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Subject: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
byte mangler

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 21:08:43 07/19/13 Fri

I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days when the local phone co was in the process of selling itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure how Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an agreement with the telco or electric utility to use their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory agency getting in the way). Might this have been 'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low density rural areas.

Basic DSL works well when the distance between the central office equipment and the subscriber is less than 10000-15000 feet [the greater the distance, the slower the service] but DSLAM units concentrate a number of subscriber lines and use a high speed link to the CO, so that the critical parameter is the distance between the DSLAM and the subscriber.

But there's another major player in the internet service business - the CATV outfits (Time Warner, Comcast, others). Since most of Spearfish Lake is a fairly densely populated area [as evidenced by the high school, the local businesses, and a police dept], most cable companies would have promoted their internet service [again, there have been exceptions - CATV franchises that did not offer internet, but the big players were into the internet as well as the TV channels].

From my own experience, we used to live in a quite rural area. TW had the cable franchise for the town, but did not serve all areas if the population density along a road was not enough to make it worthwhile. Neighboring towns had VZ phone service, and they were clearly not interested in deploying DSL outside of densely populated areas. We were fortunate in having a forward looking independent telco that did deploy DSL (complete with DSLAM units that significantly extended the range of DSL.

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Replies:

[> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Wexwiz543
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:41:59 07/23/13 Tue

Look at Absent Friend Chapter 34. Mark finds an available fibre cable and sets up a T1 line. Thought there is little detail, with Mark's knowledge of the telephone system, this circuit could have been upgraded to a T3 and local DSL could have been added later.

Wexwiz

>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days when
>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure how
>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I
>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>density rural areas.
>
>Basic DSL works well when the distance between the
>central office equipment and the subscriber is less
>than 10000-15000 feet [the greater the distance, the
>slower the service] but DSLAM units concentrate a
>number of subscriber lines and use a high speed link
>to the CO, so that the critical parameter is the
>distance between the DSLAM and the subscriber.
>
>But there's another major player in the internet
>service business - the CATV outfits (Time Warner,
>Comcast, others). Since most of Spearfish Lake is a
>fairly densely populated area [as evidenced by the
>high school, the local businesses, and a police dept],
>most cable companies would have promoted their
>internet service [again, there have been exceptions -
>CATV franchises that did not offer internet, but the
>big players were into the internet as well as the TV
>channels].
>
>From my own experience, we used to live in a quite
>rural area. TW had the cable franchise for the town,
>but did not serve all areas if the population density
>along a road was not enough to make it worthwhile.
>Neighboring towns had VZ phone service, and they were
>clearly not interested in deploying DSL outside of
>densely populated areas. We were fortunate in having
>a forward looking independent telco that did deploy
>DSL (complete with DSLAM units that significantly
>extended the range of DSL.

[> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Jim Scott
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:21:31 07/23/13 Tue

For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per month to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back together. Earthlink got less reliable every year and my Comcast cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse became available I dumped all the above and went down to one montly bill. My point is that you can have service from 3 different companies over one twisted pair of phone lines.

My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles from the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over a Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that bumps the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second group in the state's maximum security prison.

Jim

>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days when
>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure how
>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I
>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>density rural areas.
>........................

[> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Wexwiz543
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:30:52 07/23/13 Tue

Service in rural areas is a problem. One area we visit has DSL about 20 miles away. There is a phone box (AT&T) within 1 1/2 miles of our location. We asked if they could put in a DSL card and they said no. Cell phone coverage is spotty. Only alternative is Satellite com through Hughs communications ($200 charge for a ground station then at least $75 per month.
With Mark's experience with the phone company, he could place telephone service centers close enough to provide DSL and use his leased line for trunk service to the Internet.

Wexwiz

>For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my
>residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long
>distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per month
>to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back together.
> Earthlink got less reliable every year and my Comcast
>cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse
>became available I dumped all the above and went down
>to one montly bill. My point is that you can have
>service from 3 different companies over one twisted
>pair of phone lines.
>
>My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles from
>the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over a
>Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but
>moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that bumps
>the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His
>county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are
>mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed
>to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second
>group in the state's maximum security prison.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days when
>>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure how
>>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I
>>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>>density rural areas.
>>........................

[> [> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Arthur Keith
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:38:24 07/24/13 Wed

I live in rural Mississippi, about 10 miles from the closest town and I have access to high speed internet. Everyone around here seems to have one of the those "free cell phones" so there is never a problem with cell phone access, and since the four small towns in my county have cell phone access, if, and in my case it does, the lines between the town go by your place, you can get a hook up.
I keep reading of places where the internet is not as available as it is here. I honestly have not found them in the South in the last decade. Even friends who live further back have satellite tv and internet.

