- Question -- Bonnie (curious), 17:47:46 09/19/08 Fri
This came up in one of Liz's posts: about her former husband possibly being exposed to sexual/emotional abuse as a child. I wonder if anyone knows anything about the link to future behavior. My former husband's sister was sexaully abused by an extended family member. I know my husband was not given unconditional love by his parents and has a very superficial relationship with his father. To say his mother is overbearing is to say it nicely. He was not close to his siblings (2 brothers and 1 sister) while we were married and the whole family is kind of dysfunctional (I know, what family isn't?)and rather unpleasant. Since I left him, my husband is spending much more time with his mother and I've noticed his behavior is changing. He has always been super controlling, manipulative, and slightly paranoid. He keeps many secrets related to his sexuality and other things. He exaggerates and has an inflated image of his power and importance. All of these traits seem to be amplified since I left. I am familiar with narcissistic personality disorder; my husband seems to fit the profile to a large extent.
I guess I am curious if others here have had similar experiences with their exes being controlling, manipulative, etc, and if this is part of the "secret." Also, I heard a claim that child sexual abuse is linked to sexual orientation. I don't believe this as I think people are born gay but it seems some feel otherwise.
Bonnie
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- Decision -- Sarah, 11:20:23 09/12/08 Fri
Thank you so much for your responses, they gave me some much needed clarity. After reading them and the range of opinions in them regarding my situation, I've realized that I don't want such an important element of my life to be something that can generate such a range. I'm tired of convincing myself that its fine, I'm tired of convincing myself that he is the exception, and I've realized that even if he actually is, I can't take the chance that he might not be.
My current problem is our living situation: I can't afford our apartment on my own. The lease ends at the end of March, and until then I'm not going to say anything. The fact is, I'm still very much in love with him and I'm not quite ready to let him go, so I think this time will allow me some closure before I end it. I go back to the apartment tomorrow (I've been visiting family the past couple weeks) and honestly, I'm scared because I think seeing him again might melt my resolve. I think we still will try couples counseling because I think it'll help me with closure and I think it would help him discover some things about himself. But still, fear is my main emotion at this moment.
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- "Gay Husbands's Weblog" -- Liz, 19:59:19 09/15/08 Mon
Hello All,
Today I found a blog on the internet that some may find interesting. The blog is "Gayhusbands's Weblog; Support for the Other Man involved with a married gay man. Straight wives in denial of their husband secret lifestyle or infidelity, involved with a same-sex partner."
Here is the url address: http://gayhusbands.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/power-of-fear-leading-to-closeted-gay-bi-married-husbands/
Liz
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- An interresting article -- Anna, 14:15:48 09/16/08 Tue
I found an article that I liked.
Sort of.
It gives an opinion (other than fear) of why gay/bi men marry straight women.
well, here it is:
http://www.joekort.com/articles85.htm
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- Desperately In Need of Advice -- Sarah, 16:10:47 09/10/08 Wed
I've found myself in a very confusing situation and I would greatly appreciate any advice/opinions anyone could offer. I'm a 20 year old college student who currently lives with her boyfriend of just over a year and a half. I returned home from work in early August to find my boyfriend acting strangely when he greeted me at the door. While he was in the bathroom, I invaded his privacy (separate issue that I'm working on) and checked his internet history, on which I found a gay porn site. When I confronted him about it, he said he was looking at profiles of guys who claim to be straight but post pictures on gay porn sites as part of research for an article he was working on. After I pushed, a couple days later he showed me the notes for the article and the beginning of a draft.
