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Clarifying Christian Activism verses Unbiblical 501c3 Churches -- Sola Scriptura, 19:50:34 01/23/03 Thu
There are no New Testament examples to support today's "Christian activism." Neither Paul, nor Jesus, Himself ever demonstrated by example a clear teaching for regenerate believers to follow that gives reason for us to believe that we are to use physical force as means of forcing "Godly principles" on others who are either within or without our government. If there were ever corrupt Un-Godly governments in the course of history; the Roman Empire of their time certainly would certainly take home honors. Remember these are the folks who used Christians as tiki torches! Taking matters into our own hands by means of physical force is the antithesis of the teachings of Christ and a recipe for total anarchy if everyone dis-obeyed the law of the land in favor of "Biblical principles" as they understood them. The growing number of denominations today claiming to be correct in their teachings is a testament to how varied and without consensus the understanding of "Biblical Principles" is. The following is another viewpoint more in keeping with how the Holy Spirit has spoken to this staunchly pro-lifer's heart on the issue. - Sola.
__________________________________________________________
Christian Activism
Change through Coercion?
by Dave Hunt
The Berean Call
Increasing numbers of Christians are engaging in social and political "activism" for the astonishing purpose of attempting to coerce an ungodly society into adopting Christian standards of conduct. "Operation Rescue" is one example. Its founder, Randall Terry, explains that its purpose is to create social upheaval and thereby pressure government into changing the abortion laws. A typical brochure declares, "Rescues help produce the social tension necessary for political change....[W]hether for good or bad, political change comes after groups of Americans bring enough tension to the nation and pressure on politicians that the laws are changed."
No matter how commendable the goal of such tactics, there is not one example in the entire Bible of political or social "activism" ever being advocated or used by God's people. That fact must weigh heavily upon any consideration of this important topic. There are numerous cases of civil disobedience in Scripture, but it was never engaged in for the purpose of forcing an ungodly society to obey Biblical principles. The Hebrew midwives, for example, disobeyed Pharaoh's edict and spared the lives of the male babies, even lying to cover up their "rescue operation." God was so pleased with their obedience to Him that their names, Shiphrah and Puah, have been preserved for us (Exodus 1:15-22). This was, however, a matter of individual conscience before God, not an organized attempt to pressure the pagan Egyptians by mass demonstrations into adopting Israel's God-given morals.
The same is true of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego's refusal to obey the king's command to bow to an idol, and of Daniel's defiance of the royal decree against prayer. Though boldly witnessing for God even to kings, Daniel never used his high government position to attempt to pressure a pagan society into practicing a godly way of life. Nor did Joseph or Esther pressure the pagan societies, in which they held high positions, to adopt Biblical morals. So it was with Ezra and Nehemiah. They used their influence with kings to obtain permission to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, but made no attempt to change the practices of those societies though they practiced abortion, homosexuality, and other evils.
Biblical Examples?
There are no Biblical examples to support today's "Christian activism." Christ "suffered for us, leaving us an example that we should follow his steps." He sternly and repeatedly rebuked Israel's false religious leaders, yet He never spoke out—not even once—against the injustices of Roman civil authority! Nor did He advocate, organize, or engage in any public protests to pressure Rome into changing its corrupt system, or the society of His day its evil ways. He submitted to unjust authorities as Romans 13 tells us we should do today: "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously" (1 Peter 2:21-25). No "activism" here! So it was with the apostles and the early church.
Yes, Paul told the centurion, who was about to have him unlawfully scourged, that he was a Roman citizen; and he told the local officials at Philippi to come and apologize for beating him and Silas without trial. That was not, however, political/social "activism." He was not attempting thereby to change society; he was simply standing up for his personal rights under the law—as we should do, which includes voting.
Paul was determined to obey God rather than men and never held back from preaching the gospel, though it meant his life. If "Christian activism" is God's will, Paul would have been the first to pursue it fearlessly at whatever cost.
Scripture, then, from Genesis to Revelation, offers neither example nor doctrinal teaching to support the idea that Christians ought to engage in political/social activism, lobbying, takeover methods of Coalition on Revival—or that Christians in public office could or should influence society to adopt Biblical standards of conduct. Don't forget, any change would have to be effected through a corrupt political system involving an ungodly majority above and below. Romans 13 tells us to obey rulers, and 1 Timothy 2 to pray for them—not to attempt to change them by coercion. It is not only foolish but counterproductive to attempt to persuade the unsaved to live like Christians. They can't do it—and if they could it would only blind them the more to their sin and need of a Savior.
Acts 19:23-41 tells how a large group of citizens in Ephesus staged a huge "demonstration" against Paul and the gospel he preached. A crowd of probably several thousand persons tore their clothes, threw dust in the air and for two hours vociferously chanted their praise to the locally manufactured god that was their chief source of income."Great is Diana of the Ephesians!" they cried. Should Paul have gathered a larger crowd of Christians to cry out yet more loudly and longer and thereby impose their will upon the local authorities? Of course not! Such un-Christian conduct is demeaning of our Lord and His gospel and would have been unthinkable for the early church. Yet that is basically what "Christian activism" involves today—the well-meaning but foolish attempt to force "Christian principles" upon a godless society through more effective lobbying, larger demonstrations and greater "social upheaval" than the homosexuals, abortionists or pornographers can produce.
Won to Christ—Living for Christ
Rather than to pressure the ungodly to live like saints, we must win them to Christ that they might live wholly for God. Our personal lives must be lived in obedience to God's laws even if that brings us into conflict with civil laws. In addition to avoiding idolatry and immorality, Christians must preach the gospel to everyone everywhere, regardless of government edicts to the contrary. In so doing, the apostles made that historic declaration: "We ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29)! Their example has been followed by Christians down through the centuries, from the martyrs under pagan Rome and its successor, Roman Catholicism, to those who smuggle Bibles into Islamic or communist lands today.
Though forbidden by the authorities, the apostles persisted in preaching the gospel. Like their Lord, however, they made no attempt to lobby in Rome for an end to prostitution and abortions; nor did they stage public demonstrations for a change in unjust laws. There is a danger of being so caught up in the social aspect of good causes that one forgets and neglects the chief Christian calling. The Great Commission does not involve exerting a Christian influence upon society. We are not to "change society," but to "convert individuals." There is much talk today about "changing the world for Christ." In fact there is no Biblical teaching or example to support that popular slogan. Rather than persuading sinners to live like saints, we must call them to heavenly citizenship through "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21).
But aren't we supposed to be "salt and light" in the world (Matthew 5:13-16)? Yes, Christ said so. To understand what he meant, we must look to Him as our perfect example. Jesus, "the light of the world," never advocated or tried to effect social/political change. His light reveals sin and leads men to salvation, fitting them for heaven (Ephesians 5:8-13). Salt purifies the wound that light reveals and reproves.
Significant changes in society have been effected by preaching and example. Nevertheless, the abolition of slavery, the enactment of child labor laws and greater rights for women, while they are improvements to be thankful for, have not made society any more godly. Nor is it any more likely under these better conditions that a higher percentage of mankind will end up in heaven than before. While such changes are worth working for, many who call themselves Christians have become so absorbed in good causes that they have lost their fervor for saving souls. They have ended up joining forces with non-Christians who also espouse "traditional values," and in promoting a compromised "social gospel" that cannot save.
What Should We Do Then?
Yet the good that social/political activism often produces is a strong motivation for engaging in it. Many Christians were involved in the civil rights movement that finally ended segregation. Surely it is not wrong for Christians to engage in such activities! Certainly the innocent babies who are being murdered in abortion clinics, just as the Jews were in Nazi extermination camps, ought to be rescued! Should Christians do nothing? Is there no basis in Scripture for helping those who are downtrodden?
Yes, the Bible warns us, "If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; if thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?" (Proverbs 24:11-12). The parable of the Good Samaritan, too, tells us that we ought to care for all those who are in need of help, even as Christ commands: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Matthew 7:12). These principles come under God's law written in the consciences of all mankind: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
We ought to do all we can to rescue babies who are being aborted, just as we would seek to rescue anyone in danger. The Bible doesn't tell us what individual saints may have done in this regard because it is not specifically a Christian task nor is it something which has been assigned to the church, but is the responsibility of every person. Moreover, "Rescues" should be engaged in to save lives—not for the purpose of creating "social upheaval" to coerce an evil society into adopting Biblical standards.
When Gorbachev granted freedom of worship and preaching in the Soviet Union comparable to what we have enjoyed in the West, what were his motives? Like Constantine in ancient Rome, he found this necessary for the good of the Empire—and may have even thought that freedom would destroy the church even more effectively than oppression. Indeed, such has been the case. Sadly, many Soviet Christians who have managed to bring their families out to the West and have initially thanked God for liberty, have lost their children to drugs, free sex, pride, lust, and worldliness—evils that seem to be a greater hazard for believers in the West's "freedom" than under communist oppression.
The True Scale of the Rescue Operation
Today's "Christian activism" is far too narrow and selective. It addresses certain issues but ignores many others of equal or greater importance. We must not only rescue the unborn, but the children in public schools who are being perverted through the teaching of immorality, witchcraft, and occultism. We must identify psychology as the major vehicle of so much of this evil, and root it out of our churches, seminaries and universities.
We must denounce sin, call for national repentance, and preach the gospel in convicting power. Christians must call for repentance not only for homosexuality, child abuse, pornography and abortion, but for more subtle forms of rebellion against God and rejection of Christ. The church must be indicted not only for its lack of social concern, but for its heresies and failure to preach the truth. We must denounce the destructive false teachings that abound. It is hypocritical for the church to protest the world's sins while tolerating within itself and honoring those who preach a false gospel and are the enemies of the cross of Christ.
Instead of protests we need prophets who call the world to repentance: Enochs who walk with God and warn of judgment (Genesis 5:22-24, Jude 14-15); Noahs, "preachers of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), who warn of judgment to come and invite sinners into an ark of safety. What if, instead of building the ark, Noah had tried to reform society! We need Daniels: "Mene, mene, tekel upharsin"—the handwriting is on the wall, America! You've been weighed in the balance and found wanting! Murdered babies, the abomination of homosexuality, and society's flippant, deliberate rebellion against God have aroused His anger beyond any possibility of reprieve! We need Isaiahs and Jeremiahs, who had never heard of making a "positive confession" or of the "power of positive or possibility thinking," but preached truth!
"Christian activism" is not Christian. It represents a detour from the straight path the church is to walk before the world. It can confuse the real issues, lead to compromise and unholy alliances, and divert time and effort that would better be used in proclaiming the gospel. Weigh the demands upon your time and set priorities. Be fully engaged in rescuing souls for eternity.
—Dave Hunt
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Bishop to Gov. Davis: Choose Abortion or Communion -- ekklesia, 23:53:03 01/23/03 Thu
Bishop to Gov. Davis: Choose Abortion or Communion
At least one bishop in America is enforcing the Vatican's warning to allegedly Catholic politicians. Sacramento Bishop William Weigand says California Gov. Gray Davis must renounce his support of abortion or stop taking Holy Communion.
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/1/23/160333
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Don't you hate it when Tatwas eat your HTML's? -- Dolly ate some popcorn & her agitated Tatwas ate her HTMLs, 23:02:11 01/22/03 Wed
In the file titled: I think They've Landed ( ten dead Tatwas later)......
An Atheist, Satanist and Meta-physical whack job from a lateral cosmic plane gathered briefly at St. Susan’s for but a fleeting moment in time to exchange information pertaining to life’s intricacies with their own special sub-tile nuance attributed to their "deeper knowledge" of all things profound.
http://www.webforums.com/forums/f-read/msa56.83.html
Mindless on Abortion…………….:
”Minder
In Response To GerryBWednesday January 22, 2003 at 10:34
Regarding abortion: Regardless what you need to do about abortion, please keep in mind that each and every female who aborts a child has aborted a Soul's attempt to enter Creation. This is a primal sin, that will demand severe Karmic restitution by the female who denies life to a Soul. Feel great pity for such women for the times without number they will be aborted in their own attempts to seek life.”
Mindless’ Claim That Jesus Was a Vegetarian………………:
minder
In Response To Margaret and Sim
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 9:55
Why do you suppose Christ, being an Asscene (sp), was a vegetarian? Because vegetables contain the least Karmic debt. Every Perfect Living Master is vegetarian. A Tatwa is a life element.
There is one Tatwa in vegetables.
Two in creepy crawlers,
three in fish and foul,
four in warm blooded animals, and five in Man.
The fifth element being ether, or the faculty of discretion. Without a Soul, a thing is inanimate, without life.
How Mindless Knows Jesus Was a Vegetarian…………..:
minder
In Response To GerryB
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 10:17
(Gerry said) "He ate fish and most scholars believe that He ate meat as well."
(Minder responds) ”Well, you listen to your scholars. Me, I will listen to my own Master, and take a clue from the records of other Saints and PLMs. I didn't know until I knew, and I'm sure the same holds true for everyone. “
Ctag Levitates Upon The Scene And Challenges With a Cosmic Utterance Goven Him From HIS “Master”……………..:
`Ctaj
In Response To minder
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 11:35
If there's one Tatwa in a single bean plant, how many Tatwa's were sacrificed to make a 4-bean salad?
….my kind of humor, Ctag. LOL!
`Ctaj
In Response To Stephan James
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 11:56
Which brings us to corn. Does the whole corn plant only have one Tatwa, or is there a Tatwa for each kernal of corn? How many Tatwa's are sacrificed in a bowl of popcorn?
`Ctaj
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 12:27
(SJ says)” If Man has five(tatwas)...well, anyone wanna join me for a Manburger? LOL”
(CTAG responds) “…….my point is that if there's a Tatwa per seed or kernal, then chowing down on a couple of ears of corn on the cob would give you a hundred times the Tatwas of a manburger. Minder's theory of less karmic baggage via vegetarianism is all wet.
Never quite heard it countered that way, but....
IT FINIALLY ENDS WITH SOME PROFOUNDLY KEEN INSIGHT, WISDOM & TRUTH FROM MINDLESS:
minder
In Response To all
Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 10:49
"Peace. I'm off."
…….Boy, is he ever! LOL! Now a moment of silence while I go lay to rest some dead Tatwas. Since they were of no particular religious inclinations, I wonder if Bishop Dakeite, Inc. from Moore would officiate their service. I will even throw in a catchy phrased pocket pen holder that look so good on him. :-)
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Re: My "Sixth Sense"tells me that Smell from St. Susan's is not "Aromatherapy" -- tamarisk, 09:23:54 01/23/03 Thu
WRT--"Minder
In Response To GerryB Wednesday January 22, 2003 at 10:34
Regarding abortion: Regardless what you need to do about abortion, please keep in mind that each and every female who aborts a child has aborted a Soul's attempt to enter Creation. This is a primal sin, that will demand severe Karmic restitution by the female who denies life to a Soul. Feel great pity for such women for the times without number they will be aborted in their own attempts to seek life.”"
