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Date Posted: 16:24:04 10/20/08 Mon
Author: jagnut
Subject: previews for next week
So what did you all think about those previews for next week???
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I'm in distress...(more inside) -- retired miltary wife, 18:18:09 10/20/08 Mon [1]
I want to hang in there to support CB in her work, but perhaps because I'm a military wife, retired, I'm having a real hard time handling what turns they've taken with CB's character, Denise. I'm not downing CB. She's handling the material well, but I do have a problem with the writers or producers, etc for moving the show or her character in a direction that seems more soap opera than drama.
I've been been married a lot of years, more than Denise and Frank - twenty five plus. I think they first season her character wanting to go back to her career, etc to 'find herself' again with her adult child moving on with his life and feeling alone because your husband is deployed was a very realistic and accurate portrayl of something that really happens with women in general, but with the husband away the change in a wife or husband (the one at home) would seem like an overnight change and cause some marital strife. I know that affairs happen in both the civialian and military world. I just think they had Marilyn have an affair and they don't need to have every woman who is unhappy in her marriage find a man before the divorce. I know that Denise and Frank are separated, but it still seems to soon and the affair aspect overdone. If Denise's personal growth had led to a separation and/or divorce before she was interested in another man - the doctor - I think I would be handling the storyline better. However, with the kiss with the doctor (again, had that just brought to light she wasn't happy and she told Frank that there was no working it out, she wanted a divorce flat out, no gray area) before she moved on I think I could handle the story line. Because the way they're going at the moment, it makes it look like she's just attention/sex straved - IMHO -and a lot of military wives go months and years if their men are away without either from their deployed husbands without cheating.
Sorry, I rambled on, I maybe too close to this subject to be objective. Maybe I should've kept my mother shut.
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Glad you spoke up (more inside) -- Jubellant, 16:59:46 10/21/08 Tue [1]
If Denise had been introduced to us in a different manner or if we got to see what led her to her actions of late, her recent escapades might be a bit easier to swallow. All her actions, disapproval of Roland cheating, her eye balling Roxy when they first met, her saying she regretted her actions with Getti, that she was not planning on dating, that she still loves Frank, that he is her best friend and her telling Michael that her situation is not that simple and it is not just a case of her being shallow and restless, do not add up to her current behaviour. She goes off and does whatever comes to mind just to prove she can do whatever she wants. She does not seem to care about the consequences or even who she hurts by her actions. The character is so inconsistent that you wonder what alien has possessed her body. If we had seen an exchange of emails between her and Frank, if we saw her confide in her best friend what she was going through, we might have a clue what was going on. Right now it seems like she is just a caricature and the writers are using her in a tabloid fashion to shock the viewers.
There is no character development lately just rash acts. Though we may not have liked what happened with her and Getti we could see the hows and whys and the circumstance in which that kiss occurred and her feelings of guilt. Her ignoring Frank's call was just plain cold and not in character for someone who sought out information so she could be there when her husband deployed. It is not how you treat someone you will always love and who is your best friend.
The only thing I can come up with is that the Hump Bar explosion really left her in a state of shock. She was stunned by her inaction and did not like who she had become. She has laid the blame squarely at Frank's feet but since she now feels she can do whatever she wants and he does not seem able to do a thing about it, it makes you wonder if she was just using him as an excuse for her lack of initiative and inability to stand up for herself.
I too am a admirer of CB's acting talents. I am just so confused with Denise as they have her going all over the place. Maybe she is bipolar. One second she is this caring rationale professional and the next she is like a child gone wild. My head is spinning as you never know which Denise you will see next.
I hope they get back to the heartfelt stories of Season One. This sensationalism IMO just cheapens the show and makes it seem almost cartoonish. I thought this was something different, unique and innovative. The writer's have gotten sloppy and lazy and are turning this show from the extraordinary into the very ordinary and at times the unbelievable. Too bad! I hope they right the apple cart soon before the viewers start to jump the humvee!!
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I agree with you, retired military wife. And Jubellant, your reasoning makes sense, but I'm still feeling absolutely let down. Denise was a character I could see myself in, I was a military wife from the age of 19 up to and beyond my husbands retirement, 20 years later. I know all those issues happen, but why does 'spreading your wings' have to be, self determination, job, standing up to an overbearing husband and then.....screwing around with a guy nearly your sons age??? -- mkim Another retired military wife and fan of CB., 13:27:10 10/28/08 Tue [1]
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Getti was a disappointment but at least you could see the evolution. The Mac SL is just weird. The restaurant kiss could sort of be explained away but hitting the sheets just made Denise look really cheap. She certainly is not being discreet about anything. I just find this SL so bizarre and unbelievable. Maybe something from the explosion hit her in the head, -- Jubellant, 15:45:22 10/28/08 Tue [1]
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more from me after this Sunday's episode...(inside) -- retired military wife, 15:48:48 10/28/08 Tue [1]
I was not feeling any better at the end of Sunday's episode and couldn't figure out why, when I knew what was going to happen that I was having such trouble.
