To send feedback,report a beta bug, or request a code for a login ID, please use
this form and we will try to address the issue as quickly as we can.
We are looking for moderators for this forum. If you want a quality forum, and you feel your fellow posters will respect and support you as a moderator, please step up and volunteer. If you are interested in this, please use this form and describe yourself a little.
We are still having issues with Hotmail sending our mail to their junk/spam folders. If you've requested a code in the past and never received one, please request again with an alternate email OR make sure you check and approve our address in your spam folders/filters. If you still experience problems, please email us through this form describing the problem.
there's a reason Gurk keeps an unexperienced hand on deck -- Bullishonbronze, 21:28:57 02/22/12 Wed
sometimes experience can be a liability, so good to have a greenhorn around. Whereas Sinclair is surrounded by yes-men eager to listen to his 1970s80s yarns, gold&mining market.
regarding the general equity market, Sinclair is content to only focus upon supposed unlimited government stimulus and ignore the very same factors he discusses about mining companies:
☑ the rot that is corporate earnings-decline (in the case of miners, subtraction from profits of input costs):
The fudging and fixing of the economic data in the us -- AZAU, 20:55:40 02/22/12 Wed
will crescendo through this election year, the lies getting more blatant and extreme than ever, as are the promises for prosperity just around the corner. This time however, flooding the system with new Q.E.xyz will zoom the inflation and create another real estate bubble and run cost of living to the moon. The Fools Parade, or Mardi Gras, is just a party-prelude to fattening of the pigs and sheep for severe austerity, and even slaughter. The US economy has no underpinning strength and is a hollow transaction machine that produces little more than more transactions....Gold will profit accordingly.
Greece.....and the very same people are still in charge of the -- AZAU, 20:42:49 02/22/12 Wed
greek government that grossly mismanaged the country for the number of years it took to put it into this dire straits...and like the engineered collapse of lehmann bros.and the us banking system, the same folks who created these crises are the ones who enhance their own power and vastly increase their private wealth. Let the evidence show these are sociopathic, psychotic retards that society continues to put into power until the system breaks down. There is no other plausible explanation.
Greece is in "receivership" or "administration", for all purposes... -- AZAU (), 20:25:31 02/22/12 Wed
with permanent loss of sovereignty, unless the people take it back....
Greece says the €130bn bailout will "bind" it to the euro. Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said:
Quote: "The agreement is of historic importance, because it binds Greece to the euro. It was not only the approval of the €130bn in additional support for Greece. But this also comes with a European commitment... of support for as long as in necessary for Greece to return to the markets.
This is a decisive and irreversible action by our partners: Greece is a member of the euro and will remain a member of the euro and there is no issue of bankruptcy, there is no issue of the country's financial collapse."
___________________
"Those that trade their freedom for security, will end up with neither."
Last edited by author: Wed February 22, 2012 20:27:08
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
-- -- Winston, 20:22:55 02/22/12 Wed
“They are also concerned that the argument for enforcing non-proliferation of nuclear weapons is being invoked to hide the desire to re-carve the geopolitical map of the large hydrocarbon-rich region which includes Central Asia,” said Mr. Lukashevich.
They would write the policy only if he and his wife agreed to take statin drugs. -- b_w, 19:59:25 02/22/12 Wed
I am afraid statins like "vaccination" are an HHS approved depopulation tool. Some fools are trying to get statins put in our water. Hey why not it can kill us along with the killer fluoride.
Picture about 10 to 20 Russian bases in Canada, about as many in Mexico and a few dozen naval carrier battle groups in the Atlantic and Pacific one hundred miles offshore. That is what Russia is facing with the USSA and NATO.
WWIII is going to be a WORLD war but it may be as "real" as 9/11.
Energy Institute of the University of Texas at Austin -- mercury, 19:37:31 02/22/12 Wed
Finds no no direct link between fracking and groundwater contamination
Skinee -- Carmack, 19:26:31 02/22/12 Wed
Four young childern were burned alive in a house fire, not far from here, on Tues. The guy in the sky must have been on a coffee break !
b_w -- Carmack, 19:21:52 02/22/12 Wed
Hi . Have you heard of this one and wonder how widespread it might be ? A relative was looking for life insurance to replace mortgage life insurance and was told they would write the policy only if he and his wife agreed to take statin drugs. He told them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
At that rate every 1000 policies would mean one million dollars/yr for the drug companies . Nice ! Possible kickbacks?Noooo. lol
update 2 -- trotsky, 19:02:32 02/22/12 Wed
Has Real Estate Hit Bottom? by Ramsey Su
Ramsey looks at the question whether real estate has hit the bottom, which has lately crept up more frequently again. As he notes, the question hardly makes sense in a market where government entities provide 90% of credit and that has been distorted by one intervention after another. What will this market look like when all the artificial support is removed? That is the real question. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14771
The Age of Kremlinology
With the activities of central banks nowadays the major factor moving markets, we are happy to report that a recent WSJ article confirms what we have said all along: parsing the utterances of the monetary bureaucrats is the functional equivalent of 'Kremlinology' - the parsing of the Soviet politbureau's statements during the cold war.
There is another similarity: during the cold war, the CIA overestimated the military and economic prowess of the Soviet bloc by an order of magnitude, which caused the birth of entire political movements such as the neo-conservatives and no doubt greatly contributed to the unchecked growth of the military-industrial complex. When the COMECON collapsed, people were shocked to find out how profoundly bankrupt it really was. Even the supposed 'economic powerhouse' of the Eastern Bloc, the GDR, was nothing but a Potemkin village (and even its facades were crumbling).
Today, a similar mistake is made when assessing the prowess of the monetary bureaucracy. While its activities certainly influence markets in the short to medium term, it by no means has them 'under control'. The myth of the omnipotence of central banks is one that is bound to produce a major disappointment for the faithful, who even after the 2008 debacle still hold fast to their conviction that the markets will always obey the wishes of the planners. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14789
discovered its use as part of an hangover remedy (it is involved with the detoxifying enzyme that manages aldehyde, a dangerous byproduct of alcohol metabolism). ... Like zinc, have to be careful with its displacement of copper.
Hey Mozel -- Skinee, 17:36:47 02/22/12 Wed
Could you talk to the big man in the sky for me to help my stocks out.
He never listens to me, maybe it is my accent and I am hard to undersatand.
He knows Hebrew best the Jews told me so.
@mercury -- mozel, 17:28:35 02/22/12 Wed
living room Freedom is rather constrained at best, isn't it ??? What are the outdoors for ??? Collect .. hoard .. sip ... guzzle ... let freedom ring ...
Is your complex line theory related to string theory ???
Bulish/ pigs -- Sherlock (), 17:23:42 02/22/12 Wed
When the golden pigs fly, I hope I have a few. I used to think DRD gold was a pig. Somehow it turned into my best performer. How the hell did that happen ? Speaking of Pork Pies? My Mother's good friend owned a family pork pie bakery. they probably weren't good for me, but I used to love them. I believe they sold the company after the death of her husband years ago. she use to bring several over whenever she visited. I saw her at my mother's funeral.http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Reviews/7284/hartleys-original-pork-pies
Last edited by author: Wed February 22, 2012 17:32:51
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
@the greeks -morbius -- Smythe, 17:17:47 02/22/12 Wed
I think the name is "revolution". It is dawning on them that they have been occupied by a foreign banker coup, and the people are now mobilizing. The greeks are certainly not cowards.
PM stocks up two days in a row ! -- Sherlock, 17:04:16 02/22/12 Wed -- Bullishonbronze, 17:15:15 02/22/12 Wed
a fortnight ago when made a very large SLGLF limit bid jus'for'thehulavit. Could not get filled. Thas when we decided to start buying the other miners and diggers. SLGLF is a pig, but it is a pig's pig. And if one can interpret its oinks, then one can get the porkie pie.
Yamana Gold Announces Record Fourth Quarter & Year End 2011 Results -- Sherlock, 17:12:28 02/22/12 Wed
Revenue Increases 29%, Operating Cash Flow Increases 48%, Adjusted Earnings Increase 59%
TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire -02/22/12)- YAMANA GOLD INC. (TSX: YRI.TO - News)(NYSE: AUY - News)(LSE: YAU.L - News) ("Yamana" or "the Company") today announced its financial and operating results for the fourth quarter and full year 2011.