>Service in rural areas is a problem. One area we
>visit has DSL about 20 miles away. There is a phone
>box (AT&T) within 1 1/2 miles of our location. We
>asked if they could put in a DSL card and they said
>no. Cell phone coverage is spotty. Only alternative
>is Satellite com through Hughs communications ($200
>charge for a ground station then at least $75 per
>month.
>With Mark's experience with the phone company, he
>could place telephone service centers close enough to
>provide DSL and use his leased line for trunk service
>to the Internet.
>
>Wexwiz
>
>
>>For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my
>>residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long
>>distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per month
>>to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back together.
>> Earthlink got less reliable every year and my Comcast
>>cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse
>>became available I dumped all the above and went down
>>to one montly bill. My point is that you can have
>>service from 3 different companies over one twisted
>>pair of phone lines.
>>
>>My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles from
>>the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over a
>>Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but
>>moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that bumps
>>the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His
>>county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are
>>mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed
>>to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second
>>group in the state's maximum security prison.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>>>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days
>when
>>>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>>>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure
>how
>>>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>>>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>>>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>>>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>>>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I
>>>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>>>density rural areas.
>>>........................

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Wexwiz543
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:37:31 07/25/13 Thu

In the upper midwest and western US, outside of major cities and major highways, it is common to not have cellphone access let alone cable or DSL.

Wexwis

>I live in rural Mississippi, about 10 miles from the
>closest town and I have access to high speed internet.
> Everyone around here seems to have one of the those
>"free cell phones" so there is never a problem with
>cell phone access, and since the four small towns in
>my county have cell phone access, if, and in my case
>it does, the lines between the town go by your place,
>you can get a hook up.
>I keep reading of places where the internet is not as
>available as it is here. I honestly have not found
>them in the South in the last decade. Even friends
>who live further back have satellite tv and internet.
>
>>Service in rural areas is a problem. One area we
>>visit has DSL about 20 miles away. There is a phone
>>box (AT&T) within 1 1/2 miles of our location. We
>>asked if they could put in a DSL card and they said
>>no. Cell phone coverage is spotty. Only alternative
>>is Satellite com through Hughs communications ($200
>>charge for a ground station then at least $75 per
>>month.
>>With Mark's experience with the phone company, he
>>could place telephone service centers close enough to
>>provide DSL and use his leased line for trunk service
>>to the Internet.
>>
>>Wexwiz
>>
>>
>>>For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my
>>>residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long
>>>distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per
>month
>>>to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back
>together.
>>> Earthlink got less reliable every year and my
>Comcast
>>>cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse
>>>became available I dumped all the above and went down
>>>to one montly bill. My point is that you can have
>>>service from 3 different companies over one twisted
>>>pair of phone lines.
>>>
>>>My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles
>from
>>>the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over a
>>>Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but
>>>moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that bumps
>>>the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His
>>>county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are
>>>mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed
>>>to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second
>>>group in the state's maximum security prison.
>>>
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>>>>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days
>>when
>>>>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>>>>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure
>>how
>>>>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>>>>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>>>>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>>>>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>>>>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)?
>I
>>>>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>>>>density rural areas.
>>>>........................

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Arthur Keith
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:05:46 07/28/13 Sun

And here I thought that we were the most backward part of the US.

In the upper midwest and western US, outside of major
>cities and major highways, it is common to not have
>cellphone access let alone cable or DSL.
>
>Wexwis
>
>>I live in rural Mississippi, about 10 miles from the
>>closest town and I have access to high speed internet.
>> Everyone around here seems to have one of the those
>>"free cell phones" so there is never a problem with
>>cell phone access, and since the four small towns in
>>my county have cell phone access, if, and in my case
>>it does, the lines between the town go by your place,
>>you can get a hook up.
>>I keep reading of places where the internet is not as
>>available as it is here. I honestly have not found
>>them in the South in the last decade. Even friends
>>who live further back have satellite tv and internet.
>>
>>>Service in rural areas is a problem. One area we
>>>visit has DSL about 20 miles away. There is a phone
>>>box (AT&T) within 1 1/2 miles of our location. We
>>>asked if they could put in a DSL card and they said
>>>no. Cell phone coverage is spotty. Only alternative
>>>is Satellite com through Hughs communications ($200
>>>charge for a ground station then at least $75 per
>>>month.
>>>With Mark's experience with the phone company, he
>>>could place telephone service centers close enough to
>>>provide DSL and use his leased line for trunk service
>>>to the Internet.
>>>
>>>Wexwiz
>>>
>>>
>>>>For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my
>>>>residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long
>>>>distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per
>>month
>>>>to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back
>>together.
>>>> Earthlink got less reliable every year and my
>>Comcast
>>>>cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse
>>>>became available I dumped all the above and went
>down
>>>>to one montly bill. My point is that you can have
>>>>service from 3 different companies over one twisted
>>>>pair of phone lines.
>>>>
>>>>My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles
>>from
>>>>the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over
>a
>>>>Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but
>>>>moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that
>bumps
>>>>the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His
>>>>county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are
>>>>mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed
>>>>to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second
>>>>group in the state's maximum security prison.
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>>>>>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days
>>>when
>>>>>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>>>>>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure
>>>how
>>>>>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>>>>>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>>>>>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>>>>>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>>>>>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)?
>>I
>>>>>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>>>>>density rural areas.
>>>>>........................

