- fear of sex -- Ann, 03:25:48 12/17/07 Mon
I'm just curious, I feel like no one other then my ex' prior wife understands or has had a similar experiance with sex being so " weriod, twisted, almost to the point of aabuseive" with a bi/ gay spouse. It was so bad that as she said no normal women could have enjoyed it that I began to hate and fear man, I never thought I would or could physicaly be with a man again. It is slowly getting better but even my phychatrist does not seem to understand how twisted sex can be with a gay spouse. Any comments on that subject? I am about to open up one day and educate my Dr although there is no way to discuss the subject in polite clinical terms. He is well educated and experianced, but I get the idea little is written about this experiance.
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- telling children -- B (scared), 11:42:35 12/10/07 Mon
How have you told your children about your gay spouse? I'm still processing the info myself. I learned on Thanksgiving morning not the best timing we both agree. For 24 years he said done nothing that would ever question my trust in him. He has never been caught in a lie, always says and does what he says and is where he says he is going to be. For most of November I could feel him putting a wall up around himself and I knew something was going on, he has had depression in the past and had started having wine at home everynight. Long story short he came home drunk on The night before Thanksgiving, Thank god the kids were gone and didn't see that. I was furious that he would drink and drive. Something we have always preached against and modeled for our children. He wouldn't talk to me and said He couldn't talk that night. I hid the car keys because I was afraid he was going to leave. He kept walking outside wouldn't look at me and I finally put the keys back because I thought I was being paranoid. 10 minutes later he was gone and never came home that night. He wouldn't answer his phone. The kids asked when they got home where dad was and I had to tell them I didn't know. I'm not sure if that was the worst night of my life or the next morning was when he came home and I actually forced him to talk to me. I was up the whole night thinking he was dead at the side of the road or wondering if he was having an affair. The sad part was it did cross my mind wondering if it could be a man or a woman. He came home early On Thanksgiving and tried to act normal like he had maybe just come home from work or something. Oh I forgot, in the middle of the night I was down stairs looking out the window to see if I could see his car, and noticed a folded up piece of paper he had taken out of his pocket. I opened it and it was a lab test for HIV and stds. I almost threw up,felt like someone had kicked me in the stomache. That was the reason I could force him to talk the morning he came home. he was shocked I had seen it and then I just said just tell me I need to know. He said he had had a one night stand when he was out of town a couple of weeks earlier and I said with a man or a woman. When he said a man my world stopped. We had a long talk and of course I was hysterical. Crying and questioning. I thought my boys were still sleeping. Ages 15 and 20. AS it turns out they could hear me crying,claims they couldn't hear what was being said. My daughter came home shortly after I had pulled myself together, the boys told her what had happened and everyone was ffreaked out but not asking to many questions. We have never had any huge blow outs. We've had little tiffs that generally blow over in a few hours. My children have live a blessed, privledged life with loving and caring parents. How do we blow up there world? my husband wanted to tell them after a couple of days. I couldn't do it. My older two were gong back to school for finals and we want to tell them together. We have decided a couple of days after xmas. They will have a week before having to get back into school. I am sick to death at having them need to deal with something so life altering as this will be. Mu husband was scared to death I would throw him out. We are working on things tring to figure out where to go from here. We are seeing a couselor and I have an appointment for one myself. The truely sad part of this is we are best friends and still love one another. It would be so much easier if I hated him. I don't believe being gay is a choice. The betrayal was and we are dealing with that. If I thought or felt like he didn't love me or had been living another life besides the one we shared I would have thrown him out. I think he had lied to himself and denied it to himself until he imploded. My emotions have been a roller coaster. It helps to write this down even if there isn't any set answers. Thanks.
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- Re: crazy ex- wives club -- linda shaw, 20:57:50 12/16/07 Sun
how do I join?
