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Date Posted: 18:37:38 04/20/03 Sun
Author: SurveyGuy
Author Host/IP: pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net / 68.81.153.209
Subject: This may explain a lot . . .

World Press Sees Different War
Christopher Ruddy
Thursday, April 17, 2003

With America triumphant, we should not become America na�ve.
As we have watched continuous coverage of our liberation of Saddam�s Iraq, we need to pinch ourselves and remember that much of the world, especially the Arab world, does not view this war as we do.

In fact, I can only believe that press reports have fanned anti-American sentiment.

Let�s start with the European press.

While Americans see images of Iraqis cheering on American and Coalition troops, Europeans see a story of anger and defiance.

Just this week, Agence France-Presse (AFP) published a story claiming U.S. Marines had massacred a dozen innocent Iraqis.

AFP continued:

�Many Iraqis fear US plans for the future of Iraq and popular anger has been mounting over the widespread anarchy and chaos since Saddam was toppled last Wednesday. That anger was visible in Nasiriyah as the crowd marched through the street chanting �Yes to freedom ... Yes to Islam ... No to America, No to Saddam.� Such anger was also visible in the northern city of Mosul, when a firefight broke out as the newly appointed governor was making a speech which listeners deemed was too pro-US, witnesses said.�

In Coalition partner Britain, Robert Fisk of the Independent has been reporting Iraq as a cauldron of American-made disaster.

Though an Arabist, Fisk is a highly respected journalist.

Earlier this week, he fired off a report detailing how every major Iraqi government ministry in Baghdad was being looted and trashed without any American or British protection � except two. The two offices Fisk said had massive U.S. military protection were the Interior Department�s offices, home of the Secret Police, and the Ministry of Oil. Of course, such stories will be cited as anecdotal evidence that we invaded for oil.

In Fisk�s most recent report, he railed against the destruction of Iraq�s treasured libraries.

Fisk wrote: �So yesterday was the burning of books. First came the looters, then the arsonists. It was the final chapter in the sacking of Baghdad.�

According to Fisk, �The National Library and Archives � a priceless treasure of Ottoman historical documents, including the old royal archives of Iraq � were turned to ashes in 3,000 degrees of heat. Then the library of Korans at the Ministry of Religious Endowment was set ablaze.�

He then added ominously, �And the Americans did nothing.�

Such reports are also now widespread in the very anti-American Arab press.

UPI editor Arnaud de Borchgrave says that �the looting disaster at Baghdad's National Museum of Iraq � and the wanton destruction of 5,000 years of history � is already being described as proof the Bush administration is on a campaign to eradicate all vestiges of Islam and before Islam the history of the cradle of civilization.�

The Arab press is full of exaggeration, but still widely believed.

Here�s another report given credence from online ArabNews.com: �... Baghdad and a number of other Iraqi cities should be shelled with chemical bombs. Yes, that is the truth; Baghdad has been battered with chemical bombs and bombs carrying highly combustible depleted uranium. ... Aside from these munitions, advanced cluster bombs carrying ethylene gas have also been used. They are called MOABs, or massive ordnance airburst bombs, and they are essentially chemical bombs.

And if the �suffering� of the Iraqi people is not enough, news channel Al-Jazeera says the Iraq war has wounded the Arab world�s economy.

Citing a U.N. meeting in Beirut, the Arab TV service said, �The U.S.-led war on Iraq could cost as much as $1 trillion in lost production in Arab countries. ...�

Despite America�s best intentions, our many adversaries, both in Europe and the Arab world, want to win the war against America in the hearts and minds of the world.

Because it is a high-tech superpower, there was never any doubt of America�s victory. But we have seen smashing American victories turned to mush. The Tet offensive in Vietnam was a major American victory. Later, it became the beginning of the end of America�s disastrous involvement in Vietnam.

The ground war has been won, but the propaganda war has just begun.

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Replies:

[> This says it all: "He (Fisk) then added ominously, "And the Americans did nothing." That is the whole story, isn't it? It is all about America. The Iraqis were being thugs and destructive but it was the Americans who are to be blamed. Right! America is always the one to blame! Notice that it was Iraqis who were filmed looting and pilaging, burning and trashing. Of course we must not say "The Iraqis were trashing their own country; trashing their own libraries; trashing their own hospitals; trashing their own museums, etc." Don't say that. Blame the US instead. -- William, 19:40:31 04/20/03 Sun (cache-dl04.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.40)

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[> [> Actually many of the museum looters seem to be from elsewhere, caught trying to cross Syrian border. Some of the locals have returned what they took. (Why isnl't the U.S. watching the road to Damascus . . . or are they? -- SurveyGuy, 20:01:34 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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[> [> [> SurveyGuy, are the looters from State College, Detroit, Cincinati, East LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago? I heard some were from the Rodney King rioters as well as the celebrants from the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers championship team celebrants and other sports team celebrants. Looting is the new way to celebrate victory. -- William, 12:28:44 04/22/03 Tue (cache-dl03.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.39)