HIGHLIGHTS FOR THE YEAR 2011 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Yamana-Gold-Announces-Record-iw-1262799299.html?x=0
Oil ends at 9-month high on supply worries -- Sherlock, 17:06:48 02/22/12 Wed
By Claudia Assis and Sara Sjolin, MarketWatch
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Crude-oil futures inched higher Wednesday, supported by persistent fears of supply disruption and pessimism about the global oil supply outlook.
PM stocks up two days in a row ! -- Sherlock, 17:04:16 02/22/12 Wed
GLD + 0.94% and GDX +1.76%. Finally some progress, and a little bit of divergence from the rest of stock market to boot.
SLV -0.12% and SIL +1.11%. Not bad since it got no help from silver price.
GDXJ +2.06%. Juniors continue to play catch-up. But they still have a long way to go.
Can they make it three days in a row? That might be asking for a bit too much.
I wonder what the Aussie gold shares will do on open -- WIFFO, 16:49:29 02/22/12 Wed
they have been banged down to unrealistic levels and now clearly undervalued. I got so sick of it that I sold most of my portfolio of Oz goldies for base metals....good that I did so.
Speaking of discourse -- RIP, 16:42:34 02/22/12 Wed
...that GOP debate tonight should be a beauty.
Newtster has nothing to lose....except Adelson's money.
Will Santorum show up in a sweater vest?
Will Mutt bring Seamus' ghost?
Will Paul get in a word?
nice quote mercury..... -- WIFFO, 16:36:40 02/22/12 Wed
"Hard to determine what has devaluated quicker, the value of the nation's currency or public discourse..."
Well, a line would be ecumenical -- mercury, 16:29:08 02/22/12 Wed
when differentiating different church dogma
From my experience they, too, are compelled to draw a line in the sand to differentiate them from each other.
Thought, when examining a spectrum – the shades of light are known and fixed to mere angstroms. Hence one must discern what is already fixed immutable in the light what upon first blush appears as a prismatic blur.
The only wild card is during a total eclipse of the sun. The length of the band BETWEEN the visible spectrum of light provides a UNIQUE fingerprint of each total solar eclipse.
(The band is the absence of direct light hitting the earth, the only light reaching the planet during totality is bent around the moon by that body’s gravitational effects).
Though either of those examples prove WAY more complex than that sight when someone obviously has so much crap in their living room it clearly impedes Upon their Freedom.
Back-of-the-Magazine Ads for Coins – Popular Mechanics 1949 -- mercury, 16:14:47 02/22/12 Wed
There were several columns wanting to buy/sell stamps, less than one column for coins.
Hope your dad/granpa chose the road less travelled, and that you found this as interesting as did I...
@mercury @spectrum ??? that's ecumenical sounding ... -- mozel, 16:06:21 02/22/12 Wed
if you're into it, you have to draw a line somewhere, don't you ???
I admit a total lack of understanding of profitable collecting, which seems to me to depend on knowledge of the location of a greater fool or, very probable location, anyway. For instance, I would not give $8 for a 1961 Playboy ... or any part thereof ... in any condition ... except now that I know you know somebody who would give $8K ...
This is exactly why I have zero fear of naked shorts -- RIP, 15:55:58 02/22/12 Wed
The crime in many junior companies is not in naked shorts.
It is the crime of making promises they know they cannot meet.
Out with the old.
In with the new.
Vancouver works this cyclical game of recycled properties like a Stradivarius.
A few of the crooked senior management (redundant) at that government boilerplate operation already salted away a few error notes for their private consideration and profit.
People claimed manipulation at Brown's Bottom -- RIP, 15:49:18 02/22/12 Wed
Was it manipulated...really?
Was Greece manipulated?
Like I said....everyone will 'manipulate' to the the extent they are able, in order to maximize profits, or minimize pain.
But the market is waaaayyy bigger than any of them.
As long as they are given a chance.
good reply mozel -- mercury, 15:38:01 02/22/12 Wed
suppose where you expect a line I experience a spectrum...with bands of light both known, fixed and regular
RIP - The point is, that our institutions are riddled with FRAUD -- morbius, 15:28:45 02/22/12 Wed
and obviously totally corrupt. Therefore one can (well Boobus can) easily draw the conclusion that there is no, there can be no manipulation.
RIP - Maybe Disney could let one of his poodles -- morbius, 15:24:39 02/22/12 Wed
sniff the vault door at Fort Knox and get an 'indication' that would allow him to conduct a thorough search.
RIP - It's really interesting... -- morbius, 15:15:27 02/22/12 Wed
The DHS is constantly expanding its list of terrorist 'tells'...
Pay with cash? You could be a terrist.
Concerned with privacy? You could be a terrist.
Quote the constitution? You could be a terrist.
Attempt to conceal your computer screen from view? You could be a terrist.
...but obstruct for decades an audit of Fort Knox? Naah...nothing suspicious there!
@all at the same time -- Smythe, 15:14:06 02/22/12 Wed
The FED can keep buying t-bonds until they get tendonitis in the keystroke finger. If not by QEx, then by swaps, via tax havens, cronies, or any other method that you can dream of and many that you can't. After all, if they can shovel $26trillion out the back door to the banks without saying "Boo", they can pretty much do anything under the sun. This may not be market manipulation, call it discovery yet to be discovered. Because even fraud is just a deferred market signal.
Hey....each one of those pieces of paper is backed by a bigger fool. -- RIP, 15:01:35 02/22/12 Wed
If you wanna say they are wrong...like you have for years...go right ahead.
As for GLD....I have never been a fan.
But the market will understand GLD for what it is.
Do you doubt that?
As for Ft. Knox gold. If it's tungsten...then I don't know what to say.
I know. There is no manipulation. -- morbius (), 14:56:28 02/22/12 Wed
There couldn't POSSIBLY be any manipulation. In American Institutions? LOL. Never. Like I said, Honest as the Day is Long. Every one of those pieces of paper at the precious metal ETFs and COMEX is fully backed (just like the dollar was before 1933)....and all those thousands of tons of gold.....safe in Fort Knox, same as it always was....
Just because they refuse to allow an audit...that don't mean nothing. Just trying to save the taxpayers money. Our representatives are good about that kind of thing. Buy U.S. Bonds with confidence. There's a good business for you!
Last edited by author: Wed February 22, 2012 15:00:52
Edited 2 times. [ Edit | View ]
Orange Juice Futures -- forthecraic, 14:52:45 02/22/12 Wed
Going long or short?
Keiser Report: Hang-a-Banker-a-Week! -- Sherlock, 14:46:48 02/22/12 Wed
Uploaded by RussiaToday on Feb 21, 2012
In this episode, Max Keiser and co-host, Stacy Herbert, discuss London bars and cafes introducing Facewatch for criminals on the lower ladder of crime while Mayoral candidate, Ken Livingstone, proposes an all together different solution to end the banking crime wave higher up the ladder. They also discuss Greek heists and tweets from Syntagma Square. In the second half of the show, Max talks to Zeus Yiamouyiannis about Greek tragedies and Greek solutions....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Ex4okWm-M&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg&index=11&feature=plcp
OK. OK....Americans aren't that bright -- RIP (), 14:40:49 02/22/12 Wed
But IMO, neither are people who preach peak oil and manipulation.
And that crosses many boundaries.
Last edited by author: Wed February 22, 2012 14:42:18
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
Sour grapes has got nothing to do with it. -- morbius, 14:36:15 02/22/12 Wed
Boobus AmericANUS sits by stupidly while tyrants craft and fund a Police State with Fiat money. Fiat profits on mining shares is not the issue, man. Who do you think you are talking to, Hambone?
Sludge, gold and Ron Paul would be doing much better now -- morbius, 14:28:28 02/22/12 Wed
if intelligence were not in such short supply. Burnt by Greek Bonds? Double down with the Bonds of Uncle Sam. Honest as the day is long.
Just got back from the auction preview RM Sotheby -- Skinee, 14:25:07 02/22/12 Wed
at Boca Raton, this is something to see, going back to the auction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oRJFdQNKtY
@mercury -- mozel, 14:24:59 02/22/12 Wed
'tis a greater fool who would delay a fool from his errand ... and I do think drawing a religious line twixt collecting and hoarding is a fool's errand ... neither activity will break my leg ... may hoarders have perfect liberty in their opinion, so long, that is, that it's not commodities being hoarded ...
FDR, like Lenin, was of the opinion that monetary gold is a commodity ... if we have freedom of opinion, I do not share their view ...
--the adults have entered the room... -- Winston, 14:17:21 02/22/12 Wed
"The scenario of military action against Iran would be catastrophic for the region and possibly the whole system of international relations," Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said on Wednesday.