The problem is, I don't know whether I should believe him. On the one hand, this isn't the first non-mainstream topic (I don't mean to be insulting in any way, I just mean its unexpected) that he has explored for his writing and we do have a pretty good sex life. On the other hand, its a topic that he himself chose and in the end, the simple fact is he was on a gay porn site. He has agreed to go to couples counseling with me, has sworn he has no sexual interest in men, and says he wants to be with me forever. However, part of me seriously questions continuing the relationship when I might end up having a constant fear that years down the line, after marriage and kids, he might decide he is gay after all. I've been doing a lot of reading on the topic of people who find out their partners are gay, however I haven't read of a situation where the partner claims to be doing research for writing and based on previous history could actually mean it. Any kind of feedback would be immensely helpful during this difficult time in my life. Thank you
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- Day two of not talking to you -- S, 00:41:02 09/12/08 Fri
Needing to share my thoughts
Today I got up and ran. I ran with urgency. Wanting to distance myself from what is happening. Wanting to find strength to know that I can move forward and to know that I can direct my life. Wanting to prove to myself that I will not drown face down in a pool of tears. Needing to trust that I won’t be broken forever. It’s 8pm. I have searched the forums and support groups for Straight women of gay partners. Is this me? I think it is but I don't want to. You keep telling me that it is not. You can’t have everything dear one. You can’t make a deal with my soul. You can’t ask me to risk my future. I have wrestled with your voice in my head telling me that I have nothing to worry about. I have wrestled with the voice in my head that doesn’t want this to be true, wants to crawl into your arms and stay there in the love and safety that you have wrapped me in.
I have been stunned by how common this situation seems to be. I am absolutely devastated. I don’t want to lose you. I don’t want to lose us. I have given you my heart. I wonder how you could possibly mislead me and risk my joy. I think you believed that you could control this. That you could love me and find ways to get your sex needs with men met free of my awareness or clothed in the guise of research for a book. I feel that you have lied to both of us. There are already books written on this topic. This is not uncommon. This is being talked about. This is being wrestled with, raged against, suffered through and overcome every fucking day. This is not your best seller.
Really? How could you? How could you? How could I be here with this pain reaching out to strangers in a wired world? You are gone and I am talking to strangers. Gay men. Straight women. Women telling it like it is to women who wish it wasn’t.
You said that the last time you had sex with a man was 20 years ago. You have said that you are bisexual preferring women. I recall your telling me that you had experimented with men. Framing it as a right of passage growing up in San Fransisco. At the time, I thought of my own curiosity of my trip to the Michigan Women’s festival where I stood out straight as day in a sea of lesbians. What I didn’t hear was the meaning underneath these stories. Just yesterday you wrote that you were 30 years old when you had sex with a man last. What I didn’t hear is that you were having sex with men well into your adulthood. What I didn’t hear was that you were really having sex with men. I heard that you were curious and that you discovered that you prefer women. I heard what I wanted to hear. In two weeks, what will you be saying to me?
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- Needing support for myself now -- Sue (Hurting), 22:03:58 01/19/08 Sat
I am the contact person in my area for Straight Spouses. Now I am needing some additional support for me. My spouse and I have been married for 30 years. He came out 20 years ago. We continued together because we loved each other, had a wonderful family, etc.....Life was up and down for us with many instances of him living out the gay lifestyle occasionally, weekends, so on and so forth. This had gone on for 20 years. We agreed we would stay together until our daughter graduated from high school, in 3 years. We have been having some real issues of late because he has yet met ANOTHER man and looked me straight in the eye and said he loves this man and wants to spend the rest of his life with him. I was heartbroken. He has known this man for only 3-4 months! How can this happen.....While I am sad he is gone, I am looking to find that things will be better for me. No more worrying about when he's coming home, no worrying about is he safe? I will worry still because I love him and he's my best friend, but not about the same things anymore. I am so sad, hurt, broken and lonely....What can I do???? Sue in VA
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- A youtubelink -- Anna, 15:54:14 09/07/08 Sun
I dont know if this website allows linking but this video is a gay man talking about men on the down low.
Remove it if it is not allowed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwoCIMlr9dE&feature=related
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- My last message was response to Cherrie -- S, 11:55:05 09/12/08 Fri
She wrote about not wasting time trying to get clarity and her experience giving 9 years of her life to do so. That was powerful for me to read.
S
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- Re: I JUST WANT TO KNOW ONCE AND FOR ALL!! -- S, 11:53:05 09/12/08 Fri
Your words about honest answers being nice are comforting and they are a hard truth to accept. I think that, "not feeling right" may be the best confirmation I will receive and it is something to take seriously. Thank you for writing it so plainly back in 2007. I don't typically freak about things. It isn't my nature to make up big stories and I have never once in my 36 years thought that someone I was dating might be having sex with men.