Such is the (mindless)mind of the typical new age whore. If what Minder sayz is truth, the soul's of aborted babies enter into heaven, why would G_d be so concerned about the killing of innocent babies, in their mother's womb? Could it be that baby's soul does NOT enter into "creation"(heaven) when it dies from abortion?
If we follow the failed logic of Minder, and, I sorry to report, many calling themselves Christian, why would G_d not rejoice in the killing of babies in their mother's womb? After all, according to this failed belief, the more babies murdered by abortion, the more souls populate heaven. That would justify the Neo-Evangelical Church NOT standing in front of the execution chambers, called abortuaries.
Prov 1:1-9
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
(KJV)
"Ornaments of grace" and "chains about thy neck," indeed!
Minder, the judgment upon females(I refuse to call them women), is clear from research. There is over a 200% increase in incidents of breast cancer in women who have aborted babies. There are those documented cases of women who were maimed by the baby killer, thus being unable to conceive. Then, the women who die at the hand of the baby killer. It has happened here in Arizona. Two familiar baby killers have been arrested, tried and convicted for their "malpractice."
Minder, there are sins of omission and commission. After standing out front of execution chambers, for a number of years, seeing females dragged into the place by boyfriends, husbands, mothers and fathers, other family and "friends," you don't know how many people have innocent blood on their hands. I remember a tear filled teenager, being dragged into the "clinic" by her boyfriend and parents. You only need look into the eyes of one female, being dragged into the place, against her will, to make a strong, lasting impression upon you.
Why "save" babies, Minder? If you investigate the George W. Bush/Vicente Fox connection, you may get some insight. Fox, the president of Mexico has stated, AmeriKa needs all the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico and Central AmeriKa because the "good ol' U.S of A." has killed over 60 million babies by abortion.
Just think of this for a moment. Our great sin of killing our unborn babies in their mother's womb has led to the great judgment of millions of illegal aliens coming from other countries.
The beat goes on because the majority of the Church is Laodicean. The are silent, being neither hot nor cold.
G_d bless AmeriKa?? Why would He?
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PFAKES - Peddling a popularized God in sound-bite mentality with "Holy Hardware" -- Matthew 15:7, 22:21:38 01/22/03 Wed
Jack endorses and links this site to his as a supposed "Christian Discussion Board" You decide (note that the original takes up a full page with multi colored one inch type face):
”Christian Bible Discussion Board
"A board devoted to the study of God's Word in honor of
Rev. Finis J. Dake and Rev. Larry K. Etherton."
For the lowest prices on Dake Bibles, software, books and other Bible study items, including the Dake Compact Bible & Dake Large Print Bible (“click here” link provided)
” Christian” Shirts and more.com
Christian Hats, Mouse Pads, Jackets, Shirts, Sweat Shirts & SO MUCH MORE!”
___________________________________________________________
It should not come as a surprise that Bishop External Spirituality, INC would not only tolerate such crass merchandizing of Christ’s Precious Blood, but actually send his compliments to the offender.
(prolly along with the hopes of a juicy 20% discount on his next order of holy sweat pants.)
”Posted by: RevJack (11/23/02 11:33:16 pm)
Nice Board, Bro. Rob!
You have a very nice board, Brother!
Keep up the good work! Rev. Jack Howell”
The response by “brother Rob” is a classic too, complete with his seizing the moment to siphon more “Christian dollars” by again advancing his links and pumping his trashy retail “Christian” kitsch, such as his – “Jesus Would Have Ridden a Harley!” merchandise
From: ”Brother Rob Administrator (11/26/02 1:59:19 am)
Reply
Re: Nice Board, Bro. Rob!
Thank you brother!!! God Bless you, REAL GOOD!!!
Rev. Robert M. Etherton, Sr. Christian Board Moderator
EthertonChristianMinistries.com (PROVIDES LINK)
Christian Shirts And More .com (PROVIDES ANOTHER LINK)
_______________________________________________________
“Bless you real good”????? What depth.
Here is a logo that sums up how they appear to others:
“Ask NOT what you can do for Jesus – Ask WHAT CAN JESUS DO FOR ME?”
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Re: PFAKES - Peddling a popularized God in sound-bite mentality with "Holy Hardware" -- Tamarisk, 23:16:45 01/22/03 Wed
I seepose I just don't have the same charismatic gifts, Dake and his Fowler followers claim to have. Here is what I go by:
Luke 12:11-12
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
(KJV)
When you are brought before the Jewish Courts by the Neo-Evangelical, Neo-Fundamental "church-leaders" of today, or the magistrates of man's court and Gentile leaders, to examine "your" doctrine; ALL YOUR SCRIPTURAL STUDY, YOUR DAKE AND YOUR KJV, YOUR BIBLE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE USELESS. For if you are truly a child of the Most High G_d, His Spirit will move your lips to give His message before man.
Those in the Charismatic ranks believe being popular means something. They have bought into the Church Growth Movement so they can be somebody before men. There are those which have made G_d's Church a 3-ring circus through false doctrines and false spiritual gifts.
Revelation 2:9; 3:9 are quite clear about those claiming to be Jews, yet are not. Their testimony doesn't match their position and practice. Just as the Lord Jesus has a Church in this world, the spiritual Israel of G_d, so has the debil a synogogue. Those assemblies which are set up in opposition to the truths of the gospel, and which promote and propagate damnable errors,-- those which are set up in opposition to the purity and spirituality of gospel worship, and which promote and propagate the vain inventions of men and rites and ceremonies which never entered into the thoughts of God,-- these are all synagogues of Satan: he presides over them, he works in them, his interests are served by them, and he receives a horrid homage and honour from them.
For the synagogues of Satan to give themselves out to be the church or Israel of God is no less than blasphemy. God is greatly dishonoured when his name is made use of to promote and patronize the interests of Satan; and he has a high resentment of this blasphemy, and will take a just revenge on those who persist in it.
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PFAKES - Peddling a popularized God in sound-bite mentality with "Holy Hardware" -- ekklesia, 08:04:27 01/23/03 Thu
Modern day money changers: Prostituting Christ's Blood for the almighty buck.
Must be the reason he's known as:
BROTHER ROB!
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Counterfeit Bishops are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions -- Dr. Mike, Your mouth is OILY, dirty and defiled. REPENT!, 22:36:29 01/19/03 Sun
Counterfeit Bishops are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions.
The Liar & Deceiver Mike Kear speaking of this board announced that he was....:
“Done With 'Em…… it is time for me to have nothing more to do with them…… I'm not going to do that anymore. I won't go back over there to that snake pit (they can check their stats - I won't be back…... So, no more attention from Dr. Mike! There are things to be done.”
•PLEASE NOTE: We have maintained all along that Mike Kear was a man of no moral convictions, a deceiver and dishonest man whose word was not worth the air it displaces.
Dr. Mike Paints a Picture of Moral Carelessness in His Selection of Speech
Dr. Mike, Your mouth is dirty and defiled. With your mouth you cast lies about men and women who were made in the image of God; using gutter argumentum ad hominem tactics calling women you know nothing about “murderers” and maintaining without any attempt at factual support, that I “glorify child killing.” Your course also is evil and your might is not right.
And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. And those who claim to be anointed, those who act like Amaziah and are more fond of their “title” than doing what is right before a Holy and righteous God who sees your dirty ad hominem attacks and created those you assail with unrighteous judgment. And slander with comments that have no basis in truth. Why don’t the good bishops-deux ever tag these wild claims with supporting facts? Noticeably absent from all your posts are any collaborating proof.
“Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?”
Your fellow “anointed bishop” who is like an oven heated by the baker, never ceases to stir up the fire of strife and is forever showing his fruit by the kneading of the dough until it is over-leavened. This is the same oily mouthed “anointed” man of “God” who was making the internet forum rounds telling people I was a male pedophile that I molested little boys. He claimed I was a member of NAMBLA. For weeks this slander was waged against me with no effort to support it and it did not end until he learned that I was a woman. You folks are anointed alright. By the prince of the power of the air and your fruit keeps his flies constantly nourished. Jack and Kear who’s feet, (as shown in his posts), which are quick to run to sin, will just invent some other argumentum ad hominem after their calling me a murderer, militia member-sympathizer, Leftest, and trailer-trash looses it’s charm. The reason for their behavior is the prince of the power of the air, is the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
The Real Dr. Mike Kear: ” Says tamarisk: "McVeigh was not the monster he was made out to be." (context which was deleted by the good Dr is available on this page) “Spoken like a true neo-nazi who has obviously never been to the bombing sight in Oklahoma City where McVeigh murdered children in the name of the militia cause. Tamarisk, Sola, and their ilk can glorify their child killing hero all day long, but the Bible says it is wrong. It grieves my heart to think that there are people out there who are enjoying the fruits of living in America while at the same time thinking that it is fine and dandy to murder innocent people in the name of their hatred for America. It grieves me even more that these people think they are Christians. Hatred, racism and murder are not Christian virtues. Methinks that tamarisk's hatred of Okahoma Governor Frank Keating is not so much based on Keating's faith, but rather on the fact that Governor Keating was a beacon of freedom and bravery during the time that tamarisk's pusillanimous terrorist buddies were rejoicing over the bodies of dead children."
I posit that the only thing that grieves that oily mouthed man who claims his words are of Christ, is having his deceit challenged. FYI, “doc” – THIS so called ”LEFTEST” was a State Rep. for the CONSERVATIVE wing of the Republican party and one of the vociferous opponents challenging the liberal pro-abortion Bush, Sr. entourage (among a laundry list of Sr.’s other un-Christian stands at the time!)
(the REAL PUSILLANIMOUS issue here is the gleeful character assassination and un-Godly ambush that the gracious and light filled good doctor takes immeasurable delight in attacking innocent persons on this board by making off the wall, unsubstantiated remarks as those in the above paragraph. BEYOND ALL EVIDENCE OF HIS CLAIMS TO MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY TO A HIGHER POWER!)
“Jesus in His Word tells me to bless those who curse me. We have been cursed repeatedly on the Militia Board for our stand for Christ, for justice and freedom. Now I want to bless tamarisk, sola, and all their cell members. May the Lord bless you. May you find peace in your hearts. May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit enlighten your hearts in the love of God. A Servant of Jesus,
Dr. Mike”
For additional character/credibility of Dr. Mike, Remember this is the same man who endorses Ken Copeland’s website and his teachings. Ken Copeland made the following publicly documented quotes:
Copeland: "Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord." (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9)
Copeland: "I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'" (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on
TBN, recorded 7/9/87)
Copeland: "God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon", broadcast on TBN, recorded 1988)
2 Peter 2
Destructive Doctrines such as those taught and promoted by some at PFAI
False Teaching and False Teachers
1” But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”
Doom of False Teachers
”4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)-- 9then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.”
Depravity of False Teachers
12” But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. NKJV - AMEN and AMEN!
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Counterfeit Bishops are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions -- did Jesus teach you to call people "trailer-trash," "doc", 22:50:11 01/19/03 Sun
Counterfeit Bishops are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions.
The Liar & Deceiver Mike Kear: “Done With 'Em…… it is time for me to have nothing more to do with them…… I'm not going to do that anymore. I won't go back over there to that snake pit (they can check their stats - I won't be back…... So, no more attention from Dr. Mike! There are things to be done.”
• NOTE: We have maintained all along that Mike Kear was a deceiver and dishonest man whose word was not worth the air it displaces.
Dr. Mike Paints a Picture of Moral Carelessness in His Selection of Speech
Dr. Mike, Your mouth is dirty and defiled. With your mouth you cast lies about men and women who were made in the image of God; using gutter argumentum ad hominem tactics calling women you know nothing about “murderers” and maintaining without any attempt at factual support, that I “glorify child killing.” Your course also is evil and your might is not right.
And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. And those who claim to be anointed, those who act like Amaziah and are more fond of their “title” than doing what is right before a Holy and righteous God who sees your dirty ad hominem attacks and created those you assail with unrighteous judgment. And slander with comments that have no basis in truth. Why don’t the good bishops-deux ever tag these wild claims with supporting facts? Noticeably absent from all your posts are any collaborating proof.
“Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?”
Your fellow “anointed bishop” who is like an oven heated by the baker, never ceases to stir up the fire of strife and is forever showing his fruit by the kneading of the dough until it is over-leavened. This is the same oily mouthed “anointed” man of “God” who was making the internet forum rounds telling people I was a male pedophile that I molested little boys. He claimed I was a member of NAMBLA. For weeks this slander was waged against me with no effort to support it and it did not end until he learned that I was a woman. You folks are anointed alright. By the prince of the power of the air and your fruit keeps his flies constantly nourished. Jack and Kear who’s feet, (as shown in his posts), which are quick to run to sin, will just invent some other argumentum ad hominem after their calling me a murderer, militia member-sympathizer, Leftest, and trailer-trash looses it’s charm. The reason for their behavior is the prince of the power of the air, is the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
The Real Dr. Mike Kear: ” Says tamarisk: "McVeigh was not the monster he was made out to be." (context which was deleted by the good Dr is available on this page) “Spoken like a true neo-nazi who has obviously never been to the bombing sight in Oklahoma City where McVeigh murdered children in the name of the militia cause. Tamarisk, Sola, and their ilk can glorify their child killing hero all day long, but the Bible says it is wrong. It grieves my heart to think that there are people out there who are enjoying the fruits of living in America while at the same time thinking that it is fine and dandy to murder innocent people in the name of their hatred for America. It grieves me even more that these people think they are Christians. Hatred, racism and murder are not Christian virtues. Methinks that tamarisk's hatred of Okahoma Governor Frank Keating is not so much based on Keating's faith, but rather on the fact that Governor Keating was a beacon of freedom and bravery during the time that tamarisk's pusillanimous terrorist buddies were rejoicing over the bodies of dead children.
The only thing that grieves that oily mouthed man is having his deceit challenged. BTW, “doc” – THIS ”LEFTEST” was a State Rep. for the CONSERVATIVE wing of the Republican party and one of the vociferous opponents challenging the liberal pro-abortion Bush, Sr. entourage (among a laundry list of Sr.’s other un-Christian stands)
(the REAL PUSILLANIMOUS issue here is the gleeful character assassination and un-Godly ambush that the gracious and light filled good doctor takes immeasurable delight in attacking innocent persons on this board by making off the wall, unsubstantiated remarks as those in the above paragraph. BEYOND ALL EVIDENCE OF HIS CLAIMS TO MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY TO A HIGHER POWER!)
“Jesus in His Word tells me to bless those who curse me. We have been cursed repeatedly on the Militia Board for our stand for Christ, for justice and freedom. Now I want to bless tamarisk, sola, and all their cell members. May the Lord bless you. May you find peace in your hearts. May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit enlighten your hearts in the love of God. A Servant of Jesus,
Dr. Mike”
For additional character/credibility of Dr. Mike, Remember this is the same man who endorses Ken Copeland’s website and his teachings. Ken Copeland made the following publicly documented quotes:
Copeland: "Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord." (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9)
Copeland: "I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'" (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on
TBN, recorded 7/9/87)
Copeland: "God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon", broadcast on TBN, recorded 1988)
2 Peter 2
Destructive Doctrines such as those taught and promoted by some at PFAI
False Teaching and False Teachers
1” But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”
Doom of False Teachers
”4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)-- 9then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.”
