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Subject: Some Random Thoughts (Part 3)


Author:
Gary
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 10:32:15 GMT"

I bumped into one of our star players from this season a couple of days ago and we had a brief but illuminating conversation. I'm not going to give his name but unfortunately he will not be with us next year as he is off to 'better himself' at a Premiership club.

It was interesting to get his perspective on Moseley and where we are in the great scheme of things. One of his comments that stuck in my mind was his view that finishing 8th in the league would have been like winning the league based on our current resources. He referred to our portakabins and, as we must surely know, this must create a less than imposing site to prospective recruits.

I got the impression from him that some players simply see Moseley as a place to come and get some first team action before progressing their careers elsewhere (and who can blame them). He also thought that Moseley had been exceptionally good at picking up players in this category.

I guess I conclude the following from this brief conversation:-

If we are to progress, the club's physical infrastructure needs to be better whether it is a 5,000 seater stand or a more modest initial construction.

I have no idea how the club's recruitment of players works but, bearing in mind our limited budget, we must heap praise on the coaches and others who have found players whether at the start or towards the end of their careers who have kept us where we are for the last few years.

This will continue until we break out of our bottom 4/6 position. If we want to make the breakthrough and become a top 6 club we will need to support the planned developments (whether we agree with every detail or not) or we will be consigned to remaining a bottom 4 club facing a struggle every year.

I've no idea who is involved in the process of appointing a new coach but I for one would like someone with a bit more ambition than simply aiming to keep us out the bottom 4. With that in mind the package on offer needs to include a vision of the future which a new coach can buy into.

While I'm on the subject of a new coach can we get someone please who can communicate with the supporters. Ian Smith may have been a great coach but his communication skills with supporters was virtually non existent. On the subject of Ian Smith and regardless of my reservations about him I thought he deserved some sort of presentation/vote of thanks etc at last Saturdays game.

If there is a vision to move the club forwards it requires everyone to work together and to 'buy into it'. The head coach will be seen as the public face of the club and we badly need someone who can pull together all sections of the club.

My apologies for rambling on! Just some randon thoughts following my chat with one of our (soon to be former) stars.

By the way what a charming man - best wishes to him for the future.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Some thoughts on your thoughts


Author:
occasional observer
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 13:17:30 GMT"

Well that player would see Moseley as a transit camp wouldnt he because that's just what he's doing! One season and he's off! His views may be coloured buy where he was before. Doesn't mean that most players see Moseley that way or that his views are the same as them. The transients never have, arent and never will be the heart of a Moseley team.

Seems to me to be a bit of myth that our only objective is finishing 8th. I dont think it is but it must be the FIRST objective of every coach in our division each season. Point is that under the current silly system, finishig 8th means you are playing for promotion to the premiership, but one place lower at 9th and your fighting to keep out of league TWO divisions below. That is a deadly gap and that is why eigth is so important to every club and not just ours. (read other clubs message boards if you dont think that's the case)

And he should realy have a look at some other club;s facilities in this league if he thinks ours are unattractive! OK were hes come from may be better but at least we have a home and facilities now which peole with short memories may not remember were not there only a short while ago. And we have plans to improve them and some separate cash to do this.

As to the stand as it was explained to me, the model is Exeter. They had poor facilitites and gates in the 00's at the old racecourse ground. They sold it buit a new grond and stand at Sandy Park and hey presto gates rose to the 000's and income went up about ten times! What some may not get is, like Exeter, the stand is there to build up income all the year round and not just on the 18 odd match days. Whats available inside is more important for this then the number of seats stuck on one slanting side outside!

"and we badly need someone who can pull together all sections of the club". Where does that come from? I didnt know there was a problem! Is there? From what I'm told there are systems in place and at least Moseley operates as one club. One person who farily recently got involved in the club's admin told me he was amazed just how much work goes on behind the scenes at Moseley and how much effort many people put in. So this must leave them wondering!

I enjoy your posts Gary so thought you woundt midn some comments.

