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Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Earl [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2025, 04:25: pm In reply to: James 's message, "Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa" on Tuesday, December 02, 2025, 07:32: pm Someone had written about having their physical examination to enter the army and it was close enough to what my exam was like, that I didn't feel I had anything to add by telling my experience. However I can't find that message anywhere now so I will add my own story of what it was like. The part of the physical of interest, was the part of the test that had to do with the hernia and hemroid(I know that is spelled wrong,) but you know what I'm talking about. We were lined up, nude, about twenty of us in a line. A glass divider was about eight feet away and ran the length of the examining room. Behind the divider was three people dressed in what appeared to be white medical gowns, for a better word. There was two females and one male and they each had a clipboard. Two more people, who I assumed were doctors, also wearing the same kind of white gowns were in the room with us. One was a female and the other was male. All of these people were of a nondescript nature. Not old, not young, just people. The female started by doing the hernia test. She stood along side of us and reached down and did the pressure thing and said cough. Following about three people behind, the male doctor had us turn around and spread our cheeks and he checked us for hemroids. It was ok as that seemed like a fair way of doing the exam without to much embarrassment. What was not so ok, was the fact that a young lady in civilian clothes came in and handed one of the observers a folder with a paper on top. While the onserver read the paper and then signed it, the young lady quite openly, checked out each of us and she was openly staring at our genitals. This happened once more with a different young lady. A couple, or maybe more, reached down and waved their penises at them. Some of the guys were either erect or semi erect so the young ladies had plenty to stare at. That was just the start of a lack of privacy in the army. I doubt that when the W.A.C.s entering the army had any kind of situation where men just kind of casually walked in and had a look at them. Maybe kindd of weak but still a double standard. That's all. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchy ( happy) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Monday, December 15, 2025, 05:38: am thank you very much "Earl" for the relation of your army physical examination at entrance in the army. The presence of women was not really surprising at young men exam even if it could be embarrassing to be naked in front of them. The lack of privacy at the physical examinations to enter in the army was the rule in many countries. it was like usual a group exam and you know certainly that it was very common in a recent past in some countries like Russia and many eastern countries where most of the medical staff (doctors, nurses,or even clerical staff) were women and sometimes young girls who could see each day of examination a lot of young draftees (and sometimes volonteers) stark naked and for a long time. In your relation, you said that you were naked in a line with a glass divider behind you where there was three persons wearing white medical gowns with clipboards and among them two women,I must say that I don't understand why there were not in the exam room to take notes, their presence behind a glass divider did not give you more privacy and respect of intimacy, it would have been more easy for them to be inside the room like you and watch from very close your exams, and it would have been more logical ! And the fact that they were looking at you behind a glass divider was a little ridiculous, it was like if you were animals at a zoo! I have not understoofd if the doctors instructed to you to face the glass when they inspected your genitals so that the observers could see them to take notes ? and when you were instructed to turn around and spread your cheek's butts for a check of hemorroids if you had your assholes visible from them or just your front ? As regards the woman doctor, nothing to say, it was common in some countries and was rather unavoidable since more and more women entered in the army at least at medical jobs, it was becomen rather abnormal in a certain way if you were not examined at least by by one woman doctor and one female nurse who were ( and it is still more true now ) much more numerous than men ! The entrance of two young ladies in civilian clothes in the space behind the glass dividers where the observers were looking at you to put folders with papers to them while you were exposed naked and had your genitals examined, or worse when you were bending with cheeks of the butts spread to show your anus areas for the check of hemorroids was certainly less understandable, but in your relation, it seems rather casual even if the young ladies were enjoying obviously the spectacle of young men naked ( it was less boring for young secretaries than to work all the day behind a desk in an office ! ) and it could have been worst if they had comen in the exam room to make the doctors sign papers which could have certainly happen also ! Anyway as I have already said, it was apparently common for draftees in the eastern countries to be seen naked in the corridor before entering in an exam room or even during their exams by civilan secretaries or even administrative women when thre was a report in the nude in front of a kind of draft board commission to decide officially of their fitness to military service and of their assignment ( some women could be members of the draft boaard commission ). It has now been changed but it had been for a long time the rule in many countries until recent years, especially when there was still a mandatory military service. Cleaning women could also be walking in corridors with a lot of young men naked or coming to clean the back of an exam room during the exams of naked draftees. Of course what happened for draftees could also happen in countries where there was only volonteers to entry at the army, it was the same lack of privacy anyway. Even in occidental countries like Germany,there was a lot of relations of physical examinations of draftees until the military service was suppressed in recent years, and quite all the young draftees of 18 age related their embarrassment to be examined naked "but alone " in the last exam room of the medical journey by two women, a woman doctor assisted by a woman nurse or medical secretary. