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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 16:55:39 04/28/03 Mon
You'll never get UMass and URI to leave the A-10, the A-10 will disintegrate around them if they don't watch it, however. Unless you're reading different Worcester papers than I am, I don't think HC is going anywhere any time soon. They love the Patriot League, and it fits all of their needs incredibly well. They gain absolutely nothing from joining the AE.
Hofstra CAN'T go anywhere, and I don't think they will go anywhere, especially if NU joins the CAA. That $1 million buyout wasn't put there as an afterthought, it was known they'd be unhappy, and was put in there to keep them and their football team with the CAA.
I'll give you Buffalo, that's probably a decent bet to leave the MAC. The MAC isn't thrilled with them and I think the AE would be a better fit.
I don't think Lowell is going anywhere with all of the budgetary problems going on with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. They dropped football under the direction of Governor Romney, who is trying to streamline the UMass system.
I can't see them playing games in Tsongas Arena on a regular basis for basketball, and while their on campus building isn't bad, I don't think it's D-1 level (nor is Cabot Gym for that matter).
The reason why their hoop team is so good is that the former coach there recruited a ton of 25 year old Israelis to play at Lowell. He left, was replaced by another guy with Israeli ties, and the NCAA Closed the loophole on age requirements for International Players. Under the new rules, these kids wouldn't have any NCAA eligibility left. Their baseball team is good and would probably be in the top half of the AE, but other than those sports, and sports where they get a bunch of international kids who are in their 20s, I don't know how good of a fit they are.
Lowell has a good academic program, but I'm not sure it's what the AE is looking for.
Quinnipiac would be in before Lowell, I'd think, and Sacred Heart??? please...
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Re: Future AE membership? -- mainejeff, 17:49:23 04/28/03 Mon
Thanks for your thoughts, but as I said.....the teams listed are a WISH LIST.....not who I think will be added in the future. If Hofstra is so unhappy with the CAA then I don't see how Northeastern would be happy either. But I'm sure that the new AD has "big' dreams of joining a powerhouse conference like the CAA, and challenging Boston College for collegiate athletic supremacy (yeah right).
I think NU's 1 good football season in 100 years has gone to their heads.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 20:45:16 04/28/03 Mon
Bentley has a committee and the Board of Trustees tabled a vote on moving to D-1 in 2002. The people I know there told me that they weren't going to move unless they knew a conference would accept them.... wake up and smell the coffee.
No way in hell would NU and BU allow Bentley in the back door to Boston and the AE.
As the one of people at Bentley I know told me, "they want to be D-1 without any concept of what it would cost to go D-1." Their Women's Hoop Team would probably be near the top of the AE right away, and their women's field hockey team would also be highly competitive, as it won the D-2 title a couple of years ago.
I can't think of anything else they'd be competitive in right away.
Mercyhurst and Gannon are both in Erie, PA and have toyed with the idea of a D-1 shot, but as Fogel told me when he got fired, "they want to be Harvard during the week and UNLV on the weekends" and won't sacrifice any admissions standards for athletes.
One thing to remember about Quinnipiac, they had something that a lot of schools don't have.. money.... For a small school, they had cash and access to cash (how, I have no idea).
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Re: Future AE membership? -- animal, 18:16:08 04/28/03 Mon
>You'll never get UMass and URI to leave the A-10, the
>A-10 will disintegrate around them if they don't watch
>it, however. Unless you're reading different
>Worcester papers than I am, I don't think HC is going
>anywhere any time soon. They love the Patriot League,
>and it fits all of their needs incredibly well. They
>gain absolutely nothing from joining the AE.
>
>Hofstra CAN'T go anywhere, and I don't think they will
>go anywhere, especially if NU joins the CAA. That $1
>million buyout wasn't put there as an afterthought, it
>was known they'd be unhappy, and was put in there to
>keep them and their football team with the CAA.
>
>I'll give you Buffalo, that's probably a decent bet to
>leave the MAC. The MAC isn't thrilled with them and I
>think the AE would be a better fit.
>
>I don't think Lowell is going anywhere with all of the
>budgetary problems going on with the Commonwealth of
>Massachusetts. They dropped football under the
>direction of Governor Romney, who is trying to
>streamline the UMass system.
>
>I can't see them playing games in Tsongas Arena on a
>regular basis for basketball, and while their on
>campus building isn't bad, I don't think it's D-1
>level (nor is Cabot Gym for that matter).
>
>The reason why their hoop team is so good is that the
>former coach there recruited a ton of 25 year old
>Israelis to play at Lowell. He left, was replaced by
>another guy with Israeli ties, and the NCAA Closed the
>loophole on age requirements for International
>Players. Under the new rules, these kids wouldn't
>have any NCAA eligibility left. Their baseball team
>is good and would probably be in the top half of the
>AE, but other than those sports, and sports where they
>get a bunch of international kids who are in their
>20s, I don't know how good of a fit they are.
>
>Lowell has a good academic program, but I'm not sure
>it's what the AE is looking for.
