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Date Posted: 07:39:13 07/10/07 Tue
Author: Texasbrat
Subject: Inside for my take -- I KNOW Voy will say I talk too much..........
In reply to:
KH (had her first helicopter ride this weekend. AMAZING!
's message, "Well I'm signing in on the fly as I head out the door for work to say "Another amazing episode". I do have to say that I'm not real pleased with Frank at this moment. He has every right to be angry, but he isn't handling the situation well at all. And let's just say we now know where Jeremy gets his temper from. Frank is very much a mega male and likes to be in control. I'll elaborate more after work tonight, but I thought I would make a couple of comments. Have a Great Day Everyone, see you after work and Take Care! :o)" on 06:47:16 07/09/07 Mon
Frank had a knee jerk reaction to Jeremy's confession, he wanted him out of his sight before he did something more stupid. I also think Frank is still in a combat frame of mind -- he's only home for 14 days to recoup before leaving for the same field of action again.
I'm a little upset at Michael Holden's reaction. He told Jeremy that he would help him after he told his dad, but then just told him to stay away from his daughter. I think Jeremy probably considers Michael more of a dad to him, than his own dad, and he respects Michael -- its just that Michael can't handle Jeremy dating his daughter. Jeremy would never have tried to stop, nor confessed to his own dad, if he didn't respect Michael Holden, and Michael doesn't see that right now.
Claudia Joy hit this one square on the head, if they forbid the kids to see each other, then the kids will be more determined than ever to see each other. Better plan would be to make their house THE house for the kids to be & thus Mom & Dad can watch without watching the goings on.
Someone made a comment about an earlier ep, where Jeremy never said he loved his dad. Frank never said he loved or missed Jeremy, just glad he was the man of the house. As a result, Jeremy probably doesn't think his dad has ever loved or wanted him around, and being thrown out of the house just confirms Jeremy's feelings. Jeremy is looking for a place where he feels like he belongs -- thus the Army enlistment. Would not be surprised in the least to find that Frank had a similar relationship with his dad, and has no clue how to relate to his own son.
I see Frank as kinda of an "old school" officer -- his wife's job is to keep the house in order, children are to be seen/not heard, and everything is done to advance his career. It's all about him & his career, not about the wife & kids, they more to show him as a family man. My mom used to talk about how officer's wives/families's actions could cause an officer not to be promoted.
That's all for now -- I'm sure I'll come up with something else later.
TB
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Good post TB. I was just thinking no one had mentioned Frank was being redeployed in 14 days. He didn't want his wife left in any potential danger. Frank did ask where's Jeremy after Denise kissed him. Frank also said knowing he had Denise and Jeremy was what kept him going. Jeremy went to see Michael because he is the one who confronted him about hitting his mother. He hit her again after being warned. IMHO he confessed to Frank because Roxy had caught him hitting his Mom and the cat was out of the bag. Sorry only see the guy as saving his own skin. He apologized only after they found out his father was MIA so I feel guilt played a big part there. Maybe he really is sorry but I'm just not feeling it. He does look like a little lost boy though, and I truly hope he gets the help he needs. -- Jubellant, 08:11:54 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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See, I just don't buy your theory Jubellant. I don't think he was thinking about leaving his wife in potential danger. I feel Frank made this all about himself. And as long as Denise and Jeremy mind their p's and q's then everything is hunky dory. I don't think Jeremy confessed to Michael he hit his mom because Roxy saw him at all. Roxy would never go to Michael Holden about Jeremy behind Denises back, not to mention she would never step into the ranks like that. I don't see Jeremy as only saving his own skin. While I don't agree and hate what he did to his mother, he has a problem and he went to Colonel Holden for help. Sometimes it takes something tragic to happen to get a wakeup call and realize what we've done and have genuine regrets and need to amend for our mistakes. -- Kathy, 08:59:51 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Denise took charge again when she confronted Jeremy first telling him how much she loved him and then telling him if he ever did it again what the consequences were. By Jeremy's fascial expression he understood she meant business. I think Jeremy is really a lost soul and needs help. He and Denise have been talking and opening up to each other and working past it. Denise even tries to tell Frank that it happened to her and she is working on forgiving him and that it's her decision not Franks. But Alpha Frank acted pathetically and is pissed off that his little troops aren't following his orders. I see Jeremy trying really and right now has no place to go and no one to talk to. He can't go to his mother because his hotheaded father won't let him near the house. inside.. -- Kathy, 09:02:38 07/10/07 Tue [1]
His mother is desperate to find her son, her flesh and blood whom she loves and isn't going to give up on. I hope when she sees Jeremy next week at least he and Denise will get to talk and that he knows his mother is there for him. I could never do to my child what Frank did to his and then to say he's dead to him is just unforgivable and something I hope he doesn't live to regret.
