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Date Posted: Wed, Sep 19 2007, 22:48:56
Author: Me
Subject: So, let me get this straight... I feel like perhaps I've gone bonkers...
A convicted paedophile, who admits to his past, is deported for violating the child protection act. His conviction means he cannot work with children or be involved with them again, he ignored this advice, and so is deported. He then starts up a new organisation in the country he's currently living in, advertises on here for teachers (without telling people who they will be working for) - continues to run workshops, competitions and adult classes. But this is all ok apparently, because WIDA 'is not just Sean Gavan', it's a whole organisation and the convicted paedophile is not allowed to be left alone with children. And Irish Daz is happy to advertise the organisation, because Sean has been very up front with him about his past (lucky Daz). Irish Daz also feels that the organisation contains a great deal of innocent teachers and children, who should not be punished for their leader's crimes.
What a joke.
If our prime minister was a convicted paedophile, his MPs might well be innocent, but they would replace their leader. If a head teacher, or a school governor, was a convicted paedophile - the school would continue with a change of leadership. This organisation should continue with a change in president.
Irish daz says (and I quote): 'maybe he does have something to offer the world of irish dance'. This has not been thought out carefully enough. It's not just about whether he's alone with children, or whether he's president or active teacher in the organisation, it's about the statement you are making. He's present at competitions and workshops where children are performing - how would you feel about his thoughts towards those children - or indeed what he does with the photos after the event. I certainly would not want a photo of my daughter up on his wall at home - would you? Paedophilia is a sexual preference - it's not a mistake, or a one off - a paedophile sees children in the same way we might eye up Brad Pitt or Kelly Brook. By supporting the organisation, you are allowing him access to a whole load of child pin ups - on a regular basis. It's not always the actions parents need to be worried about.
You say that his former class were very supportive of him, raised a whole load of money to fund his defence. Just because he is a paedophile, doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to build relationships with people. They might well have supported him - but that's more than likely because they didn't believe the conviction.
The tone of your posts on here suggest that you feel that the man is sorry for what he's done so we should give him a second chance. I agree, the organisation should not be punished, but until they insist on a change in leadership - they are opening their children up to danger. You might argue there is danger everywhere. Very true. But we must do our utmost to avoid it - if a man walked into a feis with 'paedophile' written on his t-shirt, he would be asked to leave, would he not? Like I said before, the risk here is what is being promoted by continuing to allow this man to run an organisation.
parents and teachers who have said they are ok with it are misguided. Have you wondered what's crossing his mind when he sits and watches your son/daughter dance at a feis?
We can't always spot a paedophile, but where it is obvious, they should not be encouraged or allowed to be involved in an organisation which is based around children. It's illegal.
If you are supporting this organisation, please make a stand and rally for a new leader. You would not be able to live with yourself if this person reoffended.
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Well said . -- ,,, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 8:47:36 [1]
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Very well said. I wonder what on earth is so important for teachers that they join this particular org although there is plethora of other respectable orgs to choose from? -- why support him?, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 10:45:07 [1]
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Situation in Germany -- German, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 12:03:11 [1]
The situation in Germany (and Mainland Europe) is, that there are only few AnCom Schools and teachers. WIDA does not only have much more schools and teachers throughout Europe, but also offers a rather easy way to become TRCG for Germans who have not grown up with ID. The quality of WIDA schools and teachers is discussed controversly, though it seems that the average standard of dancing at WIDA schools has improved over time. There has been a long discussion on dance.net about the quality of dancing as seen in a video clip of German WIDA champions.
Personally I don't like the approach of WIDA, to me it seems that it's more about quantity instead of quality, but I might be wrong. I wonder how Sean got permission to settle down in Europe and not only found a school, but a whole dance organisation, If anyone wants to hire him as a private teacher, why not, it's their own risk.
But him being head of a whole organisation (which he has founded, and probably this is why you can't just replace him as some have suggested), something seems completely wrong there.
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But the org is only a couple of years old, isn't it? And CLRG is longer in Germany? So there were even less WIDA teachers than CLRG teachers in Germany(Europe) back then? So it couldn't have been that they decided to join a larger org. Does it mean that to obtain an easier certification all those teachers accepted being governed by him with his past? I have no words for it... It's like selling the safety of their students for a second rate diploma! -- omg, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 14:17:48 [1]
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history of WIDA -- German, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 15:57:12 [1]
I know that at the time when WIDA was founded, there was only one AnCom TRCG in Germany, and maybe 2 conditional teachers who meanwhile have passed their TCRG exam, with alltogether around 5 locations where you could take regular classes or Workshops. (that was when my daughter was into ID and where my knowledge comes from).
As far as I understood, Sean offered a platform for the numberous dance teachers, who already taught ID classes throughout Germany (mostly inspired by LotD/Riverdance) Those classses were non-competitive and often a branch of larger dance schools (along with aerobics, tap dance, ballett...). Most of those teachers never got proper ID formation (Rather CDs and some workshops...). WIDA offered them a platform with feis, workshops and TRCG exams, I don't know what AnCom offered at the time, and I am not sure how open they were to train German ID teachers who only had begun their ID-life as adults
This from the WIDA website:
"A prior knowledge or experience of Irish Dance is not necessary to become a certified W.I.D.A. dance teacher or adjudicator as few people on the European mainland grew up having the opportunity to know about Irelands national dance style."