>
>Quinnipiac would be in before Lowell, I'd think, and
>Sacred Heart??? please...
NU Hoop Fan, remember Eyal Leib at all? That guy was like 35 when he graduated.
It seems like Lowell was rumored to go DI in 1999 (at the same time as Binghamton) but it never happened. Personally, other than their basketball gym (which looks like a floor was layed over a pool for those that have never been there), it seems like a good fit. Another local rival for the Boston schools and UNH.
I think they would almost be a lock for AE membership if they made the move. They do have an "in" in the conference office...
While we're on the subject, anyone heard about any other DII schools in NE looking to make the move? Seems like there are several NE-10 schools that are no worse than AE schools. Remember, Quinnipiac was a pretty sorry DII hoops program when they jumped, so if they could do it, there are a lot of schools that could.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 08:38:08 04/29/03 Tue
Obliviously no school in the A-10 would leave for the AE (unless the Bonnies are ever forced out). If Miami or VT (or anyone else) left the Big East, I don't know of an A-10 program that could fill its shoes (w/ football), so I don't see any trickle down effect either by having an AE team jump to the A-10. The CAA and Patriot teams have no real reason to move either they are generally a stronger conference. Buffalo is not a great fit in the MAC, but with I-A football program, they might have the only chance at a possible Big East spot. Lots of discussion about DII schools looking to jump to DI, but wouldn't an established program increase the quality of the league rather than an UMASS-Lowell?
UMass, URI, HC, and Hoftsra have no reason to leave their current conference and join the AE. Central and Sacred Heart are the only schools from “the list” that can bring a comparable football program to the league and CCSU has a much stronger athletic program than SHU. Quinn does have tons of cash, but I think they want to compete academically with smaller private institutions like Loyola in the MAAC, so they aren't a good fit at all.
Clearly I’m pushing to have Central Connecticut join the AE as soon as possible. I think the AE offers a much better deal than the NEC can. It would reestablish some great regional rivalries for Central (especially with the other NE schools). CCSU has a strong athletic program that would be very competitive in all sports and our facilities compare with any existing AE program. While academics are not the strongest side to a CCSU bid, I think it is fair to group us with the SUNY additions in that regard. I still think Central remains the only realistic option for the AE and hope the league would pursue that option in the future.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- Dane96, 10:32:46 04/29/03 Tue
CCSU has a
>strong athletic program that would be very competitive
>in all sports and our facilities compare with any
>existing AE program. While academics are not the
>strongest side to a CCSU bid, I think it is fair to
>group us with the SUNY additions in that regard.
While I can appreciate your efforts I have two thoughts. Your football team is miserable is one. You guys haven't had a good season in a long time, even though I love your head coach (former Asst. at UA). Second, your academics are nowhere near the three SUNY's. Binghamton is a nationally recognized liberal arts school...one of the best. UA and SBU are national research universities which feature the national weatherservice headquarters and a medical school, respectively, among other nationally recognized programs at each school. There is clearly a drop off between the schools in AE (are you even remotely comparing yourselves to UVM...because that would be laughable) and CCSU. Please don't get me wrong...I think Quinnipiac would be a mistake as well.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- mainejeff, 13:56:40 04/29/03 Tue
>Obliviously no school in the A-10 would leave for the
>AE (unless the Bonnies are ever forced out). If Miami
>or VT (or anyone else) left the Big East, I don't know
>of an A-10 program that could fill its shoes (w/
>football), so I don't see any trickle down effect
>either by having an AE team jump to the A-10. The CAA
>and Patriot teams have no real reason to move either
>they are generally a stronger conference. Buffalo is
>not a great fit in the MAC, but with I-A football
>program, they might have the only chance at a possible
>Big East spot. Lots of discussion about DII schools
>looking to jump to DI, but wouldn't an established
>program increase the quality of the league rather than
>an UMASS-Lowell?
>
>UMass, URI, HC, and Hoftsra have no reason to leave
>their current conference and join the AE. Central and
>Sacred Heart are the only schools from “the list” that
>can bring a comparable football program to the league
>and CCSU has a much stronger athletic program than
>SHU. Quinn does have tons of cash, but I think they
>want to compete academically with smaller private
>institutions like Loyola in the MAAC, so they aren't a
>good fit at all.
>
>Clearly I’m pushing to have Central Connecticut join
>the AE as soon as possible. I think the AE offers a
>much better deal than the NEC can. It would
>reestablish some great regional rivalries for Central
>(especially with the other NE schools). CCSU has a
>strong athletic program that would be very competitive
>in all sports and our facilities compare with any
>existing AE program. While academics are not the
>strongest side to a CCSU bid, I think it is fair to
>group us with the SUNY additions in that regard. I
>still think Central remains the only realistic option
>for the AE and hope the league would pursue that
>option in the future.
