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Date Posted: 11:32:10 07/15/01 Sun
Author: Susan W
Subject: OT/"The Mists of Avalon"
Don't forget that the mini-series "The Mists of Avalon" begins tonight, Sunday July 15th, at 8:00 P.M. eastern on TNT. It stars Anjelica Huston, Julianna Margulies, and Joan Allen, among others.
Stephen English, writing for the TV Data Features Syndicate, writes:
"Mists" puts a feminist slant on Arthurian legend, presenting it from the perspective of Miss Margulies' character, Morgaine LeFay. Traditionally, Morgaine has been a villain, but this production depicts her as a priestess of the religion that preceded Christianity in Britain, resurrected nowadays as witchcraft or Wicca.
"That's why this is another side of Arthurian legend," says "Mists" executive producer Mark Wolper. "It's not about two guys fighting over a girl they love. It's about two religions fighting over a world they love, and that's much bigger."
"We made a conscious effort to represent paganism as a warm, earthy religion and Christianity as a harsh religion," Mr. Wolper adds. "I fully expect controversy; I welcome it."
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Hmmm, well--I think that Mr. Wolper will get what he wants! If you watch it, let us know what you think about it.
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Well, PJhub said that after he read the blurb in the newspaper, he figured that's where this show was heading. A friend has asked me to tape it for her...I might catch some of it out of curiosity. Anyone have background on Wolper? Will report later... -- PJ, 14:30:55 07/15/01 Sun
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I loved the book so I think I just can't miss this one. It will be very interesting to see how closely they stick to the novel. MZB obviously did a lot of research before she wrote the book so there is some good history mixed with myth. -- Zzoo, 15:13:37 07/15/01 Sun
>Don't forget that the mini-series "The Mists of
>Avalon" begins tonight, Sunday July 15th, at 8:00 P.M.
>eastern on TNT. It stars Anjelica Huston, Julianna
>Margulies, and Joan Allen, among others.
>
>Stephen English, writing for the TV Data Features
>Syndicate, writes:
>
>"Mists" puts a feminist slant on Arthurian legend,
>presenting it from the perspective of Miss Margulies'
>character, Morgaine LeFay. Traditionally, Morgaine has
>been a villain, but this production depicts her as a
>priestess of the religion that preceded Christianity
>in Britain, resurrected nowadays as witchcraft or
>Wicca.
>
>"That's why this is another side of Arthurian legend,"
>says "Mists" executive producer Mark Wolper. "It's not
>about two guys fighting over a girl they love. It's
>about two religions fighting over a world they love,
>and that's much bigger."
>
>"We made a conscious effort to represent paganism as a
>warm, earthy religion and Christianity as a harsh
>religion," Mr. Wolper adds. "I fully expect
>controversy; I welcome it."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~~~~
>
>Hmmm, well--I think that Mr. Wolper will get what he
>wants! If you watch it, let us know what you think
>about it.
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Zzoo...can't wait to hear your thoughts about TMOA. PJhub refuses to watch it and I'm a history idiot...I do math. -- PJ, 19:05:37 07/15/01 Sun
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Actually, PJ, I hadn't really planned to comment because I see the possibility of it hitting a lot of nerves. -- Zzoo, 19:17:16 07/15/01 Sun
I think you know that I was an ancient history major and while that area is not my geographic specialty, and is too recent, it still is one of the last periods of conflict between paternal and maternal societies and is, consequently, absolutely fascinating. What has always interested me the most was trying to decipher reality from that stage where oral history ends and written history begins. It's a lot like watching a fight under a rug. You can tell there's a fight going on, but only history will tell you who came out on top because history is written by the winners. TMOA attempts to see that period (with a lot of magic, etc. thrown in) from the losing viewpoint.
Unfortunately, since I tend to look at things analytically and from the viewpoint of a historian, it's generally a good idea not to discuss religion. History is the study and interpretation of accumlated facts, hopefully proveable by science. Religion is faith. When history and religion debate, someone always gets offended.
