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Date Posted: 06:37:31 04/25/02 Thu
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I

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The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice. Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not. --Susan
Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a backup forum. :)

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MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.
GerryB.
In Response To RonB.
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 8:22

RE: "But our society is sick."
Yes, it is sin sick. And yes, it is getting sicker all the time.

GerryB.
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 8:19

Good morning, my brother in Christ.
Ever notice the amount of venom spewed out by Stephen when he gets wound up? Seems to me that he is not really much different than the people in the snake pit. He's just on the other side of the pit is all.

Murray
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 7:04

"But hey, if you wanna pretend an Omnipotent God could not create himself a set of hands and feet for which to run around saving children from Pedophile Christians..fine!

The main original point is that you have hands and feet with which to save the children. If you would like to see them be rescued, I suggest you get busy.

Stephen James
In Response To RonB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 3:13

"But our society is sick."
Sure it is, in some aspects anyway...but is it any "sicker" than societies of the past? Do you think this society is a hundred times "sicker" than the society which supposedly lived in Sodom? Or is it relatively the same level of "sickness"?

I actually see things in our society as showing us as being much healthier than those who came before.

Stephen James
In Response To RonB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 3:05

Good morning..."What's your solution?"
Let me run things...lol

Actually, I don't have one. Unless the solution is just to realize this world changes/evolves continually and there ain't a damn thing we should do to try to stop it or point it in a direction one group or another believes is best for all...Hitler had that idea, failed miserably...just like so many before him, and those who have followed after.

It truly amazes me that there are always people who think "their way" could work best for the whole world, even if it is imposed on the world through the means most commonly used...violence. History proves over and over again what a failing thought it is...IMO

Stephen James
In Response To RonB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:52

Do you think this country would be as wealthy and strong as it is had we all been living under the constraints of Christianity for the last 225 years?
I truly believe we would be in no different of a position than any of the countries which still base many of their political policies and laws on religious beliefs and practices...that position being, mostly poor and uneducated, just like it was for many people in the middle ages under strict Christian/Catholic rule.

RonB
In Response To Stephen James
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:52

Well...what do you suggest? How do we get things back to the way it was in America 300 years ago? How do we get guys like ACNR back to making and enforcing the laws of this country again?
No, but maybe 230 years ago. Do you think that "guys like" ACNR could write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? We live in an age of extremes -- more so as time goes by. The middle, the stabilizing balance, has been abandoned and all kind of wild-eyed weirdos have been loosed on us. Some are just barking nuts (not to mention any names) others are driven to extremes trying to bring balance to society. But our society is sick. What's your solution?

Timbuctoo
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:35

Ref: "Well...what do you suggest? How do we get things back to the way it was in America 300 years ago?" ~~~ Kiss the Pope's ring and all will be well � :)
Stephen James
In Response To RonB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:23

"Our society is going to hell in a handbasket because it is no longer Christian."
Well...what do you suggest? How do we get things back to the way it was in America 300 years ago? How do we get guys like ACNR back to making and enforcing the laws of this country again?

Guys like him passed all sorts of laws persecuting non-Christians, as well as those who were not the "right kind" of Christian. And I doubt that this country could be made into a "Christian" country without the use of the fanatics...who is gonna be in charge of the termination of the unrepentant?

Timbuctoo
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:18

Ref: "These Absolutists really don't realize how often they come across as ignorant" ~~~ And there can be only one reason for that ... :)
Timbuctoo
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:14

Ref: "I do...I have yet to hear God promise me, or humanity anything." ~~~ You apparently have been denied access to the secret handshake � :)
Stephen James
In Response To Hey TB2!
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:12

Good morning to you...some people would not receive so much attention were they to add a simple "IMO" or an "I believe" before or after some of the things they say, as Ctaj suggested. These Absolutists really don't realize how often they come across as ignorant...even to their own teachings.
Funny though how Murray tries to avoid admitting his statement that God has no "physical hands or feet" totally contradicts the Jesus theory as well as the Omnipotency theory. A bit of dishonest mis-direction and the placing of a blindfold on his eyes to hide my many questions and he thinks the subject will shift to something else...not gonna let it happen. :-)

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:01

"It seems to me that God promises to bless those who trust Him, serve Him and obey Him. It almost seems like you have a beef with that."
I do...I have yet to hear God promise me, or humanity anything. All I see are a bunch of control freaks running around with a book which raises 10 times more questions than answers and their contention is that "God" wrote the thing...can they produce God to verify all this?

Of course not, and that is why after 2000 years the Bible is just another unproven religious book sitting on the shelf.

Trust, serve and obey a baby killing, mass murdering, bumbling fool of a God whose Omnipotency seems to be determined by it's own Creations? No thanks...

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 2:01

Hello Stephen ... Good to see you taking the God Murray to task ... :)
Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 1:55

Ref: "It seems to me that God promises to bless those who trust Him, serve Him and obey Him." ~~~ Pretending that there is some character by the name of God with the same attributes as Man is a popular and equitable fantasy of Man �The real good or moral value of these fantasies is always balanced be the damage caused by the same. Religions are not measured by the goodness or truth they provide � they are measured by the survivability they provide their respective cultures. All in my ignorant opinion of course � :)
Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 1:53

I said :"your the one spouting off that God has no physical hands or feet."
You said:"Which happens to be true. You embarrass yourself by making such an issue of this point instead of simply accepting it as true."

Even more embarrassing would be for me to ask you to Prove your contentions..embarrassing because you would show me the Bible as your only source of info.

But hey, if you wanna pretend an Omnipotent God could not create himself a set of hands and feet for which to run around saving children from Pedophile Christians..fine!

So much for that fable of yours about God fashioning himself an entire human body to save the whole human race..what a bunch of hogwash! The Truth is that God cannot have hands or feet, so speaks Murray the GodMaker.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 23:58

It seems to me that God promises to bless those who trust Him, serve Him and obey Him. It almost seems like you have a beef with that.
Murray
In Response To dori
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 23:52

Good point.
dori
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 23:43

By your reasoning, little children who dare to think God will hear their prayers are S.O.L. if their parents haven't indoctrinated them properly.
If their parents haven't "indoctrinated" them, it's not likely they will be praying, is it? LOL!

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 23:41

So, what we have here is a system of morals and ethics that teaches no matter how great the evil you commit, there's always an escape clause that can get you to eternal life in heaven. Any you people wonder why society is going to hell in a handbasket...
Our society is going to hell in a handbasket because it is no longer Christian.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 23:09

Indoctrinated to serve God? You can't be indoctrinated to serve Him. It must emante from your heart.
*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 22:51

By your reasoning, little children who dare to think God will hear their prayers are S.O.L. if their parents haven't indoctrinated them properly. I should have known this when I was little...I'd have saved myself a lot of hoping for naught.
On another subject, you said, "But, if God really is a good God and Father and has the power to forgive, why wouldn't he?" Obviously, from your own words, he is NOT a "Good God and father", but a selectively benevolent one, even to children ... which trait, if he were human, would be "inhumane", Satanic, even.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 18:34

Dig up "Fevre Dream". Martin's vampires make mincemeat of Anne Rice's. That's a novel, not a short story.
`Ctaj
In Response To Ten Megaton Solution
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 18:27

BTW, I finished The Sandkings today, my first venture into Microsoft Reader. Bought it from Amazon.com for $1.99. Great story!
Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Ctaj
Wednesday April 24, 2002 at 18:23

Maybe Murray watches "Crossing Over with John Edwards" on the SciFi Channel.

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