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] Date Posted:06:26:01 11/03/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 172.83.159.140 In reply to:
Nathalie
's message, "The Double Standard" on 03:36:54 10/14/25 Tue
Nathalie, I think this is primarily due to differences in parenting styles. Girls' privacy is considered precious, so parents teach them from a young age to protect it from men. However, few parents teach boys to protect their private parts from girls. I remember when I was eight years old in elementary school, I accidentally touched a female classmate's chest. She immediately became very upset and told my mother that girls shouldn't let others see or touch their breasts and genitals, and demanded I apologize immediately. Many girls learn to protect their privacy from a very young age thanks to their parents' upbringing. But in my memory, my parents rarely taught me anything about boys' privacy; they only told me to respect girls' modesty and not to touch them without permission.
I remember one summer when I was 10, my mom took me and her best friend swimming. Her friend had a 10-year-old daughter with her. When we got to the river, she realized she'd forgotten my swimming trunks. She asked if I could swim naked, telling me it used to be normal for boys to swim. Although I had to wear swimming trunks when I started swimming lessons at 9, I still thought swimming naked was acceptable, so I agreed. That afternoon, I swam naked in front of a girl my age. At the time, I didn't think it was a big deal. It wasn't until I was 12 or 13 that I felt a little embarrassed when I thought about it.
The lack of parental education about male modesty in my youth led many boys to not care about exposing their bodies when they were young. This resulted in a huge difference in privacy between boys and girls in school rooms. The boys' restrooms in my elementary and middle schools were quite revealing; the urinals were right at the entrance. When you urinated, your penis was exposed to people outside, and most girls would glance at you as they passed by. The girls' restrooms, on the other hand, were very private, usually at the end of a corridor, and the doors were often closed. I didn't know what the girls' restrooms looked like until graduation, but I believe most girls knew what the boys' restrooms looked like from day one. You could tell how many stalls, sinks, and urinals were just by glancing around on your way to the girls' restroom, and you might even see a boy's penis while he was urinating. The summer camp I attended was the same; the boys' showers had no partitions, so all the boys could see each other naked, and there were relatively few of them. Because of the large number of boys, some had to use the open-air showers. Meanwhile, the female campers told me that the girls' showers were newly built, with more stalls and partitions to protect the girls' privacy. This double standard in the construction of these facilities reinforced the idea that boys' privacy was unimportant, while girls' privacy was precious.
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Date Posted:10:14:56 11/03/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 72.78.201.247
tim99’s post reminded me of a Websearch on modesty training which I made a few years ago.
I made two major discoveries.
Discovery number one:
----Modesty training is mainly a religious doctrine.
Psychology research has nothig to do with it.
I expected to find controlled studies, published in technical journals, on the benefits of modesty training and instructions on how it should be done.
Rather, nearly every site I could find was a religious site.
Discovery number two:
----It goes without saying that modesty training is important for girls.
However, we must add that modesty training is also important for boys.
I found 8 sites which discussed modesty training for both boys and girls.
12 sites discussed modesty training for girls only.
The double standard was sometimes defended with a quote from I Timothy 2: 9: “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel…”
One might think that the mother of three boys and one girl would have three times as much to say about the former than the latter.
But one mother (dead link now) didn’t. Except for one sentence, her entire page dealt with latter, except for one sentence, which read:
“(I should note here that we are also teaching our boys to be modest in how they dress and act as well.)”
Notice the parentheses.
2 sites discussed modesty training for boys only.
Although one site was already a dead link, I was able to glean the title, which I found to be quite revealing:
“3 Things I'm Teaching My Boys About Modesty....because it's not all about the women only when it comes to modesty!”
The other page was entitled “Modesty is for boys too.”
Here’s the link:
Until this point, all of the sites mentioned have been mainline Christian sites.
I also found a Catholic site:
I was interested in the writer’s informal thought experiment:
“With teens, I use the ads that we are flooded with that show women with practically nothing on, and I ask them if the effect would be the same if the face of the woman of the advertisement was that of their mother. Obviously, the effect is not the same, because their mother is a person they know and love. In this situation, or in others that they themselves have experienced of an intrusion into their privacy, I invite them to tell me what their immediate reaction was. They all answer me without exception that they felt a sense of shame.”
There were also found a few Mormon sites.
It seems that the question is not clearly answered in the Mormon scriptures.
In one Website, in which opinions from many Mormon parents are collected, there was a variety of opinions.
Some of those parents decried the double standard:
The author of another Mormon site (Allred n. d.), however, did not seem to set the exact same standard for both genders:
“Girls might not recognize that the physical display they create when they dress immodestly affects boys more than it does them. Help children, especially daughters, understand that attracting someone of the opposite sex solely by physical means does not create a lasting relationship.”
Other Mormon adults regard girl modesty as a foregone assumption.
In a Webpage entitled Teaching Modesty to Children (Madison 2020), one would not expect to find any semblance of, or even reaction to, a double standard.