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- Very good book -- Cherrie, 21:32:36 12/07/07 Fri
"Finding Your Own North Star" by Martha Beck. I bought it because I know I desperately need a career change. (I actually have the job I have because I wanted the money to make my now ex-husband happy, how pathetic.) Anyway, it covers so much more, and it is a very good read (in a real fine and humorous "voice") that has tons of valuable information for anybody who needs change or has had change thrust upon them. (For me, it's got just exactly the right amount of Eastern philosophy, with not a hair of Christian, Islam, etc. dogma, without running all off in some incomprehensible New Age direction. So, if you are exactly me, you would find it very helpful. But you probably don't have to be exactly me, exactly, to like it. :-))
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- Disclosure remainig a secret -- Nicky (:(), 11:57:44 12/11/07 Tue
After weeks of browsing I found your web site, the only one so far dealing with MY problem. I'm in Europe, living in a rather small community. And what is my problem? I found out my husband (we've ben married for 15 years!) is gay, and not only that, he is also HIV positive. I had some doubts about his sexual orientation, we also haven't had sex for a couple of years (we are both in our forties, two children). My problem is that he does not want to discuss this. I asked him to leave the house, to move somewhere close (for the sake of the children). I tell him every day I am waiting for his answer, at least for a suggestion for solving this situation, but nothing happens. He is perfectly satisfied with the life he lives (doing two jobs, having a "nice", normal family). My greatest problem is that he forbid me to talk about the whole thing ... He has no intention of coming out, he doesnt' want anywone to know about his infection (I am HIV negative, thanks God). And there is no support group for people like me around ... There are moments when I think I'll go nuts ... And I live as everythin were normal ... Any idea, what should I do?
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- scared even when it is good -- Ann, 13:37:16 11/25/07 Sun
Ok I met a wonderful guy, never married, no kids, has been in a long term relationship in the past, I am certain he is not gay.
He loves me and treats me better then anyone in the past, only been together for 7 weeks, yet he made me his benificiary on his retirement as he has no kids and hopes we end up married, and until then states he wants to know that if something happened to him, my kids and I are taken care of.
Wants to get married next summer, and wants all the child support I recieve to go into a saparate account for the kids needs and hopefully most will stay there for college needs.
My kids really feel comfortable with him and like him, and support the idea of us getting married. My older/ wiser frieds like him too.
He is totaly supportive of what ever I do: work outside the home, public office, hobbies etc. He is from Denmark where they are more progressive.
I love him, the sex is great, he is already proving to be a good provider, has me looking at homes today with a real estate agent.
He and I went out looking the other day now he wants the kids to look at a few places we liked.
Wants to take me home to Denmark to get married followed by a wedding here as well for our friends.
I have met his long time 30 plus year friends who are wonderful people and many knew his parents. He has a large supportive network of nearly 100 danish friends who he is very close to.
But I am still fearful and afraid of rejection, I still have a hard time thinking that someone so kind and loving, loves me. I keep thinking soon he will change his mind and decide he made a big mistake.
I wonder what it would be like to live with a man who is honest and loving, what will I do with my time. So much time in the past was spent in worry about my looks trying to be beautiful enough for my husband to notice me and want me. Or time spent anxious and upset not trusting.
This new man in my life says what he means and means what he says.
Any suggestions?
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- 2 years and still wondering ? -- lisa, 11:49:59 11/16/07 Fri
i am writing to share my story and hoping to hear other people's perspective on my story . i am married x 14 yrs. my spouse was married prior, divorced after 5 yrs . he was in the navy when we met . we lived together for a year and had alot of sexual chemistry . 2 years ago i stumble across an email that was left open which was under an alias name . i did some digging and discovered a yahoo personal profile that seemed to match my husband (no photo) but it was stating that he was into submission , not painful and needed to BE DISCREET ....the other recipient had a profile w/ pictures and lo and behold it was a man's genitalia ! i was shocked , i confronted , he denied , i demanded counseling , he went to 2 sessions with me and i went for a year alone . my therapist seemed to think either he is deeply closeted or hetero . his excuse has always been that it was spam, wasn't him, blah, blah, blah ........but now that i think back there was a time when we were newly married that i just asked "are you gay" out of the blue, well he bolted , yes left for a day . we never spoke of it again and i was so young then that i remember feeling confused . so here i am married , with 2 children and am still left wondering 2 years after the computer incident ....thoughts ???