Can you tell me more about what happened in those 9 years - did he ever tell you the truth? How is life today? Do you have any contact with him?
S
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- shocked and confused -- Lynn, 21:21:07 09/05/08 Fri
I just found out 4 weeks ago that my husband of 16 years has been visiting a gay website for the past 3 years. He admitted to chatting with men and sending pictures of himself to other men. He has had 3 sexual encounters with 3 different men. He said he knew after puberty that he had a "curiousity" for males, although he has always been attracted to females. He swears he loves me, wants to be with me, and will never get himself in that situation again. He said he felt disgusted with himself and extremely guilty for getting so caught up in it. He said he in no way would ever want to be in an intimate relationship with a guy, that it was just about the curiousity of the sex act. I don't know what to believe. Does anyone have a similar story to share?
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- My apologies to all... -- Thomas (remorseful), 18:06:18 08/30/08 Sat
My apologies go out to "all" who have been mis-lead into marriage by a spouse who was not honest to their mate nor themselves.
My heart goes out to everybody who has seen this darker side of life where they were not knowing of the life they thought they knew was actually a life they never planned for.
I especially speak to "ALL" the Women out there who have fallen victim to this emptional disaster as I am a Gay Man. Please don't hate Me or look down upon Me for being a Gay Man, as I know the majority of people dislike Gay people. I can shed some light, hope and maybe some laughter on this delicate topic. All My life (I think at age 5 I knew I was "different") I was attracted to other Boys in My neighborhood and "NO" Girls. I was raised well by My Mother (respectful, knew how to do chores, cook, laundry) as well as learned a lot from My Grandmother. All I ever heard growing up was "You are going to make a great husband for a Lucky Lady someday" or "Such a sweet loving respectful good boy like, when are you going to get Married and get a Wife". Then came teen years in school and the favorite saying from all the guys was "thats so Gay" "you're gay" "how gay". Not knowing what "gay" meant I asked people what that meant and they gave another term to explain it.... "Fag". "What's a fag" I asked. And then I got the answer, "a guy who looks at other guys". I must have turned white as a ghost and took off like a rocket. That day I finally had a label, something that tagged me as who I or what I was. How ashamed I felt - just the word "fag" sounded so cold. Nothing loving about it especially I was a very caring and compassionate kid. Well after that kick of reality I shyed away from others to try to hide my shameful self that is until it came for school dances. I really liked to dance (My Mom taught me all the dances- jitterbug, stroll, cha-cha,twist and the bump) since My father had 2 left feet and only knew one dance. The Dances came and now I need a date.... well I had to ask a girl so I did ask a girl and we went. I was excited that I was going and after getting there and only seeing girls dance with each other and all the boys were standing against the wall I decided to be the first boy on the floor. I took my dates hand and wisked her out on the floor and we danced like there was no tomarrow. I remember two distinctive things happening that night. 1) all the other girls were swooning over me and wanted to dance with Me 2) it happened out of the blue.... some boys came up and yelled at Me -"FAG" and laughed. I felt so ashamed and embarassed that I left the floor, called my dad to pick me up. After that I was now labled in school, not for being a good dancer but as the (new term) "queer". I was now in a rut and had to find a way out. I know I thought, "I'll get a girlfriend" and so I did. Long story short... even though I loved Her, I loved Her as being "Her" not as a Woman. So now I have shame on both sides of the scale. On one side I have the shame of being labeled as a fag and queer and on the other side I am lying to a perfectly unknowing and innocent lady telling her I Loved her and making wedding plans with but knowing after years of struggling as a boy who was different that I could not be faithful to her and love her the way a Man should. So after a very long week of deep emotional thinking, gut wrenching and agonizing thoughts I made my decesion as to what I was going to say choose or do. One side of me did not want to ever, ever hear that trem/label used against me ever again even if I have to hide behind a Wife in order to escape cruel treatment the other; was to stand up, be a Man and not tare,shred and ruin the life of a lovely girl that deserved the chance to be happy. A chance to make a descesion to be with a guy that truely "loved" her as the Women she was! Well it broke My heart but I made the painful decesion and told My girlfriend that I was gay and did not feel the same about her as I do for a Man. We both cried and just held each other and comforted each other. It was one of the most painful but yet best decesions I've made in My life. I see her from time to time and after all these years she still thanks Me for not lying to her and leading her into a make believe life. she has a nice husband and beautiful children. And yes, we still Love each other.... as Friends that cared for one another.