“Therefore I hope Israel understands all these consequences ... and they should also consider the consequences of such action for themselves," the Russian official added. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/228019.html
update -- trotsky, 14:13:51 02/22/12 Wed
Post Greek Rescue Credit Market Update - LTRO 2.1 A Damp Squib?
We are updating the usual suspects (CDS; yields, basis swaps) in the euro area and elsewhere following the Greek bailout. As might be expected, credit market conditions have eased further, with the sole exception of - Greece!
CDS on Greece have become a valid hedge again, now that it has become almost certain that the Greek government will attempt to force compliance by private sector bond holders by retroactively introducing collective action clauses. This has been made possible by the ECB's bond swap that has transformed the ECB into the senior bondholder exempt from such clauses.
We are beginning to wonder whether the widely anticipated LTRO 2.1 at the end of February will not turn into a damp squib. Remember that the December LTRO was widely panned by financial market observers and not expected to have any effect on bond yields in the euro area. The idea that banks might enter into carry trades was considered preposterous. Alas, this is precisely what happened in the end. The expectations regarding the second LTRO iteration couldn't possibly be more different. Now everybody is betting that the 'risk on' trade will get another shot in the arm when the ECB doles out even more free money next week. No-one seems to consider that it may already be priced in and then some. In fact, the plethora of technical divergences in the stock market suggests to us that 'risk assets' will soon be in trouble again. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14746
mozel, so you're putting me on notice that -- mercury, 13:55:11 02/22/12 Wed
you cannot discern between a collector and a hoarder?
an imbiber and an alcoholic?
or that I am unable to do such?
or that it is a fool's errand, and thus neither of us need apply?
Mass Media has enabled public and private secret agencies to manufacture news -- mozel, 13:49:01 02/22/12 Wed
... and they have not been reluctant in exploiting this new power over opinion ... by correspondents and through leaks and reports and even "studies", given under divers covers and colors and even Anonymously ... none of it is more real than its self-serving sponsors ...
If you remember to sell gold in the morning -- RIP, 13:43:04 02/22/12 Wed
...and buy it in the afternoon.....you will have a one way ticket to the poor house.
Dear Capetown SA ... as the home of the world's leading authority -- mozel, 13:15:43 02/22/12 Wed
on the health benefits of nuclear radiation, we hope to hear from you soon on our offer to ship nuclear radiating materials to you in any quantity free of charge ... Hanford USSA
@the house of lords raises for the 2nd time -- Smythe (), 12:31:47 02/22/12 Wed
the small matter of £15 trillion being laundered through HSBC bank
See from 5:20 pm Lord James of Blackheath :
"There are three possible conclusions which may come from it. First, there may have been a massive piece of money-laundering committed by a major Government who should know better. Effectively, it undermined the integrity of a British bank, the Royal Bank of Scotland, in doing so. The second possibility is that a major American department has an agency which has gone rogue on it because it has been wound up and has created a structure out of which it is seeking to get at least €50 billion as a pay-off. The third possibility is that this is an extraordinarily elaborate fraud, which has not been carried out, but which has been prepared to provide a threat to one Government or more if they do not make a pay-off. These three possibilities need an urgent review.
In April and May 2009, the situation started with the alleged transfer of $5 trillion to HSBC in the United Kingdom. Seven days later, another $5 trillion came to HSBC and three weeks later another $5 trillion. A total of $15 trillion is alleged to have been passed into the hands of HSBC for onward transit to the Royal Bank of Scotland. We need to look to where this came from and the history of this money. I have been trying to sort out the sequence by which this money has been created and where it has come from for a long time."
I should addd that BlackHeath says : "each of the $5 trillion payments that came in has been acknowledged and receipted by senior executives at HSBC and again receipted by senior executives at the Royal Bank of Scotland."
Maybe it is BS. Someone is lying.
Last edited by author: Wed February 22, 2012 12:37:29
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
Anonymous Hacks Greek Ministry Website, Demands IMF Withdrawal -- Caper, 12:02:19 02/22/12 Wed
Anonymous Hacks Greek Ministry Website, Demands IMF Withdrawal, Threatens It Will Wipe Away All Citizen Debts
health benefits of radiation -- johnny, 10:27:32 02/22/12 Wed
required reading for troll island harpies .. led by the
fighting canary sir tweettweet elix
@default by any other name.... -- Smythe, 09:07:12 02/22/12 Wed
Except they won't call it that , because such a "credit event" would mean the banks have to pay out on CDS. The game is rigged. The banks can make as much free money as they want by positioning themselves against small sitting duck countries accordingly, and then getting the guy in the next office next in the same building called "Ratings Man" to downgrade. Repeat ad nauseam, but never do it in the banks' host country, where they lobbied for laws to protect them. So here we have the UK, probably the most indebted basket case in the world but with a huge banking sector and little else, sporting a pristine AAA.
default by any other name.... -- AZAU, 08:27:17 02/22/12 Wed
Fitch says it will re-rate Greece once the debt-swap has completed, likely to "RD" - or restricted default. More from Fitch:
Quote In Fitch's opinion, the exchange, if completed, would constitute a 'distressed debt exchange' (DDE) in line with its criteria and consequently yesterday's announcements set in motion the agency's process for reviewing Greece's issuer and debt securities ratings. The sovereign IDR has accordingly been lowered to 'C' from 'CCC' indicating that default is highly likely in the near term. The ratings of the securities subject to the exchange have also been lowered to 'C' from 'CCC'.
Fitch considers that the proposal to reduce Greece's public debt burden via a debt exchange with private creditors will, if completed, constitute a rating default, and result in the country's IDR being lowered to 'Restricted Default' ('RD') upon completion. The ratings of GGBs affected by the exchange, including those not tendered but restructured under CACs, which are expected to be imposed retrospectively on bonds issued under Greek law, will also be lowered to 'D' ('default') at this time.
fitch downgrades greece to lower than junk... -- AZAU, 08:20:20 02/22/12 Wed
Fitch downgrades Greece
Fitch ratings agency downgrades Greece from CCC to C, indicating default 'highly likely'
Associated PressAssociated Press – 1 hour 28 minutes ago
ATHENS, Greece (AP) -- Fitch ratings agency says it has downgraded Greece further into junk status, from 'CCC' to 'C' following the announcement of the details of the country's debt swap deal with private creditors.
The agency said Wednesday the downgrade indicated "that default is highly likely in the near term." In June, the agency had said it would consider Greece to be in restricted default if the bond swap deal went ahead.
The bond swap deal with private creditors will see euro107 billion ($141 billion) of Greece's debt held by banks and other private holders of government bonds written off.,,,"
______________
Nothing like having a fat boy in charge to tell people to tighten their belts....
Watermelons Lower Blood Pressure as well as Statins & Provide many other Benefits -- Caper, 04:39:44 02/22/12 Wed
Watermelons Lower Blood Pressure as well as Statins & Provide many other Benefits
DROOY etc -- nogtans, 03:38:52 02/22/12 Wed
did they de-list on the NYSE ?
Looks more and more like a cow , a cash cow since they exited deep mining and do mine dumps.I may even buy some.
PAN--close to overpriced perhaps
Gold One---synergy with GFI in an Ergo-like mine dump project--may be nice
Anglogold is getting close to a good price
Must say the Impala story is giving me the heeby-jeebies
@"bondholders of Greek government bonds face a 74% haircut" -- mozel, 01:23:54 02/22/12 Wed
haircuts for guys wearing wigs ??? This cut is on "wig money" made out of thin air and loaned to tax farming scoundrels for blood drawn from human veins ...
it's the Jew 'Swap Real for Counterfeit' Game again ...
Now are you happy? -- morbius, 01:04:19 02/22/12 Wed
Nah. We want them to get a haircut a little farther down - just below the chin would be about right.
At least they got something, they would have nothing under your prefered scenario. -- WIFFO, 00:39:34 02/22/12 Wed
stay short Azau, stay short.....then will get to know how how your Greek buddies feel.
yes Azau and bondholders of Greek government bonds face a 74% haircut -- WIFFO, 00:36:39 02/22/12 Wed
that's up from 50% and up from 70%.
Now are you happy?
Doomed supertanker...... -- AZAU, 20:58:14 02/21/12 Tue
Dallarious and Doolally, the eurozone supertanker sails towards the rocks
By Jeremy Warner Economics Last updated: February 21st, 2012
Heading for disaster?
