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04/26/24 6:49pmLogin ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12[3]4 ]


Clatsop County Matters
Click on any of the pictures below to link you to a blog written by one of your neighbors, friends, colleagues, or info on a local agency or someone you are thinking of voting for

Welcome to Clatsop County Matters

While this was a forum to respectfully discuss those matters which concern the citizens who live, work and play in this small corner of the Pacific Northwest, the time has come to use a new board for our forum. We are moving our main discussion forum over to Clatsop County Matters'Dried Salmon Forum at Proboards. Please join us there. Sharing news and views of Clatsop County's agencies, governing bodies, businesses, schools, plans, projects and future.
Note posting agreement at bottom of page
Please, use this Voy forum for posting events

and this oneClassifieds for posting your items for sale.

The archives are still here (look up at the top of this page, over on the righthand corner, click on one of the numbered pages) to read and you can cut and paste them over to the other forum board. You can no longer reply to the threads. We hope to see you on the other forum board. Also, remember to visit the bloggers and other sites linked to on this page.
Clatsop County Matters blog


Subject: An hour a week


Author:
Jeff Hazen
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/22/06 11:01am

Many of you have heard of my story of being a lunch buddy. Well, it's a new school year and there are hundreds of kids in elementary schools throughout Clatsop County that need a lunch buddy. I was matched up 2 weeks ago with a fantastic third grader at Warrenton Elementary School. We hit it off immediately and have a great time eating lunch together.

I am in the process of recruiting others to join the lunch buddy program. All it takes is an hour a week to go to a school and have lunch and play at recess with a child that just needs a little positive influence in their lives. I have set a personal goal to recruit 25 new lunch buddies by the end of October. So far, I have 4 people going to sign up. You can bet that if I run into you, I'm going to talk to you about it.

Not only will you make a difference in a child's life, you will come away with a smile on your face!

Send me an email at jshazen@pacifer.com and I will get you the information. If you have questions, feel free to ask.

Jeff
[> Subject: An hour a week


Author:
Curious
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/28/06 11:47am

I dunno about being a lunch buddy-but my late mother used to volunteer to go in and be a "reading buddy" for a child who was struggling with reading skills......I would like to honor her memory by getting involved in something like that, too. Do you know if that sort'a program is still in use anywhere in the county as it was 12-15 years ago??
[> [> Subject: Reading


Author:
Jeff Hazen
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/29/06 6:14am

Absolutely. They now have the S.M.A.R.T. reading program at all of the schools. Contact the school that you would like to help and they will get you the info.
[> [> [> Subject: Re;


Author:
same
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/ 1/06 10:14pm

yeah okay!!..thanks Jeff Hazen..I'll sure look into it
[> [> [> Subject: Contact Michelle Morgan For One On S.M.A.R.T.


Author:
Patrick McGee (At John Jacob Astor)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/22/06 11:01am

Look up the number, call and ask how to contact her for more info.
Subject: Write in Anyone but Lee


Author:
Kate
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/22/06 10:03am

King Richard is on the ballot with no-one against him because the GOBS got 37 more votes than Price. So let's write in Price, or ANYONE for that matter, but Lee!
[> Subject: ill vote for someone else just so he can see the #s


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/22/06 9:51am

but its hard to believe in cindy when she apparantly just gave up so easily.
[> [> Subject: Anyone But Lee


Author:
Kate
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/22/06 10:03am

Gave up? She spent a lot of money and fought to the bitter end despite every GOB and the Daily A supporting Lee. She was half of one percent behind Lee at the end but the guy who gets more votes appears alone on the ballot
Subject: I'd like to dedicate this song to Tom Cain


Author:
Icepick
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/13/06 1:11pm

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I'm running
Yes before it's too late
Trying to get away
From that jail bait

It's a rough temptation
But a common invitation
And a good association
But a quck elimination
That will take you out of circulation
Yes I'm talking about that younger generation

So take my advice fellas
For goodness sake
15, 16, 17 that's jail bait

Now they swear that they're in love
That you and her got stars above
And she's lookin mighty good
Just like a young girl should

Well we try to tell ya no
And let that young girl go
But you you know it all
You have yourself a ball

And now it is too late
As you look from cell number 8
I tried to tell yo old mate
17 and 1/2 is still jail bait

So tomorrow's the date
For the trial of jail bait
And this you watch and see
The young girl will go free
And you'll get one to three

So out the door she walks
To another man she talks
Before you can count
From one to eight
Another man in for
Jail bait.

Please mister judge
If you just let me go this time
I won't mess with them young girls no more
I swear I'm not gunna bother them Mister Judge

I ain't gunna bother nothin fifteen
I ain't gunna bother nothin sixteen
I ain't gunna bother nothin seventeen
I ain't gunna mess with none at eighteen

I'm gunna leave the twenty year old ones alone too
Gunna get me a girl about forty-two
If you just believe what I say Mister Judge
Please Mister Judge I ain't gunna bother then young girls no more

Gimme a break Mister Judge

Please Mister Judge

[> Subject: Tom Caine


Author:
Miss Bell
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/ 7/06 9:33pm

with apologies to J.J Cale & Eric Clapton.

If you wanna hang out you've got to whip it out; Tom Caine.
If you wanna get down, down on the ground; Tom Caine.
he dont lie, he dont lie, he dont lie; Tom Caine

You got bad news, they took away your blues; Tom Caine.
When your career is done and you're in Cell 31; Tom Caine.
he dont lie, he dont lie, he dont lie; Tom Caine.

Without your cop car, you wont get far; Tom Caine.
Dont forget this fact, you cant get it back; Tom Caine.
He dont lie, he dont lie, he dont lie; Tom Caine.

He dont lie, he dont lie, he dont lie;...Tom Caine.

[> [> Subject: hey you've got to hide your love under the bed


Author:
charlie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 12:19am

Hey tom cane you've got
to hide your love away
under the bed. tom cane,
you've got to hide her away
you've got to hide your love away
under the bed,
every where people stare
and they laugh at you
how can you even try, there you stand
head in hands,
Hey tom cane you've got to hide your love
away, she might rise up and
bite, hey, she's been hiding under
the bed 12 hours and
you don't know she's there
hey tom cane you
got to hide yourlove away,
if she's gone
you've got to hide your love
away, I am Tom Cane
feeling two foot small
Hey I am Tom
turn my face
to the wall
Hey
[> [> Subject: hey you've got to hide your love under the bed


Author:
charlie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 12:22am

Hey tom cane you've got
to hide your love away
under the bed. tom cane,
you've got to hide her away
you've got to hide your love away
under the bed,
every where people stare
and they laugh at you
how can you even try, there you stand
head in hands,
Hey tom cane you've got to hide your love
away, she might rise up and
bite, hey, she's been hiding under
the bed 12 hours and
you don't know she's there
hey tom cane you
got to hide yourlove away,
if she's gone
you've got to hide your love
away, I am Tom Cane
feeling two foot small
Hey I am Tom
turn my face
to the wall
Hey
[> [> Subject: hey you've got to hide your love under the bed


Author:
charlie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 12:23am

Hey tom cane you've got
to hide your love away
under the bed. tom cane,
you've got to hide her away
you've got to hide your love away
under the bed,
every where people stare
and they laugh at you
how can you even try, there you stand
head in hands,
Hey tom cane you've got to hide your love
away, she might rise up and
bite, hey, she's been hiding under
the bed 12 hours and
you don't know she's there
hey tom cane you
got to hide yourlove away,
if she's gone
you've got to hide your love
away, I am Tom Cane
feeling two foot small
Hey I am Tom
turn my face
to the wall
Hey
[> Subject: tommo


Author:
charlie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/ 8/06 11:38pm

well I met him a an old clubbo in ole seaside-o-o
tomm-o,
he walked like a coppo
but talked like a juvo
la la la tommo
girls will be boys and boys will be girls
it's a mixed up world.
tomm-o, he walked up to me and
said T-O-M-A, C-A-N-E
It's a mixed up shook up world.
He said I'll make you a man.
Cane, Tom SPD.
we'll drink champange and
dance all night
TOMA, toma, Toma, TOMA
well I raised cane
and pushed her to the floor
well I'm not the world's most passionate man
but I'm a man and I'm glad I'm a man Toma
and I met her in a club in old Seaside.
she was only 15 but she put me on my knee
girls will be boys and boys will be girls
Toma, toma, altogether now, it tasted just like
cherry cola, well I said I was a cop, pushed her
away and that's the way I wanted us to stay,
but I'm glad I'm a man and a cop,
so she came home with me,
she was only 15,
but I didn't care
and I was on duty
I got down on my knees
and she on hers
and she said
TOMO
the rest is front page history
[> Subject: Please, Mr. Marquis...


Author:
Crybaby
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/ 9/06 5:58am


Please Mr. Marquis, won't you let Tom Caine go free?
Please Mr. Marquis, won't you let Tome Caine go free?
He don't belong in prison, though he's guilty as can be,
But the only crime he's guilty of is simply loving me.
Please Mr. Bergin, won't you let Tom Caine go free?

Well I know it won't be long now,
Since they took his badge away.
Still I'm hoping there's one favor
That I could beg of you. So...

Please Mr. Marquis, won't you let Tom Caine go free?
Yeah yeah yeah

Inmates:
Please Mr. Bergin, won't you let this jailbird free?
Whoa ho ho

Allison:
Just look into his eyes, open up that door.
Just listen to his bullshit, you'll know the score.

Cry Baby:
Please Mr. Marquis, let an honest man go free.

Allison:
Yeah yeah yeah

Cry Baby and inmates:
Please Mr. Marquis, don't you make no lifer outta me.
I'm innocent, I swear it. Let my woman testify,
She'll tell you I picked her up at the playground,
So I could be satisfied.

Allison:
Please Mr. Marquis, won't you let Tom Caine go free?

Cry Baby and inmates:
Well I'm tired of reading the Daily Astorian down in this rotten hole,
I gotta reach the junior high before I lose control.
Please Mr. Marquis, don't you make no lifer outta me.

Allison:
Yeah yeah yeah

Cry Baby and inmates:
Please Mr. Marquis, let me out of this penitentiary
(Whoa, let me out)
Please Mr. Marquis, don't you make no lifer out of me.

Allison:
Please Mr. Marquis, won't you Tom Cain go free?

Whoa ho ho oh, whoa ho, let Tom Caine go free.
Whoa oh oh, don't make no lifer out of me.
[> [> Subject: Jail House Rock


Author:
Shifty Henry
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/10/06 7:12pm


[b] Bergin threw a party in the county jail.
Tom Caine was there and he began to wail.
The press was jumpin' and the joint began to swing.
You should've heard those knocked out jailbirds sing.
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

Julie Leonhardt played the tenor saxophone,
Warren Moe was blowin' on the slide trombone.
Mary Ann Murk who's defending the jerk went crash, boom,clop,
the whole rhythm section was a Seaside Cop.
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.[/b]

[> Subject: Concensus > should this be removed?


Author:
Forum admin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/13/06 4:49pm

At the bottom of this forum it states "No shaming or flaming" Is this an example of shaming/flaming? Is anyone in the public eye or mentioned in the Daily Astorian fair game? No biggy? What are your thoughts?
[> [> Subject: If your going to call someone to account for their actions, put your name to it


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/13/06 5:13pm

I loved the new rendition of this song and didn't even really think it was that bigga deal. I can't imagine anyone sticking up for the guy except maybe his misguided little love sick girlfriends. But then when's the line drawn? When someone shames someone I think is innocent? I vote that the authors put their names to it so we can keep 'em up (or someone post them on their blogs so we can still have access to them!)
[> [> [> Subject: Simple question


Author:
J. Pierce Christie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/14/06 1:08pm

Jon, I notice when I click on your email it comes up thincaboutit64@hotmail.com now I have thought about it and I know you're not the Jon that I went to school with who lives in Alaska now and sometimes participates in some of the local forums. Now I don't mean to pry and I appreicate your posts and updates on Jeff Hazens son particularly, who is in all our prayers I'm sure. If you don't mind my asking who are you?
[> [> [> [> Subject: I'm a long haul driver


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/14/06 1:46pm

Simmons. I lived here when I was growing up and moved away. I came back now in between runs.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: simple question


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/14/06 4:30pm

What school(s) did you attend?
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: now its a compound one


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/16/06 3:31pm

L& C consolidated when I was here.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Cool


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/16/06 3:59pm

What years and how'd you like it?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: about four decades ago, childhood - not my fondest memories


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/16/06 11:36pm

eh, could of had help with recognizing bruises welts and fat lips for what they were and I don't mean a clumsy child.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: yeeesh


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 5:28am

Doesn't sound like much fun. Are we talking hacks here or mostly fights? What grade were you in to recieve that kind of treatment?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: this was a home treatment


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 3:10pm

That people turned a blind eye to. It was the times but caused a inability to trust anyone in authority really. Not a blame game but a fact of reality for me. How did this thread change? Someone else's turn to "share". I'm done.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ah c'mon be true to your school


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/17/06 5:42pm

Not trying to trigger any harsh memories, I was mainly interested what grades you attended. I liked what you said about integrity and people using their real names to post stuff. I guess I'm suprised that you aren't a little more forthcomming. You could do it all in one post. ie; I was at L&C for grade_ thru_. My best friends were _ and _. My favorite teacher was_, and_ was the football coach and I had a crush on_. I would rather hear about the school and the people you came in contact with there.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I was there in 5-8 grades


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/18/06 11:09am

the girls I had crushes on were a bit older, Dixie and Phyllis, if I remember correctly. Once again, your turn. Reciprocate. Forthcoming because school doesn't make me gush warmth? I hated it. I hate the memories of it. I hate that I was embarassed there, to go there, how I looked there.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Very good!


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/18/06 11:55am

7th and 8th girls that I knew were all so cute I could barely stand it, and of course at that age they tend to be ahead of the puberty curve ( no pun intended) couple that with the styles they were sporting in the mid 1960's and it was pretty hard to keep one's mind on the teacher although some of them were kinda cute too. I too was pretty geeky those years, bad hair cut, overbite, young for my grade and on the short side with occasional acne problems dandruff and so forth The first girl I got a crush on in the 7th grade was Jackie. My favorite teachers names were Helen, Pat and Mr. Braun, the football coach was Chuck our quarterback was Bernie. Two of my best friends at the time were Mark and Ken. So what year were you in the 8th grade and who were your favorite teachers/friends besides the two older girls you mention?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: More recipication


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/18/06 4:52pm

Jr. High can be tough, what did you enjoy doing during your years living in Lewis & Clark, you must have had some fun sometimes doing something. Where did you live, Jeffrers Gardens, Tucker Creek, Youngs river? I went to Olney School, and one of the traditions of the day was for the Olney teens to put on the Strawberry Festival about this time in June. June Henningsen was always the director and played the piano for any songs. The plays were always some sort of Hillbully theme with titles like 'Headin for a Weddin' . It was always a benifit for the Olney Grange Hall and strawberry shortcake with whipped creme or ice cream was served by the teens who had usually also hand picked the strawberrys too. Dances were held there usually twice a month in the 60's I don't suppose you made it out to any of those?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Geez! Pierce You'd Think Jon Was Applying For A "Guhmunt" Job.


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/18/06 7:10pm

You aren't going to "sucker punch" him are you?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The truth will set you free


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 6:29am

Look Pat, I'm not trying to drag this out or 'sucker punch' Jon. I'm just attempting to know him better. He has written on this site about the importance of integrity, and I agree that integrity and credability are crucial. When I first saw the name 'Jon' , I thought perhaps it was the same Jon who is a very sraight shooter, a friend of mine and who occasionaly weighs in on some of these local blogs. This Jon Simmons is a different Jon however, though he claims to have gone to Lewis & Clark Elementery grades 5-8 at about the same time my friend with the same first name did,but he is extremely hesitant to provide any details of his years at that school other than he had a crush on Phylis and Dixie, but they were older and thus may not have even attended that school. He also says he was traumatized at home and at school so of coursre all those memories are rather painfull. Now this might be true or it might be a crock to cover up that he didn't go to Lewis & Clark, and is not who he says he is. All I would like him to provide is 1) the year he graduated or left L&C and a few names of friends and teachers. I don't think that is too much to ask a man of integrity.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Knida of ironic....