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- Update on dinner with ex -- Liz (Betrayal), 09:37:37 12/05/07 Wed
I had dinner with ex at my house and made a delicious meal.
That night when I went to sleep I had a nightmare about him. The dream had to do with loss and betrayal, so you see I'm still recovering. What the dream tells me is to stay away from him because I do suffer after I see him.
The false life we lead is still affecting me. His lies and betrayal is deep in my heart. I pray that eventually his presence will no longer affect me. But his betrayal still hurts deeply. I am okay with myself and just taking it one day at a time.
Liz
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- Just found out -- B (heartbroken), 14:49:24 12/07/07 Fri
I'm sitting here crying reading all the messages. how could this be happening to me. My Husband of 24 years came out to me on Thanksgiving morning. I think he came out to himself not long before. I must have had a sense because when he admitted to a one night stand I asked if it was a man or a women. In some ways it would have been easier if it was a women. I adore this man, he says he truely loves me and doesn't want to divorce I'm not sure if that could possibly work. I do believe that he has been faithful to me up until recently. Am I stupid for still believing in him. I know we have a long road ahead I'm just so incredibly sad.
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- Just a "share" thing -- Cherrie, 01:16:09 12/02/07 Sun
So, I am seeing this guy that I don't quite trust. I don't know why, it's just "gut instinct." But there's nothing really wrong with him... it just doesn't feel quite right... kind of like he's "faking himself" in order to "get through the door" with me.
Anyway, the relationship went to hell on Tuesday and ended on Wednesday.
And I think that my "gut instinct" was spot on. He's not a bad man, and I will not malign him. But we were not a fit. And I think that he (probably totally subconsciously) wanted to be "not himself" for a while until he thought that that was long enough that I would perceive a "fit" that didn't really exist. (Which we all do to a certain extent early in a relationship, so, I'm not talking moral judgement here).
But, I thought it might be nice to share this feeling that "I cannot trust my instincts," yet, they aren't failing me right now. They do seem to be spot on. Despite that feeling of having been "duped by a gay man" for my entire adult life.
(Yeah, and I do feel like I need to get over the whole "duped" thing. It wasn't intentional. It just happened. But it's cold here. And it is the holiday season and I don't know how to decorate a Christmas tree for just me. And the visibility here tonight is 0 miles. The snow falls. And self-pity and this sense of being lost in a cold and lonely place sometimes rears its ugly head. :-))
(Yeah, and I threw out a smile with that last paragraph, but anybody, straight spouse or otherwise divorced, can probably empathize with that horrific feeling of celibrating a holiday where it feels like you're trying to celibrate something that no longer exists. It is a blue place to be.)
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- Questioning my marriage -- Cris, 14:55:01 12/06/07 Thu
Right. Okay. Here's the thing. A little over 2 months ago, AOL came out with its new VR software, and I downloaded it. It linked the AOL browser with the Internet Explorer browser and I didn't think too much about that. What happened next has completely floored me and I'm still struggling with all the issues brought up by the events.
I logged onto the IE browser and looked back at the history to find a site I had visited a day or so before. I was stunned to find gay porn websites in the history list. I thought perhaps it was a mistake, a virus or something, but I did check again the next day and there they were again. I realized that my husband of over a decade had been browsing these sites when I went up to bed before he did. I thought about confronting him at that moment but I decided that I needed a little more time to make sure I was strong and centered in myself, and to see if it was a just a curiousity thing on his part.
Background: we are both in our 40s, first marriage for both of us, no children, comfortable life, nice house, he has a big job at work, I have worked but now I volunteer for several nonprofits and manage the house & support him in the corporate climb. Another important item: he had an executive training program this summer which was 6 weeks long. During that time, I managed our kitchen renovation, visited family and at the end of his program, I went out to the "graduation" and we spent a week traveling.