All these eurozone leaders and bankers, they must know, mustn't they, that the game is as good as up and that in signing the latest €130bn Greek bailout cheque, they are only throwing good money after bad?
Well if they do, they are still not saying, despite the emergence of a "strictly confidential" debt sustainability report which gave the lie to the assertion that the new package would solve the problem.
Take Charles Dallara, or Doolally, as he should perhaps be rechristened. As managing director of the Institute of International Finance, he's the man who has been negotiating on behalf of bankers on what size of haircut to apply to the outstanding stock of Greek sovereign debt.
Having eventually conceded a 53.5pc write-off, equal to 70pc in terms of net present value, he was quite optimistic about Greece getting back to debt sustainability. Growth was the key, he told Bloomberg television. If Greece could get growth, then it could easily live with the envisaged debt burden of 120pc of GDP.
Unfortunately, growth is one of the many things the Greeks don't have, and, according to the eurozone's own analysis, are most unlikely to get – in large part as a direct result of the eurozone's own policy prescription of never-ending austerity.
Mr Dallara must surely know that the plan is based on completely unrealistic economic assumptions, and therefore cannot succeed on the terms proposed.
Here's what the debt sustainability report had to say on the matter:
Moreover, there is a fundamental tension between the program objectives of reducing debt and improving competitiveness, in that the internal devaluation needed to restore Greece's competitiveness will inevitably lead to a higher debt to GDP ratio in the near term.
But Mr Doolally's silliest remark was to cite Japan, with public indebtedness of more than 200pc of GDP, to support the contention that Greece can easily live with 120pc. The key differences are that Japan has hardly any external indebtedness, that its entire stock of debt is financed by domestic savers, that it has a relatively low tax burden, which means it could easily get on top of its debts if it wanted to, and that it is one of the world's largest economies, is highly competitive in key sectors, and most of the time maintains a strong current account surplus.
Greece is none of these things; if Mr Dallara doesn't know it, he really shouldn't be a banker. Nonetheless, he's hardly alone. Britain too will be in for its IMF share of a bailout which every cabinet member must know cannot succeed. It is as if we are stuck on a supertanker heading for the rocks and somehow, despite not even being in the eurozone, unable to get off.
____________
aye....headed for the rocks!
meet greece's saviour........chief of the PIGS -- AZAU (), 20:46:56 02/21/12 Tue
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 20:50:53
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
miro......you are not too old, just too smart. -- AZAU, 20:43:08 02/21/12 Tue
don' let rip work his confusion on you. Keep clear of rip's riddles and ringling acts, and you'll be ok. He's ammoniated and intoxicated with his own sh*t.
You don't even understand what I said --- RIP -- Miro, 19:32:48 02/21/12 Tue
I know, as you speak nonsense most of the time. So yeah, I don't understand you, you are from a different planet :)
I am too old to try to learn your language, as it's nothing I hear around here, it may sound as English but it's mostly bullshit.
Quake in Missouri -- Sherlock -- ROAN, 19:07:11 02/21/12 Tue -- zygoat (), 19:18:21 02/21/12 Tue
they have been preparing for this since they put those 3 dams on 3 big rivers to compress the fault in WKY....then the BP gulf debacle last year to relieve pressure on the lower end...they can pull the trigger whenever they want to imo
when they do everything east of the Mississippi will shake, since it is all sitting on the same big ole slab of bedrock
everything for hundreds of miles up the river will be underwater...not sure how long the whole process will take, but am finishing packing my get out of dodge bag tonight
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 19:20:05
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
@Bullish -- mozel, 19:16:37 02/21/12 Tue
My apologies for using you as the perfect foil for purposes of demonstration ... quo vadis ???
mozel has finally connected the dots between Judaism and Catholicism. RIP -- Miro, 18:49:36 02/21/12 Tue
you mean the Mozel the Jew speaks Latin and accuses Christians to be liberal?
mozel got it all figured out and who takes which elevator up or down -- Bullishonbronze, 18:39:23 02/21/12 Tue the dead language, Latin as opposed to the language of Hollywood, which is English.
mozel is so deep in sin he cannot see past his nose
roguepierre -- WileE, 18:25:59 02/21/12 Tue
if you're checkin' in here
you must of pushed your soul in a deep dark hole and then followed it in.
Good to see you though.
Although informed by "Catholic" Jesuit doctrines, -- mozel, 18:01:44 02/21/12 Tue
Austrian economics accepts and even justifies usury, which is contrary to the following Bible verses: Psalm 15:5, Exodus 22:25, and Leviticus 25:36-37. http://www.henrymakow.com/
They would re-confine the Word of God Almighty to the dead language, Latin, if they could.
Ron Paul is sponsored by Peter Thiel, a steering Bilderberger -- mozel, 17:51:11 02/21/12 Tue
all organized opposition is faux and controlled by its opposite ... http://www.henrymakow.com/
lots of rigging today, very rare for TZA to be up and SP even -- zygoat, 17:22:27 02/21/12 Tue
[ Edit | View ]
@you know the markets are rigged -- Smythe, 16:48:08 02/21/12 Tue
When nobody can get paid out until the fat guy rings the bell, and the fat guy works for the insurer. Free markets, my ass..
" It could, at least, unless the
ca-sin-o is rigged. Another a
"credit event" is a "default"
triggering a payout is
determined by the International
Swaps and Derivatives
Association (ISDA), and it seems
that the ISDA is owned by the
world's largest banks and hedge
funds. That means the house
determines whether the house
has to pay."
Quake in Missouri -- Sherlock, 16:31:17 02/21/12 Tue
The quake had a depth of only 5 KM and many folks felt it. They're not common in this area. unlike the west coast and Hawaii. Hopefully, this is not a warmup for things to come. ---------------------------------------Anniston - I heard a loud boom, woke me up. Then the house was shaking. The bed was shaking. I heard stuff falling everywhere.
Fredericktown - I live just a little north west of Fredericktown and felt the quake. I just thought it was a storm and closed my window.
East Prairie - Felt shaking In East Prairie! Woken up! Hopefully nothing later!!
East Prairie - I live in East Prairie and it woke me up, I told my husband "is that an earthquake" lasted only a few seconds
Jackson, MO - Shaking lampshades awakened me at 3:58 a.m.
Dyersburg, TN - Heard it east of Dyersburg, TN
East Prairie - Woke me and my dog up. Heard a loud humming rumbling sound. Crazy! I'm outside of East Prairie.
Benton, MO - There was a loud thunder like boom that came with it.... On top of the shaking that was really scary here in Benton, mo
Bertrand - I live in bertrand and it sounded like a loud rumble..close to thunder but a lot stronger..I don't recall any shaking tho.. must have slept thru that part??
Cape Girardeau - We felt it in Cape Girardeau. Woke up to rattling and rumbling.
Morehouse, Mo - We live in Morehouse, Mo and it awoke me and my husband.It caused the house to shake my husband. Thought it was a train but with being in them before i knew it was an earthquake.
Marion, Il - I'm in Marion, Illinois.. Been working in the basement around that time and I didn't feel anything.
Union City, Tn - I live in Union City, Tn and the Quake woke me. The dishes in the house rattled you could hear the rumble. No apparent damage.
Murphysboro - In Murphysboro and I just thought it was the wind and got up and turned on the fan to drown the noise. 1 dog got up and moved. I was mad cause something woke me up
Massac County, IL - I felt it in northern Massac County, IL.
Parma, Mo. - Some people here in Parma, Mo. are saying they heard and felt it. i live here in Parma and did not hear a thing slept right threw it.
Sikeston, MO - Heard rumbling and house was shaking. Couldn't sleep the rest of the night. Kept thinking a bigger one was going to follow
@ hedge funds and Greek debt -- RIP, 16:17:16 02/21/12 Tue
Are you daft?
If some funds are stuck with it....it is because they bought it at a steep discount to what the Euro banks originally paid for it.
Winston, 14:52:55 02/21/12 Tue -- Bullishonbronze -- RIP, 15:57:51 02/21/12 Tue
What rubbish.
The guy bought a $4500 ring within 15 seconds....and the merchant didn't even check the denomination of the bills(blanks).
Sherlock - 4.0s in Hawaii don't even shake -- morbius, 15:55:04 02/21/12 Tue
9 miles. We get many here of that magnitude that are unfelt just a few miles away.