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 6:39am

I've loosened the standards for my Forum and her you are srutinizing the integrity of someone on this site.

Integrity?

Credibility?

On a local "Message Board"?

Impossible!!!!

And by the way, you're sounding pretty fiesty lately, you must be doing pretty good I hope?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Damn This "aixelsyD"!!..Sorry About The Spelling.


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 6:42am

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: It's like this...


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 7:56am

....If we're not honest about who we are and our beliefs, we are just wasting our time playing a silly game. Frankly Pat I prefer this site to yours because of your propensity to play games; using the name Peter at a time when long time well liked local Peter Huhtala was participating, however Jeff Hazen pointed out this 'Peter' was attached to your email and the appearence of authors like Goldflinch or Goldfinch who no one knows but full of bluster and ready to post like a heavy hitter and pretty much always buttress your posts, even though alias were not allowed on your site at the time. Goldfinch was reminicentof this Jon Simmons fellow in that way. I am not talking about LNG here, that is a seperate issue which must be approached with integrity, credabilty to be sure. Like the neocons you relentlessly support you have a desire to create your own reality .Now you try to pass it off as the Neo Astoria. Well the real reality has a way of catching up to a contrived one and I for one think that is a good thing.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Sorry Pierce, Didn't Realize You Were So Detached...


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:03am

from that reality.

I keep forgetting you are one of those that believe and tried to convince us of the reality, that a "Guided Missle?" was what really hit "The Pentagon".

Integrity?

Credibility?

Sure, sure.

Guess somebody has to oversee our morals on the internet.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not quite


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:24am

It was Rumsfeld who said the Pentagon was hit by a missle. I was trying to find any pictures of the 757 wreckage. Got any?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Here We Go Again.


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:34am

Stop obsessing, it wasn't a guided missile unless you call a passenger airliner deliberately driven into the Pentagon a guded missile, then yes, it was a guded missile.

You got any proof that it was anything other than a passenger airliner?

By the way, on the Peter Huhtala email?

Peter's email address is right under mine on my list of frequently used email addresses and on many occasions I have accidentally selected his name by mistake as I have done the same thing with pwong of "The Staewsman Journal" I believe is who he writes for.

I would never intentionally post somebody elses email address to something I write or am trying to push but I forget, you seem to be the self-appointed internet message board integrity monitor so I will officially apologize for the error and try to never do it again for fear of your devine judgement on those issues of credibility and integrity.

How many times have we had this arguement?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Guided missle hit Pentagon


Author:
Tom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:36am

Jamie McIntyre has a video and a report on the internet that clearly shows and says there is no plane. But don't look at it or the republicans might fire you Patrick.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Geez!!!


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:41am

Then what was it?

You see the declassified tape?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: speaking of 9/11


Author:
Tom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:32am

Any information about flight 77 passengers and what folks were up to in the recently refortified part of the pentagon that got hit by the guided "whatever it was" would be appreciated. No arabs on the passenger list and of course no dead arabs found at the site.

Rumsfeld referred to "the missle" that hit the pentagon. Why?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Could It Be Because The Craft And Contents Were Vaporized?


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:39am

Avail us of the transcript of Rumsfeld's musings would you?

Also the final FAA investigation report.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: They rely on stupidity--- "poof" evidence just vaporized?


Author:
Tom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 9:52am

You look. Or stay in the dark and we'll continue laughing at you.

Always ask yourself....Have you been DUMBED DOWN. Are you participating in the Dumbing down of your family and friends?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Looks Like Some Have Preededed Us To That Depth Tom


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/19/06 10:38am

Read Lee's very helpful post on Rumsfeld.

While you're at it, open up your mind a wee bit and try to read it in its proper context.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Truth is relative


Author:
Jon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/20/06 2:28pm

You are attempting to know me better on your terms according to a time that was good for you. I have an email address for someone who wants to talk to me about my private life. I have already stated that I don't care to discuss it publicly. Why you want to know me based on who I was at the age of 11 or 13 is aggravating to me but it shows me why I am in right in avoiding conversations about my father or his family. So many people judge you by who you were and who you were related to rather then who you've become or who you chose to be friends with. Judge me by what I've written or don't. By the way what I wrote about integrity is that if you are going to CALL SOMEONE OUT you have the moral duty to provide someone with the ability to defend themselves in replying to the real you. If your going to call someone out. Writing on a public forum doesn't mean a bonding session to reveal all the crannies you don't want to reveal and if you don't want to share your life at a place that can be accessed by every stranger lurking doesn't meen your being less then forthcoming. Its my life. I don't know you. I don't want to share it. I want to share some ideas I have on some things that I see happening in a county I have chosen to live in. That's maybe all you get here. Maybe you get more, maybe you don't but forums aren't supposed to replace human contact. There what you read and then discuss at the watering hole or with your signif other or your kid. Atleast thats what I use them for. Oh yeah, I also use them now to vote. My opinion changed to vote for Cynthia Price in the last election and if I had been able to I would of voted for Tryan Hartill. I am twisting in the wind regarding Josh Marquis. If Price is married to him he can't be all bad yet I KNOW people who have had bad run ins with him who are not bad people themselves. SO, forums are a nice place to get more info than would be normally available from a biased newspaper or just one area, like work where the same people seeing the same thing say the same thing.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: What a tangled web you weave


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/21/06 11:21am

Reality is relative when you make your own. I too have an accesible email and I offered it several times in this very thread. If you truly wanted to use that channel it was your option to use it from the start, or at any time there after. In fact I have emailed you no reply so far.
Nobodys making any judgements about you from 40 years ago or who you are related to nor would they if you were to cough up the names of a couple classmates and teachers. If you want to prove you are who you say you are, thats all it takes. If you want to meet for coffee that might be an option if it's easier for you, I'll buy the coffee. So far though, I don't think anybody's buying your story.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You can state you aren't buying my "story" asshole


Author:
Jon
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 3:17pm

You don't speak for everyone here motherfucker. You like the classroom bully who tries to get everyone else to jump on the bandwagon to pick on the kid who was already down for the count. The girls names were Dixie Woods and Phyllis Shatto. In the fifth grade a good friend was John Pollard who later was a teacher at Astoria High School a favorite teacher was in eigth grade, Max Bixbee. I loved his circuses and how it made people feel a part of the community.

Fuck you that my childhood wasn't/isn't something believable. You left me an email that has gone on responded to? You shit head. I checked my email just 24 hours ago so if you emailed me its been since then so don't go pretending like you've waited FOREVER for a response.

YEAH you've got an email address but Im not the one reaching out to you prick for brains. Meet you for coffee? People like you keeps the bars in the county full. Have a great day asshole, you sure made mine.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Now we know


Author:
lee
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 3:35pm

At least we know "jon" is no forum administrator.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Now you've proved it


Author:
Pierce
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 4:51pm

You really stepped in it now, game over. I went to Onley School grades 1 thru 6. In 1966-68 I attended Lewis & Clark, grades 7-8. We would have been in the same grade and we all knew each other, there weren't that many of us and there was no Jon Simmons. The one teachers name you mention won't fly. Max Bigby did not even get there untill several years later, when you would have been gone. The circuses were even later in the late 70's.The only thing you got is Jon Pollard, who just by coincidence is the one person that Patrick McGee knows who went to Lewis & Clark then. The fact that he added an H to the spelling of Jon and pretends to confuse him with his brother David the AHS teacher who he also knows well are just lame attempts to throw his sent off the hot trail. Jon Pollard is good people all the Pollards are. This Jon Simmons is a fictional character as are his friends Dixie and Phyllis. Pat McGee, as someone said, is from another dimenson.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: What Has Any Of This Got To Do With Me?


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06/21/06 7:52pm

Wow Pierce do we need to have Jon arrested for failing your credibility/integrity test?

Shall we call our D.A. and have him prosecuted for being an imposter?

Quite frankly who gives a rip really?

I think Jon has every right to exist in this community in spite of you, your pile-on buddy Lee Rene or me.

I'm still curious how my name pops up in this BS.

Let's see, I know Jon Pollard.

Dave Pollard and Linda Oldenkamp are two of mine and KC's best friends and I love them both dearly.

The "H" in the name was for "Jesus "H"(Huey) Christ".

Oh! I see. another missle hits the building.

Geez!!!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I appreciate someone who can ferret out a phony


Author:
Pierce's buddy, Lee
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 8:19pm

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: And The Phoney Would Be....................?


Author:
Patrick McGee
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 9:15pm

Hmmmmmm?

Please tell us won't you?

We must know.

There's so much at stake here.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: the shoe fits


Author:
lee
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 9:26pm

put it on.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: It's You Isn't It Lee?


Author:
Patrick McGee
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Date Posted: 06/22/06 7:06am

I knew it all along.

Darned "Outlanders" bringing all that hatred and bitterness here.

This some kind of game you and Pierce concocted?

And then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, Eric Swedberg shows up.

Go figure.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You can Call fictious DR. Norman Shatto and ask him


Author:
Jon
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 9:27pm

if his sister's name is Phyllis and if her best friend's name was Dixie Woods. I still think Mark Pollard's little brother's name was/is John, atleast that's what I've refered to him as nigh on some 30 odd years. And no you wouldn't know anyone named Jon Simmons prick head because my middle name is Jon and I took my wife's last name because I hated my fathers.

And how come you get to lie and spin webs but someone else is sinister when they don't want to swap life stories with you? Oh yeah its because you decide you can jump up people's asses for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I have never done anything to you wouldn't know you if we met on the street or passed in a car. You say you've liked my posts. What the fawk guy? What the fawk? Patrick and I write nothing alike we rarely have the same politics, we've fought more than a couple of times hell if the forum admins hadn't already told me to take a flying leap I'd ask them again to show the isps of the people posting to show I'm not anyone else here. I have no idea who you think I am or why you have your finger up your ass about me but think on it jackass what parade of yours am I raining on and why the hell are you pissing all over me?

I remember reading Lee's posts on Patrick's site and they were more vague then anything coudn't tell if she was living locally or not but no big deal her posts were good made me think. For others they really bugged them and they wanted to buttonhole her put a label on her and ascribe her a condition in life as to why she thought a certain way so they could predict her what she would be thinking tomorrow. I liked her vagueness. Made you read her posts I felt.

I have remained vague on purpose. I did not want anyone to associate me with the town drunk. You get an idea in your head who that is. I didn't want someone to get a bead on me based on who I was based on whether or not they knew me in school (I am not that kid anymore) or what age I am so I didn't want to say when I went to school since I don't want to be aged.

I screwed up by saying who my favorite teacher was that aged me. I knew you made me too mad. Except you can't have gone to Consolidated in the 60s because everyone out here knew each other and everyone knew the Shattos and the Woodses. Everyone knew Dixie, knew she married the guitar player Jim Owen. Dixie is not a common name around here. I don't think you know as much about everyone around here as you pretend to, gawd almighty.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Are You My Old Buddy Robert Bettencourt?


Author:
Eric Swedberg
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Date Posted: 06/21/06 10:32pm

I know Pierce and his whole family, Jon Pollard and most of his family, and maybe I know you too. I never lived out there, but I helped John Olson push his car home.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Helpfull hint


Author:
Pierce
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Date Posted: 06/22/06 9:35am

Try not to be too vague, and watch your mouth. What did you and Patrick fight about ? I missed it. Was it this forum or your own?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Who Is It You Wish To Watch Their Mouth?


Author:
Patrick McGee
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Date Posted: 06/22/06 10:52am

There might be some confusion as to whom you are actually referring to as you seem to be a bit confused in your accusations as to whom "Jon" actually is.

You might, just for the record, want to be clear on this.

It's really kind of vague.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Someone start a new thread this one has nothing to do w/cain and is running into the wall


Author:
Jon
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Date Posted: 06/22/06 4:39pm

Jeffers Garden. I been pushed home and rolled home a few times! It was this site a while back Patrick and I went at it before we started getting on the same page with the ice hockey thing. I forget what we were so aggitated about.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: me too


Author:
Glenn
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Date Posted: 06/17/06 9:14am

L&C consolidated 7th and 8th grade.
Star of the sea 5th and 6th
Central 1st thru 4th
Seaside for Kindergarten

Warrenton high 9th & 12th
Atoka OK high 10th &11th

Lewis and Clark College 13,14
Oregon State 15,16

How's that for a bunch of schools!
[> [> Subject: If your already in the paper its no longer shame


Author:
Sandy
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Date Posted: 06/13/06 8:25pm

Yeah, it is an allegation that he was screwing around on the job. But its all in the paper already. Its not like these people are making any new allegations here. I say its no harm no foul.
[> [> [> Subject: Its not if what Cain did was shameful its can a no name call it


Author:
Jon
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Date Posted: 06/13/06 9:56pm

I think if its proved out what is alleged did happen then he can be publicly flogged (yeah, a white guy in whiteburbia flogged that'll happen) but nonames on a public forum shouldn't be the ones to be shaming him. He still has family.
[> Subject: Tom Caine Fought The Law And The Law Won


Author:
Bobby Fuller
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Date Posted: 06/15/06 7:10pm


Tryin' to save face in the hot sun
I fought the law and the law won
I needed lovin' cause I had none
I fought the law and the law won

I stashed my baby underneath my bed
Guess my race is run
The cops found her now my face is red
I fought the law and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

Guess I set myself up to fail
I fought the law and the law won (twice)
They cancelled my release and I'm back in jail
I fought the law and the law won (twice)

I hid my baby and it feels so bad
Guess my race is run
My cellmates is gay and the judge is mad
I fought the law and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

I fought the law and the law won (7 times)
I fought the law and the WON!!

[> Subject: by the way


Author:
The Redeemer
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Date Posted: 10/12/06 1:33am

what became of the Caine case? Has it been resolved and if so, what was outcome?
[> [> Subject: GO READ THE DAILY A


Author:
JACK BLACK
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Date Posted: 10/12/06 8:50am

GO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES OF THE DAILY ASTORIAN OR THE LOCAL NEWS. THIS IS A DEAD TOPIC. STOP TRYING TO STIR THE POT DIRTY STEVE.
[> [> [> Subject: okay


Author:
Muadib
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Date Posted: 10/12/06 3:00pm

Jeeez, Jack, all I did was ask a question. You don't have to yell. I don't subscribe the Astorian so those archives aren't available and if I google "the local news" I doubt Tom Caine's story is going to be in the first 20 million or so links.
[> [> [> [> Subject: LOL Yeah, get the "truth" from the Daily A and get justice


Author:
Sandy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10/13/06 1:11pm

From the DA.

Bwaaaahahahahaha

Cain was dealt out. After all of that hoopla 60 days, with credit already for time already served (meaning he was out in a few days) and 240 hours community service. The community he supposedly was endangering. He originally was charged with third-degree sexual abuse, a misdemeanor, in connection with the alleged affair, as well as tampering with a witness and tampering with public records, along with multiple counts of criminal nonsupport for failure to pay child support to his wife.

While serving out his 240 hours of community service no restrictions have been imposed. He can interact with children of all ages, including teen age girls. Nothing was done about his failure to pay child support.

How much money did this case cost the taxpayer to proseccute? At the end of each article that publishes cases I want an accouting of how much money it cost for that case to come to trial. I am sick and tired of this type of bullying to take place. I want to know how much money the police spent investigating this case and how much the DA spent prosecuting it.

Is there a correlation? Should someone get more more time depending on how much was spent prosecuting him?
Subject: Singer not a reliable source of unbiased research


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/28/06 10:17am

Singer touted as expert climatoligist battling those who support Kyoto Protocol because they are "in it for the grant money" should really look at his own track record, although he is an expert in how to garner grant money for pet projects!

