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Date Posted: 13:41:07 03/18/02 Mon
Author: Òðåéòÿê
Subject: ³íäóëü´åíö³ÿ?
In reply to: Ëåì 's message, "Re: í³÷îãî íîâîãî ïðî "êîð³â" íå ïî÷óâ :)" on 12:12:13 03/18/02 Mon

------ Àëå âîíè é íå ðîñ³ÿíè. Î÷åâèäíî, ñë³ä âèçíàòè, ùî öå ÿêàñü îêðåìà íàö³ÿ, ñòâîðåíà íà óêðà¿íñüêîìó åòí³÷íîìó ìàòåð³àë³ ç ï³çí³øèìè ³íøîåòí³÷íèìè äîäàòêàìè.
Òà ðîñ³ÿíè âîíè, ðîñ³ÿíè â òîìó ñåíñ³, ùî ðîñ³ÿíè=ìîñêàë³. Çà òåðì³íîëî´³ºþ ¥óì³ëüîâà ñóáåòíîñ âåëèêîãî ðîñ³éñüêîãî íàðîäó. Ïðèíàìí³ íà ñüîãîäí³.

------ âîíè çàñòèãëè íà äîíàö³îíàëüíîìó ð³âí³

òåæ â³ðíî. Îòæå, çà ñïðèÿòëèâèõ óìîâ ùå ìîæóòü íàíîâî çðîáèòèñÿ óêðà¿íöÿìè. Òàêà ñîá³ ñèðîâèíà :), ãàðÿ÷å çàë³çî - áóäü-ùî ìîæíà ñêëåïàòè: â³ä òîãî çàëåæèòü, íàñê³ëüêè òå çàë³çî ãàðÿ÷å.

------ Àãà, ñï³âè ³ íàðîäíà çàáàâà íèùåííÿ æèä³â:))) ×èì òîá³ íå åòíîãðàô³ÿ? ß æ êàæó, ùî çâåðíóâ íà êîçàê³â Øêóðî óâàãó ò³ëüêè òîìó, ùî ïîì³òèâ ïåâíó ñïàäêîºìí³ñòü ç êîçàöüêèìè òðàäèö³ÿìè (êîíêðåòíî éäåòüñÿ ïðî ñïîñ³á âáèâñòâà). ×èñò³ñ³íüêà åòíîãðàô³ÿ:)

À-à, âèáà÷àé, íà õâèëèíî÷êó ïðèçàáóâ, ùî òîá³ éäåòüñÿ íàñàìïåðåä ïðî åòíî´ðàô³þ, à íå ïðî ³ñòîð³þ. Òîä³ âñå ïðàâèëüíî. Âò³ì, ö³ çàáàâè ç ê³øêàìè ìåíå íå äóæå ö³êàâëÿòü. Ïîçàÿê âáèâàëè, æîðñòîêî, à ÿê ñàìå: ñóâàëè òóäè ê³øêó ÷è ñîáàêó, êðîòà ÷è á³ëêó, òî âæå äðóãîðÿäíà ð³÷, íà ìîþ äóìêó.

