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Subject: Re: Don't like your grades? Shoot the teacher! Author: Zisel ben [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 11:44:21 05/02/01 Wed In reply to: Rodney Reel 's message, "Re: Don't like your grades? Shoot the teacher!" on 10:53:38 05/02/01 Wed "People are violent by nature." I simply do not agree with that. I also never said that "well, we can't solve the problem and people will always get guns on the black market if they become illegal, so we'll just ignore the problem, blame it on human nature, and let people just go on killing each other." YOU said this. Don't go putting words in my mouth. Just because I didn't offer a solution at this very moment does not mean I don't have one. Give some time to think a little harder and I will be back with one. "Or how 'bout we rip out a women's clit with a pair of rusty pliers to keep her from being unfaithful because she will lose the desire to fornicate with another man other than her husband." I'm sorry, but this is the most absurd argument that I've ever had. OK, going by this analogy, a woman's clit is the gun, metaphorically speaking. The clit, as you so delicately called it, is what is driving women to be unfaithful, so following your logic, a gun is what drives these people to violence? Well, if that is the case, and since guns, unlike clits, do not serve any productive role in society, why not get rid of them? " I guess you did not understand the point of all my analogies. Yes, they are ridiculous analogies, they were meant to be. They were all sarcastic, I was making fun of the line of thinking where the "gun" is the source of the problem. Which I don't agree with anymore than I believe that the "clit" (soo indelicate, pardon me) is the source of desire in a women. It might be where desire makes itself manifest but I believe that the mind is the most powerful erogenous zone. But I'm sure you will try to debate with me on that one or something. I also don't agree that people have the same intrisic nature as monkeys as you presented. And we can argue till we are blue in the face but I don't suppose either one of us will change our opinion. "Have you ever had some piece of shit pull iron on you? I have. And it makes you feel helpless and it sucks..." Now, THIS stuck me as very interesting. Isn't it a horrible feeling? Yeah, have you ever been held down by four large men who are are bigger and stronger than you and had your body being taken over and violated in such a manner that you lose all hope? I think these are some very interesting feelings and ideas that you have flowing here and I urge you to continue pondering them. Ta Ta for now, Zisel [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Don't like your grades? Shoot the teacher! Author: Zisel ben [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:41:02 05/02/01 Wed A question for you Rodney: Since you seem to feel very strongly about this ban the guns deal, which I can understand where you are coming from when you say that they are not productive, I must inquire, how do you feel about the government building up arms to "defend" us from other countries? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Don't like your grades? Shoot the teacher! Author: Rodney Reel [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:01:48 05/02/01 Wed http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010502/ts/crime_teacher_dc_1.html Check out this news story. This 14 year old in Florida got sent home from school for throwing water balloons. So he went home, got a gun, and shot the teacher. Zisel, no, I haven't ever held down by four people and violated, but that has nothing to do with the discussion. You feel that violence isn't an intrinsic characteristic, so what do we do about guns? What's the deal with all of the violence? Are we just weak-minded and are being brainwashed into thinking that handing out beat downs and objectifying women as sex objects is cook by television and video games? (as an aside, there's some computer game that's out now that sells the fact that the two main characters (both chicks) get frisky with each other at times. the ad has both of them in their drawz and bras, laying almost on top of each other. they're frigging computer animations for christ's sake!) But back to your question, I have no problem with us having a national defense budget. It may be naive, but I trust the military with the guns more than I trust the everyday schmo. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Don't like your grades? Shoot the teacher! Author: Zisel ben [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:27:50 05/02/01 Wed My point with the being held down by someone was that it is the same as having someone pull a gun on you---You feel helpless and scared, that was my point, so it DOES have something to do with the discussion. Okay? YOU were the one who brought that up, anyway, I'm not sure if there was a question following that...but I said that to begin with because I was explaining that someone who is using a gun is being violent driven from a motive to be violent, their gun is just the tool. But I do see your point that without guns maybe it wouldn't be so easy to kill someone when you are driven to a violent outburst BUT I still feel more strongly about the fact that concentrating on the root of the problem is a more pressing issue. I guess in the mean time we should try to eliminate easy-to-access deadly weapons like guns. That is something I will agree with. And, yes, I don't feel violence is intrisic in human nature. I am not a violent person. I have never been. I also happen to know countless people who are not. Many people. How can you say that it is? Do you feel that these people who commit violent acts on a regular basis were born with this desire to kill or harm or whatever? That just seems like a sad dark assumption and underestimation of humans and their ability to evolve, especially with your comparison to monkeys or something. I mean, isn't that what "evolution" is about? We are constantly evolving. Maybe you don't feel that we have. ? I believe that as people grow they learn what gets results and what doesn't and if they learn that violence, in any fashion, is a tool for power or indulgence than, yes, they will use it. And who knows where they learn it or at what point in their life they are influenced by it, I don't think that the media is to blame, I think it goes deeper than that. Whether we like to admit it or not our parents, teachers and friends are out biggest influences on our lives and if we surround ourselves and are exposed to negativity and violence on a regular basis than sometimes it becomes hard to filter out what is acceptable and what is not, what is right and what is wrong. What IS right and wrong? I believe that we all know that answer to that in our hearts but are afraid to embrace that inner sense out of a lack of trust or fear that it will not get us "what we want". Maybe we should stop focusing on "what can I get" and instead learn to give, and teach others the same, and with that as the goal WHO would want to harm another simply for their own gain? But here I am getting all idealistic I suppose. Shame on me, right? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]