Dr. S. Fred Singer received a B.E.E. from Ohio State University in 1943 and a Ph.D. from Princeton University in 1948. He runs the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP), which publicizes his views on various topics, primarily climate change, ozone depletion, risks of chemical pollution (DDT and others), atomic power, and space policy. 1994- present the doctor is a Distinguished Research Professor, Institute for Humane Studies at George Mason University, Fairfax, VA. In 1994 Singer was Chief Reviewer of the report Science, economics, and environmental policy: a critical examination published by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI). This was all part of an attack on EPA regulation on environmental tobacco smoke funded by the Tobacco Institute. At that time, Mr. Singer was a Senior Fellow with AdTI.

"The report's principal reviewer, Dr Fred Singer, was involved with the International Center for a Scientific Ecology, a group that was considered important in Philip Morris' plans to create a group in Europe similar to The Advancement for Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), as discussed by Ong and Glantz. He was also on a tobacco industry list of people who could write op-ed pieces on "junk science," defending the industry's views. ExxonMobil has become a major funder of the most visible "greenhouse skeptics", most of whom who have traditionally been funded by the coal industry -- including S. Fred Singer, Patrick Michaels, Robert Balling and Sherwood Idso.

ExxonMobil is the world's third largest corporation with annual profits of about $17 billion. The company is using some of those profits to confuse the public discussion of global climate change. ExxonMobil is sabotaging the work of more than 2,000 scientists from 100 countries by funding the most visible "greenhouse skeptics" -- one of whom, S. Fred Singer, publicly denied receiving oil industry money as recently as February, 2001.

According to 1998, ExxonMobil documents, the company directly funds: S. Fred Singer's institute, The Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)as well as another foundation that promotes Singer's activities; and Craig Idso, Keith E. Idso and Sherwood Idso's institute: The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change. In its own documents, ExxonMobil is quite clear about why it funds the tiny handful of dissenting "greenhouse skeptics": "ExxonMobil provides support to selected organizations that assess public policy alternatives on issues with direct bearing on the company's business operations and interests." On Feb 12, 2001, Singer wrote a letter to The Washington Post in which he denied receiving any oil company money in the previous 20 years when he had consulted for the oil industry.

According to ExxonMobil documents, the company gave a 1998 grant of $10,000 to Singer's institute, SEPP. It gave another $65,000 to the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, Fairfax, Virginia which promotes Singer's work.

In its web page, "Atlas invites other institutes to take advantage of the opportunities provided by the proximity of SEPP. The organization's founding president, Dr. S. Fred Singer, is a well-known physical scientist who has been an active contributor in the battle against the 'politicization' of science. Singer, along with a handful of other prominent scientists, have dared to challenge claims of environmental apocalypse from global warming…Fortunately for those who believe that public policy should be based on sound science, Dr. Singer offers a wealth of information, credibility, and encouragement."

In his letter to The Washington Post, Singer wrote: "My connection to oil during the past decade is as a Wesson Fellow at the Hoover Institution; the Wesson money derives from salad oil."

In 1998, ExxonMobil gave $135,000 to the Hoover Institution -- the same year Singer published an article in the institution's publication, The Hoover Digest.

In 1997, Singer told the press that former IPCC Chairman Dr. Bert Bolin has changed his mind about climate change. According to Singer, Bolin had dismissed the connection between atmospheric warming and extreme weather events – and was distressed that the Clinton Administration was taking measures to reduce emissions.

Bolin subsequently denied making the statements. Bolin said it was "scientifically accurate" to note that extreme weather effects "are consistent with the predicted effects of climate change."

Referring to Singer's attribution of bogus statements to Bolin, the Swedish physicist dismissed them as "inaccurate and misleading."

Singer followed that misrepresentation with an attack on the integrity of the entire IPCC process in an interview last January in The New American, the magazine of the ultra-conservative John Birch Society.

Singer is also on the staff of the ultra-conservative Frontiers of Freedom institute. According to its mission statement, Frontiers of Freedom "is the antithesis to the Sierra Club and Vice President Al Gore's Earth in the Balance. Frontiers works to advance States' rights, protect property rights, privatize Social Security, defend first amendment civil liberties, and among other efforts to reform the federal tax code, the Endangered Species Act, and the Food and Drug Administration."

While Singer loudly touts himself as an accomplished scientist, he has been unable to publish his work in any peer- reviewed scientific journal for at least 15 years, except for one technical comment. His most recent peer-reviewed publication on global warming was a letter about other scientists' research which appeared in Eos, December 16, 1997. He is also skeptical about the connection between CFCs and ozone depletion, as well as ultraviolet radiation and skin cancer.

Frontiers of Freedom is funded by ExxonMobil among others, according to the Wall Street Journal.

World Climate Report (7/7/97) "President at Odds with IPCC Chief?" SEPP article Singer debate with IPCC Chairman Bert Bolin.
[> Subject: The science is settled


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/24/06 1:24am

The science is settled is a slogan attributed by opponents of the Kyoto Protocol and global warming theory to supporters notably in the Clinton administration. There are no known examples of its use outside the skeptic press, though some of the statements that were made have similar implications. It is used as a rhetorical tool. The phrase is vague, and people who use it may not elaborate what exactly is settled. Certain aspects of climate change are widely accepted: that human actions have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, for example. Other aspects - the exact degree of climate change to be expected within the next century, if any - are not settled. In between are issues such as how much the earth has warmed recently and how much of this is due to human activity.

Opponents of global warming theory have said: 'There is an idea among the public that "the science is settled."'; 'How many times have we heard from Al Gore and assorted European politicians that "the science is settled" on global warming?' 'We are assured that "the science is settled."'

Opponents of global warming theory say the slogan is an accurate summary of an arrogant disregard for real science on the part of ideological environmentalists. Supporters say it's a deliberate obfuscation on the part of industry-funded, denialist skeptics putting words in other people's mouths.

On June 3, 1997, GWT opponent S. Fred Singer of the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP) debated Bert Bolin, chairman of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. During the debate, Singer projected on a screen a quote allegedly from Undersecretary of State Timothy Wirth saying that global warming science was "settled." Bolin responded by questioning whether Wirth had been correctly quoted: "I think Tim Wirth, if quoted correctly, that he doesn't mean what you implied he meant. I've spoken to him, I know he doesn't mean it." [7] SEPP subsequently publicized this statement by Bolin in a news release claiming that Bolin "took issue with the statement by Tim Wirth," prompting Bolin to complain that SEPP had misinterpreted his remark.

On July 31, 1997, In the Senate record, in comments about Senate Resolution 98 (the Byrd-Hagel Resolution) Senator Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska) said: "While it is true that Undersecretary of State Tim Wirth said that `the science is settled,' it is clear that there is not a broad scientific consensus that human activities are causing global warming." At the same meeting, Dr. Santer said: "Even the Chairman of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Dr. Bert Bolin, says that the science is not settled. When told that Undersecretary of State Tim Wirth had said the science was settled, Dr. Bolin replied: `I've spoken to [Tim Wirth], I know he doesn't mean it.'" (Congressional Record 1997, page S8626)

On June 28, 1998, global warming skeptic Patrick Michaels revived SEPP's claim, stating that during the months leading up to the signing of the Kyoto Protocol, Wirth had "repeatedly declared that 'the science is settled.'" However, this column by Michaels was written more than six months following the meetings at which the Kyoto Protocol, was drafted, which suggests that Michaels was probably paraphrasing loosely rather than quoting Wirth's words verbatim.

[now, is that clear enough for you?]
[> Subject: The Real Story About Climate Change


Author:
Patrick McGee (Climate Action Report Undo!)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/28/06 10:17am

Warming Up to the Truth: The Real Story About Climate Change
by Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D.
Heritage Lecture #758


August 22, 2002 | |

The Climate Action Report, a periodic report to the United Nations, was issued in early June. A media frenzy claimed that this report somehow contained revelatory new science that changed the debate on global warming.

The report has little new science. But since 1992, when America embarked on the Rio Treaty, a great deal of new science has come forward. The United States is a leader in studying the subject. The U.S. has invested some $45 billion in research funding on this question over the past 10 years.

I wanted to update you on the latest science since 1992 and assure you that what is in the Climate Action Report is really nothing revelatory.

The scientific facts on which everyone agrees are that, as a result of using coal, oil, and natural gas, the carbon dioxide content of the air is increasing. The air's concentration of other human-produced greenhouse gases, like methane, has also increased. These greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation from the sun, and they retain some of that energy close to earth.

All computer simulations of climate change say that, based on how we understand climate to work, the low layer of air for one to five miles up (the low troposphere), where the radiation is trapped, should warm. That low layer of air warming should, in turn, warm the surface.

Scientific facts gathered in the past 10 years do not support the notion of catastrophic human-made warming as a basis for drastic carbon dioxide emission cuts.

You probably know that the Kyoto agreement fails to stop the hypothesized human-made global warming. Kyoto would hurt America's and the world's workers and the struggling poor and the elderly, owing to the severe cuts in energy use that it entails.

MEASURING SURFACE TEMPERATURE
Now for the science. There are two important records that we'll look at. I just told you how we think climate operates in the presence of increasing carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases in the air from human activities. The layer of air one to five miles up retains energy and that layer, in turn, heats the surface of the earth. The human-made greenhouse warming component must warm both layers of air, with computer simulations indicating the low troposphere would warm more quickly and to a greater amount than the surface.

Let's start with the surface temperature records. They are made by thermometers, and go back to about the mid-19th century in locations scattered around the world. For some locations the records go back even further.

Two groups have analyzed these surface temperature records: the Climatic Research Unit in Great Britain, and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Sciences. They broadly say the same thing: The 19th century was cooler than the 20th century. There may be some disagreement on the exact amount of the warming, but certainly the 20th century was warmer than the 19th.

To see if the 20th-century surface warming is from human activity or not, we begin looking in detail at the surface record. In the 20th century, three trends are easily identified. From 1900 to 1940, the surface warms strongly. From 1940 to about the late 1970s, a slight cooling trend is seen. Then from the late 1970s to the present, warming occurs. Briefly, the surface records show early 20th-century warming, mid-20th-century cooling, and late 20th-century warming.

Most of the increase in the air's concentration of greenhouse gases from human activities--over 80 percent--occurred after the 1940s. That means that the strong early 20th century warming must be largely, if not entirely, natural.

The mid-20th-century cooling can't be a warming response owing to the air's added greenhouse gases. The only portion of this record that could be largely human-made is that of the past few decades. The slope of that trend calculated over the past few decades is about one-tenth of a degree Centigrade per decade.

Now, most all the computer models agree that the human-made warming would be almost linear in fashion. So over a century the extrapolated warming trend expected from continued use of fossil fuels would amount to about 1 degree Centigrade per century. That's what the surface temperature says would be the upper limit.

But I gave you a scientific test to do early in my remarks. The question is, What happens in the low layer of air from one to five miles up that must warm in response to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations? The surface warming can be concluded as owing to human-made greenhouse gas emissions only if the low troposphere warms, if the computer simulations are accurate.

One can have surface warming from a variety of reasons. So the key layer of air to look at is the one-to-five-mile up layer of air.

MEASURING AIR TEMPERATURE
NASA launched satellites starting in 1979 to measure this layer of air. The satellites look down and record these measurements daily. I've plotted the monthly averages. There are lots of jigs and jags in the data, and they are real.

The air temperature varies not only on a daily basis, on a monthly basis, but also from year to year. A very huge warming spike in 1997-1998 is a strong, natural phenomenon called El Nińo, a warming of the Pacific that in turn warms the air. Because the Pacific is so pervasive in the global average, it raises the temperature. But it doesn't last very long, and after the El Nińo subsided, temperatures fell.

El Nińos are natural and occur every several years. In 1982, an equally strong El Nińo was developing in the Pacific. But then, a volcano erupted. Material lofted by strong volcanic eruptions can temporary cool temperatures. So those two events occurring at nearly the same time meant there was a net cooling just after 1982, instead of an unmasked strong El Nińo-driven pulse of warmth.

El Nińo is part of a system of ocean and air changes called the El Nińo Southern Oscillation, in which the La Nińa phase tends toward cooling. Detailed physical understanding of the El Nińo Southern Oscillation is lacking.

Again, these phenomena are naturally occurring. They have existed for many millennia prior to human-added greenhouse gases in the air.

I asked the computer to naively draw a linear trend through the data recorded by satellites. This linear trend probably has a bias, an upward bias because of that strong 1997-1998 El Nińo warm pulse. Nonetheless, the fitted trend is: positive four-hundredths of a degree Centigrade per decade.

Now, this is the layer of air sensitive to the human-made warming effect, and the layer that must warm at least as much as the surface according to the computer simulations. Yet, the projected warming from human activities can't be found in the low troposphere in any great degree. The four-hundredths of a degree Centigrade might be entirely due to this El Nińo bias. If the small warming trend in the low troposphere were assumed to be entirely human-caused, the trend is much smaller than forecast by any model. Extrapolated over a century, the observed trend indicates a human-made warming trend no greater than four-tenths of a degree Centigrade.

In contrast, the computer models say this very key layer of air must be warming from human activities. The predictions are that the air must be warming at a rate of approximately a quarter of a degree Centigrade per decade.

Comparing what the computer models say should be happening with the actual satellite observations shows a mismatch of around a factor of 6. That is, this layer of air just is not warming the way the computer simulations say it should. There should have been a half a degree Centigrade per decade warming in this layer of air over the period of satellite observations. The human-made warming trend isn't there.

Now, an argument is often made that the measurements made by satellites looking down on this key layer of air are biased, or that the satellites have instrumental problems.

NASA researchers worked very hard to make these measurements the best possible, and to correct for any of the deficiencies seen in them. But it's always useful to have an independent set of data, and we have that from NOAA (the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) scientists and from other groups around the world.

Measurements are also made of this layer of air from weather balloons that carry thermometers. Balloons are launched worldwide every day to make the measurements. The balloon data go back to 1957, and importantly, they overlap with the satellite data which began in 1979 and have continued through the present. During the period of overlap, the correlation coefficient between the two data sets, the technical term for how well do these two independent measurements agree, is well over 99 percent.

In other words, the satellite data and the balloon data both say that the records reflect the actual change in this layer of air. Again, as with the satellite record, one can recognize short-term natural variations--El Nińo, La Nińa, volcanic eruptions--but one does not see the decades-long human-caused warming trend projected by climate models.

Often, one sees these same data from this key layer of air with a linear trend drawn through them. However, because of bias in the record from a natural phenomenon, it is not appropriate to draw a straight line through the four decades of the temperature record. One must work around the natural phenomenon I'm going to tell you about.

Every 20 to 30 years, the Pacific Ocean changes sharply. The sudden shift is called the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, or PDO, and produces an ocean, air, and wind current shift. Fishermen will notice, for example, migrations of fish species along the West Coast.

In 1976-1977 the Pacific Decadal Oscillation shifted, and is labeled the Great Pacific Climate Shift of 1976-1977. As a result, temperatures changed dramatically from their former average (since around 1946), and returned to warmth seen from around 1923 to 1946. So sharp is the shift that the appropriate thing to do is to look for a secular trend (which might be the human-made trend) before 1976-1977, and then after 1976-1977. But drawing a straight line through that natural event should be avoided.

The PDO is natural, because proxy records--of tree growth, for example--detail the oscillation going back several centuries, which is prior to human activities that significantly increase the content of greenhouse gases in the air.

And also known from computer simulations is that the human-made warming trend is supposed to grow steadily over decades. So, a shift all at once in 1976-1977 is ruled out by those two reasons. One, it's not what the models project; and two, we see this event before the build-up of human-made greenhouse gases, and it is therefore natural.

The satellite data and the balloon data agree when both records coexist, from 1979 to the present. The balloon record reaches back four decades. Neither record sees a meaningful human-made warming trend.