He has a job which requires travel, some international. After this astonishing discovery, he had to travel for 2 weeks, with a weekend at home. We had a houseguest that weekend and I kept myself busy with preparations for all that. I also installed spyware on the computer to track what he did when had the home computer to himself.
So, 3 weeks on, feeling heartsick, I had to spend one night with his elderly aunt who is recovering from a stroke and when I came back home, I checked the computer again and much to my dismay, the same websites popped up again in the history. I could see from the spyware that he had used the AOL browser and then "cleared his footprints" on that browser. But it did not clear the history from the IE browser.
In those weeks of his being gone and my worrying, I contacted an old friend who is gay and who my husband does not really know. He is an old college friend and a physician now. I knew I needed support and an objective mind and someone not intimately connected with my husband. I felt I couldn't talk with my family (my sister and I are very close) or mutual friends about this in case it was some horrible mistake. I was feeling isolated, confused, concerned, upset, and I needed help!
I waited until my husband came home, and showed him the evidence of the gay websites on the computer. I had done quite a bit of research online and tried to make the encounter as non-threatening as possible, not to be judgmental, to encourage an open and honest discussion about what I had found.
He was very ashamed and embarassed and it was really difficult to get past his wishing that I hadn't seen what he'd been doing. I should add that there was no online chatting or personal ads or any evidence that he had been sexually active with anyone other than me. He said that it was a mistake, he'd been curious, that it was perhaps possible that he was further toward gay on the Kinsey scale than he'd thought. I also should add that we have a good number of gay friends, and that he's never been homophobic in any way.
Since then, it's been like the elephant in the room. I have great difficulty getting him to talk about it, he says it's nothing to be concerned about, everything is fine. But I can't stop worrying about it.
We do have sex, and have had it since the big discovery but we did have big periods of nothing happening. We both got out of shape, didn't feel good about our bodies, but started a workout program together a few months ago which has really paid off for me. I have not had oral sex from him for maybe 2 years, which is really starting to bother me, as I frequently give him that pleasure. I'm now concerned that he's not really into my genitalia (how awful that sounds) and it feels like now that he's avoiding the whole area except for intercourse... but I could be overly sensitive...
Anyway, I found this site through my research, have been reading posts and feel that you all have a great breadth of experience, and differing attitudes and great support and hope for each other. I would like to hear what you might have to say about this...
All the best,
Cris
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- intresting article on Denial -- Difflurker, 15:13:07 11/25/07 Sun
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/health/research/20deni.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&ref=science&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
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- I JUST WANT TO KNOW ONCE AND FOR ALL!! -- Annie, 15:06:43 11/27/07 Tue
OK. My therapist recommended I check out forums and groups dealing with "this issue". I brought up the fact that I think my husband is gay or bisexual. I've based this on the fact that we rarely have sex and when we do I ALWAYS initiate it. Not to be blatent, but the WAY he does have sex when we do is also a signal to me. No kissing, or making out, no face to face contact.
I just feel I need to hear from someone who may have also heard the excuses "too tired, too stressed, you're too needy" etc., for why we don't have sex.
He is a wonderful man, and I hate to see us both be unhappy with our sex life. HELP!!
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- Grace -- Cherrie, 01:54:47 11/20/07 Tue
Grace falls upon you
Like rain after drought
Wetting your skin,
Like wandering through woods, alder choked, swampy,
And lost, but you find
An old road, overgrown, with raspberries,
Ripe and moist, and you head down this path,
Not knowing the destination,
But knowing only that the path takes you forward.
You know only that the raspberries are swweet,
And that your mouth is filled with seeds.
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- How long does it take to heal? -- Liz, 21:58:16 11/13/07 Tue
It's been a almost a year since I left my husband.
In the beginning all I did was cry, howl like an animal and now I have an occasional wimper. I'm still experiencing bad dreams where I wake up and hear myself say... why did you lie to me?