JJ....With all due respect, football has no bearibng on the future endeavors of America East. That has been made painfully obvious over the last couple of years. As far as academics go, I could care less....unless you are an Ivy, it's all overrated to me. If a school operates within the rules set forth by the NCAA then who the hell cares.....honestly, some people take the academic comparisons so seriously it makes me laugh.....good and bad educations are offered at ANY school. It just sounds like snobbery and a crutch for weaker athletic programs to thump their chest about academics.
Anyway....CC does not offer AE anything special other than another footprint in Connecticut (which would be a good thing), but I'm afraid it's not enough to turn heads.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 15:03:38 04/29/03 Tue
>
>JJ....With all due respect, football has no bearibng
>on the future endeavors of America East. That has
>been made painfully obvious over the last couple of
>years. As far as academics go, I could care
>less....unless you are an Ivy, it's all overrated to
>me. If a school operates within the rules set forth
>by the NCAA then who the hell cares.....honestly, some
>people take the academic comparisons so seriously it
>makes me laugh.....good and bad educations are offered
>at ANY school. It just sounds like snobbery and a
>crutch for weaker athletic programs to thump their
>chest about academics.
>
Jeff, I agree with you that an excellent education can be obtained at virtually any university if one really takes advantage of the opportunity. But the presidents of the AE member schools obviously take these academic comparisons VERY seriously. Whether we like it or not, that is our reality.
And I think the issue with the AE schools is that they operate within a set of rules that is more stringent than what the NCAA sets forth. An institution operating at just the NCAA level of rules is deemed as having an advantage in recruiting.
Even the best of the AE athletic programs are probably "inferior" on the national measuring stick. And the vast majority of AE athletes are NOT going pro in their sports. So, IMHO I don't think academic prowess is snobbery as much as it is being pragmatic and not exploiting our athletes like we all know occurs at "big time" programs.
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Re: Future AE membership?-mainejeff -- Patch, 16:51:05 04/29/03 Tue
I do care about academics and I think many of the AE schools say one thing and do another. Hell with the avg. SAT as posted today - how many schools have athletes below the avg.(especially men's basketball), I believe many. It would be nice but impractical to have an athlete pool equal too the general pool so when you talk academics you're usually talking about the general student body not the athletes (especially the men).
>>Obliviously no school in the A-10 would leave for the
>>AE (unless the Bonnies are ever forced out). If Miami
>>or VT (or anyone else) left the Big East, I don't know
>>of an A-10 program that could fill its shoes (w/
>>football), so I don't see any trickle down effect
>>either by having an AE team jump to the A-10. The CAA
>>and Patriot teams have no real reason to move either
>>they are generally a stronger conference. Buffalo is
>>not a great fit in the MAC, but with I-A football
>>program, they might have the only chance at a possible
>>Big East spot. Lots of discussion about DII schools
>>looking to jump to DI, but wouldn't an established
>>program increase the quality of the league rather than
>>an UMASS-Lowell?
>>
>>UMass, URI, HC, and Hoftsra have no reason to leave
>>their current conference and join the AE. Central and
>>Sacred Heart are the only schools from “the list” that
>>can bring a comparable football program to the league
>>and CCSU has a much stronger athletic program than
>>SHU. Quinn does have tons of cash, but I think they
>>want to compete academically with smaller private
>>institutions like Loyola in the MAAC, so they aren't a
>>good fit at all.
>>
>>Clearly I’m pushing to have Central Connecticut join
>>the AE as soon as possible. I think the AE offers a
>>much better deal than the NEC can. It would
>>reestablish some great regional rivalries for Central
>>(especially with the other NE schools). CCSU has a
>>strong athletic program that would be very competitive
>>in all sports and our facilities compare with any
>>existing AE program. While academics are not the
>>strongest side to a CCSU bid, I think it is fair to
>>group us with the SUNY additions in that regard. I
>>still think Central remains the only realistic option
>>for the AE and hope the league would pursue that
>>option in the future.
>
>JJ....With all due respect, football has no bearibng
>on the future endeavors of America East. That has
>been made painfully obvious over the last couple of
>years. As far as academics go, I could care
>less....unless you are an Ivy, it's all overrated to
>me. If a school operates within the rules set forth
>by the NCAA then who the hell cares.....honestly, some
>people take the academic comparisons so seriously it
>makes me laugh.....good and bad educations are offered
>at ANY school. It just sounds like snobbery and a
>crutch for weaker athletic programs to thump their
>chest about academics.
>
>Anyway....CC does not offer AE anything special other
>than another footprint in Connecticut (which would be
>a good thing), but I'm afraid it's not enough to turn
>heads.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 18:13:35 04/28/03 Mon
>>So what does everyone think the AE will look like in
>>the next few years?
>
After all the changes in the past few years, I think that staying at 10, establishing travel partners and improving the league will be the focus. Adding UMBC really helped Baseball and Lacrosse to solidify the league's NCAA auto bid.
I believe that Central was turned down by the AE back in the mid 90's, primarily based on academics. Yes, they are a great fit geographically and they are a state school, but I think they'd still come up short on the academic standards.
