Two statements come to mind. One, when Jeremy says he has been the man of the house since he was 7 and two Denise stated I have raised a son who hits his mother. Jeremy's told his Mom she had time to help her friends but not him, that she doesn't listen to him. Denise tolerated his abuse and was the primary parent in Jeremy's upbringing. I agree with her that it is her problem to fix. She obviously did not pick up on her son's growing anger and with Frank gone I am wondering what distracted her from seeing her son was in serious need of help. Most sons are protective of their mother's, the fact that Jeremy isn't, speaks volumes about their relationship. (Inside) -- Army Wives: Celebrating the circle of friendship!

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Date Posted: 14:43:42 07/10/07 Tue
Author: Jubellant
Subject: Two statements come to mind. One, when Jeremy says he has been the man of the house since he was 7 and two Denise stated I have raised a son who hits his mother. Jeremy's told his Mom she had time to help her friends but not him, that she doesn't listen to him. Denise tolerated his abuse and was the primary parent in Jeremy's upbringing. I agree with her that it is her problem to fix. She obviously did not pick up on her son's growing anger and with Frank gone I am wondering what distracted her from seeing her son was in serious need of help. Most sons are protective of their mother's, the fact that Jeremy isn't, speaks volumes about their relationship. (Inside)
In reply to: Texasbrat 's message, "Inside for my take -- I KNOW Voy will say I talk too much.........." on 07:39:13 07/10/07 Tue

I am not saying I agree with Frank's behaviour but I do have to credit the guy for not resorting to physical violence. I'd rather see him take out his anger on inanimate object such as Jeremy's things. I also have to credit Frank from his reversal on West Point it showed he does have a rational side. Frank is also angry with his wife for keeping him in the dark. The whole family dynamic needs professional help. I have seen people inflate when they are angry but have seen them deflate just as quickly. Frank has not been challanged by his wife before. I think he is in for a major surprise when he realizes his wife is no longer willing to say yes dear. He will eventually respect her more for it (I hope). As for Jeremy for me, the jury is still out on him.

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[> [> [> Just a question Theresa. Where do you get that Frank is abusive? Denise has stated he would never hit a woman. He might be domineering and have the old school I'm the man of the house mentality but I don't think we have seen abusive have we? Anger definitely. -- Jubellant, 14:51:15 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> Just wanted to add one more thing, Frank's initial anger was understandable if over the top. As I reviewed next week's previews Frank's anger is cont. to escalate. I must admit this does concern me. Frank is the adult here and should be cooling off by now. I don't totally disagree with him tossing Jeremy out of the house for a night but to extend this knee jerk reaction does nothing to provide a solution to the problem. It just sends an angry young man out there on an unsuspecting world. Jeremy's behaviour puts others at risk and as the parents never really fully addressed this issue, they do have an obligation to at least attempt to correct the problem. (See, discussion helps :)!) -- Jubellant, 16:13:01 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> I don't think Frank is abusive at all and I think people are being too quick to judge him on one incident. I loved the sweet goodbyes between him and Denise when he was being deployed, you don't send love notes to a man who is making you unhappy. OK so their relationship may have been old fashioned, but at that point their was no indication that Denise was unhappy with it, in fact I don't think she was.I suspect Frank may not have been a good enough father, but as he said, recent events had given him a new perspective. He received the news from Jeremy about Westpoint in a good natured and fatherly way (more inside..) -- Ixia, 16:25:49 07/10/07 Tue [1]

I suspect that if Jeremy had not hit his mother, then they would have had a startiong point for a better relationship.

Nobody expected Frank to react the way he did over Jeremy's confession, Denise had never seen him so angry before. That doesn't to me suggest someone with an anger management problem, but more someone under extreme stress, we shouldn't forget what an ordeal he had just been through. He does seem to fetch the army into his home life far too much, but I wonder if that is the front he needs to keep things together at the moment. He wasn't violent and didn't hit Jeremy, infact Michael Holden was more aggressive in pinning Jeremy against a wall. I think people are glossing over the fact that Jeremy hit his mother, not once but several times - he's not a child, but an adult. It's something that's beyond awful. I watched the episode again where Roxy defended Denise against him and it's difficult to feel sorry for him, it wasn't just a slap, but he really went for her - if Roxy hadn't walked in...what then? I'm not sure if it was wrong of Frank to make Jeremy leave the house, in two minds there. But he has no right to make that choice for Denise.

He isn't taking Denise's opinion into account and that is wrong on so many fronts, but he does need time to adapt to the new status quo. She hasn't been assertive in the past, but if she wants things to change then she has to facilitate that change.

