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Date Posted: 13:38:46 11/03/08 Mon
Author: retired military wife
Subject: A hit, a miss, and other impressions about the season finale
Roland and Joan's storyline was the most realistic and well-written one. I've seen a gradual and realistic growth in the characters.
The writers had me wanting to cry along with Joan last night at her being deployed again. And wanting to give ole Evan Connors a solid right cross.
The event - a reality of military life amped up for TV television entertainment. Bravo!
I thought a chance at some more intense scenes were not delievered on with CJ when it came to her having to pack up Amanda's room. I'm glad they addressed it in some way, but I wish they'd have sent a little more time on it. It is another scenario that happens. A mother needing to leave her daughter's things as they were while she continues the grieving process, but the military life forcing her to pack up and end her grieving on their schedule and not hers...I thought that was a missed another opportunity for them to have dramatic material and some real emotional scences.
Okay, that's the good news.
The baby fight between Roxy and Trevor was another realistic idea and could've made for an intense dialogue and standoff between them, but when mixed in with the long lost relative that no one knew about wanting his share of Betty's distracted from the Trevor/Roxy dynamic it fell flat.
The Pamela storyline was not really interesting, but necessary to set up how both Connors are ladder climbing politically corrected to your face, what's in it for me behind your back people seeking recognitiion and advancement in both rank and social arenas. Another type that is definitely exists in the military. So for the sake of entertainment or to set up next season, I could handle watching it unfold.
I thought the idea of Emmalin running away the day of departure was a bit unrealistic. Though, if she'd have run away just after she found out I could have seen them running off and getting married so she wouldn't have to leave the base. (By the way, I thought that was what was going to happen because if they're running away together, then Logan just went AWOL and I can't see if she cared about him letting him get into that kind of trouble when they get caught. It still might be that, they're just driving off to some where that she can legally get married at seventeen without parental consent...or that is far enough away from post that they stand a chance of not getting seen.
Anyway... Denise/Mack/LeAnn and Frank/whatever her name is.
I do think that Frank was a little quick to go along with the idea last week, but I felt bad for him at the end of this episode. He was just starting to make progress in his relationship with his son and he's the one that gets 'caught.' Even though they're both doing it and Denise asked for the separation.
CB did her usual good job with the material, but her storyline is a trainwreck.
I don't know what they - writers, producers, etc can do to fix things.
If Denise goes back to Frank, then she's returning to a man that was seemingly easy for her to cheat on...why? because the man she picked to sleep with went back to his girlfriend. That makes her look shallow and no better off than when she started really, does it?
Should Frank even take her back?
And will Frank want her back now he's gotten a taste of what being single could offer him?
These are my random thoughts about the season finale.
What did you think? I know we don't know what the writers have in store for season three, but do you have any, "if I were hired today to write something that would fix this' ideas that you want to share?
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oops..forgot you can't go inside when you start a thread. -- retired military wife, 13:41:38 11/03/08 Mon [1]
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Well there is so much going on it is hard to keep it all straight. Let me take this inside where I can have a little thinking space. -- jagnut, 16:10:07 11/03/08 Mon [1]
Michael and CJ:
I don't want them to leave.
Knew Emmalyn and Logan were gonna try to run off.
A little surprised that was last scene.
Denise:
D and Mack:
Can't say I like the story.
Cannot believe the (ex) girlfiend had the nerve to show up at her house!
Good scenes with CJ. We all knew she would have a rough time accepting her leaving. Good friend to help with packing Amanda's room.
Don't really see her going back to Frank..
Don't really see her staying with Mack....
Needs to get on that motorcycle and clear her head!
Trevor and Roxie:
Yeah they need a little one. I agree the family inheritance story overshadowed the baby story and it should not have. They are a cute young couple.
Chase and Pamela:
Have at it! They sure did on the radio show.
Don't like the way they just took her off the air again.I think she should go back to being a police officer.
Joan and Roland: So hard to see the scene of Joan and the baby while she is talking about being deployed to Iraq. But I like the storyline because yes it happens.
And yeah we all know we don't like The Connors, and I guess the new one to take Michael Holden's place will be just as bad. I don't like how he told Joan of his decisions in front of Connor.
I just think for me and I am not saying the show was not good, it was just too much going on at one time. I guess I expected one major thing not ten.
