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Date Posted: 12:43:21 07/12/07 Thu
Author: Theresa
Subject: A few questions on Frank
Do you think Frank is chauvinistic? Do you think he would have tried to raise a girl the same way as he tried with Jeremy? (I say tried because he didn't raise him, Denise did.) Do you think he had anything to do with them only having one child? I wonder about Frank.
He's very sweet, loving, and open with Denise as long as she does his bidding but once she goes against him he orders her about and says things to her ending with "do you understand me!?!" Like she's his subordinate.
What do you think?
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I do think Frank is chauvinistic....I think Frank is "old school" where he's the man & because he is, everyone else is beneath him & his is the only opinion that matters. That doesn't mean he doesn't love Denise, but I don't think he respects Denise or thinks of her as an equal partner. Things are going to get interesting as Denise starts becoming more vocal with Frank, something he's not used too. I believe a daughter would be raised as a 2nd class citizen by Frank, & there would be different rules for the son & the daughter. I agree that Frank treats his family like he does the soldiers under his command, he's not able to separate the two IMHO.... -- Jennifer, 13:13:34 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Pam's state to Roxy that it is "Army, Unit, Family" in that order comes to mind. Frank is married to his career first & foremost, everything in his life, both private & professional, is for the Army. Denise has, up to now, taken a back seat to his career, and that tends to make him chauvinistic. When Denise disagrees with him, it makes him angry b/c it upsets his preconcieved notion of the perfect wife/family. -- Texasbrat, off to fix supper, 13:48:58 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Also, b/c he is married to his career, he can't separate his career from his private life. -- Texasbrat, 13:50:54 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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He'd probably have had more trouble with a daughter - lol. Seriously though, I suspect he would have found it easier to love a daughter, especially if she was like Denise. Also he wouldn't have had to maintain the hard "no mollycoddling" act with a girl. I don't think he's shown himself to be chauvinistic yet, (Inside...I'm over, suprise, suprise) -- Ixia, 14:51:40 07/12/07 Thu [1]
he didn't listen to Denise, but would he have listened to anybody in that frame of mind? Also the whole "look after your mother" thing that people have seized upon...my DH works away and says it to my LO when he goes away, it's just something you say to LOs to make them feel important. Obviously Jeremy isn't little anymore, but still... However the talk of Frank not liking the idea of Dee going back to work..that probably falls into the chauvinistic bracket...but we don't know the details of that yet. As for the only child, Denise strikes me as the type that would want more...maybe they couldn't? I don't know. I wonder about Frank too - can't bring myself to dislike him yet....
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Not really relevant, but the scene where D&F are in bed - is it normal to keep your dog tags on whilst...erm...doing the deed..I imagine they'd be somewhat annoying. -- Ixia, 14:58:52 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Maybe she finds them sexy. LOL! He'd just have to flip them around to his back so he doesn't scratch her with them, or maybe she was driving the boat. Who knows. LOL! -- Theresa, 15:07:43 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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"maybe she was driving the boat" - lol,lol...Now you've made it relevant, if Frank was as chauvinistic as some think, then that definitely wouldn't happen :) -- Ixia, 15:19:24 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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You can be chauvinistic in one area and not the other. If he liked it better that way, it would serve his purposes. After all, he is in bed with someone who looks like Denise. He may like the view from down there. -- Theresa, 15:23:32 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Isn't that one of those paradoxes about men anyway (not all men, obviously) - the whole 'the madonna and the whore' concept? -- Colie, 15:36:06 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Oops, we're back on Freud again - lol. Frank might prefer Jerry Hall's approach - "Maid in the living room, cook in the kitchen, whore in the bedroom”. But there's an article in TV guide(?), that says Denise will start to assert herself sexually, so maybe she will be taking the helm sometime soon -lol -- Ix, 15:51:18 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Sure sounds like the show is going to stay interesting!! :-) -- Colie, 16:34:22 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Well, there *is* a whole world of JAG fanfics out there that centers around the dog tags... ya know, the spicy kind... So I guess there's something to them! ;-) -- Colie, 15:30:11 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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I think there used to be a thing in the military, that those tags weren't supposed to be taken off, ever, no matter what until the soldier's discharge or death. -- Texasbrat, 16:06:17 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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That seems really dangerous when the women and men who wear them are dealing with machinery or things they can get caught in. -- Theresa, 16:11:30 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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Yeah.........but, they are usually dressed in their uniform when they are working. The tags would be against their chest, then they would have on a t-shirt, then their uniform shirt. The machinery would be more apt to eat a sleeve or wedding ring (which many don't wear for that very reason) than the tags. -- Texasbrat, 11:54:47 07/13/07 Fri [1]
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How he handles a girl would depend on her personality -- whether she was more like Denise or more like him. If she was like D, then she would be like the Holden's youngest, if she is like him, she'd be like Amanda. -- Texasbrat, 16:12:35 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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The youngest Holden is a lot like Denise actually, i have a feeling that they get along well. I loved the F/D scene in bed... CB looked really beautiful in that scene and Frank is just a hunk!!! -- Rachelle, 00:05:22 07/14/07 Sat [1]
