VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, [9], 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 12:21:01 10/27/05 Thu
Author: Celebaelin
Subject: In my spare time
In reply to: Sophist 's message, "Re: Cause and consequence" on 10:58:21 10/27/05 Thu

To quote Monty Python

"Will this be the five minute argument or the full half hour?"

Yipee! Excuse my glee but I think this one could run and run with example and counter-example! As I've already written I've thought the 'magic has consequences' (always indeed being a moot point) theme has been a part of Buffy from the beginning. It may be that I was looking for this aspect and thus was likely to find supporting evidence but right from WttH I was thinking 'I bet (hope) there's magic, I wonder how they'll handle it' and I wasn't disappointed. Every time I saw a spell being cast that caused me to suck air in through my teeth and mutter 'That'll cost you' under my breath my predictions were backed up with consequences. The following quote is from S6 Flooded obviously but I'd so wanted someone (Giles) to say something like this for 5+ seasons that when it got said finally I would have missed the next few lines of dialogue from clapping and cheering my TV if it hadn't been principally silent (the bits I did miss are underlined FYI)


WILLOW: And, and, and this giant snake came out my mouth and there was all this energy crackling, and this pack of demons interrupted, but I totally kept it together. And then, the next thing you know? (triumphant) Buffy.

She smiles proudly, takes out a cookie from the box and takes a bite. Giles has his back to her, doing something in the sink.

GILES: (over his shoulder) You're a very stupid girl.

Willow pauses chewing, slowly stops smiling and frowns.

WILLOW: What? Giles...
GILES: (turns to face her) Do you have any idea what you've done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've crossed?
WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or something.
GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I trusted most to respect the forces of nature.
WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me?
GILES: (intensely) Think what you've done to Buffy.
WILLOW: I brought her back!
GILES: At incredible risk!
WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader?
GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean, shall I go on?
WILLOW: No! (stands) Giles, I did what I had to do. I did what nobody else could do.
GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them. (turns away again)
WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy. (upset) I brought Buffy back into this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking for is "congratulations."
GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ... indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive.
WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles.
GILES: (angry) You were lucky.
WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you know? You weren't even there.
GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you. The magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal than anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry) and you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant amateur!


Giles angrily grabs his towel and turns to leave.

WILLOW: You're right.

He pauses by the door, looks back at her.

Of the examples of consequenceless magic that you give a fair number are along the line of the re-unification of the Xanders in The Replacement. The magic is functioning in maintaining an effect or overcoming a mystical rule and the ending of that circumstance is essentially restoring the status quo rather than subverting it. I'd put at least the following in such a category

Gingerbread: Giles reveals the demon
WAY: Willow and Tara locate the real Buffy and conjure the device to reverse the body switch
The Replacement: The re-unification of the Xanders
OOMM: Buffy trances to find the real Dawn
WotW: Willow brings Buffy back (bit iffy)
TG: Willow restores Tara's sanity (ditto)

for
Various episodes: The "re-locking" spells to keep out vamps
I'd say that the re-establishment of the status quo still applies but I can also see how this is subject to personal interpretation and with
Intervention: Giles does the hokey pokey
the quest is the consequence.

So...I'm whittling your list down to proportions managable by the "a)consequences occur at a remote time point, b) are diffuse or c) are inconsequential to the plot and therefore not shown" 'splainy-cum-cop out.

And we all thought that it was co-incidence that Giles is constantly being knocked unconscious.

Furthermore the 'competant' sorcerors like Ethan actually make a god of chaos and add to the randomness deliberately. The Dark Arts will rule you if you do not understand them; and even if you do understand them they will not serve your every purpose - there is another, higher, agenda. Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.