Today, the answer occurred to me.
If we saw Denise in counseling, whether it be to learn to communicate better in her marriage. To deal with her inablility to react during/after the bombing, etc. I could see how she would determine that there was nothing left for her with Frank. However, what occured to me is without anything like that, and they way it happened on screen - kissing by the water and then home in bed - I thought Denise came across as a horny teenager. Full of lust, maybe, but not much depth.
I know there are those who are holding out for some sort of revelatin that it is some kind of breakdown, whether it be from the abuse she suffered at the hand of her son or the traumtic event of the bombing, but I'm not seeing that in the character.
This leads me to wonder if anyone has an idea of where they're taking the storyline. We know that CB can play the role of someone with PTSD from her role in JAG so if that were on the writers' table somewhere I think we'd be getting some sense of that from CB performance.
Another thing that I find absolutely over the top is that she did it in the bed she shares with Frank. I know that women can and do that, but I've got a couple of problems with it in this case.
She says that Frank is the only man she's been with sexually. That means that the bed she shares with Frank would be a reminder of that. So for this particular character to do it for the first time with anyone else in that bed seems odd to me.
Another think I find wrong with it is that she's a child of a military man, Army too, I believe, and the fact that she wouldn't be more discreet in her 'affairs' by doing it in the house she shares with Frank seems also out of character.
I know she's going through a time when she wants to say that what people think doesn't matter to her, but I think that would be more centered around her personally, (ie riding the motorcycle) than to her family.
There is also the factor that a neighbor could say in front of Jeremy - if she doesn't care about Frank's feelings any longer - "Denise how's that guy you were seeing?"
I don't see how the writers' can undo this mess.
There are so many things that happen while your husband/spouse is away that surely they could have come up with something else to cause friction in a couple.
The fact is that in the US, at least, one out of two marriages end in divorce. It is also a fact that the divorce rate among the military is higher. With that said, I have no problem with characters getting a divorced on the show, even CB's, but why did we have to go the cheating route.
Roland cheated. Pamela had the kissing/temptation with the art teacher, and now Denise.
To those who say it's drama and entertainment. I agree to a point. With such a powerful season one, and support from military wives, I think TPTB have a responsibility to not make all military spouses look like cheaters.
Military wives are a tough bunch. We have to be because we do a lot. It's like being a housewife times twenty in the underrated jobs category.
If they change their show label to soap opera, I'd watch for entertainment, but I think when you say you're a drama you owe to the people you represent to show some shred of respect for those people in that profession whether it be a police drama where you're shown the realities of policemen either on the job or at home, or attorneys where they have to make judgement calls about whether to represent someone they think is probably guilty to uphold the system they believe in that says everyone has a right to counsel, a fair trial, etc. And yes, I think that includes showing crooked cops or bad lawyers, but when you have five main characters I don't think the odds that two of them are going to be "bad" one is on the fence and two of them are good. I don't think that's a fair representation especially when there are so many other things that happen to military families, some of which occur in any family, but some occur only in military families.
I know they want to leave the core group together. Then, introduce characters that are more disposalable. They could be on the show for a few weeks, half a season to get us attached to them, and then they'd be transferred.
In the case of divorce. Denise could've been the one that got divorced, and one of a couple of things could've happened. Denise could have been seen only at Betty's or the hospital or other interactions with the current Army wives, or been out for a few episodes to mark time, then she could return being married to another Army guy.
One last pet peeve and I'll disappear back into lurkdom again.
The stories of Pamela's stalker, the story line about drugs in the school, even Joan PTSD were resolved in what, two or three episodes, then why is it that if Denise is suffering from some mental breakdown is it taking so long for us to find that out. Not to be resolved, completely understood, but not to be suspected by anyone and questions raised, etc.
Seems to me they may have gotten themselves confused with another show....LOST.
I'll try to keep my thoughts to myself after the season finale.
