VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 123456 ]


[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 17:02:50 02/09/03 Sun
Author: Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi 2002
Subject: Just for Catholics - Q&A

Just for Catholics - Q&A

Are we co-redeemers?

Question I can assure you that we Catholics believe in His completed work and suffering at Calvary’s cross. However, as the Bride of Christ, His Body, our sufferings are so united with Christ's that we can offer them in union with His redemptive work for the salvation of souls (Colossians 1:24). The Lord Jesus Christ uses the suffering of his people to draw souls to salvation to be found only through Christ. That is what redemptive suffering is all about.

Answer There is great value in the Christian’s work and suffering in Christ. For one thing, as you said, the Lord Jesus brings souls into His kingdom, and builds them up in grace, through the painstaking work of His ministers and His people. Sadly, the idea of “redemptive suffering” as used in Catholic theology, is not limited to this sense. The Catholic Church teaches that the works and sufferings of believers are united with that of Christ to merit our redemption (see Catechism paragraphs 618, 1476, 1477). That idea is wrong.

We must make a very clear distinction between the finished work of Christ on the cross for our redemption, and His work in and through us for the edification of the church.

Christ redeemed His people, that is, paid the ransom for their liberation and forgiveness, by His death on the cross. He said, “I give my life as a ransom for many,” and believers say, “we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,” and He “hast redeemed us to God by thy blood,” and again, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” “In Christ we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins” (Colossians 1:14).

So redemption has been obtained, once for all, by the death of Christ on the cross. His preaching or His miracles did not achieve redemption. Neither is Christ now obtaining redemption by working in or through His people. To be sure, the Lord is intimately involved in the lives of His children, and being spiritually united with them, their afflictions are also His. Moreover, there is value in the Christian suffering - for mortification of sin, the strengthening of faith and character, and which the Lord would recompense in heaven. Yet nowhere does the Scripture teach that Christians participate with Christ in His sacrifice, suffering and death to achieve redemption. His blood has already obtained that.

So, briefly,

By His death, Christ has already obtained redemption
The purpose of the suffering of Christians is not redemptive.
This principle is illustrated by Colossians 1:24: “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church”

This verse is often misused by Catholics apologists as evidence that we must co-operate by our suffering with Christ to accomplish redemption. Let’s see if this is the case or not.

It is clear that there is a sense in which the afflictions of Christ for His church are incomplete. Christ still suffers for His church. How? He is so united with His people that the suffering of the members of His body are in a very real sense His own! Thus the sufferings of the apostle Paul for the sake of the church are the afflictions of Christ.

The apostle Paul was suffering for the sake and benefit of the Christians in Colosse. We must ask this important question: What was the purpose of his suffering? Was Paul’s suffering added to the merits of the death of Christ to achieve redemption, the forgiveness of sins? Or did Paul’s suffering benefit the Christians in Colosse in some other way? The answer is found in the context.

First, the apostle writes about the redemptive work of Christ (Colossian 1:19-23). He assures the believers in Colosse that reconciliation and peace with God were achieved “through the blood of His cross” and “in the body of His flesh through death.” Reconciliation was not achieved through the work and suffering of Christ's ministers. Neither was reconciliation brought about by the suffering of His mystical body, the church, but "in the body of His flesh," that is, by the sacrifice of His human physical body and the shedding of His blood. Paul does not instruct Christians to add something to the work of Christ to be reconciled with God. Rather, the apostle assures the believers that they are already at peace with Him on account of His blood.

After speaking about the sacrifice of Christ, the apostle Paul changes subject and speaks about his personal role (Colossians 1:23 – 2:5). He presents himself as a minister of the Gospel. His mission was to preach and teach to make known the good news of Christ to everyone. And to do so, the apostle Paul suffered much hardship of every sort. In this sense he was suffering for the sake of Christians for the purpose of teaching and edifying the church. The fanciful idea that he was contributing something to the redemptive work of Christ would not even cross his mind. The thought was anathema to him! “Was Paul crucified for you?” (1 Corinthians 1:13). No, of course not! Jesus was crucified for us, and what He achieved for us by His cross (reconciliation, peace with God and redemption) could not be attributed to Paul, or any other creature.

Believers are redeemed by the blood of Christ. The work and sufferings of believers produces much fruit for the glory of God, but not their redemption. Christ is the Redeemer. Christians are the redeemed, not co-redeemers!

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.