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Date Posted: 19:08:05 07/05/01 Thu
Author: Òðåéòÿê
Subject: Re: Ïîëÿíè
In reply to: Ëåì 's message, "Re: Ïîëÿíè" on 10:32:41 07/04/01 Wed

Ìîæëèâî, àëå çà âèñíîâêàìè àíòðîïîëîã³â ïîëÿíè íå áóëè ãåðìàíöÿìè, à áóëè ñïàäêîºìöÿìè ñêèòñüêîãî àíòðîïîëîã.òèïó

Íå áà÷ó æîäíèõ ïðîòèð³÷. ß âæå ñêàçàâ, ùî åòí³÷íå ïîõîäæåííÿ ìîæå áóòè é ³ðàíî-ñëîâ"ÿíñüêèì, àëå ïëåì"ÿ ãåðìàí³çîâàíèì. Òîáòî òàêèì, ùî ïåðåáðàëî ñîá³ ÷àñòèííî ãåðìàíñüêó ìîâó òà çâè÷à¿. Íàâ³òü ïîíàä Îç³âñüêèì ìîðåì çóñòð³÷àºìî ãåðìàí³çîâàí³ ³ðàíñüê³ ïëåìåíà.

Ðîêñîëàíè - "ðåêñ"+"àëàíè"=öàðñüê³ ñêèòè.

×îìó òè ïåðåêëàäàºø "àëàíè" ÿê "ñêèòè"? Àäæå â³äîìî, ùî àëàíè òî áóëî îäíå ç ÑÀÐÌÀÒÑÜÊÈÕ ïëåìåí, íàòîì³ñòü ñàðìàòè ñâîãî ÷àñó âîþâàëè ç³ ñêèòàìè é îñòàíí³ âíàñë³äîê ñâ ïîðàçêè âèìóøåí³ áóëè ïîñóíóòè íà ï³âäåíü, ó ϳâí³÷íèé Êðèì, ùå çà ê³ëüêà ñòîë³òü ïåðåä òèì, ÿê âïåðøå çóñòð³÷àºìî çãàäêó ïðî àëàí³â ÿê òàêèõ. Äî ðå÷³, ñêèòñüêå öàðñòâî ó Êðèìó ìຠäîñèòü äîâãó ³ñòîð³þ, âîíî ³ñíóâàëî âæå é çà÷àñ³â ðîêñàëàí³â. ² ùå, ÿ ÷óâ òðîõè â³äì³ííèé ïåðåêëàä ñëîâà ðîêñàëàíè - "áëèñêó÷³ àëàíè", â³äïîâ³äíî äî ³ðàíñüêî¿ ìîâè. Íàòîì³ñòü Rex º ëàòèíüêèì ñëîâîì.

Âñå áóëî á äîáðå, ÿêáè íå â³äì³ííèé àíòðîïîë.òèï. Àëºêñººâà, äîñë³äèâøè ÷åðåïè ç Êè¿â.íåêðîïîëÿ ³ ç³ñòàâèâøè ¿õ ç ãåðìàíñüêèìè, ïèøå:«Ýòî ñîïîñòàâëåíèå äàëî ïîðàçèòåëüíûå ðåçóëüòàòû: íè îäíà èç ñëàâÿíñêèõ ãðóïï íå îòëè÷àåòñÿ â òàêîé ìåðå îò ãåðìàíñêèõ, êàê ãîðîäñêîå íàñåëåíèå Êèåâà. Òàêèì îáðàçîì, ñëåäóåò ïðèçíàòü, ÷òî â ñîñòàâå äðóæèíû êèåâñêîãî êíÿçÿ íîðìàííîâ áûëî ÷ðåçâû÷àéíî ìàëî…».

Òîáòî òè ìàºø íà óâàç³, ùî òàì ïåðåâàæຠ³ðàíñüêèé òèï ÷è ùî?

