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Date Posted: 00:16:32 12/05/20 Sat
Author: No name
Author Host/IP: c-98-223-33-148.hsd1.in.comcast.net / 98.223.33.148
Subject: Judges score at Oireachtas in Indy
So still trying to understand judges...if for one dance, one judge places your dancer 5th, second judge 12th and third one places her 57th (3 places from last !!!) what would be the reason for the third judge to place her so low. After re watching the dance it was no way the worst dance in the group, but rather top half. We are happy with o er all placement our daughter got but donât understand when there is one judge totally off.
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Irish Dance is both art and sport -- No name, 07:42:36 12/06/20 Sun (d4-50-169-34.try.wideopenwest.com/50.4.34.169)
While our dancers are judged on how well they technically execute their steps, there is also some artistry involved and the judging is subjective. Different judges look for different things. Some focus on turnout, others on sounds, etc. The sooner you make your peace with that, the happier you (and your dancer) will be.
I was volunteering at a feis earlier in the year and a judge came in for a break and said they had just watched a grades level dancer that had beautiful extension, turnout, etc, but timing was off and this judge was so frustrated because they wanted to place the dancer, but could not in good conscience because they were off time.
So the process can be frustrating for them, too. I would talk to your TC and see what their thoughts are.
Hope this is helpful!
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Unlike figure skating, there's laid out requirement in the scoring from each judge. -- Inside, 09:23:25 12/06/20 Sun (cpe-65-189-55-125.cinci.res.rr.com/65.189.55.125)
One year, DD's competition had a dancer fall twice in one of the rounds. The floor wasn't slippery. Two judges scored her well for that round, while the third judge placed her nearly last. She fell again during the third round, although the judges wouldn't have known that. She qualified for worlds.
She is an absolutely beautiful dancer with a lovely technique. She just can't seem to be able to execute it without frequently losing her balance. One judge seemed to feel this was a huge issue and scored accordingly. The others were more forgiving. Irish dance is the most subjective sport I can think of. There are no laid out judging criteria, which makes every judge a wildcard.
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agree-itâs crazy! i do think there should be points for difficulty and executionâbut again each judge is different and one may like the style of a dancer and others not so much.... -- just a subjective art, 08:41:02 12/07/20 Mon (162-226-182-228.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net/162.226.182.228)
itâs like artworkâone person may look at a painting and love it, while others may find it unappealing....
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There was at least one case where I think a judge mixed up dancers numbers. It didnât make a material difference in placing (wouldnât have put dancer in top 10), but this is why it was bummer not to have number checks. -- Mistakes happen, 16:45:15 12/08/20 Tue (NoHost/172.58.139.188)
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Agreed-happens all the time -- inside, 09:25:38 12/15/20 Tue (99-99-169-250.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net/99.99.169.250)
One O my daughters score was switched with her dance partner's by one judge. 2 scores in top 40-one score was 110th. Her dance partner had two scores between 100 and 116 (last place) and one 35. Pretty clear.
Nothing you can do bc by the time you get the scores its all over And once you are out of the top 25 the Irish points are so fractional one judge isn't likely to make a difference.
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Score Disparities -- No name, 11:27:04 12/09/20 Wed (31.sub-174-227-135.myvzw.com/174.227.135.31)
Just coming off SRO weekend, and Iâm finally able to process these results. I feel like this disparity in scoring is getting more and more common. (2nd and 30th, 1st and 60th, 7th and 45th...these are real). Almost to the point where we have no confidence going to any competition. Even at a regular Feis, there will be 15 dancers and my daughter will get a 2nd, 3rd and 14th. I wish they would at least discuss this, acknowledge it, or explain it. The answer canât be âitâs artâ, there has to be some standard of measurement. Wishful thinking, I know. But man, Iâm tired of what feels like a crapshoot lately.