Depravity of False Teachers
12” But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. NKJV - AMEN and AMEN!
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Re: Counterfeit Bishops are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions -- tamarisk, 08:20:28 01/22/03 Wed
WRT--“Jesus in His Word tells me to bless those who curse me. We have been cursed repeatedly on the Militia Board for our stand for Christ, for justice and freedom. Now I want to bless tamarisk, sola, and all their cell members. May the Lord bless you. May you find peace in your hearts. May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit enlighten your hearts in the love of God. A Servant of Jesus,
Dr. Mike”
Well, guess this comes for one not knowing biblically, the difference between cursing a curse, swearing an oath, and being profane.
It's like someone invited them here in the first place. lol! But, the Fowler types are like that. They have become so deluded in their modern ecumenism, they no longer know the whole truth and nott'in but the truth.
WRT--"Tamarisk, Sola, and their ilk can glorify their child killing hero all day long, but the Bible says it is wrong. It grieves my heart to think that there are people out there who are enjoying the fruits of living in America while at the same time thinking that it is fine and dandy to murder innocent people in the name of their hatred for America. It grieves me even more that these people think they are Christians. Hatred, racism and murder are not Christian virtues. Methinks that tamarisk's hatred of Okahoma Governor Frank Keating is not so much based on Keating's faith, but rather on the fact that Governor Keating was a beacon of freedom and bravery during the time that tamarisk's pusillanimous terrorist buddies were rejoicing over the bodies of dead children."
No one I personally know, rejoiced over the shedding of innocent blood in OKC and Waco. I just wonder where were the Keating and Fowler types when Randy Weaver's wife and baby were killed at the hands of Butch Reno's BATF, at Ruby Ridge? When Dr. Greg Dixon was carried out of the IBT for his beliefs and teachings on the Unregistered Church? Dr. Dixon, BTW, NEVER preached to his people to NOT pay their taxes. What he DID preach is the Church should NOT BE AN AGENT FOR THE IRS, to collect taxes.
If the Fowler types believe they are NOT suffering from Rank Duplicity, Situational Ethics and Moral Relativity, why don't they stand with others, in front of the baby execution chambers in OKC?
If they really believe child killing is wrong, why are they just sitting on their false and wrong thoughts on Human Government, and do something about child killing in AmeriKa today.
Today, many thousands are marching in Washington, DC. It is the 30th anniversary of the Supreme Court rulling of Row v. Wade. The only thing "supreme" is their sin, before G_d. On the wall of the court is a copy of the tablets of the 10 Commandments. They violate them each and every day, over the past 30 years, they have allowed babies to be killed in their mother's womb.
You won't hear the whole truth from the Fowler types. Good riddance.
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Re: Shock-Doc Is A few Peas Short of a Casserole. -- tamarisk, 07:42:06 01/20/03 Mon
It's interesting, ain't it? They can't look in the mirror to see the reflection of someone much closer to the politics of, say, a Slick Willie, Hillary the Hun, and Butch Reno. All known fag loving liberal, demoncrats believing the goobermint needs to be in the church. The goobermint, through IRS incorporation is elated to be "invited" into the church. Under the Constitution of the united States of America, the goobermint cannot be "involved" in the church. They only way they can come in is by invitation. The Fowler types are some of the least patriotic in the institution called the Church in AmeriKa.
I investigated McVeigh's Kingman connection 5 years ago. I spoke with a few of those who worked with him and the motel manager where he stayed for a time. The Fowler types can certainly call the True Value Hardware store and the Hilltop Motel to find out the truth for themselves.
I interviewed, at length, the owner/manager of the Hilltop Motel, one day. He told me he had long discussions with McVeigh and found him to be most pleasant. A likable person. I received much insight into who McVeigh associated with, etc. The motel manager told me called the FBI over some of the passages McVeigh had underlined in Gideon in his room. One was:
Luke 4:18
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(KJV)
The motel manager stated the FBI sent out their "bible experts" to retrieve the bible as evidence. McVeigh, under the usage of mind and mood altering drugs(most of which comes from NASA, NSA and CIA labs in AmeriKa) and heavy mind control tactics of his "handlers," believed the scripture above meant him. This is why McVeigh was much closer in his false doctrine, to the Neo-Conservative, Neo-Fundamental, Neo-Evangelical Fowler types infesting the church today.
The Neo-types fail daily in the Lord's Commission because they fail to cry out against the goobermint's wholesale approval of execution by abortion in their mother's womb. The great sim of omission is that you failed to help those being led to slaughter and drawn to death. You have failed to visit those in prison.
The Fowler types have to stop and consider the "cost" to them in preaching the whole truth. They couldn't handle being under the "microscope" of the goobermint, as I was, after I started communicating with McVeigh. They remind me of the pastor of Central Baptist Church, I spoke with while traveling 5 years ago. His position on the Unregistered Church was, "The government is not bothering us!" The position here is, of course, if the time comes when they do start bothering us, we'll be able to do something about it. Rutza Ruck!!!
You may be so dumbed down, so deluded in your teachings, position and practice, you won't be able to fight.
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Bishop Baseball Cap, Inc. is on a discerning streak! LOL! -- ekklesia, 23:27:50 01/21/03 Tue
Speaking of geo-political ingrates who claim to be “anointed” ... and haven’t the intellect or grasp...to work their way out of a moist paper sack; This intelligent observation comes our way from the room temperature IQ Bishop Baseball Cap, INC:
......."claiming to be Independent Baptists but in reality, as we have shown, are nothing more that leftist anti-american, anti-government fruitcakes who merely pay lip service to God without really knowing Him."
It is proven by the content of those remarks that the man who wrote the above comments is not a discerning man.
~ ~ ~ The Un-Clean Spirit Entered him October 23, 1955 ~ ~ ~
(re-post from Tamarisk making some keen observations....)
..."If'in you do the math, Jack was born in 1955. At 18 years of age, he started attending a "Baptist Church" and felt the calling of the Lord and the "Holy Ghost." HE felt that calling as a 19 y/o and this "Baptist Church" licensed him. This same church ordained him at the age of 21. It is interesting because no were in his testimony does he give evidence of this calling. I'd dare say there aren't many true Baptist Churches out there who would license and/or ordain someone that young without being convinced he had a calling on his life. He would have to demonstrate his calling to the satisfaction of the congregation to whom he is responsible. The way a calling is truly realized is by witnesses.
Then, in 1977, he turned away from his "salvation and calling," and turned to the Occult and Satanism. So, for 7 years, the Lord and His "Holy Ghost" stopped working in Jackals life and allowed him to enter into the Occult.
Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(KJV)
The author of Hebrews does not believe this person has lost his salvation. If it were possible to do so, Jackals has no testimony from 1973-1976. He would make G_d a liar and a respector of persons. Instead, Jackals insists he was saved, licensed and ordained, then slipped into apostasy.
He then, "saw the light(house)" in 1984. Since neither a C of C, Baptist nor Pentecostal church can save you, certainly Jackals must believe, back in the '70's, he called himself. The warning here is those who claimed to be saved, and took then at their own estimate of themselves to show the folly of their viewpoint. Your folly Jack, is in believing you can be saved over and over again. Either you were saved twice or not at all.
Ya'll see the subtle language used by satan in his minions. In 1973, he felt the conviction of the "Holy Ghost," was saved and Born Again by accepting Jesus Christ as King and Lord.
He, in 1984, again states a salvation experience. This time he adds baptism and the evidence of speaking in tongues to his salvation experience. Notice too, Jackals is this all loving person, never preaching on Heaven or Hell. Jesus, BTW, preached more on Hell than on Heaven. An eternity in Hell is just as real as one in Heaven, serving our Lord, day and night.
Was just wondering who preached to Jackals he was a Hell-bound sinner needing washing in the precious blood, shed by our Lord on Calvary's Cross.
He is risen, Jack and not you. Without the resurrection, the Gospel message is incomplete. Your "evidence" of salvation by the works of men are meaningless just the same as you calling yourself back in 1973-1975.
Your great problem Jack is immaturity, not insecurity. Your a Hell-Bound sinner who has been deceived by the hocus-pocus, mind controlled magic from the minds of men.
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Re: QUESTION: Do Mike Kear's Claims To Be A Man of Light Ring True? -- ekklesia, 22:30:25 01/17/03 Fri
For they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
James 3
8But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. NKJV
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Rev. Beezle-Bubba, Inc - Roaming The Earth Going Back & Forth In It -- Miss Llama, 07:46:26 01/18/03 Sat
The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan (the accuser) answered the LORD , "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
There is no 'fair use' provision in copyright law that lets you reprint entire articles, without credit as Rev. FOWLER, Inc is wont to do literally HUNDREDS of times across cyberspace. The in items posted at this site, excerpts are quoted and full articles give credit ti their rightful author. These items are provided for personal use and educational research purposes only, under the ''fair use'' concept noted in copyright laws. Copyright for each item remains with the original copyright holder.
Luke 6
41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.'
GET OVER IT SERPENT EGG, Inc. and quit your vacant Luciferic relativism and whining!
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Re: Dake Heirs Are As Selectively Blind & Intellectually Bankrupt as Rt. Rev FOWLER, Inc -- tamarisk, 07:25:00 01/16/03 Thu
Was looking in the "religion" section of my local bookstore the other day. They had a few copies of Dake's bible. At $67.95 a copy, someone is getting rich off of its printing.
Some commentaries are good, others awful. There is lotza money to be made there. I wonder what commentary did the Apostles use concerning the teachings of their Lord Jesus?
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Dake Heirs Are As Selectively Blind & Intellectually Bankrupt as Rt. Rev FOWLER, Inc -- Monsignor Sprinkles, 12:37:43 01/16/03 Thu
I wonder what
>commentary did the Apostles use concerning the
>teachings of their Lord Jesus?
They just looked to Peter, the first pope for guidance, my son.
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Contrast These With Dake Publications - It Is Like Canon & Apocryphal Writings! -- Sola Scriptura, 18:22:47 01/16/03 Thu
COMMENTARY SETS which cover the entire Bible or major portions of the Bible. The following are some sets which David Cloud has found to be very helpful in his study of God’s Word, though obviously he and I do not agree with everything in them. (“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” 1 Thessalonians 5:21.)…..Jack Howell: etch the last sentence in your memory. The ones outlined in Bold face are some of the ones I have, or have used in the past among several others. Contrast the scholarship, and solid doctrinal teachings of the following commentaries with Finis Dake, who claimed (according to pamphlets from the publisher included with some editions of Bible) to have need given to Dake in supernatural means. Dake is full of heresy, illogic aberrant teachings. ” Dake has a 14 dispensation scheme with lengthy descriptions of a pre-Adamite world ruled by Lucifer. Creation is known as "re-creation" and is explained by a rather lengthy gap theory (see notes on Genesis chapter 1, and the chart at the rear of the Dake), including "Lucifer's flood." While this study Bible is Arminian to the extreme, and is constantly harping on believers losing their salvation, probably the most extreme heresy concerns the nature and person of God Himself. On page 280 of the New Testament, he has a lengthy discussion of the Trinity.”
David Cloud explains: “I would recommend these sets as a good starting place for building a Bible study library, and I am convinced of the importance of this. As noted in the first article of this series, I was extremely diligent in the study of the Bible from the day I was first saved in the summer of 1973. I probably averaged five to eight hours a day studying the Bible the first ten or twelve years. I spent at least an hour a day just reading the Bible, and when searching out a topic I went directly to the Scriptures before consulting any other sources; but I also found tremendous help through various commentaries. At one point I determined to read and study the Bible alone and to forgo consulting any commentaries or other extra-biblical sources. I did this religiously and prayerfully for a few weeks, and I can testify that the Lord made it plain to me that I needed help from men and that He was not going to give me everything by direct enlightenment. If I were shut up on a remote island with only the Bible, I am sure the Lord would give me everything I needed directly through His Word, but that is not His normal way of operation. He has given ministry-gifted men to the churches and He uses them to edify the saints (Ephesians 4:11-14; 3 Tim. 2:2). I praise the Lord for the priceless gift that some of the excellent teaching of past and present generations has been captured in print so I can possess it and consult it whenever I please. Such material is absolutely priceless.
While I am familiar with a wide range of the commentary sets available, the following are the ones that I have found most helpful for my Christian life and ministry and are the ones I recommend to my preacher friends.”
Boldface are ones I, too have in my library or have used:
EXPOSITION OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS by Matthew Henry (1662-1714). This set of early 18th-century commentaries (first published in part in 1708-10) remains one of the most helpful in print, in my estimation. In many areas we disagree with old Henry's position, but rarely do we regret having consulted him. Henry, a noncomformist Presbyterian pastor, was a master of biblical languages and a diligent Bible student who ransacked the old commentary material of his day to pass the meat along to us. He had a lovely gift for organizing and expressing his thoughts. He died before completing the full commentary, having finished his work only through the book of Acts. The New Testament commentary from Romans to Revelation was completed by 14 contemporary preachers of that day, all dissenters from the Church of England. (Do not settle for an abridged edition of the full set.) There is now an NIV edition of the Matthew Henry Commentary, and it is possible that the publishers will allow the KJV edition to go out of print at some point. We agree with Baptist pastor Charles Spurgeon's assessment of Matthew Henry: "You will find him to be glittering with metaphors, rich in analogies, overflowing with illustrations, superabundant in reflections. Every minister ought to read Matthew Henry entirely and carefully through once at least. You will acquire a vast store of sermons if you read with your note-book close at hand; and as for thoughts, they will swarm around you like twittering swallows around an old gable towards the close of autumn." He notes that George Whitefield read Matthew Henry through four times during his life. All of this reminds us that men of God used to study the Bible much more than do now. I am convinced that if the average independent Baptist preacher were assigned the task of reading through the entire set of Matthew Henry, he would protest that he needed at least 10 years to complete the assignment.
Hendrickson Publishers has come out with an excellent one-volume edition of the Matthew Henry Commentary. It contains the entire text of the original multi-volume set, including chapter summaries and outlines. It omits the KJV text to conserve space, and it incorporates some helpful revisions: Roman numerals are changed to Arabic ones, Greek and Hebrew words are transliterated. The type style is smaller than that used in the multi-volume editions, but it is clear and legible. Hendrickson Publishers, P.O. Box 3473, Peabody, MA 01961-3473. (508) 532-6546 (voice). (508) 531-8146 (fax).
One or two of the Bible software packages include the unabridged Matthew Henry Commentary. One of these is the Biblesoft Reference Library Plus, which includes the entire Matthew Henry, Nave’s Topical, Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, Nelson’s Bible Dictionary, Strong’s, Thayer’s, and Vine’s. Logos also has the complete Matthew Henry available for its Bible search program. Most of the Bible software packages provide an abridged edition of Matthew Henry, though, which is called the Matthew Henry Concise. It is TOO concise for my taste.
The unabridged Matthew Henry is available on the web at http://www.khouse.org/blueletter/.