Hugs,
Zzoo
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Well, I can understand that...and I appreciate your sensitivity. I watched the entire first part. Was it true to the book and was it historically correct concerning costuming and scenery? -- PJ, 22:18:09 07/15/01 Sun
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The main thing that seems wrong on style was that everyone was so clean, LOL. Remember, these folks took baths twice a year whether they needed them or not. The fabrics were too rich and some of the colors seemed too intense for vegetable dyes. Still, it looked good and this is entertainment, not history. You wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if they'd been too scroungy. Some of the armor was too late period. The dresses were too long. The layered pants with dresses was good. The scenery was lovely, but England had about 90% more forest then than now. -- Zzoo, 16:19:15 07/16/01 Mon
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But still, it'd be an interesting conversation/argument ... I'd like to hear your point of view. :) -- Lindy, 11:09:30 07/16/01 Mon
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Oh, *fascinating... (mmmm hmmmm...:( Ok, now that you've made me look up who the Saxons were... I have to force myself to study history, but I hate not knowing what's going on even more. So, does anyone know what kind of religion the Saxons had or if they had one at all? -- Shirleym, 13:27:29 07/16/01 Mon
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Like I said, it's not my period, but -- Zzoo, 13:51:31 07/16/01 Mon
Basically, as I recall, the Picts (who are sort of implied with the tattooing and blue face paint on Beltane), the Bretons (not sure about that one), and any Celts kicking around the area would have probably been matriarchal and worship the goddess. Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Norse (later) would all be patriarchal. The Romans would have just recently left the country leaving behind some Mithraic cults and Christianity. Guess I need to go check my history, too. LOL. I don't really remember all the players.
The most mixed up mess in the show was trying to keep track of who should be in line of inheritance, LOL. One side was working with matrilineal inheritance and the other with patrilineal. Some things just didn't make sense even if they made good drama. (For instance, if Ygraine's son can inherit, and Morgause's would be next in line -- why not Lancelot who is depicted as the son of the eldest sister?)
The only things that made perfect sense, actually, was the Ygraine/Uther and Morgaine/Arthur combinations. Both pairing would have produced a child who stood to inherit the crown through both the matrilineal and patrilineal sides thereby supposedly uniting the country.
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You're just like this regardless, right? -- wiboth, dodging bazooka fire, 21:16:57 07/16/01 Mon
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Why did you think people avoided me at cocktail parties? LOL -- Zzoo, 21:54:13 07/16/01 Mon
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um... could it be the exploding necklace??? -- Shirleym, 22:21:08 07/16/01 Mon
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Well, I don't know. People avoid me @ cocktail parties when it's my period and w/ good reason. But maybe they're not avoiding you, they just aren't looking downward. -- wiboth (We ALL remember "normal"), 22:27:04 07/16/01 Mon
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I could have sworn it was the bazooka...of course, it *could* have been the gas-mask handbag... -- sw, 22:32:44 07/16/01 Mon
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Zzoo, good point about a Morgaine/Arthur pairing producing a child who could inherit through both matrilineal and patrilineal lines. I hadn't thought of that. I really liked this POV about the Arthurian legends...(r) -- sw, 22:52:21 07/16/01 Mon
I felt the author really had a handle on a number of points in the legend that never really hung together otherwise. Having Morgaine be a priestess in the old religion made a heck of a lot of sense, as did Arthur being a focal point for religious conflicts of the time.
My heritage on my father's side is English, Welsh, (and some Irish), and I have to say that this legend just really speaks to my heart. I've always seen it as part history, part myth, part storytelling. I loved every bit of this retelling, even if some might see it as...er...*unusual*.