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Yes to this! Also confusing when there are dancers that my daughter always places higher than at feises, but never at oireachtas. When the # of dancers get large, it seems to be impossible to sort correctly. -- No name, 12:44:29 12/09/20 Wed (214.sub-174-233-132.myvzw.com/174.233.132.214)
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Majors vrs local -- No name, 16:54:42 12/10/20 Thu (167.sub-174-248-111.myvzw.com/174.248.111.167)
This happens a lot. When youâre dancing at a local feis, the numbers in each competition are smaller, the dancers with flawless technique usually win. However, at major, the standard of technique is higher than at a local feis, and with so many high standard dancers, itâs easy to get lost in the crowd. The dancers who place higher at a major are technically flawless, and more importantly, memorable. Bigger jumps, higher kicks, faster legs, louder bangs, and never ending stamina do well at majors.
Basically, you want to have your technique flawless to be successful at a local comp, and then elevate the performance to be successful at a major. Most dancers struggle to be exciting and technical at the same time.
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I agree. I also think part of the difference is some dancers style stands out better on the large stage at majors than it does when their movement is more confined on the smaller feis stages. -- JMO, 09:07:04 12/17/20 Thu (cpe-98-144-8-45.wi.res.rr.com/98.144.8.45)
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There are also the dancers who "bring it" on the big stage at majors, but don't put as much effort into feiseanna. -- Text box, 14:39:03 12/17/20 Thu (cpe-65-189-55-125.cinci.res.rr.com/65.189.55.125)
My daughter used to get frustrated because dancers she consistently out-scored at feiseanna would WQ at NAIDC/Oireachtas and she didn't. They danced well at feiseanna, but she frequently scored better. She has been OC for nearly five years and we're seeing that she too dances well at feiseanna but really "brings it" at the majors (either WQs or misses it by 1-2 places) I think their hearts aren't into it as much at a feis if they have been feising regularly, but the fire really comes out at the majors.
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Irish dancing is insane! Please see inside -- No name (đ), 12:01:34 12/10/20 Thu (ool-18e43fa3.dyn.optonline.net/24.228.63.163)
Yes, we have been at a feis where a boy in my DD competition was given 1st by one judge and 16th (last place) by another judge. That does not make any sense. They always tell us one judge must have seen something that the others didnât, but that is crazy. I keep telling my daughter that Irish Dancing is not fair and is very subjective. I get frustrated as an adult watching it, so I can only imagine how she must feel. Never the less she loves it and wants to keep doing it.
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Seriously. Why is this never acknowledged? This is becoming the norm, and the answer we get is also âthat judge saw one thingâ and âitâs art.â I donât know what to think anymore. -- No name, 16:23:18 12/10/20 Thu (c-24-15-212-49.hsd1.il.comcast.net/24.15.212.49)
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It is an art, but it is also a sport as we all agree. I have always thought there should be a laid out criteria all judges have to adhere to. The CLRG apparently disagrees -- Inside, 12:05:19 12/11/20 Fri (cpe-65-189-55-125.cinci.res.rr.com/65.189.55.125)
Timing/Tempo -25%
Artistry/Stage Presence - 40%
Form (Turnout/Pointed Toes/Extension/Arms/Posture) - 25%
General appearance - 10% (This would be neat hair, but not necessarily a wig; tidy outfit, but not necessarily a blinged solo outfit; socks pulled up, etc.)
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I left out "difficulty." There should be a criteria for difficulty to discourage schools from focusing on simplicity to make it easier for the dancers to perfect the "basics." -- Just my opinion, 13:05:14 12/11/20 Fri (cpe-65-189-55-125.cinci.res.rr.com/65.189.55.125)
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Irish points and the 9 judges averages -- No name, 16:44:26 12/10/20 Thu (167.sub-174-248-111.myvzw.com/174.248.111.167)
This is why there are 9 different judges for each competition. The average placement of the 9 is a true representation of how a dancer performed that day. Itâs a subjective sport and the majors have 100s of dancers in one competition, itâs expected that one judge might place a dancer higher than another based off of what their preference is. Som judges are big on timing, others like technique, others like spunk. The trick is to be a skilled enough of a dancer that youâre style is pleasing to all of the judges.
The dancers in the top ten are accomplished enough that a particular judges âpreference â doesnât play a significant role in their placement. Also the Irish points system is less significant for the bottom 50% of dancers, so try not to fixate on the numerical placement if it wasnât in the recall range.
If you have more questions, Iâm sure your teacher can help explain the Irish points.
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