Fast forward to 2008. My Life partner and I are denied rights, benefits and recognition from soceity just for being two masculine gay men who happen to love each other. Were not about the sex and sleeze as most people seem to think of gay people. We work pay bills have a four legged furry friend who keeps us busy good family who loves and accepts Us as a couple of 15 years and we are soul mates. As We see it... men who marry to hide and ruin a Wife & children's lives in order to keep the finger pointing at them have more rights in Life then Us and therefore they are cowards. C'mon Guys... grow a pair, stand up for yourself and be accounted for as Gay men and stop hurting innocent Women & children because you are not man enough to stand out in being "different".
Ok Ladies, I will stop here even though I have much much more to say than this. I will post some tid bits on things like how to determine your husband is (as Oprah says) on the "down low". as well as give you some inside views from a Man who has been romantically and sexually involved with women but choose to be with Men. Again, I'm sorry for all of you who are or have suffered from someone else's denial. God Bless!
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- I read some stories -- Anna, 06:45:00 09/10/08 Wed
Well, I read some stories both here on the forum, ssn, married gay and here and there on the internet. I also bought that book, "my husband is gay".
I am not satisfied. I am not sure what I am searching for but those stories all ended similarly.
I cant belive one can be happy in a marrige where the husband is having gaysex on the outside while the wife sits at home, taking it.
I dont belive separation is the only answer ether.
Whatever happened to honesty, fidelity and happiness?
I mean. A bisexual does not need to have sex with both men and women.
I you are in a relationship, you probably have fallen in love with that specifik person. Why then yurn for someone on the outside?
And a mixed orientation marrige is only sucessful if both parts are aware and in on the idéa of infidelity.
Actually, why bother being married? Why not just friends?
I am probably not making any sence here, but none of this makes any sence to me any longer.
Sorry for a rambling, needed to see if I could make anything from my thoughts, but I couldn't! :D
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- I knew he was gay and we got married -- Dawn, 22:46:00 09/05/08 Fri
I met my husband 5 years ago, although we didn't get together until 2 years later, it was at that time that he told me he was gay. I was the first person he ever came out to, he had not been in any previous relationships or had any relations with men. When I first met him, I thought that he might be gay and even asked him if he was, he denied it at that time.
When we reconnected in the summer of 2005, we proceeded to develop a wonderful, close friendship over the course of 3 months. During that time, he lived about 2 hours from me. He announced one day that he was moving to the same town I lived in and I was thrilled to have my new best friend so close by. Soon after he moved, things took a strange and surprising turn.
I will preface this by saying that I had always been attracted to him, from the moment I met him and I knew he was aware of this. But when he came out to me, I knew I had to change my thoughts as I didn't want that to get in the way of our blossoming friendship. Within a few days of him moving to the same town, we were spending almost all of our free time together. One night when we went out, he held my hand, but I really didn't think anything of it. That same night, he was being oddly affectionate with me, hugging and kissing my cheek and forehead. A few nights later, I was over at his place (he was living with his brother) and he asked me to spend the night. They next thing I knew, he was kissing me, which led to more but I refused to have sex with him. I shared my confusion with him and he really couldn't explain it, so I just went with it.
Within a few days, we were spending almost every night together. By the late fall, he had moved into my apartment. We had a few bumps in the road along the way.. basically me questioning his sexuality, he never denying that he was gay, but he said he couldn't explain his feelings for me, he just wanted to be with me. I knew the risks and gave him every opportunity to walk away because I knew the risks and knew that he was not straight. He assured me time and time again that I was who he wanted.
At the end of December, he asked me to marry him. I was shocked having never expecting this, I thought he was having a weak moment, and that this was all a fluke. I gave him every opportunity to tell me that he just got caught up in the heat of the moment.. but he never relented. He told me that I was the one he wanted to be with and how fortunate he felt to be marrying his best friend. So after I was convinced this is what he really wanted, we anounced our engagement. We were married in October 2006.
