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Date Posted: 19:05:55 07/19/07 Thu
Author: Kristen
Subject: Let's change the situation up: Let's say Frank's chopper hadnt gone down. What would have happened w. Jeremy and Denise then? My thoughts are inside b.c it was too long LOL.....

I dont know yall... maybe I am just taking the adults side on this one... Denise was hurt repeatedly by her son--he taunted her by saying you wont tell... what do yall think might have happened if Frank would have been ok and nothing would have happened to his chopper? We know that Jeremy was out w. Amanda and her sister to see a movie-- even though Denise told Jeremy (RIGHTLY SO) that she would have him arrested if he didnt stop, would Jeremy have taken Denise's threats seriously? The question I want the answer to is would Jeremy have stopped abusing his mom b/c he knew that word had gotten out and that he would look like a creep in Amanda's eyes? Meaning would he have done it because he respects and love his mom? Would he have stopped at all or did he feel like a big man and say screw my mom and dad- Jubes I agree w. what you said on here on one post below... I think Jeremy was hitting his mom to get back at his dad. He knew his dad loves his mom more than life so what better way to hurt his dad? Hurt his mom. This is a very hard subject to deal with and honestly there is no simple answer. We all have our opinions on this and it has been VERY interesting to hearing everyone's thoughts :-)

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[> I think the fact that Denise did tell someone (albeit Claudia Joy & Michael) & the fact that she actually confronted him & was more forceful than she'd ever been, Jeremy knew she was serious. I have no doubt that the *new* Denise would've called the police if Jeremy continued to abuse her. I don't think anyone but Denise could've stopped Jeremy, not Amanda or his friends. Jeremy treated Denise like he saw Frank, as an inconsequential non-issue subordinate, someone beneath him who he doesn't have to respect. I think Denise's telling Jeremy she wasn't going to put up with it & was going to call the police Jeremy found respect for his mother. They were working on it, & then Frank came home & KABOOM! He tried to bully everyone & it all blew up. -- Jennifer, 19:10:23 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> Jen, I think you just pegged the cycle of abuse in this family -- Bullying. Frank bullies Denise with his I rule the roost attitude, it's clear he has a temper, but he probably takes his anger out in either PT or on the men in his command. Jeremy doesn't have that outlet, so he hit Denise. The example he was shown growing up is that he should bully his mom, so when she confronted him, he is now somewhat confused & questioning his life in general. I doubt he realized, until Michael Holden told him, that what he was doing was wrong. -- Texasbrat, 07:55:27 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> I disagree with your last statement because after the second time when he cut Denise's cheek she said "why do you keep doing this?" and he said, "I'm sorry I didn't mean it." If he could feel sorry about what he'd done, then he knew it was wrong. -- Theresa, 12:32:35 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> Kristen you read my mind! I was about to post on the Denise issue! How long would the abuse have continued if Claudia Joy had not discovered the telltale marks on Denise's arm? Would Denise have used the old I walked into a door excuse for the facial bruise? If Roxy hadn't have walked in and then taken Denise boxing, would Denise really have said enough was enough? Would she have ever told Frank? The violence was escalating from a grabbing bruise, to a slap, to a bloody nose. Okay Jennifer I agree mostly with your post but I feel she only told Claudia and Michael because she was found out by CJ. The rest of your post I think was smack on except Frank would say protecting; his wife and punishing his son (yes I know he over-reacted in an enraged state like a bull in a china shop.) -- Jubellant, 19:45:20 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> I think that she would have stood up for herself regardless of the support others gave her. Because it only took some prodding from Roxy to get the ball rolling to a new Denise. People who are set deeply in their way and aren't ready for a change don't change that quickly. She was on the verge. A grabbing bruise she could rationalize away, but the cut on her cheek I think would have been the turning point. That you can't call anything but abuse. -- Theresa, 21:04:18 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> ITA with you that if Denise wasn't at the point of being ready no coaxing from Roxy would have helped. She would have truly been looking up at Roxy from the floor, LOL! -- Jubellant, 01:55:31 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> I think it's looking too deep to say he did it to get back at his dad. When people are in a rage and they just snap, they don't plot and plan. Every time he hit his mother he was frustrated and couldn't hold his anger back. He can't stand the way his father controls him, and by extension gets incredibly angry when he feels like no one is listening and people are taking his father's side. His mother has always taken his father's side, not realizing that he doesn't want to be anything like his father. So he gets angry and smacks her. Not to get back at dad, but to take out the frustration on the closest and weakest person. Who, by extension of the situation is at least half to blame for his frustration. He just needs to control his temper. He went with instinct without intellect. -- Theresa, 20:59:15 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> I think your teminology of frustration is smack on Theresa and so much of what you stated rings true. He could have yelled at his mother to vent his frustation, broken every dish in the house or smacked a wall. The fact he used his mother as a punching back is VERY disturbing. I was with you on this until I read he just needs to control his temper. Maybe the word just seemed to tivialize the problem though I know it wasn't the intent meant here.What instict says to strike a defenseless person? -- Jube, 01:05:36 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> As you can see I pressed the enter key early. I mean terminology, and trivialize, and instinct. I'm not using my computer and the keys tend to stick a bit. Sorry! -- Jubellent, 01:08:56 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> Lots of people instinctually want to smack someone. Who doesn't at one time or another? Especially if it's someone who is supposed to be on your side and they seem like they're not. Boiling it down to a simple "he needs to control his temper" doesn't make it trivial, it's just boiled down to the basic element. If he controlled his temper he never would have hurt her. It's a basic thing, that is damned difficult to do for some people. -- Theresa, 08:36:43 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> I hear what you are saying but we are not talking about a smack here. We are talking about real physical aggression intent on hurting his Mom! I'd hate to be the one to accidently cut this guy off on the road. -- Jubellant, 13:56:33 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> [> I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley either when he's angry and out of control. His instincts are primal without plotting. He flies off the handle with little regard and no control. I know a lot of people like that, and they need help. And we are talking about a smack here. He back handed his mother. Before that he'd just grabbed her. He lost his temper and few off the handle out of frustration. The last time he hurt her he was trying to tell her something and she was opposing him so he forcefully shut her up. He has no control, but pretty normal primal urges. He needs to control those urges and his temper. -- Theresa, 15:02:51 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> That's for sure. Many say that the abuser is really a nice guy/gal when not enraged about something. Often alcohol is in the mix as well though not necessarily in Jeremy's case. Maybe I'm wrong for coming down so hard on Jeremy and should point the finger at his parents instead for letting his rage (frustration?) go unnoticed to the point that it finally led him to act out. -- Jubellant, 15:16:49 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> You make a good point because alcohol tends to strip a person's reasoning and inhibitions and cause them to react only with primal instinct. Which is exactly what Jeremy was doing. -- Theresa, 15:38:32 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> iNot sure if it has been mentioned but the discussion on katherine Fugate's website about the Sherwood family is very interesting . This presentation of parent abuse is quite unique to Army Wives. it is "just a TV show' but the discussion of parent abuse is a real problem seldon discussed. A gold star to AW for opening this dark part of family life. Another gold star to this site for the great comments . -- Linda R, 03:19:48 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> If you scroll down a bit the Fugate discussion is mentioned and discussed a bit here. It is good to bring it up again though as a few additional comments have been added. Thanks. -- Jubellant, 05:55:00 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> I believe Jeremy took Denise’s threats seriously, but he didn’t fully realise the seriousness of his actions. Before you throw tomatoes at me, lol, let me say that I’m not implying that he was a poor little kid who couldn’t tell right from wrong so that should be his excuse. Far from it. He knew what he was doing, because he did it repeatedly and each time the violence escalated. So no excuse. But it is interesting to understand WHY he did it (again, without excusing him) because one should start from the cause in order to find a remedy.(inside) -- jo, 09:19:09 07/20/07 Fri [1]

