| Subject: Okay then... |
Author:
Marina
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Date Posted: 11:29:32 07/04/03 Fri
In reply to:
Lika
's message, "Re: SxK Plausibility" on 01:56:06 07/04/03 Fri
Okay, I think it's finally time for me to stop lurking here and address some things that I have observed over the past two months, as well as in this recent thread. This thread started out as a harmless conversation about characters that has somehow once again turned into a debate about who's totally wrong and gets to be none-too-subtly bashed and who has to be right about X. Good lord, have some of you forgotten what it means to be a fan?
The sex issue:
The thing people have to keep in mind when debating about whether or not Seishirou and Subaru had sex, and claiming they couldn't have because CLAMP didn't show it, is that X is a Japanese manga that runs in a Japanese magazine created for Japanese audiences. The target age for Asuka magazine is pretty much females of middle school age. THAT IS NOT TO SAY that people who are older or male don't read it. It is only to say that if you were to sit down an editor from Asuka and ask them who they expect is reading it and who it's targeted at, they will tell you "middle school girls." Thus they are going to run content that is tailored to said audience.
This same editor will tell you that the average female middle school student, while being rather fascinated with sensual and homosexual undertones and relationships between males, would nonetheless be made VERY uncomfortable by obvious m/m sex. Girls who would like to see m/m sex can go read a BL (boys' love) anthology if they choose to do so, but average readers of Asuka would shy away from such content. It's not because they're homophobic in the least. It is because of the views their culture provides for them. Thus it would not benefit CLAMP to have obvious m/m sex in X.
I think somewhere a mistaken impression has been made on some groups of fans about views on homosexuality in Japan. Perhaps it stemmed from Uranus and Neptune of Sailormoon, I'm not sure. Or perhaps the casual attitude that many characters in anime and manga present toward homosexuality. It would do ALL fans good to do a little reading up on Japanese views on homosexuality. There are numerous excellent sources online to check out.
Besides that, CLAMP has NEVER been in-your-face obvious about such things. Yes, we see Sorata and Arashi naked in a bed, and yes, you know they had sex. But the point of this is that the fact that they had sex is IMPORTANT. Arashi lost her "purity" and thus her powers. Being vague about such things would just confuse readers.
Sex between Seishirou and Subaru may be entirely speculative, yes. I personally say that being able to consider what could have happened is part of the fun, and makes the story more interesting. But to say that "If any characters in their series had sex, you'll know," is entirely untrue. That's the whole point of a lot of their stuff. You DON'T know. CLAMP leaves many, many, MANY things in their stories up to interpretation, which is part of what makes them so interesting and fan-friendly. Which leads me to another point:
Fanfiction and fandom:
I think some of the people on this board are entirely missing the point of fanfiction and fandom. Fanfiction is works of fiction created by fans that expand on aspects of established series. To say that someone writes "cannon fanfiction" is entirely an oxymoron. NO FANFICTION IS CANNON. If fanfiction were cannon, it would merely be fans sitting around typing out the story exactly as it happens on the pages of the manga.
Yes, couplings like Kusanagi/Yuzuriha exist in the manga. This is cannon. We see them go out on a few dates, and such. However, writing fanfiction about them going out on a rowboat ride and kissing IS NOT CANNON. Such a thing has not happened in X.
If someone were to sit here and read this and say "You don't know that! They could have kissed!" would be the same thing as someone saying that it can't be known if Seishirou and Subaru had sex. You can naturally guess that Kusanagi and Yuzuriha have kissed (thought this is doubtful for several reasons that stem from Japanese culture that I won't post right now because they have nothing to do with my point) as they do couple-type things, but one could just as naturally guess that Seishirou and Subaru have had sex at some point. While we're on the subject of "sensual beings," it seems to me that Seishirou himself is a very sensual being, so why wouldn't he want to seduce someone as beautiful and appealing to him as Subaru? He certainly enjoys touching him enough. It's all up to interpretation, which is what fanfiction is all about.
Fanfiction is literally that: interpretation. Opinions on characters - also interpretation. In fact, ANY opinions formed about any type of series are interpretation and that is all. The only one who ever really knows what's absolutely correct is the creator, and often times, creators don't WANT there to be a right or wrong answer about what has occurred in their stories. No one can be right or wrong about interpretation.
Certainly there can be mistaken interpretation, but this comes from a lack of knowledge about certain facts, or twisting of the facts for personal agendas (which sadly happens in fic writing often). But interpretation itself is the very basis for fandom. The only people who know the whole truth are CLAMP, and they sure as hell aren't telling. They started out as a fan group themselves, drawing doujinshi for such series as Earthian and Samurai Troopers. I think that's why they leave so much up to interpretation. They want to encourage fan speculation. (What's funny is a prime example of CLAMP wanting to leave things up to interpretation: Know the picture where Seishirou is killing a Sumeragi dressed in their shikifuku? The note in the back of the artbook for the picture says something along the lines of "As to whether that is Subaru or Hokuto, I won't say!")
To say that Seishirou and Subaru DIDN'T have sex during TB is merely an interpretation. Such things that could add to an interpretation to the contrary is that Seishirou repeatedly demonstrates the ability to use his powers to make Subaru forget things. Who's to say he didn't seduce him and make him forget? Neither argument is fact.
To say that the only reason Subaru would have sex with Seishirou "is to drown himself in pain, or in anger, or just to hurt the other person," is merely someone else's interpretation of Subaru's character. Other fans don't see it that way. Neither one is wrong, technically. Gather evidence and examine it, is all one can do.
To say that it is AU to write fics about Seishirou and Subaru having sex at all simply because "we don't see it so it isn't cannon" basically says that ALL fanfiction is AU. I think some people need to get their fanfiction definitions straight. To me, AU means a fic in which the characters are borrowed from a series, taken out of their normal settings, and are placed somewhere else. Such as X taking place back in medieval times, or even as close to their universe as them being normal students and adults and not having a destiny war to worry about. THAT is AU. Speculating about things that could and might have happened in their current universe is NOT AU.
So to sit there and say "You're wrong, you're wrong and you're wrong," point by point, is a complete waste of time and energy. What-ifs, what-could-have-beens, character-study, speculation, interpretation. These are what fanfiction is all about. These are what fandom is all about. Fans shouldn't forget that. It is OKAY for someone to not like the character that you love, or to love the character that you hate (or, for that matter, love a pairing that you hate and hate a pairing that you love). It doesn't make you a better fan than them for liking a certain thing, it just makes you a FAN. That is all. They see them a different way than you do. Just think of it as getting to keep that character/pairing all to yourself.
Sex in general:
Not even going to touch it because some of the stuff that is being said is either a. ridiculous or b. a matter of opinion.
Bashing characters just to get a reaction:
*rolls eyes* This is just sad, and a strong indicator of someone who is attention-starved and in need of a life. Here's a quarter. Go buy one.
As I said above, twisting things and/or provoking things for personal agendas is silly and a waste of time. Most fans with any dignity won't take such bait because they're secure in how they view things, and rarely care if someone thinks they are wrong.
Using American sitcoms and shows as examples:
*rolls eyes again* I'm not even going to go into this because that was so ridiculous. Does everyone keep forgetting that X is a JAPANESE manga? North American standards need not apply. Especially sitcoms... *shudders*
Some of you need to get over yourselves and try to respect your fellow fans. We all like X and we all have to share the space of X fandom. How about we NOT be unpleasant, rigid and inflexible about things, stop pushing personal agendas and just have a bit of a chat about character-interpretation regarding Subaru and Kamui, hmm? If you don't like something, ignore it. Why waste your time on it? Or at least don't bash the fans that do like it.
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