VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Main index ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1234[5]6 ]
Subject: Willistown - The Final Word


Author:
Dave Arnold
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 14:50:55 09/09/02 Mon

I have just spoken with Don Miller of the HPCHG. He has voiced his opinion on the posting of the Willistown incident. Additionally, he has indicated that the officers of Willistown are not happy with the discussion and my outspoken opinion. He has also indicated that those outside the Eastern US do not share the same feelings about the events of 9-11. In that regard, and in a nutshell, let me make these points so that Don, the HPCHG, the Willistown PD and any other interested party can rest assured that they understand my point on the matter.

1) Don has indicated the arrestee DID enter a "posted area" that was off limits per the posted signs. That is a no-no in my book and the arrestee deserved to be confronted. I have already stated that in a previous post. According to the media, the area was not posted other than "Police Parking Only" which is a far cry from "Authorized Personnel Only". So we do have two versions here; the media's and Don Miller's.

2) Don has indicated that, once confronted, the arrestee DID escalate the situation with his attitude. I do not support that person's action and I fully support the police action of ordering him from the property. I have already stated that in this post: http://www.voy.com/22662/8785.html where I said: "I also will give the WTPD the benefit of the doubt and believe that he (Mohammad) acted like an ass when confronted and probably deserved to go to jail."

3) Don has indicated that the next day, when the arrestee returned, he once again acted disorderly when confronted. He was then arrested on a VALID Pennsylvania law. I supported the police action taken in that regard.

4) Don has indicated that the upcoming Willistown event is NOT a car show. As I stated, I am aware of that. It is not an event that is intended to display cars for trophies as one would expect the definition of a show to be. It is an opportunity to display vehicles during a MEMORIAL EVENT and the members of the HPCHG are invited to attend whether or not they bring a car. (in post http://www.voy.com/22662/8796.html "Indistinct that it's not a car show. Not a show for awards, etc. but the HPCHG is attending with their cars…")

5) Don has indicated that the Willistown event will go on. I never once indicated that it should be cancelled.

6) Don has indicated that the Willistown PD and others are unhappy that I have stated, "It's a trap!". I am fully aware that it is not a trap. I am fully aware that the WPD will not arrest a photographer who attends. I did point out that WPD was aware that there was a hobby. I also posed the question as to whether they would arrest a photographer.

7) Don has indicated that he and "others" are unhappy about what has been posted on this discussion board. Sorry you feel that way. You're not alone. Even I am unhappy about some of the things that get posted here but people do still have the right to voice and print opinions.

8) Don has indicated that I do not share in the bereavement of 9-11 and the heightened sense of security since 9-11 because I don't live in the region.

First, and I voiced this to Don, I ask that no one on the East coast negate the feelings of any American "outside" your area. We all cried as hard as you did. It affected us all just as much.

Second, I worry every day about if, when and where another terrorist event will take place. Please don't negate the feelings and fears of the rest of America just because you were within 100 miles of the events.

Third, my opinion is stated very clearly in other posts. I do not believe the events of 9-11 should interfere with basic American rights whether it's picture taking, free movement, free speech or even the ability of an American to be critical of the Government. I do believe we need safeguards but not at the expense of freedom this country has enjoyed for the past 225+ years.

9) Don has demanded a retraction of my opinions and has issued an ultimatum that if my opinions continue to be voiced, the HPCHG will no longer provide information to copcar dot com in relation to their upcoming events. What can I say to this? As I understand it, it wouldn't be the first time a HPCHG member has been excluded or banished because of a personal opinion. If the HPCHG or Don decides that the free publicity on my Web site is detrimental to their organization because of my expressed opinions, who is this really going to hurt, me or the hobbyist looking for show information and a group to join?

Don mentioned that he had sent me the Constitution of the HPCHG when I became a charter member. That probably is true. And I must have missed that portion of the article that states by joining, I am no longer able to voice or write my opinions. I also failed to recognize that I swore to support any police action, regardless of its legal or illegal status.

Fact of the matter is, if the mindset of the entire HPCHG group is to dictate whether a member can express an opinion or what they can place on a Web site, then maybe I want no part of it. With that said, I no longer wish to be part of your organization. Too many people have died for this country fighting so the rest of us can have and express our personal opinions, my older brother being one of them. Thank you, but I'll keep what he gave me: the freedom to speak my mind.

Let's make this perfectly clear. This post is NOT a retraction. It is intended as a clarification of my opinion. I support Willistown's department and Community Day. I do not support the idea that we as a nation, you as a region, Pennsylvania as a state and Willistown as a township have the right to limit a person's freedom on the basis that 3000 people died in a horrific event. I do not support the notion that because I live in Texas, I am not sympathetic to the victims of 9-11 nor insensitive to the nation's security. And I do not support the notion that vehicles which are intended to be identified as law enforcement vehicles need to be closely guarded from photographers because of the SLIGHT potential that the picture will be used by some Afghani cave dweller to attack the local shopping mall.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
Subject Author Date
Retraction demand?Giant16:40:03 09/09/02 Mon

WILLISTON?HPCHG?DAVE A?IT NEVER ENDS19:51:02 09/09/02 Mon

You are all gonna love my newest show: "America's Scariest Police Parking Lot Videos" (NT)Sheriff John Bunnell21:41:48 09/09/02 Mon

WillistownJoe01:23:13 09/10/02 Tue

Who really wins here?A Friend of Ford and this hobby02:22:42 09/10/02 Tue

Excuse me?Chaplain F13:03:14 09/10/02 Tue

WillistownFrank S.14:15:12 09/10/02 Tue



Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.