much as her siblings. i have seen the pic of the chick chair but there is not enough detail for me to make one. are there more detailed pics? so far she has crawled out of every attempt i have made at a sling or chair. is there anything else i should do for her? thanks.


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Replies:

[> Re: tippy toed 1 week old chck -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 22:08:05 10/03/08 Fri [1]

There are no more chair photos. Chair seat can be made of
a dust mask with two leg holes and a hole for manure to
fall through and this can be attached to the kleenex box
chair frame with staples. Once you put a chick into the
chair you must wrap something around it to keep it from
jumping out.
Normally a chick with displaced Achilles tendon is not able
to straighten out its leg so I wonder if your chick might
have some other problem.
I know that a sebright is a very tiny chick making it
extra hard to treat. If the tendon is not put back in
place in the first day or two the chance of ever repairing
it are poor.


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[> [> Re: tippy toed 1 week old chck -- jenni2142, 08:34:02 10/04/08 Sat [1]

at first she could not straighten her legs at all, it is only now that she is hyper extended. i could see and feel the tendon turned to the insides of her legs. i can use my hands to hold her in a better position and she can stand but when i let go she pushes up again. she likes to crawl around using her wings like arms. she crawled out of both of my attempts at slings, the dust mask and the sock. i did find another photo of the chair and that helped, i will be working on it today. she is so tiny it is very hard finding things small enough. have you ever seen a chick hyper extended? is there another treatment for it? thanks.


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[> [> [> Re: tippy toed 1 week old chck -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 10:34:04 10/04/08 Sat [1]

If by the word "hyperextended" you mean a hock joint that
has been pushed too far or even bent the wrong way-I did
see that years ago when I had a chick that had botulism
that caused muscle spasms. There were two methods of
bringing leg back to normal position. First I tried
wrapping tape around in the figure eight method like one
would use when putting ace bandage on a human strained
ankle. And when that did NOT work I got a plastic half
gallon milk jug. I cut the handle from the plastic jug
then I cut the handle some more to make a small plastic
leg brace. The bent shape of this jug handle matches
the shape of a healthy chick hock joint so I taped it
on. This was a very long time ago but I remember that
this did prevent the muscle spasms from destroying the
hock joint and that after the chick stopped having those
spasms it was OK. For your tiny chick you will need to
make a very small brace but this just might do what
needs to be done.


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[> [> [> [> Re: tippy toed 1 week old chck -- jenni2142, 12:17:02 10/04/08 Sat [1]

yes, she holds the hock joint very straight now but also at the hip, when she lays on her tummy she will actually lift one of her legs up in the air behind her. i will try the bent support for the hock joint and i am hoping if i can get her pinned in the chick chair it will help the hip joint. it makes me feel better to know that a chick has actually come back from this. thanks for the help.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: tippy toed 1 week old chck -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 20:42:08 10/04/08 Sat [1]

You are welcome.
Please post an update as soon as there is any change.
This will help other users of this forum


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5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- Amy, 07:56:34 09/27/08 Sat [6]

I have a 5 day old chick that was shipped with 15 other chicks. The first day we noticed that she wasn't standing or walking. I have pics but not sure that they can be posted? We have a post on Backyard Chickens and so far, no results really. Our research has brought back a possible slipped tendon, straddle leg and lame leg. She can't be in the same area with the other chicks or they will peck at her endlessly. So we have her separated with her own feed and water but she can't really manage on her own. We have to hold her.

So here is the thing, she has one leg that is swollen and red. According to the place I ordered my chicks through, the swollen leg is REALLY swollen. They told us to touch the leg and see what the reaction is. We have touched both legs and not a peep. On her knees it looks like there is scabbing. Not sure whey this may have occured. She still looks like a 2 day old chick and all the others are much bigger! I am not sure what to do, please help!

Thank you!


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Replies:

[> Re: 5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 11:25:00 09/27/08 Sat [1]

Pictures will not post here but you can put them at a site
such as villagephotos or photo bucket and then post the
link to them here.
This is most likely a displaced Achilles tendon. This can
happen as the chick pushes off the eggshell or from being
stepped on. When treated as soon as it happens it is simple
to repair but after the chick has dragged the joint on the
floor there will be swelling and abrasion making it very
difficult to treat. The Achilles tendon connects the
muscles in the tibia (drumstick) to the tarsal bone.
This tendon normally slides in a groove accross the back of
the hock joint (at line between the feathered part of leg
and where the scale covered part begins)
If there is no swelling you can push this tendon back to
the center of the joint and suddenly the chick can stand on
the leg.
But if there is swelling in joint and damaged skin the
chick must be put in a "chick chair" or body sling to rest
the leg so that it can heal. There is a picture of a
"chick chair" at:
www.shagbarkbantams.com/faqleg.htm


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[> [> Re: 5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- Amy, 13:16:02 09/27/08 Sat [1]

Here is a link that you can try. It has 2 pics of my chick and her legs. The swollen leg has gone down a bit since that pic was taken. Please let me know what you think.
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=91610

Thanks, Amy


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[> [> [> Re: 5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 23:27:25 09/27/08 Sat [1]

The e-mail photo that you sent me took over an hour to
download!!!! and was the same as one at back yard chicken
site.
=======
What I said in my above post is the answer. The Achilles
tendon needs to be pushed to the center of the rear of the
joint by a gentle pressure between your thumb and finger.
An alternate method of centering the tendon is to pull the
leg out straight behind the chick being certain to hold
the chick's foot so that the back toe points straight to
the rear. You should be able to actually see the tendon
move to the center. If the tendon refuses to stay in place
the chick needs to rest in the "chick chair" or a body
sling