4.0 earthquake in Missouri shakes 9 states -- Sherlock, 15:47:55 02/21/12 Tue
ST. LOUIS (AP) — Just days after the 200th anniversary of a series of massive earthquakes in southeast Missouri, residents woke up Tuesday to a rumbling reminder that they live in one of the continent's most active seismic areas....http://news.yahoo.com/4-0-earthquake-missouri-shakes-9-states-143958453.html
PM stock Pee-yew update -- Sherlock (), 15:10:36 02/21/12 Tue -- Bullishonbronze, 15:30:03 02/21/12 Tue
not saying it will happen, but given the PMs have so many of them for 1yr sucked, there's a theoretical possibility, on a sector rotational axis, that PMs might diverge from if a falling SMkt, unlike 2008. [emphasis: theoretical possibility]
-- -- Winston, 14:52:55 02/21/12 Tue -- Bullishonbronze, 15:18:37 02/21/12 Tue
we know from decades of Gestalt psychological research that much of what counts as reality is not the obvious aspects of the world (neither sense data nor common sense) but instead the imposition of the paradigm upon the world. In this case, the social ritual of transaction supersedes the sensory data. The reason the man at the hot dog stand did not fall for it was he is likely more so an immigrant and less beholden to the dominant social paradigm; whereas the jewelry store very much relies upon the dominant social paradigm--to wit, the retailing to women of diamonds which are otherwise plentiful rocks.
the very same gestalt facilitates the buying of Treasury paper rather than gold bullion.
Oil settles at nine-month high atop $105 a barrel -- Sherlock, 15:15:09 02/21/12 Tue
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Crude-oil futures on Tuesday ended at their highest level since May as traders cheered the Greek bailout deal and had fears of supply disruptions in the back of their minds after Iran cut off oil sales to the U.K. and France. Crude for March delivery CLH2 +3.49% advanced $2.60, or 2.5%, to end at $105.84 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the highest for a most-active contract since May 4.
PM stock Pee-yew update -- Sherlock (), 15:10:36 02/21/12 Tue
Not stinking, but again they have given up a good bit of their gains. Even though
physical price gains have held up nicely.
GLD +2.03% and GDX +2.84%
SLV +3.35% and SIL +only 1.99%. That could be better
GDXJ +3.38% That's more like it. Of course they were so oversold to begin with.
The truth is that the PM stocks are still cheaper than their January highs. So they really haven't gone anywhere. Plus, the jury is still out whether they can run up two days in a row without profit-taking.
Gold at highest in two weeks, gains 1.9%
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Gold futures on Tuesday ended at a two-week high, running with other commodities and U.S. stocks as traders were optimistic about the global economy after Greece and other European countries sealed a deal for a second bailout. Gold for April delivery GCJ2 +1.72% advanced $32.60, or 1.9%, to end at $1,758.50 an ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. That was gold's best settlement since Feb. 2.
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 15:13:10
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
@ Derren Brown -- RIP, 15:05:31 02/21/12 Tue
I can't believe anyone buys his garbage.
That last clip was more ridiculous than the first.
took profit on AAV -- Bullishonbronze, 14:33:02 02/21/12 Tue
prolly go higher, but they got a lot of debt. Maybe get back on if it gets cheaper. Will rely upon others of sector for now.
"Give me chastity and continence, but not yet." -- Bullishonbronze, 14:16:32 02/21/12 Tue Men go to admire the high mountains and the great flood of the seas and the wide-rolling rivers and the ring of Ocean and the movement of the stars; and they forget themselves. - St. Augustine (354 – 430 AD)
i never go to the track anyway -- johnny, 14:12:16 02/21/12 Tue
i bet online
ladbrookes fixed odds or the tote
and watch and record the race on my computer ..
miss the excitement but it aides concentration
on saturday i had the best day i ever had at the track winding off withh a winner at 33/1 which i set at 7/1.
i love this game
Winston.....I smell horseshit in that vid -- RIP, 12:54:16 02/21/12 Tue
Tellers never visually pay out anything...and they rely on a bar code scanner.
Similar to lottery tickets.
Once upon a time...before scanners...this trick may have worked.
But not now.
springboks amaze -- johnny, 12:06:46 02/21/12 Tue
4 years ago local guy planted olive tree seedlings. now he is in the olive business. sells oil 5 liters for 350 rand.also makes balsamic vineger dried olives etc.
my doctor makes wine and is introducing a guy who makes his own cider and delivers
Clean your screen.....and quit watching porn. -- Jasper, 12:02:06 02/21/12 Tue
Uh-oh, caught again. Seriously the actual photos are fine but all links with embeded pictures including charts are fuzzy. It has happened before and sometimes it appeared that changing the phish filter or smart screen filter helped but not this time. Running windows 7 and just loaded updates trying to fix the problem but no luck.
update 4 -- trotsky, 11:54:38 02/21/12 Tue
Spain's NPLs
Nonperforming loans at Spain's banks have just reached a new high at just below €140 billion. This is a significant chunk of money, but things are bound to get still worse, as the banks have swept countless problem loans under the rug in the past and Spain's economy is once again contracting. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14713
My computer is having troubles with fuzzy pictures -- Jasper, 11:51:55 02/21/12 Tue
The decoder ring/share link at the top of the page is fuzzy but the kitco spot price link is fine. Any ideas? tia
update 3 -- trotsky, 11:48:47 02/21/12 Tue
The Echo Bubble Problem
Bob Janjuah of Nomura has published a comprehensive summary of his current views in his latest 'Bob's World' missive. We have posted a few excerpts that strike us as especially interesting. Firstly, Janjuah's views on the machinations of central banks, which are busy trying to blow yet another bubble, thereby forcing fund managers to play the 'risk on' game against their better judgment. When this 'echo bubble' finally meets with its inevitable denouement, it may well bury the credibility of policymakers for a very long time. It is not enough that their previous bubble-blowing has brought misery to millions of innocent bystanders - they're doing it all over again, apparently expecting that this time, the result will miraculously manage to be different.
Secondly, Janjuah remarks on the ever more obvious democratic deficits the 'managing' of various emergencies has created. This dubious trend is extremely alarming, especially if the economic and financial troubles happen to get still worse down the road.
Also included, a few charts from our friends at Philoro showing US gold reserves, the monetary base, the money supply and public as well as total credit market debt relative to each other. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14692
@Computers regularly beat man in all board games , except one -- Smythe, 11:44:10 02/21/12 Tue
The Chinese game GO.
So why are human’s still master of this particular game? Because Go requires more than brute computational power, which is how Deep Blue and similar programs excel. The qualities that mark out the master Go player are the hallmarks of human intelligence: adaptation, intuition, and the ability to plan for the future. In order for a computer to win, a program has to be developed that can think more like a person."
WALIAC - Fire prone areas -- moonshot, 11:44:07 02/21/12 Tue
Yea, I can't wait! We've been having some horrendous fires out here over the last decade. It's uncanny the way these super fires always pop up sequentially in a nice slightly curved flight path only to join in a 100 mile fireline. There's no doubt in my mind the spooks are dropping flares.
And did you note in that drone article that appeared in the LA Times that these drones could be used as fire spotters and possibly help put fires out.
Awww...how feel good is that for a fire-prone area?
I suppose they could be used to kill mosquitos for the New Orleans area...and pigeons in New York...maybe gophers in Nebraska...and rattlesnakes in Arizona.
Pretty soon, the public will be demanding: 'Give us Drones! Give us Drones!'
update 2 -- trotsky, 10:16:54 02/21/12 Tue
From yesterday:
Chess, P*ker and Trading
An off-topic post we published on president's day: A few ruminations about the parallels between the skill sets employed in games like p*ker and chess and the art of trading.
Includes an analysis of an allegedly 'boring' chess game between Andras Adorjan and Valery Salov in Szirak in 1987 – as the analysis shows, Salov's play was based on a cunning strategic plan. When viewed through this lens, the 'boring game' is revealed as quite an exciting example of a truly unique style of play. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14647
new garden boy -- johnny, 10:08:00 02/21/12 Tue
from zim .. close to 7 feet tall and weight lifter .. will double as bodyguard if gurk plans to send puny limey hitmen to try to bust me up ..
update -- trotsky, 10:03:50 02/21/12 Tue
Greece 'Saved' Again
I'll let you go...but not just yet. The eurogroup has just announced that the Greek bailout ver. 2.0 is getting its placet. This leaves an extremely tight time table to get the necessary ratification from several parliaments and put the PSI deal to bed. For a while it looked as though so many obstacles had been thrown in the Greek government's way that it would have no choice but to default and exit the euro area. However, it now appears that this was mainly for show (directed at domestic voter audiences) and to ensure compliance by the Greek government with the wide-ranging demands of creditors.