------ Òè ÿêîñü äóæå çàïðîñòî ä³ëèø íà "ìîñêàë³â" ³ "óêðà¿íö³â", à ì³æ òèì, ³ñíóþòü ùå "ðóññ곺". Íå êàæó÷è âæå çà íîâîâèâåäåíèõ "êðåîë³â":)Ìîñêàëü - öå â òåáå òîé õòî çà ìîñêîâñüêó ³ìïåð³þ, óêðà¿íåöü - çà óêðà¿íñüêó ñàìîñò³éí³ñòü. À ÿê áóòè ç óêðà¿íöÿìè, ÿê³ çà îá"ºäíàííÿ ç Ðîñ³ºþ ó ðàìêàõ Êè¿âñüêî¿ ³ìïåð³¿?:) À îñü òóò ïî÷èíຠãëþ÷èòè. Íåõàé áóäóòü ìîñêî-óêðà¿íöÿìè:) À ³ñíóº ùå ìàñà àìá³ö³éíèõ óêðà¿íö³â-³ìïåð³àë³ñò³â, ÿê³ õî÷óòü æèòè ó âåëèê³é äåðæàâ³. Âîíè òåæ "ñâ³äîì³ ìîñêàë³"? ͺ, âîíè óêðà¿íö³ ç "ðóññêîé" ³äåíòèô³êàö³ºþ, ïîäîáàºòüñÿ öå òîá³ ÷è í³. Òðåáà ïðîñòî âèçíàòè, ùî óêðà¿íö³ áóâàþòü ð³çíèìè, ³ í³ òè, í³ ÿ íå ìàºìî ìîíîïî볿 íà óêðà¿íñòâî. Ìåí³ çäàºòüñÿ, òàê áóäå ïðàâèëüí³øå. Òðåáà ïðèïèíèòè êèäàòèñÿ òèìè "õîõëàìè", "ÿíè÷àðàìè" ³ "õîëóÿìè", áî íà "õîëóé Ìîñêâè" òè çàâæäè ïî÷óºø ó â³äïîâ³äü "õîëóé ÍÀÒÎ" (àáî "õîëóé Âàðøàâè", ùî ñüîãîäí³ âòðàòèëî àêòóàëüí³ñòü). Ïðîñòî ó íèõ â³äì³ííå áà÷åííÿ Óêðà¿íè ³ ¿¿ ìàéáóòíüîãî. Âîíè ÷åñíî â³ðÿòü, ùî âîíî á³ëüø ïðàâèëüíå. Òî÷í³ñ³íüêî òàê ñàìî ÿê ³ òè. Öå âñå ÷åðåç òå, ùî ôîðìóâàííÿ íàö³¿ ïðîõîäèëî ó âêðàé íåñïðèÿòëèâèõ óìîâàõ, ³ íà ñüîãîäí³ ùå íå çàâåðøåíî, çâ³äêè ³ òàê³ â³äì³ííîñò³ ó ðîçóì³íí³ "ïðàâèëüíîãî óêðà¿íñòâà".

³òàþ, ùîéíî òè âèïèñàâ ³íäóëü´åíö³þ íà ìîñêâîô³ëüñòâî òà é âçàãàë³ íà áóäü-ÿêå çðàäíèöòâî. Ìîâëÿâ, "â³äì³ííå áà÷åííÿ". Äóæå ñïîä³âàþñÿ, ùî Áîãäàí ç ï³äîï³÷íèìè ïðî÷èòàâ.

Ïîá³æíî ïî îêðåìèõ òî÷êàõ:


---- À ÿêà, âëàñíå, ð³çíèöÿ? Òàêå âðàæåííÿ, ùî òåáå çàïðîñèëè àäâîêàòîì íà ïðîöåñ, äå þäå¿ ñóäÿòü øëÿõòó:)

Ãè, íå âèñòà÷àëî ò³ëüêè, ùîáè "æèäè ñóäèëè øëÿõòó" - öå æ òðåáà òàêå óÿâèòè! :) À âò³ì, â ñó÷àñíîì ñâ³ò³ í³÷îìó âæå íå äîâîäèòüñÿ äèâóâàòèñÿ. Îñîáëèâî íàõàáíèì ä³ÿì æèä³â. Äî ðîçìîâè ïðî æèä³â âçàãàë³: âèñëîâëþâàíà òîáîþ òóò ïîçèö³ÿ ìåí³ äåùî íàãàäóº ñâîãî ðîäó ìàçîõ³çì. Âò³ì, ÿêùî ìàºø áàæàííÿ ïîäèñêóòóâàòè ñàìå ïðî æèä³â äàë³, òî ïðîïîíóþ ïî÷àòè ç ìîãî äîïèñà íèæ÷å "ïðî íåâäÿ÷í³ñòü", òà é ïðî "øêîëó Ïðèòóëÿêà" (íàðàç³ âæå â àðõ³â³) - æèäè òà ñòîñóíêè ç íèìè òî îêðåìà òåìà.

Òàê ñàìî ïðî êîçàê³â - äèâ. "êîíòðàð´óìåíòè íà êîçàöüêèé Òàë³áàí". Òàì äåòàëüí³øèé âèêëàä. À òóò, â ö³é ã³ëö³, çàëèøàºòüñÿ òðåòÿ òåìà: òâîÿ "³íäóëü´åíö³ÿ íà ìîñêâîô³ëüñòâî", "â³äì³ííå áà÷åííÿ", ðîçâèòîê íàö³îíàëüíî¿ ñâ³äîìîñò³ ³ ò.³í. Íà ì³é ïîãëÿä, âàðòóº îòàê ðîçîêðåìèòè òåìè, áî ïî âñ³ì ðàçîì âàæêî äèñêóòóâàòè - îäèí äîïèñ ïîâîë³ ïåðåòâîðþºòüñÿ ëåäü íå íà ñòàòòþ :)

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