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Date Posted: 15:58:26 06/04/99 Fri
Author: daniel
Subject: Re: Time continued
In reply to: Kevin 's message, "Re: Time continued" on 15:36:43 06/03/99 Thu

> >
> > So is basic hermeneutics different or the same as
> > radiometric dating? We both use tools, we both rely
> > on evidence and hope for wisdom to help us
> understand.
> >
>
> The earth is full of physical evidence that blows your
> hermeneutics out of the water. By the way Radiometric
> dating is but one of the tools. The heavens declare
> the glory of God - and the heavens declare your
> hermeneutics wrong. Hope harder!
>

Right, such as comets. Please provide any fossilized record of comets within the geological column. Please provide evidence to support the Oort Cloud or Kuiper Belt or any other birth place for young or long term comets.

P.S. Dr Gary Parker of AIG told me that the rate of radiometric decay has been seen to change under high energy bombardment.


> >
> > I never suggested inadmissible, I am suggesting that
> > we are ignorant despite the number of PHD's behind
> any
> > issue.
> >
>
> Yes, but we are slowing getting wiser. Galeleo has
> finally been exhonorated.
>

Yet you would have bowed to the likes of the science of Plato, and Aristotle who believed that comets were mere reflections of what was occuring on the earth.

I just finished a 500+page book on the origins of comets, that gives the entire history of scientific thought regarding comets. The epilogue declares: We still do not know where comets are born. In addition these scientists are not ashamed to say that unless a source is found for these astronomical objects, the truth is that they should not even exist, because an old universe prevents their existence. They are hopeful that evidence will be found soon.

"The Origin of Comets" Pergamon Press, M. E. Bailey, S.V.M. Clube and W.M. Napier

> >
> > Nicely stated, however, the object I choose to focus
> > on is the bible.
> >
>
> OK, but you do so on blind faith. Which is wonderful,
> but don't pretend the physical evidence backs up your
> position. It does not. No matter how hard you twist
> it.
>

Nor does your inability to respect God's word as literal. You deny the evidence that declares that the word is....simple. No matter how hard you twist it, OEC cannot be brought forth.

> > God. From geocentricity to helocentricity. The bible
>
>
> That wasn't the scientist's fault - they were working
> under dogmatic restraints based on a faulty
> hermeneutic.
>

You are seriously confused. You may want to review the writings of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. Unfortunately they refused to apply any type of biblical hermeneutic.


Ps 19:4-6
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices like a strong man to run its race.
6 Its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end; and there is nothing hidden from its heat.
(NKJ)



>
> > teaches geocentricity in the relationship of God to
> > man, but the bible didn't claim geocentricity in the
> > "scientific sense". You would have been a
> geocentrist
>
> that's right.

Free to be right, I mean wrong.

> > Because science seems to be such an integral part of
> > your faith, I am curious if science could dissuade
> you
> > from believing a virgin birth or resurrection.
> >
>
> My faith is based on my personal encounter with Jesus
> Christ. I need no proof that He is alive - He has
> spoken directly to me and I am forever changed.
>

He has spoken directly through his word that he created the heavens and the earth in 6 literal days.

> >
> > deeper=OEC
> >
>
> OK, if you insist. The Jews believe you should read
> Scripture then read it again. Why (besides it is a
> good idea)? Because it is layered.
>

You would love the Mishna's and the Talmud, Every opinion under the sun. Free to pick one or two.


> > OK, but I am speaking towards history as documented
> by
> > man. There seems to be about a 5000yr drop date of
> > evidence available about man's existence on earth
> (ie
> > written).
> >
>
> Not sure your date of the earliest writing is entirely
> correct, but pretty close. How did science arrive at
> this date? Of course! They got this date from
> radiometric dating methods! Amazing how you can
> accept a date when it is to your favor. Of course
> there are thousands of years of illiterate human
> fossils before this date. And no writings in the
> Cambrian strata, the Jurassic strata, the....
>

Such is NOT the case, the dating is not based on radiometric dating. It is based on progression of historical events. These events are collaborated with multiple sources, such as the "great deluge". Amazing! And there is the study of characters of writing, you may be very surprised to study ancient chinese, many of the symbols are biblically oriented.


> > Be fair for a moment this book is 950pages of
> detailed
> > accounts of paleoarcheological suppression of
> > scientific evidence and findings. I do not care what
> > your interpretation is, but this is the most
> > forthright position this huge document claims. In
> > addition Dr. Phillip Johnson supports this work.
> >
>
> Scientific conspiracies? Are you serious? Now, if
> you mean to push evolution, then I might agree, but
> the age of the earth being purposely hidden? That is
> silly. Science is a business. If lab 'A' won't
> reveal the truth, lab 'B' will - especially if they
> can make a profit off of it. Think about it Daniel,
> you know I'm right. Greed is one thing the world
> understands.
>

I love how you avoid the topic and ramble on. I didn't write the book or endorse it.
You avoid the message and attack the messenger.


> > I wonder what Adam thought of the pre-adamic race of
> > animals. Wow, they look just like me, but they act
> > like stupid robots, who bury their dead and paint
> > pretty pictures. I hope they don't mind if I
> > permanently borrow their vases, since I am not a
> > potter.
> >
>
> Animals are not robots. Where do you get this absurd
> stuff?
>

Your soooooo cute. I feel like a teenager, except for my knees and my back.