Yet a person quoted on the page (Evans 2020) wrote: “For me, modesty is an attitude that reflects healthy body image. Cultivating this attitude can improve self-esteem in both girls and boys. Yes, boys!”
The Webpage ended with the words, “If you’re a mom, how did you teach modesty to your daughters? Comment below with your answer.”
I was able to find one secular Website. It was a question-and-answer site, now with a dead link, which a parent of a toddler asked about the subject.
In one of the answers, we again see modesty for girls treated as a unspoken assumption:
“I believe it is very important to teach about modesty. Not only for a girl but also boys.”
Date Posted:05:08:21 11/04/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 172.83.159.140
Of course, Spelvin , I agree with your point that modesty is important for boys, but like many things, although it's said to be important online, reality is different. The reality is that most people don't care about boys' modesty , or rather, they think it's less important than girls' modesty . Sacrificing boys' modesty to protect girls is acceptable.
When I was in fourth grade, our classroom moved to a new floor. The girls on that floor said there weren't many stalls in the girls' restroom. Some girls told the teacher that there were sometimes long lines during breaks, and they often couldn't use the restroom during breaks because of the lines. The teacher didn't hesitate to tell the girls that if they really needed to pee but couldn't go into the girls' restroom, they could use the boys' restroom. She also warned us boys that if a girl had to use a boys' stall, we boys must not try to peek in any way. If any girl reported a boy peeping while she was using the restroom, she would immediately call the boy's parents because this wasn't an academic issue, but a serious moral one. However, the teacher never told the girls not to look at boys' private parts when they entered the boys' restroom. As far as I know, girls who have the opportunity to use the men's restroom will glance at the exposed genitals of the boys urinating in the urinals before going to a stall. Some boys don't think it's a big deal, while others have spoken to teachers about this, but the teachers think they're being ungentlemanly by not wanting girls to use the boy's restroom only for a moment and have scolded them. I think this shows the significant difference in privacy between boys and girls at that time.
This happened more than a decade ago, and perhaps now boys' modesty is indeed valued more. I'm just sharing my experience and perspective from back then.
Date Posted:15:30:52 11/03/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
I had those experiences as Tim did too being thrown into being naked sometimes. I can not say it upset me any really though accounts from others here, show it did upset them.
I was simply in a backyard with a pool one day with a girl my age and I was told to swim at about 7 and we both swam naked. I enjoyed day and was invited back to play often. It was the standard that I play in pool naked after that always, except that after swimming I stayed naked too, while girl put on tshirt and shorts when done swimming. To my surprise my mom encouraged it for me. This house was very nearby and when I was told to get ready to go over there is meant to get naked in summer. It was just the way life was.
I was sort of the naked boy a lot. On a beach trip with them, we stopped at one of those tacky beach shops for supplies and I was told to pick out a beach toy while girl picked out a swim suit. It did not dawn on me that I was to go without . I can not say I cared even and enjoyed freedom. Best I perceived at that age and time was that naked boys on beach under 9 or so were just cute and accepted. Just like the backyard pool, when I went naked on beach first time, then I always went naked on beach. Even if I got a bit toasted I went under umbrella and stayed bare ass. We were regulars at that same spot and played with the other kids. Now I know we are on topic of double standard but some girls did play naked and some with bottoms, but most were clothed after a certain age. Now when I got older I learned the beach we went to was adjacent to a clothing optional beach so no one cared about being 100 meters past the edge of a nature area, so my beach experience might not be the norm. I really do not know for sure. I think I stopped at 15 not because I cared but because I had other things to do like jobs and sports. Even then with sportssome nudity was involved but that is enough from me.
The question was more the cut off age though for boys. I do know at some public pools it is quite young, say under 8 when it stops. For me though I did not have to stop at backyard pool or beach as it was clothing optional way back then. It may have been unoffical spot.
Date Posted:04:17:27 11/04/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 172.83.159.140
Yes, Trent,I agree with your last paragraph. Although there are strict restrictions on nudity in official areas, many naked children, mostly boys, still exist in unofficial areas.
Girls are far more likely to see naked boys than boys are to see naked girls when they are young. Many girls have the chance to see naked boys by chance when they are young, but this is not the case for boys. I only saw naked girls when I learned to use internet search engines. Before I had a girlfriend in college, I had never seen a naked girl in real life.
Date Posted:07:03:36 11/04/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 203.190.14.168
Haha, you are right. All my nieces have seen my nephews naked, along with my son. Countless girls have seen my son naked in the shower rooms, bathrooms, beaches etc. till he was about l0 or 11. But on the other hand, I think the oldest girl my son ever saw naked was only about 3 (excluding any girlfriend of course). I just can't help but laugh thinking how some of his cousins who are closer to his age has seen him naked countless times but he has never seen them naked. It is what it is I guess.