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Wes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:00:16 07/28/13 Sun

>And here I thought that we were the most backward part
>of the US.
>
>In the upper midwest and western US, outside of major
>>cities and major highways, it is common to not have
>>cellphone access let alone cable or DSL.
>>

Rural service is bad where I live, too. My "high speed" connection is a wireless setup that is slower than somewhat at the best of times, and often doesn't work at all. That is why I keep a dial-up account and have to use it perhaps once a week to send an e-mail or a download to a customer. Fortunately I have a good cable connection at my work office so I wind up doing a lot of my Spearfish Lake Tales business from there. It is not easy to run an internet business with crappy internet service. If I had better and more reliable service from home I might do a few things differently. However, there doesn't seem to be the possibility of it happening any time soon.

-- Wes

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
Arthur Keith
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:13:32 07/28/13 Sun

But yet, here in the Deep South, according to the US Census one of the poorest areas of the country, we have cell towers all over the place. It helps, of course, since most people carry Obama phones, you know, those free phones that the rest of us pay for.
Anyway, you can get high speed internet through those phones. Strange, people cannot afford to get their own phones but they can afford to have computers and internet access.

>>And here I thought that we were the most backward part
>>of the US.
>>
>>In the upper midwest and western US, outside of major
>>>cities and major highways, it is common to not have
>>>cellphone access let alone cable or DSL.
>>>
>
>Rural service is bad where I live, too. My "high
>speed" connection is a wireless setup that is slower
>than somewhat at the best of times, and often doesn't
>work at all. That is why I keep a dial-up account and
>have to use it perhaps once a week to send an e-mail
>or a download to a customer. Fortunately I have a good
>cable connection at my work office so I wind up doing
>a lot of my Spearfish Lake Tales business from there.
>It is not easy to run an internet business with crappy
>internet service. If I had better and more reliable
>service from home I might do a few things differently.
>However, there doesn't seem to be the possibility of
>it happening any time soon.
>
>-- Wes

[> [> Subject: Re: marlin.com and SPL internet services

Author:
ralph058
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:49:46 07/29/13 Mon

Why do you deride them as Obama phones? The program was started under George HW. Obama switched them to cells at a great savings. They don't come out of the general fund but are part of your phone bill.

>For years I had a DSL account with Earthlink over my
>residential Southern Bell line with AT&T as my long
>distance carrier. That dropped from 3 bills per month
>to 2 when AT&T and Southern Bell merged back together.
> Earthlink got less reliable every year and my Comcast
>cable was going down hill also. When AT&T U-verse
>became available I dumped all the above and went down
>to one montly bill. My point is that you can have
>service from 3 different companies over one twisted
>pair of phone lines.
>
>My younger brother lives in west Kentucky 7 miles from
>the nearest cell tower but he has his internet over a
>Verizon wireless cell modem with good speed but
>moderate rates with a low monthly data cap that bumps
>the cost to outrageous if the cap is exceeded. His
>county is very rural where 1/3 of the residents are
>mostly farmers, 1/3 of the residents are not allowed
>to vote, and the final 1/3 are guarding the second
>group in the state's maximum security prison.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>>I'm interested in more on this subject. IIRC
>>marlin.com started offering DSL in the early days when
>>the local phone co was in the process of selling
>>itself out to a conglomerate (Verizon?). Not sure how
>>Mark was offering DSL in the area unless he had an
>>agreement with the telco or electric utility to use
>>their poles (and there wasn't a state regulatory
>>agency getting in the way). Might this have been
>>'naked DSL' (independent of the voice connection)? I
>>know that VZ was slow to make DSL available in low
>>density rural areas.
>>........................

[> [> [> Subject: Re:'Obama phones' (was marlin.com and SPL internet services
Author: bytemangler [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 22:41:13 07/29/13 Mon >Why do you deride them as Obama phones? The program >was started under George HW. Obama switched them to >cells at a great savings. They don't come out of the >general fund but are part of your phone bill. > And what suggests that these phones have a data plan with internet access?