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Date Posted: 15:46:37 11/17/09 Tue
Author: Andrew J
Subject: Re: Bandogs-Swinfords-Outcross breedings...
In reply to: DKH 's message, "Bandogs-Swinfords-Outcross breedings..." on 05:38:38 11/17/09 Tue

" Hello Andrew J., I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject...how have you been? "

Hello David, well.... oo trying to fight the good fight. Maybe I'll call ya the next time I'm feeling chatty at 5. a.m. Pacific time :) or you can surprise me... any other time.... 360 379 2584... staying pissed off is not my strong suit :)

" What are the relative merits of the addition of Boerboel blood to an existing line of Ban-dog ? What would a breeder hope to gain from a Boerboel? "


Setting aside the question as to how many legitimate "existing lines" of bandogs exist at all, or the equally legitimate ( in my mind ) question as to whether the Boerboel might fit that same description. I would say it depends first and foremost on the INDIVIDUAL Boerboel. Some new comers might need persuading, but I don't have to tell you their anything but, all alike.
And secondly I'd say it depends on the INDIVIDUAL bandog. Having crossed a few years now I'd say the take home message is that it's about exceptional individuals as much, or more, than breeds.

In more concrete terms

It depends what the bandog lines had, what one wanted to add or diminish, and what the Boerboel had. Might add size for many, biddability for many, might soften quite a few up. Of course those looking to increase the dogs ability to read the hearts and minds of leopards and intruders would benefit. Not to mention those needing inate lion and baboon killing skills, or near extinct tackle and hold genes.


I've crossed Boerboels with..... Kangal, Great Dane, Dogo, Dogo/dane, among others. All those dogs were made stickier and more obedient by the boerboel, that is safe to say. The dane was made smarter/ but the boerboel dumber. The Dogo's prey drive was toned down/boerboels up. The only mix that found purpose enough to actually stay here is the
Boerboel x Kangal ( will return after a brief commercial interruption from our typer )

It's good low prey drive flock guardian; considerably more biddable and less likely to roam than a Pure Kangal. It seems able to visually differentiate humans at distances much greater than the standard 30 yard boerboel range, has a better winter coat, more leg, less needy. And I dare say considerably less likely to suffer from a whole long list of physical maladies.
This mix makes sense for a lot of people with stock guardian needs, and smaller holdings that don't require a supremely independent dog, and don't want the associated headaches. They don't kill your stock, they will get all over anything else. And their just as content with hanging out with the stock as the kids, have some available right now :)

picasaweb.google.com/olympicdogs

( forgive me, all my worldy wealth was in the real estate bubble.... I did finally get the wife her own house though, WORKS GREAT, call for details :)

" What are the relative merits of the addition of Ban-dog blood to Boerboel? What would a breeder hope to gain, and what would be the likely return in terms of generational improvement? What could be the negative aspects? "


All the above precursors apply. While Boerboels may vary, "bandogs" as a group, vary more...so depends. But you might be more likely to get one that actually does what boerboel's were initially marketed to do :) I tend to think both would benefit health wise, cause both tend to be tighter than people know or want to admit. of course if a guys got a line of bandogs that are smart, tough, confident, protective and don't suffer from a bunch of ailments...... well...... he better find a dam good boerboel. Though Bandogs, I suppose, are as likely to be overhyped as Boerboels. But I don't think I've told you anything you don't know already, hopefully somebody else gets something out of it


" Last question, what do you guys think the ramifications to the Boerboel registries would be, and how should they handle the topic? "


You kidding ?

Unless you've bought John out this is a more rhetorical a question than I would have expected. You know full well none of established registries are going to do anything other than milk the existing cash cow till it's dry. The SABT has closed the registry to new Boerboels in South Africa..... ya think that was to allow their shareholder stock diluted by American bandogs ? It's all antithetical to the pyramid scheme which is pure bred dogs. The AKC... oh yea . The USBA.... ? at their peril.

I do believe, that anyone who does much pedigree research on boerboels will find almost all, in very short order, lead to to the same handful of dogs. A sensible registry might consider allowing and monitoring outcrosses as I understand the main English kennel club has now started to acknowledge the need for. A process that registers an outcross and back and back to the breed until such time as they deem it "pure" again. But I believe they specify to what.... and I don't believe it's a cross. A more sensible first step might be to simply open the registry again to new Boerboels. I'll betcha I can find one that has to something offer over there.

Of course registries being a lot like individuals in dogs, those who don't would condemn those who do, seek to discredit them, and I suspect that would be too high a price to pay for any.


Andrew J

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Replies:

  • Re: Bandogs-Swinfords-Outcross breedings... -- Lee, 16:29:31 11/17/09 Tue
  • Re: Bandogs-Swinfords-Outcross breedings... -- DKH, 19:15:45 11/17/09 Tue
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