Now, just remember this one thing from this talk, if nothing else: That layer of air cannot be bypassed; that layer of air must warm if computer model projections are accurate in detailing the human-made warming trend from the air's increased greenhouse gases. But that layer of air is not warming. Thus the human-made effect must be quite small.

Additionally, the recent warming trend in the surface record must not owe to the human-made effect. The surface temperature is warming for some other reason, likely natural influences. The argument here, from NASA and NOAA data, is that this layer of air from one to five miles in altitude is not warming the way computer simulations say it must warm in the presence of human activity. Therefore, the human-made effect is small. The surface data must be warming from natural effects, because the human-made warming trend must appear both in the low troposphere and at the surface. All models are in agreement on that.

SOLAR ACTIVITY
Now, if the surface data are warming for a natural reason, what might that be? Our research team studies changes in the energy output of the sun and its influence on life and the environment of earth.

Records of sunspot activity reach back to the days of Galileo, some 400 years ago. Scientists then could project an image of the sun and draw these dark sunspots that were seen through early telescopes. We know sunspots to be areas of intense magnetic activity, and from NASA satellite measurements in the last 20 years, we know that over time periods of decades, when the magnetism of the sun is strong, the energy output of the sun is also more intense. That is, the sun is a little bit brighter when magnetism is high, and the sun is a bit fainter when magnetism is weaker.

The sharp ups and downs in the sunspot record define the familiar 11-year cycle, or sunspot cycle. The period is not exactly 11 years. It varies between eight and 15 years, and there is no good explanation for the cause of the cycle. But I'm not going to look at the short term, but rather the changing sun over decades to centuries.

Over the past half-century, the sun has become very active, and the sun is more active than it has been for 400 years. Therefore, the sun is likely at its brightest in 400 years.

Also noteworthy is a feature called the Maunder Minimum. In the 17th century, the observations of sunspots show extraordinarily low levels of magnetism on the sun, with little or no 11-year cycle. That phase of low solar activity has not been encountered in modern times (although radiocarbon records indicate that a Maunder-minimum episode occurs for a century every several centuries). The 17th-century Maunder Minimum corresponds with the coldest century of the last millennium.

That may not be a coincidence. If the sun's energy output had faded, the earth may have cooled in response to that decrease in the sun's total energy output.

The next step is to look closer at the temperature records on earth, and see if they link to the decadal-to-century changes in the sun's energy output. Climate scientists believe they can reliably reconstruct Northern Hemisphere land temperature data back to, say, the year 1700.

If changes in the energy output of the sun, drawn from the envelope of that activity of changes in the sun's magnetism, are superposed on the reconstructed temperature record, then the two records show a good correlation.

The ups and downs of each record match fairly well. The coincident changes in the sun's changing energy output and temperature records on earth tend to argue that the sun has driven a major portion of the 20th century temperature change. For example, a strong warming in the late 19th century, continuing in the early 20th century, up to the 1940s, seems to follow the sun's energy output changes fairly well.

The mid-20th century cooling, and some of the latter 20th century warming also seem matched to changes in the sun.

To review: The surface warming that should be occurring from human-made actions, which is predicted to be accompanied by low troposphere warming, cannot be found in modern records from balloon and satellite platforms.

Thus, the recent surface warming trend may owe largely to changes in the sun's energy output.

ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES OF THE POLICY DEBATE
Science is the primary tool to understand human-caused global warming. But economic consequences of policies meant to cut greenhouse gas emissions also enter the policy debate.

Kyoto-type greenhouse gas emission cuts are expected to make little impact on the forecast rise in temperature, according to the computer simulations (which seem to give exaggerated warming trends, as discussed). One forecast, from the UK Meteorological Office, underscores the point. Without Kyoto, that model predicts a rise in globally averaged temperature of just about 1 degree Centigrade by the year 2050. Implementing Kyoto, according to that model, would result in a slightly but insignificantly lower temperature trend. The temperature rise avoided by the year 2050--the difference between the two trends--is six-hundredths of a degree. That is insignificant in the course of natural variability of the climate. Another way to look at the averted warming is that the temperature rise expected to occur by 2050 is projected to occur by 2053 if the emission cuts are enacted.

The conclusion is that one Kyoto-type cut in greenhouse gas emissions averts no meaningful temperature rise, as projected by the models. In order to avoid entirely the projected warming, British researchers estimate that 40 Kyoto-type cuts in greenhouse gas emission would be required.

The cost of implementing one Kyoto-type cut is enormous. Fossil fuels supply approximately 85 percent of energy needs in the United States; worldwide the fraction is about 80 percent. International policy discussions propose expensive solutions centered on sharp fossil fuel use cuts and a massive increase in solar and wind power. A cost-effective solution that does not stunt energy use and energy growth is to shut down coal plants, extend the licenses of the 100 nuclear power plants in the United States, and build about 800 more. However, that is not under serious discussion as a solution to what is often described as the most pressing crisis facing the earth.

Renewable energy sources like solar and wind are not only expensive but also environmentally damaging in their vast land coverage. Those renewable energy sources are not foreseen as seriously meeting projected energy and economic growth. For economic growth, fossil fuels will be relied on for the next decade or two.

The cost of engaging in one Kyoto-type greenhouse gas emission cut ranges between $100 billion and $400 billion of lost GDP annually in the United States. For comparison, consider that the Social Security Trustees estimated $407 billion was transferred to retirees in 2001. The $400 billion annual loss in GDP is approximately numerically equal to the total amount of public and private primary and secondary education spending in the United States.

A recent study from Yale University says that over the next 10 years, Kyoto-type cuts would cost about $2.7 trillion in lost GDP in the U.S.

Those costs must be increased if the target of greenhouse gas emission cuts is not one Kyoto-type agreement but 40.

Another possible target for emission cuts is the benchmark of stabilizing the atmosphere at a level of 550 parts per million of equivalent carbon dioxide concentration. That target probably will be discussed at the World Summit on sustainability in Johannesburg. Current discussions imply that developed countries like the United States would be forced to go to zero net carbon emissions by the year 2050. Beyond 2050, the United States would produce net negative carbon emissions, i.e., the United States would not only continue to emit zero net carbon, but also to begin removing carbon from the atmosphere.

In summary, little evidence supports the idea of catastrophic human-made global warming effects. Undertaking a Kyoto-type program would produce little abatement of the forecast risk, while the cost of such a program would divert resources and attention from major environmental, health, and welfare challenges.

In that regard, forecasts are made of the hypothesized impacts of projected human-made global warming effects. For example, one scenario is that hurricanes may increase because more carbon dioxide has been added to the air. This would be a serious economic impact because hurricanes are the costliest natural disaster in the U.S. But hurricanes have not increased in number or severity in the past 50 years. The cost of property damage has increased, because the cost of property has risen along with the rise in U.S. wealth--not because carbon dioxide has been added to the air.

Another scenario is that human-made global warming will see sweeping epidemics of infectious diseases like malaria in the United States. But malaria is endemic to the United States. Malaria strikes were quelled not by controlling the weather, or by controlling the amount of carbon dioxide in the air, but through increased wealth. That the United States became wealthier from fossil fuel use meant people could be protected from malaria by living inside screened or climate-controlled structures, by reducing the disease vector, mosquitoes, and by advancing medical knowledge and care. In contrast, nearly one million people die from malaria each year; many of its victims are children in Africa and other developing nations.

Diminishing the impact of natural disasters is an immediate worldwide need that rests on keeping the U.S. and world economy vibrant. Energy use, that is, fossil fuel use, helped achieve stunning progress for humankind and the environment in the 20th century. For example, life expectancy in the U.S. in the 20th century nearly doubled.

Agricultural experts estimate that technology has improved crop output. But some increase in crop growth, namely about 10 percent, may owe to the added carbon dioxide in the air, that is, the aerial fertilization effect from carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is not a toxic pollutant. It is essential to life on earth.

The latest scientific results are good news: The human influence on global climate change is small and will be slow to develop. The conclusion comes from the lack of meaningful warming trends of the low layer of air, in contradiction to the computer simulations that project a strong human effect should already be present. Those results present an opportunity to improve climate theory, computer simulations of climate, and obtain crucial measurements.

The economic consequences of not relying on science but instead on the anti-scientific Precautionary Principle, are considerable, and are not so speculative. The economic impact of significantly cutting fossil fuel use will be hard-felt, and they will be devastating to those on fixed incomes, those in developing countries, and those on the margins of the economy.

For the next several decades, fossil fuel use is key to improving the human condition. Freed from their geologic repositories, fossil fuels have been used for many economic, health, and environmental benefits. But the environmental catastrophes that have been forecast from their use have yet to be demonstrated by their critics.

Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D., is a Senior Scientist at George C. Marshall Institute and co-host of TechCentralStation.com. The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of any institutions with which she is affiliated.
Subject: this thread for online articles found re astoria?


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/26/06 3:05pm

in the conde nast traveler online magazine and i wonder how true you find it to be?

have you found an online article re astoria that you are a little skeptical about or one that you wholeheartedly agree with?

the above article is a little to rahrahrah for me. it was just after 9/11 so maybe thats the reason. maybe a few truths but i wonder what the guy really thought of it. haven't heard too many describe our night life in such glowing terms w/o bringing a few more bars into the picture and he leaves off after just one evening at the temple of doom.

waddya think?
[> Subject: what do I think?


Author:
Brewer Billy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/22/06 11:35am

I think that article is the tackiest thing I've read in a long time.
[> [> Subject: Liberal Drinking gets a political foothold in Astoria surprise, surprise, surprise1


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/24/06 1:40am

How about this for a bit more of the tic-taciness that makes up the political scene. And, if you think the sites not for real, check out the upcoming events page here on Matters to see when the local group meets!
[> [> [> Subject: splendid


Author:
BB
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/24/06 1:59pm

http://www.DrinkingLiberally.org/

Astoria, Oregon

Every Thursday, 7:30 pm onward
Cafe Union Town, 218 W Marine Dr (map)
Hosted by Jenni Bradley and Matt Sandmann,
astoriaor@drinkingliberally.org
Join the Astoria mailing list
---------------------------------------------------------------------

As if anyone in the history of this town needed stirring politics based philosophical discussions as an excuse to go get sloshed.......
[> [> [> [> Subject: Politics Mixed With Liquor And Liberals?..............


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/25/06 7:56am

Hell, what's so novel with that?

That's the way law is made around these parts as it is.

Now someone wants to prosper the Liberal agenda all together in one place drinking and talking politics?

What a dangerous prospect that is.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: not dangerous just stupid it leaves out the aa crowd a huge constigency


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/25/06 12:00pm

or atleast it leaves them out until their probation is up!

and what do you mean around these parts? it is made up that way all over the usa. its part of the "american culture" we are trying to save from being taken away if "illegals" get a foothold.

bwaahaahahaha!
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "Liberal agenda all together in one place drinking and talking "


Author:
Brewer Billy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/25/06 9:56pm

Yeah...they should take direction from Rush and only do Oxycontin...


[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Peter Hansen's collection of satire


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/26/06 3:05pm

Awww, the humor of Peter Hansen! Makes living here and now tolerable.
Subject: Osama Bin Laden Dead?


Author:
JIm
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/23/06 9:12am

I just heard this morning that there is a French Documentary that says that Osama Bin Laden might have died last month of Typhoid Fever. If it's true, and god knows how they'll find out, will it really matter? The US has spent so much time and money looking for him, making him THE big bad wolf. How many more are there out there, looking to do harm to the good ol US of A. How many more have we pissed off that are looking to do something to this country of ours?

For all we know Osamas been dead for years, and terrorism still goes on. Pick another guy to be "THE bad guy" and let's spend some more money and lives trying to get him.

Jim
[> Subject: Here's The Piece From A Jakarta Newspaper


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/23/06 9:12am

Osama bin Laden was dead of typhoid, unconfirmed report says

PARIS (AP): The French Defense Ministry on Saturday called for an internal investigation of the leak of an intelligence document that raises the possibility that Osama bin Laden may have died of typhoid in Pakistan a month ago but said the report of the deathremained unverified.

"The information defused this morning by the l'Est Republicain newspaper concerning the possible death of Osama bin Laden cannot be confirmed," a Defense Ministry statement said.

The daily newspaper for the Lorraine region in eastern France printed what it described as a confidential document from the French foreign intelligence service DGSE citing an uncorroboratedreport from Saudi secret services that the leader of the al-Qaida terror network had died.

The contents of the document, dated Sept. 21, or Thursday, were not confirmed by French or other intelligence sources. However, the DGSE transmitted the note to President Jacques Chirac and other officials, the newspaper said.

Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie "has demanded an investigation be carried out of this leak," a ministry statement said, adding that transmission of the confidential document couldrisk punishment.

Defense Ministry spokesman Jean-Francois Bureau, clarifying the statement, said that the DGSE document exists but that its contents - that bin Laden is allegedly dead - cannot be confirmed.

The DGSE, or Direction Generale des Services Exterieurs, indicated that its information came from a single source. "According to a reliable source, Saudi security services are now convinced that Osama bin Laden is dead," said the intelligence report.

There have been periodic reports of bin Laden's illness or death in recent years but none has been proven accurate.
Subject: Another legendary Astorian gone


Author:
Town Blinker
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/22/06 10:36am

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Ellis Hill 1919-2006

What a fine man and a great guy he was.




Sunset and evening star,
And one clear call for me!
And may there be no moaning at the bar,
When I put out to sea,

But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
Too full for sound and foam,
When that which drew from out the boundless deep
Turns again home.

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark;

For though from out our bourne of Time and Place
The flood may bear me far,
I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I cross the bar.

[> Subject: and chris's news for everything you use


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/21/06 2:16pm

an icon is gone with no eulogy.
[> [> Subject: Chris's News


Author:
Lonesome George
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/21/06 10:43pm

Im sure you could find somebody to say something nice about those people.....

I just don't know where you'd look, though.
[> [> [> Subject:


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/22/06 10:36am

i do know where to find lots of people to say nice things about the mestrich family, however, that wasn't the point i was talking about the business itself. how it came to be and stayed for something like 50 years and why it quietly died.
Subject: The lower classes are paying more taxes-just like the olden days


Author:
voter
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/19/06 2:02pm

A very small percentage of population calls the shots because they are rich. They pay less taxes, so we pay more. They give as much as they want to their "candidates" and we, the underclasses give comparatively, next to nothing. They get their way. Oregon is a free for certain corporations like Texas is. I just saw my first "karen Minnis has done so much for us" ad. If you want to know more go to fairelections.net.


IG POLITICAL SPENDERS GET WHAT THEY WANT FROM OREGON GOVERNMENT.
Corporations have gone from paying 18% of state income taxes in 1975 to 4% now.
Enron/Portland General Electric gave over $500,000 to candidate campaigns, got a $400 million annual rate increase, and since 1997 has charged Oregon ratepayers over $800 million for "income taxes" it never paid.
Video Poker outlets get an extra $85 million per year over the reasonable level of commissions paid elsewhere. Why? The Oregon Restaurant Association has contributed over $1,200,000 to Oregon politicians in the past 5 years.
Drug companies defeated bills that would allow the State to negotiate lower prices for drugs. They could do that, thanks to the $3 million contributed by drug and medical equipment companies in the past 3 election cycles.
[> Subject: What's needed


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/19/06 2:02pm

isn't the bullshit McCain-Feingold "reform", but a simple law.

Real simple.

So simple and fair, it would never be proposed (let alone passed) by our "representatives".

What is it?

A Constitutional Amendment that would limit the annual compensation (including salary, benefits, gifts, campaign donations, etc) of our "representatives" to the average annual income of the people in their districts.

IE: if the people in your district are stuck at minimum-wage jobs ... basically, so are you (their representative).

While this might result in a few "representatives" receiving higher pay, the majority of them would face pay cuts. It would also allow "Joe Sixpack" to run for election without facing the overwhelming obstacle of raising millions of dollars to compete with an incumbent.
Subject: Have the college build a sports complex for itself that the high school can use


Author:
sports fan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/18/06 11:31am

Snagged off freel's site: "The school district will have to convince it's taxpayers that moving a community icon six miles out of town makes sense and will reap unquestionable benefits, and the College will have to make a strong case with all voters that even with this apparent gimme to Astoria it is still CLATSOP community college and not ASTORIA community college."

