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Date Posted: 10:08:58 04/24/02 Wed
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 11:32

Yeah, you're more of a Christian than they are.

"I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his
doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing
he never claimed any other."

Some folks can't see the forest thru all the damned trees...

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 11:10

"How do you explain that?"

Yeah, you're more of a Christian than they are.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 11:06

Some things in life are earned, some are bestowed or given. Big deal, so somebody does
something nice for you or you for them. Haven't seen any laws against that as of yet. For the
most part, the receiver doesn't even pay tax on them. That's probably a bigger miracle.

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:52

Let's take, for example, those fallen lambs of the priesthood who've been in the news so much
lately. Seems to me they've been taught to believe that no matter what sin they commit, Christ
died for their sins so they will be forgiven, at least in the eyes of the Lord.

I, on the other hand, labor under no such delusions. I don't go to church, I wear no cross on a
chain about my neck, I don't pray, I don't wear a robe, I certainly haven't taken any vow of
celibacy, and I don't pretend to be a Man of God. Yet, not once in my life have I ever even
considered diddling a little boy or girl. How do you explain that?

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:33

While I consider the notion of unearned forgiveness by virtue of Christ's death patently absurd,
I still don't get the connection to Dori's wishing someone to hell, which appears to me to be a
mere figure of speech of no consequence whatsoever, unless she's a witch.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:30

Those who do don't understand the will of God for their lives.

They may well understand it better than you do. You know, if you folks would focus more on
your commonalities with the Buddhists than on your differences, you might find you have a lot
in common. But no, that's not the Christian style.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:23

All kidding aside, do you really believe that if Dori or anyone else "wishes hell on
someone," it makes one whit of difference as to whether or not that person goes to hell?

The answer to your question is long and probably would not interest you. My point to Doris
was that Christians, no matter how rotten they were, having received forgiveness from God
through the sacrifice of his son, Jesus, need to be likewise gracious and that this subject is not
one about which to jest. I also added Romans 5:8, "But God demonstrates His own love
toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us," to show where I was coming
from.

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:13

Yeah. Some folks call it Karma. LOL! Is that all you can come up with? Not up to your
standards of enlightening those of us with ossified brains.

GerryB.
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:07

RE: "Yeah. Some folks call it Karma."

Those who do don't understand the will of God for their lives.

GerryB.
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:05

I've spent enough time here this morning. BBL GLW.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 10:02

Yeah. Some folks call it Karma.

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:59

"... it makes one whit of difference as to whether or not that person goes to hell? I think
you're missing the point. No one should wish ill to other people..it has a way of
boomeranging...ever hear of the "Law of Reciprocity?"

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:49

I hope you're kidding about wishing hell on someone, but this is not a thing to kid about.

All kidding aside, do you really believe that if Dori or anyone else "wishes hell on someone," it
makes one whit of difference as to whether or not that person goes to hell?

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:42

For the record, we weren't "self-annointed." Dori coined that particular phraseology.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:30

Thank you for understanding. You shouldn't agree with me in public though. The self-anointed
"worlds smartest men" will be on your case for doing that. Hehehe

dori
In Response To Gerry
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:14

Praise God that you pulled through that ordeal, Gerry.

When my mom was in a coma for two years I prayed daily for God to give her back to us.
When He didn't, I hated Him and felt He had deserted me. I was angry because I believed the
Bible verses that told me all I had to do was believe and my prayers would be answered. I
hadn't learned the salient point you made--God does answer our prayers, but sometimes we
just don't want to hear His answer. It was many years later that I realized He was there for me
to lean on and to give me comfort--but there was no hope for my Mom. I just thank God that I
was able to still hold her and kiss her forehead for the two years she remained in the coma
instead of her dying at the scene like my step-father.

GerryB.
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:12

RE: The children in Iraq.

It is not the USA which is responsible for their deaths. If Sadam really cared about them he
could get the sanctions lifted immediately by just living up to his promises which settled that
war which he started back in 1991. He obviously doesn't care about anyone except for
himself. Any money which comes in there goes into his already bloated treasury instead of in
the bellies of the common people. He and his friends have plenty of food. It is only the people
who work for him who don't.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 9:00

That pious man knew that he had done all that he could for me. He could only leave it in the
very capable hands of God. His prayers were obviously answered because I'm here to tell
about it. I was just another lost, Hell bound sinner but God reached down and gave me back
my life. Three weeks later I left the hospital with several broken bones and a number of other
injuries to heal. To God there is no such thing as a "piddly" little prayer. We are all important to
Him.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:54

RE: "I sometimes wonder if God answers individual prayer at all. It does seem like He's too
busy keeping the planets whirling in their places to bother with piddly things like a child's
prayers. What do you think?"

He has promised in his word to hear all of our prayers and He does. He always answers.
Sometimes the answer is, "Yes", sometimes it is, "No", and sometimes the answer is, "Wait."
Whatever the answer, He always gives the right one. He is never too busy to hear or respond
to our prayers. As Inquisitive said, "If it weren't for answered prayer I wouldn't be here today."
In my case it starts in 1965 on an operating table in Cortland NY. A doctor in the emergency
room in the hospital there prayed over my almost lifeless body all night. (Continued)

dori
In Response To Coinky
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:37

Oh yes, my mean-spirited uncaring attitude comes to the fore yet once again, eh? My heart
goes out to ANY innocent child being starved or killed because of the despotic acts of its
leader. I pray for those babies to be relieved of him as their leader so they may see an end to
their suffering. If you people had kept Bush in office for the next four years, we might have
seen some stabilization to that region. Instead, we had Clinton, who let Hussein creep back
into power and let Korea get away with breaking its arms buildup restrictions, and went so far
as to invite the leader of the PLO to the White House. Please place your condemnation where
it rightfully belongs.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:36

We are to be in a position of service to God. Those that are, hear from Him and those that
hear from Him are.

Children can also serve God, but also God gave their parents responsibilities toward them. If
children neither serve God nor have parents that do, God is not obligated to them as we
humanly think He should be. Hence, all the street children in Bolivia and other places. If you
think the prayers of children should be answered, you will have to be their answer. Just as I
told Stephen James, God does not have physical hands with which to care for children or
physical feet to run to their aid. We do and He expects us to protect them and take care of
them.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:30

I only addressed this because you have shown me nothing but contempt since we first had this
discussion. I thought perhaps your concern for children would extend to the thousands of Iraqi
kids being harmed and you might see my point, but evidently I was wrong.

Gotta go. TTFN

*Coinkydink
In Response To I need to leave now
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:27

...will check back later. Although I find little inspiring about discussions of which Christians
group has more truth than the other. How about discussing God himself more and church less?

Yes, the scandals about Priest have added ammo to anti-Catholics, but that is all side-issues.
We begin to discuss why God doesn't seem to answer prayer...that is a good start to a good
discussion.

I'll be back later. TTFN

dori
In Response To Coinky
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:25

The sanctions were imposed because we defeated him in the Gulf war and he was given
certain conditions as a result. He has not lived up to those conditions and continues to defy
them. Therefore our only recourse was to place sanctions against him. It is solely on his
shoulders what happens to the people in his country. And yes, it may end up that we will be
back there finishing up the job in the near future. I pray that we take it all the way to the
conclusion this time and bomb Hussein right out of Bagdhad, whether Bernie and Andy vacate
the city or not.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 8:18

If I were God, there would be no religions, only individual people in actual touch with me. I'd
consider the prayers of children a priority.

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