You do not find it all absurd to say that Adam was the first man, yet according to your system of belief a pre-adamic race that loved, buried, painted...etc...existed but had no soul. Your funny and absurd.


> >
> > The bible makes no such claim?
> >
> > By whose authority to we accept any biblical claim?
> >
>
> Good question. I just accept it on faith. Do you
> believe the Bible to be the innerent infallible word
> of God? I believe the original revelations given by
> God to man were innerent and infallible. But they
> were given to fallen man. Still, Scripture is the
> closest of any written thing to perfection we have
> today.
>

We accept the authority of the bible because God gave it to man. Jesus endorsed many books of the OT. The apostles endorsed the writings of Paul and yet you suggest that the bible makes no claim of authenticity. Sad.



> > Descriptions of Young Earth Evidence
> >
>
> Sorry, I am not going to chase your rabbits. I have
> learned from the past that it is pointless. I could
> disprove every item you have listed, and you would
> just give me ten more - which would be fine, but you
> will never learn anything from it.
>

Hmmm. Seems I have and could do the same as you as it relates to hermeneutics. We are at an impasse and it is clear that you love science more than you love the word.

> > God is eternal forever, we are are eternal forward.
> >
>
> Yes, your getting it.


Yes.

<---eternity past----creation----NOW----eternity future---> Got it.

> > Is the Table of Nations literal?
> >

Amazing. Who am I asking, Morris or you?

>
> Morris and crew have concluded the earth may be as old
> as 10,000 years. Does that mean they don't believe it
> to be literal?
>
> >
> > Have you read the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical
> Journal?
> >
>
> I have read many of it's articles.
>

And so it should be quite obvious to you that no real scientific effort has been made by anyone that has published in this magazine. Reminds me of studying the devil's work. I study it so that I can know that what ever is said is likley untrue. I will maintain my subscription so that I will always know what scientific claims are made in this poorly, unsubstantiated Journal are substantially untrue.

Thank you for the opportunity for me to easily identify error. All articles written in the creation ex nihilo journal are false.

> >
> > Fraid to tell it like it is....Maybe Java man and
> Adam
> > shared a valley together. Maybe Adam named Java.
> >
>
> Maybe.

);

>
> >
> > No what is the difference? If I am in this universe,
> > I get wiped out, but if I am in another universe I
> > stay dry?
> >
>
> Universal = all mankind exstinquished but earth not
> completely covered by water. Can I prove it? Nope.
> Haven't tried to.
>

Interesting thought. What was the purpose of the flood?

> > I have simply refutted the OEC claim that the flood
> > was local or universally local. That is why Ed
> > started this whole thread.
> >
> > What was the reason for the Global Flood?
> >
> >
> > You sound like Hank time and time again.
> >
>
> Hank?

Hank Hannegraf, Christian Research Institute www.equip.org

> > So why is God not the object of evil? In a court of
> > law, if you have foreknowledge of an event you too
> can
> > be found guilty for the same crime.
> >
>
> How would you propose God deal with us then? Keep bad
> people from being born? Zap 'em dead before they do
> wrong? Sure glad God doesn't think like you or we
> wouldn't be having this conversation. God's ways are
> not our ways. Thank You Jesus.
>

You just don't get it. But of course God knew before the foundation of the world that you just wouldn't get it.

> > Why does the prayer of one man fail in the midst of
> > the success of another within the same tragedy?
> > Especially if God is not hold any one man higher than
> > another.
> >
>
> I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. Will we
> accept only good from God and not bad?
>

I accept.

> > > Your analogy fails because world time and game time
> > > are based on the same timeline. Even playing the
> game
> > > while traveling near the speed of light, where time
> > > dilation would come into play, will not help you.
> > > Still same timeline. At the speed of light time is
> > > virtually meaningless.
> >
> > Great science fiction, but NOW would always be the
> > same especially in a Geocentric universe. Why do you
> > stop there? Quantum physics suggests that there are
> > multiple universes, multiple space time continuums.
> > Science has now provided you with an avenue for
> > universe where all potential outcomes are
> actualized.
> > Hitler a great humanitarian and Clinton celebate.
> >
>
> Prove it. You can't because it is theory not physical
> evidence. See the difference.
>

You must not be paying attention in science class. They have proven that particle ray emissions can be located in two places at the same time. So God is in our universe and yours at the same time. I saw that on Discovery Channel, must be true.

> >
> > Please provide any examples of God not being limited
> > to the NOW.
> >
>
> Revelations - oh, wait that is just God's wishful
> thinking.
>

So in your mind prophecies are prewritten future? That is nice, but when confronted with failed prophecy and prayer you have God that is a liar and unable to change things.

As far as the apocalypse is concerned let me give you simple illustration:

I wrote a letter to my grandmother writing in detail all that would transpire over the Memorial Day Weekend. I provided specific examples of locations, times and events that would occur. The document was dated 1 week prior to our departure to Buena Vista.

As I look back at the document I wrote to her all 33 declarations were fulfilled exactly, except for one. I scored 32 out of 33. Hmmm. I must be a false prophet. Do you know why we didn't have ice cream sunday night at Baskin Robins on 6th Ave? I'll give you 100,000 nothings if you get it right.

I wish I was a teenager again. I would snowboard race downhill.

Please pray for me. I am witnessing to 250,000 people this weekend.


Daniel
GODISNOWHERE

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