The motives for keeping the sinking Greek ship afloat are easily discernible: a euro exit would render all cross-border private sector credit claims dubious and would leave the euro system central banks holding large claims against the Bank of Greece via the TARGET2 payments system hanging.
So the euro area remains a roach motel for now - which may of course change as soon as Greece has held elections.
Meanwhile, as an article written in 1858 reveals, the current situation is nothing new for Greece. It begins with the sentence : "Greece is the only known example of a country that has lived in bankruptcy since the day that it was born."
Apparently Greece has a well-worn tradition to uphold. http://www.acting-man.com/?p=14673
mercury vs. 1953 silver quarter -- zygoat, 08:57:11 -- Phiegze, 09:27:37 02/21/12 Tue
We used to do that BAREHANDED!!! To dimes back when I was a kid.
I guess that explains the brain damage ... LOL (not)
WE ARE BEING WATCHED -- Rack, 08:57:25 02/21/12 Tue
I suppose they slipped up but the nightly news this last week told of the gov back tracing a bomber using drones all the way back to the training ground. Any of you digging holes in your back yard? Imagine the storage capacity to watch us all.
you may have already seen this, -- zygoat, 08:44:41 02/21/12 Tue
if you have not had your amalgams removed yet, maybe this will get you motivated again..
epitome of pyrrhic "victories" greece for the banksters -- AZAU, 08:27:10 02/21/12 Tue
[ Edit | View ]
banksters running countries.....is not sustainable. -- AZAU, 08:13:06 02/21/12 Tue
(from Jeremy Warner. UK telegraph)
"....If you think such a handout intolerable for the rest of the eurozone, just think what the programme means for the Greeks. As part of the deal, the Greek government has committed to enshrine into its legal framework a provision to give priority to debt service payments above all other public expenditure, including its inclusion in the Greek Constitution as soon as possible. This is the sort of thing that prompts revolutions.
Already, polls published by local Greek media indicate that the centre parties (PASOK and ND, and in particular PASOK) are losing popular support hand over fist, so it matters not a jot that the two main coalition parties have signed up to full ongoing implementation after elections in April. In contrast, the parties further from the centre continue to gain popular support, and none of these have expressed support for the next programme...."
more obama stimulus for usa... -- AZAU, 08:03:45 02/21/12 Tue
Job Growth From Foreclosures
Fri, Feb 17, 2012 10:58 AM EST - CNBC 4:27 | 3,897 views
Morgan Stanley says as many as 1.8 milion real estate related jobs will be created as investors convert foreclosed homes to rentals. Insight with Oliver Chang, Morgan Stanley head of U.S. housing strategy/research.
@kip's picture of tranquility amidst threatening elements -- Smythe, 07:58:59 02/21/12 Tue
reminds me of the quote from the great solo sailor Bernard Moitessier :
"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present. In this limitless nation, this nation of wind, light, and peace, there is no other ruler besides the sea."
Let the "domino depression" begin! or, more comically, -- AZAU, 07:49:03 02/21/12 Tue
"Begin the "Beg-Gin"
The fat-boy has sung, and we are sunk.
__________________________________
World stock markets lower despite apparent resolution in Greek debt drama
Associated PressBy Pamela Sampson, AP Business Writer |
BANGKOK (AP) -- World stock markets were mostly lower Tuesday even as European leaders finally clinched a deal for a rescue package to prevent Greece from going belly up.
Benchmark oil hovered near $105 per barrel while the dollar fell against the euro but rose against the yen.
Shares in Europe opened lower, just hours after leaders reached an agreement on a financial rescue package for Greece, which is teetering on the brink of a major debt default...."
dominoes has never been a spectator sport........but, that may change -- AZAU, 07:43:41 02/21/12 Tue
with portugal and spain watching this first one.
We are seeing "live" the inability of banksters to
solve problems or do anything except f*ckup an economy.
Rock-solid proof that finance and banking should NOT be allowed to run a country or the EU.
______________________________________________________
Greek bondholders set for 74 pct loss: sources
ReutersReuters – 2 hours 0 minutes ago
LONDON/FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Banks are set to lose almost three-quarters of the value of their Greek government bonds under a deal agreed early on Tuesday, slightly more than they had planned, people familiar with the matter said.
Investors had previously expected to suffer a 70 percent hit, so BNP Paribas, insurer Allianz, hedge fund Greylock and other bondholders face an extra collective hit of up to 8 billion euros ($10.6 billion).
Gary Jenkins, analyst at Swordfish Research, said it was not a surprise to see the private sector squeezed more as politicians struggled to fill Greece's funding gap, as a disorderly default could have seen them left with nothing.
"Both parties knew that the ultimate recovery for private sector investors is potentially zero," Jenkins said.
AE Pritchard voices the suffering.....uk telegraph...can this be ignored -- AZAU, 07:36:46 02/21/12 Tue
without consequence? Are we seeing the true elitist-poor vivisection, followed by revolution? YES.
_______________________________________
Can a return to the drachma save Greece as unemployment soars?
Greece’s unemployment bomb has detonated. After a deceptive calm, the surge in job losses since last summer is shocking even for those who never believed that combined fiscal and monetary contraction could possibly lead to any result other than ruin.
Can a return to the drachma save Greece as unemployment soars?
The EU-ECB-IMF troika is imposing a further 150,000 public-sector job cuts in Greece over three years, without any offsetting Marshall Plan to rescue private industry. Photo: EPA
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
8:50PM GMT 19 Feb 2012
A variant of this lies in store for Portugal as its "internal devaluation" starts in earnest. The young Schumpeterians in charge of the Portuguese economy insist otherwise - cocksure that shock therapy will triumph without the cushion of debt relief and devaluation - but events have a habit of demolishing dreams.
In November alone 126,000 Greeks lost their jobs in a country of 11 million, equivalent to three and a half million Americans in a single month. The unemployment rate jumped from 18.2pc to 20.9pc.
This has not yet fed through into social breakdown. Greeks receive unemployment support for an average of thirty weeks, with a ceiling of €454 a month, according to Professor Manos Matsaganis from Athens University. Those with civil service tenure are placed on labour reserve for two years at half their basic pay, or a third of their actual pay.
Once these cushions are exhausted, Greeks are on their own. The monthly ratchet effect will then become painfully evident. It is why the Orthodox primate Hieronymos II warned in a letter to the prime minister that ever further doses of the same "deadly medicine" is becoming dangerous.
"The voices of the desperate, the voices of Greeks are being provocatively ignored. Fear is giving way to rage and the risk of a social explosion can no longer be ignored by those who give orders and those who execute their lethal recipes," he said.
Dimitra Noussi, who runs two homeless shelters and a soup kitchen for the City of Athens, said the crunch comes once people have been unemployed for five or six months and cannot pay the rent. Most fall back on the kinship network but there comes a point when critical mass overwhelms even this cultural backstop.
"I’m afraid we’re going to see an unbelievable increase in numbers. We’re suddenly starting to see people in their fifties coming in, and even families with children. They feel humiliated and desperate. I never thought I would see such a thing in my country."
It is against this backdrop that the EU-IMF Troika is (rightly) imposing a further 150,000 public sector job cuts over three years, without "wrongly" offsetting measures to prevent the collapse of private industry. The EU "Marshall Plan" promised last June never actually happened.
The Greek state is €7bn in arrears to companies; manufacturing contracted at 15.5pc in December; and a further 50,000 small firms are expected to go bankrupt by July. The Labour Institute thinks the economy will contract by another 7pc this year.
There is no chance that free enterprise can pick up the slack in the foreseeable future as the state is dismantled, even if premier Lucas Papademos reaches a debt deal with Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble and staves off default in March. Unemployment must inevitably punch higher.
One can see why the high priests of the EU Project wish to prevent elections taking place in April. The political centre is disintegrating, with the once triumphant PASOK party down to 9pc in the polls and New Democracy at 18pc -- each party reduced to a pro-Memorandum rump after the mass expulsion of dissidents, and each stunned almost senseless.
The 'Indignados' in Syntagma Square replay with mocking cruelty the immortal speech of PASOK leader George Papandreou, gushing that "there is enough money for everything." Voter sympathy is splintering to the hard Left and hard Right.
The latest best-seller is the Greek translation of Heinrich Winkler’s "Weimar 1918-1933: History of the First German Democracy", narrating how an indebted Germany pursued the same deflation policies under the Gold Standard as Greece is now pursuing under EMU - with the same results. The book culminates in the Reichstag elections of July 1932 when the Nazis and Communists between them won half the seats, and Weimar died.