Date Posted:04:38:54 11/05/25 Wed Author Host/IP: 172.83.159.140
It is what it is. You are right, Nathalie ,That is the reality. Before puberty, we boys often expose ourselves naked to girls our own age, giving girls a lot of education about male anatomy. Girls' genitals, on the other hand, are always firmly covered by their clothes. This is undoubtedly a double standard. Some say girls may use this advantage to tease boys (although I didn't encounter many such girls growing up). Have you encountered this situation while raising your son? You say countless girls have seen you son naked in different area. Your son might not react much because he's not at the age where male modesty is expected. But what about the girl who saw him naked? And if a girl sees your son naked multiple times, how will her reaction differ from the first time?
Date Posted:06:19:58 11/04/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 203.190.14.168
You are absolutely correct. I already have wrote here about how parents raise girls and boys differently when it comes to modesty due to cultural expectations. I will add to your comments that a lot of the times we moms see our boys in a very innocent way. Even when there over 10 years old we see them as babies. Not that it doesn't happen with girl moms, but it's just much more common with boy moms. And so we moms don't care much to insert modesty on our boys as naked boys is nothing for us. And this plays a big part in different nudity standards between boys and girls, as mothers are usually much more involved with a child growing up compared to fathers.
Date Posted:23:25:29 11/04/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
I enjoyed beach and pool and was around same small group of girls seeing me naked so looked forward to it.
Perhaps you are right about double standard being more prominent in locker rooms. As a teen, moms still went in boys room to attend younger boys. I would change right beside them sometimes and walk to shower naked and back, not being modest about it. Some teen girtsl were there with younger brothers too. Some girls enjoyed it and others were shy and just doing it quick to get out.
One girl from perhaps russia or nearby changed with her dad sometimes. I left her alone but chatted with her in gym otherwise about normal kid stuff and we were friends.
Date Posted:17:12:48 11/05/25 Wed Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
So, there I was, a young lad in the '70s, and let me tell you, it was a time of double standards that would make youblush. Skinny dipping and streaking weren't just rumors; they were practically national pastimes! My mom had a friend who was a nudist, and that was about as mainstream as avocado toast is today. It was a hot topic, but not something you'd see on every weekend.
My mom's close friend was a nudist, but my mom? Nah, she was more of a "clothes are optional, but I'll stick with the usual" kind of galbut both thought it was super important for me to be comfortable in my birthday suit growing up as aboy. I mean, who doesn't want to run around naked like a little wild child, So, I did it. I went from being a shy little thing to not at all/
My friend's mom was a nudist too! So, whenever I'd go over to their place, Both mom and daughter were as bare ass the day they were born, and I, being the innocent little boy I was, didn't think twice about it.
But even in this world of nudity, I couldn't escape the double standards. I'd see girl dressed up to go for a bike ride or play in the park, and I'd be naked sometimes. I just accepted it.
Date Posted:19:06:28 11/08/25 Sat Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
I heard term double standard but did not care about it or know what it meant.
Some girls did play without tshirets like boys did often. It was not a concern. I would also took a bath with a girl my age at a young age till she no longer wanted to do that.
The double standard was more from 9 to 13 or so when boys went naked and girls had fully stopped. Beach seemed to be an exception for no reason I understood.
Date Posted:00:21:45 12/15/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 122.63.130.98
Hi Nathalie I swam nude at home growing up as did my younger brother and two boy cousins.My two sister's and four girl cousins always wore swimsuits.
Date Posted:17:41:05 12/16/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
My double standard was at a back yard pool, and a local gym.
Bad yard pool was often 3 boys and 2 girls. I started going nude at this pool in private large field at 10, when other kids were 9, 7, 8, and 5. All boys were treated same and if using pool we did not get dressed again in back yard until leaving usually. The girls saw it all and were not shy about it. They would give you a tug if they wanted to play a game to get you to move.
But the MOST exposed and MOST double standard was a local boy's room in a gym I used till I left that home around 17. It wasn't every single day but, once I was walking to shower nude and a girl my age was in boys room changing her brother. I was shy when I saw this but got over it. It became a regular occurrence of her changing her brother. But what was more of a double standard is one of the female gym instructors always went in boys room to what younger boys change before and after class. She was maybe 22 I was 14 and younger boys were 10 and under in swim class. It was common for boys to do swimming and calisthenics nude back then, so you got over shyness or dropped out. A few boys got picked up naked too and no one said a word as uncool to complain about that during peak hippie times.
Date Posted:04:02:41 12/23/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
My double standard was less subtle. I was intentionally kept naked on beaches till 12. My mom did not want me shy. Sometimes I was only naked kid and other times many. Id get shorts pulled off as soon as at beach for entire day. I recall playing with same girls dressed all time but seemed ok for times.
Date Posted:04:37:01 12/25/25 Thu Author Host/IP: 76.195.201.31
I was treated to same.
When we went to beach as a summer event, I was just given a towel adn flip flops and my two sisters had one piece suits. I wore towel from car to beach and was bare all day. I loved it though.
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