Fast forward to August 2008... we both work from home and one day, I took my break earlier than I normally do and went to his office, he very uncomfortably ended a call he was on when I walked in, I casually asked him who he was talking to (I had heard a male voice on the phone) and he hesitated and told me he was talking to a mutual friend of ours, I immediately knew he was lying. Not letting it drop, I questioned him and told him I knew he was lying. I then just point blank asked him if he was leaving me and he said yes. Not for the person on the phone.. but that he just couldn't remain married to me any longer, that he couldn't be 100% to me. He tells me daily that he still loves me, we still have an amazing and fulfilling sex life. We still live together.
He does spend more time on the phone with these friends he has met through MySpace.. swears they are just friends and I believe him. I guess I just feel betrayed because I feel like I had given him so many opportunities to NOT marry me. I also feel guilty that I should have known better and just insisted we remain friends.
Part of me wants to just have him out of my life so that I can try to move on, but those feelings don't last very long, I still love and care for him tremendously and the fact that he returns those affections gives me hope that we can work through this. I don't want to deny him the life he wants, but the selfish part of me wants to really try to work this out.
I thank you for taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any thoughts and/or suggestions you would be willing to share.
*hugs*
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- S -- S, 22:35:46 09/08/08 Mon
Just tested negative for HIV. Emotionally exhausting day. One foot in front of another.
S
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- Re: S -- Liz, 00:44:59 09/09/08 Tue
- Re: S -- p, 12:39:29 09/09/08 Tue
- Dawn, its okay to drone on and on -- Liz, 00:57:04 09/09/08 Tue
Hi Dawn,
You said:
"Anyway, I know I have droned on and on here. I think what I find most comforting is knowing that I am not the only one feeling like this, not that I think it is a good thing that there are so many women hurting as a result of their husband's deception, but there is comfort knowing that we are not alone in this."
I think its okay to discuss this over and over again until you get sick of discussing it.
When I first left my husband I was a basket case and I remember a day when I cried for 8 solid hours I guess with disbelief, sadness and grief.
Families are wonderful and mine was but I know they hurt when they saw me hurting so badly so I went on-line and joined a few suuport sites. I did my best to support other people but in the beginning I needed a lot of support so writing about it over and over again was healing.
On-line folks don't have to read what I write whereas if I shared all my grief with my family I would overwhelm them with sadness, so go ahead and drone on and on. It will help you feel better.
Liz
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- Sorry Thomas, I don't agree with your morals -- Liz, 04:13:30 09/08/08 Mon
Thomas,
I'm getting a bit upset with your laisefair attitude towards intimacy and sexuality. This is a site where women have been hurt by men who lie and will do anything to have same sex and in doing so possibly putting their loved ones in harms way. So your attitude about anything goes sex I find very creepy. What you do is your business but please understand your promiscuity is something I find wrong and no I don't have to be open minded about it. In my life there are some things that are right and wrong.
I consider myself an open minded woman and politically liberal but this goes beyond my liberal outlook. In fact your promisciuity I find insulting in light of what happened in my life and the life of the other women on this site.
My former husband not only lied to me and led a secret life he also tried to kill me rather than divorce me because he didn't want to split the marital assets. He's always been very strange about money. There was a gun in our house that I had no knowledge of and I now believe he attempted to kill me. Not only was there a gun but I had many needle like bruise marks on my stomach. My former husband is a insulin dependent diabetic and he injected insulin in his stomach. After I noticed the many round bruising on my stomach I've come to the conclusion he was injecting me with insulin when I was sleeping. About 6 months before I finally left him I had not been feeling well so you see his secret life also led him to to try to kill me. All around he was a bad for my health and now in my eyes he is a very bad man. He told me more than once how easy it is to kill people and he said this due to his war experience in Vietnam.
I found his statement startling. My father was a career military man and a POW for nearly 4 years and my father never talked about killing people as being easy, In fact my father spoke the opposite. I married a very cold man and killing me to hook up with his lover was in his plan. Ghastly isn't?
Yes, I still worry about him or his boyfriend killing me but enought people know about what he tried to do so if something actually happened to me, he and his boyfriend would be the first people the police would contact.
Liz
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