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I too felt that the Burton's had the most plausible storyline this Season and they were a joy to watch. (inside) -- Jubellant, 15:53:21 11/03/08 Mon [1]
I am kind of glad they did not get overly heavy with the Amanda aspect of the storyline. I felt that Kim Delaney played it just right and Denise's quiet strength in supporting her was well done also. Sometimes somethings not said is enough. Them starting with Jeremy's photo was interesting. Staying with the Holden's, I think they are torn between leaving Amanda and getting away from the place that had their hearts torn out. Emmalin pretending everything was cool with her Mother and then running off like that really grated on my nerves. Pulling a stunt like that when her parents are still dealing with Amanda's death, when they had bent over backwards to try to support her feelings for Logan was just so selfish and thoughtless and you would think she would have learned after Quinn. Someone who would participate in such a thing says volumes about the guy's character and he is none to trustworthy or mature if he has to sneak off with a child. He is creepy.
The Pamela SL was interesting. Chase almost seemed to revert to his just does not get it days in Season One. I don't think Pamela was looking for sympathy but a little empathy or appreciation for what she had given up would have been nice. She knows she made the choice but knowing that choice continues to be valued would be nice as she probably was having a what if moment. I hope they give her something meatier next season.
The nephew going after the bar was alright but having Trevor jump on this as possibly an opportunity to get what he wanted after all Roxy's hard work not only to rebuild but to get her GED to feel more competent did not sit well with me. Roxy should have told him to go deposit his sperm at a bank if he was that desperate.
Now for the Sherwoods, I feel for Jeremy who I think was just beginning to bond and feel special in his Dad's eyes. Frank caving in to Jordanna's advances while claiming to think that vows mean something still bothers me but maybe it portrays how easy it is to get caught up in the moment especially when the base of one's marriage relationship is not solid. Denise seems to now be intoxicated with forbidden fruit. I too have long felt she had been more affected by the Hump Bar bombing than anyone noticed. It is almost as if she has had a psychotic break of some sort or is in a state of shock. Her behaviour is so contrary and bizarre at times. Forgetting that Mac was going back to continue his rehab, being willing to see where it would all lead and making changes at home as if she plans to actually stay there. Announcing to everyone that she is separated as if that excuses her behaviour gets to me. If she is so separated, why is she sneaking around. She is always telling people to say the truth but she has not been truthful herself. It is almost as if she is keeping Frank around just in case her freedom does not pan out. I am still very curious to see how they explain this radical behaviour change. There seems to be no one there to challenge what is going on with her or someone to whom she can confide in without feeling like she is being judged for her thoughts. If she feels she must move on do so but to act how she is with Frank's ring on her finger is not right. I agree that CB is doing a great job. Too good because she is making me very annoyed sometimes. I have to keep telling myself that it is Denise that people are hurling the unflattering remarks about. If she has started off a la JR I could deal with it better as just a conniving character. But she started off as a Pamela Ewing and has turned into Charlene!
The person who recaps AW for Zap2it had a interesting theory. I hope Season 3 gets back to being about real drama rather than this contrived stuff they are making up. If not I guess I will just readjust my expectations and just enjoy the acting.
Evan and Jennifer are just too blatant with their agenda's. They are really in your face about everything but I guess they both feel they are entitled. These people usually walk around like they are untouchables. It was nice to see Joan get the upper hand a couple of times with Evan but you know how tough it is to skin a cat and those Conners seem to have nine lives. What bugged me was when the new General spoke to Joan in front of Evan. You would think that would be a private conversation and time me it showed a great lack of respect for her and the position she held. Also something does not seem to be too lovey dovey with Jennifer and Evan. He never seems to be too pleased with her.
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Boy, we women have a lot of power! Let me start by saying that I don’t agree with Denise’s affair with Mac. I didn’t mind any of her other activities, right up to the tattoo, and I never thought she had an affair with Ghetti based on a single kiss. What I find interesting… (inside) -- doc, 17:48:43 11/03/08 Mon [1]
…is that folks who find HUGE fault with Denise for her affair with Mac, seem to almost dismiss Frank relationship with Jordanna. They begrudgingly acknowledge it wasn’t the “brightest thing” for him to do, but then justify it with their next breathe, as being Denise’s fault too…if Denise had asked for a separation…turn about is fair play…etc., etc. Bottom line, they both did wrong! They both cheated!