As for the future, who knows -- football will be the factor. It will implode the Big East and A-10 as we know them today. The BE will either get whacked by defections to the ACC or beat the ACC to the punch by adding a couple of football schools (thus keeping current schools from leaving, just like adding Miami did a few years ago). It's all trickle down after that.
I haven't read anything in the Hartford Courant about Central upgrading their football to a higher 1-AA level. Is anything in the works?
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 08:59:55 04/29/03 Tue
>I believe that Central was turned down by the AE back
>in the mid 90's, primarily based on academics. Yes,
>they are a great fit geographically and they are a
>state school, but I think they'd still come up short
>on the academic standards.
>
>I haven't read anything in the Hartford Courant about
>Central upgrading their football to a higher 1-AA
>level. Is anything in the works?
I'm sorry these are great posts, but this academic thing and Central is B.S. I know its a state school and not UConn, but come on now! There is no way anyone can tell me the academics at Binghamton, Stony Brook, or Albany are that much greater than CCSU. I'm not putting down any school, but lets be fair, none of these programs are nationally recognized universities - they are regional comprehensive universities.
Central remains I-AA football and it is impossible for them to make the jump. UConn will have a tough enough time. The team has made great strides and for the second season will play 2 former “Yankee Conference” teams – UMass and UNH (Last season we played Umass and Maine). Additionally we’ve played Albany and Stony Brook for the last 2 seasons.
I bet the AE did previously reject Central because CCSU has had a rough time at DI. We began as an Independent (boy does that suck), joined the now defunct ECC for a few seasons, went back to independent, then joined the geographically misfit Mid-Con, and finally joined the NEC. When we first joined the NEC I couldn’t have be happier just to be in a conference, but now as we have established ourselves at a competitive DI program I would welcome the chance to join the AE where we would be a great fit!
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Re:CCSU & Ricardo Scott -- lsbal, 09:27:27 04/29/03 Tue
I think there is a BIG rift now between the AE & CCSU. Granted there are many ways of correcting this but I still think (from what I hear) that there is a lot of animosity from the previous rejection. I'm not sure CCSU would even be interested in the AE now....even if the AE wanted them.
By the way the Hartford Courant reported today that Ricardo Scott(would be a senior next year) is transfering out of CCSU.He didn't feel like he was being treated well enough(though he got the 2nd most minutes on the team).He wants to transfer to one of the Mass schools.He named NU,BU or BC.
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Re:CCSU & Ricardo Scott -- J.J., 10:39:08 04/29/03 Tue
>By the way the Hartford Courant reported today that
>Ricardo Scott(would be a senior next year) is
>transfering out of CCSU.He didn't feel like he was
>being treated well enough(though he got the 2nd most
>minutes on the team).He wants to transfer to one of
>the Mass schools.He named NU,BU or BC.
Wow! Great article in the Courant. He was a good player and I'm sorry to see him go. He will be a big pick up for BU or NU, but has no chance at BC. But give Howie some credit - he doesn't take shit from anyone. We lost our senior captain this year 'cus Howie cut him for trying to start a team mutiny. I can imagine he can be tough to play for, but he gets 100% from his players or they sit the bench. Also, Scott’s quotes tell you the mindset he’s in. Come on, Duke shouldn't even be on his mind; not to mention his incident freshman year.
I’m sure Central felt rejected from the AE, but as recently as 1993 they probably didn’t belong. I’d love to know some more details and the current situation, but I also assume things could be worked out if both sides want to.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 10:16:38 04/29/03 Tue
Central's Academic Standards (if you want to call them that) don't even belong in the same category at Binghamton or Albany. I'm not that familiar with Stony Brook, but I know that Binghamton's business school is very well regarded even in marketplaces like Boston. Albany's programs are equally as respected.
Central's academics are a joke. I'm from CT, and I've got to think that I'd put it at a level below Quinnipiac and Sacred Heart, and even Hartford.
In this day and age everyone's focusing on academics and athletics, and I don't think Central has a good combo. Also, I'm not sure how good their commitment to women's athletics is. Traditionally it hasn't been strong.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 11:05:51 04/29/03 Tue
>Central's Academic Standards (if you want to call them
>that) don't even belong in the same category at
>Binghamton or Albany. I'm not that familiar with
>Stony Brook, but I know that Binghamton's business
>school is very well regarded even in marketplaces like
>Boston. Albany's programs are equally as respected.
>
>Central's academics are a joke. I'm from CT, and I've
>got to think that I'd put it at a level below
>Quinnipiac and Sacred Heart, and even Hartford.
>
>In this day and age everyone's focusing on academics
>and athletics, and I don't think Central has a good
>combo. Also, I'm not sure how good their commitment
>to women's athletics is. Traditionally it hasn't been
>strong.
I also grew up in CT and way back in the Dark Ages when I went off to UNH, it was much more difficult to get into UNH than CCSU. Yes, the standards for out of state were more stringent, but MANY of my HS classmates were accepted at Central and not by UConn. I believe most, if not all, of the public institutions in the AE are viewed as academic equals to UConn and most have multiple programs that are nationally recognized. (Not slamming the private institutions, just trying to compare public to public.) For example, UNH's Business and Engineering programs are nationally recognized. There is also the AE school's recognition as research universities.
