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Date Posted: 08:43:15 10/25/02 Fri
Author: tamarisk
Subject: ACNR/Dolly/Bethany

Here we go again.

~Margaret~
In Response To Coinkydink
Friday October 25, 2002 at 9:58

"The killer verse to trinitarianism is Isaiah 9:6. If Isaiah refers to the coming Mesiah whom we assume to be Jesus, as a son/child, look at all His roles and titles:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given.
And the government shall be upon His shoulders.
And His name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor [counsellor is the Holy Ghost, Comforter]
The mighty God

The everlasting Father

The Prince of Peace (another euphamism for Holy Ghost).

No way getting around Isaiah: the Son will be called the Father, THE mighty God.

Similarly, Jesus called himself the Branch, the vine, the root; the door, shepherd. He used many symbols to represent His multiple roles/ relationships to man."

What Mags fails to understand here is prophetic perfects. The prophet Isaiah speaks of Him being already born. There is a play on words here between:

child is given--Hebrew yalad--to be delivered, as in birth, and,

a son is given--Hebrew natan--the real significance of this unique Child comes in His fourfold name which is a testimony to the Triune G_d.

Wonderful, Counselor--Hebrew pele' yo'ets--actually one title in the Hebrew.

Wonder, from pele,' is from that which is miracously accomplished by G_d Himself.

The two words of this title may be rendered "a wonderful counsellor" or " a wonderful counselor." The term "counselor" is often used in parallel with "king," so that the emphasis here implies that of G_d-like counsel of a G_d like King.

The mighty G_d--Hebrew 'el gibbor--'el in Isaiah always is used of G_d and never refers to man. This is the strongest of the titles with reference to deity. Gibbor means hero.

The everlasting Father--Hebrew 'abiy'ad--means Father of Eternity. Notice the usual Hebrew word for father, abba, is NOT used here. Y'shua is indeed in Triunity with Abba G_d and the Ruach HaKodesh, The Holy Spirit of G_d. He is the Lord of eternity, as well as the Author of eternal life. He is "of old, from everlasting"(Micah 5:2).

Here we clearly see the Davidic Throne, which will be forever, is to be perserved. It will seat a ruler who Himself is Eternal! The Prince of Peace--Hebrew shar-shalom--Rather than a warring monarch, He who is the Mighty G_d will be a benevolent Father, bringing peace that will be eternally established in His kingdom.

Who's Kindgom Mags? NOT yours nor mine, but His. The rule of His Law will be peace on earth because he is the very embodiment of peace itself.

We know, from this text, of His kingdom, throne, world rule, as well of His virgin birth. More than this, we know who He is------G_d Himself incarnate!

Again Mags, Y'shua could full make the truthful claim to be fully G_d, yet fully man. Y'shua, no where in Scripture, claimed to be Abba G_d, The Father, nor the Ruach HaKodesh, The Holy Sprirt of G_d.

Your moral relativity, claiming if you are right, yule still have eternal security, in and of itself, is a doctrine of demons and from the pit of Hell.

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