Those of you who have distanced yourself longer from your ex gay spouse, when did you start to feel whole? How did you do it. Please share your experiences with me.
I'm desperate to know the road you traveled towards a happier life.
Liz
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- I never meant to hurt him. -- Jen, 14:30:24 11/14/07 Wed
Last night my husband and I (married since 2001) had a heart to heart that I wish I could take back. He’s my best friend and I care for him, but I fear that I can no longer live like this. I know that the lack of intimacy and waning sexual activity is my fault. I’ve hurt him deeply and I don’t want to do that.
I can’t help my fantasies. I’ve had one extra-martial affair (he knew about it) and even though that relationship is over and was unhealthy, I cannot forget the comfort and connection I felt by seeing my hand in hers.
I do my best to be a kind and caring person and I cannot believe my denial has led me to be this cruel. I wish I could take away all of his pain. I’d bear his pain and mine if I could.
I don’t understand why I can’t keep “living straight”. I’ve done it for decades, why have I reached a point where faking it is no longer tolerable? Why have I hurt another person just to find some kind of vague self-fulfillment? When I look at my life, I can’t envision being without him and yet this depression is becoming too much to bear. My fleeting suicidal thoughts have starting coming more frequently and I nearly went to the hospital yesterday for I feared I was a threat to myself.
He’s a kind and caring man. He’s done nothing to deserve this. I wish I could take it all back, but my logical mind knows that’s only delaying the inevitable. I can’t face my family with one more failed marriage under my belt. I can’t face his family and explain all of this. I haven’t a clue as to what to say to my step-daughter who I love and adore.
There has to be a solution to this and I can’t see it right now.
Oh my God, what if I'm wrong? What if I've hurt him like this and I'm wrong?
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- Faith of the Heart -- Beamer, 10:30:07 11/15/07 Thu
I was surfing and I heard this and thought it was appropriate to some of the central themes we discuss here.
This is an expression of someone who is using their Faith that I often speak of. I even left the guitar tabs in in case some of you might wish to play along :}
Love and Light,
Beamer
ARTIST: Rod Stewart and Dianne Warren
TITLE: Faith of the Heart
Lyrics and Chords
[Television Theme Song]
It's been a long road
Getting from there to here
It's been a long time
But my time is finally near
And I can feel a change in the wind right now
Nothing's in my way
And they're not going to hold me down no more
No they're not going to hold me down
/ D - - - / Bm A G - / Bm - - - / G Em G - / F#m - - - /
/ G - - - / Em - - - / - - - A /
{Refrain}
'Cause I've got faith of the heart
I'm going where my heart will take me
I've got faith to believe
I can do anything
I've got strength of the soul
And no one's gonna bend or break me
I can reach any star
I've got faith, I've got faith
Faith of the heart
/ D - G - / - - F#m A / D - G - / F#m - G A /
/ D - G - / - - F#m A / Bm - Em - - - / G - - - A - - - / D - - - /
It's been a long night
Trying to find my way
Been through the darkness
Now I finally have my day
And I will see my dream come alive at last
I will touch the sky
And they're not going to hold me down no more
No, they're not going to change my mind
{Refrain}
I've known a wind so cold, seen the darkest days
But now the winds I feel are only winds of change
I've been through the fire and I've been through the rain
But I'll be fine, oh yeah
/ C - - - F - - - / / G - - - C - F - / A - - - - - - - /
{Refrain}
It's been a long road
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- I'm so glad I found all of you --- where do I go from here? -- Liz, 13:13:47 11/11/07 Sun
I was married for 20 years and now divorced for a year to my ex.
Almost from the start there were problems with intimacy. I tried everything to get him to respond to my sexual advances but nothing worked.
He is a good man in many ways and told me he love me more than he's loved anyone else. I was his 4th wife and the one who hung in the longest. The other marriages didn't last more than a year or two.