Probably the most important criteria though is the standards for admitting athletes into school. To my knowledge UNH's minimum standards have always been significantly higher than NCAA regulations and I think that is the case at the other public instituitions. Doesn't the AE have a league policy (or unwritten rule) about not admitting non-predictors? I believe most of the AE schools don't admit athletes who only meet the NCAA standards because the odds are against them maintaining academic eligibility.
I hope I'm not all wet on this as it has been a while since I had first hand knowledge of admission standards at UNH. Never the less, I continue to see a stream of business and engineering majors (as well as other impressive majors) on the basketball team and a number of Dean's list students. The past two years have seen kids in grad school while they use their 4th year of eligibility within 5 years. I'm sure that my fellow posters from the other AE schools can tell similar stories.
It was posted a few months ago when all the UMBC rumors surfaced, that UMBC really made a VERY favorable impression on the AE University Presidents and in the process blew away the Quinnipiac proposal. It was all based on academics. So, the academic stuff isn't BS, it is extremely important to the AE members.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 12:29:56 04/29/03 Tue
Hey, I admire your loyalties to Central, but we need to start facing reality in New Britian...
So let me get this straight... Central belongs in the AE because...
- No one outside of New England and the Tri State area knows Binghamton and Albany. Those schools are significantly better than Central. And people confuse Central Connecticut with Yale all the time, I'm sure. Give me a break, Central is a step or two ahead of Southern when it comes to academics. I'm not claiming NU is Harvard, but come on, Central's academics aren't their strength, and in this league, that's what they're looking for.
- You claim Stony Brook is a commuter school, what's Central then?
- Funny, I worked in Fairfield County and in the Greater Hartford Area for an international firm for almost 5 years and neither my firm nor our competitors ever considered Central when it came to a strong business school. Western has the best business school of the "State Universities" in Connecticut, not Central.
- Central's got a good education program, it better be since it used to be called "New Britain Teacher's College."
Central's academic standards aren't up to those of the rest of the league, and as long as that's what the League Presidents are looking for, I think they'll be on the outside looking in.
They key for UMBC is that it was an excellent research institution. I don't see how CCSU (or QU, or SHU) fits in that scheme. I know this is the one area NU is focusing on in its goal to be a Top 100 National Institution because that's where the prestige is.
I agree with UNH, there's going to be a lot of conference movement in the next 3-5 years. Perhaps if NU and BU aren't in the AE, there's room for Central, but I know that the NU President didn't want to associate with Quinnipiac, so why he'd want to associate with CCSU, it's beyond me. I can't see BU going for it either.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 11:11:26 04/29/03 Tue
>Central's Academic Standards (if you want to call them
>that) don't even belong in the same category at
>Binghamton or Albany. I'm not that familiar with
>Stony Brook, but I know that Binghamton's business
>school is very well regarded even in marketplaces like
>Boston. Albany's programs are equally as respected.
>
>Central's academics are a joke. I'm from CT, and I've
>got to think that I'd put it at a level below
>Quinnipiac and Sacred Heart, and even Hartford.
>
>In this day and age everyone's focusing on academics
>and athletics, and I don't think Central has a good
>combo. Also, I'm not sure how good their commitment
>to women's athletics is. Traditionally it hasn't been
>strong.
Obviously you’re a jackass, even if you are from CT. Stony Brook is a fine commuter college on L.I. primarily drawing student from the tri-state area. Binghamton and Albany are also fine state institutions of higher education, but no one outside the Northeast would even know what they are. They are SUNY schools, again great state institutions.
Undergraduate education has a primary purpose to prepare students for full time jobs or grad school. Although I won’t bore you or any one else on this board with the details, Central does as well as any other mid-size public university in the country for an undergraduate education(and for much less $). In addition its education program and buisness school and also well respected in the region. Private schools like Quinn and SHU are diploma factories, making money hand over fist. And as for women’s athletics, the CCSU soccer team made the NCAAs this year and recently a US News & World Report article on Title IX listed Central as one of the top schools in the country for commitment to women’s athletics.
Its to bad NU hasn’t prepared you as well as Central could have. You appear arrogant and more importantly ignorant about both sports and academics. Good thing I won’t judge an NU education by your results, otherwise I’d send my kids to a good community college before bought a NU degree.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 11:22:50 04/29/03 Tue
UNH - you make a fine point and that is something Central is trying hard to overcome. Clearly having UConn in your backyard makes it more difficult for us than any other comparable public school in New England. I recently spoke with the CCSU Alumni director who said that since Central had raise SAT score for acceptance, she had got more than calls from alumni trying to get their childeren into Central. As most CT residents know that kinda of stuff was unheard of, so progress has been made and I hope it continues.