Such parallels are always inexact. The radical parties of Syriza and the Democratic Left are not authoritarian. Yet their ascendancy surely threatens to shatter the existing order. "If we achieve a Left-dominated government, we will politely tell the Troika to leave the country, and we may need to discuss an orderly return to the Drachma," said Syriza MP Theodoros Dritsas, choosing his words carefully.
The news that Iceland has regained its investment grade rating - with unemployment down to 6pc - comes as a timely reminder that countries can indeed go it alone and live to tell the tale. Though of course, Iceland’s debts are in sovereign krona, not Mr Schäuble's euro, and Iceland exports a lot of aluminium.
Mr Papademos warns that default and EMU-exit would lead to "uncontrollable economic chaos". But is that not already the case? No Greek bank has been able to issue a letter of credit accepted anywhere in the world since November. Large Greek companies are having to relocate their headquarters to Bulgaria in order to conduct basic trade.
The "drachma risk" has already killed investment. Greece is suffering the anticipated consequences of EMU exit without the benefits, so it might as well lance the boil, impose capital controls, and create a new banking system (as Iceland did). Such catharsis might start to unlock €60bn of cash savings in gold, dollars, German euro notes (letter `X’, Greece `Y’), and such-like, sitting in the proverbial mattress. Foreign investors might start to nibble again, once the Greek exchange rate reflects reality at around seven Chinese yuan.
Angelos Tsakanakis from the think-tank IOVE is exasperated by such defeatist thinking, fearing serial defaults and legal mayhem. "If your kitchen is on fire and you jump out of a third floor window, you may be lucky. But isn’t it more sensible to try to extinguish the fire?" he said.
Mr Tsakanakis said Greece has clawed back 15pc in labour cost competitiveness since the crisis began, closing part of the intra-EMU gap. The EU task force - not to be confused with the Troika debt-collectors - is half way through a quiet revolution that should soon start to bring Greece down from 101 on the World Bank’s ease of doing business index (behind Yemen and Guatemala) to nearer OECD levels.
So let the process run its course, play for time, and hope for the best. "A lot could change over the next year. Germany may even leave the euro," he said.
Ultimately, the choice is not an economic calculus. For a country on the Balkan fringes of Europe - cheek by jowl with the Ottoman nemesis - the European anchor has existential significance, just as it does for Estonia on the borders of Putin’s Russia.
"We Greeks have a European soul and a Middle Eastern soul, and there has always been a tension between the two," said prof Matsaganis. "If we are forced out of the euro, it would be a decisive blow to our anchoring in the European Project. Greece may never again be part of Europe in my lifetime or that of my children."
Judging by the current mood in the AAA creditor core, the decision will be taken for them.
_________________
this portends a very ugly outcome, and is the product of a feudal government, not a modern, enlightened one.
oh, no! we have yet another "deal" in the EU to keep -- AZAU, 07:29:56 02/21/12 Tue
greece in thrall. What does it mean to lend 130 B Euros to a country who cannot pay it back in the foreseeable future?
Banksters are trying to keep a lid on it, but the kettle is near boiling already. Wonder how many more old and very young will starve because of this? Do the poor and unemployed just disappear? Do the homeless rot in the streets, or do they get angry? Are the hobnail boots made in germany?
Gold to $6,000 plus -- Caper, 04:50:58 02/21/12 Tue
The world's premier mining and mining investment website Gold to $6,000 plus - eventually - and silver growth even more explosive
@Greece -- Smythe, 03:19:23 02/21/12 Tue
Has no chance of paying down this new debt without growth. Even if they hit all their targets the debt will still be 120% of GDP in ten years time. They have no choice but eventual default.
DAILY [johnny] ABUSE WORKS BEST FOR PROGRAMMING -- mozel, 02:40:29 02/21/12 Tue
DEEPER INSIGHTS INTO THE ILLUMINATI FORMULA
by Fritz Springmeier & Cisco Wheeler http://www.whale.to/b/sp/springmeier.html
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 01:47:18
Edited 2 times. [ Edit | View ]
Well, crap, WIFFO has snapped all the Greek bonds ... -- mozel (), 01:29:25 02/21/12 Tue
up ... hard to believe a guy holding a rooster with a pig at his feet has out manoeuvred everybody here but RIP ... the bondster ...
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 01:30:23
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
Anybody who can believe a Jew could be found on a roof in Poland -- mozel, 01:23:25 02/21/12 Tue
who wasn't a thief there to steal will believe there was a fiddle, too ...
And if Mozel doesn't declare these actual Jews to be learned from -- MichaelH (), 23:30:34 02/20/12 Mon
and considered your guru - and this his favorite song of all...
You don't even wanna know what's gonna become of him. You don't even wanna know if such would become the fate of your very worst enemy. Some things are best left untouched.
Mozel, these kind evolved persons have taken time out of thier lives to provide you, Monzel, with personal instructions in this apparently mixed up world. Now what you gonna do but listen to these Jews? With the life of your soul at stake?
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 00:44:07
Edited 5 times. [ Edit | View ]
Isn't collecting the Gateway for hoarding ??? -- mozel (), 23:10:00 02/20/12 Mon
Intervention ??? Who is kidding whom here ???
Last edited by author: Tue February 21, 2012 01:12:44
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
Who attacks the truth tellers. Monsanto and the CIA for starters -- b_w, -- last-call, 23:07:12 02/20/12 Mon
Thanks b_w for posting that video. I will burn off a few copies and pass them out to the few people I know that still care about matters like this.
I'm not into the Mayan 2012 'end of the world scenario,' but the way things are rapidly moving along, it will only be by the grace of God if any of us are still around next year....
the next month or two should prove the doomsters -- mackcheed, 23:06:47 02/20/12 Mon
right. Every 25 $ raise in gasoline spoils the new wirlders plans of papering overing this nonsense. NOBODY IS GOING TO LIKE IT MUCH.
Its almost a certainity that Iran is going to get bombed.
When a person states into their mind and outloud, their stated goal(s) -- MichaelH, 23:00:11 02/20/12 Mon
Very clearly into their mind... Then, by wonder it seems to come to pass imeediately or too soon to count the seconds.
'The Guest House' - Rumi. -- Glyndwr, 22:59:24 02/20/12 Mon
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they're a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honourably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.
Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
WIFFO - As a matter of fact, I am -- morbius, 22:57:26 02/20/12 Mon
The Police State has gotten a new lease on life while they pursue their nefarious activities financed by Fiat money. Don't worry, TCUYA won't hurt a bit, and even if you DO worry, Big Pharma has an attitude adjuster ready for you.
Trouble with me was, I was inputing much money and couldn't stand but to be rid of it all. And I did.
But I nick my mickles and dimes now, in a better situ, so.. I mind my p's and q's... for a touch or so.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 22:45:47
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
morbius how would you like a disorderly default? -- WIFFO (), 22:36:42 02/20/12 Mon
and triggering of all those nasty CFD's right throughout Europe. And a global stockmarket crash!!
Of course it is good news.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 22:47:22
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
disorderly default fears dismissed. The deal is done. -- WIFFO, 22:32:42 02/20/12 Mon
however with all this austerity how will economic growth occur? Will the Greeks be able to get debt to GDP down to 120% by 2020?
How good is exercize? I taught my youngest brother first by cross country -- MichaelH, 22:28:57 02/20/12 Mon
and he, after two prolonged addictions to cocaine and then pharmacuetical pain relievers, kept up his exercise and stills looks like a pro and is the top seller in his nationwide company. He squandered 100's of K and I squankered 100's of K on the distraction of casino gamblimg - only because I was so unhappy and that was relief. Both of us over 1/2 million lost on fruitlessness.
Both put through hard lessons - and even so transcendent was my unhappiness, I won't even think anything but working off karma. When I say addicted I mean to the very point of choosing death.
How good is exercize? I taught my youngest brother first by cross country -- MichaelH, 21:46:06 02/20/12 Mon
and he, after two prolonged addictions to cocaine and then pharmacuetical pain relievers, kept up his exercise and stills looks like a pro and is the top seller in his nationwide company. He squandered 100's of K and I squankered 100's of K on the distraction of casino gamblimg - only because I was so unhappy and that was relief. Both of us over 1/2 million lost on fruitlessness.
