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• Vanillanova is a nice suburban school for nice suburban kids. They've had their successes in athletics, but many tinged with scandal. Better than most, but hardly the sainted ones they pretend to be. (NT) -- John, Wed March 30, 2005 21:55:55
  • I believe its "Vill A No Fun" (NT) -- Ram04, Wed March 30, 2005 23:47:01
    • It is actually both. Most people I knew at Fordham referred to it as Vanillanova which I found rather humorous b/c Fordham was quite vanilla itself. (NT) -- ace93, Thu March 31, 2005 09:16:29
      • Perhaps it's all relative, but at least statisitcally Fordham is much more diverse than 'Nova. Toss in the truly urban environments of both our campuses compared to 'Nova's antiseptic suburban location and we appeal to a somewhat different breed. And the Jesuits vs. Augustinians? No contest. (NT) -- Mojofunk'75, Thu March 31, 2005 18:03:16
        • I cannot speak to the numbers now, but when I was there Fordham was somewhat diverse during the day, but once the commuters went home it was much different. And then if you surveyed things on the night of the Block F dinner it would be very one dimensional on campus. (NT) -- ace93, Thu March 31, 2005 20:02:33
    • Not to be confused w/ Boredham University. man I had absolutely no idea there was this much anti-Nova feeling. On the St. Joe's board I understand, but Fordham?? (NT) -- Novafan, Thu March 31, 2005 10:21:22
  • In the admissions world it's known as "Vanillanova." 'Nuf said. (NT) -- Mojofunk'75, Thu March 31, 2005 00:45:27

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• Chaka, good post. I have nothing against Nova. A good friend from HS went there and I spent several weekends there and it was a lot of fun. A couple of buddies from law school are VU grads and they are great guys. There are snobby and condescending blow hards everywhere, even at FU. I think you hit the nail on the head when you raised the jealousy issue for that I think is at the essence of everything. The Catholic schools in the Big East are what we would like to be, feel we could have been and are striving to become. What separates us from them were competent Administations and Athletic Departments. Finally, say what you want about Nova but 25 years ago they played most likely the perfect college game on the biggest stage. (NT) -- RickFC77, Wed March 30, 2005 22:23:19
  • Its amazing what sports does to academic reputation. In the early 1980s, Fordham was generally perceived as slightly better academically than Nova. Since, the Championship, Nova has passed Fordham in terms of reputation, albeit slightly. As I alluded to yesterday, I believe tboth institutions are pretty equal and when I say pass, I refer to those annual rankings we all love. I just think it is incredible what sports can do for a University. (NT) -- Novafan, Thu March 31, 2005 10:15:52
  • Don't know what got into the Nova Augustinians in 1979 but whatever it was, it was a stroke of genius(very unlike them). Generally speaking, the Jesuits are much miore forward thinking and i have a laundry list of ridiculous items I can point to Nova's ultra conservative hierarchy. But the decision to join the Big east was a godsend. (NT) -- Novafan, Thu March 31, 2005 10:39:06

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• One major correction: I meant to say with the exception of St. John's. (NT) -- RickFC77, Wed March 30, 2005 22:34:08

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• Chaka -- great post. I know a ton of people who went to VU from Northern New Jersey, where they get off thinking that the school is "better" than Fordham and "Ivy-like" is beyond me. The school is indeed "even par" with Fordham at best. In my opinion, the snobby dimension comes into play based on the location of the schools. I am convinced that some 'Nova students (parents) from New Jersey would not dare go to a school in the BRONX, but have no problem with the suburbs of Philly. (NT) -- NJRAMFAN, Thu March 31, 2005 06:58:32

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• Ever notice that some kids' appraisal of their schools is based on the "toniness" of the neighborhood in which the school is located, as opposed to the quality of what actually goes on inside the classrooms, research facilities, etc.? Seems to be some kind of suburban ethic brought to school evaluation. [Explains almost everything but Holy Cross, but they may think they're superior since they're on a hill overlooking Worse-ter.] (NT) -- John, Thu March 31, 2005 09:09:32