My thoughts on Quinn mirror yours as I indicated in my last message to NU. It is an overpriced dipolma factory. So I think its fair to say academics are important, I just thought in my opinion the UMBC, SUNY, Central comparisons are generally fair.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 11:59:48 04/29/03 Tue
>UNH - you make a fine point and that is something
>Central is trying hard to overcome. Clearly having
>UConn in your backyard makes it more difficult for us
>than any other comparable public school in New
>England. I recently spoke with the CCSU Alumni
>director who said that since Central had raise SAT
>score for acceptance, she had got more than calls
>from alumni trying to get their childeren into
>Central. As most CT residents know that kinda of
>stuff was unheard of, so progress has been made and I
>hope it continues.
>
>My thoughts on Quinn mirror yours as I indicated in my
>last message to NU. It is an overpriced dipolma
>factory. So I think its fair to say academics are
>important, I just thought in my opinion the UMBC,
>SUNY, Central comparisons are generally fair.
Believe me, for selfish purposes, I wish Central was in the AE -- another game every year in my back yard!! One I could attend every year even if it was on a week night! And you'd be a great travel partner with U of H. And I think your rivalry with the Hawks could be as intense as any in the league. It would make the Hartford Civic Center (with curtains) a great location for our tourney due to the central location.
Who knows where everything leads in the next five years. Hartford has always been happier with the academic philosophy of the AE than with leagues with other private institutions (as LSBAL has explained to us), but who knows about the future. NU could be going to the CAA in three years. Leagues could rearrange with football as a common denominator. That is why I asked about CCSU football because I don't think they are comparable to football in the A-10 and specifically Maine, UNH and NU.
I agree that from facilities I've seen, you guys are comparable to AE schools. And in recent years your basketball attendance has been better than most AE schools. Of course, it should be as you have a gazillion alumni to draw upon in the Greater Hartford area and you've won the NEC. BTW, that's a huge advantage you have over Hartford. And I feel your pain as that UConn shadow is immense. There are similarities at BU, NU, Maine, UVM and UNH with the shadow of their hockey programs which play at the highest level of D-1. And I see your dilemna as a public institution in the NEC where the majority are private schools.
JMHO, I think there will be opportunities in coming years with significant conference transitions, Central might be able to take advantage of them.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 13:44:33 04/29/03 Tue
Your insight is appriciated and I couldn't agree with you more. I think football is the biggest sticking point in any conference affiliation discussion. Central does not compare (or really even come clsose)to UNH, UMass, or Maine in football (just check out the scores). But we have been willing to play them (at least they have let us play them) and I think that's a step in the right direction. BU has recently dropped football, UMBC doesn't have a team, and Stony Brook and Albany are football members of the NEC. How does this football dynamic impact membership? And what really is the direction of the AE in the future?
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 14:36:10 04/29/03 Tue
>Your insight is appriciated and I couldn't agree with
>you more. I think football is the biggest sticking
>point in any conference affiliation discussion.
>Central does not compare (or really even come
>clsose)to UNH, UMass, or Maine in football (just check
>out the scores). But we have been willing to play them
>(at least they have let us play them) and I think
>that's a step in the right direction. BU has recently
>dropped football, UMBC doesn't have a team, and Stony
>Brook and Albany are football members of the NEC. How
>does this football dynamic impact membership? And
>what really is the direction of the AE in the future?
I think the impact is that schools naturally try to form "all sports" leagues. That is what is starting to happen in the Big East and C-USA. I've already read in the Hartford media calls to drop Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova and Georgetown from the Big East because they don't play 1-A football. Temple already bounced from the BE will probably try to find a league with 1-A football and leave the A-10. There is a similar riff in the C-USA between football and non-football schools. I think it is only natural that a similar process is likely to occur at the 1-AA scholarship level. It isn't unhappiness with the AE as much as it is to interact with the same set of schools in football as well as all your other sports. I'm only an alum and a fan so I have no idea what the AE's direction is going to be. I don't know if 1-AA football will always have a separate league similar to 1-A hockey. The dynamic will be whether realignment to have "all sports" conferences occurs or not. I don't know if the AE is taking a proactive role in this process.
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JJ get your facts straight before you speak -- Dane96, 16:24:01 04/29/03 Tue
JJ, i dont defend NU Hoop fan often, but you my friend...are the jackass, not NU HOOP FAN (though we regularly disagree).
Stony Brook IS NOT A COMMUTER SCHOOL...you are such a fool its amazing. They have probably...i dont know, half the kids living on campus. The others live in off campus housing. HOFSTRA is more of a commuter school.
. "Binghamton and Albany are also fine state institutions of higher education, but no one outside the Northeast would even know what they are. They are SUNY schools, again great state institutions."
Amazingly Bingamton is a nationally ranked liberal arts institution. Oh yeah...UA, Top 20 education school, Top 15 Public Administration, Top 5 Criminal Justice (w/ NU), Top 10 Social Welfare, great business school that all the accounting firms regularly donate money too (OH, BTW, the highest CPA first time passage rate in NEW YORK comes from UA's business school), over 80% of its students go on to a post-graduate degree (that was based on the last figures the school released!), the national weatherservice East Coast research institute, the number one ranked Nanotechnology center in the east coast, partnering w/ Stanford, CIT, MIT and RPI. Shall I continue, or shall I stop.