HANDFULS ON PURPOSE by James Smith and Robert Lee (1886-1978). This five-volume set contains more than 2,000 expository outlines covering the whole Bible. I have not found many outline sets to be helpful, but these are unusually practical and useful. Robert G. Lee, a Baptist pastor and three-term president of the Southern Baptist Convention, was a master of alliterative sermons.
LIFE AND WORKS OF OUR LORD by C.H. Spurgeon (1834-1892). This three-volume set contains 183 sermons on the life of Christ by the inimitable Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Baptist pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London, England. (a favorite!)
SPURGEON’S EXPOSITORY ENCYCLOPEDIA by C.H. Spurgeon. This is the only collection of Spurgeon’s sermons classified by topic and alphabetically arranged. The 750 sermons are comprehensively indexed. There are also a number of other sets of Spurgeon’s sermons with indexes. (great selection written by a discerning precious expositor)
BARNE’S NOTES ON THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT by Albert Barnes (1798-1870), Frederic C. Cook (1810-1889), and James Murphy. There are 14 volumes in this invaluable set of commentaries. Barnes was a Presbyterian preacher and Bible expositor. He was brought to trial in 1835 for his rejection of the unscriptural doctrine of limited atonement. He advocated total abstinence of alcoholic beverages, was a soul winner, and promoted Sunday Schools.
IRONSIDE COMMENTARIES by Henry A. Ironside (1878-1951). These commentaries are devotional, practical, and Christ centered. As a young man Ironside worked with the Salvation Army in his early Christian years, and he earnestly sought the “entire sanctification” experience promoted by the Army and the Methodists of that day. It was the turn of the century, and a “holiness” fervor was sweeping across North America. The problem was that it was a false view of holiness which promised various degrees of sinless perfection. From this fervor the Pentecostal movement arose in the early part of the 20th century. Ironside became so discouraged by his failure to achieve an experience of sinlessness that he ended up in a hospital with an emotional and physical breakdown. There God began to teach him the truth of biblical justification and sanctification through some literature that he found, and he was led out of the confusion and doctrinal error of the holiness movement. He joined the Plymouth Brethren and conducted a long and very fruitful ministry as a pastor and Bible teacher. His experiences were recorded in the book Holiness: The False and the True, which is still printed by Loizeaux Publishers and which is also posted at the Way of Life web site under the Charismatic section of the End Times Apostasy Online Database. I have found Ironside to be especially helpful in the Old Testament prophets. Like the previously mentioned J. Vernon McGee, Ironside held a literal pre-millennial, pre-tribulational approach to Bible prophecy in contrast to most of the well known commentators. It is not easy to find good commentaries on the prophetic portions of Scripture. The Ironside commentary series include five volumes on the O.T. prophets. There are individual volumes on Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel; and the Minor Prophets are covered in one volume. The Ironside Commentaries are published by Loizeaux, P.O. Box 277, Neptune, NJ 07754-0277. (800) 526-2796 (orders), (908) 774-0641 (fax).
WILLMINGTON’S GUIDE TO THE BIBLE by H.L. Willmington. This volume contains the heart of the Bible school course developed years ago by Willmington for Jerry Falwell’s correspondence Bible school. The last we knew, Willmington was still at Liberty University. Obviously we do not recommend Falwell’s school, and it is sad to see men continue to be aligned with that type of compromise (hosting a Promise Keepers conference, promoting Billy Graham and his ecumenical evangelism, promoting the most radical charismatic ministries such as The Rock Church in Virginia Beach, etc.) who should know better. Be that as it will, Willmington’s Guide to the Bible is very helpful. It is divided into two major sections: A chapter by chapter commentary on or survey of the entire Bible, and a section on Bible doctrine. The doctrinal studies are thorough and practical. Willmington’s studies on Genesis are particularly excellent. Willmington has published separate volumes entitled New Testament Survey and Old Testament Survey, but in our estimation, the latter are not as helpful as his original Guide to the Bible.
AN INTERPRETATION OF THE ENGLISH BIBLE by B.H. Carroll. This 13-volume set of commentaries on the entire Bible by the famous Baptist preacher Benajah Harvey Carroll (1843-1914) was edited and published by J.B. Carnfill between 1913-16. Carnfield, who was associated with Carroll for many years and who taught Bible for more than 30 years at the seminary level, testified that the Carroll was "one of the greatest Bible scholars and exegetes living in the world today." Carnfield wrote that in the General Introduction to the commentary on Genesis in 1913, the year before Carroll died. The Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary says Carroll "was a powerful preacher, keen debater, ready writer, widely-read historian." Carroll pastored the First Baptist Church of Waco, Texas, from 1871 to 1899. In 1894 he became the principal of the Bible department at Baylor University and was professor of English Bible there from 1901 to 1910. He was influential in creating the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 1910 and was president of Southwestern from its inception until his death in 1914. He published 33 books, including a volume on Baptist Doctrine, and many influential pamphlets on such topics as "Communion from a Bible Standpoint" and "The Modern Social Dance." Calvary Publications in Fort Worth, Texas (P.O. Box 181212, Ft. Worth, TX 76118, 817-281-4720), still carries 200 of Carroll’s sermons in booklet form. An Interpretation of the English Bible is long out of print and is rare. It is not a verse-by-verse commentary, but it is packed with helpful thoughts for preachers and teachers. It is an excellent set for a preacher to use in conjunction with his through-the-Bible reading one year.
EXPLORE THE BOOK by J. Sidlow Baxter. An unusually thorough Bible survey course. Originally this was a six-volume work. In 1960 a one-volume condensation was published by Zondervan (1415 Lake Dr. SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49506). (800) 727-3480 (voice), (616) 698-6900), (616) 698-3255 (fax).
COMMENTARY ON THE HOLY BIBLE by Matthew Poole. This three-volume set of commentaries is not as extensive as Matthew Henry, but the tone and approach is similar. It is a helpful, concise commentary on the entire Bible. Poole commentary ws originally published in 1685, not long after the completion of the King James Bible. He ransacked the commentary material of his day, incorporating the best of it into his work. A lot of thought is packed into the concise language of this commentary.
EXPOSITION OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS by John Gill (1697-1771). Gill was a renowned British biblical scholar and Baptist pastor. For over 50 years he pastored the Particular Baptist Church of Horselydown, Southwark, London, the church which later moved its location and became known as the Metropolitan Baptist Tabernacle of Charles Haddon Spurgeon fame. His knowledge of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew was equal to that of the greatest scholars of his day, and he diligently searched out and studied ancient materials relating to the Bible. The Baptist Encyclopedia notes that “no man in the eighteenth century was as well versed in the literature and customs of the ancient Jews as John Gill.” Spurgeon ranked Gill fifth among all commentators of the whole Bible and stated, “He is always worth consulting. … for good, sound, massive, sober sense in commenting, who can excel Gill?” We personally overlook Gill’s complete capitulation to TULIP Calvinism and glean from the riches of knowledge he passed on via his commentaries. The set of Gill’s Commentaries is available from The Baptist Standard Bearer, Number One Iron Oaks Dr., Paris, AR 72855. (501) 963-3831 (voice), (501) 963-8083 (fax), Baptist@worldnet.att.net (e-mail), http://www.standardbearer.com/ (web page). The full set of Gill Commentaries has been made available for IBM and MAC computer users by the diligent efforts of Larry Pierce, author of the Online Bible, and it is available in the Online Bible for Windows CD-ROM. The new 7.01 version fully supports Windows 95, with right-click shortcuts throughout. Order from (800) 778-3390.
JAMIESON-FAUSSET-BROWN COMPLETE COMMENTARY by Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset, and David Brown. This three volume set is frequently critical to the Received Text and the King James Bible, as many of the commentaries are, but it contains much practical thought on the Bible text and is worth owning. Spurgeon said: “We consult it continually, and with growing interest. It contains so great a variety of information that if a man had no other exposition he would find himself at no great loss if he possessed this and used it diligently.” Eerdmans, 255 Jefferson Ave. SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49503. (800) 633-9326.
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Re: Dake Heirs Are As Selectively Blind & Intellectually Bankrupt as Rt. Rev FOWLER, Inc -- tamarisk, 07:23:23 01/17/03 Fri
Monsignor. Long time, no see. Got a cookie for me??
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Dake Heirs Are As Selectively Blind & Intellectually Bankrupt as Rt. Rev FOWLER, Inc -- ekklesia, 20:19:28 01/16/03 Thu
"Was looking in the "religion" section of my local bookstore the other day. They had a few copies of Dake's bible. At $67.95 a copy, someone is getting rich off of its printing."
YEP! Depends on if you want to show it off, or drink it in. Here are some specific examples of what we mean. Notice a whole different non-profit philosophy from David Cloud-types than the PFAKE Dakites who are OF THE WORLD and lead by the Prince of Air. Notice too the rank commercialism of all the PFAKE & Dakes who splash ads and blurbs for their heretic god, Dake hawking his books all over their web sites? They have errected whole talk boards to their venerated god, Finis McDake. Beeeg difference.
DISCOUNT BIBLE VERSION ISSUE LIBRARY
[Distributed by Way of Life Literature’s Fundamental Baptist Information Service. Copyright by David W. Cloud. These articles cannot be stored on BBS or Internet sites and cannot be sold or placed by themselves or with other material in any electronic format for sale, but may be distributed for free by e-mail or by print. They must be left intact and nothing removed or changed, including these informational headers. This is a listing for Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians. Our goal is not devotional but is TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ASSIST PREACHERS IN THE PROTECTION OF THE CHURCHES IN THIS APOSTATE HOUR. If you desire to receive this type of material on a regular basis, e-mail us, give us your name, address, and the name of the church you are a member of, and request to be placed on the list. Please note that this is not a free service. We take up a quarterly offering to fund this ministry, and each subscriber is expected to participate. To unsubscribe or to submit a change of address, send your name and the request to fbns@wayoflife.org. This is not an automated list. Changes in the database often require two to four days to activate. Some of these articles are from O Timothy magazine. David W. Cloud, Editor. O Timothy is a monthly magazine in its 17th year of publication. Subscription is $20/yr. Way of Life publishes many helpful books. The catalog is located at the web site -- http://www.wayoflife.org.]
Updated June 27, 2000 (first published April 30, 2000) (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061-0368, fbns@wayoflife.org) -- The battle for the King James Bible and its Received Text is heating up to fever pitch, and it is crucial that preachers know where they stand and why. The following important books offer a ready-made library on this topic and will make profitable additions to the library of any preacher or teacher. They also make valuable gifts. Because of my writings I have received a deluge of questions through the years about the Bible version issue. It is a blessing to be able to tell our friends that most of the commonly asked questions on this topic are answered in the following books. Dr. Waite’s Defending the King James Bible and Jack Moormon’s Forever Settled are used as textbooks at several schools. My book Myths about the King James Bible was published in 1999 and has been well received. A pastor recently wrote and said of this book: "It is Dynamite! You have done a superb job and I have already cited you extensively in my doctoral project. I have read upwards to 75 books on this subject and yours has to be one of the best, if not the best from a fundamental Baptist perspective."
The books can be ordered as a package or individually. You save 15% by purchasing the package.