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• Villanova's just better. Better team, better program, better coach, better facilities. There is no comparison. (NT) -- Donkey Puncher, Thu March 31, 2005 13:28:37
  • I don't know about better coach. When you're in the Big East, you have a better shot at recruiting the ranked players. DW is in the process of turning around a program that was at rockbottom (2-26) in a league that is not as heralded as the Big East, with , this year, only two upperclassmen, one of whom was a Senior with more heart than athletic ability. I think you have to take a wait and see attitude on who is the "better coach". (NT) -- West Ram, Thu March 31, 2005 14:55:21
    • Should have been "scholarship upperclassmen"... (NT) -- West Ram, Thu March 31, 2005 14:58:10
  • It's easy to say your program is good when you schedule lots of programs which don't pose a serious threat. I wonder if Nova will continue to play us as our program continues to gain strength. St. John's, another Big Least team, won't. I wonder if your "better coach" would be willing to leave the "better facilities" of Nova's campus and bring his "better program" to play us at RH? (NT) -- Elephant Hunter, Thu March 31, 2005 17:30:14
  • . . . better suspensions, better at NCAA victories forfeited for rules infractions, better coked-up players in the NCAA. Maybe you're right about "better". (NT) -- John, Thu March 31, 2005 17:45:46
    • I came here as a neutral observer but you guys have been downright insulting. I forgot Fordham's athletes are all saints. You know as well as I do that Nova's allegations were a complete joke. (NT) -- Novafan, Fri April 01, 2005 09:14:55
      • When Nova had some of its players suspended a year or two ago at the beginning of the season, Nova bumped a previously scheduled game vs. St. Joe's (or was it Temple?) at the last minute in order to play several cupcakes and thus blatantly game their RPI. Now THAT was a joke, made funnier by the alternating silence and rationalizations of many Nova fans who felt entitled to engage in this shameful practice without criticism. I guess ethics are different in the Big East. Rather than consider what we say "insulting", you could choose to look at our observations as educational and enlightening, an opportunity to get outside of the groupthink that afflicts many Big East fan bases. (NT) -- DamnRam, Fri April 01, 2005 10:02:38
        • It was vs. Temple. Villanova was trying to get in as many games as possible before heading out to Hawaii for the Maui Classic. From what I recall they decided to play 3 non-DI schools out in California before heading to Maui so that their players could get a big part or all of their suspensions over with before the tournament. Chaney went nuts over this and after a bunch of back and forth they decided to play their game at midnight (or one minute past) of the first day of permitted NCAA competition. I believe Nova wanted to reschedule the Temple game, not do away with it entirely. Either way, in my opinion, it was turned into a much bigger deal than it was which should come as no surprise given that John Chaney was involved. (NT) -- ace93, Fri April 01, 2005 10:14:10
          • Chaney is definitely a one-man drama show. That said, Nova's behavior clearly circumvented the spirit of what suspensions are supposed to be about. Bumping and rescheduling Temple for a midnight game just after the suspension period ended only further highlighted their lack of ethics. To some degree I blame the A10 and Chaney for letting Nova use them like that, and certainly the NCAA for allowing Nova to end-run their sanctions. I would blame the Big East for doing nothing, but expecting their management to enforce integrity is like expecting a dog to whistle. (NT) -- DamnRam, Fri April 01, 2005 11:43:33
            • The more I read this thread, the more I think many of your fans are extremely jealous, and have a huge inferiority complex to go along with a “we are holier than thou” attitude Sorry the Big East doesn't have the ethics of the A-10. C’mon, all I have to do is point to a few of the thugs you had on your team a couple of years back. Don’t get me started on some of the other programs in your league. Asking a favor of a Big 5 school to reschedule a game? That is bad ethics? Give me a break, folks. You guys know as well as I do that in the grand scheme of things, Nova is a clean program. Did you see the academic rankings for NCAA teams in the USA Today recently? I realize I opened this discussion but many of the opinions are absurd. You’ve been hanging out with St. Joe’s fans too much. (NT) -- Novafan, Fri April 01, 2005 12:08:05
              • No jealousy on my part (can't speak for anyone else); that's a rationalization on your part. Rescheduling a game to deal with weather or facilities conflicts is understandable; rescheduling to circumvent a punishment is bad ethics. Note that I restricted my comments about Nova to that incident and I made no blanket judgement about the program otherwise. But in regards to the Big East I have a very different opinion. Yes the A10 has had some serious incidents (LaSalle's rape, and the Chaney "goon" incident which wasn't handled nearly tough enough), but in the "grand scheme of things" they pale to what we've seen from the BE over the past 25 years. ALL leagues and programs should be held to high standards instead of dropping them when it's convenient. Which brings me to your "thugs" comment about former Fordham Rams players - who specifically are you referring to and what specific incidents, if any, are you referring to? (NT) -- DamnRam, Fri April 01, 2005 12:46:28
            • You are getting the midnight thing mixed up. It is not worth getting into all the details right now b/c I will probably just confuse things further, but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. (NT) -- ace93, Fri April 01, 2005 16:56:31

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• Re: #5 - I remembered us playing Nova pretty tough in Fball in the early 90's. I thought we only played them twice ... once in '92 when they were ranked #2 or #3 in the country and the final was something like 6 - 3 and the other time it wasn't as close but was stil a close game, no? (NT) -- PA Ram, Fri April 01, 2005 11:36:01
  • After doing some digging, I found the 49-10 loss in 1996 and that's what you may have been referencing. (NT) -- PA Ram, Fri April 01, 2005 11:36:54