Its amazing how much difference wording makes. The fair complex is BARELY beyond the four mile marker on highway 202, which begins marking miles for highway 202 at the Roundabout. This places the fair grounds at a MERE two miles outside of the city limits and a short seven minutes from the middle of town.

It is ironic though, that the town is moving its high school team outside the city limits and keeping the college inside.

How about this. Have the college build a sports complex that can be used by the schools, so that, even if the college is just a two year college, it can have sports teams again like it did back in the day -like chemeketa and some of the other two years currently have. We have a lot of great local sports talents that are going to waste, and they could use an extra year of jr. college and it would help convince people go for the college's location and a new sports complex.
[> Subject: yeah yeah yeah and free wireless and i vote for it


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 10:34am

i love it. yessss. a college level baseball and softball team and womens and mens basketball. love it love it love it. its what we need. what happened to those programs anyways? why does longview and chemeketa have it and even tillamook but not us? thats lammo. if we want to be a great little college again we need our sports teams. someone with clout needs to push this. wheres that one guy taggart gone to? oh yeah did that chick spank him too hard and chase him away?
[> Subject: on freels site comments must be approved on their forum


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 10:54am

before they let it be published on their forum site they have to be approved! unreal.
[> Subject: KAST still hasn't published this comment guess it doesn't meet their


Author:
sports fan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/ 1/06 1:55pm

approval. Not a very good community forum if the community's ideas can't be heard.
[> Subject: Maybe It's Time For A County Sports Complex....


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/ 2/06 11:00am

Similar to 'Sprinker Arena/Rewcreation Complex in Tacoma, Washington

Visit Sprinker Arena/Sports Complex
[> [> Subject: It is it is


Author:
sports fan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/ 4/06 3:42pm

[> Subject: Open Forum Letter from Paul Putkey


Author:
debatable
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/14/06 5:40pm

Letter: Security concern
I had the opportunity to attend the recent public meeting in Astoria regarding the proposed relocation of Clatsop Community College to John Warren Field.

I learned several things: there are good honest citizens supporting this move; a wonderful design has been put together; many fine reasons were outlined for the relocation; John Warren Field is the only site that is being developed; and substantial resources, financial and human, have been committed towards this goal.

What has not been completely realized, with the best of all intentions, is that the college will not be able to provide a suitable replacement for Warren Field. The simple fact is that level, stable land with suitable drainage, and large enough to support a football facility, is a rare commodity in or near Astoria.

The proposed site, bordered by Oregon Highway 202, Walluski Loop and the Walluski River, is a firm pasture in August, but a very robust wetland in December. It is designated by Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) as flood zone "A." This is not a model location for a sports complex.

Construction in wetlands and flood zone "A" can be very problematic. Yes, civil engineers can do anything, they can float a concrete base for an all-weather field on piles, and they can design an active drainage system to keep the area nearly dry. All it takes is money, time and a robust maintenance program.

What is not discussed about this site is long-term maintenance. Wetlands and flood zones will always try to reclaim themselves. To preserve any structures from water damage will require vigilant monitoring of the drainage system and security. Yes, security. This field will not be under the watchful eye of the Astoria Police Department and the townspeople of Astoria, as is Warren Field. The Walluski Loop can be a lonely area.

Who is going to pay any additional maintenance and security for a facility located at the Fairgrounds. Will the school district be able to fund it? It is clear, even with the recently passed levy, the fairgrounds' resources are thin, and cannot and should not take on any additional responsibilities for maintenance or security for a sport complex.

And what if, down the line, the Walluski River floods this plain, warping the football field's foundation, or unanticipated settling occurs. Who will pay for repairs?

There is a perfect place in Astoria that is not a wetland nor in a flood zone, with adequate drainage, close to the heart of town, and it's called John Warren Field. I can understand and appreciated both the excitement of a new college campus and football field, but at what cost? The Astoria School District does not have to give up Warren Field, it can keep it and a 79-year tradition alive. The college can develop another site. The former waste transfer facility has great possibilities.

I can understand the pressure public officials will be under to move the college to Warren Field. So it will be up to the voters of Clatsop County to ensure the best decision is made. Since I believe the Warren Field site is the only site the college board supports, and there is no suitable replacement site for John Warren Field, I will vote no on the college bond measure. I urge the voters of Clatsop County to do the same.

PAUL PUTKEY
Warrenton
[> [> Subject: Just use other side of road which doesn't flood -problem solved


Author:
debatable
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/14/06 5:53pm

True, that field floods. However, the field right below the complex on the same side of the road does not flood and should the river ever reach it there will be far worse problems to worry about than a flooded football field.

A "lonely area"? For god's sake it is four miles from the Roundabout! If one goes extremely slowly it takes seven and a half minutes to downtown. It is right next door to the forestry station. A security risk to put a football field there? Now that is a bit of a stretch! If you don't like the idea then fine but this argument is not a defendable one.
[> Subject: H ow About Tongue Point As An Optional Location?


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/15/06 11:18am

The place is just sitting there bascially waiting for some input of wise thinking to make it work, right on Highway 30, ties to College, Job Corp, etc..
[> [> Subject: for the college or the football field?


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/15/06 9:32pm

[> [> [> Subject: New Stadium/Sports Complex...Second Option For 'The College'


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/16/06 5:06pm

Now that you mention it, I could live with 'The College' there as the second option should it be necessary but, truth is for me, if they don't base the bond referendum specifically for Warren Field and nowhere else, I will not vote for it at all and I think you will find that many are thinking the same way.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Plenty of Room...Not Isolated


Author:
<img src="http://fotohole.homestead.com/tonguepoint.jpg">
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/17/06 9:24am

[> [> [> [> [> Subject:


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/17/06 9:27pm

[> [> [> [> Subject: So, you are actually proposing this for a sports complex?


Author:
me
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/17/06 9:31pm

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: I Am Suggesting.....


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/18/06 8:20am

...that it would be a viable location for a 'Sports Complex' as opposed to 'The Fairgrounds'

What do you think?
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Or.....


Author:
Village Idiot
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09/18/06 8:51am

If Astoria is ever to have any sort of active port facility, which may be a long shot, Tongue point would be the place to do it. Trains would not have to go through town disrupting the trolly, condo dwellers, and impeading those who wish to cross the tracks to get to and from boats, 39th street complex, Pier 11 ect. The port should work out a swap for its west end holdings to obtain Tongue point. Perhaps a college or sports facility would fit into the present port site.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Absolutely!!


Author:
Patrick McGee ('The Port's' Lack Of Vision)
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Date Posted: 09/18/06 11:31am

The Port should have wrested this property away from DSL a long time ago but, obviously they (Port Staff and Commission), are so intent on turning 'The Port Proper' into a P.U.D.-Type 'Business Park' they clearly can't see its (Tongue Point Industrial Area, at least), potential as a part of Their/Our inventory.
Subject: wmd


Author:
rod serling
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Date Posted: 09/13/06 4:41pm

"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men.

"For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own -- for the children, and the children yet unborn."
[> Subject: and the rockets red glare


Author:
gene roddenberry
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Date Posted: 09/12/06 10:36pm

if the reason the terrorists attacked was jealousy of our freedoms, as purported by the current regime, and their desire to curtail it, they have won have they not?
[> [> Subject: One step forward, 3 steps back


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 09/13/06 11:41am

Asked: if the reason the terrorists attacked was jealousy of our freedoms, as purported by the current regime, and their desire to curtail it, they have won have they not?

Answer: Yes, there is less freedom in America since 9/11/2001. But there's more freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention that Libya has ceased all support for terrorist operations.

So, if they did attack to "curtail our freedoms" (which, btw, I don't buy) ... they got a small step forward, and 3 steps back.

-

Btw - Most of the freedoms curtailed in America were already losing ground. Of course, it was still all going on in the name of "the children" and "safety".
[> [> [> Subject: wake-up wally!!!!!!!!!!!


Author:
mohamet
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Date Posted: 09/13/06 4:41pm

Afghanistan is tradionally a lawless (free) country.

More freedom in Iraq? How so?

Freedom to be afraid to have a baby for fear of birth defects? Freedom to live without the presence of family friends and relatives due to murder by Americans? Freedom to watch those who are left to die of cancer? Yes, the freedom to watch your children die from leukemia, tumors and rampant diseases. Doctors and professional people that could help are either being killed or escaping. Freedom to change your name so that it doesn't reflect your religious affiliation? Freedom to pay for sparse power delivery and scrounge for clean water? Girls are free from access to formal education now. Freedom to expect death at any moment when dissent is attempted? In fact the expectation of death is usually free from the knowing from whence and where it comes. Freedom to live under the constant cruel mental state of uncertainty. Freedom to say goodbye to your beloved country to become a refugee. And freedom to hate us if their prayers don't relieve them of this ingredient that may breed future enemies of the american people.
Subject: Wireless at County Offices


Author:
Dave
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Date Posted: 09/ 8/06 12:50am

Does anyone know what the deal is with the wireless stuff at the County buildings? There are signs all over the place saying free WiFi access.

Is it for real?
[> Subject: Wireless


Author:
Josh
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Date Posted: 09/ 7/06 4:41pm

Yes, it is for real and it is free. The county has T & C with standard filters but it was provided as part of the DA's office budget request (that was approved) to facilitate wireless for lawyers and citizens in the courthouse.
[> [> Subject: if the college wants approval then they get wireless countywide


Author:
melissa
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Date Posted: 09/ 8/06 12:50am

tall buildings in town can be relay towers as will as the hill.
Subject: Remodeling in Astoria


Author:
Dave
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Date Posted: 09/ 3/06 2:08pm

LMAO on this remodeling blog tonight. HGTV should film this guy before he kills himself!

www.astoriafixer.blogspot.com
[> Subject: too funny thanks for the laugh


Author:
melissa
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Date Posted: 08/30/06 10:28am

brilliant. i see that the powers that be added his blog too!
[> Subject: Testing after update


Author:
Clatsop County Matters
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Date Posted: 09/ 3/06 2:08pm

Try here

Blogspot links now appear to work.
Subject: A Point We All Maybe Should Ponder......


Author:
Patrick McGee
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Date Posted: 09/ 3/06 1:50pm

A guy gets on a plane and finds himself seated next to a cute
blonde. He immediately turns to her and makes his move.

"You know," he says, "I've heard that flights will go quicker
if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger. So
let's talk."

The blonde, who had just opened her book, closes it slowly
and says to the guy, "What would you like to discuss?"

"Oh, I don't know," says the guy, smiling. "How about nuclear
power?

"OK," says the blonde. "That could be an interesting topic.
But let me ask you a question first: A horse, a cow and a deer
all eat the same stuff -- grass. Yet the deer excretes little pellets,
the cow turns out a flat patty and the horse produces muffins of
dried poop. Why do you suppose that is?"

The guy is dumbfounded. Finally he replies, "I haven't the slightest
idea."

"So tell me," says the blonde, "How is it that you feel qualified to
discuss nuclear power when you don't know shit?"
[> Subject: o excrement


Author:
nucking futz
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Date Posted: 09/ 3/06 1:50pm

a ruminant is an animal that chews the cud, cud being defined by the shorter oxford dictionary as "the food which a ruminating animal brings back into its mouth from its first stomach and chews at leisure." in ruminants, the stomach consists of several compartments; to be precise, the true digestive stomach (the abomasum) is preceded by several large compartments, reticulum, rumen and omasum. the rumen serves as a large vat in which the food, mixed with saliva, undergoes extensive fermentation - "a slow decomposition of organic substances induced by micro- organisms". large numbers of both bacteria and protozoa are found in the rumen. these micro-organisms are responsible for the breakdown of cellulose, the breakdown products becoming available for further digestion. the fermentation products (mostly acetic, propionic, and butyric acids) are absorbed and utilized; carbon dioxide and methane (CH4) formed in the fermentation process escape by belching (eructation). rumination, evident as "chewing the cud", involves the regurgitation and re-chewing of undigested fibrous material, which is then swallowed again. as the food re-enters the rumen it undergoes further fermentation. broken-down food particles gradually pass to the other parts of the stomach where they are subjected to the usual digestive juices in the abomasum (or "fourth stomach" - which corresponds to the digestive stomach of other mammals).

cellulose digestion in many non-ruminant mammals is also aided by micro- organisms. in some non-ruminant herbivores, the stomach is large and has several compartments, and the digestion is very similar to that of ruminants, save for the absence of the regurgitation and re-chewing of food which is the distinctive feature of the ruminant. in other herbivorous mammals, the major fermentation of cellulose takes place in a large diverticulum from the intestine, the caecum.

microbial fermentation in the caecum is similar to fermentation in the rumen, but the rumen has two definite advantages over the caecum. one is that rumen fermentation takes place in the anterior portion of the gastrointestinal tract, so that the products of digestion can pass through the long intestine for further digestion and absorption. the other advantage of the ruminant arrangement is that the mechanical breakdown of the food can be carried much further; coarse and undigested particles can be regurgitated and masticated over and over again. this difference is clearly visible if we compare the faeces of cattle (ruminants) and horses (non-ruminants). the faeces of the former are a well ground-up smooth mass with few large visible fragments, whereas those of the latter have coarse fragments of the food intact in the faeces.

the four sections of a deer's stomach are the rumen, the reticulum, the omasum, and the abomasum. first, the food goes into the rumen which stores 8 to 9 quarts of unchewed food and acts as a fermentation vat. most of the digestion occurs in this area of the stomach. deer depend on billions of microorganisms that live in its stomach. these microorganisms break down the fibers, cellulose, and other basic plant components, and convert them into materials that can be used by the deer's digestive system. the lining of the rumen has small spaghetti-like fringes called papillae, which vary in length from 3/8 to 1/2 inch. over 40 percent of a deer's energy is derived from the acids absorbed through the papillae and the walls of the rumen.

after the deer has filled its paunch, it lies down in a secluded place to chew its cud. after chewing its cud for awhile, the deer re-swallows the food, which then passes to the second portion of the stomach, the reticulum. the reticulum has a lining that looks like a honeycomb. the reticulum holds the food in a clump, which can grow to the size of a softball. the main function of the reticulum is to filter out any foreign material. after about sixteen hours, the food passes to the third chamber, the omasum, where intensive digestion and absorption take place. the omasum's lining has forty flaps of varying heights, which absorb most of the water from the food.

the last compartment, the abomasum, has a very smooth, slippery lining with about a dozen elongated folds. the abomasum produces acid to break down the food pieces for easier absorption of nutrients. the food eventually passes through 67 feet of intestines, where most of the liquid is absorbed, leaving an impacted mass of undigested particles. these particles are passed out as excrement. a deer goes to the bathroom" an average of 13 times every 24 hours. usually 65 percent of the food will be used by the animal, and 5 percent is lost as methane gas, 5 percent as urine, and 25 percent as feces in the form of pellets.
Subject: Anybody know who ...


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 09/ 2/06 11:20am

George W Carver was? How about Booker T Washington? Or Benjamin Banneker? How about Benjamin Bradley?

Gee ... Look at all those blacks who overcame cultural prejudices, including former slavery, to gain high levels of education.

Giving lie to the theory it takes multiple generations to overcome a lack of education.

'nough said.
[> Subject: actually the fact that you could name so few proves my point


Author:
melissa
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Date Posted: 09/ 1/06 12:38pm

'nuff said
[> [> Subject: I could name more ...


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 09/ 1/06 1:26pm

Those were just the first 4 a quick search on the internet found. Why don't you try a search, and see how many there have been? Here's a hint, there's a bunch listed at Black History websites.

To prove your point, you'll have to provide a list of blacks who ... despite their best efforts to get educated ... remained uneducated because of their race.

