Re: Susan starts posting -- Spearfish Lake Tales

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Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Wes

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Date Posted: 22:52:40 10/21/12 Sun
In reply to: Arthur Keith 's message, "Re: Susan starts posting" on 22:36:37 10/21/12 Sun

>Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as
>being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that
>is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect
>that would be today considered any form of German.
>You must know that we suffered tremendously under the
>German occupation and that it often is safer to speak
>to a Dutchman in any language other than German.
>Our language is germanic but there has been a separate
>development of the language since the middle of the
>17th century.

You're probably right; it sounds strange to me, too, not that I know anything about it other than what I picked up off various websites researching it. I seem to recall the impression I got was that it was pretty much a dying dialect anywhere, and it could well be that only tiny pockets of older people still spoke it in the Netherlands, and probably close to the German border. I just don't know, or at least don't remember now.

I do remember that there is some kind of an organization devoted to the preservation of Plattdeutsch in Germany, so it's obviously a dying language there as well. Susan's grandmother's knowledge of it probably predated the widespread language dilution present in the modern era.

I do know that Europe can be very complex in terms of languages and dialects, with some spoken in very small areas. It is something we Americans can find difficult to comprehend.

-- Wes

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Andrew
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Date Posted: 12:13:29 10/25/12 Thu

>>>Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the
>>>background is located in the state of Bavaria and was
>>>one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit.
>>
>>Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something
>>elaborate!
>>
>>-- Wes
>Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as
>being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that
>is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect
>that would be today considered any form of German.
>You must know that we suffered tremendously under the
>German occupation and that it often is safer to speak
>to a Dutchman in any language other than German.
>Our language is germanic but there has been a separate
>development of the language since the middle of the
>17th century.
>
>Arthur.

Curious, I speak German and discovered years ago that I could understand people from one corner in the NE of the Netherlands - possibly one of the islands - when they were speaking to each other. They told me where they were from but this is so long ago.

Luxembourg also used to speak a German dialect. Parts still do but a lot less than before WW2. I have heard it and don't remember understanding much at all.

Parts of the Black Forest area (and probably Switzerland as well) have dialects which vary slightly from village to village.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Arthur Keith
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Date Posted: 21:30:34 10/28/12 Sun

All of these languages are Germanic languages, so there is a certain amount of similarities. But no one will call Dutch a form of German. There is 400+ years of separate development.
By the way there are five islands, two of them are part of the province of Noord Holland, two of Friesland, and the last one Groningen.
Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a Germanic language.

>>>>Looking at the picture from Susan. The Castle in the
>>>>background is located in the state of Bavaria and
>was
>>>>one Ludwig's homes. It is a great place to visit.
>>>
>>>Right, Neuschwanstein Castle. It's really something
>>>elaborate!
>>>
>>>-- Wes
>>Looking at your glossary, you mentions Plattdeutsch as
>>being spoken in parts of The Netherlands. Since that
>>is where I was born, I can think of no Dutch dialect
>>that would be today considered any form of German.
>>You must know that we suffered tremendously under the
>>German occupation and that it often is safer to speak
>>to a Dutchman in any language other than German.
>>Our language is germanic but there has been a separate
>>development of the language since the middle of the
>>17th century.
>>
>>Arthur.
>
>Curious, I speak German and discovered years ago that
>I could understand people from one corner in the NE of
>the Netherlands - possibly one of the islands - when
>they were speaking to each other. They told me where
>they were from but this is so long ago.
>
>Luxembourg also used to speak a German dialect. Parts
>still do but a lot less than before WW2. I have heard
>it and don't remember understanding much at all.
>
>Parts of the Black Forest area (and probably
>Switzerland as well) have dialects which vary slightly
>from village to village.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Allen
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Date Posted: 20:32:47 10/29/12 Mon

>Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion
>of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a
>Germanic language.

No they didn't, they spoke Norman French! Why do you think there are so many outright French words and derived French words in English?

While the Normans did originally come from Northern Europe and probably spoke a Germanic language, by 1066 they were totally "Frenchified" [if there is any such word!] and spoke Norman French which is considered a dialect of French.

Just as an aside the nearest living language to English is Friesian, from the Friesian Islands in the Northern Netherlands.

Allen

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Deadly Ernest
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Date Posted: 07:47:07 10/30/12 Tue

>>Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion
>>of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a
>>Germanic language.
>
>No they didn't, they spoke Norman French! Why do you
>think there are so many outright French words and
>derived French words in English?
>
>While the Normans did originally come from Northern
>Europe and probably spoke a Germanic language, by 1066
>they were totally "Frenchified" [if there is any such
>word!] and spoke Norman French which is considered a
>dialect of French.
>
>Just as an aside the nearest living language to
>English is Friesian, from the Friesian Islands in the
>Northern Netherlands.
>
>Allen

Allen,

Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had been in England and the rest of the British Isles for well over a thousand years before the Norman French arrived with William the Bastard. Prior to the Angles and Danes most of the people in England were Druids, Celts and Brits, with another set of languages. There were also a lot of Romans left wandering around to from the times of Big Julius.

BTW England is derived from Anglesland named after the Angles as they were the most prolific in that area.

Ernest

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Allen
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Date Posted: 20:57:43 11/03/12 Sat

>
>Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had
>been in England and the rest of the British Isles for
>well over a thousand years before the Norman French
>arrived with William the Bastard.

Of course they were! What is your point? The post that I replied to said that the Normans spoke a Germanic language, which by 1066 was not so, they spoke Norman French, as is still spoken in Normandy & Louisiana!

Allen

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Susan starts posting

Author:
Deadly Ernest
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Date Posted: 19:50:01 11/04/12 Sun

>>
>>Germanic people known as Saxons, Angles and Danes had
>>been in England and the rest of the British Isles for
>>well over a thousand years before the Norman French
>>arrived with William the Bastard.
>
>Of course they were! What is your point? The post that
>I replied to said that the Normans spoke a Germanic
>language, which by 1066 was not so, they spoke Norman
>French, as is still spoken in Normandy & Louisiana!
>
>Allen

G'day,

The statement you responded to was talking about what the English spoke, not the French -

quote

Oh, and let me not forget that prior to the invasion of England by the Normans in 1066, they also spoke a Germanic language.

end quote

It speaks of what is spoken in England being a Germanic language prior to the Norman invasion.

Ernest