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I'd like to point out that Jeremy's male figure is a hothead who dictates everything. When you watch the scenes of him abusing his mother every one of them surrounds anger at his father, and her backing his father up. Yes he's 18, but he's still a little boy in his head. I don't think he realizes that he's lashing out at her for being weak against his father. He learned that abusive nature from Frank. -- Theresa, 09:25:56 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Wow Theresa again we agree..lol. -- Kathy, 09:43:14 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Observe in the previews for next week, how Frank is still on the rampage and getting rid of all of Jeremy's things. Then Denise goes in there and starts expressing herself and when she touches him to get his attention, watch how he whips around on her and jerks his away as if he can't stand her or be touched by her. Jeremy comes by it naturally. Like Theresa said, Frank is a hothead who dictates everything and wants everything in his neat tiny order, and who cares what anyone elses opinions and feelings are. He gives me the shivers with his anger. -- Kathy, 09:48:49 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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I noticed that too. He is almost acting like he has something seriously wrong with him his face just says it all. It gives me the shivers also!!! -- Erin, 12:19:16 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Two statements come to mind. One, when Jeremy says he has been the man of the house since he was 7 and two Denise stated I have raised a son who hits his mother. Jeremy's told his Mom she had time to help her friends but not him, that she doesn't listen to him. Denise tolerated his abuse and was the primary parent in Jeremy's upbringing. I agree with her that it is her problem to fix. She obviously did not pick up on her son's growing anger and with Frank gone I am wondering what distracted her from seeing her son was in serious need of help. Most sons are protective of their mother's, the fact that Jeremy isn't, speaks volumes about their relationship. (Inside) -- Jubellant, 14:43:42 07/10/07 Tue [1]
I am not saying I agree with Frank's behaviour but I do have to credit the guy for not resorting to physical violence. I'd rather see him take out his anger on inanimate object such as Jeremy's things. I also have to credit Frank from his reversal on West Point it showed he does have a rational side. Frank is also angry with his wife for keeping him in the dark. The whole family dynamic needs professional help. I have seen people inflate when they are angry but have seen them deflate just as quickly. Frank has not been challanged by his wife before. I think he is in for a major surprise when he realizes his wife is no longer willing to say yes dear. He will eventually respect her more for it (I hope). As for Jeremy for me, the jury is still out on him.
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Just a question Theresa. Where do you get that Frank is abusive? Denise has stated he would never hit a woman. He might be domineering and have the old school I'm the man of the house mentality but I don't think we have seen abusive have we? Anger definitely. -- Jubellant, 14:51:15 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Just wanted to add one more thing, Frank's initial anger was understandable if over the top. As I reviewed next week's previews Frank's anger is cont. to escalate. I must admit this does concern me. Frank is the adult here and should be cooling off by now. I don't totally disagree with him tossing Jeremy out of the house for a night but to extend this knee jerk reaction does nothing to provide a solution to the problem. It just sends an angry young man out there on an unsuspecting world. Jeremy's behaviour puts others at risk and as the parents never really fully addressed this issue, they do have an obligation to at least attempt to correct the problem. (See, discussion helps :)!) -- Jubellant, 16:13:01 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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I don't think Frank is abusive at all and I think people are being too quick to judge him on one incident. I loved the sweet goodbyes between him and Denise when he was being deployed, you don't send love notes to a man who is making you unhappy. OK so their relationship may have been old fashioned, but at that point their was no indication that Denise was unhappy with it, in fact I don't think she was.I suspect Frank may not have been a good enough father, but as he said, recent events had given him a new perspective. He received the news from Jeremy about Westpoint in a good natured and fatherly way (more inside..) -- Ixia, 16:25:49 07/10/07 Tue [1]
I suspect that if Jeremy had not hit his mother, then they would have had a startiong point for a better relationship.
Nobody expected Frank to react the way he did over Jeremy's confession, Denise had never seen him so angry before. That doesn't to me suggest someone with an anger management problem, but more someone under extreme stress, we shouldn't forget what an ordeal he had just been through. He does seem to fetch the army into his home life far too much, but I wonder if that is the front he needs to keep things together at the moment. He wasn't violent and didn't hit Jeremy, infact Michael Holden was more aggressive in pinning Jeremy against a wall. I think people are glossing over the fact that Jeremy hit his mother, not once but several times - he's not a child, but an adult. It's something that's beyond awful. I watched the episode again where Roxy defended Denise against him and it's difficult to feel sorry for him, it wasn't just a slap, but he really went for her - if Roxy hadn't walked in...what then? I'm not sure if it was wrong of Frank to make Jeremy leave the house, in two minds there. But he has no right to make that choice for Denise.