DEFENDING THE KING JAMES BIBLE by Donald A. Waite. Dr. Waite is a Baptist scholar who has written in the defense of the Received Text and the King James Bible since 1971. Dr. Waite has 118 semester hours (1,888 class hours) of training in the biblical and other foreign languages, plus countless hours of teaching and personal research in the use of these languages. He obtained a B.A. in classical Greek and Latin from the University of Michigan in 1948; a Th.M. with high honors in New Testament Greek Literature and Exegesis from Dallas Theological Seminary in 1952; an M.A. in Speech from Southern Methodist University in 1953; a Th.D. with honors in Bible Exposition from Dallas Seminary in 1955; and a Ph.D. in Speech from Purdue University in 1961. He holds both New Jersey and Pennsylvania teacher certificates in Greek and Language Arts, and has taught Greek, Hebrew, Bible, Speech, and English for over thirty-five years in nine schools. Some (not to say, most!) defenders of the modern versions pretend that today’s King James defenders are intellectual pygmies who merely parrot things they have received from someone else. While there are ignorant people on all sides of the Bible version debate, the view that refuses to recognize the scholarship in defense of the KJV is slanderous. Dr. Waite, for example, has produced a number of exacting studies in the field of Bible versions. I can understand how someone might disagree with the King James defender’s conclusions, but to gloss over or ignore entirely the diligent research behind the positions of men such as this and to pretend that they could not possibly be true scholars is a farce. To find out for himself the exact number and nature of changes that have been made in the critical Greek text, for example, Dr. Waite went through the Westcott-Hort text and compared it with the Received Text. He counted every single word difference, and weighed its significance. When Dr. Waite says there are 9,970 Greek words added, subtracted, or changed from the Received Text in the Westcott-Hort text, he is not merely parroting what he read somewhere. He is citing his own diligent and scholarly research. He has also done this with at least three of the modern English versions (the NASV, NIV, and the NKJV), comparing them word for word with the King James Bible and the Received Text, noting the number and significance of the differences. He has also published the results of these studies. Dr. Waite has written in defense of the King James Bible since 1971, and in our estimation his 1992 book Defending the King James Bible is a masterpiece. In this book, Dr. Waite presents a four-fold superiority of the King James Bible: It is superior in its Greek and Hebrew texts, superior in its translators, superior in its translation technique, and superior in its theology. 352 pages, 5X8, hard bound. $12.00
EXAMINING JAMES WHITE’S "THE KING JAMES ONLY CONTROVERSY" by David W. Cloud [ISBN 1-58318-060-5] This is an extensive and careful examination of James White’s book "Examining the King James Only Controversy." I did not read in White’s book long before I realized that it is misnamed. It should be titled The Ruckman-Riplinger Controversy, because White paints the entire movement in defense of the King James Bible with the brush of these two individuals. White’s book appears, at first glance, to be an unemotional, objective, scholarly approach to the topic of Bible texts and versions. In reality, it is a vicious slander upon those who are defenders of the King James Bible and the Received Text underlying the KJV and other great Reformation Bibles. He implies throughout that every KJV defender is either a raving lunatic or an ignorant extremist. He ignores or passes over slightly, even flippantly, the great issues of the KJV defense, focusing, instead, upon the most indefensible representations. 115 pages, 5X8, perfect bound. $4.95
FOREVER SETTLED by Jack Moorman. This contains an extensive refutation of the modern Bible versions and defense of the King James Bible and its Received Text, and is an excellent text book on this subject. Jack Moorman was a missionary to South Africa for 18 years, during which he started five churches and a Bible college. In 1988 the Moormans moved to England to pastor and do missionary work. Since 1993, he has preached in London and carried on an evangelistic tract ministry to more than fifty market areas across that vast city. The material in Forever Settled was first used as a course for Gethsemane Bible College in Johannesburg. In a letter to me dated February 14, 1994, Pastor Moorman testified: "As with most who left Bible colleges in the 1960’s for the mission field (Moorman is a graduate of Tennessee Temple Bible College), I knew nothing of the text and translation issue. In [1969 or 1970] I became interested, and from the considerable libraries in Johannesburg, began to build up a file of textual material. This, in addition to separate volumes, is contained in 67 ring binders and has provided a good pool to work from. Today, as then, there is little formal training available in this area for those of our conviction and as most of the first-hand research is done by our opponents, it has been a case of getting as much as we can on our own and ‘out of the eater came forth meat.’" 300 pages, 5X8, hard bound. $20.00
FUNDAMENTALIST MIS-INFORMATION ON BIBLE VERSIONS by D.A. Waite. This is Dr. Waite’s newest book, published in February 2000. It is a refutation of the book From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man, recommended by Bob Jones University in July 1999. It deals with 118 issues involving misinformation disseminated through this book on the topic of Bible texts and translations. Some teachers at Bob Jones, Central Seminary, and elsewhere deny that the Received Greek New Testament underlying the King James Bible and all of the other Reformation Bibles for the last 500 years is the preserved Word of God. Instead, they have adopted modern textual criticism and therefore believe the King James Bible is corrupted in hundreds of passages. Dr. Waite refutes these serious errors that are growing among scholarly fundamentalists. 135 pages, 5X8, perfect bound. $7.00
THE KING JAMES VERSION DEFENDED by Edward F. Hills. Dr. Hills (1912-1981) was a professionally trained textual scholar as well as a godly Christian. He was a distinguished Latin and Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Yale University. He also earned the Th.B. degree from Westminster Theological Seminary and the Th.M. degree from Columbia Theological Seminary. After doing doctoral work at the University of Chicago in New Testament textual criticism, he completed his program at Harvard, earning the Th.D. in this field. Though largely ignored by professional textual critics and translators, Hills has encouraged thousands of pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and Bible teachers by his defense of the Received Text and his exposure of the unbelief of modern textual criticism. In 1956, he published the first edition of The King James Version Defended: A Christian View of the New Testament Manuscripts. It was enlarged through the years. Key chapters include "A Short History of Unbelief," "A Christian View of the Biblical Text," "The Facts of New Testament Textual Criticism," "Dean Burgon and the Traditional New Testament Text," and "The Textus Receptus and the King James Version." Hills devastated the Westcott-Hort textual theories and exposed the rationalistic foundation of the entire modern version superstructure. Unlike most modern textual scholars, Dr. Hills approached his topic with humility and with confidence in God’s promise to preserve the Scriptures. Most of the questions which are raised today in the Bible version debate were already answered by Dr. Hills 50 years ago. 280 pages, 5X8, hard bound. $14.95
MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS--THE DARK SECRET by Jack Moorman. In my estimation, this 48-page booklet contains the best concise presentation in print today refuting the modern versions and defending the King James Bible. Using the New International Version, Pastor Moorman notes the serious omissions in the modern versions, the attack upon the Deity of Jesus Christ, and many other doctrinal corruptions. Some defenders of the modern versions, such as James White, have denied that the modern Bibles weaken the doctrine of Christ’s deity, but they are dead wrong. In the 19th century, the Unitarians readily observed that they could support their doctrinal errors much more easily from the critical Greek text than the Received Text. The Unitarians in the first half of the 19th century were among the first to call for the removal of the word "God" in 1 Timothy 3:16 and to call for the obliteration of 1 John 5:7 from the Bible. The Unitarians could see what James White and other defenders of the modern versions today claim they cannot see, that the critical Greek text is more in conformity with heretical theology. (I have documented this in the book Myths about the King James Bible, available from Way of Life Literature.) In Modern Bible Versions--the Dark Secret, Pastor Moorman also masterly refutes the Westcott-Hort theory of textual criticism, gives much helpful information about the history of the Bible text, and presents an outline of the all-too-neglected doctrine of Bible preservation. Pastor Moorman has a gift of making the complicated subject of Bible texts and versions understandable to the average Christian. 48 pages, 5X8, saddle stitched. $1.50
MYTHS ABOUT THE MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS by David W. Cloud [ISBN 1-58318-059-1] This book deals with eight popular myths surrounding the modern Bible version issue. Myth One, Erasmus was a humanist. Myth Two, the Reformation editors lacked sufficient manuscript evidence. Myth Three, differences between texts and versions affect no doctrine. Myth Four, inspiration was infallible but preservation is fallible. Myth Five, the scholars do not support the Received Text. Myth Six, modern texts and versions are based upon Bible-believing scholarship. Myth Seven, Evangelical scholarship can be trusted. Myth Eight, dynamic equivalency is a faithful method for translating the Scriptures. The book answers questions such as the following: Why are the modern Bible versions so different from the KJV? Is it true that the differences between the versions do not affect doctrine? What is the Received Text? What is the Westcott-Hort Text? Is it still influential? Who are the scholars who defend the King James Bible? Is modern textual criticism based upon biblical principles? Who were the men who developed modern textual criticism? Who was John Burgon? Who are the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek Text? Why did the Unitarians love the Westcott-Hort Greek text? Why do most Evangelical scholars support the modern versions? Does Psalm 12:7 refer to the preservation of God’s Word? Why do textual critics ignore divine preservation? Why do so many seminaries reject the Received Text? Who is Bruce Metzger? Why does Billy Graham support the modern versions? What kinds of Bibles are being translated into foreign languages? Is the fight for the KJV necessary? Do I have to be a Greek scholar to understand this issue? Where was the preserved Word of God before 1611? 318 pages, 7X8, perfect bound. $19.95
TRUE OR FALSE? THE WESTCOTT-HORT TEXTUAL THEORY EXAMINED edited by David Otis Fuller. Dr. Fuller (1903-1988) obtained his Bachelor of Arts at Wheaton College, majoring in English literature. He obtained the Master of Divinity degree at Princeton Theological Seminary. Dallas Theological Seminary awarded Fuller the Doctor of Divinity degree. He pastored the Wealthy Street Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for 40 years (1934-74). While there, he founded the Grand Rapids Baptist Institute which later became the Grand Rapids Baptist Bible College. Fuller co-founded the Children’s Bible Hour radio program in 1942 and for 33 years was its chairman. For 52 years Fuller was on the board of the Association of Baptists for World Evangelism; he was a trustee of Wheaton College for 40 years. He was on the Council of 14 in the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches. A great love for the Bible was one of the distinguishing features of Fuller’s life and ministry. By the time he retired from 40 years as pastor of the Wealthy Street Baptist Church in 1974, he had read the Bible through 75 times. This was 14 years before he died. Fuller’s zeal against what he considered to be corrupt versions did not begin in the 1970s. He was already preaching against corrupt Bible versions in the early 1950s in sermons aimed against the Revised Standard Version. He first became concerned about the textual corruption underlying the modern versions through reading J.J. Ray’s God Wrote Only One Bible in the 1950s (it was first published in 1955). Prior to that Fuller had only been confronted with the typical line supporting the Westcott-Hort text. He corresponded with Ray for several months and began studying the issue for himself. He came across Philip Mauro’s Which Version, Benjamin Wilkinson’s Our Authorized Bible Vindicated, John Burgon’s Revision Revised, and Alfred Martin’s dissertation against the Westcott-Hort Text. (Martin was Vice President of Moody Bible Institute and defended the Received Text against the critical text in his doctoral dissertation to the faculty of Dallas Theological Seminary graduate school.) Martin corresponded with Fuller on the Bible text issue and allowed Fuller to publish a condensation of his dissertation in Which Bible? To say, as some have, that Dr. Fuller was brainwashed by any one certain man or book is to ignore the facts. He was a diligent researcher and whatever he accepted from Ray or Wilkinson or anyone else he accepted because he felt that it was affirmed by reputable sources. Fuller studied the issue from many angles, and he gained access to many of the nineteenth-century works in defense of the Received Text. Fuller was so industrious in his zeal to search out the facts on this issue that he sought out John Burgon’s unpublished works in the British Museum. "It was the privilege of this compiler, after struggling through several rounds of red tape, to see for myself three of the sixteen folio volumes Burgon had written in his own hand, a compilation of eighty-seven thousand quotations from the early Church Fathers. I make bold to say there is no other collection like this in existence" (Fuller, Counterfeit or Genuine?, Introduction, p. 11). We think it is no coincidence that Fuller published his first book in defense of the King James Bible at the beginning of the decade in which the Bible version issue heated up to fever pitch. Only three years after Fuller’s first book appeared, the New Testament portion of the New International Version came on the scene. Altogether Fuller edited three major volumes totaling 900 pages on the Bible version issue: Which Bible? (1970), True or False? (1973), and Counterfeit or Genuine? (1975). These volumes are evidence of Dr. Fuller’s diligent research on the subject of texts and versions. He located many books long out of print and made the contents available again to his generation. Fuller’s three volumes on this subject contain the full or summarized works of many older authorities on the textual issue, including John Burgon, Herman Hoskier, Philip Mauro, Joseph Philpot, Samuel Zwemer, and George Sayles Bishop, as well as the works of a number of contemporary writers. Dr. Fuller was influential in obtaining and publishing several post-graduate theses that defended the TR and the KJV in opposition to the modern versions. In my opinion, True or False? is the best of Fuller’s books on the Bible version issue. It includes a defense of the word "God" in 1 Timothy 3:16 by Terence Brown; an overview of the Bible version debate by Philip Mauro, a famous patent lawyer who defended the King James Bible in the first part of the 20th century; excerpts from the 1883 book The Revision Revised by John Burgon; and "the Contribution of John William Burgon to New Testament Textual Criticism" by Wilbur Pickering. 305 pages, 5X8, perfect bound. $11.95
THE THEOLOGICAL HERESIES OF WESTCOTT AND HORT by D.A. Waite. Defenders of the modern versions commonly state that Westcott and Hort, authors of the critical Greek New Testament of 1881 that became the foundation for all modern English versions, were theologically conservative and sound in the New Testament faith. Dr. Waite exposes this error. His book contains 125 direct quotations from five books written by Westcott and Hort, exposing their apostasy in ten areas of doctrine. Westcott and Hort did not so much deny the doctrines of the Word of God directly; they undermined these doctrines with clever doubt, with subtle questioning. Dr. Waite testifies: "Westcott’s attack on the bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is not by any means a direct clash of out-and-and denial, but rather an adroit, skillful, oblique undermining of the bodily resurrection of Christ by means of a re-definition of terms." Dr. Waite’s views on this matter are not based on a cursory look at Westcott and Hort’s theology. He has examined the writings of these men probably as exhaustively as anyone speaking on the subject today. As a background for his book Heresies of Westcott & Hort, Waite studied 1,291 pages of the writings of these men. Further, Dr. Waite brings to the table a vast knowledge about issues related to apostasy. He has researched Modernism, Neo-Orthodoxy, New Evangelicalism, and other erroneous movements for many decades. Based on his research Dr. Waite makes the following charges (among others): Westcott and Hort held a vague or erroneous position on inspiration, failed to affirm the personality of the Devil, calling him only a ‘power,’ denied or gave a false meaning to the literal, bodily resurrection of Christ, had a false and heretical view of the vicarious, substitutionary sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, and denied that Heaven is a place, speaking of it as a ‘state.’ Westcott further embraced the heresy of the universal ‘Fatherhood of God,’ denied that God had to be ‘propitiated,’ taught that men could be ‘divine’ in some way, espoused ‘evolution’ in various ways, had a heretical theory of man’s sinfulness and depravity, believing in man’s perfectibility in various ways, explained away some of Christ’s miracles, questioned the eternal pre-existence of Christ, and believed that the ‘redemptive efficacy of Christ’s work’ was to be found ‘in his whole life’ rather than in his death. 52 pages, 5X8, saddle stitched. $4.00
WHAT ABOUT RUCKMAN? by D.W. Cloud. A critique of the teaching of Dr. Peter S. Ruckman. The 3rd Edition (January 2000) contains many new articles: "Is the KJV Advanced Revelation," "The Divorced Pastor," "Salvation Is the Same in the Old and New Testaments," "Dr. Ruckman’s Slanderous Mouth," and "My Position on the King James Bible." 51 pages, 5X8, saddle stitched. $3.00
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Sola -- tamarisk, 07:19:25 01/17/03 Fri
I believe the great majority of Cloud's position and practice are sound. However, there are two areas which I differ from his opinions. One is his position on the 501 c 3 corporate church. I remember his comments after my good friend, Dr. Greg Dixon, was carried out of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple on a stretcher, on the 6pm news one night. The IBT as become stronger since they've become a house based church. It is still a strong voice for the unregistered church and sending out missionaries, world-wide.
Here is another item of note concerning Cloud. I received this in an email a few daze ago.
Disrupting -Erroneous and Opinionated Reporting--AGAIN
Folks
The statements made below are just ONE reason I no longer attend the Baptist churches of any kind.
WINE IN THE BIBLE AND TODAY. Friday Church News Notes, January 10, 2003
(David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368,
Port Huron, MI 48061-0368, fbns@wayoflife.org) - The following quotes by
Norman Geisler and Robert Stein are from the Focus in Missions, September
1986: "Many wine-drinking Christians today mistakenly assume that what the
New Testament meant by wine is identical to wine used today. This, however,
is false. In fact, today's wine is by biblical definition strong drink, and
hence is forbidden in the Bible. What the Bible frequently meant by wine
was basically purified water. ... Therefore, Christians ought not to drink
wine, beer or other alcoholic beverages for they are actually strong drink
and are forbidden in Scripture. Even ancient pagans did not drink what some
Christians drink today" (Geisler). "…to consume the amount of alcohol that
is in two martinis today, by drinking wine containing three parts water to
one part wine (the biblical ratio) a person would have to drink over
twenty-two glasses" (Stein).
[Editor] Where in the King James Bible, THE Bible of Fundamental Baptist Churches, can one find WINE described as "basically purified water". WHERE, in the Word of God, can one find WINE meaning a biblical ratio of three parts water to one part wine.
Any of you "legalists" out there that agree with Mr. Cloud, please show me chapter and verse "in context" and I will repent of writing this opposing letter.
Folks, it's a shame when one has an opinionated/dogmatic/ unscrupulous/deceitful/untruthful OPINION; and it HAS to be only an opinion, because a messenger of God KNOWS better; that one has to resort to FALSE TEACHINGS to "make his point". How can one then disassociate oneself from the other false teachers, and how can his readers discern the difference?
How can one that teaches falsehoods, oppose and expose others that teach falsehoods, but from a diverse perspective.
I believe David Cloud is a "brother in the Lord", but I cannot put much stock/certainty in his teachings because of his "Denominational Baptist Beliefs". This is not the first time I had to oppose his teachings. Please read my article "The Truth about Tithing - Giving in Grace; A New Testament Perspective (Part 1)" on my web site.
In that article David Cloud said about tithing; "Graceless believers in grace need to have the 'Law' put on them!"
I said in that article that, "If we do not obey from the 'heart', but by 'law', we are still lost in our sins. Does Cloud want to put 'grace givers' back under the Law so as to condemn us to hell?"
Don't preachers think we will search the scriptures to see if what they say (imply) is true?