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I have expressed in other posts about the lack of continuity or depth with the storylines. There seems to be a lack of development and one just has to try to fill in the blanks. I don't mind watching the show for the entertainment value but after such a fantastic Season One I am not impressed with the bait and switch. It is just so hard to get a feel for Denise as she seems irrational and for no good reason. Will look forward to your thoughts after the finale. -- Jbellant, 16:26:20 10/28/08 Tue [1]
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They are not at her house, they are Mack's hotel room.. -- lurks, 16:50:45 10/28/08 Tue [1]
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I must have been too upset my the other things happening to notice. If they were in his hotel room, I feel only a very small fraction better about where the event took place, at least. Thank you for clarifying that for me. -- retired military wife, 11:28:23 10/29/08 Wed [1]
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I didn't watch the episode, but from what I gather Frank cheated too. Why not any scorn or criticism of Frank's affair? IMHO, Jeremy has a much better chance of learning about Frank's cheating than he does Denise's, especially since he's over in the desert with his father. I am so sick of the double standard. I am by no means excusing what Denise has done, & its one of the reasons I'm not watching AW at this point. Inside for the rest.... -- Jennifer, 15:25:58 10/30/08 Thu [1]
I agree that the only way they can redeem Denise is if we see her in counseling, and pretty darn quick! I know it won't happen this year, but by golly the writers had better do something at the beginning of next season or I fear they will lose a ton of viewers. There aren't many people happy with the direction they've gone with Denise, and many many fans of Catherine Bell's are just plain ticked off (not at her mind you, she's doing a fabulous job portraying Denise but at the writing). You do not destroy a beloved character, and what they've done with Denise is inexcusable. I could see the mistake with Ghetti...but then the writers kept piling it on, and I seriously wonder if it was their intention to make Denise an unlikeable and detested character. At this point I'd have to say yes on that, because its been so out of the blue. The character is nothing like she was. No I don't want Denise to go back to being a controlled housewife who can only do things because her husband "lets" her. Don't even get me started on Frank LOL! But where is the caring, compassionate yet strong woman?
I can only hope that Denise is suffering from some sort of PTS. She still feels guilty about not doing more after the bombing, plus surviving that in itself has got to alway be in the back of her mind. She never really grieved for Ghetti, and now her only child is in the warzone. She's got a bully for a husband, someone who has never supported her, someone who expects her to be behind him all the way and do what he wants and needs her to do, but when the situation is reversed he's unwilling to do the same. Sure Frank came around, but only after Denise had to fight him tooth and nail, I mean seriously how exhausting is that? Not only mentally, but physically to have to fight for any type of support, its just plain wrong. And Frank belittles, he talks down to her, I think we need to see both in counseling starting with Denise.
She has to own up to her mistakes, and Frank (unlike in the past session where he blamed it all on Denise) has to do the same. But they've better start soon, because now that you've gone there, you can't take it back. You've totally destroyed Denise, and by golly now its time to start turning it around. Or else you will lose viewers. I know I want to LIKE the character that my favorite actress is playing, and its very hard to like Denise at the moment. And that's disheartening, because for the life of me I can't figure why they've gone there. I just don't get it...
Okay I've rambled enough....I do think Frank needs to be criticized as well, for his Mr. Holier-than-now-attitude he's done exactly the same as Denise. He's cheated...with someone in his unit, and enough with the double standard.
I guess the only good is that since they both have cheated, they are on equal footing with that, and one isn't any better than the other. Frank can't hold it over Denise's head (like he does the kiss), when he's done exactly the same thing.
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I hope there is some lesson learned, some redemption for Denise and for Frank. Its really weird, I havent really liked Frank, but when they tried counseling I felt sorry for him, because now matter how hard Frank was trying( and I really think he was, that was a GOOD ep. btw) he just didnt get it and couldnt see Denise' growth as anything other than betrayal. Inside..... -- mkim, 22:46:29 10/30/08 Thu [1]
I really thought that they'd have then divorce, and I'd understand that, Denise had a right to the life she wanted without having to fight Frank every step of the way. But I just wish she'd have gotten a divorce and THEN began a relationship.
As I said, I hope they redeem her and Frank, this is crappy.
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It seems they both fell off the fidelity wagon and no Frank did not hesitate. I must admit I don't like the way the character has turned either and no I don't mean that against Catherine Bell in anyway....... -- jagnut, 15:20:36 11/01/08 Sat [1]
What I don't understand is it seems to me like everytime we see Denise we see Mac. They are at the hospital together, they are at Betty's together, they are at the restaruant together. Now we all know the post can not be that big of a place that everyone would not know. They are not even trying to be discreet about it.This is a far cry from the woman who had such difficulty over a kiss with Getty.
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Ok one more try it does seem that Frank and Denise fell off the fidelity wagon at the same time. I just think there is too much going on at one time. I must admit it is a big change in Denise from the girl who was so upset about kissing Getti to her actions now. The Mack and D. storyline is hard to accept because it has been tossed at us without any warning. I would have felt better if they had stayed with Getti at least there was a stronger story behind it. I can not understand why all of a sudden everytime we see Denise we see Mack. You would think they would be concerned on post about everyone seeing them together but no they are everywhere together! -- jagnut, 21:42:34 11/01/08 Sat [1]
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It will be interesting to see how they ultimately wrap up this storyline. We probably won't find anything out until next Season which is kind of frustrating as they are really dragging this out when every other SL gets wrapped up pretty quickly! It is pretty tough to figure out Denise's motivation lately especially as she is still married to Frank. Frank folded a little too quickly for a man that takes his vows so seriously. It seems as if they are taking him down the same out of character path as Denise. They are all over the map with this couple and I am curious to see if they can come up with a plausible explanation and resolution to it all. -- Jubellant, 22:11:19 11/01/08 Sat [1]
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