I'll await your list.
[> Subject: A TimeLine On N.A.A.C.P.


Author:
Patrick McGee (Many Founders..Rich White Folk)
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Date Posted: 09/ 2/06 11:20am

1909
On February 12th The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People was founded by a multiracial group of activists, who answered "The Call," in the New York City, NY. They initially called themselves the National Negro Committee.


FOUNDERS
Ida Wells-Barnett, W.E.B. DuBois, Henry Moscowitz, Mary White Ovington, Oswald Garrison Villiard, William English Walling led the "Call" to renew the struggle for civil and political liberty.


1910
In the face of intense adversity, the NAACP begins its legacy of fighting legal battles addressing social injustice with the Pink Franklin case, which involved a Black farmhand, who unbeknowingly killed a policeman in self-defense when the officer broke into his home at 3 a.m. to arrest him on a civil charge. After losing at the Supreme Court, the following year the renowned NAACP official Joel Spingarn and his brother Arthur start a concerted effort to fight such cases.


1913
President Woodrow Wilson officially introduces segregation into the Federal Government. Horrified that President would sanction such a policy, the NAACP launched a public protest.


1915
The NAACP organizes a nationwide protest D.W. Griffiths racially-inflammatory and bigoted silent film, "Birth of a Nation."


1917
In Buchanan vs. Warley, the Supreme Court has to concede that states can not restrict and officially segregate African Americans into residential districts. Also, the NAACP fights and wins the battle to enable African Americans to be commissioned as officers in World War I. Six hundred officers are commissioned, and 700,000 register for the draft..


1918
After persistent pressure by the NAACP, President Woodrow Wilson finally makes a public statement against lynching.




1920 - 1922 Top


1920
To ensure that everyone, especially the Klan, knew that the NAACP would not be intimidated, the annual conference was held in Atlanta, considered one of the most active Klan areas.


1922
In an unprecedented move, the NAACP places large ads in major newspapers to present the facts about lynching.


1930 - 1939 Top


1930
The first of successful protests by the NAACP against Supreme Court justice nominees is launched against John Parker, who officially favored laws that discriminated against African Americans.


1935
NAACP lawyers Charles Houston and Thurgood Marshall win the legal battle to admit a black student to the University of Maryland.


1939
After the Daughters of the Revolution barred acclaimed soprano Marian Anderson from performing at their Constitution Hall, the NAACP moved her concert to the Lincoln Memorial, where over 75,000 people attended.


1940 - 1948 Top


1941
During World War II, the NAACP leads the effort to ensure that President Franklin Roosevelt orders a non-discrimination policy in war-related industries and federal employment.


1945
NAACP starts a national outcry when Congress refuses to fund their own Federal Fair Roosevelt Employment Practices Commission.


1946
The NAACP wins the Morgan vs. Virginia case, where the Supreme Court bans states from having laws that sanction segregated facilities in interstate travel by train and bus.


1948
The NAACP was able to pressure President Harry Truman to sign an Executive Order banning discrimination by the Federal government.


1950 - 1955 Top


1954
After years of fighting segregation in public schools, under the leadership of Special Counsel Thurgood Marshall, the NAACP wins one of its greatest legal victories in Brown vs. the Board of Education.


1955
NAACP member Rosa Parks is arrested and fined for refusing to give up her seat on a segregated bus in Montgomery, Alabama. Noted as the catalyst for the largest grassroots civil rights movement, that would be spearheaded through the collective efforts of the NAACP, SCLC and other Black organizations.


1960 - 1979 Top


1960
In Greensboro, North Carolina, members of the NAACP Youth Council launch a series of non-violent sit-ins at segregated lunch counters. These protests eventually lead to more than 60 stores officially desegregating their counters.


1963
After one of his many successful mass rallies for civil rights, NAACP's first Field Director, Medgar Evers is assassinated in front of his house in Jackson, Mississippi. Five months later, President John Kennedy was also assassinated.


1963
NAACP pushes for the passage of the Equal Employment Opportunity Act.


1964
U.S. Supreme Court ends the eight year effort of Alabama officials to ban NAACP activities. And 55 years after the NAACP's founding, Congress finally passes the Civil Rights Act.


1965
The Voting Rights Act is passed. Amidst threats of violence and efforts of state and local governments, the NAACP still manages to register more than 80,000 voters in the Old South.


1979
The NAACP initiates the first bill ever signed by a governor that allows voter registration in high schools. Soon after, 24 states follow suit.


1980 - 1989 Top


1981
The NAACP leads the effort to extend The Voting Rights Act for another 25 years. To cultivate economic empowerment, the NAACP establishes the Fair Share Program with major corporations across the country.


1982
NAACP registers more than 850,000 voters, and through its protests and the support of the Supreme Court, prevents President Reagan from giving a tax-break to the racially segregated Bob Jones University.


1985
The NAACP leads a massive anti-apartheid rally in New York.


1987
NAACP launches campaign to defeat the nomination of Judge Robert Bork to the Supreme Court. As a result, he garners the highest negative vote ever recorded for a 1989 Silent March of over 100,000 to protest U.S. Supreme Court nominee.


1989
Silent March of over 100,000 to protest U.S. Supreme Court decisions that have reversed many of the gains made against discrimination.


1990 - 1999 Top


1991
When avowed racist and former Klan leader David Duke runs for US Senate in Louisiana, the NAACP launches a voter registration campaign that yields a 76 percent turn-out of Black voters to defeat Duke.


1992
The number of Fair Share Program corporate partners has risen to 70 and now represents billions of dollars in business.


1995
Over thirty years after the assassination of NAACP civil rights activist, Medgar Evers - his widow Myrlie, is elected Chairman of the NAACP's Board of Directors. The following year, the Kweisi Mfume leaves Congress to become the NAACPs President and CEO.


1997
In response to the pervasive anti-affirmative action legislation occurring around the country, the NAACP launches the Economic Reciprocity Program... And in response to increased violence among our youth, the NAACP starts the "Stop The Violence, Start the Love' campaign.


1998
Supreme Court Demonstration and arrests


2000 - Present Top


2000
TV Diversity Agreements. Retirement of the Debt and first six years of a budget surplus. Largest Black Voter Turnout in 20 years


2000
Great March. January 17, in Columbia, South Carolina attended by over 50,000 to protest the flying of the Confederate Battle Flag. This is the largest civil rights demonstration ever held in the South to date.


2001
Cincinnati Riots. Development of 5 year Strategic Plan.
Under the leadership of Chairman Bond and President Mfume, the NAACP continues to thrive, and with the help of everyone - regardless of race - will continue to do so into the next millennium...
Subject: Did you hear what I just heard?


Author:
Carrie
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Date Posted: 08/31/06 1:14pm

I just heard the most shocking and blantantly racist ad on KAST that I have heard in the last decade! I am truly shocked. It mocks the American Indian and I haven't any idea what point they were even trying to make. Some sort of parlay with Chief Silver Hair, who speaks with a Hollywood Indian voice of "How" and "wampum" and "they" (whoever the chief represents) have hostages that they will release three at a time after the audience "bends over, drops their pants, and grabs their ankles"!

Insulting our own cultures to make what point? Why do we always have to insult anyone to make a point? Why do I even try to listen to KAST? I'd love to know why they ran this ad, it led into Rush Limbaugh so maybe that in itself is the answer. What a blight on "excellence". If he an example of the criteria being met no wonder our school scores are so low.
[> Subject: You make me laugh ...


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 1:43pm

Quote: Why do we always have to insult anyone to make a point? ... it led into Rush Limbaugh so maybe that in itself is the answer. What a blight on "excellence". If he an example of the criteria being met no wonder our school scores are so low.


ROFL!
[> [> Subject: shame, on me!


Author:
Carrie
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 1:49pm

crap! No one was supposed to notice that!

All of a sudden the extra "check for errors before posting" button is missing, and as soon as that went out I wanted it back. SIGH! So, that's why people post anonymously!
[> [> [> Subject: You have to use ...


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 1:59pm

... the PREVIEW button, instead of hitting SEND then APPROVE.
[> [> [> [> Subject: I, MOI, have to self monitor?


Author:
Carrie
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:21pm

Double crap!
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: No, just do what most people do ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:30pm

... just post away, and gleefully ignore any "hypocrisy". Then, when caught, argue about it.

;)
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Look -over there, bright shiny object!


Author:
Carrie
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:58pm

And, the EIB guy isn't a real person anyways so who am I hurting!

Like that?

;P
[> Subject: Political Correctness was thrown out with the bathwater


Author:
jos
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Date Posted: 08/25/06 1:48pm

Teacher in Colarado suspended for displaying flags of other nations


Blacks to the back of the bus---- moms will loose their thunder thighs if they play more with their kids (government ad)

COUSHATTA -- Nine black children attending Red River Elementary School were directed last week to the back of the school bus by a white driver who designated the front seats for white children.

The situation has outraged relatives of the black children who have filed a complaint with school officials.


Superintendent Kay Easley will meet with the family members in her office this morning.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People also is considering filing a formal charge with the U.S. Department of Justice. NAACP District Vice President James Panell, of Shreveport, said he would apprise Justice attorneys of the situation this week. He's considering asking for an investigation into the bus incident and other aspects of the school system's operations, including pupil-teacher ratio as it relates to the numbers of white and black children, along with a breakdown of the numbers of black and white teachers employed.

"If the smoke is there, then there's probably fire somewhere else," Panell said in a phone interview from New Orleans. "At this point, it is extremely alarming. We fought that battle 50 years ago, and we won. Why is this happening again?"

Easley would not comment much on the allegations Wednesday, saying it is a personnel issue. She acknowledged that she has investigated the claim. And she confirmed that the bus driver did not run her route Wednesday, nor would she today.

Asked if the driver would work for the rest of the year, Easley said, "I'm not going to answer the questions. "» You're getting all that you're going to get from me. I'm sorry."

Red River Elementary School Principal Jamie Lawrence tried to rectify the seating situation when it was brought to her attention. But it was ultimately handled at the Central Office, Patricia Sessoms said.

Sessoms aunt, Iva Richmond, is the mother of two of the children, ages 14 and 15, and foster parent to three others, ages 5, 6 and 10. Janice Williams, who is the mother of the other four children, is Richmond's neighbor. All nine children catch the bus at a stop on Ashland Road.

Sessoms will join Richmond and Williams in their meeting with Easley today. Sessoms said they would ask for bus driver Delores Davis' immediate termination. Davis, who originates her bus route in Martin, has called Richmond to apologize, Sessoms said. A message left on Davis' answering machine late Wednesday afternoon was not immediately returned.

After Richmond and Williams filed complaints with the School Board, Transportation Supervisor Jerry Carlisle asked Davis to make seat assignments for her passengers, Sessoms said.

"But she still assigned the black children to the back of the bus," she added.

And the nine children had to share only two seats, meaning the older children had to hold the younger ones in their laps.

A new solution reached Monday by School Board officials has a black bus driver driving across town to pick up the nine black children.

"I think the whole school system needs to be reviewed in Red River Parish," Sessoms said.

Sessoms, who has two children at Red River Elementary, said she has no problems with her bus driver. "I have a wonderful bus driver," she added. Sessoms' request to have her young children sit near the front because of their ages was granted.

School Board member Gene Longino said Wednesday evening that he had not heard about the situation involving the nine children.

"I don't know anything about that. "» Until something formally comes to the School Board members through the superintendent, we don't know the details," Longino said.

School Board President Ricky Cannon was at work Wednesday evening and unavailable for comment. Board member J.B. McElwee also was not at home. Calls to the homes of Cleve Miller, Kassandria Wells White, Karen Womack and Jessie Webber were not answered.
[> [> Subject: Wait a second ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:06pm

If I read the article correctly, the district now has another driver on that route ... but they ALSO have a special bus driving just for those 9 kids.

Typical gov't idiocy.

And isn't it ironic that the NAACP is throwing a fuss about this ... which they "fought that battle 50 years ago" ... yet they actually are simultaneously encouraging a return to segregated schools? Only this time, it seems, segregation is needed to help blacks learn better.

"Why is this happening again?" Perhaps because you're sending out mixed messages.
[> [> [> Subject: Walter doesn't even like the NAACP-I wonder why?


Author:
lee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 4:55pm


"If I read the article correctly, the district now has another driver on that route ... but they ALSO have a special bus driving just for those 9 kids.

Typical gov't idiocy.

And isn't it ironic that the NAACP is throwing a fuss about this ... which they "fought that battle 50 years ago" ... yet they actually are simultaneously encouraging a return to segregated schools? Only this time, it seems, segregation is needed to help blacks learn better.

"Why is this happening again?" Perhaps because you're sending out mixed messages."
[> [> [> [> Subject: children who were singled out by racists are in danger!!!


Author:
lee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 4:57pm

[> [> [> [> Subject: Walter's Problem


Author:
chiller
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 4:58pm

someone told him it was funded by the government and they weren't allowed to use their minds.
[> [> [> [> Subject: I pity you, lee


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:20am

The psychological term for what you may be suffering from is "Projection". IE; displacing your own racist tendencies on someone else.

If the NAACP and other groups encourage segregation nowadays, because "blacks have different needs" ... but then say that "blacks should be treated equally" ... how are they not sending mixed messages?
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Pity me for something other than seeing thru your racist reasoning


Author:
lee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 12:04am

Wanting your children to not be humiliated on a school bus because of their skin pigment and being free to choose social and educational situations for them is not "sending mixed messages" to clear thinking persons.

Do you think blacks all think alike too?
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Anybody know who W.E.B. Dubois was?


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 8:00am

Anybody know?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: yeah


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 11:36am

Author, The Souls of Black Folks
Throughout the first half of the 20th Century, W.E.B. DuBois continued to work as an author, lecturer and educator. His teachings were an important influence on the Civil Rights Movement of the'50s and'60s. Ironically, DuBois died on the eve of the historic march on Washington in 1963. Actor and playwright Ossie Davis read an announcement of his death to the 250,000 people gathered the next day at the Washington Monument.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: And Also, One Of The Founding Fathers Of N.A.A.C.P....


Author:
Patrick McGee
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/29/06 8:28am

And he also said;(Paraphrasing)"The Negro in America will never progress so long as he remains a prisoner to his history."

Sadly and ironically isn't that what N.A.A.C.P. and other like groups continues to perpetuate to this day?
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Sending mixed messages


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 8:04am

Quote: ... being free to choose social and educational situations for them ...

Lee - How is saying blacks should be educated separately (segregated) from whites NOT racism?

So, out of one side of their mouth, the NAACP endorses racism (segregated schools) - while from the other side, they decry racism (blacks at back of bus). THAT, dear lee, IS a mixed message.

btw, in case you don't remember, the SCOTUS (ruling against segregated schools) said there's no such thing as "separate but equal" - rather than "separate but equal is unConstitutional".
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Seperate but equal


Author:
Sandy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 1:54pm

Sigh, stop it, Walter, you are deliberately being obtuse. Think about the children called "brilliant" who are white and the elite parents want them to have a better education and not be "held back" by all of those masses who are "dumbing down" the system for you and your friends and name the program a high school exceptional ability program. suddenly it makes sense, huh? half of those classes take place outside of the normal high school, it just isn't advertised.

Are those kids being treated equally? Its our tax dollars educating them. How come they get the special program? They want it? No, I've talked to them, they have to take them or their parents cut them off. So, they get a much better education at our expense.

The black community recognizes that they have some unique factors that need to be addressed in an educational system that addresses those factors. Education needs to be conducted in an atmosphere conducive to promoting the best possible outcome. Fair? At some point someone will know what that means. Until then each community fights for what they think is fairest for themselves.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not being obtuse ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/29/06 11:42am

You're talking programs that exclude on the basis of merit - IE: education. Sure it's "elitism", or a "meritocracy". But it isn't racism. People of ALL races can, and have, gotten into such programs.

A "blacks only" school excludes on the basis of race. Which IS racism.