THINK ABOUT THIS.
*****************************************************
CHRISTIANS & DRINKING WINE
Jesus turned water into "wine" NOT "grape juice" at the wedding feast.
The Greek word oinos (oy'-nos) is used for the word wine in John two. This is wine, a mild fermented drink.
The same word, oinos, is used for the word wine in the following verses.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
If we drink too much, or excessive wine we will get drunk.
1 Tim 3:2-3 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
A bishop, or pastor or overseer must not be known as a wine lover. No wine around the house "all the time" lest he suffer reproach. (1 Tim 3:7)
1 Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
A deacon, can have some wine, but not in excess.
If these verses speak of grape juice like the non-drinking advocates do, WHY is not a bishop, or pastor or overseer not to drink ANY GRAPE JUICE
1 Pet 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
You see, it is not DRINKING that is wrong, it is EXCESSIVE DRINKING. We are not forbidden to drink fermented beverages, we are forbidden to drink in excess.
1 Tim 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Wine, that is a fermented drink, can have medicinal benefits also.
Mark 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
As the grape juice ferments it emits gases which will stretch a new bottle made of new skin. Old skin hardens and does not stretch and will burst when new wine that is still fermenting is put into it.
Rom 14:2-3 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:21-23 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If you believe drinking fermented beverages is a sin, to you it is a sin, but if I can drink in moderation and not in excess and with a clear conscience, to me it is not a sin.
******************************************************
I was a drunk but haven't had a drink since Oct 21 1981, but I still do not have anything against a moderate drink every now and then, and the IMPORTANT matter is that NEITHER DOES CHRIST
Over doing ANYTHING-eating, drinking, dressing flagrantly, "over-use" of makeup, ect is a SIN.
Mark 7:18-23 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Moderation in drinking does not come from within. LUST-the act of OVER-ANYTHING comes from within.
The word "wine" in all these scriptures is the Greek word "oinos" (oy'-nos);.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
This tells us dot to drink IN EXCESS.
1 Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
This tells is the SAME THING. Not to drink MUCH (an excessive amount) wine.
1 Tim 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
This tells us the SAME THING. A LITTE wine.
Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
AGAIN-the SAME THING
1 Pet 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
AND AGAIN.
Is Paul saying that the Christian can sin a LITTLE by drinking a LITTLE WINE?
Making Enemies by Contending for the Faith ONCE Delivered to the Saints-as usual.
Andy
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I believe Andy is correct in this matter of drinking. You certainly do not sin by not drinking. You only sin by excess drinking. It is that "holy roller" mentality stating, "I don't drink and I don't chew, and I don't go with girls that do."
There are matters which are between you and G_d.
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Tamarisk -- Sola Scriptura, 17:54:15 01/17/03 Fri
>I believe Andy is correct in this matter of drinking.
>You certainly do not sin by not drinking. You only
>sin by excess drinking. It is that "holy roller"
>mentality stating, "I don't drink and I don't chew,
>and I don't go with girls that do."
>
>There are matters which are between you and G_d.
AGREED! It is an act of the Holy Spirit to place a conviction on the hearts of those He wishes to refrain from drink; strong or otherwise.
That is exactly one of several of the reasons My husband and I do not attend "baptist," SBC, or any of the various legalistic such services in our area. While I have my disagreements with some of Hal Lindsey's statements, he hits the SBC between their pious eyes with some mighty truth with regard to their legalisms. Stating were it left entirely to the SBC in Texas he would never have entertained the notion of Christianity. (Can't count how many dance contests I won as a young-in, LOL!)
It got so that it became the main focus of many a SBC sermon and false teaching. The wedding at Cana was the first miracle noted in the Word. Jesus "left the best wine for last" Any wine diluted with any amount of other liquid is not referenced in such a manner. Vintage alone would not be distinguishable! The pastors who's services we attended stated variously: that "it was not wine" "It was kool-aid"....they were making feeble attempts at humor....and so on.
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Re: "Ordained" - "Licensed" - "Bishops" - "Anointed" & "Called" of Jesus Christ? YOU Decide -- Sola Scriptura, 13:03:25 01/17/03 Fri
The slanderous mean-spirited, unholy and wholly false comments by "Bishop" Mike were not befitting a man supposedly living under the “anointed” guidance of anything Holy. They were lies that were intended to harm, inflame and destroy. The maker of these comments knew they were false and was making them because one man expressed his opinion that Dake publishing were profiting from their Bibles. Tamarisk is within his rights to express such views. You will note that the doc and his friends are more defensive about Dake than they are about Jesus.
Let’s look at the comments by poster called "Identifier" at another forum that were brought to our attention
Two Men of Lucifer's Recorded Dialog
You are actually assuming that Kevin reads!!!!
Is this comment full of Light? Would it be something a minister should say?
I doubt that our twisted janitor friend has read anything other than the "Turner Diaries" in years!!
“twisted” and doesn’t read? Based on what information does Mike personally have of Tamarisk? What’s the point here except to destroy and bring down and insult? These folks invented labels such as “twisted” and illiterate (implied) and wantonly applied it to an innocent man whom they hate in their hearts. They have also insulted his profession and are acting superior and HAUGHTY and Prideful – one of the Seven Dead lies!
Reading leads to an open mind. This is something that "Kevin the wannabe McVeigh" has thoroughly demonstrated he does not possess.
That is patently offensive and indicative of a warped mind that lacks the intellectual capacity to enter into the arena of intellectual discourse, so they pull the most inflammatory, Incendiary knives they can find in their drawer and try to attach them to those whom they hate in their hearts whether they have any basis in fact or not. Tamarisk had no connection to McVeigh what so ever. For him to even have to declare such to those making the claims is offensive! What is your folk’s evidence? You see how you folks work? You slander with no evidence and create an atmosphere where someone must defend a NEGATIVE. Disgusting, and disgusting for anyone to drive by and pitch their logs on the fire forcing the issue further. I thought some persons were more intelligent than that!
I have no doubt that he rarely, if ever, reads the Holy Bible.
Based on what information? Where do they get this information? Do they know this man? Or is it a matter of them having their god insulted and the two fine ‘bishops” getting so insulted that they are led by Lucifer to create LIES about others? Certainly they read at the site where Tamarisk writes as evidenced by the original source of this latest bit of trash. They would have seen literally HUNDREDS of passages Tamarisk has used in his discerning spirit and expositories.
How could he and still maintain his hatred for liberty, democracy and Christianity?
More examples of them forcing someone to defend a NEGATIVE! Tamarisk runs circles around these portly bishops in his vociferous defense of the American Constitution and defender of the liberties and rights that are eroding in this country by Constitutionally illiterate men like the fine bishops. Tamarisk has a record of loving, defending and actively defending TRUE liberty, democracy and Christianity. These men are liars and deceivers.
How could he read the Words of Jesus Christ and promote the killing of innocent children simply because they were in daycare in a federal building?
This is one of the lowest and darkest of the intentional slanderous and incendiary comments meant to intentionally harm and destroy a man. Tamarisk passes out baby booties and baby clothes in front of abortuaries. He councils those seeking abortions, He has been one of the most vociferous PRO-LIFE men I know and has WALKED THE WALK and actively campaigned against the killing of innocent babies in the womb. He has actively participated in all LEGAL means to change the minds hearts and laws to stop the slaughter of a million babies every year in this country.
There is the patently dishonest, malicious, and slanderous attempt by weak minds with even weaker character traits attempting to pull every knife out of the drawer with the sole intent of causing harm to an innocent man. There is no way to mollify this conclusion. To invoke Jesus’ precious name along with the comment made by “ordained” and “licensed” ministers that have set themselves up as “OFFICIAL” representatives of Christ but who’s sole intent is the out and out character assignation makes it even more unpalatable.
I keep watching for his mugshot on the news. A Bibliophile, Dr. Mike
Where is the Light and witness of Jesus in that comment, you apologists for these men and you linguine spined relativists?
Kevin is a sick joke.
Narrow minded trailer trash with internet groupies.
It would be simply laughable if he wasn't so perverse.
Now there may be the only shred of truth in the whole hatchet job done by two self appointed bishops, only I posit that they were talking about Mike Kear and Jack Howell!
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Proof It Doesn'T Take Much To Set Off Those Who Do Satan's Work! -- Sola Scriptura, 13:07:43 01/17/03 Fri
Is "$67.95 ??" Worth A WHOLESALE Slander and Character Assination Hatchet Job that....
........Falsely aligns and accuses a man ( who ONLY expressed his objection to the cost of a Bible in one sentence!) of ALL of the following:
• Having covert association with a diabolical National figure,
• being unable to read,
• “twisted”
• a "Kevin the wannabe McVeigh" - Com'mon. A McVeigh WANNABE???? Get real! No intellectual accountability for such a comment?
• “Rarely reads the Bible” (Notice the intellectual dis-connect that one time labels a man as unable to read, THEN states he does not read the Bible….HELL-0????
• Stating he: “maintain(s) his hatred for liberty, democracy and Christianity” Because he objects to a book's cost?
• “thoroughly demonstrated he does not possess an open mind” (sic) “thoroughly demonstrated?” Does the Word of God even TEACH us to have an “open mind?”….. Are we to embrace Hinduism? ….Let’s look at that further: are we to believe that two “bishops” masquerading as ones “ordained” to represent Christ Jesus and his teachings, that go on a malicious verbal rampage against a man because the man voiced a simple dissent about the price of one of their venerated book publishers? Did such a subjective personal opinion about cost REALLY invite a completely personal assault against an innocent man by pretenders to piety accusing the man of such off the wall things as illiteracy, hatred of everything good and decent, terrorist affiliations, - - - - - ALL without one iota of factual evidence to support this verbal assault - - - - is THAT the mark of a SUPERIOR “open mind”??? Is that the mark of men acting out their duties as representatives of a Holy Christ on earth?
• “I doubt that our twisted janitor friend has read anything other than the "Turner Diaries" in years!!” Remember, folks, let's not loose our focus - - - these are the remarks that were made in response to a one sentence subjective opinion one man expressed about the cost of a bible. He is a working man who is now having his reputation, reading ability, vocation, and character utterly trashed by two men who claim a superior “anointing” and "calling" directly from Christ – this is these men’s response just for one man expressing a one sentence opinion about the cost of a bible!
• “ promote(s) the killing of innocent children” one more time for those who did allow that to sink in:
“ promote(s) the killing of innocent children” An active pro-live advocate is having this thrown at him by men claiming to represent Christ, for expressing an opinion about the cost of a bible.
• I keep watching for his mugshot on the news. – For knocking Dake Publishers?
• ”Kevin is a sick joke.” For not agreeing with Dake? Examine your own conscious and YOU decide WHO IS A SICK JOKE….I mean, be real!
• “Narrow minded trailer trash with internet groupies.” Oh Lookie! LOL! Now all his friends are brought into the slanderous cauldron and are having their characters assassinated right along with Tamarisk because HE dissented from a practice of the Dake Publishing Co.'s practices. So much for “open minds” there Doc. “Trailer trash” does not retire in their 40’s! BTW, Doc - with that "lovely wife" of yours, eh-hem, speaking of subjective opinions.
• “ It would be simply laughable if he wasn't so perverse.” “Perverse”? For saying $67.95 is steep?
"Perverse?"
Are Mike Kear and Jack Howell REALLY "anointed" by a Holy Christ Jesus and official spokespersons of the Blood He Shed on the Cross?
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Sola -- tamarisk, 13:21:26 01/17/03 Fri
LOL!! I've read lotza books on doctrine, goobermint mind control cults, the Pentecostal heresy, etc., over the years. My only critera is, I look on the title page to see what bible version the author uses. I only read those books where the author uses the KJV. I've never seen one who has claimed to used the Dake bible.
Jer 15:1-4
1 Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth.
2 And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.
3 And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.
4 And I will cause them to be removed into all kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh the son of Hezekiah king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem.
(KJV)
Remember,
Heb 13:8
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.(KJV)
What of the institution called the Church in AmeriKa today? Even though there are preachers standing in pulpits this Sunday, just as Moses and Samuel stood before Him, He will cast them out of His sight. G_d's Holy Word has much to say concering the sins of omission and commission.
It's when you fail to save those being drawn to death and led to slaughter in execution chambers, called abortion mills. It's when you fail to visit those suffering in prison, not because they've done any crime, but because they are a political prisoner of an unrighteous goobermint.
We are at the 30-year anniversary of one of the most wicked "decisions" by an evil "Supreme Court." That is approving the state-sanctioned, "legalized" wholesale murder of babies in the womb of their mothers.
If the Fowler types would take off their dresses and stop being prissy preachers, standing out front to the abortion mills in OKC, the murder of 4,000 babies per day, would stop. It's going to take preachers standing in pulpits this Sunday, preaching against this wickedness. If those, so called "preachers" would take their feet out of their mouths and do what G_d has commanded them to do, then G_d has promised them this:
Hosea 4:1-10
1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.
5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the LORD.
(KJV)
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Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus -- ekklesia, 17:36:33 01/17/03 Fri
There is no venom in the heart of dissolute, debauched men against Christianity that is at all comparable to the poison of asps which lies in the heart of the self-righteous men proclaiming themselves “anointed” set apart “bishops” and “ordained” acting in an self-appointed official capacity as spokesmen of The Lord Christ Jesus
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Jesus said: "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. " -- Sola Scriptura, 22:50:02 01/15/03 Wed
....obviously an editing error on last post's title, sorry gang.
John 10
7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.
8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
(They) “do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[4] ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30I and the Father are one."
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Re: Jesus Said: "separate the people one from another ...." -- tamarisk, 07:30:08 01/16/03 Thu
The point Luther used here, in difference to the Romish Church(and various Pentecostal churches today), is that Salvation comes by Grace Alone, THROUGH Faith Alone, UNTO Repentance, IN the blessed name of Y'shua(The Lord Jesus).
Take out the ALONE and you see the great error in many churches today.
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Because Jesus Said: "IT IS FINISHED!!!!!" -- Sola Scriptura, 12:27:06 01/16/03 Thu
>
>Take out the ALONE and you see the great error in many
>churches today.
Take out the ALONE and it becomes an aberrant Jesus-PLUS Religion which comes in many assorted colors today.
• Jesus plus the law.
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."
What false gospel was Paul dealing with in Galatians? It was a perversion of the true gospel (Galatians 1:7, "pervert the gospel of Christ"). It was Jesus plus the law, Christ plus circumcision. Paul pointed out that following such a gospel would actually separate them from Christ. In other words, it would damn their soul (Galatians 1:6; 5:2, 4).
• Jesus plus works.
• Jesus plus traditions of man.
• Jesus plus tongues (glossolalia, “tongues”)
• Jesus plus Rome’s “sacraments.”
• Jesus plus “baptism.”
The Galatian heresy did not redefine the basic problem of mankind (which is sin, Romans 3:10-18). All this heresy taught was that the law must be kept. Faith was still to be placed upon Christ, but the law also must be kept to be found righteous before God. While millions teach this perverted system of works for their salvation, they are damning themselves the harder they try, because……..