Both put through hard lessons - and even so transcendent was my unhappiness, I won't even think anything but working off karma.
what if furriners ran your country (oops, they already do) -- AZAU, 21:25:24 02/20/12 Mon
EU ministers work through the night on Greek bailout, but issues remain over spending controls
Associated PressBy Gabriele Steinhauser, AP Business Writers | Associated Press – 3 hours ago
BRUSSELS (AP) -- Eurozone governments worked into the night on Monday, hoping to agree on a long-awaited rescue package for Greece that would save it from a potentially calamitous bankruptcy next month, but several key points of division remained, senior officials said.
Finance ministers meeting in Brussels Monday were still wrangling over how to reduce Greece's debt load further and impose even tighter control over the country's spending, and negotiations were expected to stretch late into the night. Rich countries like Germany and the Netherlands and the International Monetary Fund want to be sure that Athens can eventually survive without aid.
But after months of delays, time for Greece is running out. The country needs to secure the euro130 billion ($170 billion) bailout so it can move ahead with a related euro100 billion ($130 billion) debt relief deal with private investors. That deal needs to be in place quickly if Athens is to avoid a disorderly default on a bond repayment on March 20.
"I am of the opinion that today we have to deliver, because we don't have any more time," Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg who also chairs the meetings of eurozone finance ministers, said as he arrived in Brussels.
An uncontrolled bankruptcy would likely force Greece to leave the 17-country currency union and return to its old currency, the drachma, further shaking its already beaten economy and creating uncertainty across Europe.
Heading into the meeting earlier Monday, ministers were optimistic that a deal could be reached.
"We now have all of the elements to achieve an agreement," said French Finance Minister Francois Baroin. "Greece knows what it has to do, and we'll watch over it continually. We also know what we have to do." ...
How good is exercize? I taught my youngest brother first by cross country -- MichaelH, 21:22:31 02/20/12 Mon
and he, after two prolonged addictions to cocaine and then pharmacuetical pain relievers, kept up his exercise and stills looks like a pro and is the top seller in his nationwide company. He squandered 100's of K and I squankered 100's of K on the distraction of casino gamblimg - only because I was so unhappy and that was relief. Both of us over 1/2 million lost on fruitlessness.
-- -- Winston, 21:00:19 02/20/12 Mon
Apple is correcting now, and is anticipated to decline further to test the red fork next at $480 or a little lower. The final parabolic top is targeted at $578 in early March. with chart. http://urlshort.me/3i5
Yep, no doubt about it! Following Government diet recommendations -- MichaelH, 20:41:52 02/20/12 Mon
for past few decades, Americans have dramatically increased in obesity and declined in health. Obama and Bush are all you need to know about the falseness and no respectibility of governance. It isn't that Americans deserve these guys - these negative beings are fruitlessly trying to continue a long ago pattern to impose themselves upon us.
Time is on our side here, though it is actually short.
Winston posted on a guy... forgot name... I knew from the past -- MichaelH (), 20:22:31 02/20/12 Mon
I didn't know what he was talking about, but I have a direct bullish hit on super cycle wave 3 from 2017 year... Though I think top is later in march.
Ah yes, Humble1.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 20:35:21
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
gol dang it... increased sprint from lazy 1 to 3 today -- MichaelH (), 20:17:19 02/20/12 Mon
3rd was the fastest and felt the best. Maybe 4-6 is better? for a lazy guy.. sure picking up the weight amounts and sprints... lovin it too.
Exercize fixes everything - by experience... the university says stem cells released into blood stream. But there comes a time in life when ... too old. Not at all for me yet.
As a previous long distance runner 42 years ago, I can say with assurance, anarobic short stress is the way to exercize. Easy quick and most effective. Stress to the max, but very short term and done quick and not waste time.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 20:52:19
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
@ opinions -- RIP, 19:49:29 02/20/12 Mon
Does March 7 or thereabouts ring a bell?
Michelle pays for her vacations -- RIP, 18:14:32 02/20/12 Mon
....by lecturing kids on exercising...thus saving the health care system billions of dollars.
I'm Michelle Obama
And I approve this message....even if it's RIP
American Per-Capita Sugar Consumption Hits 100 Pounds Per Year -- b_w, 17:45:54 02/20/12 Mon
Beet sugar is now GMO. If you must eat the poison sugar make sure it is cane sugar.
GMO sugar is going to make a BIG difference in the death rate; no matter what the lying CDC says.
a hoader in a 1,000 sq/ft house would not be a hoarder -- zygoat -- b_w, 17:28:17 02/20/12 Mon
One of the first jokes I got as a kid was when my dad said, during WWII and rationing, we had to buy up a lot of sugar "Before the hoarders got to it." Of course they had to explain to me what a hoarder was.
American Per-Capita Sugar Consumption Hits 100 Pounds Per Year -- b_w, 17:23:55 02/20/12 Mon
WoW that means a lot of poor souls are eating 200/year. How about one pound a day for some. Can't go more than a few years at that consumption.
doo gooders -- mercury, 16:47:06 02/20/12 Mon
yah, I’ve never been one for NA/AA etc.
Had been invited to two ‘interventions’ for other folks; neither worked (for long)
However, do have a close relative that was a hoarder. She convinced me it is a behavioral issue that can be turned, but someone needs to bring it up first…
@ there's no money -- RIP, 16:23:59 02/20/12 Mon
The cronies are watching the show
Pretending that assets will grow
They know they're in trouble
Without a new bubble
That's why they keep printing-up doe
David Coffin died -- ROAN, 16:10:48 02/20/12 Mon
That makes two this past week. David Coffin was a great analyst and stock picker for the little juniors. I knew him. I will miss him.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 16:25:24
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
-- -- Winston, 15:26:37 02/20/12 Mon
The former chief of staff to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Saturday an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear facilities is "imminent."
(February 20, 2012) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey8xInnOimw
Skinee....yeah -- RIP (), 15:13:40 02/20/12 Mon
It drives those knuckleheads crazy that 20% of casi*o profits goes to a business that actually creates jobs....horse racing.
BTW...I'd like to invite Mironoslav to a morning of stall mucking.
After a few weeks...he might lose those man boobs.
IF he can stand up.
Last edited by author: Mon February 20, 2012 15:21:01
Edited 1 time. [ Edit | View ]
Rip -- Skinee, 14:59:37 02/20/12 Mon
I was reading your socialit dickhead in Toronto wants to stop the subsidies on horse racing.
Those Toronto commies are all cut from the same block of shit.
What if the miners are taking product home in their pant cuffs ??? -- mozel, 14:29:37 02/20/12 Mon
No wonder they can't make a buck for suckers, I mean, shareholders ...
Hoarding -- mercury, 14:10:26 02/20/12 Mon
I have been putting together a collection/stock of antique paper, books, ephemera, etc. (Most recently an collating a collection of about 100 Sunday full size comic strips from 1900-1945 from a larger collection of perhaps 25-30k pieces of paper).
And then this week I had to help a very close family clean out the home of my dear friend who died unexpectedly. He had become a hoarder. The gent sorted all the recyclables, only to keep hundreds of boxed of glass, paper, newspaper stacked to the ceiling in his house. Entering his house, and sorting through his ‘stuff’ broke their heart.
The family made the decision to just throw out most of what he owned, rather than go through everything/organize/re-sale. Given the exact situation, I completely understood. The collector in me just turned off as I had to throw away several hundred pounds of paper, magazines and books - some of it collectible.
That hoarder sickness is a tough one to view up close and personal. The good news is that hoarding can be cured, or at least reversed (I have a family member that beat it back).
Most the used book stores in SF Bay are closing down -- mercury, 14:09:16 02/20/12 Mon
whilst amidst the severe economic downturn in Reno, two more used bookstores (one quite impressive) have opened up.
Perhaps part of the disgorging resulting from severe economic downsizing?
Picked up a Great Book -- mercury, 14:07:58 02/20/12 Mon
Ghosts of the Glory Trail - Intimate Glimpse into the past and present of 275 Western Ghosttowns. Nell Murbarger (Signed inside cover :Cordially, Nell Murbarger) First Edition). Desert Magazine Press, 1956. 291 pages.
275 Ghost Towns!
There are only a couple dozen mining towns in the lower US 48 alive now! (and that is a generous figure).
I actually have two original photographs of Nell's. She was the photographer of Stanley Paher, the seminal ghosttown book publisher.
These photos of Nell's look like they were taken while producing the book. I would love to increase my collection of these photographic out-takes, would provide even greater context and provenance...
![[Most Recent USD from www.kitco.com]](http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif)
Bullishonbronze, 21:28:57 02/22/12 Wed 
SVBL -- 