Now, if the blacks want to say "Our children have special needs that aren't being met by normal school programs ... so we're having these programs to meet those needs" that's fine AS LONG AS the programs are open to EVERYONE who meets those needs - not just on the basis of race.

If you think there are any "whites only" programs out there, funded by tax dollars, show me.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: your either blind or stupid


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/29/06 9:43pm

but i dont think so i think you choose to be ignorant of others suffering its easier that way.

i guess they could say its for people who have come from a history of slaves whose people don't know how to cultivate an atmosphere conducive to educational excellence because that is something that takes generations to learn. or are you trying to tell me that having generations of people attending/completing high school means nothing? that we should not aim to have a nation of people who -generation after generation -complete high school? or at least grade school? if that is a goal to what purpose? what benefit does multigenerational education have?

if there is a benefit to a group of people to have multigenerations complete their education dont you think that a group of people that were deliberately deprived of that multigenerational education while other classes/groups were allowed to excellerate their educate might cause that group of people harm economically as well as how they felt about themselves in a society in which that took place? do you really think that a mere 25 years of affirmative action makes up for the discrepancy?

i think we want the strongest country possible. i think it doesnt have anything to do with racism of black people i think a lot of that has to happen before any white person has to suffer.

you want to know one single educational thing that is for whites only? read this and tell me if you recognize anything?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I thought so ... you can't name one.


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 8:45am

What I hear you saying is blacks need their own schools to overcome the fact that their ancestors were slaves.

Okay, then only descendants of slaves could attend those schools. Which would leave some blacks (from the North) out. And would admit non-blacks ... including whites. Or did you forget about the slavery of other races, including whites?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: like i thought no courage to read the article - ALL THE REST ARE FOR WHITES ONLY IDIOT


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 10:19am

i didnt forget the *other* slaves walter. however i guarantee you the moment their indenturement was over they were not stygmatized so dont be "obtuse" (thanks sandy). they had societies waiting for them. their skin color didnt scream what they had been. it didnt call for them to sit at the back behind "where they belong"! you are a racist walter. a white bigotted racist who has the power but hasnt the courage to help one whole part of our country advance themselves who would rather make sure they stay down so he can feel better. yeah its all their own faults it was their ancestors that was slaves. will you know what my grandmother's mother was born in 1862 which would have made her old enough to be born a slave. that isnt a ancestor walter thats family thats stuff people sit around the table and talk about. thats stuff people form their families' knowledge base pride and sense of well being around. thats how you know who you are and where your going in life. if you dont have it you get awfully lonely and start looking for that group that you can form a knowledge base from. your not a sociologist walter. your barely a human being with human compassion. yeah you can say *they* should be past it by now but if you do say it you only show everyone here that you didnt read the article. racism alive and well in astoria er clatsop county. does it matter?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Riiiiiiight.


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 11:09am

Quote: however i guarantee you the moment their indenturement was over they were not stygmatized so dont be "obtuse" (thanks sandy). they had societies waiting for them. their skin color didnt scream what they had been. it didnt call for them to sit at the back behind "where they belong"!


This shows how little you know of American history.

The rest of your post isn't even worth addressing, as it's obviously nothing more than the spittle-spewing ranting of someone who can't debate rationally. As such, I take my leave of you, before you wind up in the hospital with a seizure.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Thanks, Adolf.


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/30/06 10:56am

"multigeneration"? (And I stopped reading the article, as soon as it took that point of view - because I knew it was bullshit.)

What you're talking about here is EUGENICS.

"We must breed (it takes generations) a smarter black person".

Funny how you believe blacks can't overcome lack of education in one generation.

As I said ... "projection". You believe I'm racist because I believe blacks are capable of succeeding in the same way everybody else has. But you aren't racist because you believe they're so "incompetent" that they need special help.

Whatever.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: walter thanks his god


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/31/06 1:14pm

i wasnt talking eugenics i was talking education which you know nothing about. yes i believe blacks can succeed in the exact same way everyone else has which if you knew anything at all about the inculturation of immigrants to our country you wouldnt have made such an ignorant statement. 90% of them came here willingly not in chains to families already inculturated. they lived with these families in already selfcontained communities. they attended local schools run by their religious or cultural affiliation. their ability for a higher education was assertained and scholarships given out through the affiliations of these societies and clubs that their families belonged to, generation after genration after geneeration. many of them imported stright from europe and asia. yeah, your right, i do think the black race can do it just like the rest of us. except 90% of them didnt come here willingly they were dragged here in chains. no societies or families waiting for them. no lutheran church with its kindergarten no sons of norway with its jobs no masons with their scholarships. the ku klux klan was here. whips chains and breeding for the best field hands awaited them. and even once they were freed there werent enough schools set up they were freed into an economically raped country they went from nothing into less than nothing. no i do not think any race can overcome in one generation what it took another race five generations to get. only a selfish bigot thinks they can. you refuse to not only share the wealth but you refuse to admit how you obtained yours on the backs of others. you are not only a coward but a weak coward. it takes strength to admit how wealth was won how mistakes were made and how to now help those who once helped us. read your precious founding fathers documents and journals. the decisive reason they allowed slavery to continue was because they needed an economic base. and the south needed to keep these people ignorant of their rights as human beings so they were denied an education. in humiliation for what USA allowed to be done to them we have turned out backs on their sufferring to this day. blaming the victim. you deserve this country exactly how it is walter. people like you built it on the backs of others and refuse to now give back to those people. well give backs might hurt a little but pay backs are hell. people like you walter will regret the day they didnt willingly give back to all of the people this country stole its wealth from. your the hitler walter. narrow minded thin scope of vision looking to blame the decline of this country on someone else when its really inside of you. the article took responsibility for acknowledging where and who his life of privilege was due to. you quit reading because if it was full of bullshit it was only a reflection of what your full of. you could be strong or weak and you choose weak and igorant.
[> [> [> Subject: Hate crimes


Author:
dixie republican'ts
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 5:05pm

If I read the article correctly, the district now has another driver on that route ... but they ALSO have a special bus driving just for those 9 kids
---

It's probably a good bet the next driver will be a racist also.
Don't you think? Some of these people have been chomping at the bit to let their true selves take aim and shoot.
[> [> Subject: Power of the written word


Author:
Carrie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:20pm

I wonder what actually happened in each one of these circumstances? I am so sure "excellent" reporting occurred so we are getting the whole picture, eh?

Do you think, with all the blogs that are out there, that we are getting a more balanced picture of what is happening locally? How many of the local blogs do you read after reading the Daily A? Or do you bother reading it any more?

I was doing a read through the blogs linked on this site and found that Ms. Price had removed Astoria Rust from her blog role! Hmmm. Too bad. I think that she, herself, got a story wrong a while back with Sue Davies and wasn't convinced of it until the DA editor gave her some proof. How can she be upset with Astoria Rust? Has she provided him with "evidence" to the contrary? However, Astoria Rust's reply to Ms. Price's comment (which I actually read first) does lead one to believe a larger flame had been kindled.

Interesting reads, these blogs.

What we need, now, is a local sports blog, then we could use the Daily Astorian to post obituaries and the minutes of the Fair Board!

I hope *they* have that button to preview working!
[> [> [> Subject: karrie stirs the pot-must be bored


Author:
jos
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:30pm

[> [> [> [> Subject: no, avoiding something


Author:
Carrie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:53pm

And doing this atleast makes me feel like something has been accomplished. Plus, it is nice to read what everyone is thinking about and writing about. We do have some damn fine talent, locally. It is rare that I get a chance to spend an afternoon reading and reflecting... and avoiding. sigh.
[> Subject: Geography class about geograpy or politics?


Author:
jos
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:01pm

This is not my father's education system

denver & the west
Teacher showing foreign flags put on leave

By Karen Rouse
Denver Post Staff Writer


Eric Hamlin, suspended for refusing to remove foreign flags from his world geography class, notes that a U.S. flag is permanently on display. (Post / John Leyba)

A seventh-grade geography teacher who refused to remove Chinese, Mexican and United Nations flags from his classroom was placed on paid administrative leave Wednesday by Jefferson County officials who were concerned that the display violates the law.

District officials said state law forbids the display of foreign flags unless they are temporary and related to the curriculum.

Carmody Middle School principal John Schalk looked at the curriculum for Eric Hamlin's world geography class "and there was nothing ... related to any of these countries," said Lynn Setzer, district spokeswoman.

She said Schalk asked the teacher three times to remove the flags and warned there would be consequences, but Hamlin refused.

Hamlin, in his first year at Carmody, said he regularly displays flags from different countries, rotating them out based on countries being studied.

He said that the first six weeks of school are devoted to discussing the "fundamentals of geography" and that the flags were randomly selected.

District officials are citing Colorado Revised Statute 18-11- 205. It says: "Any person who displays any flag other than the flag of the United States of America or the state of Colorado or any of its subdivisions, agencies or institutions upon any state, county, municipal or other public building or adjacent grounds within this state commits a class 1 petty offense."

It says an exception to that law is "the display of any flag ... that is part of a temporary display of any instructional or historical materials not permanently affixed or attached to any part of the buildings ... ."

Mark Silverstein, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said he didn't see how the statute applied to this situation.

District Superintendent Cindy Stevenson said the district has contacted



Hamlin and is trying to resolve the issue.
"We have not heard back," she said.

She said Hamlin could have complied with the principal's request and then followed policies that allow him to appeal.

Schalk did not return a phone call seeking comment, but Stevenson said the current topic for the class was "latitude and longitude, not the culture of China, not the culture of Mexico."

The punishment for insubordination could range from a reprimand to dismissal, Setzer said.

Hamlin said he was in his classroom Monday when an assistant principal came in, saw the flags and told him they needed to be removed.

Hamlin said there is an American flag stationed permanently in the classroom.

He said he believes school officials are being extra cautious because of a controversy at Denver's North High School when a Mexican flag was hung by a social studies teacher and people complained.
[> [> Subject: Is he illiterate?


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:11pm

Quote: Colorado Revised Statute 18-11- 205. It says: "Any person who displays any flag other than the flag of the United States of America or the state of Colorado or any of its subdivisions, agencies or institutions upon any state, county, municipal or other public building or adjacent grounds within this state commits a class 1 petty offense." ... Mark Silverstein, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said he didn't see how the statute applied to this situation.

Or is he too stupid to understand that a public school building would be an "other public building"?
[> [> [> Subject: yeow


Author:
so right on
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 3:18pm

Mark Silverstein, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said he didn't see how the statute applied to this situation.

Or is he too stupid to understand that a public school building would be an "other public building"?
**************
He sure isn't as smart as you Mr. Richards!

Now who are the bad guys again?
ACLU
IRS
UN
BATF
Public School System
Government
Anyone who has left the safty of your comfort zone and learned something that doesn't fit into your huge mindset
***********

Should we disarm the Lebanese hezbollah Mr. Walters? Take their weapons away?
It seems Lebanon's citizens are distrustful of the UN troops for taking so long to arrange the ceasefire. Bolton,Bush and Condi wanted to take their time but the UN gets scapegoated again, and these troops merely follow orders to be peacekeepers. (i know-your mind has been made up for years)
[> [> [> Subject: C'mon


Author:
Pierce
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/28/06 8:15am

upon any state, county, municipal or other public building or adjacent grounds.

It says upon Walter not within. Adjacent grounds would be outside, like on a flag pole. The geography teacher is in the clear. Whats next outlawing encyclopidias because they might have a pictures of flags from other countrys or states? Blocking computers from displaying any flag other than the US or state the school is in?
Subject: so is the college a done deal and is it a two or four year


Author:
melissa
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:59pm

if its a four year is it going to have a sports program and if it does can the high school share its facilities, wouldnt that make the most sense or does that make too much sense and so it cant be done? is it a given that its going to be at the the astoria high school football site? is the college being moved so the overpass can go through there?
[> Subject: It has been a done deal for about a decade or so


Author:
Sandy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/23/06 2:20pm

However, nothing more ever seems to get done. I think it even was approved as a levy or bond a few years back. This time, it may go through because a sentator or two want it. With the current bunch of professors it seems to be one bummer of a crop, though. I believe attendance is at an all time low, most classes that are important (i.e. transferable, towards a degree, etc) are only provided via online instruction from another institution yet tuition has gone up and financial aid forebearance is at an alltime low as well.

People want the prestige that having a college provides but I don't see the facts that this area can support a college or that the college is doing much for this area. Few professors that I have met show a care about this area. Most have a distinctly disdainful attitude about our community, as if they are being punished to work here or are making a tremendous sacrifice to do so. I am sick and tired of those powers that be trying to make us feel like we are an extension of something or somewhere "else". We are not the ugly step-child of Portland, we are tired of getting the rejected medical personel, educators, govenrment agents and politicians that are either too incompetent or corrupt to practice anywhere else.

There had better be a better job of convincing "us" that a "new" campus for our "community" college is necessary. Right now all I see is that a bunch of prima donnas want new offices and I don't particularly care to foot that bill.
[> [> Subject: Hmmmm ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 1:57pm

Quote: People want the prestige that having a college provides but I don't see the facts that this area can support a college or that the college is doing much for this area.

How much can the college do, when the local gov't seems more interested in bringing in tourism than industry? You don't need a college degree for most of the seasonal (tourism) work.

But it's a Catch-22. Industry wants an educated base for its employees, but educational establishments need the industry to employ graduates to offer the courses industry wants for potential employees. So if an industry that wants educated employees isn't already in the area, it's unlikely one will move in.
[> [> [> Subject: It can do its job


Author:
Carrie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 2:48pm

The local government is what it is. Unless your saying that it has markedly changed in the last 45 years then the college has had that long to prove itself to the community. If it is doing a fine job then getting money to do what it wants done will be no problem. If it has failed the community then it will have a harder time proving that it acknowleges that failure and this is what it can and will do to overcome it.

In your opinion, what industries need a "large" populace of degreed workers and with what type of degrees? And what difference does that make, locally? Are we attracting students or working with those, potentially, already here? If we are working with those already here then why isn't our college already addressing those needs already apparent? We have a considerably high drop out rate of high school students throughout the county. What has the college done to address this problem? It is a community college, correct? It should perceive and address the needs of the community.
[> [> [> [> Subject: That's my point ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 4:24pm

Quote: Are we attracting students or working with those, potentially, already here? If we are working with those already here then why isn't our college already addressing those needs already apparent?

The college works with those here. But the only real option along those lines, is to prepare them for further education. IE; give them the first 2 years of a 4-year (or longer) degree. But that still entails the students leaving the community. There is VERY little base here to support someone with a BA or Masters. Especially when you consider those levels of positions always want someone with experience, as well as education.


Quote: We have a considerably high drop out rate of high school students throughout the county. What has the college done to address this problem?

The college has remedial courses. BUT, this is a national problem that colleges are complaining about ... that high schools, even when a student doesn't drop out, aren't preparing students for college freshman level courses. So, it seems (to me) the problem lies more with the education people get PRIOR to taking college classes.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: kids aren't dropping out cause schools too hard its too damn boring


Author:
gonzo
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 6:10pm

wrong answer. they don't want remedial anything. they quit cause their already bored out of their minds, school had nothing to do with their life and teachers treated them like shit. remedial classes! man, what planet? they want something thats goign to apply now, that they can use today. they want hitech votech. and i am the one voting and if you blame prior learning i aint voting for the college. whats it done for me lately? between the kids that won't vote and the old people who don't want to pay for it the college is going to loose again if it doesn't do something to change one of the groups minds.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: It ain't a matter of what you "want" ...


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:22pm

... it's a matter of what you "need".

Colleges have to offer remedial courses, because people coming in to the college don't have the education level for the college classes. IE; You can't take (say) college level math courses (for that high tech job you want), if you can't even handle high school math.

And guess what? If someone doesn't need those remedial courses, they can start right in to the college level classes.