IT IS FINISHED!
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Because Jesus Said: "IT IS FINISHED!!!!!" -- Sola Scriptura, 18:46:43 01/16/03 Thu
In the early 1500s, God raised up William Tyndale to translate the first English Bible that was taken directly from Hebrew and Greek and that was published via the printing press. William Tyndale was born in 1484.
William Tyndale Was Burned at the Stake by Catholic Authorities for His "Crime" of Translating the Bible.
The Translator was also born to a time of great change. When he was eight years old, Columbus discovered America. When Tyndale was fourteen, Vasco da Gama sailed around the Cape of Good Hope to India, and the great era of world exploration had begun. Just three years before Tyndale was born, the Spanish Inquisition was established, and by the time Tyndale was fifteen years old, 8,800 had been burned to death and 90,000 imprisoned under the pope’s Inquisitor General in Spain, Thomas de Torquemada. In 1492, when Tyndale was a young boy of eight, 500,000 Jews had been driven out of Spain and their wealth confiscated. As Tyndale learned his letters and grew to manhood, terrible persecutions were being poured out upon the Waldensian Christians in Bohemia and Moravia. Just twenty-four years before his birth, the 3,000 inhabitants of the valley of Loyse were destroyed by the Roman Catholic armies. When Tyndale was four, an army of 18,000 Catholics made war against the Waldensian Christians of Piedmont.
The popes of Tyndale’s day, (dori’s successors to her “first pope, Peter as she recently posted) were very powerful and very wicked. Let’s look at some of her wonderful inerrant popes:
Sixtus IV (1471-1484) established houses of prostitution in Rome.
Innocent VIII (1484-1492) had seven illegitimate children, whom he enriched with church treasures.
Alexander VI (1492-1503) lived with a Spanish lady and her daughter, and reveled in the grossest forms of debauchery. "The accounts of some of the indecent orgies that took place in the presence of the pope and [his daughter] Lucrezia are too bestial for repetition" (Kerr, pp. 228,29). He had five children, and his favorite son, Caesar Borgia, murdered his brother and his brother-in-law.
When I saw the transfixing photo of The Doors of the Wittenberg Church it was spell bindingly powerful. I fell still and just stared at it. What an image. Anyone not sensing emotion looking at it has not read Foxe. Nor have they taken their Laodicean warm fuzzies beyond their ice cream socials. And by the looks of some of the photos of the banana splits and nuts hollie-rolling in Moore, and Pocono – they and their wives definitely look to need exhibit some restraint at the local ice cream buffets. LOL!
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Tamarisk -- Dolly Llama, 09:25:27 01/14/03 Tue
What I get a chuckle out of is that when we won't read his trash, he tries to jam it down our throats like emailing you, and he goes on a rampage. LOL!
When we don't post for several days he gets all miffed. Too sweet.
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Re: Tamarisk & Dolly -- ekklesia, 09:28:55 01/14/03 Tue
Yep. Fowler, INC thinks everyone's lives revolves around him. Poor dark soul. There is no light in him.
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The Old Dog With a Bone Syndrome -- Sola Laughs!, 01:13:03 01/15/03 Wed
>Had to laugh about the current attempt for the Rt Rev
>Fowler to contact me through Yahoo mail. I didn't
>read that one either. Just deleted it with the other
>riff-raff. I already know his false doctrines and his
>further trying to espouse them in my email addy may be
>construed as harassment.
Yep. The old dog with his bone syndrome. It drives the dyspeptic Serpent Egg, INC ‘round the bend when we completely shun him and his nasty gnarled up bone. When no one wants to touch his spittle covered masticated bone, he then brings it to us and shakes it and growls at it in your face. Just like he did with his "testimony" which he insisted I was obligated to read. When I refused and said I was not interested; he splashed it on every board he knew I posted at insisting that I read it. When it was taken from the public domain and re-posted here, he became unhitched. FOFL What a hypocritical, classless clod. He reminds me of a lonely old dog with a slobbery bone. He comes undone when I won’t tell him my private e-mail accounts so he can harass me. Who needs that nonsense?! Sheesh! Ju-Ju-Jangler, jingle, jingle.....
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Re: The Old Dog With a Bone Syndrome -- Dolly Llama, 16:29:36 01/15/03 Wed
QUESTION FOLKS: WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?????
”A few days ago, I took the initiative and emailed Tamarisk, in the spirit of Christian love. ”- Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 3, 2003, 4:30 PM
From Jack's page:
•" Tamarisk Caught In Another Error - Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 2, 2003, 4:29 PM
• "More Ranting From Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 31, 2002, 9:16 PM
• "A New Rant From "Tamarisk" - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 30, 2002, 8:09 PM
• "Tamarisk The False Teacher, Rants Again - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 24, 2002, 5:55 AM
• "Another Depraved Rant - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 22, 2002, 12:09 PM
• "Another Rant From The Warped Thinking of Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 21, 2002, 4:06 AM
• "After Days of Silence, Tamarisk Speaks!
(SEE! TAMARISK! HE DOES WUV YOU! FOCL!!!!! Poor Pfake needs a life!) -
Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 20, 2002, 4:00 AM
(4:00AM, Yet. My, my. You had the PFOWLER all tossin & a turnin in his mammaz house's bedroom first thing in the morning! Lucky boy. He wakes and thinks about you first thing in the morning when he sees the sun rise every day. Such dedication.)
Can’t you just Fe-e-e-e-e-L the P-o-w-e-r of The Fowler’s “Christian” LOVE! Can anyone blame Tamarisk for not accepting Jackal's cut-one and paste it email? Bet it was chock full of more of that g-o-o-o-o-d " Christian love" don't choo? UM-UM. Kiss our love spot - Fowler! *Smootch!!!*
No wonder he gets bent out of shape when we won't all give him OUR emails so he has a way to harrass us. :-):-):-) Shake that bone Jangles....jinge, jingle, jingle,
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Re: The Rt Rev Fowler's Newest Fantasy -- tamarisk, 07:19:14 01/14/03 Tue
WRT: "Since it is God who gives ministers their sermons, the credit goes to God. Even in the sermons I personally prepare, I give the credit to God because it is He who gives the message to me to preach."
Is Dake a G_d? From what the Fowler posts, he believes that since he holds up the Dake Commentary as Gospel.
I have, under the Constitution of the United States of America, the ability to act as my own legal counsel, inside the bar. The Fowler types would rather contract, once again, with those calling themselves attorneys. Those who have sworn an oath to a foreign power.
It certainly is a shame their prideful spirit won't allow them to simply stop reading those(this) boards. However, those, particularly those calling themselves ministers, have a greater problem. They, through their incorporation and wholesale whoredom with the goobermint, have not prepared their flocks for the coming, world events. They will be the ones standing before the Lord for NOT feeding His sheep.
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Sola -- tamarisk, 08:16:37 01/13/03 Mon
In defense of the old, hoary headed pastor who was responsible for a large portion of my training.
I'm a frequent caller to the What's Right/What's Left radio program out of Cleveland, Ohio. That program is changing time and stations effective next Monday. It will now be heard on a 50,000 watt station over much of the eastern half of the country. Pastor Ernie Sanders does the Monday-Thursday, while Pastor Lenz does the Friday, Bible Questions and Answers program.
Talking to Pastor Ernie, off the air a week ago, he informed me the program owed about $52,000.00 for air time and other fees. I asked him what the problem was with donations. He stated the problem mostly because Roman Catholics have stopped supporting the program because of the Friday portion. There have been numerous callers with questions concerning the RCC. Pastor Lenz, Pastor Browning are NOT RCC apologists. Pastor Browning was saved out of the RCC and pulls no punches.
Pastor Ernie's contention is to just give RCC's the Gospel concerning the heresy of that institution. Of course, both avenues of attack are correct. You should be able to decry the system, as well as giving supporting scripture. None of those goodly men of G_d believe you can be "saved" the RC way.
Iff'in ya'll wants to know the typical Dorito type, RCC apologist, just listen to people like G. Gordon Liddy or Bill O'Reilly espouse there blind adherence to the RCC. I heard, just a few weeks ago, O'Reilly state, "Man's laws always superceed Natural Law(i.e. G_d's Laws).
This is the great error in believing one's salvation comes through a church. Or, in Dorito's case, her husband.(remember the, "I would be estranged from my husband if I left the RCC," comment)
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Tamarisk & the Saints of the True Living Triune God -- Sola Scriptura, 07:50:30 01/11/03 Sat
Proverbs 26
26 His malice may be concealed by deception,
but his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
27 If a man digs a pit, he will fall into it;
if a man rolls a stone, it will roll back on him.
28 A lying tongue hates those it hurts,
and a flattering mouth works ruin.
As a consequence of the FOWLER, Inc.’s malice towards others in defiance of Christ’s teachings; he has mounted a continued aggressive campaign of desperation attacks against others for exposing him and his dangerous aberrant teachings. In the process of his maladroit harangues against brothers and sisters in Christ, he is actually only providing additional evidence of his own deviant beliefs and rank heresy. And thus in doing so he is mounting conclusive evidence that demonstrates without reservation that PFAKE Bishop, Incorporated preaches another god.
Here is an example: “Here's another one for you, Sola: If God is physically everywhere at once, as your definition of omnipresent maintains, then why did He (God) have to come down and see for Himself if things in Sodom and Gormorrah were as bad as has been reported to Him?"
The fact that he has misrepresented my “definition” as he calls it, and that he can’t spell Gomorrah, aside, - - what his statement above really says is that he is denying one of the exclusive attributes of God! In other words in his insolent arrogance and over-weaning pride (as the Bible references him) to attack others, Rt. Rev. FOWLER has demonstrated his own belief in a false god.
In another sense the way he simply framed his “gotcha!” attempt; he only confirms that his 9-part god is not imbued with omniscience, and therefore his god is another god as we have been maintaining for some time.
…..”why did He (God) have to come down and see for Himself if things in Sodom and Gormorrah were as bad as has been reported to Him?"
“HAVE TO COME DOWN TO SEE FOR HIMSELF…..”???????? He has just denied God’s Omniscience!
The Omniscience the Jangler’s question denied, is an attribute of God alone. It is the quality of having ALL knowledge (Isaiah 40:14). Along with Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience that represent the nature and uniqueness of God concerning His relation to the creation. Were the Vain Jangler’s god Omniscient like the True God claims to be, he would NOT have asked such a foolish question.
27 If a man digs a pit, he will fall into it;
if a man rolls a stone, it will roll back on him.
Jackals, Inc. is a wolf among the flock preaching another god.
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Tamarisk & the Saints of the True Living Triune God -- the truth about Jack Howell is that he is a tare, 22:42:09 01/12/03 Sun
"… if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20
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Re: Welcome jack-of-demons howell -- ekklesia, 16:43:34 01/11/03 Sat
You speak presumpuously from your own wicked heart.....Your demons have you beguiled into believing you are a spokesperson for Christ with counterfeit meaningless titles. Everyone sees you are a man of darkness and malice without a gentle and kind bone in your body.
Please keep reading here jack-of-demons howell, there is a lot here that YOU NEED to hear.
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Re: Tamarisk "On-line Confession" -- tamarisk, 07:08:30 01/10/03 Fri
Received an interesting newsletter stating the New Catholic Cathedral in Los Angles, the largest in the USA, has occult architecture honoring godz from around the world.
Here is a link I found to their website. I need to look into it further but don't have time right now.
http://www.olacathedral.org/index.html
To say the least, it is different. One page I viewed gave reference some of the building design dates back to the Middle Ages or Dark Ages. It would be so like the RCC to "honor" that period when 100 million people were tortured and killed at the hands of the RCC inquisitors.
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Tamarisk, ACNR, Dolly, Sola, Bethany, Annie, Preludium, ekklesia & Saints! -- ekklesia, 23:23:36 01/08/03 Wed
Ezekiel 13:1-23
1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: `Hear the word of the LORD!
3 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!
4 Your prophets, O Israel, are like jackals among ruins.
5 You have not gone up to the breaks in the wall to repair it for the house of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the LORD.
6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. They say, "The LORD declares", when the LORD has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be fulfilled.
7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, "The LORD declares", though I have not spoken?
8 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign LORD.
9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.
10 "`Because they lead my people astray, saying, "Peace", when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,
11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth.
12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, "Where is the whitewash you covered it with?"
13 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury.
14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the LORD.
15 So I will spend my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, "The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it,
16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign LORD."'
17 "Now, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who prophesy out of their own imagination. Prophesy against them
18 and say, `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the women who sew magic charms on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their heads in order to ensnare people. Will you ensnare the lives of my people but preserve your own?
19 You have profaned me among my people for a few handfuls of barley and scraps of bread. By lying to my people, who listen to lies, you have killed those who should not have died and have spared those who should not live.
20 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds.
21 I will tear off your veils and save my people from your hands, and they will no longer fall prey to your power. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
22 Because you disheartened the righteous with your lies, when I had brought them no grief, and because you encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their lives, 23 therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will save my people from your hands. And then you will know that I am the LORD.'"
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Re: Tamarisk, ACNR, Dolly, Sola, Bethany, Annie, Preludium, ekklesia & Saints! -- Sola Scriptura, 23:47:30 01/08/03 Wed
"I gave proper credit to authors whom I quoted and in fact, responded to her false charges on her board, but she was removing my responses as fast as they were being posted so she could make false claims such as this. Fortunately, I do have most of those posts archived in Microsoft Word 97"
Then you won't mind producing proof of your giving credit to the rightful authors from July posts when you were first confronted. Put up or shut up.
"Tamarisk Will "Flip" Over This One!
Messianic Jews Are using the Dake's Annotated Reference Bible!"
(at) Shalach Ministries http://www.shalach.org/index.htm" Rev. Jack Howell
"Flip over" Get serious. Tamarisk answers to G-d.
They also quote Dave Hunt, who I financially have supported for 20 years and am in agreement with the majority of his writings. In FOWLER, Inc.'s haste he obviously did not read this from their site......
T H E T R I N I T Y
by Dave Hunt
Many Christians are at a loss to understand, much less to defend, the "Trinity" when that word is not even found in the Bible. To deal with that issue, we must begin with God, as the Bible itself does.
There are two general concepts of God: (1) pantheism/naturalism, that the universe itself is God; and (2) supernaturalism, that the Creator is distinct from His creation. Within these are two more opposing views: (1) polytheism, that there are many gods; and (2) monotheism, that there is only one true God.
Monotheism itself is divided into two rival beliefs: (1) that God is a single being; and (2) that God has always existed in three persons who are separate and distinct yet one. Obviously, Christians are the only ones who hold the latter view--and even some who call themselves Christians reject it. Yet it is the only logically and philosophically coherent view of God possible
Pantheism has the same fatal flaws as atheism. If everything is God, to be God has lost all meaning and so nothing is God. The problems with polytheism are equally obvious. There is no real God who is in charge, so the many gods fight wars and steal one another's wives. There's no basis for morals, truth or peace in heaven or earth. Polytheism's basic problem is: diversity without unity.
