[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement:
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 23:54:36 08/20/02 Tue
Author: Lijdrec
Subject: Church, you're forgetting the engineer's KISS principle....
In reply to:
UHC
's message, "Super Technology of Buffy" on 16:59:27 08/20/02 Tue
Your analysis and that of most people on the Boards is too complex. It simply does not follow the 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' principle. All of the speculation about the chip somehow reading external life forms and differentiating between Human and Demon is just too complex a procedure to give to it.
Remember that the Initiative was originally headed by Maggie Walsh, a specialist in Human Behavior - Psychology. Vampires are afterall a mongrel, a Human/Demon Mix. The chip therefore would be designed by a Human Behavioralist to work based upon a human brain response initiated by the enhanced senses of the Demon.
I think of it as working something like this......
First off all, the Vampire's primary food source is terrestrial, mortal blood, whether it be Human or another mortal life form. The Human senses are amplified by the Demon. A Vampire is said to be able to smell, hot, live blood coursing through a beings veins and to be able to determine the species that it is sensing. Since only terrestiral, mortal blood is the primary food source of the Vampire, there must be a specific eletro-chemical response to that food source that the chip then reads in the brain of the Vampire. This would be how the chip would be said to be able to differentiate between Human and Demon. In fact, the chip only manages to recognize one specific response within the Vampire itself to an external stimulus caused by its prey.
Now what happens next, is where I think the logic gets a bit fuzzy (mmmmm....... fuzzy logic, any ideas there?). The chip must now read an intent or perhaps more correctly the electro-chemical responses of the brain that result in an overt act of agression that is in response to the earlier feeding stimuli. Once read the chip - FIRES!
Now the incident on the catwalk with Drusilla where Spike fed on her fresh kill indicates that this second 'reading' of the chip may be very specific. There may have been no 'intent' or no overt agressive act, the electro-chemical trigger that the chip was meant to read my not have occurred.
Which brings me to Buffy. I hate the idea that she "came back wrong". I have always considered that the change that allowed Spike to hit Buffy happened in Spike (and I truly may be out in left field here, but the 'deep molecular tan theory is illogical to say the least). It would involve one of the two sensor reads that I hypothesize the chip performs. In Buffy's case I think that it is the first read, seeing her as a food source that I would like to believe has been stopped. That response in the Vampire would necessarily be an automatic response, instinctual, something that the Vampire would not normally think consciously about. And I think that it may also have been a sub-conscious impulse on the part of the Demon to extiguish that response in Buffy's case. Why? You won't like it Church, the Demon no longer saw Buffy as food, as an adversary, it was a certain kind of 'love'.
So what would such a theory have upon a Souled Spike in Season 7? Ahhh..... very interesting, indeed! The chip still works, but it doesn't appear too in many cases! Why? The Demon is no longer in control, the same response that may have been 'turned-off' by the Demon and allowed Spike to hurt Buffy, may be extinguished by the a Souled Spike. Thus if there is no automatic sensing of a mortal being as a food source the chip will not be triggered. Angel himself is the example for this. He no longer tends to look upon the Humanity as food sources. Angel only came to consider Connor as a food source, to sense his blood, only after being clandestinely fed his son's blood.
So in Season 7, Spike may be able to hurt anybody, should his Souled Self so choose. As long as he does think about eating beforehand!
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Replies:
[> [>
Correction: So in Season 7, ......... As long as he does *NOT* think about eating beforehand! -- Lijdrec, 00:06:50 08/21/02 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
All Riiigghhtt!!!! A Lijdrec, in-depth discourse on Spike ..... I love it!!! -- Phaedra, 06:49:55 08/21/02 Wed [1]
This is great Lynn!! You did keep it simple. Human = food source. Hmmm. I'm going to have to look back at some S6 tapes. When the chip goes off. I don't think very often. So, this theory is as plausible as any other! :-)
Ok, I'll head out to left field with you. I never bought the "coming back wrong" answer either. It was so lame. And after all the build-up of what Buffy could be, or is the chip no longer working. It was another anti-climatic piece of the S6 puzzle. (You take your glove tho, I hate playing left field .... I'm more of a right field girl ;-)
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Dinner Bell!!!!!!!!! -- UHC, 17:46:21 08/21/02 Wed [1]
Ok you made other points in your argument but I'll take this one first.
Here is what I understood you to say. The Chip responds to the chemical reaction that occurs in the brain when Spike gets ready to eat. Kinda like how we get hungry and out stomach's growl when we smell something cooking. Only that it works one step farther and is only activated when Spike's vampyric instincts kick in and he goes to pounce. If you want to get technical I would say that the chip activates based on a combination of 2 separate things happening. First the hunger responce and then the signal that goes from the brain to his muscles that says "Bite/Hit/Kick/Kill" And when the 2 are combined we get ZAAAAAAP. Am I correct in this so far?