KNOW YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU SPEW!
Oh yeah...on a final note. UA and SBU are Class IV Carnegie Research institutes...the highest national class you can be in. About the only thing UA and SBU trail MSU, Michigan, etc. is w/ our endowments. UA has kicked off a 500 million capital campaign to increase the endowment from 14 mill to 500 mill in 2008.Excitingly, 8 million is earmarked for ATHLETICS! 'Nuff said! And yes...people even in Montana know UA...why...we actually have a good football team that travels! I do commend you guys for stepping up and playing UNH and Maine though! Which indicates CCSU is looking at possibly going scholarship IAA.
As for your football questions...UA and SBU are moving on up. Your tiny field (yes I have been to the new field) is not capable of making the transition up (though i never understood w/ all that space...why they didnt build a bigger field! If CCSU wants to seriously consider a big move...football is going to be a factor in making it attractive to a non-AE or possible future revamped AE. SBU put a 8000 seat beauty of a stadium up. UA just gave a prioritized list to the state including in order: a new practice facility, a new 8 lane track and artificial turf field, and a 15000-20000 seat football stadium. Not exactly the requests for a team who is staying in the NEC or at non-scholarship levels of football. We both play at non-scholarship football levels, but there is a world of difference between UA and CCSU on the field. BTW...non-scholly is a dying breed. The MAAC will fold by next year w/ the exception of Duquense who is either joining the NEC in football or the A-10.
So, point is...people A) know SBU, UA and Binghamton B) we are national research and medical schools (something CCSU is not), B) CCSU is comparable to ONEONTA, OSWEGO, etc...GENESEO is much better than CCSU academically, C) There is a much larger commitment on the part of the SUNY's to balance sports and academics...hence the dollars spent and trying to be raised.
CCSU is not comparable to the SUNY's in overall athletics (You do have a wonderful basketball program and coach.)
Just think before you speak.
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Re: JJ get your facts straight before you speak -- alumni "92", 15:48:31 05/02/03 Fri
great argument Dane96 ... impressive effort
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Don't assume just read. -- J.J., 17:58:28 04/29/03 Tue
I just don't see what you read to make you (or anyone else on this board) think that I was putting any school down, nor did I state Central was the second coming of Yale. I never once said anything bad about the SUNY (or any other schools). You just appear to have an inforeity complex (and a small penis too?). I guess I just shouldn’t have mentioned little Central in the same sentence as yours. Please! My quotes and info is accurate.
Bing is a great school. According to the website Bing draws 91% of its first year undergrad students from NY state. Great! Stony Brook is a former teachers college. Great!
Hears the real story. Since I began the discussion about AE membership and athletic competition, I suggested that CCSU would be a good fit in the league. Comments were made regarding Centrals’ academics. While I agreed CCSU would most likely sit at the bottom of the AE in that category, I didn’t think we were as bad as some people commented. I’d just like to know who’s there right now? How does everyone reading this rank the AE schools in academics currently? Does the conference have such parity that everyone is equal? That’s like saying Dartmouth doesn’t belong in the Ivy, because they’re not up to Yale standards? That is obsured!
I was merely stating that regarding undergraduate standards, to which nearly all student athletes are, Central is not that far off the current AE cellar dweller in academics. Hence it is not out of the world to believe they could join the conference considering other factors, such as geography, facilities, enrollment, school name (that seems to be a import issue for you all, e.g. UMBC), and athletics.
I congratulate you school on such a fine postgraduate studies program and for being a great research institution. But that was never the point. Not once did I state Central was a research institution (or even that they had a great graduate program for that matter). What was I said was that is one of the finer undergraduate universities in the region. Check the website http://www.ccsu.edu/CCSUnews/pointsofpride.htm so I won’t bore anyone with stupid shit like that.
I thank you for the few complements you did give. Yes non-scholarship football is on the way out and CCSU has come to the crossroads. But as you know the new coach (formerly HC at Ball State) has scheduled the team up (now we just need some wins). Dickeman has developed the most successful team in NE (minus UConn and HC) in the past few years. And the baseball team headed by the former Providence coach is looking forward. Furthermore as recently as last season, Central had two alumni as Head Coaches in the NFL at two of the most prestigious teams (Green Bay and Dallas). We know that they didn’t get there because of our football program. They got there because of the education they received at Central.
So next time anyone wants to pull out their dick to see who’s the biggest don’t forget to look down so you don’t ruin your shoes.
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Re: Don't assume just read.-You should get hooked on phonics -- Dane96, 18:31:43 04/29/03 Tue
For one, you said Central was comparable to the SUNY's...wrong. CCSU is not comparable to any school in the conference. A Binghamton fan has posted the facts and so did I (as did others.) Second, your run on sentences are definately the product of a bad writing course. Third, SBU was not a teachers college, UA was the "STATE TEACHERS COLLEGE" until, I believe, 1962 when it was designated a UNIVERSITY CENTER.
