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Date Posted: 14:48:49 05/19/99 Wed
Author: Kevin
Subject: Re: A different view
In reply to: Daniel 's message, "Re: A different view" on 16:59:57 05/18/99 Tue

My thanks to Richard for responding. I wrote this away from the forum so I repeat some of what Rich has already pointed out.

(Gen 1:1 KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

General relativity tells us that "In the beginning" includes time. What does the Bible say;

(Heb 11:3 KJV) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

You and I can not put time in a bottle, but we can observe it's passage. It can be measured. Therefor according to this verse time must be included in the list of created things that were made from what is not observable.

(1 Cor 2:7 KJV) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Since time was created along with the world (world is not limited to earth here, it's usage is all encompassing of physical reality), then this verse must be relating an event prior to time.

(Titus 1:2 KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Same thing. Don't blame me blame Paul.

(2 Tim 1:9 KJV) Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Your on a roll Paul.

(Rom 8:28 KJV) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
(Rom 8:29 KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Rom 8:30 KJV) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God knows the past, present, and future. Not convinced?

(Psa 139:13 KJV) For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
(Psa 139:14 KJV) I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
(Psa 139:15 KJV) My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
(Psa 139:16 KJV) Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
(Psa 139:17 KJV) How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Look at verse 16 again, in the NIV
(same verse NIV) your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

We are not robots. We have free will, but God preknows all the days of our lives before we are born.

This comes from my Bible ditionary;

God and Time The biblical God is not governed by time because He is the Lord of time. God is in time in the sense that He is sovereignly present in all the events of time, confronting His people with His warnings and His promises. However, this is not the same as saying that God is caught up in time or governed by it. Humankind cannot bind Him to special sacred times; rather, He encounters humankind in each moment of their temporal existence, offering each new day as an opportunity for judgment in the event of their willful stubbornness or for redemption in the event of their repentance.


Physical reality says time had a beginning. The Bible agrees, God is the Creator of time. IF you are still unwilling to see what I am saying about time then continuing this thread is pointless as it is a minor point of disagreement and has nothing to do with whether the Bible supports an old earth model. Actually, whether you agree or not is irrelevant. The original proposition was can the Old Earth Creation model be supported Biblically. Yes it can.

Now, about praying for the past. As I stated before we are limited by time. The past is a done deal and can not be changed. This is God's choice. He has chosen to deal with mankind in a linear manner. He is therefor self limited.

Dealing with unfulfilled prophecy probably has a similar solution. God gives a prophetic message within time. Outside of time He knows it will not occur as foretold. In this respect, we might both be correct in a sense. God seems limited by time, but since He created it, we must understand that any limitation is self imposed. I acknowledge you questioning this concept. Your questions are valid. The solutions are not always easy. Though I feel certain about my position, my lack of a full answer shows my own limitations.

One example of what I am trying to say would be to consider the way Jesus worked on the earth. Being God in the flesh, limited by space and time, He constantly prayed to know the will of God - didn't He know His own will? apparently not, but it was a self imposed limitation. (Phil 2:6-8) Since, prophecy was (is, depending on your view of this) given by the Holy Spirit to men. Surely God the Spirit knows the will of God. Yet the Spirit searches the mind of God and still does not know the day and the hour of His return. (Mat 24:36) Why? Self imposed limitation? But, God the Father is not limited.

Peace
Kevin

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