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[> [> Subject: Random thoughts


Author:
Red&Black Pear
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 14:08:28 GMT"

Occasional Observer,

How do you know that the player who is being referred to has only been with us for one year? And what's the problem with giving players a shop window to improve themselves anyway? It means we get to see some truly excellent players in Red & Black.
Whose facilities are worse than ours? Currently I can only think of London Welsh but they've been rank for years. The stand, the format of which is a separate argument, will be a major factor in how Moseley develops and it will mean a reduced reliance on "Portakabin City" but the paths need work, the Yardley Wood road car park (the one inside the crash barrier) is a disgrace and we really could use some toilets at the top end of the ground!
Anyway, just my thoughts.
R&BP

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[> [> [> Subject: more thoughts on thoughts


Author:
occasional observer
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 15:24:57 GMT"

R&BP - 'cos Id heared the same from someone else! Also there's only one saying those things who would be premerieship bound. I didnt say we shouldnt have players to come here to improve themselves just that they dont form the core of our team so I dont see it being any different from other years and nothing that cant be dealt with.

I like our clubhouse and thnk its much better than others. Yes the ground needs a bit of work here and there but where's the money coming from for this and would you rather it be spent on players or upgarding the coaching team even if it was there? Directors know about ground work needed coming in, Ive seen them parking cars and picking up litter there but why do a lot of upgraiding when cost could be wasted when the stand goes up?

Other clubs - been to Bedford? What they got? Smaller older clubhouse, portabain gym. Bees, car park really much better there? LW - you've coevered. Pirates even. Notts - who wants a soleless football stadium? Roth What I'm saying many of the older clubs have places needing work but I dont see them much different from ours. There'll all good rugby clubs with warm rugby welcomes but are they that different from us? Arent there toilets as you come in off Yardley Wood Road gate? I'm just happy we have a home!

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[> [> [> [> Subject: more thoughts on more thoughts


Author:
Red&Black Pear
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 15:58:52 GMT"

Fairy Nuff OO, your points are well made but its nice to have someone come back with a reasoned argument for a change.

Pretty much academic for me anyhow as I wont be renewing my sesaon ticket in August - lots of reasons, but cost young family, travel are the main ones - so won't be around for anything other than the odd game. Any rugby i di watch will be 10 minutes away from home and (hopefully!) in Nat 2.

R&BP

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: shame


Author:
occasional observer
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 18:14:18 GMT"

Sorry you wont be there but would be good when you can. We can have a beer. Im a majour contributor to the profis at the real ale bar!

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[> [> Subject: players


Author:
mosley-man
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 15:40:59 GMT"

players will always use the club as a stepping stonme and think this should be enouraged, as it shows we can help develop a player and will attract a certain standard of players. When the ground/facilities improve and more money is pumped in the club will achieve better league positions thats when these playuers might think about staying.

All players will want to be fully pro and play at the highest level, and until we have the better facilities and we are closer to the top of the league then we cant blame players for wanting to make the move.

More money will come to the club if the new stand is built and run as a business, With Exeter they have Sandy Park as a conference centre first and a clun second, so Sandy park pays for itself, this is a business model we must mirror.

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[> [> [> Subject: watcher must be Alan Adam!


Author:
jimbo
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Date Posted: "Thu, Apr 21 2011, 21:48:15 GMT"

Anyone else get the impression that the watcher sounds just like Alan Adam?

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[> [> Subject: We are no Exeter !


Author:
jonnoisgod
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 15:57:47 GMT"

When will people stop using Exeter as a model for Moseley . Bham is a football city , Exeter is in the hotbed of rugby , South West ,the gate for the Worcs game wasnt even 2000 , as for conference facilities , competing with central Bham will always be very hard . With Worcs , Tigers , Gloucester , so close , and giving Prem rugby , once again Mose will struggle . Im afraid rugby is about ,the haves , and the havenots , nowadays ,and each season with a Worcs , Leeds , or Newcastle coming down makes it even tougher .

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[> [> [> Subject: Business Model


Author:
moseley-man
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 16:17:21 GMT"

thats why i suggested that we run the new stand as a business/conference centre first. That will make money and pay for the running of the stand, that will then free up other cash for the rugby side to try and make up for the loss of supporters

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Quite right moseley man


Author:
watcher
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 18:07:24 GMT"

From the presentations I've seen that's precisely the plan and apparently what's demanded by funders! They want something self financing which will not just be another white elephant. As well as conferencing I understand the plan would be to have training, banqueting and oither adctivities in it 365 days of the year as anoter poster above has mentioned. The surplus from that would then flow through to the playing side.