Once again poor facts equate to a poor argument and more of a reason to doubt the educational standards of CCSU.
How you equate a non-research university which is not recognized for liberal arts on a grandscale, w/ those of the other AE conference members, is quite honestly amazing. The facts are this: all the schools (w/ the exception of BU, NU, and Hartford) are very similar. Moreover, BU w/ the largest private endowment outside of Harvard and it's nationally acclaimed programs and schools, more than match that of the AE teams. Same is true of NU who has worked hard to shed a persona of a commuter school, in a bad area, w/o research. They are definately on pace w/ the other schools. Hartford, as noted, may be the loan exception to the rule, but they are old guard and do nothing to bring the conference down. Sure, could CCSU join, YES! But would they bring anything to the table...NO. THAT's what each of us has been arguing. UMBC brings academic excellance (they have now moved passed UM College Park in SAT scores and average GPA) and athletics (baseball, lax immediately!).
Bring me an argument on how you compare to UMBC...then we will talk!
LOL, those alumns from CCSU in the NFL you talk of...both started their careers at UA. Ask them both...since I know who you are referring to (hmmm...Dave Campo...OLINE COACH AT UA), who they credit there careers to. They will all answer BOB FORD, and not their playing days at CCSU...nor education for that matter! Once again, come up w/ a better argument...though I wish CCSU the best.
Oh yeah about penis sizes, since you (in bad taste) brought it up, I wouldn't know becuase that's not my thing. But you must have a large one since that's the only reason I can imagine a smart girl from BINGHAMTON dating such a knucklehead like yourself. And while on this board, J.J, try to keep it clean. We all argue at times, but we dont compare anatomy.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- BingGrad, 13:29:55 04/29/03 Tue
It appears that there is quite a gap between Central and the SUNY's as respects admission criteria -- based on the information I was able to quickly pull together from the individual school websites. Looking at average SAT scores (some list an actual average, others list the range from 25th to 75th percentile, Binghamton lists both, Stony Brook and Hartford list neither)
Central Conn 830 - 1049
Maine 980 - 1170
Boston U - 1240 - 1380
UNH - 1100
Vermont - 1193
Northeastern - 1070 - 1240
Albany 1100 - 1250
Binghamton 1235; 1160 - 1310
I don't have the background to comment on Hartford's relative rank here. Stony Brook is generally considered at about the same level as Albany, although perhaps just a shade below.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- BingGrad, 13:33:17 04/29/03 Tue
>It appears that there is quite a gap between Central
>and the SUNY's as respects admission criteria -- based
>on the information I was able to quickly pull together
>from the individual school websites. Looking at
>average SAT scores (some list an actual average,
>others list the range from 25th to 75th percentile,
>Binghamton lists both, Stony Brook and Hartford list
>neither)
>
>Central Conn 830 - 1049
>Maine 980 - 1170
>Boston U - 1240 - 1380
>UNH - 1100
>Vermont - 1193
>Northeastern - 1070 - 1240
>Albany 1100 - 1250
>Binghamton 1235; 1160 - 1310
>
>I don't have the background to comment on Hartford's
>relative rank here. Stony Brook is generally
>considered at about the same level as Albany, although
>perhaps just a shade below.
I forgot our newest member. UMBC - 1220 average score.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 16:09:55 04/29/03 Tue
Bing - Very good numbers. Assuming they are accurate I don't think that its that bad. It is interesting that Central is only 150 points off Maine's numbers (I thought we'd be farther off). The SUNY schools do rank considerable higher (I should have seen that coming - my girlfriend went to Bing). I would only guess that state population might have some influence on the standards. Maine and CT have a smaller pool of students to choose from and NY has more financial resources for its university system, but that's not important. I hope no one took any offense to what I had written before. I understand that Central would rank low on the academic standards, but it not a community college as NU would have implied, and its within reason to be included with existing AE schools. I started this discussion based on athletic competition and not as a debate of university reputations. I though many different views on AE expansion would be interesting. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 16:24:33 04/29/03 Tue
Who implied it was a community college?
To quote a famed coach (I think it was Bill Parcells), you are what you are.
Is it a school with a ton of commuters, yes. So in fact was NU up until the last 10 years.
Is it a state school funded by a state educational system that's in trouble? Yes, but so is UMass, and I can't imagine UVM, UNH, Maine or the SUNY's are in much better shape.
Does it meet the criteria that the AE wants in a member institution? Today, probably not. Five years from now, who knows, but I doubt it.
In fact, I'd argue that if Hartford were being considered for membership at any other time in the league's history except for the time it was admitted, it might have a difficult time getting in. Not as hard a time as CCSU or Quinnipiac, but I know that the research levels at Hartford are probably at the bottom of the AE rung. Not a knock on Hartford, at all, just the facts.
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