Also I don't think it has been mentioned before, but I wonder how Frank and Denise's upbringings have influenced their relationship. Denise is from an old school military family, she's probably been brought up with the idea of the father being the head of the household.

Apologies for the small novel, this is what happens when you take a day to mull things over - lol.

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[> [> [> [> [> I think everyone is blown away by what has happened. Denise never thought she'd have to defend herself against her son. She never thought she'd have the guts to stand up to anyone like that. Frank never thought it would be a problem. Jeremy never thought his mother would be assertive with him and threaten to throw him out of her life if he did it again. He never thought his father would do just that by hearing about it. These people don't know each other or themselves very well. All of these things happened, and they never thought they would. -- Theresa, 16:59:34 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Also if Denise was perfectly happy with the way things were, and how Frank treated her, then she's probably never seen this side of him at all. This is all uncharted territory. They were happy in their little perfect 1940's traditional cocoon until their son got sick of his father's dictatorship and didn't know how to handle his anger. Denise is too sweet to show her anger so he didn't learn anger management from her, and Frank's household was being ran the way he wanted so he didn't have any anger to manage either. Neither Frank nor Denise expect Jeremy to be angry or even understood why. I don't blame Frank for his anger, I'd throw my son out the window if he tried to hurt me or my husband, but I wouldn't throw him out of my life. I blame him for his disregard for Denise. -- Theresa, 17:10:16 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> An abusive nature and abusive behavior are two different things. Frank has the discipline to never hit a woman, but he's a hothead. Look at the way he pulls away from Denise in Anger and sort of shoves her back in the preview. Frank has all the marks of someone who would be abusive had he not the self discipline. He expects that same self discipline from his son, but was never around to teach it to him. And it looks like Denise didn't think she'd have to. The abuse only started 6 months before the premiere. It's a relatively new developement, and it looks like Denise missed the signs along the way that pointed to raising an abuser. Most people miss the signs because they can't fathom it ever happening. -- Theresa, 16:48:38 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> It's difficult to tell from the preview as it's edited and moves so fast. But Denise doesn't shy away from him, there's no fear there and she puts her hand forward and almost pushes him in the stomach as if she is going to force him to listen to her. I don't see that he shoves her, just pulls away. -- Ixia, 17:14:57 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> I'll look again. What I'm saying is, that I don't think Frank would ever hurt Denise because he has more self control than that, but Jeremy has that same hot temper without the self control. Frank is domineering and dismissive of her feelings. They've probably never been in this situation before. She wouldn't be afraid of him. She wouldn't see that those are the marks of an abuser. There are many people who have a tendency and choose to suppress it. I think before now Frank suppressed his tendency to lash out. He didn't need to show it. Now he's showing it, but choosing not to be an abuser. Some people are too gentle natured to be an abuser, and others just choose not to be though they could easily be that way. I believe Frank is the latter. -- Theresa, 17:22:35 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> I do hear what you're saying and I don't mean that in a buzz-phrase kind of way :) I don't feel I can class someone as an abuser just because they have the capability. He's a soldier obviously he will have the capability to resort to violent acts and the self control to keep it in check. ....I've suddenly got the vision of the two of us replaying the lifetime clip over in another window, just so we can see whose arms and hands are where. It's 1.35am here and I'm fast losing my capacity for rational thinking :/ -- Ixia, 17:37:34 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Excuse the spelling, I pressed enter for a new paragraph and it erm...entered my post into the thread. -- Ixia, 17:39:27 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I never said he was an abuser. I said he had an abusive nature which Jeremy inherited. He certainly didn't get the fiery temper from his mother. That's all I was saying. -- Theresa, 19:53:44 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Michael Holden told Jeremy he had respect for Frank. Frank stated at the welcome home activities that one of his men the age of his son died in his arms. Denise has said she has never seen him this angry. Frank was fortunate to even be alive. Until his son decided he did not want to attend West Point that was the direction his life had been headed. Major Sherwood's military style at home might have been his way of preparing Jeremy for that lifestyle. The first extended time we see Frank at home is after a traumatic experience. Can we be jumping the gun a little on his reactions? We did see him interacting positively with his son until he heard about the abuse of his mother. -- Jubellant, 23:44:51 07/10/07 Tue [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Frank's West Point reaction makes better sense, now (my 5 year old had the Mommy's when the show started the other day & I didn't hear all of the speech). After having one of his men die in his arms, that was his son's age, he's glad his son is choosing a career where he will be much less likely to be in harm's way. Frank was a tad peturbed that neither his wife nor son had told him about West Point, but I'm not sure he had given them a chance, either. -- Texasbrat, 05:01:03 07/11/07 Wed [1]

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