-

As for dropping out of school because "they're bored" ... that's likely because schools are teaching to the lowest common denominator. Schools need to offer "tiered" courses. IE; 1 level for the "slow" students, 1 level for the "average" students, and 1 level for the "smart" students. Naturally, the school would also have to use "weighted" grades. IE; and "A" in the lowest level is not the same as an "A" in the highest level.

Besides, last I knew, if a kid was bored with high school because they were too smart ... they could take college courses, and get credit for them.

But, if the kid is bored with education just because they'd rather be doing something else ... get used to it. That's life.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: will it should matter cause i thought i was part of the community should of known better


Author:
gonzo
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:59pm

wrong again. and this is whats life. there aint no kids whose single parent is making under $20000 who isn't someones special hard luck case that gets taken to the college. they dont just go on their own. the college doesnt wnt them unless their part of a special program. if your mom doesnt want ot be bothered with it then your shit out of luck. they dont do that for a kid thats smart with his hands but not with the books and whos mother cant keep her pinky out when slurping the tea. and that is the majority of this community. which is what, supposedly, this college is. a community college. so far it has appealed to one class of the town and now its going downhill literally and figuratively.

you get used to this. life is im the one with the vote. me and my friends. if we are too bored with life in astoria it gets uncomfortable for everyone. bored youth make life miserable for everyone. thats a fact of life. get used to it. we are expensive. we are mean. you can rarely catch us and theres so many of us even if you catch one of us there's three or four more to take our place. we know every pipe tunnel and drain hole in town. we know how to get in and out of every building. your stupid. why bother talking to you. what a concept this town doesn't want to give anything to its kids. hell no, dont ask them what they think the college should provide. shiit. asshole. why dont you now wonder where all the kids hav e gone and why they havent stayed around to help the local economy? because we dont care if it fails. another fact of life. when you let people know you dont care about them they let you know how much they dont care about you real fast. thanks for the lesson in life. its one that astrias taught already. the signs been out for a long time. kids not wanted here.
Subject: People running afeared we loosing our beer in this neck of the woods


Author:
gonzo
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:36pm

On oneof the localblogs someone was afraid we may be drying up here locally with churches outdoing the bars in the yellow pages. Soemone else said course its all in how ya look at it, but in clatsop county the glass's ALWAYS half full! Here's what's in Astoria, according to that list:

Geno's
Annies
The Desdemona Club
Hong Kong's Lounge
Lattitudes Tavern
The Schooner
Labor Temple
Merry Time Lounge
The Chart Room
The Voodoo Room
The Wet Dog
Lower Columbia Bowl
Golden Star Lounge
Portway Tavern
Workers Tavern
Red Lion Lounge
Pier 11 Lounge
Ship Inn Restaurant & Lounge
The Public House
House of Chan, Panda, Good Luck, Lucky Star Lounge (or whatever it is being called for the moment but its across the street from Pig 'n Pan)
Silver Salmon Restaurant & Lounge
Moose Lodge
Eagles Lodge
BPOE
American Legion


the poster said these are just the ones whose job is to give you at least one beer (i think genos would argue bout that). the list does not count those (like all of the mexican restuarants and other new eateries) who serve beers, wine and liquors with the meals. In Astoria alone, not to mention all of the bars, lounges and taverns that Seaside, Cannon Beach, Warrenton/Hammond, Knappa, Elsie/Jewell, Hamlett, and Gearhart along with their lodges, golf clubs and country clubs, we are far from being outnumbered by the puritans. clatsop county's cups more than runneth over!

another poster said that in a healthy economy their are more drunks. bars should outnumber churches 2:1. wouldn't it be true that in an unhealthy economy people drink more to forget how unhealthy it is?

do you think we are healthy or unhealthy in astoria and are our bars and endication of our economy?
[> Subject: Bars vs Churches


Author:
Walter Richards
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 7:36pm

The ratio of bars to churches has nothing to do as an indicator of a "healthy economy".

In the old Soviet Union, religion was pretty much outlawed. There were plenty of bars. Thus the ratio of bars to churches was high. Yet they had a lousy economy.

One might make the case, however, that the per capita ratio of alcoholics rises with the decline of other "entertainments" to spend money on.
Subject: Man caught with 100 sturgeon in the bottom of his boat! Give us a break!


Author:
no way no how
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 2:19am

Altoona to Piller Rock is owned by the drag union and no one is ever touched inside of those waters, by the law. The fact that Cenci boarded a boat there shows he is an idiot.

Every fisherman on the river knows that sturgeon lay in the bottom of the boat for up to four hours when your bringing in your net or else they just land right back in your net if you throw them into the river.If this is a problem for the WDFW then they best be coming down on every single fisherman on the river because every single one of them do it cause its the only thing they can do when they drag, its stupid to think otherwise.This law is so poorly written it is left for each cop to interpret for themselves.Makes it much easier for the right person to be arrested and the right person to be let off scott free. Find one single fisherman who says he can drag without putting sturgeon into the bottom of his boat and you have a liar. Cenci is an idiot if he can't teach his crew better then this and if his agents are so unknowledgable of the fishing process that they issue citations for this action they should be relieved of their duties and Cenci's money for operating taken from him and dispersed elsewhere.

In what other line of business can cops enter private property to just conduct random searches?A fisherman cannot prevent a wdfw agent from boarding whether or not there is probable cause.A fisherman can be harassed day and night by an agent and if the agent tells a fisherman that's percisely whats going to happen until they leave the river there's nothing the fisherman can do about it.
[> Subject: Mike Cenci's awarded when he isn't breaking the law and other people's chops


Author:
the one that got away
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/26/06 2:19am

Cenci is one bad and dangerous cop.It will be interesting to see how this one pans out.Lets see if there are really charges levelled against one of the golden boys and whether or not the DA prosecutes on the charges.BPA's money is drying up and Cenci is having to justify his budget or lose equipment and men.Who is going to suffer?When you have idiots for agents the ones who suffers are the people who rely on a healthy fishing industry. It is interesting that sports fisherman's vessels cannot be boarded without probable cause.They pay a healthy amount of money to lobbyist regarding fishing laws.Pay back time for anger and frustration over recent matters (between sports and gillnetters) so pressure is being applied to attack the gillnetters and no one told wdwf who the good ole boys were and who it was safe to go after. Laws have gotta change. Personal property cannot be boarded unless they have a search warrant.Some kid who doesn't know one end of a line from another can't be deciding if sturgeon have laid in a boat too long or if there is too much net out (yeah, sure they measured that net). Laws like these are bad for everyone and they have nothing to do with saving fish. No one would have bought those fish from that fisherman so its ridiculous to even pretend that he was keeping them to sell or do anything except try to prevent them from re-entering his net. Everyone but a complete jackass and moron KNOWS that. How many other people has this wdfw cop, Cenci, jumped on regarding supposed "violations" that are relly what everyone knows is just what fishing really is?

We need a reality show about life on the Columbia. That would be real interesting.Show people how this river is really fished.Show people how this river is really policed. Next time one of you assholes board a boat smile and say "cheese" cause you never know if your being filmed, if its live on the internet or being filmed for later. Zoom lens, don't have to be right there either. With all the pot shots that goes on between the fishing vessels the film crew can catch that, too. This would make for a great series. You'd think, what with some of the odfw employees sometimes hiring out on the boats and watching the shots ring out, that these fish cops would have some idea which boats to be on or looking for for the real excitement but nah, that'd call for them to actually do their jobs. Keep your eye on the story. Maybe the daily astorian'll do a half decent job reporting it or contact the pacific county prosecutor and see if he's are going to follow through on prosecuting this guy. The prosecuter is The Honorable David J. Burke Prosecuting Attorney, (360) 875-9361 or (360) 642-9361 email: dburke@co.pacific.wa.us. I'm sure he'd love to hear from the public on this case.

"Cenci said this case was "not the norm" for gillnetters in the region, but that the "antics of a few give them a black eye."" as reported in the Daily Astorian. Its either lying or Cenci is a liar or a complete idiot. It is the norm! If your not a fisherman just ask one. Email Burke ask him if he's got enough evidence to prosecute anyone on these drummed up fish charges.
Subject: our "hero"


Author:
ditto
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/25/06 5:55pm

Limbaugh claimed that Jesse Jackson, other activists don't want race issues "solved" because "it would put too many people out of business"
Monday, April 25, 2005 12:26PM
Subject: free 411 even on your cell cept for the minutes


Author:
anon
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/24/06 12:49am

1-800-free-411">http://news.com.com/2061-10800_3-5877039.html>1-800-free-411 gets ya free directory info but you gotta listen to ads.
Subject: Are you an anatomical donor?


Author:
Sandy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/23/06 2:25pm



Are you afraid this might happen if you receive or give a body part? What a waste!
Subject: dead under suspicious circumstances


Author:
Blind,Blatant, Blunt & Stupid-another rock shattered window
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Date Posted: 08/14/06 2:14pm

I guess writing so blatantly can get you dead. Just for fun, I would like to know how many folks with connections "to" or wrote "about" Pres. Nightmare ended up dead.

Hunter S. Thompson wrote about him as did Hatfield, the author of "Fortunate Son" (remember credence clearwater and "It ain't me..I ain't no man's Fortunate Son"?)

Thompson wrote:
"He knew who I was, at that time, because I had a reputation as a writer. I knew he was part of the Bush dynasty. But he was nothing, he offered nothing, and he promised nothing. He had no humor. He was insignificant in every way and consequently I didn't pay much attention to him. But when he passed out in my bathtub, then I noticed him. I'd been in another room, talking to the bright people. I had to have him taken away." -on meeting George W Bush at Thompson's Super Bowl party in Houston in 1974


So-let's have him taken away. Chicken?
[> Subject: Probably just as many ...


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 08/14/06 2:14pm

... as ended up dead or worse, under the Clinton Regime.

What's worse than dead, you ask? An IRS audit. Every year. For 8 years. Yes - It happened.
Subject: DHS news release


Author:
Walter Richards
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Date Posted: 08/14/06 11:25am

The Oregon State Public Health Laboratory has confirmed that three people in Malheur County have tested positive for West Nile virus infection, public health officials at the Oregon Department of Human Services Public Health Division said today.

They are the year's first human WVV cases in the state. Oregon recorded eight human cases in 2005 and five cases in 2004.

"All three of these people are recovering," said Chris Thomas, public health nurse in Malheur County. "This is the time of year when we would expect to start seeing the appearance of West Nile virus, and it's a definite reminder for people to start taking personal precautions against mosquito bites."

"Oregon has been experiencing a heat wave with temperatures in some areas consistently above 100 degrees, which is conducive to mosquito breeding and virus replication." said Emilio DeBess, D.V.M., epidemiologist in DHS. "As a result, we expect a rapid rise in mosquito activity over the next few weeks. Oregonians need to step up their efforts to protect themselves from mosquito bites when outside, especially those individuals who work outdoors."

Also today, Oregon State University's Veterinary Diagnostic laboratory confirmed a positive WNV bird in Jordan Valley in Malheur County, DeBess said.

DeBess recommends five key actions people can take to protect themselves:

Screen doors and windows should fit tightly. Repair or replace screens that have tears or holes.
Wear long pants, long-sleeve shirts and other protective clothing when outside.
Eliminate all sources of standing water that can support mosquito breeding such as clogged gutters, birdbaths and old tires.
Avoid playing or working outside at dawn and dusk, when mosquitoes are most active.
Use an insect repellant, preferably one that contains DEET, Picaridin or oil of lemon eucalyptus. Follow label directions carefully. Never apply DEET directly to children or put it on children's hands. Apply repellant first to your own hands and then onto the child. Do not use oil of lemon eucalyptus on children under age three.
DeBess said CDC-reviewed research suggests that repellants containing DEET or Picaridin typically provide longer-lasting protection than other products and that oil of lemon eucalyptus providers longer-lasting protection than other plant-based repellants.

He said a product containing 23.8 percent DEET provided an average of five hours of protection from mosquito bites; a product containing 20 percent DEET almost four hours of protection; a product with 6.65 percent DEET almost two hours and those with 4.75 percent DEET roughly 90 minutes' protection.

DeBess said that people infected with West Nile virus usually have no illness or only mild symptoms. "About 20 percent of cases result in a flu-like illness. In one out of 150 cases, the virus can cause inflammation of the brain and result in serious illness or even death. This most commonly occurs in persons 50 years or older," he said.

West Nile virus normally lives in birds. It is spread when a mosquito feeds on an infected bird and then bites a human. Birds cannot transmit the disease to humans, nor can it be transmitted through person-to-person contact, according to DeBess.

So far this year, West Nile has been detected in three Malheur birds, two horses in Malheur and Harney Counties and in four Baker County mosquito pools. In 2005, Oregon recorded the infection in 8 humans, 14 birds and 41 horses.

DHS has set up a toll-free West Nile virus hotline for people statewide to call for recorded information in English and Spanish at 866-703-4636. Information can also be found on the DHS West Nile Web site.
Subject: Protecting the torturers (the elite policymakers-not Lindy Englund)


Author:
Josie
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Date Posted: 08/12/06 6:19pm

Larry Cox, Amnesty International USA's executive director, said that “President Bush is looking to limit the War Crimes Act through legislation” now that the Supreme Court has embraced Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. In June, the court ruled that Bush's plan to try Guantanamo Bay detainees in military tribunals violates Article 3.
---
Proposed War Crimes Act protection for Bush administration would apply retroactively



By Pete Yost
ASSOCIATED PRESS

5:11 p.m. August 9, 2006

WASHINGTON – The Bush administration drafted amendments to the War Crimes Act that would retroactively protect policymakers from possible criminal charges for authorizing any humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees, according to lawyers who have seen the proposal.
The move by the administration is the latest effort to deal with treatment of those taken into custody in the war on terror.

At issue are interrogations carried out by the CIA, and the degree to which harsh tactics such as water-boarding were authorized by administration officials. A separate law, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, applies to the military.
The Washington Post first reported on the War Crimes Act amendments Wednesday.

One section of the draft would outlaw torture and inhuman or cruel treatment, but it does not contain prohibitions from Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions against “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.” A copy of the section of the draft was obtained by The Associated Press.

Another section would apply the legislation retroactively, according to two lawyers who have seen the contents of the section and who spoke on condition of anonymity because their sources did not authorize them to release the information.

One of the two attorneys said that the draft is in the revision stage but that the administration seems intent on pushing forward the draft's major points in Congress after Labor Day.

“I think what this bill can do is in effect immunize past crimes. That's why it's so dangerous,” said a third attorney, Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice.

Fidell said the initiative is “not just protection of political appointees, but also CIA personnel who led interrogations.”

Interrogation practices “follow from policies that were formed at the highest levels of the administration,” said a fourth attorney, Scott Horton, who has followed detainee issues closely. “The administration is trying to insulate policymakers under the War Crimes Act.”

The Bush administration contends Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions includes a number of vague terms that are susceptible to different interpretations.

Extreme interrogation practices have been a flash point for criticism of the administration.

When interrogators engage in waterboarding, prisoners are strapped to a plank and dunked in water until nearly drowning.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Congress “is aware of the dilemma we face, how to make sure the CIA and others are not unfairly prosecuted.”

He said that at the same time, Congress “will not allow political appointees to waive the law.”

Larry Cox, Amnesty International USA's executive director, said that “President Bush is looking to limit the War Crimes Act through legislation” now that the Supreme Court has embraced Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. In June, the court ruled that Bush's plan to try Guantanamo Bay detainees in military tribunals violates Article 3.
[> Subject: as it should be or not


Author:
joe
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Date Posted: 08/12/06 6:19pm

How low does the bar go fellow american?


Col. Janis Karpinski said, "... pictures were staged there was no electricity in Abu Ghraib. They used generators." The articles used were PROPS, black hoods, electrodes, hoods, leashes were provided by Iraqis and people from Guantanamo Bay where these props were tested...........
"Lynndie England was specifically selected to pose in pictures. Lynndie just followed ORDERS! It goes to the very top, Rumsfeld, Bremer, Gonzales......." --Col. Janis Karpinski, Ret.
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