À òàì íå ò³ëüêè "ïîëåíèöÿ", òàì âñ³ íàâåäåí³ ñëîâà íàëåæàòü â³éñüêîâ³é ñôåð³ ³ ìàþòü áóòè óòâîðåí³ â³ä ñï³ëüíîãî êîðåíÿ:
ïîëþâàòè (îäíàêîâî - íà âîðîãà ÷è íà çâ³ðà), ïîëîíèòè, ðîñ.³ñïîë³í òîãî ñàìîãî êîðåíÿ. ß äóìàþ, øóêàòè òðåáà ó öüîìó íàïðÿìêó, à íå ïðèâ"ÿçóâàòè äî ïîëÿ. ßêå òàì â á³ñà ïîëå ó òîìó ðå´³îí³? ͳêîëè íå áóëî ³ ïîíèí³ íåìàº.

Àáñîëþòíî òàê. Æîäíîãî ïîëÿ òàì íåìຠñüîãîäí³, íå áóëî ðàí³øå, é òèì ïà÷å íå ìîãëî áóòè â òîìó äàâíüîìó ÷àñ³. Ðåã³îí íà ï³âäåíü â³ä Êèºâà ïðèáëèçíî äî ×åðêàñ òî º ë³ñîñòåï, à íà ï³âí³÷ â³ä Êèºâà âæå ë³ñîâà ñìóãà. Äî ðå÷³, ÿêðàç òèì ë³ñîñòåïîì é ïðîõîäèâ êîðäîí ì³æ ñëîâ"ÿíàìè òà ³ðàíöÿìè ìàáóòü ùå ïåðåä ïðèáóòòÿì â Óêðà¿íó ãåðìàíö³â. ͳ, ïîëå òóò ÿâíî í³ äî ÷îãî. Îñîáëèâî êîëè éäåòüñÿ çà âîéîâíè÷å ïëåì"ÿ.
Àëå òóò íàøòîâõóºìîñü íà òàêèé íåçá³ã:
"áî ó êåëüòñüêèõ ìîâàõ, ÿêùî ÿ í³÷îãî íå íàïëóòàâ, êîð³íü "ðóñ" îçíà÷ຠïîëå. Ìàºìî ö³êàâó àíàëîã³þ."

Âèõîäèòü ùî ïåðøå òâîº ðå÷åííÿ ñóïåðå÷èòü îñòàííüîìó :)
Òîáòî îñòàííÿ âåðñ³ÿ ïîâí³ñòþ ñïðîñòîâóº é âèêëþ÷ຠïåðøó.
ßêùî ïîãîäèòèñü ç îñòàííüîþ, òî ùåçຠîñòàíí³é çâ"ÿçîê ç êåëüòàìè, âæå é òàê ïîñëàáëåíèé ôàêòîì äîì³íóâàííÿ â ïîëÿí ³ðàíñüêîãî àíòðîïîëîã³÷íîãî òèïó. (³ðàíñüêèé òèï º äóæå äàëåêèì â³ä êåëüòñüêîãî, â³í º ùå äàëüøèì çà íïð. ãåðìàíñüêèé, ÷è íå òàê?)


Òî â Íåñòîðà áóëà òàê çâàíà íàðîäíà åòèìîëîã³ÿ, òîáòî äî òîãî ÷àñó çíà÷åííÿ âæå ïðèçàáóëîñÿ - çíà÷èòü, åòíîñ áóâ âæå íåìîëîäèì

Çâè÷àéíî, ùî íåìîëîäèì. Çà íàéìåíøèì ï³äðàõóíêîì â³í íàðàõóâàâ â ÷àñ³ Íåñòîðà âæå 6 ñòîë³òü (ÿêùî çãàäàòè Êèÿ), àëå àðõåîëîã³÷í³ äîñë³äæåííÿ ïîêàçóþòü, ùî òàì ³ ðàí³øå ³ñíóâàëî âåëèêå ñåëèùå. Òîæ ÷îìó á ò³ çåìë³ íå ìîãëè çàñåëþâàòè ïðåäêè ïîëÿí?

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