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchie " happy" [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Monday, December 15, 2025, 11:31: am you can find an interesting video on you tube from the national television in Mongolia (which was until two decades or a little more stil a state of the URSS) showing the examination of draftees. All the process is edited on a national TV for all public, it is commented on the film by a woman journalist which certainly explained to the audience at home was is the set up and how it is carried on and questioned also a few authorities. We can see that a lot of young men about 18 to 20 age certainly are gathered in a huge gym, they are all undressed until underwears only and supervised by some non commissioners officers and female nurses, often apparently rather young, and most of the medical staff is of female gender. They went from a station to an other, at each station there is one or two women behind a desk, at some stations it seems that there is a check of papers or a register, at others a part of the medical exam, they stayed in underwears all the time even for admistrative tasks and are exposed to the view of a lot of women all ages, even young girls, who are nurses or have admisnistrative tasks, but most of the women wear white lab clothes. the medical stations seem to be open to the view except for intimate exams which are performed behind a partition or curtails. I don't remember if we see if the doctors are wommen or men for that part of the exam. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchie ( happy) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Monday, December 15, 2025, 12:22: pm "JIM " and others who put messages about double standard at swimming pools with nudity for the boys and not for girls. Of course, it seems strange for young persons of today and they do not believe in first hand that it was true, but if they try to read more about it, there is no doubt, it happened on some states ( not all ) in the United States and among the states at some school district and lasted until the middle of the 60's, sometimes longer. It happened a little also in Great Britain or Scotland and stopped also at the middle of 60's. It happened obviously (we have a lot of relations on forums, or on newspapers and also some photos which seem true - it was not a make up!) at most YMCA swimming pools, and very often for swimming lessons at schools too, at middle school as well as at high school. The nudity for all the boys was the rule for swimmming lessons, not only for swimming teams. There was even a swimming test in the nude for young freshmen students at some universities of the Ivy League, and it lasted a long time before being suppressed. You can find mention of it on internet. So you can consider that it was true that boy's students might swim in the nude, but were they alone or with girls classmates clothed in swim suits ? It is more difficult to know what was the reality, but it might have happened in some schools at least at middle schools that there was mixed lessons with boys naked and girls in swim suits, and anyway it was obvious that the girls could have very often a view on boy's students naked because of a mess on the schedule of lessons, as it is said often, the class of girls entered in the swimming pool before the boys were gone out of the swimming pool, or on the reverse the girls were still in the swimming pool when the boys came naked in line for their roll call. So it happened certainly incidentally more than one time! Besides, it was obvious also that since girls students knew that boys students were naked, they tried to have a glance on them by spying when it was possible, the curiosity is a permanent human feeling especially when the sight is normally forbidden. The girls students could try to have a look by windows if they were not closed or by the doors if they left a space to look or by going to the Pe office if it gave a view on the swimming pool. I believe that if girls were caught to have spied boys students during swimming lessons, they were certainly reprimanded by their female teachers but not strongly, not like if it had been the reverse. As regards the audience of women and girls stitting on benches,I believe that it was less frequent, above all for high school students, but may be at schools and YMCA swimming pools, with small kids or male students at middle schools, it could have been possible that mothers or older sisters or any other female sibling were allowed to come to wait the end of the lessons before going back at home with their sons and in that case there could have been also sisters of all ages sitting with the mothers or siblings to look at the swimming lessons of boys in the nude including the awkward roll call. I doubt that it could have happened later at high school. As regards interscholastic meets, I presume that it was possible that an audience of families was allowed but certainly not everywhere. Don't forget that the attitude about nudity of boys was not the same at that time, until the middle of 60's, than now, they had no right to privacy and their nudity was not a big deal, except it was offensive for women and girls. If female members of a family came to a swimming meet where boys were naked, it meaned that they did not felt offensive by the budkity of the boys because they knew that the boys would be naked .. so why not ! And at least what about a substitute female teacher for boys students if a male teacher was ill ? I believe that it could happen in most schools especially without any question at middle school, may be less easily ay high school but I doubt also that a middle aged female Pe teacher had refused if she was told to do it, they were certainly used to see boys swimming in the nude even if they were not their teachers , by the view from their office and anyway it was not a big deal to see boys in the nude when you were a marture adult woman at that time. Of course it was different for a new and young teacher having just graduated like in your relation but it was a special case ! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Earl [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2025, 12:52: am to; Jean the Frenchie. My recollections of the physical examination I received entering the army was done many years ago. My memory could be wrong due to bad memory or dreams that made it more fun to remember. I bow to your reasonable explanation that the glass divider probably wasn't there at all. I do remember quite well the young ladies coming out and starring at our genitals in a quite openly manner. As usual, the messages you shared was quite interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchie ( happy) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2025, 04:56: am "Earl" thank you for your answer . As regards your relation and the presence of a glass divider, I am wondering if it would not have been more understandable if it had been rather a huge window without curtains where the three women observers, for instance young ladies of the administrative staff or female non commissioners oficers, were only walking in the space behind the window without any task to do, may be with folders at their hands to put them in an other room but not clipboards to take notes, and would have stopped to look at the examination of the naked recruits by curiosity and for enjoyment and of course without being told by the doctors to go away! They could be here to look also because they had been informed that there would be that day at that hour an exam of young men and they would not miss the spectacle. As regards my questions, you have not answered about the view of the examination of private parts for the observers : "I have not understood if the doctors instructed to you to face the glass when they inspected your genitals, so that the observers could see them to take notes ? and when you were instructed to turn around and spread your cheek's butt for a check of hemorroids if you had your back face to the glass divider, so that your asshole was visible from them, or if it was just your front ? One of the best part of your recollection of young men physical examination at the army is the coming of two young ladies and their interest for your naked bodies! Apparently it is one of your strong remember of that physical examination. I understand you very well on that point ! It is a perfect exemple of the double standard between the respect of the privacy of the two genders I am glad that it could be discussed on that discussion because Voyforoum had supppressed other discussions where that subject was treated. As regards swimming in the nude which is the suject which is more often discussed, the truth of some relations is no more questionable (the newspapers of that period can be easily read ) the question of mixed lessons with girls and that of an audience of families at swimming meets is less obvious, even if it is in my opinion enough documented to be considered as true at least partially. Same for substitute women Pe teachers at swimming lessons for boys, and they might also supervise the locker rooms and mandatory showers in that case which could of course never happen for a male Pe teacher and girls students. But thre was other cases of double standard such as mandatory physical examinations at school and for sport. We knew that the group exam especially at exams forsport ws often the rule for boy's students even at colleges while it might be very seldom for girl students whom privacy was much more respected. We knew also that there was often a medical staff composed of women : doctors, nurses and sometimes also medical secretaries or female members of the school staff or even volonteers mothers to help. ( it would have been considered as completely inappropriate to ask to fathers to help at the examination of girls and anyway they were not available since they worked ) And in my opinion it could also happen when there was a mess on the schedules like for swimming lessons so that a class of girls or the girls of a mixed class could have a view on the boys waiting already undressed to be examined, it could happen accidentally or incidently because there was not a real concern of the authorities about such situations.The exposure of a boy student undressed until underwears or even stark naked was not a big deal like it would be today ! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Earl [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2025, 08:07: pm Jean the Frenchie. Remembering the army physical. I believe the reason we faced the glass "window" was lack of room behind where we were lined up. It seems as though the nwall was only maybe 2 feet behind us. Also, all of the lighting came from the side with the window. We were marched in, single file, thru one door,examined, and marched out thru a door at the other end. Nothing in the room except us recruits and the 2 people doing the exam. It might have been a hallway at one time. Just the ends blocked off and doors put in. Having read the messages about the male nude swimming, I can believe that mothers coming to pick up their sons from swimming lessons could have observed the boys swimming naked. Also any children, girls included, would have been allowed to come inside out of the summer heat. I have in mind a swimming pool with an 8 foot cement walkway around it with a 8 foot high wire fence with bleachers behind it. This is the way our swimming pool was set up when I was a kid. Wehad people in the bleachers, sometimes just to watch, but there was no nude swimming done. Except when we snuck in late at night. That was when we were in high school and it was nude co-ed swimming. It was dark enough to keep a little bit of modesty, and some panties and bras were worn. But not by all. That was in the sixties and I don't remember any talk of nude swimming done at our pool. I can remember women teachers who were our P.E. teacher coming into the dressing room after P.E. class and hurrying us along because we were taking to long to get dressed. That was during my fourth, fifth and sixth grades. All of us would make a mad scramble to cover up with a towel or something. No one felt comfortable being seen naked by a female teacher. I have to wonder about the boys who weren't bothered by that situation that they could continue to walk around naked in front of a female teacher. I was much to embarrassed to walk around like that in front of my mother, much less some teacher. Enough from me. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Earl [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2025, 08:25: pm To Jean the Frenchie; In the "thread"? PHYSICAL EXAMS REQUIRED FOR SCHOOL OR SPORTS, James, on Dec. 19th wrote you a message that was quite good. He asked you several questions that I would like to hear the answer too. Nothing to personal, I don't believe. If it's not to personal, please share. I'm a slow typist, and I'm trying to save me some time. O.K.? Good reading your post as usual. Thanks, Earl [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: William [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, December 24, 2025, 07:32: am I read with much interest the messages about nude swimming at the "Y" and the reason being that the suits worn by men were made of wool and the fibers pugged the pool filter and also the wool harbored bacteria and germs that couldn't be washed out without destroying the suit. The women wore suits of cotton and that fabric could be washed with super hot water and didn't lose fibers. So, they were able to wear swim suits whereas men couldn't. This may be a really dumb question but, why couldn't the men wear swim suits made of cotton as the women did? The answer could be obvious, but I can't see it, Help me out someone, please. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Tim [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Saturday, December 27, 2025, 08:48: pm I remember some of my physical taken before entering the army, but I don't remember it well. I remember one woman wearing an officers dress uniform who just watched everything and didn't seem to have any job in particular, All recruits moved from station to station getting different parts of the exam done. There seemed to be no shortage of young women in army uniforms moving about as we had our exams done. Most of the hands on part of the physical was done by females. Female nurses in the service are officers. So are the doctors. It's hard to tell the difference unless you can see their name tags. That will usually let you know if it is a M.D. or a nurse. A lot of the females were just clerks, as was indicated by sleeve rank. A few male doctors but most of the work was done by females. And, most of the exam was done while we were naked. That was in 1964. No room for modesty. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Tim [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Wednesday, January 21, 2026, 04:02: pm I have experience of a sort about being looked at by a female but no vice versa. I have a sister who is nine years older than I am, and since I was a baby she has taken care of me as much as a mother normally would. She bathed me, changed my diapers and all of that stuff. My mom worked two jobs and that's the way we lived. Even after I had reached ten years old my sis still walked in on me when I was in the shoer or just getting out. I wouldn't try to cover up. Now, two things that I think is odd. One; I wasn't as casual about nudity in front of my mother. I would cover up if she came into the bathroom while I was naked. I was embarrassed to be seen naked by her. Two; My sis was always a prude when I happened to walk in on her when she was half dressed. I would get yelled at. She told me that when I was little she got in the tub with me, but I don't remember it. Both of those things seem odd to me. My sister still walked in on me after I was in high school. Kind of a double standard, I think. Another thing, we were the only two kids in the family. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: Wiley [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2026, 02:00: am to Tim I think you belong to a group of us who could be known as little brothers. My sis who is eight years older than me, never bothered giving me any kind of privacy when I was growing up. I don't think she ever changed my diaper when I was little, but I think she watched my Mom do it. Anyway she never bragged about doing it. She never bathed me, or dressed me when I was little. None of the things that make them think they have the right to treat you as if you were their personnel toy. My sister would walk in on me when I was in the shower even after she was grown and moved away. She would walk into my bedroom without knocking even when I was fourteen years old. She walked in on me one time when I was playing with an erection. I started to cover up, and changed my mind. I kept on slowly jacking off and asked her if she wanted something. She said, only to watch you. She watched for maybe a few seconds and left. She walked in on me in the shower not long after that and I started working on an erection while looking at her, and she just left. That was the last time she walked in on me. She wasn't into anything sexual I guess. Maybe, I don't know. I guess I don't know why I resented her intrusions. I guess it was rude of me to do what I did. Oh well. I'm twenty four years old and I wonder if she would still be doing it if I hadn't exposed myself like I did. Probably. So Tim, I think it happens to a lot of younger brothers. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchie (MARCHAND) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Friday, February 06, 2026, 08:13: am " Tim" I find rather odd that in the Us 1964 there was so much females among the persons who were present for your physicals examinations for the army. I presume that it was during the Vietnam War and that you were an unfortunate draftee at that time, which meaned that the respect of privacy and modesty was very few for you and all other draftees, which explains your exposure in the nude to women clerks and secretaries who had no reason to be present and to watch your exam or see you standing naked in corridors or by windows without curtains. May be some were doing an admistrative job to check the indentity of the draftees and the set up was to do it while the draftees were were already naked or a few xere coming in the exam room to send letters or forms to the medical persons. I presume that there could be also a shortage of male persons to conduct the examinations and instead the hiring of girls and women under contract with the army. It was certainly the case for most of the women doctors and nurses. There was not enough males to perform all the exams in an efficient and quick way and it explains why there was so much medical women present. When you are a lot of draftees naked and a lot of women to watch at you, it began more funny than traumatising in my opinion ! not the same as if you had been alone ! Anyway it was the same in other countries such as Sovietic Union, URSS. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: double standard women observing unclothed men but not vice versa Author: jean the frenchie ( happy) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Friday, February 06, 2026, 10:17: am to "Earl " in a recent message you said that you would like that I give answers to James message on the thread " physical exams for school and sport " you write that his massage was on december , is it right?, I have already answered to his first message so I presume that it is the second edited on the 22 december? But I don't see any questions he is just relating that he has read stories by Knut Hol on an other forum or that of Lady Bird I have checked and the forum had ben delayed I cannot do anything to restore it ! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]