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[> [> [> [> Re: 5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- Amy, 11:05:40 09/28/08 Sun [1]

sorry about the download time. I only emailed the pics to you personally just in case you couldn't access the link, sorry! Both legs had slipped tendons and we put them both back but they kept slipping back out. We put her in a sling and splints with no success. She was uncomfortable and she peeped so loud and wouldn't stop. We thought we had everything on too tight but we didn't. Once off she stopped peeping and she started eating again! But this morning she was not doing so well. She wouldn't eat or drink even when held. We checked on her several times and the last time we checked she was sitting in her water (shot glass). We took her out and wrapped her up in a towel and at this time we noticed on one of her legs, her bone was protruding. At that time, we felt that it would be best to cull her. She was and had been in too much pain. We tried everything and nothing seemed to work. She is 6 days old and she still looks like a 3 day old chick. Several chicken owners have told me that she would always need to be separated because the other chickens would peck her. We just don't have the time or the resources to keep a special needs chick at this time.

We appreciate your advice but we felt that what we did was the best for the little chick.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: 5 day old chick can't stand or walk -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 12:13:40 09/29/08 Mon [1]

Amy,
I am sorry that your chick could not be saved.
A displaced Achilles tendon is much harder to treat than
most orthopedic problems. When treated as soon as it
happens there is some chance of success but each day that
the chick struggles and walks on the hock joint make the
problem worse as the tissues swell and the skin is lost
letting in infection making even more swelling so that the
tendon will NOT even fit into its natural groove
===========
Last year a bantam chick was brought to me a few days after
he had hatched with a displaced Achilles tendon on his
right leg. I had a chick hatched at my house with the very
same problem. My own chick was cured very soon but the
one that was brought here required over a week of treatment
to get the tendon seated. Then a complication arose--
His tibia (drumstick bone) twisted. This required a whole
month of experimental treatment before he could be an
ordinary chicken.....more trouble than it was worth except
for what I learned. But the chicken is still walking
around with normal legs. His spurs came out at odd angle
and have to be trimmed to prevent them from rubbing his
legs


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6 Week old Chick Can't stand -- JNJC (worried), 23:08:09 09/27/08 Sat [2]

Hi Folks,

Someone on a forum suggest I post here. We have three six week old chicks. Last week we noticed one of them was limping, very rapidly this got worse until she was unable to stand. The other two are fine. The three of them have been fed exclusively on the medicated chick feed since we've had them.

The sick one is eating and drinking fine and her poo looks the same as the others. I have been giving her a few drops of childrens vitamins for the last four days in the hope that would help. But she is not getting any better...

Here a a few pictures:

http://www.competitionblog.com.au/sickchicken/P1010001.jpg
http://www.competitionblog.com.au/sickchicken/P1010002.jpg
http://www.competitionblog.com.au/sickchicken/P1010003.jpg

Anybody got any ideas ?

Thanks,
JC


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Replies:

[> Re: 6 Week old Chick Can't stand -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 00:36:51 09/28/08 Sun [1]

By the time I got to the second photo I began thinking
"botulism" and the third photo confirmed this showing
evidence of muscle spasms pulling legs in strange
directions. Often this may progress to twist the neck but
not always. Years ago my Mother treated this by giving
epsom salts as a laxative to get the toxin out of the
digestive tract. Vitamin E was given to heal the chick.
I was told by a poultry lab doctor to use vitamin B-complex
and vitamin C also. Botulism is a toxin found in infected
maggots but I have had chicks that were NOT around any
maggots that suffered from it. Another treatment that was
suggested by the lab doctor was prednisone to relieve the
inflamation of the nerves.
Some victims of this will die in spite of good care but
I have known some to make full recovery after weeks of
being hand fed due to paralysis of neck muscles. I had a
female juvenile peafowl that did recover after three
months of pure misery from neck spasms.


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The baby chicken foot might be broken -- kaylet (worried), 23:21:13 09/13/08 Sat [2]

My son found a baby chicken at the beach we have had it now for about a six weeks. The chick got under a human foot and now the chick's foot is not working. Nugget (name of chick) will not put his foot on the ground and is now hopping when he wants to get around. The toes are not working and the area of the foot where all toes meet is totally bruised. There are no obvious broken bones just a lot of discoloring. Not sure what to do.


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Replies:

[> Re: The baby chicken foot might be broken -- D C T --friendly poultry orthopedist, 08:29:55 09/14/08 Sun [1]

I suggest making and taping on a "chick shoe" which can be
made of light weight wire or better yet for a chick the
age and size of yours--you can get a plastic milk jug and
cut a shoe from the plastic after using a marker to draw
the shape on the plastic. Most plastic jugs are easily cut
with ordinary scissors.
Find a picture of a "chick shoe" in my article at UPA
website:
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
If you chick seems to be in extreme pain it can be rested
in a "body sling". This can be made of cloth or better yet
a dust mask such as you would use when spray painting.
Cut two leg holes and a hole for manure to fall through,
put chick in sling and suspend it so that the feet can
touch the floor. If feet can not touch anything the bird
will be uncomfortable and struggle making itself even more
uncomfortable. It needs to rest. Keep food within easy reach
and offer water several times a day.


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