Apparently, no one else has noticed, but when Jeremy sees his dad & Jordanna, it’s NOT the SAME day. If you’re paying attention, the first “mutual meeting” between Frank & Jordanna was at HER tent. Then the show continued on through a few more days (2-3 at least), before we again see Frank & Jordanna, this time leaving HIS tent. They were cozy & affectionate, and Jordana was still fastening her clothes. From that scene, it’s obvious that something has happened between them more than once, as in AGAIN! As in at least twice, on 2 separate nights…that is most definitely an affair…a ongoing, & from that scene, a pleasurable mutual affair. Frank isn't doing anything against his will, and it isn't Jordanna fault that Frank gave in, it's Frank's!
I think both characters are WRONG, since they haven’t agreed to divorce. Personally, I hate the cheating story line, but I liked the original Denise story line where Denise was trying exert some independence & find herself again. I have never been a fan a Frank, as many of you know. He is controlling, rigid & rarely took his wife’s feelings into consideration in his daily life. He IS NOT just “old fashioned”…he’s a control freak. I have a family extended family member who has been in a similar marriage for >30 years. She has absolutely lost herself, and even worse, her 4 daughters never had a chance to learn about normal respect or independence between a man & women/husband & wife. The really sad thing is that Lifetime & Army Wives had the chance to pursue an important story line with Denise, and they chose to take the path of cheap & tawdry, rather than taking the time & doing the research to write the story right.
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Oh, by the way, I thought the finale was anti-climatic & boring. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the next few months wondering what will happen next. Boy, do I miss JAG...now there great finales! -- doc, 17:53:05 11/03/08 Mon [1]
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Amen Doc! Talk about double standard! Not one mention in the above thread about how GUILTY Frank is of cheating, its all on Denise & Denise is the only one who has cheated. Well guess what? Mr. Holier-than-know Frank is also a cheater. As of right now, neither Denise or Frank knows of the other's affair, & for people to blame Denise for Frank's cheating is ludicrous! Just like blaming Frank for Denise's choice is ludicrous! Both made their decisions, & both will have to live with the consequences. Inside... -- Jennifer, 07:02:05 11/04/08 Tue [1]
Why should Denise take Frank back after he's slept with Jordanna? And worse yet, their only child caught his father in the act, how do you think Denise should react when she finds out this?
Shouldn't Frank be charged with conduct unbecoming or something like that? How would his precious image look then? He can't have his wife riding a motorcycle because it would reflect poorly on him, well gee Frank how is it going to reflect that you can't keep the mouse in the house and are cheating with someone in your unit. Like Doc said, its more than once, they both have shared the others quarters, again shouldn't there be some kind of repercussions?
I didn't watch the finale, so my information was gotten from my Twinny, who told me what happened. And by reading the various boards, you basically can go frame by frame LMAO!
Like Doc, Ghetti wasn't an affair...it was a kiss...it was WRONG no question about it, but if Frank couldn't even forgive the kiss there is no way he'll forgive something more intimate. But of course he'll EXPECT Denise to forgive him, because I do see him as having a double standard just like most others, its okay for him to cheat, but not okay for Denise. IMHO they are both WRONG! I too wish they hadn't gone there, but they have and you can't take it back.
If the Sherwood's do get back together, well Denise is going to have to worry the next Frank deploys, seeing how easily he got involved with Jordanna. Maybe we will find out that this isn't Frank's first dalliance, who knows? The only way they can survive is both need to forgive, neither can hold it over the head of the other, and Frank needs to realize that his attitude is a part of their problem. To this day, Frank still continues to blame everything on Denise, and I really hope that he doesn't slam Denise to Jeremy as a way of justifying his actions. Frank made his bed, just like Denise, and there is no one to blame but himself.
I didn't watch so I can't comment on the rest...except to say it sounds contrived and predictable, and from reading the various MB's there are a lot of unsatisfied viewers who quite honestly feel the show has lost its groove. Like Jubellant said, did this have anything to do with Katherine Fugate's leaving? Don't know, but the writing is definetly sub-par. You had a fresh, creative show, and now you've gone the way of all the others with cliche's, stereotypical behaviour (cheating in Hollywood is the norm), the "bad" couple that are so obvious with their actions and are more annoying than they are useful. and you keep it up the show won't last much longer cause you've driven away your core audience.