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I agree.. I thought I was the only one who thinks Frank is a hunk!!! -- Erin, 10:55:23 07/14/07 Sat [1]
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Nah i think he is really cute! In a rough kinda way. i love his eyes!! -- Rachelle, 01:37:58 07/16/07 Mon [1]
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RE: Texasbrats quote from Pamela. It makes me wonder why in the world people in the military have families if they can't put them first. If that's the choice you make for your life, then not having a family would logically be the sacrifice if you're not around for them anyway. Or don't start the family until you're out. It makes no sense to me. -- Theresa, 16:14:06 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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I think there are loads more people out there that consciously or subconsciously *not* put their family first but still have them. Loads of husbands and/or wives invest heavily (time and energy-wise) into their careers and their work. Granted, they are not physically away as long as would be in the military, but still they'd be seeing very little of their family and not really be involved in the upbringing of their children either. Not that it's always deliberately done, as the workplace is a gready place... Uhm, I had a point... I'm not sure I actually made it though. Just wanted to add this perspective to the whole 'put family first' ideal. If that were a requirement, I believe there'd be very few families left, unfortunately. -- Colie... too much research is demoralizing, 16:32:17 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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And a lot less over crowding and crime. I think it would be awesome if only people who put family first would have them. A lot fewer screwed up kids and unhappy spouses. -- Theresa, 16:56:59 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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I totally agree with both of your comments Theresa. That befuddles me as well. :o) -- KH, 19:15:07 07/12/07 Thu [1]
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ITA Colie (but then, we have yet to disagree, lol!). It is very difficult nowadays to put one’s family first always (even if I’m not saying one shouldn’t, it would be nice indeed if possible). Nevertheless, people could try to balance work and family, as one can’t take care of both at the same time with the same dedication. Thus situations like Sherwoods’ could be avoided. After all, I do believe it’s the quality time which is more important than the quantity. Of course, I may be wrong. -- jo, 06:34:13 07/13/07 Fri [1]
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Let's head inside for this one........ -- Texasbrat, 05:22:40 07/13/07 Fri [1]
Army, Unit, Family is really not any different than the way most companies have been for years. Remember your history about the industrial revolution, when people would work 18 hour days for just pennies a day, & would lose their job if they got hurt or didn't show up one day. And I also remember all the TV shows & movies about people making a decision about whether they wanted to continue climbing the corporate ladder, or get to know their family. At one time there was a real atmosphere in many companies that was company first, you know the "company man" idea. That was a time when it very unpopular for people to take off just to go see their kid's soccer game. That type of climate has changed during the last 20 or so years, but you can still find some companies or bosses with that type of mentality. My hubby worked for one, and he left after two years cuz he didn't want that type of life.
Army, Unit, Family, along with Duty, Honor, Country, are big deals to the military. But it doesn't mean they are down on families. It has to do with their training, from boot camp onward, they are training to defend our country at all costs. They are trained to do a job within their unit, for the job given the Army, so that they can ensure their family continues to enjoy the freedoms we have in this country. Family is what keeps them grounded, brings them home & the family has always, always fought the battle on the homefront, by living life one day at a time.
And another thing to remember, this show is focusing on women and men whose spouses have been deployed on a tour that is unaccompanied & in harm's way. The military has lots of jobs to do, and not all of the require the soldier to leave the base. Many of the soldiers go to work and come home to their family every night, just like civilians.
Okay, I'll shut up for now.
TB
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I think Frank is chauvinistic and too inflexible to realise it and try to change. He seem to believe he is the only one to be right in his home, and he tolerates his wife&son as long as they do what they are supposed to, ie what he tells them to, without showing them any respect at all as individuals. I should rewatch it, but the 1st ep did leave me with a most unpleasant feeling concerning Frank which was confirmed later on. That’s why I can’t talk about love, as to me what he feels for Denise doesn’t match the definition I give to the feeling, she’s more like a pet, whereas his son counts for nothing if not the surrogate man supposed to look after HIS wife. Sorry, I am aware I stretch it a bit, but it does look that way to me though I hope subsequent eps prove me wrong. -- jo, 06:35:51 07/13/07 Fri [1]
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He wouldn’t be a good father for a daughter, as he isn’t one for his son (sorry again, but the way he kicked Jeremy out of the house without trying to understand what had really happened, without knowing where his son could go and without even caring is inconceivable to me in spite of the gravity of the offense). A daughter would have to have no personality at all and always obey and agree with him and she would count even less as a person to him because during his absence she couldn’t be the man of the house and look after his wife. grrr! ok, I think I should give the poor guy a break, LOL! -- jo, 06:36:52 07/13/07 Fri [1]
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