He isn't taking Denise's opinion into account and that is wrong on so many fronts, but he does need time to adapt to the new status quo. She hasn't been assertive in the past, but if she wants things to change then she has to facilitate that change.
Also I don't think it has been mentioned before, but I wonder how Frank and Denise's upbringings have influenced their relationship. Denise is from an old school military family, she's probably been brought up with the idea of the father being the head of the household.
Apologies for the small novel, this is what happens when you take a day to mull things over - lol.
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I think everyone is blown away by what has happened. Denise never thought she'd have to defend herself against her son. She never thought she'd have the guts to stand up to anyone like that. Frank never thought it would be a problem. Jeremy never thought his mother would be assertive with him and threaten to throw him out of her life if he did it again. He never thought his father would do just that by hearing about it. These people don't know each other or themselves very well. All of these things happened, and they never thought they would. -- Theresa, 16:59:34 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Also if Denise was perfectly happy with the way things were, and how Frank treated her, then she's probably never seen this side of him at all. This is all uncharted territory. They were happy in their little perfect 1940's traditional cocoon until their son got sick of his father's dictatorship and didn't know how to handle his anger. Denise is too sweet to show her anger so he didn't learn anger management from her, and Frank's household was being ran the way he wanted so he didn't have any anger to manage either. Neither Frank nor Denise expect Jeremy to be angry or even understood why. I don't blame Frank for his anger, I'd throw my son out the window if he tried to hurt me or my husband, but I wouldn't throw him out of my life. I blame him for his disregard for Denise. -- Theresa, 17:10:16 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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An abusive nature and abusive behavior are two different things. Frank has the discipline to never hit a woman, but he's a hothead. Look at the way he pulls away from Denise in Anger and sort of shoves her back in the preview. Frank has all the marks of someone who would be abusive had he not the self discipline. He expects that same self discipline from his son, but was never around to teach it to him. And it looks like Denise didn't think she'd have to. The abuse only started 6 months before the premiere. It's a relatively new developement, and it looks like Denise missed the signs along the way that pointed to raising an abuser. Most people miss the signs because they can't fathom it ever happening. -- Theresa, 16:48:38 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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It's difficult to tell from the preview as it's edited and moves so fast. But Denise doesn't shy away from him, there's no fear there and she puts her hand forward and almost pushes him in the stomach as if she is going to force him to listen to her. I don't see that he shoves her, just pulls away. -- Ixia, 17:14:57 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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I'll look again. What I'm saying is, that I don't think Frank would ever hurt Denise because he has more self control than that, but Jeremy has that same hot temper without the self control. Frank is domineering and dismissive of her feelings. They've probably never been in this situation before. She wouldn't be afraid of him. She wouldn't see that those are the marks of an abuser. There are many people who have a tendency and choose to suppress it. I think before now Frank suppressed his tendency to lash out. He didn't need to show it. Now he's showing it, but choosing not to be an abuser. Some people are too gentle natured to be an abuser, and others just choose not to be though they could easily be that way. I believe Frank is the latter. -- Theresa, 17:22:35 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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I do hear what you're saying and I don't mean that in a buzz-phrase kind of way :) I don't feel I can class someone as an abuser just because they have the capability. He's a soldier obviously he will have the capability to resort to violent acts and the self control to keep it in check. ....I've suddenly got the vision of the two of us replaying the lifetime clip over in another window, just so we can see whose arms and hands are where. It's 1.35am here and I'm fast losing my capacity for rational thinking :/ -- Ixia, 17:37:34 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Excuse the spelling, I pressed enter for a new paragraph and it erm...entered my post into the thread. -- Ixia, 17:39:27 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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I never said he was an abuser. I said he had an abusive nature which Jeremy inherited. He certainly didn't get the fiery temper from his mother. That's all I was saying. -- Theresa, 19:53:44 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Michael Holden told Jeremy he had respect for Frank. Frank stated at the welcome home activities that one of his men the age of his son died in his arms. Denise has said she has never seen him this angry. Frank was fortunate to even be alive. Until his son decided he did not want to attend West Point that was the direction his life had been headed. Major Sherwood's military style at home might have been his way of preparing Jeremy for that lifestyle. The first extended time we see Frank at home is after a traumatic experience. Can we be jumping the gun a little on his reactions? We did see him interacting positively with his son until he heard about the abuse of his mother. -- Jubellant, 23:44:51 07/10/07 Tue [1]
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Frank's West Point reaction makes better sense, now (my 5 year old had the Mommy's when the show started the other day & I didn't hear all of the speech). After having one of his men die in his arms, that was his son's age, he's glad his son is choosing a career where he will be much less likely to be in harm's way. Frank was a tad peturbed that neither his wife nor son had told him about West Point, but I'm not sure he had given them a chance, either. -- Texasbrat, 05:01:03 07/11/07 Wed [1]
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