He blamed the problems of his former marriages on his ex-wives. They were crazy, cheated on him, trouble with the step kids, yada, yada, yada. He told me I was the best wife he's ever had.
I was the best wife because I tolerated his coldness, lack of intimacy and trusted him completely when he went on extended fishing trips with his buddies. He also spent a lot of time on the computer.
Everything came to a head when he supposedly had an affair with a woman 32 his junior. It didn't make sense to me because during our entire marriage he never looked at other women, but I caught him looking at men when he didn't think I was looking.
I left him after that supposed affair. Its been a year now and I feel relieved and tremendous sorrow for allowing myself to love someone who could lie to me so easily.
I'm trying to recover but it has been a difficult road.
I don't trust any man and I wonder if I will ever trust again. Now I look at every man with a suspicious eye wondering what they are hiding.
I can't bring myself to date anyone. I've made some feeble attempts but at the last minute I RUN.
I am so glad that there is a forum like this. I've been on a divorced support group but for the most part it involved straight women married to straight men. I believe my issues are different.
Not having intimacy for almost my entire marriage has left me so confused and deeply wounded.
Where do I go from here? Someone mentioned the stages of grief for folks like us. What are they?
Your support is much appreciated. There are days I don't want to go on but I have 3 grown children I adore and I could never hurt them by committing suicide. The man I was married to is not worth killing myself over.
But what has happened to me is that I so much trouble with trust issues now and I look at my marriage as a total lie. I was a convenient cover for him.
Any feedback and support is very much appreciated.
Liz
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- Me again (sorry) -- Susan, 18:06:40 11/04/07 Sun
Okay, so after lots of talking (see post below "confused about my husband" for all the sordid details) my husband now at least admits that he needs to think about things. He does still say that he absolutely wants to stay together and insists that he likes having sex with me. I told him how this whole thing has brought all of my anxieties about our sex life to a head. I think he does (did) enjoy it when we had sex but my reasoning is this: Over the years it's gone from about once a week (not much) to once a month, and now at least two months. When we do (did) it it's nice, but the analogy I used was that if you're really hungry and you eat some pasta it'll be good - you're starving! But who goes out of their way to eat pasta? Who thinks "god, I am absolutely DYING for some boiled spaghetti with a can of tomato sauce thrown on top" ? You have to eat, and it's not bad, but come on, right?
This may spark some controversy, but I've been reading posts on Alternative paths from women in MOM and some of them seem so grateful for sex with their gay/bi husbands, even knowing that the men preferred sex with other men.
I think I would (do?) resent the hell out of that - and of course I'm speaking for myself, I know that everyone's relationship is different).
Where am I going with this? No idea. I don't want to discard the idea of staying together, but I'm cancelling out all the alternatives. The best I can come up with is roommates who are really good friends but not married. Are there six thousand reasons why that's impossible?
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- New here....is he gay or bisexual? -- Marie, 03:50:12 11/07/07 Wed
Hi everyone, my name's Marie. I'm 22 this year. Recently began dating a man who's around ten years my senior. He was an ex-colleague and I've liked him since we worked together, but the relationship only took off recently. I like him tremendously as he has all the qualities I look for: caring, friendly, nice, kind. When we were working together in the past, out of a huge number of men colleagues, he'd be the one to notice my makeup, new shoes and clothing. He would pass compliments and stuff like that. When he speaks, he had this twinkle in his eye. Not sure if I was being sensitive but anyway...
This week, I got to meet another ex-colleague from the same company. This ex-colleague doesn't know of the relationship yet. We chatted over lunch, and he said something about my new guy in a joke at work. Some of the people in the company would make jokes behind his back, saying he's in a gay relationship with another person, let's call this guy "B". When I was working with some clients, they told me they suspected B was gay and had asked him, but they aren't sure my guy is gay as he'd get angry when they ask.
Please do advise me if you can as I'm totally confused and I don't know what to do. I really like him and I don't want to ask in case he turned out to be straight and I know guys hate to be asked this question. Thanks.
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