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[> [> Now the Americans are doing something about looters - http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2003/04/25/367175.html - stripping them naked and writing "Ali Baba - thief" on their chest. This is how we demonstrate the superiority of our civilisation and society. And then we wonder why they want us out. -- Chris Henry, 09:12:09 04/27/03 Sun (cache10-2.ruh.isu.net.sa/212.138.47.29)

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[> [> [> ***Sorry, I cannot find a translator for that page. The Dutch translator didnlt work. Is it Finnish or Norwegian? In either case, please provide a way to translate to English or nothing can be learned. I tried several translators but do not have time to make this a project. -- SG, 15:30:24 04/28/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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[> [> [> P.S. The pictures look mighty suspicious. The chest writing is in Arabic. Not very many of our soldiers can speak or wirte Arabic. To what end? Seems totally alien. More propaganda? This makes no sense. Especially since the pictures do not seem to show the soldiers confining anyone. -- SG, 15:37:34 04/28/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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[> Got to be politically correct, you know. It is fashionable to blame the US for everything. Don't blame the real cuplrits, in this case, the rabid masses of Iraqis with no respect and no self control!

Hey, Fisk, and all you other Arab and European anti-American liars, instigators, excuse makers, and placaters, wake up! Stop covering for the thugs. The US is not to blame for Iraqis and other Arab idiots! Blame them for their own lack of self control and for their rabid behavior. In the mean time, kiss my ass you idiots! -- William, 19:43:02 04/20/03 Sun (cache-dl04.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.40)

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[> [> Note that Fisk is described as "highly respected" and yet he is but a propagandist, not much different from the CNN crowd. I guess it takes very little to be respected these days. -- SurveyGuy, 20:03:52 04/20/03 Sun (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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[> [> [> Well put, SurveyGuy. "respected" my left foot! Propagandist IS more like it! I don't understand what motivates these propagandists. Do you? If there were no more Great Britain and no more US, there would be a lot less "free speech" and a lot less "freedom". There would be more oppression and abuse and people would wish and pray that the US and Great Britain were still around to defend freedom and oppose fascism, Islamofascism, communism, socialism, etc. It won't be appreciated until it is gone. -- William, 20:17:57 04/20/03 Sun (cache-dl04.proxy.aol.com/205.188.209.40)

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[> [> [> [> Just to put you right, William. Tony Blair regards himself as a Socialist. To qoute from the Labour Party website "�The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few. Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe. And where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.� -- Chris Henry, 06:39:50 04/21/03 Mon (NoHost/82.47.215.137)

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[> [> [> [> In contrast, Chirac occupies a similar part of the political spectrum to Bush. To quote Dick Morris of "The Hill", "Chirac is a man of the right. Elected by a coalition of Gaullists and neo-Gaullists, he has always cast himself as the adversary of socialism and the apostle of free markets". It's a complicated world when socialists support a war on Iraq and conservatives oppose it! -- Chris Henry, 07:32:55 04/21/03 Mon (NoHost/82.47.215.137)

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[> [> [> [> [> In Europe, liberal and conservative seem to mean the opposite of what they do here. "Socialism" has been so distorted that its meaning is no longer understood by those who speak or hear the term. In fact, socialism is closer to what is now called "capitalism." Strange indeed. What we call capitalism has been getting closer to "state capitalism" year by year. But what's in a name? -- SurveyGuy, 09:15:05 04/21/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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[> [> If a mob were looting downtown Philly, then we would obviously blame the mob, but we would also blame the cops if they stood by and did nothing. Same situation in Iraq, our government has changed the regime and therefore has to accept the regime's responsibility for maintaining law and order. We can't pick and choose what we will be responsible for, or pretend we have no responsibility. -- Chris Henry, 06:32:32 04/21/03 Mon (NoHost/82.47.215.137)

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[> [> If our forces don't maintain law and order, then who will - Saddam Hussein's? And if we are seen to fail in this responsibility, then of course all the hostile press will make the most of the opportunity to say that we replaced a repressive regime with total chaos and anarchy - we'll have given them a perfect opportunity. -- Chris Henry, 06:34:26 04/21/03 Mon (NoHost/82.47.215.137)

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[> [> [> If the military had shot looters, it would have been reported as shooting "innocent" civilians. The military are doing a lot more. Notice, no people starving. There are not 1000s of fleeing refugees (predicted by the press). I find this handwringing disingenuous. If there were a war going on in Philadelphia and people were looting, then they'd be looting. I guess the good citizens of Iraq didn't care either. I donot see them running to protect their museums. Objects are worthless to people who are dead. I would rather have the military protect life. -- SurveyGuy (It seems the very wealthy are often more concerned about art than people.), 09:09:51 04/21/03 Mon (pcp01422563pcs.lndsd201.pa.comcast.net/68.81.153.209)

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