I will wait for your response.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Well....... I wasn't being rigorous on the spur of the moment.... -- Lijdrec, 18:01:02 08/21/02 Wed [1]
If you want to get technical I would say that the chip activates based on a combination of 2 separate things happening. First the hunger responce and then the signal that goes from the brain to his muscles that says "Bite/Hit/Kick/Kill" And when the 2 are combined we get ZAAAAAAP.
Uh.... I think that is exactly what I said, a two parter.
I think the sensing that is being read by the chip first is related to the hunting/prey sense of the Vampire. This does not have to be a conscious effort on the part of the Vampire. Thus Spike did not use his senses to confirm Tara's humanity, but used the outward effect of the chip to prove it. In fact this step is probably always ongoing sub-consciously in the Vampire; ie. the Vampire may not be consciously hunting for prey for this brain activity to be occurring. It is probably an innate instinctual response that the chip is using.
Then there is the second read...
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
1 point for Liddy -- UHC, 18:10:51 08/21/02 Wed [1]
I concede the Tara issue. And this is something I hadn't considered, however. I have other problems along the way.
In "Yoko Factor" back in season 4, we have Spike being zapped for pointing a gun at Xander. I'll let you go ahead and attack that and see whats left.
Then in Weight of the World. Spike is annoyed with Xander. And he knows he is going to get Zapped but he goes to hit him. Now the problem here is I know Spike had no food thoughts going on here. He simply wanted to inflict pain (even though it was only a small amount) But it throws the whole dinnerbell part off to me.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [>
1 point for Liddy and add 2 more!?!? -- Lijdrec, 18:51:36 08/21/02 Wed [1]
In "Yoko Factor" back in season 4, we have Spike being zapped for pointing a gun at Xander.
So? Sorry I don't see the problem with my theory!
Then in Weight of the World. Spike is annoyed with Xander. And he knows he is going to get Zapped but he goes to hit him. Now the problem here is I know Spike had no food thoughts going on here.
You seem to have missed my point, Church.....
The Vampire need not be consciously looking for food.
The first step is probably always ongoing sub-consciously in the Vampire; ie. the Vampire may not be consciously hunting for prey for this brain activity to be occurring. It is probably an innate, instinctual food/prey response that the chip is using. I believe that the Vampiric Demon inhabits the R-complex, Reptilian portion of human brain. There it finds similar human behaviors to that of its own. The rudimentary functions of that portion of the human brain include:
basic life support systems, reflex responses, basic physiological functions, primary motor functions, instinctive or genetically-programmed behaviors, primitive sensations, aggression, territoriality, dominance, and the reproductive behaviors.
The Vampire may be using the human instinctive or genetically-programmed behaviors and it would be those behaviors/senses that the chip would be reading concerning a food source.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [>
K I will go along with your theory for now -- UHC, 19:11:29 08/21/02 Wed [1]
hehe and no Phaedra he didn't get me because he used big words. I still have some qualms with some of the scenes. But I'm willing to accept your explanation. Mostly because I'm not against it. However I do wonder if the writers actually put as much into thinking this through as we did or if they just did the whole "What If" game.
So my next question. As Spike gows as a demon with a soul. Does that mean he will overcome the urge to eat period and thus defeat the chip that way? Or is it only that way with Buffy?
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Wore you down did I.?.! - Claiming victory in this battle then. Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah! -- Lijdrec....;-), 20:49:05 08/21/02 Wed [1]
So my next question. As Spike gows as a demon with a soul. Does that mean he will overcome the urge to eat period and thus defeat the chip that way? Or is it only that way with Buffy?
To Reiterate: If the Demon is no longer in control, the same response that may have been 'turned-off' by the Demon and allowed Spike to hurt Buffy, may be extinguished by the a Souled Spike. Thus if there is no automatic sensing of a mortal being as a food source the chip will not be triggered. Angel himself is the example for this. He no longer tends to look upon the Humanity as food sources. Angel only came to consider Connor as a food source, to sense his blood, only after being clandestinely fed his son's blood.
I think that with Spike this may develop over Season 7. But then again you cannot be sure. I think the writers, even JW, do not know how the chip works. The only write that it does! Or doesn't, and then try to explain it, they've done a piss-poor Sci-Fi job of that (ie. Buffy's deep molecular tan, but maybe they were lying?)!
[ Edit | View ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]
Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.
|
|
