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Date Posted: 22:16:06 07/18/01 Wed
Author: PJ
Subject: Felt the need to add that motivation/intent, of course, is important in gauging manipulation.
In reply to: PJ 's message, "Had to consult the dictionary for the definition of classy: (slang) elegant, stylish. Elegant: excellent, fine, superior. Stylish: characterized by or conforming to the present style; smart or chic. About the manipulation part, I think it's natural for women in our society to operate through manipulation. Maybe it's because women tend to focus on relationships and emotion more than men. Manipulate: to manage or influence by artful skill. Manipulation, IMHO, is not inherently bad. Any truly successfull person, male or female, is a successful manipulator...a person who can guide others to a desired outcome. It's the means and the outcome that indicate whether the manipulation was bad. Just MHO, of course...my rambling is done!" on 19:46:17 07/18/01 Wed


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[> [> [> ..."the means and the outcome..."--I like the way that you express that, PJ--I think you did a better job of explaining that than I did below. Regarding the concept of "classy", I see it as being more than just stylish. To me it also involves character; it means "not being a jerk"--that you behave toward others with a sense of decency and humanity. -- Susan W, 22:17:47 07/18/01 Wed


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[> [> [> [> ITA with you on the character part. Don't know why I'm such a "dictionary bug" these days (maybe I'm getting old). The newest dictionary I have is a 1980 edition, which is where I got the definition above for classy. Does anyone have a recent edition that might have a more modern definition for classy? Just for fun : P -- PJ, 08:12:48 07/19/01 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> Hah! My dictionary is copyright 1980 as well, so fat lot of good that'll do us. (Perhaps we should start looking for some nice retirement home living... :P) Your point is well taken about intent, means and outcome. I've always felt that the intent and means were the most important things in an action. (r) -- Shirleym, 09:36:49 07/19/01 Thu

I too, feel that character has a lot to do with the definition of "classy". Since it started out as slang, I guess the meaning has changed a lot through the years. Didn't it used to describe a "broad"? LOL As in, "That's some classy broad ya got there!". At that time, since women weren't thought of as attractive when they had as much power as men (they were thought of more as a threat) the word "classy" didn't apply to much more than the way women looked and talked. I guess now that "classy" can be used to describe men too, it's definition automatically has to involve character because men would never judge each other on looks and speech alone! ;-)

Oh boy, do I sound like a feminist or WHAT! Actually, I've never thought of myself as being one... and this is just my opinion of course. I have no idea what a current dictionary would say about the word.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Great point on the "classy broad" stuff...definately sounds plausible to me. Now I feel compeled to get an up-to-date dictionary to have around the house...will try to pick one up while I'm out today. I have never thought of myself as a feminist, either...in fact if someone used that word when describing me, I'd probably become violent LOL! Feminist has too many negative connotations associated with it, JMHO of course. 1980 definition of feminism: the doctrine advocating social and political rights for women equal to those of men. Which I am all for...guess the negative emotions I have associated with the term is related to the means and outcome associated with the most vocal of self-proclaimed feminists. -- PJ, 11:21:26 07/19/01 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Oh I sooooo agree, PJ. :-) -- Shirleym, 23:21:21 07/19/01 Thu


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