I ask this of military people....Michael accepted another command. He gave up the command at Fort Marshall, so even if they decide to stay on (cause of the bratty Emmalin) that doesn't necessarily mean he will be back in charge at Fort Marshall does it? Which means the trainwreck of the Connor's and their destruction continues...who needs that? The show didn't need it, but the writers (current group) have no clue except to keep piling on, and the problem is you keep piling on without any sense of resolution or positiveness (is this even a word) and people will get worn out and just tune out.
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But what does a separation really mean? Does it include seeing other people? -- t, 12:56:26 11/04/08 Tue [1]
I would agree that Frank having relations with someone in his command is wrong. He could be courtmartialed.
If he wanted to see someone outside his command, then it probably wouldn't be wrong.
Understand we don't get to see everything that was said between Denise and Frank. Maybe seeing other people was expected so that could determine whether or not they wanted to be together.
One of the problem when Men marry younger women, they don't understand that the woman will grow as a person. The gap between them gets smaller, they become equal.
Frank is having a problem with Denise because he doesn't understand her growth of a person, that she has become independent.
She probably hasn't need Frank to survive in her daily life for a long time.
She probably has passed him intellectually since she has become a nurse. He has probably stagnated.
She also has become a leader in her community. Even CJ listens to her.
Maybe Frank's time with Jordanna will allow him to understand the growth process that all young women go through. They don't stay 19 all their lives.
I'm more disappointed that tptb have Denise involved in an affair with a much younger man who has conned her into sleeping with her.
His girlfriend probably reacted normally to his disability and needed time to ajust to the situation.
A strong Denise, whom we have come to expect this season, should have counseled him, tell him to give his girl friend time to ajust, not jump into bed with him.
Denise has become a beautiful free spirit who is exploring her new freedoms as a self sufficient person. What is the rush to get her involve with someone else.
Let her enjoy the freedom of being independent. She doesn't have to tend to her son anymore. Her husband isn't around.
Let her continue to grow as a person before making her dependent on another man.
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I don't know....Frank brought up the "rules" of the separation, and asked Denise about dating. She didn't say she wasn't going to, she said "I'm not planning on it..." and then she asked Frank the same, and he replied "Not likely in Iraq"...so both I don't think planned to have an affair, but they both ended up having one. For me personally even though you are separated you are still married, and NO CHEATING. If you want to start dating & sleeping with others, then get divorced & end things properly. At least both Denise & Frank are in the same leaky boat, they both have cheated. -- Jennifer, 13:23:23 11/04/08 Tue [1]
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I don't excuse Frank's behavior... I could rant about the wrong doings of both Frank and Denise...and for that matter the behavior of the people they are involved with....(inside) -- retired military wife, 12:01:07 11/04/08 Tue [1]
Both Mac and Jordanna know that Frank and Denise are married, separated or not. And among the finger pointing some finger shaking must fall on them as well.
If a guy opens up and says he's feeling wounded because his marriage is in trouble, I wouldn't be inviting him to my tent for coffee..and then kiss him when he got there.
My all means Frank should have pulled away. And yes, I did notice the location this time and agree that it was not that once in her tent, but is now a full fledged, no excuses affair. And yes, I do put blame on Frank for getting caught up in it. He preaches strenghth of character to his son, but is a weak man himself - another strike against his conduct.
Mac in the case of Denise is the same kind of thing. He complimented, and then to some degree took advantage to get things started. Does that disolve Denise of blame and shoulder her share of the responsibility - Hell no!
Ultimately, regardless of the cause of either of their temptations, both Denise and Frank are guilty of cheating and have to take responsibility for their actions in order to move forward, whether it be together or apart.
I wasn't trying to say that I believed Frank was innocent or it was okay for him and not Denise.
I do in terms of the show's writing link Frank's behavior with the Denise storyline and therefore included it in the statement that Denise's storyline was a trainwreck.
In the future I will keep my thoughts to myself. I don't get the impression that this militarty wife's opinions are welcome here.
I feel properly chastised and will confine myself to quarters immediately.