The belief that God is a single being is held by both Muslims and Jews, who insist that Allah and Jehovah are single entities. It is also held by pseudo-Christian cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons - - - and by various aberrant Christian groups who also deny the deity of Christ. Some Pentecostals claim that God is a single being and that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God's three "titles" or "offices." Here we have unity without diversity.
That God must have both unity, and diversity is clear. The Allah of Islam (like the Jehovah of Jehovah's Witnesses and Jews), for instance, is incomplete in himself, unable to experience love, fellowship and communion before creating beings with whom he could have these experiences.
The Bible says that "God is love." But the God of Islam and Judaism could not be love in and of himself--for whom could he love when he was alone before creation?
This belief that God is a single entity (Unitarianism) and not three persons existing eternally in one God (Trinitarianism) was first formulated in the early church around 220 A.D. by a Libyan theologian named Sabellius. He attempted to retain Biblical language concerning Father, Son and Holy Spirit without acknowledging the triune nature of God. Sabellius claimed that God existed as a single being, who manifested Himself in three activities, modes or aspects: as Father in the creation, as Son in redemption, and as Holy Spirit in prophecy and sanctification. This heresy, though condemned by the vast majority of Christians, survives to this day.
The Bible presents a God who did not need to create any beings to experience love, communion and fellowship. This God is complete in Himself, being three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, separate and distinct yet at the same time eternally One God. They loved and communed and fellowshipped with each other and took counsel together before the universe, angels or man were brought into existence. Isaiah "heard the voice of the LORD [in eternity past] saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" (Isaiah 6:8). Moses revealed the same counseling together of the Godhead: "And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness"; and again, "[L]et us go down and there confound their language" (Genesis 1:26; 1 1:7). Who is this "us" if God is a single entity? Why does God say, "the man is become as one of us"? (Genesis 3:22)
Moreover, if God is a single being, then why is the plural Hebrew noun Elohim (literally "Gods") used for God repeatedly? In fact, this plural noun is in the center of Israel's famous confession of the oneness of God! The Shema declares, "Hear, 0 Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" (Dt 6:4;Mk 12:29). In the Hebrew it reads, "Jehovah our Elohim (gods) is one [echad] Jehovah." The Hebrew word echad allows for a unity of more than one. For example, it is used in Genesis 2:24 where man and woman become one flesh; in Exodus 36:13 when the various parts "became one tabernacle"; in 2 Samuel 2:25 when many soldiers "became one troop"; and elsewhere.
Nor is the word Elohim the only way in which God's plurality is presented. For example, Ecclesiastes 12:1:"Remember now thy creator [lit. "creators"]"; and Isaiah 54:5: "For thy Maker is thine husband [lit."makers, husbands"]" Unitarianism has no explanation for this consistent presentation of God's plurality all through the Old Testament. Although the word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible, the concept is clearly there, providing the unity and diversity that makes possible the love, fellowship and communion within the Godhead. Truly the Trinitarian God is love--and He alone
Jesus said, "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand" (Jn 3:35). God's love is not just toward mankind but first of all among the three Persons of the Godhead. And three Persons they must be. Father, Son and Holy Spirit can't be mere offices, titles or modes in which God manifests Himself, for such cannot love, consult and fellowship together. Not only is the Son presented as a person, but so are the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Bible presents each as having His own personality: each wills, acts, loves, cares, can be grieved or become angry. "Offices" or "titles" don't do that! Unitarianism isn't Biblical--and it robs the Godhead of the necessary qualities of true Deity.
Godhead? Is that a Biblical term? Yes, indeed. It occurs three times in the King James New Testament in Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, and Colossians 2:9. In contrast to theos, which is used consistently throughout the New Testament for "God," three different but related Greek words occur in these verses (theios, theiotes, theotes) which the King James translators carefully designated by the special word, Godhead. That very term indicates a plurality of being. Paul wrote, "[I]n him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col 2.9). Did he simply mean that in Christ dwelt all the fullness of Himself? That would be like saying that in me dwells all the fullness of me. Well, of course it does--- so why say it, and what does it really mean? Nothing!
Does it simply mean that in Christ dwells all the fullness of Deity, as some non-KJV translations render it? That, too, would be redundant--or it would detract from the deity of Christ. For if Christ is intrinsically God, then what is the point of saying that "in Him dwells all the fullness of Deity"? Of course it does! But if Christ is the Son and there are two other persons in the Godhead, then it does mean something. It means that just as Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God, so, when the Son became man, He brought that fullness of the Godhead with Him into flesh.
In Romans 1:20 Paul argues that God's "eternal power and Godhead" are seen in the creation He made. God's eternal power--but His Godhead? Yes, as Dr. Wood pointed out years ago in The Secret of the Universe, the triune nature of God is stamped on His creation. The cosmos is divided into three: space, matter and time. Each of these is divided into three. Space, for instance, is composed of length, breadth and width, each separate and distinct in itself, yet the three are one. Length, breadth and width are not three spaces, but three dimensions comprising one space. Run enough lines lengthwise and you take in the whole. But so it is with the width and height. Each is separate and yet distinct, each is all of space--just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, yet each is God.
Time also is a trinity: past, present and future-- two invisible and one visible. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is the whole. Man himself is a triunity of spirit, soul and body, two of which are invisible, one visible. Many more details could be given of the Godhead's triunity reflected in the universe. It can hardly be coincidence.
The Hebrew word Elohim (Gods) occurs about 2,500 times in the Old Testament, while the singular form occurs only 250 times and most of those designate false gods. Genesis 1:1 reads, "In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth"; i.e., literally, "GODS created the heaven and the earth." Though a single noun is available, yet the plural form is consistently used for God. And in violation of grammatical rules, with few exceptions, singular verbs and pronouns are used with this plural noun. Why?
At the burning bush it was Elohim (Gods) who spoke to Moses. Yet Elohim did not say, "We are that we are," but "I AM THAT I AM" (Ex 3:14). One cannot escape the fact that all through the Bible God is presented as a plurality and yet as one, as having both diversity and unity. This is unknown among all the world's religions! To reject the Trinity is to reject the unique God of the Bible.
The New Testament presents three Persons who are distinct, yet each is recognized as God. At the same time we have repeatedly the clear statement that there is only one true God. Christ prays to the Father. Is He praying to Himself? "[T]he Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" (I John 4:14). Did He send Himself'? Worse yet, did one "office" pray to and send a "title"? Father, Son and Holy Spirit have distinct functions, yet each works only in conjunction with the others. Christ said, "[T]he words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself [on my own initiative]: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (Jn 14:10); "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter .... Even the Spirit of truth" (Jn 14:16-17). Throughout the New Testament Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separately honored and act as God, yet only in concert with one another.
The Old Testament also presents three Persons in the Godhead interacting. For example: "Hearken unto me, 0 Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens-from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me" (Isaiah 48:12-16). The One speaking through Isaiah refers to Himself as "the first and the last" and the Creator of all, so He must be God. But he speaks of two others in the same passage who must also be God: "the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Jesus presented a similar passage to the Pharisees (Mt 22:41-46) when He asked them who the Messiah was, and they said, "The Son of David." He then quoted Psalm 110:1: "The LORD said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." Then Jesus asked them, "If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" (Mt 22:45). The Pharisees were speechless. Unitarianism cannot explain these two "Lords."
It is a mystery how God can exist in three Persons yet be one God; but it is also a mystery how God could have no beginning and create everything out of nothing. We can't understand what a human soul or spirit is. Nor can we explain love or beauty or justice. It is beyond human capacity to comprehend the full nature of God's being. But neither can we understand what it means for us or anything else to exist-- nor can we comprehend what space is or what time is or matter is. For every door science opens, there are ten more unopened doors on the other side. The more we learn, the more rapidly the unknown expands before us like receding images in a hall of mirrors. The Jehovah's Witnesses and other Unitarians argue that because the Trinity can't be understood it can't be. But the fact that it is beyond human comprehension is no reason for rejecting what the Bible presents so consistently to us. God is telling us about Himself so that we may believe in and know Him. We dare not reject what He says or lower it to the level of our finite minds.
-Dave Hunt
Written primarily to respond to teachings of The United Pentecostal Church. Also see Global Peace and the Rise of Antichrist, Chapter 18
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Re: Tamarisk, ACNR, Dolly, Sola, Bethany, Annie, Preludium, ekklesia & Saints! -- Sola, 23:54:37 01/08/03 Wed
> "I gave proper credit to authors whom I quoted and
>in fact, responded to her false charges on her board,
>but she was removing my responses as fast as they were
>being posted so she could make false claims such as
>this. Fortunately, I do have most of those posts
>archived in Microsoft Word 97" - Jack Howell
BTW foolish one, I have never removed any of your posts, bunky. Ya got da wrong posse, pard'nar. Now let's see all those credits you have record of giving to the 50-some odd different cut & pastes that pre-dated July. PRODUCE O'Impotent One. We are waiting. We did this Lucy and the football routine in August and you whimped out. All blow and no go.
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More Mendacity From Moore -- Sola Scriptura, 09:05:14 01/08/03 Wed
Good old Rt. Rev. ~~~~8}, Inc:
"..... at no time did I ever claim "authorship" for any of Dake's writings. That is an outright lie and is to be expected from the members of that cyber-cult posting at the Gossip and Slander board who resort to such tactics when they have been refuted. - - -Rev. Jack Howell As always, carefully selecting and parsing his words as well as a former Commander in Cheat.
Here is only one of many specific quotes which tend to clearly discredit the mendacious “bishop”……….
"What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the same sense each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul, and spirit."
The question is; WHO would any reasonable reader that came upon that post which began with; "What we mean by….. and concluded with the signature as: “Rev. Jack Howell” naturally believe that post was authored by? Anyone who has even vaguely dealt with The Rt. Rev., Inc knows that this is his methodology which is conceived not by mere accident but it is cleverly calculated BY DESIGN.
The dirty little secret is; Rt. Rev. Serpent Egg, Inc. has ALWAYS tried to exclude credits attributing his hundreds of cut and pastes to their rightful aberrant authorship. This has only seen any change in his patterns since the time it became an issue of contention among those who called him on his slimy methods. But contrast his refusal to give proper credit for his stolen works, with the fact that he nearly always SIGNS HIS NAME at the end of his posts! Coincidence? He has recently also fancied attaching his photograph to the posts as well. Why, he chooses too this practice is another mystery. So when the post fails to state clearly (hundreds of times to similar posts): (Dake's Annotated Reference Bible, N.T. pg. 280, column 1) does anyone think it could have been an oversight?
The record shows: It was only when he was confronted by persons who recognized the passages Rt. Rev. Fowler was using as not originating with him and told him he was practicing deception and fraud that he on occasion gave the author credit. In the past he has had the mendacity to claim that “the original post was credited” and he therefore stated that he had fulfilled his obligation to the rightful author. Legality and copyright laws aside, this was also proven by using archives of his own posting record to be a total fraud. When asked to present a record to support his claims of awarding credits, he of course could not do so and willfully allowed the topic fade.
Again, the fact is when this particular quote first began appearing, and many others like it with words such as "What we mean by…..” those who are not familiar with Rt. Rev. FOWLER’s mendacity and congenital duplicity would naturally believe that the authorship of the writing is ALSO the person who signs their name to the post as “Rev. Jack Howell”
When the guileful Rt. Rev., Inc. cunningly says recently; ….."..... at no time did I ever claim "authorship" for any of Dake's writings.” We can agree with his cleverly crafted, parsed statement. No one is claiming Jackals said ”NOW HEAR THIS!!!!! I, Rt. Rev. FOWLER wrote this! I am the author”
Notice, though, he just craftily happens to omit all reference to copyright credits, while at the same time never forgets to sign HIS name to his posts. It is a famous Rt. Rev. Serpent Egg, Inc. strategy of “How can I fool ‘em today”
And so goes the deception, lies and games of a wicked man who claims to represent Jesus. When he is exposed, he re-coils like the gutter viper he is known to be and hissssssssses and spits and piles more coals on his head ……”That is an outright lie and is to be expected from the members of that cyber-cult posting at the Gossip and Slander board who resort to such tactics when they have been refuted. - - -Rev. Jack Howell”
Notice he didn’t forget the signature. ;>)
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Re: Jack Howell's Argumentum ad Hominem Attacks & Anthropomorphite God - His Lies Continue -- tamarisk, 07:57:26 01/08/03 Wed
And yet, the Rt Rev Fowler can't see the obvious Mormon influence there. Mormons preach "their" gospel because what is promised them in the afterlife. Be married, have a Temple Recommend by your stake "Bishop," wear your sacred, holy underwear and perform water baptisms for all those non-Mormons in the world. And, yes, you too, will have your own little eternity, as your own little god on your own little planet.
I noticed, last night, another strange teaching by Mags over on R2D2. Mags is caught up in the "experience" factor of "being a Christian."
Mags also does not believe there was anyone saved in the OT or there were OT "Saints." Well then, there was NO HOPE for those in the OT, and why did they ever place so much emphasis on The Holy One of Israel? Iffin ya'll mean by Testimony, then I understand. Even flaming New Agers, such as Lilith, have "experienced" things. Most of witch do not come from G_d. In testimony, the Glory goes to G_d, alone. By experience, you and others get the glory, and iffin He's "lucky," He'll get a little of the glory.
Last night, I taught in bible study out of 2 Samuel 23-24. I would ask Mags just what the reference in 23:2 to The Spirit of the Lord? In the next verse, "The G_d of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me," (and an aside for the Rt Rev as to the purpose of the institution of human government in Genesis 9 and the further assertion in Romans 13) "He that ruleth over men "MUST" be just, ruling in the fear of G_d."(emphasis mine)
So, who or whom does verse 4 refer to? Abba G_d, The G_d of Israel who gives the marching orders to, The Rock of Israel, Mechiach Y'shua who "spake" to David, or The Spirit of the LORD, who "spake BY me, and His word was in my tongue?"
Or, is it the just and righteous ruler, ruling in the fear and admonition of Almighty G_d? David knew his great sin for lusting after Bathsheba for an night of sex with a married woman. The Word of G_d came to Nathan, the prophet to expose to light, that which was done in darkness. David tried to cover up one sin with another by having Uriah, Bathsheba's husband killed in battle. The same, trying to cover one sin with another, goes on daily in goobermint and churches today.
David knew, all too well, the consequences for his sin, for in verse 5 and following, comes his confession and the covenant G_d made, and would not go back on, in spite of David's sin.
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Hack Jowells a Buddha? - Confucious say "He Can't Even Exegete !" -- U SIN U FOO, 01:50:01 01/08/03 Wed
Ray to go Charee. Rots of Ruck. U one smart cookie.
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Jack Howell's Argumentum ad Hominem Attacks & Anthropomorphite God -- Sola Scriptura, 09:09:27 01/07/03 Tue
Something for the Dakite heretics and apostate teachers of their Anthropomorphite God to consider:
IF YOUR GOD HAS A LITERAL PHYSICAL BODY; HOW CAN HE BE ALSO OMNI-PRESENT?
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Have a nice day. *
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