An examination programme and schedule has been developed to encourage those with an interest in Irish Dance to become certified teachers and adjudicators with W.I.D.A. Candidates will be able to go at their own pace and develop their knowledge and skill without the pressure of deadlines and will be able to be fully certified when they are ready to complete the examination process."
Have a look at the websites (Europeirishdance.com for AnCom and worldirishdance.com for WIDA) and you'll see the difference concerning the numbers of schools and feis in Germany- and you'll see that the most of the WIDA teachers have German names, whereas the AnCom teachers are English/Irish born (=have been dancing and competing since childhood).
I think Sean had an easy game to built up his new organisation without people asking too many questions. I saw an interview he gave (in German, so I won't quote), where he did not even mention that he was a teacher in the US, he only told about previously teaching in Scotland .
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Thanks for posting all of this! He did have it very easy over there - a TC from California arranged for him to move there and start teaching near K-Town. -- Please keep an eye on him, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 21:30:02 [1]
Since his TCRG was revoked he started WIDA. He was a good teacher, and I'm sure he still is; he is just low on ethics and probably found it very easy to gather together all of the dancers and non-cert teachers into one organization - everybody wants to belong to something, or wants more than they have, and he very smoothly provided it. There are good and bad teachers here, but for every one of them the process of learning and testing for their TCRG takes many years and lots of knowlege - and that is something that he could not have provided to the WIDA teachers. Establishing WIDA was a means to a livelihood (since he lost everything in the court battle here) and a way to thumb his nose at the governing body that he used to belong to. It is good for him that he is an entrepeneur, but bad for your male children and for anyone who might think that he won't do this again. If sex with underage boys is not as abhorrent in Europe as it is in the US, then he has found a good home for himself and it will be up to every parent to watch him. He is not the kind and wonderful man that he seems to be.
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Because many European Countires don't have Paedophile Registers. Not sure about Germany, but places like Portugal, Greece etc don't! And for the OP's information, Sean Gavan never did admit to his 'crime' he always strenuously denied it and many parents from his school stood by him. I think what Darren should have said is that Sean Gavan told him about his conviction, not that he admitted to actually doing it! Why would he? He doesn't know Darren!!! As for Michael Jackson, in my view he was only found NOT Guilty because of who he is...the case was very similar to Sean Gavan's and it's amazing what money and fame can do for you. While I have been a Jackson Family fan since they hit the big time, I would not buy any of Michael's music now nor advocate my children doing so...NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE, in both cases. IMVHO -- Not a Witch Hunter General, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 20:24:49 [1]
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you are right. he never attempted to cover up his conviction but we have not discussed his guilt or otherwise -- Irishdaz, Fri, Sep 21 2007, 19:45:59 [1]
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Why bother? He is a very good teacher and is a slippery as the day is long. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a story that is totally unlike what the transcripts would tell you. -- disgusted, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 21:08:38 [1]
If you do ask him, be sure to ask when the last time he went to Scotland was. I'm sorry for your past troubles and can see why this organization holds attraction for you and your daughter. She is safe. He only likes boys. If you find no problem in acting like an ostrich and defending an organization that was started by a felon, then you live with your conscience - but don't try to defend him or your own choices, because there is no defence. PS: What if he liked teenage girls? Would you see a problem then?
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He did admit his actions, on a conversation that was recorded legally by the police. Of course he changed his story twice in court, but that tape recording was helpful in his conviction. -- not a supporter, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 21:02:10 [1]
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But surely Germany and the Netherlands have similar laws regarding paedophiles working with children. Can this not be reported to the police? -- original poster, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 19:27:44 [1]
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We are trying but its not as easy as you think, We have informed them of the website but if anyone has further information please pass on to your local police, I dont know if convictions of this type carry onto other countries, I would like to think they do but don't know enough about the law -- parent, Thu, Sep 20 2007, 20:18:22 [1]
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You are not just talking about different states here but different countries and whilst the EU has made things a bit easier, it is still so easy for people to skip the country and start up again on the other side of the border. Most of the UK's peodaphiles move to the Irish Republic as there is no register there at all. -- There was a program about it on the BBC not long ago, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 15:47:26 [1]
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interestingly Sean Gavan doesn't appear to be listed on the Justice drept sex offenders register website - http://www.nsopr.gov/ - so his conviction may not even shoew up on a search in other countries -- just checked, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 16:29:41 [1]
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I wonder how many of the WIDA teachers know about his past? -- wondering, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 16:33:32 [1]
And if they knew, whether they would do anything. Since he founded the organisation, it might not be easy to "remove him". They could quit WIDA, but where should they go?
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crdm are affiliated to wida i wonder if they know, they have a lot about child protection on their web site. -- maybe they do!, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 17:39:58 [1]
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Yes they do know. I have had this discussion with them in the past and they were definite that they did so. Doesn't seem to be an issue to them, presumably they make sure that their dancers are careful -- around him, Sun, Sep 23 2007, 17:46:04 [1]
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