A ritual protest though: Why, why, WHY do they always miscast Lancelot? Don't they know that R.D. is just purrr-fect for the role? ;-)
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I watched both parts and while I thought it was well done and pretty faithful to the book (r) -- Nell, 13:02:44 07/17/01 Tue
The same things irritated me in this version that irritated me in the book. I know that Avalon and the matriarchy have to lose (obviously, that is how it turned out!) but I wish they didn't lose the war with patriarchy/Christainity/the Saxes because of their own stupid behavior. I know it would be tricky to make their struggle turn on a valient defeat that didn't end up making their opponents look like they deserved to win...but Mel Gibson did it Braveheart...Instead in Bradley's version I've always thought it looked rather like Viviane, Morgaine, Aruther et al deserved to lose if they were always this stupid and obvious and highhanded and silly.
I mean, why does Morgaine la Fey - theoretically clever and strong enough to be the next lady of the lake, continually react like a petulant child? Just why is she so easy to manipulate? Why does she trust Morguase of all people with her son if she can't be bothered to raise him herself? Is she so dim that she hasn't figured out the Morgause is, if not completely evil, selfish and motivated by her quest for personal power, not even grounded in service of Avalon and the Goddess the way Viviane is? Lott obviously figured it out quickly enough... And why does Morgaine appear abandon the Goddess out of absence of mind while stuck up in Wales? Just because she's mad at Viviane she just walks away from everything?
I mean, Morgaine actually makes Nikita look like a quick study in terms of reacting to and resisting manipulation! And Nikita actually does make the sacrifice of self to duty -- which she has been cruelly manipulated into, much more cruelly really than Morgaine -- for the sake of others that Morgaine can't be bothered to.
I guess what I'm saying is that for all the "feminist" slant -- ie the female POV, I think Morgaine ends up being a classic female victim, passively observing the rising catasrophe and taking all the shit that's shoved at her without raising a finger to stop it.
And why is Guenivere always such an idiot anyway?
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I hope this doesn't duplicate. I said that your points are well taken, but that your irritation would be lessened by realizing that Guinivere (guin=white) is a paternalistic corruption of Blodewedd. See reply. -- Zzoo, 16:09:04 07/17/01 Tue
Blodeuwedd, pronounced blod-oo-eeth, (aka Blodwin, Blancheflor ("White Flower") is the Welsh maiden form of the Triple Goddess. Blodeuwedd was created by Math & Gwydion from nine kinds of wildflowers, among them meadowsweet, oak, broom, primrose, and cockle to be a wife for Lleu. The magicians piled blossom upon blossom to create her. Blodeuwedd may be translated as either "flower face" or in the more ancient dialects, "owl." Also known as the ninefold goddess of the Western Isles of Paradise.
The Mabinogian concluded with Gwydion pursuing the faithless Blodeuwedd through the night sky, a path of white flowers springing up in the wake of her passing which we today know as the Milky Way. When caught, Blodeuwedd was transformed into an owl, to haunt the night in loneliness and sorrow, shunned by all other birds, a fitting symbol of autumn, just as her earlier association with flowers equated her with spring. Her supposed treachery created the very conditions to enable Llew to experience the ritual death and rebirth commonly required of the Druidic priesthood, thus ensuring his kingship. Blodeuwedd is seen as a part of his hard and difficult destiny. Thus Blodeuwedd represents both spring and fall, as patron goddess of flowers and owls, respectively. She can be viewed as a May Queen, bound in sacred marriage to sacrificial king who must eventually be sacrificed to her and through her to his people.
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And I'm sure poor SusanW is really sorry she ever brought this up, LOL -- Zzoo, 16:11:02 07/17/01 Tue
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...not at all, Zzoo. I thought it might spark a good discussion. -- sw, 21:10:51 07/18/01 Wed
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What beautiful poetry... why do they call her the Triple Goddess? -- Shirleym, 12:21:17 07/18/01 Wed
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I think you probably shouldn't encourage me, LOL. Go to your email. -- Zzoo, 12:49:26 07/18/01 Wed
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