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That's not true about your opinions not being welcomed....people have a differing opinion than yours, that doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong. They are just that, opinions. I apologize if that's how you feel, that certainly wasn't the intent. Even though I may not agree, I do like reading other POV's on things, because we are all individuals & we aren't going to see situations the same way or agree all the time. That would be boring, LOL! Like I said, I'm just tired of all the Denise bashing. Of course she was wrong, no question about it. Both chose to have a sexual affair once they were separated (Ghetti wasn't an affair IMHO), & its just discouraging to see Denise get bashed for it while glossing over the fact that Frank has done exactly the same thing. -- Jennifer, 13:20:34 11/04/08 Tue [1]
It just seems as though there is a complete different standard between if a man cheats and if a woman cheats...cheating is cheating! Its wrong, and both parties are guilty of it. Heck Roland wasn't hammered near as hard as Denise has been getting, and its just troublesome that again she gets slammed unmercifully while her husband has done EXACTLY the same thing (and was caught by their son) and its glossed over. That's all I was trying to say...
Again my apologies, I hope you will continue to offer your opinion :)
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Let me ask you this....what, if anything, should happen to Frank because he's conducted his affair with someone in his unit, while on duty in Iraq? Can he be charged, or is that just a myth? I believe they are of the same rank, so not sure if fraternization applies. I just don't want anything to happen to Jeremy, as much as I hate Frank I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy, i.e. getting caught by your son & then having something happen to your son, the guilt would be pretty heavy IMHO. -- Jennifer, 13:26:57 11/04/08 Tue [1]
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I will not comment about Frank as to my beliefs on what, if anything should happen to Frank, but I'll ask your question about conduct/charges... -- retired military wife, 14:00:04 11/04/08 Tue [1]
We've been out for a number of years so something may have changed, but I think it is basically still the same.
If Frank and Jordanna are of the same level (officers) and not in the same direct chain of command, which given that she has a different rate (job) than Frank that is likely to be the case there is no issue with them being involved from that standpoint. In civilain terms, you might sleep with your friend's secretary, but if you have no control over her assignments or reviews for raise or promotion it may not be a good idea, but - depending on company policy -may not be grounds for disciplinary action.
However, there is a law against adultery in the miltary. It is often not prosecuted, but it is in the book.
Why he probably would not be charged or the charges dismissed without punishment?
Here is the answer:
Frank is separated. He has a witness to that effect, the chaplain that he and Denise saw when she said she wanted a separation. Given that, and the fact he's in a war zone (no double standard here, it would be the case if it were a female officer in Frank's place)they most likely would dismiss any charges, even if they were filed in the first place.
I know that doesn't give you my opinion, but I hope it answers your question in regards to what if any charges could be filed.
I did take it a step further and tried to explain why the charges in Frank's case, in particular, it probably would not happen in the real military, but I have no idea what the writers have in store for him.
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Hope you stick around military wife. I think people focus more on Denise because she is the main character and is calling the shots as to how this separation will go. Frank is no saint here. The way he has been written leaves the door open for the sympathy vote even if he was the catalyst that started Denise's carefree behaviour. When I saw an intelligent professional person like Denise asking Mac where they should go from here and acting like a infatuated teenager, I thought this is just so lame. I optimistically hoped their counselling would lead to something fruitful. Alas any true mature theme that showed the compromise necessary to maintain a long distance marriage afloat would take intelligent writing. It is just so much easier to let everyone sleep around. Pathetic! -- Jubellant, 14:36:34 11/04/08 Tue [1]
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uestion for military wife; isn't there like a 6 month deferment after birth of a child due to need for breat feeding? i do not think Army deploys new moms quite that fast. -- Linda R, 13:08:45 11/23/08 Sun [1]
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Answer to deployment question.... -- retired military wife, 16:28:07 11/26/08 Wed [1]
As far as I know, that is still the preferred time frame. However, as long as the mother is physically fit, such as past her four to six week recovery time she is "deployable". Which means that if the call of her country is considered of greater importance, (a particular rate -type of job- is short staffed or she possesses a certain expertise - whether a leadersip or experience because of her previous deployment or a particular rate - she can be deployed at any time, at the government's discretion.
It would be highly unlikely that they'd go against perferred policy in peace time, but with the current situation it would not be unheard of to have a mother deployed.
As to Joan's personal case, because of her complications afterwards, I don't know that she'd be considered physically fit. I don't know if the recovery time for her complications would have ended by now or not. You'd have to ask someone in the medical know about that one.
I hope that answered your question. I'd have answered it sooner, but I do not check this board regualarly any more.
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