Here I agree with Theresa, he was frustrated no one would listen to him, to what he wants, and he reacted violently. I think he was angry at his mother not only because she took his father’s side without considering Jeremy’s wishes, but also because of her perceived weakness. She wouldn’t say anything, she wouldn’t stop him. That’s why I believe that the time Denise told him that she would have him arrested was actually satisfying for him. She behaved like a mother in charge of things, and that’s what she actually was. He tried to reconnect with her afterwards, and I don’t believe it was a devious, cunning plot to assuage Col Holden’s or Amanda’s or anyone else’s reaction. The thing is, abusers might have 2 faces: the abuse and the caring, which makes them deranged IMO. Anyway, Jeremy was sorry and he was right when he said that sorry wasn’t enough. but it was a start: admitting what he had done, taking responsibility for his actions, because irrespective of his motives he had no right to even raise his hand at his mother, or anyone else. Maybe if they had been given some more time, ie if Frank’s chopper hadn’t gone down, they would have begun to sort it out. Together. Mother and son. That being said, I am not so sure he wouldn’t have hit her again. I do believe he has a major problem which should be specifically addressed, and boot camp is just not enough for his domestic violence issues.


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[> What I wonder since Denise put Jeremy in his place and he apologized we have not seen any signs of him being abusive either to her or Amanda. Not even any real anger. Is this normal if he really did have a temper problem it seems we should have seen it at some point since then. It just seems he has done a 180 with no in-between. It just seems a little weird so waiting to see if we see anymore of that anger. -- Hope, 09:36:35 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> it does seem a bit unrealistic for Jeremy to show no anger at all, even without being violent. maybe it's his dad's accident and the worry of not knowing whether he was dead or alive that had an impact on him, prompting his calmer behaviour. also, his mother's warning. Since he has no issues with Amanda, I don't see him being abusive to her right now (but who knows what he would do if one day she antagonized him for whatever reason...) -- jo, 10:43:42 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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