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[> [> [> Subject: Just so wrong johnnoisgod


Author:
watcher
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 18:00:31 GMT"

How wrong can you be "jonnisigod". Never heard of Exeter City Football Club? Pymouth Albion, Bristol City or Bristol Rovers or Leicester City (Gordan Banks, Peter Shilton, Gary Linneker all played for Leicester and Martin O'Neil has been the manager)? As Moseley Matters constantly reminds us there are more people in just the City of Birmingham at 1.08 million people(and that's not even counting the Greater Birmingham conurbation of over 3.5 million!)than there are in the COMBINED total for the towns/cities of Leicester, Bristol, Gloucester, Worcster and Bath!!!! Worcester itself has of less than 100,000! There's more than enough population capacity in and around Birmingham to support teams at the top of all the major sports in the country. The Gt Birmingham RFU is a big part of the North Mids RFU which has two representatives on the RFU Council becasue of its size so there is plenty of rugby interest in the Birmingham area despite what you say.

Also I'm not sure you how old you are but past history goes against your theory. Before professionalism Moseley's gates were at least on a par wth Gloucester, Leicester, Bristol and Bath and some people in the club will tell you that about 25 years ago our membership was double that of Leicester's! Our big gates against Coventry and even Welsh clubs were considerbaly more, regularly getting 4,000 crowds for Boxing Day and couple of thousand people even then for Newport and others. The Sam Doble game drew 8,500 and the All Blacks around 1971 over 11,000! By the way, my sources at the club tell me that the Worcester gate this season was 2,437 and that last season Coventry beat that figure twice and Bees neared it twice. Northampton was over 3,500 depite dreadful weather and even Launceston game in the old National League 2 had a gate of 2,200! So bang goes another of your theories!

Do you really not think that if the RFU facilities management people, the city council and all the experts involved at the club are wrong and you are right if this whole thing was not doable or the right thing to do? In fact you are also wrong on another point. Birmingham does not have many facilities which could accommodate over 500 people for a sit down function. Not many cities do and there is a demand for that. Our stand would meet that as well.

What we need are better facilities and to "produce the product off the park as well as on it" which I have often heard quoted. Then the issues around the ground which have rightly in my view been raised will have been addressed. You just cannot expect even diehards to turn up week in and week out in poor facilities.

You are right about thing though. Exeter is not comparable with Moseley. Moseley in Birmingham has far greater capacity and potential and its facility will be even bigger! The challenge at the moment is not validity of the game plan or the accuracy of the vision for providing the facilities, it is meeting the effect of the current most severe financial mess in the country and the slashing of previously available grant streams and funding. I am sure the management will get there and get these funds eventually be added to existing finds for the stand which are ring fenced from the club's other activites. It has produced miracles in the past to get us where we are now. The "impossible" will just take a bit longer that's all!

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[> [> Subject: Career Players


Author:
Sorrento
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Date Posted: "Thu, Apr 21 2011, 7:57:50 GMT"

If you look back to the start of the season, there was one new recruit who stated that he joined Moseley because "a year in the Championship" was the right thing in his career development. Without having any inside information, I would n't expect to see him with us next season. I have n't seen him give less than 100% in any game this season.

Any young player with talent who has ambitions to make his way in the game will take any opportunities for advancement - as in any career.

I think that the coaches, generally, have done a great job in replacing these transient players with others of similar pedigree. My worry this Summer, as in every other, is whether they will be able to do it again.

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[> Subject: player


Author:
London Exile
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 14:01:10 GMT"

I guess it's only a matter of time before we find out who you were talking to Gary.

Just one question, do you think he will mind you posting the contents of what a appears to be a private, but informal chat in such a public place?

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[> [> Subject: Who is it & who else is going??


Author:
Need to know
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Date Posted: "Wed, Apr 20 2011, 16:18:06 GMT"

Who is it??

& who else will be going ????

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[> Subject: Thanks


Author:
Gary
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Date Posted: "Thu, Apr 21 2011, 9:22:25 GMT"

Some interesting responses which I appreciate as they help me to see different perspectives. Some I agree with and some I don't but I think the airing of different views in a constructive way is really healthy and hopefully produces a better club in the end!

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