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Date Posted: 17:59:46 04/13/02 Sat
Author: The Serpent
Subject: Re: Here it is!
In reply to: Noomie 's message, "hoping Serp won't find me in contempt" on 05:21:24 04/13/02 Sat

Serpent, you and I are ironically in the same boat.
We both are easily categorized into groups with people who are idiots.

Humm, I don't know whether to take that as an insult or as a complement. I've been told that I think, do, and talk too much.

Many of the people who listen to the music you do, for example, have not given many of these issues the amount of thought or attention that you have.

With the exception of Corporate Avenger fans. Besides, people can't, or are not going to explain why they feel the way they do when they're writing a song unless they focus a little more, and try to get rid of some of the anger.

Although, if you're environment is hostile and violent, and you're an artist, then you're going to have violent art. Be it through music, or drawing, or painting, or anything artistic. It's art imitating life. It has never been the other way around.

Of course, if you're referring to the songs, that I posted, about policemen. Yeah. N.W.A. put out "Fuck Tha Police" before the Rodney King beating tape. It's quite obvious that there needs to be more attention paid to the treatment of American citizens by government paid law enforcement... no matter what class or social standard you live in.

Second. If you're taken off to jail because of the more insane laws (like marijuana use being illegal) then nine times out of ten the law enforcer appears to be the oppressor, and loses his or her identity as a human being, which he or she is. Then the supposed oppressed gets in his or her mind, "I don't cry when the police die, cuz they probably deserved it.... They enforce rules made by fools..."

If we stuck to the facts and the truth about everything, then better ideas could evolve from this so called "hate" and "misguided" behavior.

For my part, I look to a certain figure for guidance, inspiration, etc. A group of people who are misguided at best and hateful at worst look to this same figure.

If you're, again, referring to the type of music I listen to. Consider what I said above. Perhaps N.W.A. was a bit misguided and hateful.
However, they spoke the truth about their upbringing. They had every right to complain about racism and police brutality. Plus, they speak a language to the kids that isn't all perfect and N'sync (pun intended.). They gave white suburban kids their bleak reality, while giving the kids in the projects something to keep their sanity with. It makes a lot of people feel better if they're not alone. Also, probably another reason why Ice Cube (former member of N.W.A.) went on to do the movie "Boyz In Tha Hood."

A lot of them might not believe in God because of what surrounds their lives. Gangs, racial hate, murder, drugs, rape, corrupt cops, etc.

Consider what you wrote:
Well, forgive my lack of knowledge to exactly know where everything is in the Bible, however, I think it was summed up when people came to the conclusion that if sex is a "sin," and we're born from the act of sex, then we're born from an act of "sin."
Remember, I asked you where it said that in the bible.

I wasn't actually going to get up, and try to find it. Besides, if it isn't there, then I'd be looking all damn day!

You were correct in referring to "people coming to the conclusion". Yes, there is a strain of conservative Christianity which holds with what you speak of. There's a great discussion about it in the play/film
"Inherit The Wind." The defence lawyer pretty well dismantles the silly idea that original sin is related to sex and this connection somehow corrupts us.
The conception of salvation you point to is similarly represenative of one branch of Christianity. Your points are a valid refutation of that branch. But don't burn down the whole tree!

A majority of Christians believe this idea, though. Paul might even. Most of the people who go to shy's board would probably think that way. I think everyone of my Christian friends think this way. Their churches do. A little more than half the country, I have a feeling, thinks this way!

I understand how you might infer a slam at atheist morals in my words. And I'll be blunt: I believe that atheist morals are in someway inconsistent. This is not to say that I think atheists behave less morally than religious folks. It is to say that I believe they are inconsistent for acting in a manner which is altruistic.

It would probably depend on what they deem "logical." For instance; an idiot would go out and murder for the shear sick (fucked up) pleasure, so the idiot might need some sort of law or rule to go by so that they will (hopefully) not go out and kill because of their "morals," and all that.

Basically, if you use your brain, don't fuck with other people, realize that you're not the only person on this planet, try to tolerate people, and USE YOUR BRAIN, then you should be okay. If not, then you're going to hurt someone, or hurt yourself. And those who don't care either way, are usually the ones I deem "idiots," and actually NEED a religion.

That's my....

... what?

One, two, three, four, five....

That's my Five Commandments (with a disclaimer)!

As I see it Religion is about a transformation by putting us in touch with a more fundamental reality. That's why you can suspect that a real religion is present wherever people are transformed for the better.

Most people, who were forced to become Christian, make up more than half of our population. The others were told how to be brave "Christian Soldiers." Which were most of the people who followed the Pope, at the time -- those same people who almost did a full genocide on the Native Indians. Meaning, a lot of those changes weren't exactly "for the better."

So, is Christianity a real religion along with the other two or three dominant religions of the world?

That's not a challenge. I would probably answer that question by saying, it depends. Going by the example I gave, probably not. However, some people's lives have been changed "for the better." So, it really depends.

If there was a society of blind men who lived in a cactus patch, and suddenly someone was connected to reality in a deeper way, that is, he could see, we might observe that he didn't walk into cactuses. And if he claimed to be sighted but still walked into cactuses, we might doubt that he really was seeing at all.

Which would either be a lie, or truth without fact, which I have said is lame. That's why we need the facts.

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